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Praland said: chickenonthepan said: So can you suggest one way to convey the coldness of Illya without the bath? She could have killed someone for the lulz Indeed, little girls slaughtering people would be far more tasteful than little girls taking a bath. |
kingcity20 said: Oh for the love of -_- nvm gotta love MAL |
MiniSiets said: Praland said: She could have killed someone for the lulz Indeed, little girls slaughtering people would be far more tasteful than little girls taking a bath. And it will makes more sense too. |
 |
chickenonthepan said: Qans said: Is this a serious question? Yes, totally serious. The bath didn't convey the coldness of Ilya any more than her walking around fully clothed would have, or being in a dark, decrepit room with those two servants in an unknown location with the same dialogue. There are literally bundreds of ways to convey her but they chose the fan service route. If baths were the only way to have depicted that scene or any scene with "coldness" then it'd be a sad day for the anime industry |
| Man, all this over a simple bath scene that didn't even show much of anything. Fan service or not, what does it matter? |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
insan3priest said: Man, all this over a simple bath scene that didn't even show much of anything. Fan service or not, what does it matter? It's matters because she it's short. |
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Qans said: The bath didn't convey the coldness of Ilya any more than her walking around fully clothed would have, or being in a dark, decrepit room with those two servants in an unknown location with the same dialogue. There are literally bundreds of ways to convey her but they chose the fan service route. If baths were the only way to have depicted that scene or any scene with "coldness" then it'd be a sad day for the anime industry Taking a bath is when people feel the most warm. But Illya's bath give no warm impression to it. So it highlights her coldness. I see no impact on your suggested scene, btw. |
insan3priest said: Man, all this over a simple bath scene that didn't even show much of anything. Fan service or not, what does it matter? People are trying to say: It's fanservice, so it's definitely bad. lmao. |
insan3priest said: Man, all this over a simple bath scene that didn't even show much of anything. Fan service or not, what does it matter? You're right, it doesn't really matter all that much. Infact, it was like 15 seconds. The only reason I'm arguing is because people are arguing that it is not fan-service when it clearly is. |
| Nop. |
| It's interesting to contrast the Saber of this series with the Saber of Zero. Circumstance truly does shed a different light on a person, and it's so far been very rewarding to watch her responses to a more comfortable and compassionate master. I can see how some might complain that watching F/Z first may have spoiled large swaths of the plot of F/s n, but having seen it has so far done nothing but lend to story and characters of the latter. Without the context of the prequel, a lot of the more subtle character cues and interactions would be lost -- or at the very east indecipherable outside of rewatching the material after it's ended. Rin and Archer though, still best characters; as much as I like Saber and Shirou, the highlights are still the former two. They could make the whole show about those two fighting crime doing a buddy cop shtick and it would be the best thing ever. |
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chickenonthepan said: insan3priest said: Man, all this over a simple bath scene that didn't even show much of anything. Fan service or not, what does it matter? People are trying to say: It's fanservice, so it's definitely bad. lmao. I didnt say that. My first post actually was "besides the unnecessary sexualizing of a 10 year old pretty good episode!" Or something alone those lines. But i guess it doesnt matter as ill still be watching the series regardless, im just trying not to be a stan and see no flaws at all in the show, and watch it from an objective viewpoint, unlike most of the fans of this show |
BullSmit said: insan3priest said: Man, all this over a simple bath scene that didn't even show much of anything. Fan service or not, what does it matter? You're right, it doesn't really matter all that much. Infact, it was like 15 seconds. The only reason I'm arguing is because people are arguing that it is not fan-service when it clearly is. Some people don't see it as fanservice because they are served nothing form it. They just see it as a normal scene. The question should be: Is it BAD? |
Qans said: chickenonthepan said: People are trying to say: It's fanservice, so it's definitely bad. lmao. I didnt say that. My first post actually was "besides the unnecessary sexualizing of a 10 year old pretty good episode! But she isn't 10 years old.... |
|
Praland said: Qans said: I didnt say that. My first post actually was "besides the unnecessary sexualizing of a 10 year old pretty good episode! But she isn't 10 years old.... Your right. She only looks and has the mental capacity of one. Much better lol |
Qans said: Your right. She only looks and has the mental capacity of one. Much better lol  I read this? It's actualy disturbing that you think that Illya acts like a 10 years old girl. |
PralandNov 1, 2014 6:40 PM
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Qans said: chickenonthepan said: People are trying to say: It's fanservice, so it's definitely bad. lmao. I didnt say that. My first post actually was "besides the unnecessary sexualizing of a 10 year old pretty good episode!" Or something alone those lines. But i guess it doesnt matter as ill still be watching the series regardless, im just trying not to be a stan and see no flaws at all in the show, and watch it from an objective viewpoint, unlike most of the fans of this show That scene does extremely well in highlighting Illya's coldness and at the same time, it serves some people. So why not using it? I don't think this is a flaw btw. They shot down 2 birds with one arrow. That should be an achievement. |
BullSmit said: insan3priest said: Man, all this over a simple bath scene that didn't even show much of anything. Fan service or not, what does it matter? You're right, it doesn't really matter all that much. Infact, it was like 15 seconds. The only reason I'm arguing is because people are arguing that it is not fan-service when it clearly is. I say it's pointless to argue over either way. People think it's fanservice, people think it's not fanservice. What's the point in arguing about it? It's not an interesting discussion, there isn't anything fascinating about it. It's a short scene of a girl taking a bath, it isn't anything disturbing or something that requires brain bleach or whatever. Though, to add my opinion on the matter, I don't view this as having sexualized Illya at all. She's taking a bath, but nothing is shown. It's like saying seeing Goku in the first Dragon Ball episode naked is a form of fan service. Because, I can tell you that you will see a hell of a lot more there. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
chickenonthepan said: Some people don't see it as fanservice because they are served nothing form it. They just see it as a normal scene. The question should be: Is it BAD? To answer your question as to how I see it. I don't think it was something that was necessarily needed to portray what they wanted to, but I don't feel it wasn't "bad". There is such a thing as fan-service that isn't blatant and garbage. This would qualify as such (Not blantant and garbage, to be clear), at least for myself. Opinions will of course be different from user-to-user. Episode was still good. Given the more plot and development pace this time, people will tend to comment on stuff like this because it stands out moreso than other stuff, as did I. insan3priest said: I say it's pointless to argue over either way. People think it's fanservice, people think it's not fanservice. What's the point in arguing about it? It's not an interesting discussion, there isn't anything fascinating about it. It's a short scene of a girl taking a bath, it isn't anything disturbing or something that requires brain bleach or whatever. Indeed, which is why after my last post here regarding it, I'm done arguing. It's something that caught more peoples attention this episode because of the plot and development, rather than fighting, as I said previously. Mod Edit: Merged double post. Please edit your previous post |
TyrelNov 1, 2014 9:13 PM
| Nop. |
| Well, then, why not talk about the plot development and so on? That isn't worth talking about for some reason? |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
| It's still weird to see those few amounts of 1/5 and 2/5 people give every week What is their point? Just being against the hype? Why? I'll bet everything I got most of those people don't even try to give it a chance or even watch the episodes. It's just hate for the sake of hate -.- |
insan3priest said: Well, then, why not talk about the plot development and so on? That isn't worth talking about for some reason? I did comment on other stuff in my first post. I raved about the OST, which I truly love to no ends, but I also criticized the Illya scene. I like to add a bit of both. I didn't feel the need to comment on the overall plot and character/story development because a majority of it is similar to that of the older series, just much more clearer, and much more appealing (And less "Saber!", "Shirou!", name shouting). I also said how I very much dislike Fuji-nee. |
| Nop. |
Veldin461 said: It's still weird to see those few amounts of 1/5 and 2/5 people give every week What is their point? Just being against the hype? Why? I'll bet everything I got most of those people don't even try to give it a chance or even watch the episodes. It's just hate for the sake of hate -.- This was a blatantly slow and boring episode, not too much to be enjoyed here so i can see why they rate it a 1-3. I enjoyed it but i feel more so because I read the VN, for new watchers I bet it was incredibly slow episode. In a few episodes the ratings will be better i bet |
Qans said: This was a blatantly slow and boring episode, not too much to be enjoyed here so i can see why they rate it a 1-3. I enjoyed it but i feel more so because I read the VN, for new watchers I bet it was incredibly slow For someone who has never once read the VN, or even seen it. I thought the episode wasn't bad at all in terms of pace. It was slow, yes, but I still found myself watching it without taking my eyes off of it. I guess amazing visuals and a beautiful OST does that to me, regardless of the episode pace. |
| Nop. |
| First, the number of Typemoon haters is not small. Second, some people don't see slice of life scenes as plots. They want ACTION. |
chickenonthepan said: First, the number of Typemoon haters is not small. Second, some people don't see slice of life scenes as plots. They want ACTION. Third, some people might just not like it. Opinions 'n' all. Fixed.~ Or more like, Added.~ |
Qans said: This was a blatantly slow and boring episode, not too much to be enjoyed here so i can see why they rate it a 1-3. I enjoyed it but i feel more so because I read the VN, for new watchers I bet it was incredibly slow episode. In a few episodes the ratings will be better i bet I get your point, but after the last episode that is quite unlikely =/ Every anime has their slow episodes, the story has to be told and explained, but this is not the only episode getting those scores It's just weird that every single anime has those unfair scores. Animes like this don't deserve it at all Why do people watch an anime if from the start they are only thinking "this is garbage" or "lol, this is so hyped must be shit" and don't even give it a chance? |
Veldin461Nov 1, 2014 7:06 PM
BeatzMe said: chickenonthepan said: First, the number of Typemoon haters is not small. Second, some people don't see slice of life scenes as plots. They want ACTION. Third, some people might just not like it. Opinions 'n' all. Fixed.~ Or more like, Added.~ The second thing counts as opinion. |
chickenonthepan said: BeatzMe said: Fixed.~ Or more like, Added.~ The second thing counts as opinion. But you're ridiculing and degrading their opinions with that one. (see 'They want ACTION') |
BeatzMe said: chickenonthepan said: The second thing counts as opinion. But you're ridiculing and degrading their opinions with that one. (see 'They want ACTION') If they just want mindless action, they might as well go watch Rambo... |
BullSmit said: chickenonthepan said: Some people don't see it as fanservice because they are served nothing form it. They just see it as a normal scene. The question should be: Is it BAD? To answer your question as to how I see it. I don't think it was something that was necessarily needed to portray what they wanted to, but I don't feel it wasn't "bad". There is such a thing as fan-service that isn't blatant and garbage. This would qualify as such (Not blantant and garbage, to be clear), at least for myself. Opinions will of course be different from user-to-user. Episode was still good. Given the more plot and development pace this time, people will tend to comment on stuff like this because it is the most obvious thing to complain about, as did I. Fix'd I guess you could call it fan service, but it felt like that one scene in FHA with Illya and Shirou sleeping together in that it doesn't feel sexual at all. And I'm an insane yuri-fan, I can find sexualisation in the most mundane of things Case in point: Spoilered for size. |
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FlameseeK said: BeatzMe said: But you're ridiculing and degrading their opinions with that one. (see 'They want ACTION') If they just want mindless action, they might as well go watch Rambo... I think you misunderstood something there. |
| I don't think it is unreasonable to expect more action in some cases; at the end of the day with this being a holy grail war, and one of the genres falling under action, I think it is fair to expect a certain degree of action no matter what, especially if scenes that could be taking its place don't feel like they enrich the story that much, though I do think the time was well-spent in this particular case and I wasn't bothered by the lack of action. |
kingcity20 said: Oh for the love of -_- nvm gotta love MAL |
BeatzMe said: FlameseeK said: If they just want mindless action, they might as well go watch Rambo... I think you misunderstood something there. The misunderstanding is if those opinions have actually any fundaments to it or not An opinion and hating for the sake of hate are two different things |
WrongPriest said: I guess you could call it fan service, but it felt like that one scene in FHA with Illya and Shirou sleeping together in that it doesn't feel sexual at all. To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if ufotable did have fanservice in mind with the Illya scene given the audience demographics, but even so, the character herself was not presented in any way suggestively other than her lack of clothing. The only reason anyone is viewing this as obvious fanservice is not because of any actual context presented by the anime but because we know the demographics behind the show's target audience. Removing any knowledge of the market this show is based in which could influence our biases about the authors' intentions, the scene itself was presented very neutrally. So if it is a fanservice scene, it is a very, very mild one at best, and certainly nothing worth bitching about for pages when there are plenty more valid criticisms someone could give about the show. If we really want to get social justice warrior, I find it ridiculous to take offense to a little girl being shown naked while ignoring a little girl being depicted sociopathic, cold, cruel, and willing to kill someone without an ounce of remorse. When it comes to sexualization versus violence in media, violence always gets a free pass. We can depict any level of cruelty exhibited by a character without a second thought, but the moment they might be placed in an even mildly sexual situation, everyone gets their panties in a bunch. Just stop it, please. |
kingcity20 said: Oh for the love of -_- nvm gotta love MAL |
MiniSiets said: If we really want to get social justice warrior, I find it ridiculous to take offense to a little girl being shown naked while ignoring a little girl being depicted sociopathic, cold, cruel, and willing to kill someone without an ounce of remorse. When it comes to sexualization versus violence in media, violence always gets a free pass. We can depict any level of cruelty exhibited by a character without a second thought, but the moment they might be placed in an even mildly sexual situation, everyone gets their panties in a bunch. Just stop it, please. "We live in a world where we have to hide to make love, while violence is practiced in broad daylight." Nudity is more shocking than cruelty, betrayal, blood, etc. |
Veldin461 said: BeatzMe said: The misunderstanding is if those opinions have actually any fundaments to it or not An opinion and hating for the sake of hate are two different things Well, that's why I said some, you know. Some people in here seem to easily lump everyone who just doesn't like it for whatever reason together with the real haters. |
MiniSiets said: I don't think it is unreasonable to expect more action in some cases; at the end of the day with this being a holy grail war, and one of the genres falling under action, I think it is fair to expect a certain degree of action no matter what A work isn't bound by its genre name or terminology used in it, so no, it's not really fair to expect that of any work tagged "action" or that uses the word "war". That's not to say it's bad to like works with constant action, just that assuming it's what you'll get at all times in all works just because action is a tag is incredibly silly. If someone goes into a work assuming something based on loosely defined genres and tags, that's their problem, not a problem with the work specifically. |
| The series so far is only slightly less action heavy than F/Z. |
FlameseeK said: MiniSiets said: If we really want to get social justice warrior, I find it ridiculous to take offense to a little girl being shown naked while ignoring a little girl being depicted sociopathic, cold, cruel, and willing to kill someone without an ounce of remorse. When it comes to sexualization versus violence in media, violence always gets a free pass. We can depict any level of cruelty exhibited by a character without a second thought, but the moment they might be placed in an even mildly sexual situation, everyone gets their panties in a bunch. Just stop it, please. "We live in a world where we have to hide to make love, while violence is practiced in broad daylight." Nudity is more shocking than cruelty, betrayal, blood, etc. You can't compare those two things.. There is a good reason why she is cruel and psychopathic. There was not a good reason why shes nude |
Qans said: FlameseeK said: "We live in a world where we have to hide to make love, while violence is practiced in broad daylight." Nudity is more shocking than cruelty, betrayal, blood, etc. You can't compare those two things.. There is a good reason why she is cruel and psychopathic. There was not a good reason why shes nude Excuse me for being mature enough to handle it. EDIT: inb4 "she should have taken a bath with her clothes on" |
FlamepriesTNov 1, 2014 7:40 PM
FortyPercent said: MiniSiets said: I don't think it is unreasonable to expect more action in some cases; at the end of the day with this being a holy grail war, and one of the genres falling under action, I think it is fair to expect a certain degree of action no matter what A work isn't bound by its genre name or terminology used in it, so no, it's not really fair to expect that of any work tagged "action" or that uses the word "war". That's not to say it's bad to like works with constant action, just that assuming it's what you'll get at all times in all works just because action is a tag is incredibly silly. If someone goes into a work assuming something based on loosely defined genres and tags, that's their problem, not a problem with the work specifically. I didn't say that it should be expected at all times though. Just that if you're going to call it an action anime, then I should expect to see some action in it. I guess an anime is certainly welcome to not adhere to such a guideline, but then they're kinda misleading the audience and setting them up for disappointment because some came in expecting something that they never got. |
kingcity20 said: Oh for the love of -_- nvm gotta love MAL |
| back to action next episode, lets see if caster can fight awesomely |
FlameseeK said: Qans said: You can't compare those two things.. There is a good reason why she is cruel and psychopathic. There was not a good reason why shes nude Excuse me for being mature enough to handle it. EDIT: inb4 "she should have taken a bath with her clothes on" There should have been no bath period. And if it's immature to not want to see naked children depicted as sexual fan service then u can call me immature baby. Anyways we talked bout this enough in this thread and frankly im getting bored of this convo |
| Guys I'm gonna go be sexual... sorry I mean take a bath. I always get those mixed up because they are the same thing. |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
Ketuekigami said: Guys I'm gonna go be sexual... sorry I mean take a bath. I always get those mixed up because they are the same thing. fuck you i almost choked on my water |
| And I mean that in the most sexually painful way possible. |
| You drink water? Soft. My preferred beverage is the blood of my victims. It should be yours too. Your victims, not mine though. |
Qans said: FlameseeK said: "We live in a world where we have to hide to make love, while violence is practiced in broad daylight." Nudity is more shocking than cruelty, betrayal, blood, etc. You can't compare those two things.. There is a good reason why she is cruel and psychopathic. There was not a good reason why shes nude Uh, because she wanted to take a bath? To which reasoning are you referring to? In the context of the story, Illya getting nude is justified if she wants to take a bath, similar to her cruelty being "justified" because her childhood was ruined. If you're referring to the authors' reasoning for depicting it from an entertainment perspective, it could be just as easily argued that entertainment value derived from Illya's displays of cruelty is just as fucked up as enjoying her nakedness. |
kingcity20 said: Oh for the love of -_- nvm gotta love MAL |
fst said: My preferred beverage is the blood of my victims. Mine's usually root beer. |
| And I mean that in the most sexually painful way possible. |
| I dunno how I feel about some 'areas' of foreshadowing, but it isn't that big a deal I suppose. God I love Mitsuzuri, it's awesome the effort and love they're giving her here. I did feel that their dynamic felt a bit 'off' as they didn't quite come across as the normal buddies they are, but I know it was for the sake of that ptsd trigger characterization which was damn brilliant. I'm glad everyone else saw how especially Shikified she was here, I think they definitely made more of a conscious effort to do so here than normal. Starmac said: Totally agree with you. I mean if asked I tell people to either watch this first or of course play the VN, but this episode further proved that ufo is throwing a lot of bones to F/Z first watchers. Yeah, the VN touched on some of these instances anyway(like the Saber bit), but it was definitely emphasized in a manner that made it pretty fulfilling to see for F/Z watchers. I liked that scene a lot. Same with the Illya scene, even though that one was more of a replacement scene for lack of Fate than a F/Z nod as Fai has said.It's interesting to contrast the Saber of this series with the Saber of Zero. Circumstance truly does shed a different light on a person, and it's so far been very rewarding to watch her responses to a more comfortable and compassionate master. I can see how some might complain that watching F/Z first may have spoiled large swaths of the plot of F/s n, but having seen it has so far done nothing but lend to story and characters of the latter. Without the context of the prequel, a lot of the more subtle character cues and interactions would be lost -- or at the very east indecipherable outside of rewatching the material after it's ended. |
 |
| Mitsuzuri has been getting a lot of focus despite that I can't even recall her from the VN. Is she a more prevalent character in Hollow ataraxia or something? I never got around to reading it. |
kingcity20 said: Oh for the love of -_- nvm gotta love MAL |
MiniSiets said: Mitsuzuri has been getting a lot of focus despite that I can't even recall her from the VN. Is she a more prevalent character in Hollow ataraxia or something? I never got around to reading it. Not really. I think they just want to draw the link to Shiki in KnK. And it's good that viewers care for her. Her incidence will leave heavier impact. |
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