Fate/Grand Order: Zettai Majuu Sensen Babylonia Episode 3 Discussion

LeloTheUnamused said:


It doesn't.
Gilgamesh is not corrupted.
The anime doesn't show him as corrupted and he only says he's incarnated, meanwhile the novel (you know, the actual source material that the anime takes from, cutting some content in the process) outright states that he cannot be corrupted by the grail due to his massive ego.
He just laughs at it and the Grail spits him out.

Being incarnated makes his human side "resonate" more with the people of the era tho (as previously stated in this thread, with quotes, links and various proof all around), and that's why he is a bit more of an asshole in stay nigth compared to Zero. He is, after all, basically the lynchpin between gods and humans, and the (somewhat) "guardian" of humans. He reflects a bit humanity as a whole and he's influenced by it in certain scenarios, especially if incarnated.
But that's it.

Gilgamesh is never corrupted in Fate, and I find it funny that you presented the Zero anime as proof, because, even if it cut the explanation of him not being corrupted, it never shows the opposite (him being corrupted) to be true either. In fact, even after being incarnated in the last episode of Zero, he's still pretty much the same.
That should be proof that he's not corrupted, if anything else.

LeloTheUnamused said:



I'm with you here, believe me.
Not the spoiler part, I actually like him (both in Fate and in his real life myth), but it's really disheartening to see a discussion derail this much.
Although it was to be expected for the first episodes of Babylonia: there is still relatively little to talk about for now. I hope future episodes discussions won't end up like this one.

Play2X said:


You are not wrong per sé, but in this context it is somewhat different. Yes, Gilgamesh can't be corrupted in the way Berserker and Saber are in the Heavens Feel route. That much is true.
However, he does change. May I remind you of what happened to those poor souls, who survived the big fire with Shirou as the 'sole' survivor? That one's on Gilgamesh, and not something you would expect of a person, who is 1.) considered chaotic good 2.) spared people like Waver just 10 years prior in F/Z. Also, we also see what Gilgamesh in his uncorrupted form is like in Fate/Hollow Ataraxia.
And I can't even begin to understand how exactly humanity has become that much worse in 10 years to warrant such a change. Don't get me wrong, there are more than enough assholes in the world, without question, but I think that this is something that holds true for every age of humanity, and wouldn't change much. Also to consider, don't forget that Gilgamesh himself says he didn't change, but how exactly would he know? Did he ask WebMD or what? The simple answer is that we can't say a 100% whether he changed or not, but his change of character would suggest this. I mean sure, Gilgamesh will always be the biggest cunt on the planet which is why we love him, but the ruthlessness of Fate/Stay Nights version is only a thing there, while all others don't have that part.

ssjokg said:


The orphan's were Kirei's work.Gilgamesh didnt give a fuck.He even says that he doesnt need them.
This chaotic good guy pushed another Master to kill his Master because he was boring.He enjoyed watching a cripple choking the life out of the woman he loved while sipping wine, tortured a woman for refusing him.This chaotic good guy would have killed Waver if Waver had acted even slightly disrespectful towards him or Rider.
And if he is corrupted why did he praise Shirou inside UBW?And if we count his changes in UBW anime, why did he treat Sella and Liz with respect(for loyalty towards Ilya and for being "made from clay" like Enkidu) and why does he admit defeat and in HF try to ?
Gilgamesh in FHA is the same as in FSN(and FZ) but he is affected by the youth potion.Kid Gil treats his FSN character as the eventual character he will become.Do you really think that Zero Gil would play around with Shirou in his adult form?

Humanity is just as shitty as it was in Zero.Gilgamesh even tells Tokiomi how bad the modern world is.The difference is that 1)he will be around only for 2 weeks in Zero while in SN he can be around till he gets sick of it and 2) the grail will do this job without him lifting a finger and he has to let Kirei reach his goal.

You know who else besides Gil says this?Kinoko Nasu.

LeloTheUnamused said:
Yes, Gilgamesh does change.
Because he hates the modern era, he gets incarnated and he had to stay that way for then years.

That is not due to the corruption of the Grail, it's the fact he's incarnated and lives in the world for ten years.
We have been telling that for half of this thread ("he doesn't get corrupted, he's far more of an asshole because he gets incarnated").

And being "chaotic good" means "for the extreme greater good he would do whatever".
His goal in FSN was to let the world burn. Why? Because only the worthy and needed people would have survived. He even tells Shinji in the anime that the problem he sees with the modern world is that it's full of unnecessary people.
Returning humanity to a small number of worthy individuals is the "greater good" that he perceive as right, and that makes it count as "chaotic good".
Don't let the world "good" in that alignment confuse you, he is not "good" in the sense you may think.

Also, as explained by ssjokg, in FHA it's the fact he's young to change his mindset. As a child, he's lovable and likes people, and hates the person he becomes as an adult (before Enkidu, at least). That was even stated in episode 2 of Babylonia (when they said that, as a child, he was good and caring but growing up in his adolescence he became the well-known tyrant).

Pretty much anything else has been touched by ssjokg so I don't need to repeat stuff.

ssjokg said:
Woah. I actually feel bad for getting baited so hard by this guy.

@LeloTheUnamused

Plz dont continue this.

Raggadish said:
Finally a Fate installation that show som promise! Keep my fingers crossed that it continues to be this good and don´t mess things up.

LeloTheUnamused said:


What would you like to see and what would be "messing things up" to you?
Honest question, I'm just curious.

Raggadish said:


I would like to see what seem to be promised, Mash and her Master take on their task while the world gets proparly explored and the characters intruduced getting a proper exploration and development. And of course great action.

Mess it up would be to make the plot overly complicated and fragmented and the addition of to many charcaters while the alreday interesting and introduced characters gets to little screen time and development (as in Aporcypha).

Worth mentioning is that I have no experience with source material at this point.