Seinen manga VS. Western Novels

Berserk is a fantasy classic no matter the medium. If this was told in an english novel format by a master story writer equivalent to how Miura was a master mangaka, it would be LOTR levels of popular. Well..spoilers incoming...........


idk how a mass western audience would have handle troll gang bangs but thats another discussion

@DayRivia I highly doubt it. First of all, that hypothetical piece of literature would most likely have been left unfinished. Secondly, there's the general preference of people for fantasy literature over comics. Comparing high fantasy of LotR caliber to a hypothetical dark fantasy series sounds unfair to the both of these things.

The Berserk franchise has one light novel that was released years ago, while Miura-sensei was still alive. A light novel, but still a novel. It's called "Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight" (by Kentarou Miura and Makoto Fukami). It's nothing spectacular, but it is a fun read. And yet, even though it follows most, if not all, of the core themes of the "Berserk" story known from the manga quite well, and presents them effectively in a text-only format with occasional stunning illustrations drawn by Kentarou Miura himself to enhance the experience (and to adhere to the light novel format), many people seem to really dislike it. "Too violent", "too much sex", "too dark", "too edgy", and so on.

You'd think that a more or less devoted "Berserk" fan would be used to such elements, huh? I can imagine the same type of fans raging when someone on X (Twitter) mentions that they dislike all those dark elements in "Berserk". Pure clownery, if you ask me. 🤡 Both sides can't admit that they dislike dark fantasy elements in a dark fantasy series, so they choose to duel with anyone nearby with virtue signaling.

Anyway, I think that hypothetical "Berserk" novel, and only novel (so no manga or anything else released before it), would have ended up in the same category as stories that are primarily dedicated to people who prefer to read about gore over other things.

Berserk work really well in the manga format. Let's leave it like that mostly and admire its good-looking and detailed art style and the story told through it. ;p

Everything this person says is accurate. Characters can often match western fantasy novels in many ways. But several aspects of a fantasy novel cannot be completely matched in manga format. Berserk is extremely good, but I really enjoy reading through something like the cosmere and all of the “wait does this mean this?” Or “is this person who they say they are” and especially playing wheres waldo with hoid. This got off topic but just know that if you ever decide to read western fantasy, that the Cosmere is a must.

A lot of manga on the other hand often feels painfully linear and predictable with developments. Arcs in manga are often more “how will they solve this” rather than “what the actual hell is going to happen” while you are frantically trying to piece together previous plot points to discover something bigger. Overall the sense of unknowns are something that I feel like is missing from 99% of manga because in fantasy manga in general it is just soooo obvious what will happen (Berserk excluded).

I love both medias so much though and all reading is good reading (excluding smut)

I like how you have a burner account that doesnt even list what you have read likely just to make it harder for people to rebuttal you.

Shounen is the most popular by far because it provides what the audience wants, and that isnt exceptional writing. Other genres, such as what you probably like (based on your anime preference) aren’t as popular because it isn’t what most people want from manga. The people looking for more depth in their fiction, especially fantasy (what the poster was interested in) read western fantasys. It’s simply facts that a majority of manga are closer to YA than for adults, even most seinen. The majority of grown adults in both the west and in japan are NOT reading manga when they want to read something objectively well written

Most manga’s are closer to harry potter level and not many people will argue that harry potter is better written than Game of Thrones

@Chaos90003

What you wrote does not refute what I said in any kind of way. And of course you don't even know shounen is not a genre but a demographic, what a surprise.

@JoeChip you didnt leave much to refute. Sorry but most use shounen to refer to a genre, despite what the actual translation means. A genre is simply a way to classify things in a way to describe what it is, and shounen 100% meets that requirement, being a very broad genre. Funniest part is how in your original reply you use in the context of it being a genre. The hypocrisy is crazy.

Its crazy how some people live to instigate on social media rather than actually have a discussion. I’m still willing to discuss why you believe fantasy manga has better writing than western fantasy, as that is what this thread is about. Not a whole lot of non-shounen fantasy series so I’m curious how you plan to argue this. Its frequently mocked how many fantasy series are just isekai or power farming slop. Maybe your clearly offended initial response is from you misunderstanding my initial post? But we are discussing fantasy, and from your very mysterious MAL profile, it doesn’t seem like you are a big fantasy enjoyer.

I assume you are advocating for seinen having better writing. Very few gain large popularity because shounen is the more popular demographic and what the majority of manga readers want. American readers move to novels when/if they want what seinen is trying to offer. Again there are plenty of exceptions and there are several amazing seinen. BUT OVERALL, there are not many highly praised seinen and I can tell from a glance that when a seinen has high popularity, that it will be amazing, just because of how few reach a larger audience. But we are talking overall, and very few manga readers indulge in seinen outside of what you will find on the top 100 on MAL list

Please don’t bother respond if you don’t want to discuss the topic at hand.

What a coping response, which is completely wrong. A genre describes a category of literature, music, or other forms of art or entertainment, based on some set of stylistic criteria, as in literary genres, film genres, music genres, comics genres, etc. Whereas shounen, as a demographic, only points out the age group the work is aimed at, which is teenagers or YA in this case, it has nothing to do with the actual content of the work.

A work's demographic could change depending on the magazine it's published, V,nland Saga started publishing as shounen then later switched to seinen for example, but the same can't be applied to a genre, a romance story doesn't become an action story in the middle of story.

Your whole argument depends on popularity, as in only popular works should be considered when talking about the quality of genre, which is fantasy in this case, and therefore you only mention shounen manga, this is called logical fallacy. Just becasue the poularity of seinen manga are lower compared to shounen does not mean they can't be considered reperesantive of the fantasy genre.

@JoeChip I’m going to further ignore the “is it a genre or demographic argument” because it is pointless and many people disagree. While what you say may be true, what matters more to me is how it is commonly used here in the west. as a tag that along with the genres, gives me a good idea of what can expect. People look at the genres to see if it was they are looking for, and whether is it shounen, shoujo, or seinen is an aspect that people want to know when picking up a manga. Because it gives a glimpse of what they can expext

I think popularity is the most important argument personally. While there are plenty of hidden gems, in both western fantasy and manga. The things that people actually pick up and read is important to consider. When trying to answer if western fantasy or manga has better writing. My short answer is well having read plenty of the most popular of each. The popular western series are better than the popular manga’s, in my opinion. And my long answer is people from all places can write equally compelling fiction and there exists several masterpieces that will unfortunately never see the surface and there is no right answer on which form of media is better and reading on its own is entirely subjective and nobody can tell someone what to like.
The thing is, seinen fantasy hardly exists. There are not very many. And by fantasy, I mean fantasy-fantasy. Not fantasy as in simply not realistic, therefore fantasy. When comparing western fantasy to manga as a whole, using the U.S voting system as an example. Seinen fantasy has 3 electoral votes like Alaska, and shounen fantasy is California.


Edit: accidentally pressed submit

If someone tells me they want to read fantasy, and they like manga, I’ll say, read berserk and claymore and kingdom, if that is up you ally. Then go read lord of the rings. Game of thrones, wheel of time, stormlight archive, elderlings series, kingkiller chronicles, mistborn, malazan, witcher etc

There is just a larger quantity of amazing western fantasy that when we are comparing as a whole, I think its better. While one can argue Berserk is better than all of those, if that is what they believe, it is definitely valid. But then what? Berserk is just one, relatively short (compared to western fantasy) manga


Like im confused what you are even arguing. Are u just trying to find holes in my argument? I’m no professional debater and was just trying to share my opinion. Or do believe that seinen is objectively better than western fantasy? If so would you like to provide an argument? You can find holes in my opinion all day because I don’t tend to argue with people but you havnt even shared an opinion, just looking for logial errors in mine.

God you are such a loser, dont even wanna discuss the topic, just ignore everything then find corny errors in an opinion argument. Grow up

the witcher is pretty good dark fantasy novel, but do not watch netflix adaptation this do not exist

I like how you have a burner account that doesnt even list what you have read likely just to make it harder for people to rebuttal you.

Shounen is the most popular by far because it provides what the audience wants, and that isnt exceptional writing. Other genres, such as what you probably like (based on your anime preference) aren’t as popular because it isn’t what most people want from manga. The people looking for more depth in their fiction, especially fantasy (what the poster was interested in) read western fantasys. It’s simply facts that a majority of manga are closer to YA than for adults, even most seinen. The majority of grown adults in both the west and in japan are NOT reading manga when they want to read something objectively well written

Most manga’s are closer to harry potter level and not many people will argue that harry potter is better written than Game of Thrones

@JoeChip I’m going to further ignore the “is it a genre or demographic argument” because it is pointless and many people disagree. While what you say may be true, what matters more to me is how it is commonly used here in the west. as a tag that along with the genres, gives me a good idea of what can expect. People look at the genres to see if it was they are looking for, and whether is it shounen, shoujo, or seinen is an aspect that people want to know when picking up a manga. Because it gives a glimpse of what they can expext

I think popularity is the most important argument personally. While there are plenty of hidden gems, in both western fantasy and manga. The things that people actually pick up and read is important to consider. When trying to answer if western fantasy or manga has better writing. My short answer is well having read plenty of the most popular of each. The popular western series are better than the popular manga’s, in my opinion. And my long answer is people from all places can write equally compelling fiction and there exists several masterpieces that will unfortunately never see the surface and there is no right answer on which form of media is better and reading on its own is entirely subjective and nobody can tell someone what to like.
The thing is, seinen fantasy hardly exists. There are not very many. And by fantasy, I mean fantasy-fantasy. Not fantasy as in simply not realistic, therefore fantasy. When comparing western fantasy to manga as a whole, using the U.S voting system as an example. Seinen fantasy has 3 electoral votes like Alaska, and shounen fantasy is California.


Edit: accidentally pressed submit

If someone tells me they want to read fantasy, and they like manga, I’ll say, read berserk and claymore and kingdom, if that is up you ally. Then go read lord of the rings. Game of thrones, wheel of time, stormlight archive, elderlings series, kingkiller chronicles, mistborn, malazan, witcher etc

There is just a larger quantity of amazing western fantasy that when we are comparing as a whole, I think its better. While one can argue Berserk is better than all of those, if that is what they believe, it is definitely valid. But then what? Berserk is just one, relatively short (compared to western fantasy) manga


Like im confused what you are even arguing. Are u just trying to find holes in my argument? I’m no professional debater and was just trying to share my opinion. Or do believe that seinen is objectively better than western fantasy? If so would you like to provide an argument? You can find holes in my opinion all day because I don’t tend to argue with people but you havnt even shared an opinion, just looking for logial errors in mine.

Berserk is a fantasy classic no matter the medium. If this was told in an english novel format by a master story writer equivalent to how Miura was a master mangaka, it would be LOTR levels of popular. Well..spoilers incoming...........


idk how a mass western audience would have handle troll gang bangs but thats another discussion