New
Dec 27, 2023 8:28 PM
#1
| Minor spoilers ahead, but not much regarding the major manga-inclusive events, most of my points are about general worldbuilding which is relevant both for manga and anime. First of all, wtf is with this world's royalty? In a world where one person can wipe out an entire army, no way a person who isn't powerful on his own can hold absolute authority for any period of time. All it takes is one AVERAGE mage to assassinate a normie king, even if he's protected by guards, plus it's not like he's going to be surrounded by them non-stop. Let's remember the scene where the hero party disrespected a king and are threatened to be executed—the king and the guards absolutely wouldn't have the chance against the party, and the ones to be executed would be them if Frieren and Co resisted in any capacity. If the king's guards were strong enough to protect the king from their party, then Demon Lord wouldn't be a problem to begin with, just send an army and kill him. So we have a rather simple logic, Frieren and Co >>> Demon Lord >>> Seven Sages>>>> the entire kingdom, let alone just the king. A person who's a walking nuclear weapon doesn't have a reason to respect the authority of people armed with junk. Especially if that person is many times older. Frieren meekly abiding by the rules of humans (like showing respect to nobles or allowing herself to be sent to prison or to the mines) is like an adult who plays along with 5-year-olds even when their games go as far as making the adult play the role of a slave and kiss their little feet. Though to be fair, the difference in power between a 5-year-old and an adult is actually much LESS than between Frieren and some guards enforcing the law in a random city. It's as if the author put zero thoughts into the world initially, just using a "generic fantasy world from a JRPG" as a template, and only after the manga got some popularity started to actually put some actual effort (like with demons and mage association), but it was too late already. He probably planned a much shorter story initially. Second, while the author created a really interested power system for magic users, there's literally none for the physical combatants, they just hit hard and survive being hit back, lol. So it's not surprising that Stark barely played any role for the last two thirds of the manga and even when he did his fights were underwhelming. Third—was anyone else greatly annoyed at the part where Sein saved the day? The notion that there's such a thing as a curse that can't be countered (unless with legendary magic which is one of a kind) and resisted no matter how powerful you are (unless you're a priest, then it's easy-peasy) and a random monster can use it in the boonies out of nowhere (not even a Sage of Destruction) challenges my suspension of disbelief way too much, but then we add the fact that it's the only such encounter in the entire manga and that it coincidentally happened JUST RIGHT when the party had someone to counter this ability (even though they only joined briefly) just makes it ridiculous. And also messes up the power levels—in theory, that random monster was powerful enough to wipe out the entire magic association, how much sense does it make? Priests also don't have a proper magic system, just like fighters, which makes it worse. And then afterwards, Frieren also doesn't give much shit when Sein leaves the party, leaving them absolutely helpless if they encounter another similar enemy. Basically, the rest of their journey they survived just because they were lucky to not encounter a non-counterable random monster with a curse. I like the manga overall (though the anime is overrated for some mysterious reason, if you check ratings by episodes here or on imdb they, on average, are lower than those of, let's say, JJK S2), but stuff like that just makes me annoyed and requires too much additional mental effort to suspend my disbelief further than normally required. Do you think I'm being too nitpicky, or are there some more problems that I missed? What annoyed you the most in the story? |
MyOwnGodDec 27, 2023 8:34 PM
Dec 28, 2023 12:29 AM
#2
MyOwnGod said: if you check ratings by episodes here or on imdb they, on average, are lower than those of, let's say, JJK S2) I will not comment about what you wrote above because i have not read the manga ( i will after anime ends) but don't judge episode rating based on mal and imdb because in japan ep 12 got 4.0% something rating which was 5th highest of the week. Even JJk s2 and one piece were behind it and ep 15 got similar rating. so don't judge based on this site because this site doesn't determine anime popularity. https://letsotaku.com/news/frierens-episode-12-outranked-doraemon-earning-a-40-rating_a145 |
-Sleek-Dec 28, 2023 12:33 AM
Dec 28, 2023 12:38 AM
#3
Reply to -Sleek-
MyOwnGod said:
if you check ratings by episodes here or on imdb they, on average, are lower than those of, let's say, JJK S2)
if you check ratings by episodes here or on imdb they, on average, are lower than those of, let's say, JJK S2)
I will not comment about what you wrote above because i have not read the manga ( i will after anime ends) but don't judge episode rating based on mal and imdb because in japan ep 12 got 4.0% something rating which was 5th highest of the week. Even JJk s2 and one piece were behind it and ep 15 got similar rating. so don't judge based on this site because this site doesn't determine anime popularity.
https://letsotaku.com/news/frierens-episode-12-outranked-doraemon-earning-a-40-rating_a145
-Sleek- said: Even JJk s2 and one piece were behind it and ep 15 got similar rating. so don't judge based on this site because this site doesn't determine anime popularity. Where I said anything about popularity? SAO is one of the most popular anime, but its ratings aren't high. Site ratings and popularity are different things. |
MyOwnGodDec 28, 2023 12:44 AM
Dec 28, 2023 12:50 AM
#4
| Frieren simply doesn't care how she spends her time and is naturally tolerant when it comes to anything but demons. She isn't remotely bothered by the notion of spending a couple years in prison or in mines, and possibly does it because she is annoyed at Fern or because she thinks Stark and Fern can grow if they rescue her somehow. The point Stark doesn't do anything is 100% true!!! He just has random old men teach him offscreen in various places and plays with kids whenever he arrives at a village, which is a fun trait but he hasn't done any cool 1v1s since the fight with Linie. Give him a magic weapon or a chapter dedicated to his thoughts about moving during combat please Sein saving the day is fine IMO he needs one cool moment before getting kicked from the story. The monster is said to be a mutated version of another monster right? Frieren could have been comfortable leaving Sein because those are so rare. Also... they could probably flee if the situation is completely unmanageable on their end. In fact, I'm pretty sure Frieren tries to quickly leave the village where the flower is hunting until Sein explains how he can help, and planned to avoid fighting Macht until Denken invites her with a plan |
Cetus9999Dec 28, 2023 12:55 AM
Dec 28, 2023 12:50 AM
#5
Reply to MyOwnGod
-Sleek- said:
Even JJk s2 and one piece were behind it and ep 15 got similar rating. so don't judge based on this site because this site doesn't determine anime popularity.
Even JJk s2 and one piece were behind it and ep 15 got similar rating. so don't judge based on this site because this site doesn't determine anime popularity.
Where I said anything about popularity? SAO is one of the most popular anime, but its ratings aren't high. Site ratings and popularity are different things.
| @MyOwnGod ok let me correct myself don't judge the show based on this site rating as anything can be overrated and underrated on this site. as i mentioned both episodes rating and popularity are quite good in Japan so you can judge on that basis if you think that the show is overrated or not. |
Dec 28, 2023 12:58 AM
#6
| For your first point, you said an average mage could take down an army. I disagree. How many average mages have we seen over the course of this series? Due to the nature of the manga mostly being slow, slice of life bits, we actually rarely get any proper action scenes and arcs going over the power system in this world. The only thing that comes close is the mage exam they took to get certified later on. And as for that, I wouldn't even say the mages that partook in the exam were average. Most were very much above average and they couldn't even get through the entire exam. People I would say classify as average mages might be those two girls Frieren was partnered with in the very first exam. Can you honestly say that you can see either or even both of them take on an army? I understand why you might be misled when the only real mages we see are Frieren and Fern. But you have to understand that they are very much the exception and not the rule. It's like seeing only Saitama in OPM and thinking everyone is as strong as him, simply because you haven't seen any other characters. As for the part about Frieren being able to take down whole armies, your point is valid but remember one thing : doing something like that is not in her nature. In the Aura arc, at the very start she was wrongly imprisoned and yet did nothing to free herself when, as you rightly said she could have very well just leveled the town. She understands that there will be repercussions that : (a) she doesn't want to handle and (b) might not be able to handle. Look at Qual. In his time, he developed an absolutely unstoppable one shot kill magic. How long did it take humanity to counter it? You may say, a whopping 80 years but you'd be missing the point. The point being that they did counter it. It took time but it was countered. Even the almighty demon king that terrorized humanity for so long was ultimately done in by a simple party of four. This is where the tenacity of humans shines. Even if Frieren decided for some reason, to go on a huge human killing spree, it may take time yes, but humanity would eventually stop her. She's nigh immortal but not invincible. At the end of the day, tl/Dr, Frieren and most of the mages shown in the manga are not average. Don't judge every other mage based on their capabilities. Also, Frieren is too much of a lazy bones to go on a human killing spree. Honestly I can't imagine what the heck they could do to piss her off bad enough that she might do so. |
| Life is like a tube of toothpaste |
Dec 28, 2023 3:15 AM
#7
MyOwnGod said: Minor spoilers ahead, but not much regarding the major manga-inclusive events, most of my points are about general worldbuilding which is relevant both for manga and anime. First of all, wtf is with this world's royalty? In a world where one person can wipe out an entire army, no way a person who isn't powerful on his own can hold absolute authority for any period of time. All it takes is one AVERAGE mage to assassinate a normie king, even if he's protected by guards, plus it's not like he's going to be surrounded by them non-stop. Let's remember the scene where the hero party disrespected a king and are threatened to be executed—the king and the guards absolutely wouldn't have the chance against the party, and the ones to be executed would be them if Frieren and Co resisted in any capacity. If the king's guards were strong enough to protect the king from their party, then Demon Lord wouldn't be a problem to begin with, just send an army and kill him. So we have a rather simple logic, Frieren and Co >>> Demon Lord >>> Seven Sages>>>> the entire kingdom, let alone just the king. A person who's a walking nuclear weapon doesn't have a reason to respect the authority of people armed with junk. Especially if that person is many times older. Frieren meekly abiding by the rules of humans (like showing respect to nobles or allowing herself to be sent to prison or to the mines) is like an adult who plays along with 5-year-olds even when their games go as far as making the adult play the role of a slave and kiss their little feet. Though to be fair, the difference in power between a 5-year-old and an adult is actually much LESS than between Frieren and some guards enforcing the law in a random city. It's as if the author put zero thoughts into the world initially, just using a "generic fantasy world from a JRPG" as a template, and only after the manga got some popularity started to actually put some actual effort (like with demons and mage association), but it was too late already. He probably planned a much shorter story initially. Second, while the author created a really interested power system for magic users, there's literally none for the physical combatants, they just hit hard and survive being hit back, lol. So it's not surprising that Stark barely played any role for the last two thirds of the manga and even when he did his fights were underwhelming. Third—was anyone else greatly annoyed at the part where Sein saved the day? The notion that there's such a thing as a curse that can't be countered (unless with legendary magic which is one of a kind) and resisted no matter how powerful you are (unless you're a priest, then it's easy-peasy) and a random monster can use it in the boonies out of nowhere (not even a Sage of Destruction) challenges my suspension of disbelief way too much, but then we add the fact that it's the only such encounter in the entire manga and that it coincidentally happened JUST RIGHT when the party had someone to counter this ability (even though they only joined briefly) just makes it ridiculous. And also messes up the power levels—in theory, that random monster was powerful enough to wipe out the entire magic association, how much sense does it make? Priests also don't have a proper magic system, just like fighters, which makes it worse. And then afterwards, Frieren also doesn't give much shit when Sein leaves the party, leaving them absolutely helpless if they encounter another similar enemy. Basically, the rest of their journey they survived just because they were lucky to not encounter a non-counterable random monster with a curse. I like the manga overall (though the anime is overrated for some mysterious reason, if you check ratings by episodes here or on imdb they, on average, are lower than those of, let's say, JJK S2), but stuff like that just makes me annoyed and requires too much additional mental effort to suspend my disbelief further than normally required. Do you think I'm being too nitpicky, or are there some more problems that I missed? What annoyed you the most in the story? Regarding Sein saving the day. It is explained that priests use the goddess magic which Freiren and other mages cannot use. To be a priest you have to be born with some kind of affinity to the goddess magic. Freiren as powerful as she is does not have power against curses. |
Dec 28, 2023 5:03 AM
#8
Reply to Ricedumpismyname
For your first point, you said an average mage could take down an army. I disagree. How many average mages have we seen over the course of this series?
Due to the nature of the manga mostly being slow, slice of life bits, we actually rarely get any proper action scenes and arcs going over the power system in this world. The only thing that comes close is the mage exam they took to get certified later on. And as for that, I wouldn't even say the mages that partook in the exam were average.
Most were very much above average and they couldn't even get through the entire exam.
People I would say classify as average mages might be those two girls Frieren was partnered with in the very first exam. Can you honestly say that you can see either or even both of them take on an army?
I understand why you might be misled when the only real mages we see are Frieren and Fern. But you have to understand that they are very much the exception and not the rule.
It's like seeing only Saitama in OPM and thinking everyone is as strong as him, simply because you haven't seen any other characters.
As for the part about Frieren being able to take down whole armies, your point is valid but remember one thing : doing something like that is not in her nature.
In the Aura arc, at the very start she was wrongly imprisoned and yet did nothing to free herself when, as you rightly said she could have very well just leveled the town. She understands that there will be repercussions that : (a) she doesn't want to handle and
(b) might not be able to handle.
Look at Qual. In his time, he developed an absolutely unstoppable one shot kill magic. How long did it take humanity to counter it?
You may say, a whopping 80 years but you'd be missing the point.
The point being that they did counter it. It took time but it was countered.
Even the almighty demon king that terrorized humanity for so long was ultimately done in by a simple party of four.
This is where the tenacity of humans shines. Even if Frieren decided for some reason, to go on a huge human killing spree, it may take time yes, but humanity would eventually stop her.
She's nigh immortal but not invincible.
At the end of the day, tl/Dr, Frieren and most of the mages shown in the manga are not average. Don't judge every other mage based on their capabilities.
Also, Frieren is too much of a lazy bones to go on a human killing spree. Honestly I can't imagine what the heck they could do to piss her off bad enough that she might do so.
Due to the nature of the manga mostly being slow, slice of life bits, we actually rarely get any proper action scenes and arcs going over the power system in this world. The only thing that comes close is the mage exam they took to get certified later on. And as for that, I wouldn't even say the mages that partook in the exam were average.
Most were very much above average and they couldn't even get through the entire exam.
People I would say classify as average mages might be those two girls Frieren was partnered with in the very first exam. Can you honestly say that you can see either or even both of them take on an army?
I understand why you might be misled when the only real mages we see are Frieren and Fern. But you have to understand that they are very much the exception and not the rule.
It's like seeing only Saitama in OPM and thinking everyone is as strong as him, simply because you haven't seen any other characters.
As for the part about Frieren being able to take down whole armies, your point is valid but remember one thing : doing something like that is not in her nature.
In the Aura arc, at the very start she was wrongly imprisoned and yet did nothing to free herself when, as you rightly said she could have very well just leveled the town. She understands that there will be repercussions that : (a) she doesn't want to handle and
(b) might not be able to handle.
Look at Qual. In his time, he developed an absolutely unstoppable one shot kill magic. How long did it take humanity to counter it?
You may say, a whopping 80 years but you'd be missing the point.
The point being that they did counter it. It took time but it was countered.
Even the almighty demon king that terrorized humanity for so long was ultimately done in by a simple party of four.
This is where the tenacity of humans shines. Even if Frieren decided for some reason, to go on a huge human killing spree, it may take time yes, but humanity would eventually stop her.
She's nigh immortal but not invincible.
At the end of the day, tl/Dr, Frieren and most of the mages shown in the manga are not average. Don't judge every other mage based on their capabilities.
Also, Frieren is too much of a lazy bones to go on a human killing spree. Honestly I can't imagine what the heck they could do to piss her off bad enough that she might do so.
| Pls, read my message again. I didn't say that an average mage can take down an army, but that they can assassinate a normie king, which they totally can. And not only a mage, a warrior on Stark's level can easily do the same, guards wouldn't be fast enough to kill him. In the first place, in the real world kings existed because of the power they held—the power to command people using money, and in the real world someone's fighting force depends on the equipment (which depends on money) and numbers. In a world where a single person can hold personal power equal to dozens if not thousands of others those powerful people will be the rulers, a normal person will just have no chance to gain any sort of significant authority. And I specifically pointed out the situation with Frieren and their hero party. From what we saw, every person who took the exam—and don't forget, they held this type of exam every few years, so there are hundreds of mages at a similar level—could take down a king even while he's guarded. And it also doesn't matter if it requires a more powerful mage to take down a ruler of a country—any ruler will always have powerful and rich enemies, so they can as well hire one of the strongest mages or warriors... or be one themselves. And let's think for a moment—why would a really powerful mage or warrior like to work as a damn royal guard? They could find a dozen other ways to earn money without being a servant. In the first place, most of the real-world nobles got their titles for their achievements in wars, and in a world with a big power discrepancy between people most if not all of them will be superhuman warriors and mages. Realistically, from what we saw in the story, the Mage Association should rule the world because they have power that can't be resisted by normal humans. If a first grade mage becomes evil, who will stop him? The police and the government? No, only other mages or powerful warriors. It seems you also missed the point where that party of four that took down a being that terrorized the entire world was treated like shit by a king who could've been easily killed by them, and that they didn't even get any rewards for what they did. Did you see the houses where Himmel and Heiter lived? They were fucking broke, lmao. Even though for such an achievement they should've been given the highest noble title possible (because yes, noble titles are given for achievements that benefit the country, nobles don't just randomly and independently appear like in most isekai stories, noble is just a title given to people for something they or their ancestors did). Btw, it seems you forgot that the only reason why humans countered Qual's magic in 80 years is that Frieren helped them. Take away Frieren, Flamme and Serie from Frieren's world and humanity would've been long since destroyed. And let's be honest, if Frieren was against humanity from the start (i.e. didn't suppress her mana and developed magic focused on slaying humans) she would've had a much higher chance at slaying humanity than demons did (after all Flamme's barriers don't work on her). |
Dec 28, 2023 5:06 AM
#9
Reply to Lightsrevenge
MyOwnGod said:
Minor spoilers ahead, but not much regarding the major manga-inclusive events, most of my points are about general worldbuilding which is relevant both for manga and anime.
First of all, wtf is with this world's royalty? In a world where one person can wipe out an entire army, no way a person who isn't powerful on his own can hold absolute authority for any period of time. All it takes is one AVERAGE mage to assassinate a normie king, even if he's protected by guards, plus it's not like he's going to be surrounded by them non-stop. Let's remember the scene where the hero party disrespected a king and are threatened to be executed—the king and the guards absolutely wouldn't have the chance against the party, and the ones to be executed would be them if Frieren and Co resisted in any capacity. If the king's guards were strong enough to protect the king from their party, then Demon Lord wouldn't be a problem to begin with, just send an army and kill him. So we have a rather simple logic, Frieren and Co >>> Demon Lord >>> Seven Sages>>>> the entire kingdom, let alone just the king. A person who's a walking nuclear weapon doesn't have a reason to respect the authority of people armed with junk. Especially if that person is many times older. Frieren meekly abiding by the rules of humans (like showing respect to nobles or allowing herself to be sent to prison or to the mines) is like an adult who plays along with 5-year-olds even when their games go as far as making the adult play the role of a slave and kiss their little feet. Though to be fair, the difference in power between a 5-year-old and an adult is actually much LESS than between Frieren and some guards enforcing the law in a random city. It's as if the author put zero thoughts into the world initially, just using a "generic fantasy world from a JRPG" as a template, and only after the manga got some popularity started to actually put some actual effort (like with demons and mage association), but it was too late already. He probably planned a much shorter story initially.
Second, while the author created a really interested power system for magic users, there's literally none for the physical combatants, they just hit hard and survive being hit back, lol. So it's not surprising that Stark barely played any role for the last two thirds of the manga and even when he did his fights were underwhelming.
Third—was anyone else greatly annoyed at the part where Sein saved the day? The notion that there's such a thing as a curse that can't be countered (unless with legendary magic which is one of a kind) and resisted no matter how powerful you are (unless you're a priest, then it's easy-peasy) and a random monster can use it in the boonies out of nowhere (not even a Sage of Destruction) challenges my suspension of disbelief way too much, but then we add the fact that it's the only such encounter in the entire manga and that it coincidentally happened JUST RIGHT when the party had someone to counter this ability (even though they only joined briefly) just makes it ridiculous. And also messes up the power levels—in theory, that random monster was powerful enough to wipe out the entire magic association, how much sense does it make? Priests also don't have a proper magic system, just like fighters, which makes it worse. And then afterwards, Frieren also doesn't give much shit when Sein leaves the party, leaving them absolutely helpless if they encounter another similar enemy. Basically, the rest of their journey they survived just because they were lucky to not encounter a non-counterable random monster with a curse.
I like the manga overall (though the anime is overrated for some mysterious reason, if you check ratings by episodes here or on imdb they, on average, are lower than those of, let's say, JJK S2), but stuff like that just makes me annoyed and requires too much additional mental effort to suspend my disbelief further than normally required. Do you think I'm being too nitpicky, or are there some more problems that I missed? What annoyed you the most in the story?
Minor spoilers ahead, but not much regarding the major manga-inclusive events, most of my points are about general worldbuilding which is relevant both for manga and anime.
First of all, wtf is with this world's royalty? In a world where one person can wipe out an entire army, no way a person who isn't powerful on his own can hold absolute authority for any period of time. All it takes is one AVERAGE mage to assassinate a normie king, even if he's protected by guards, plus it's not like he's going to be surrounded by them non-stop. Let's remember the scene where the hero party disrespected a king and are threatened to be executed—the king and the guards absolutely wouldn't have the chance against the party, and the ones to be executed would be them if Frieren and Co resisted in any capacity. If the king's guards were strong enough to protect the king from their party, then Demon Lord wouldn't be a problem to begin with, just send an army and kill him. So we have a rather simple logic, Frieren and Co >>> Demon Lord >>> Seven Sages>>>> the entire kingdom, let alone just the king. A person who's a walking nuclear weapon doesn't have a reason to respect the authority of people armed with junk. Especially if that person is many times older. Frieren meekly abiding by the rules of humans (like showing respect to nobles or allowing herself to be sent to prison or to the mines) is like an adult who plays along with 5-year-olds even when their games go as far as making the adult play the role of a slave and kiss their little feet. Though to be fair, the difference in power between a 5-year-old and an adult is actually much LESS than between Frieren and some guards enforcing the law in a random city. It's as if the author put zero thoughts into the world initially, just using a "generic fantasy world from a JRPG" as a template, and only after the manga got some popularity started to actually put some actual effort (like with demons and mage association), but it was too late already. He probably planned a much shorter story initially.
Second, while the author created a really interested power system for magic users, there's literally none for the physical combatants, they just hit hard and survive being hit back, lol. So it's not surprising that Stark barely played any role for the last two thirds of the manga and even when he did his fights were underwhelming.
Third—was anyone else greatly annoyed at the part where Sein saved the day? The notion that there's such a thing as a curse that can't be countered (unless with legendary magic which is one of a kind) and resisted no matter how powerful you are (unless you're a priest, then it's easy-peasy) and a random monster can use it in the boonies out of nowhere (not even a Sage of Destruction) challenges my suspension of disbelief way too much, but then we add the fact that it's the only such encounter in the entire manga and that it coincidentally happened JUST RIGHT when the party had someone to counter this ability (even though they only joined briefly) just makes it ridiculous. And also messes up the power levels—in theory, that random monster was powerful enough to wipe out the entire magic association, how much sense does it make? Priests also don't have a proper magic system, just like fighters, which makes it worse. And then afterwards, Frieren also doesn't give much shit when Sein leaves the party, leaving them absolutely helpless if they encounter another similar enemy. Basically, the rest of their journey they survived just because they were lucky to not encounter a non-counterable random monster with a curse.
I like the manga overall (though the anime is overrated for some mysterious reason, if you check ratings by episodes here or on imdb they, on average, are lower than those of, let's say, JJK S2), but stuff like that just makes me annoyed and requires too much additional mental effort to suspend my disbelief further than normally required. Do you think I'm being too nitpicky, or are there some more problems that I missed? What annoyed you the most in the story?
Regarding Sein saving the day. It is explained that priests use the goddess magic which Freiren and other mages cannot use. To be a priest you have to be born with some kind of affinity to the goddess magic. Freiren as powerful as she is does not have power against curses.
| Bruh, did you even read my message? I know the explanations, and I even mentioned them myself. As well as what are the problems with them. |
Dec 28, 2023 5:12 AM
#10
Reply to Cetus9999
Frieren simply doesn't care how she spends her time and is naturally tolerant when it comes to anything but demons. She isn't remotely bothered by the notion of spending a couple years in prison or in mines, and possibly does it because she is annoyed at Fern or because she thinks Stark and Fern can grow if they rescue her somehow.
The point Stark doesn't do anything is 100% true!!! He just has random old men teach him offscreen in various places and plays with kids whenever he arrives at a village, which is a fun trait but he hasn't done any cool 1v1s since the fight with Linie. Give him a magic weapon or a chapter dedicated to his thoughts about moving during combat please
Sein saving the day is fine IMO he needs one cool moment before getting kicked from the story. The monster is said to be a mutated version of another monster right? Frieren could have been comfortable leaving Sein because those are so rare. Also... they could probably flee if the situation is completely unmanageable on their end. In fact, I'm pretty sure Frieren tries to quickly leave the village where the flower is hunting until Sein explains how he can help, and planned to avoid fighting Macht until Denken invites her with a plan
The point Stark doesn't do anything is 100% true!!! He just has random old men teach him offscreen in various places and plays with kids whenever he arrives at a village, which is a fun trait but he hasn't done any cool 1v1s since the fight with Linie. Give him a magic weapon or a chapter dedicated to his thoughts about moving during combat please
Sein saving the day is fine IMO he needs one cool moment before getting kicked from the story. The monster is said to be a mutated version of another monster right? Frieren could have been comfortable leaving Sein because those are so rare. Also... they could probably flee if the situation is completely unmanageable on their end. In fact, I'm pretty sure Frieren tries to quickly leave the village where the flower is hunting until Sein explains how he can help, and planned to avoid fighting Macht until Denken invites her with a plan
| @Cetus9999 I would agree with you about Frieren just not caring about her time if she didn't follow all the stupid rules of the nobles and not the situation when Heiter disrespected the king. As for Sein, there could be cool moments with him without making him the only possible solution against an enemy which they met way too coincidentally. When you make such an unlikely even happen just at the most unlikely time—at the only time in the story where the main characters could possibly solve the problem—then it's just lazy writing. As for how rare those monsters—we have no idea, but it seems to be too big of a risk, they could've at least get some random priest accompany them instead of Sein to be better safe than sorry. And I don't think that it's likely for them to escape every time they encounter a similar monster. All in all, you made the most sound arguments so far among those who replied to the thread, lol. |
Dec 29, 2023 1:58 AM
#11
MyOwnGod said: @Cetus9999 I would agree with you about Frieren just not caring about her time if she didn't follow all the stupid rules of the nobles and not the situation when Heiter disrespected the king. As for Sein, there could be cool moments with him without making him the only possible solution against an enemy which they met way too coincidentally. When you make such an unlikely even happen just at the most unlikely time—at the only time in the story where the main characters could possibly solve the problem—then it's just lazy writing. As for how rare those monsters—we have no idea, but it seems to be too big of a risk, they could've at least get some random priest accompany them instead of Sein to be better safe than sorry. And I don't think that it's likely for them to escape every time they encounter a similar monster. All in all, you made the most sound arguments so far among those who replied to the thread, lol. Yea cuz i agree with you mostly. Im sure if it was a LN they could explain these things alot more. Your complaints aren't completely undeniable inconsistencies, anyone can make their own headcanon answers, but the manga just doesn't bother building the parts of the world that would make these examples more understandable from the perspective the author looks at the story. And I totally get that frustration, I'm glad you mostly enjoyed it anyways though. |
Dec 31, 2023 5:29 PM
#12
| I think it's nitpicking to assume that a king has to be strong to hold authority. Even the strongest warriors have points of weakness that can be exploited when they're unprepared. A random arrow can kill anyone if they're not looking and unprepared, strength has nothing to do with this. In our world, gun are faster and easier to hide than magic, yet we don't see assassins that often (today at least). The most common deterrent of assassination attempts is what happens after. In Frieren's case, this would likely mean that even if someone attempted to kill the king, they would either die or escape and have to live the rest of their live in obscurity. The number of people that could overpower royal guards is likely low and would have to be prepared to face both warriors/mages of at least Denken's leve after the assassination. Frieren's case was definitely an exception -- after all, how likely are you to encounter a 1000+ YO mage capable of defeating the demon king? Frieren's current party is also an exception -- Frieren herself, Fern trained by Frieren, and Stark trained by humanity's strongest warrior. They could probably assassinate the demon king, but they wouldn't want to suffer the consequences after. I would argue no one from the mage exams is capable of safely assassinating a king, it's likely the kingdom's strongest warriors/mages are as strong as the magic exam proctors. Regarding why strong people would want to follow a king. You said money, but that's only one answer. Realistically, being part of the top brass of a medieval fantasy would give you land, political power, special privileges, a safety net for their family, and of course, wealth. The kingdom probably has the most of these to give, so that's why people work for the kingdom. As to why the kingdom has this, it's probably just because it's existed the longest or won the most recent wars. You are also exposed to people of similar power levels (e.g. a strong knight order or group of imperial mages), so it's not like you're stagnating in some backwater place. The Mage Association might just have much less to give, though we don't know for sure how and why. This could be that due to magic association being only relatively new or it could be related to the Holy Wand emblem Frieren carries. |
Jan 3, 2024 6:22 AM
#13
| Your whole essay had many flaws in it. 1. "It takes average mage to kill normie king" yeah likewise in realworld, it takes an average fighting expert to kill a president. 2."plus it's not like he going to be surrounded by them non-step" yeah likewise in realworld in case of president. 3. If you bring hero party being executed case, then no they can't defend themselves against 1000s of royal guards and mages even if they resist. 4. Why didn't royal guards go to defeat the demon lord if they are strong? (Again another childish question) Ans: Because lets assume 1000 royal guards are sent. What about food supply and other requirement journey. 5. "Frieren doesn't have a reason to obey the authorities" and here my friend you are wrong yet again. Watch episode 10 again and that became her habit. She's just very indifferent to her surroundings. 6. Regarding Stark, the only point i would agree of yours, this manga not giving enough time to shine Stark and their power system. 7. Regarding Sein, Priest are supposed to heal, give stamina, and purify curse/poison. Thats why Adventure Party exist with different types of members. 8. Overall, you are nitpicking things for unknown reason which occured only once in the series as coincidence and taking them as world building and power system which frieren or any other didn't even confirmed if its the norm or not and why not. On top of that, you are hanging on meaningless stuff as episodic ratings where only around 1000 people will vote. Just Play Dungeons & Dragons, if you wanna fully understand Frieren world building. |
Jan 6, 2024 6:38 PM
#14
MyOwnGod said: It's as if the author put zero thoughts into the world initially, just using a "generic fantasy world from a JRPG" as a template, and only after the manga got some popularity started to actually put some actual effort (like with demons and mage association), but it was too late already. He probably planned a much shorter story initially. This is the part where you got confused. Frieren never tried to be different from your usual D&D Fantasy set, "But now a story of post-demon-lord defeat." You overestimated this work, only to be disappointed by your own excessive demands. Just relax and enjoy the show. |
 |
Jan 6, 2024 6:40 PM
#15
| I really don't go anylzing but the show isn't bad |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
Jan 10, 2024 8:13 AM
#16
Reply to Mizuwa
I think it's nitpicking to assume that a king has to be strong to hold authority. Even the strongest warriors have points of weakness that can be exploited when they're unprepared. A random arrow can kill anyone if they're not looking and unprepared, strength has nothing to do with this. In our world, gun are faster and easier to hide than magic, yet we don't see assassins that often (today at least). The most common deterrent of assassination attempts is what happens after. In Frieren's case, this would likely mean that even if someone attempted to kill the king, they would either die or escape and have to live the rest of their live in obscurity. The number of people that could overpower royal guards is likely low and would have to be prepared to face both warriors/mages of at least Denken's leve after the assassination. Frieren's case was definitely an exception -- after all, how likely are you to encounter a 1000+ YO mage capable of defeating the demon king? Frieren's current party is also an exception -- Frieren herself, Fern trained by Frieren, and Stark trained by humanity's strongest warrior. They could probably assassinate the demon king, but they wouldn't want to suffer the consequences after. I would argue no one from the mage exams is capable of safely assassinating a king, it's likely the kingdom's strongest warriors/mages are as strong as the magic exam proctors.
Regarding why strong people would want to follow a king. You said money, but that's only one answer. Realistically, being part of the top brass of a medieval fantasy would give you land, political power, special privileges, a safety net for their family, and of course, wealth. The kingdom probably has the most of these to give, so that's why people work for the kingdom. As to why the kingdom has this, it's probably just because it's existed the longest or won the most recent wars. You are also exposed to people of similar power levels (e.g. a strong knight order or group of imperial mages), so it's not like you're stagnating in some backwater place. The Mage Association might just have much less to give, though we don't know for sure how and why. This could be that due to magic association being only relatively new or it could be related to the Holy Wand emblem Frieren carries.
Regarding why strong people would want to follow a king. You said money, but that's only one answer. Realistically, being part of the top brass of a medieval fantasy would give you land, political power, special privileges, a safety net for their family, and of course, wealth. The kingdom probably has the most of these to give, so that's why people work for the kingdom. As to why the kingdom has this, it's probably just because it's existed the longest or won the most recent wars. You are also exposed to people of similar power levels (e.g. a strong knight order or group of imperial mages), so it's not like you're stagnating in some backwater place. The Mage Association might just have much less to give, though we don't know for sure how and why. This could be that due to magic association being only relatively new or it could be related to the Holy Wand emblem Frieren carries.
| @Mizuwa It seems you don't understand how kings come to exist to begin with in the real world. And how cruel succession wars were. A man with no power to protect himself against superhumans wouldn't be capable of holding any kind of political power. The law also can't be forced on someone stronger than the law enforcement. A mage in Frieren's world is equalent of someone with both a gun and a anti-bullet armor, and to kill a king you don't even need to defeat his guards. And then again, why should any of the strongest warriors / mages work as guards anyway? And don't forget that countries don't exist in a vacuum, there are always people who want the king dead, be it the potential successors, kings from foreign countries, revolutionaries, etc. I wrote in detail all the points of the worldbuilding that didn't make sense to me, you tried to argue just with one or two of them and wasn't very convincing... And let's imagine for a moment that in the world of Frieren I'm at the level of a first grade mage. Who and how will stop me if I just take money away from people, rape, kill for fun, etc? I bet that other first grade mages won't be working as police officers, lol. And a bunch of normal knights wouldn't be very effective against me. And another thing—if the kingdom is so strong that it has a whole bunch of warriors and mages at the level of exam proctors, why didn't they send a hundred of those to stop the demons, who're the threat to the entire humanity, hmm? Why only the hero's party was capable of killing the Sages of Destruction, does it make sense to you, if a bunch of people at the same power level lived back then? And let me remind you, the "rich kingdom" didn't even pay anyone to stop a direct threat to it and the world. And there wasn't just one single kingdom, either. And why would heroes even return to that faraway kingdom to begin with? Instead of living in countries closer to the demon lord castle. It's not like they had any families there. |
Jan 10, 2024 8:26 AM
#17
Reply to HiBorz
Your whole essay had many flaws in it.
1. "It takes average mage to kill normie king" yeah likewise in realworld, it takes an average fighting expert to kill a president.
2."plus it's not like he going to be surrounded by them non-step" yeah likewise in realworld in case of president.
3. If you bring hero party being executed case, then no they can't defend themselves against 1000s of royal guards and mages even if they resist.
4. Why didn't royal guards go to defeat the demon lord if they are strong?
(Again another childish question)
Ans: Because lets assume 1000 royal guards are sent. What about food supply and other requirement journey.
5. "Frieren doesn't have a reason to obey the authorities" and here my friend you are wrong yet again. Watch episode 10 again and that became her habit.
She's just very indifferent to her surroundings.
6. Regarding Stark, the only point i would agree of yours, this manga not giving enough time to shine Stark and their power system.
7. Regarding Sein, Priest are supposed to heal, give stamina, and purify curse/poison. Thats why Adventure Party exist with different types of members.
8. Overall, you are nitpicking things for unknown reason which occured only once in the series as coincidence and taking them as world building and power system which frieren or any other didn't even confirmed if its the norm or not and why not.
On top of that, you are hanging on meaningless stuff as episodic ratings where only around 1000 people will vote.
Just Play Dungeons & Dragons, if you wanna fully understand Frieren world building.
1. "It takes average mage to kill normie king" yeah likewise in realworld, it takes an average fighting expert to kill a president.
2."plus it's not like he going to be surrounded by them non-step" yeah likewise in realworld in case of president.
3. If you bring hero party being executed case, then no they can't defend themselves against 1000s of royal guards and mages even if they resist.
4. Why didn't royal guards go to defeat the demon lord if they are strong?
(Again another childish question)
Ans: Because lets assume 1000 royal guards are sent. What about food supply and other requirement journey.
5. "Frieren doesn't have a reason to obey the authorities" and here my friend you are wrong yet again. Watch episode 10 again and that became her habit.
She's just very indifferent to her surroundings.
6. Regarding Stark, the only point i would agree of yours, this manga not giving enough time to shine Stark and their power system.
7. Regarding Sein, Priest are supposed to heal, give stamina, and purify curse/poison. Thats why Adventure Party exist with different types of members.
8. Overall, you are nitpicking things for unknown reason which occured only once in the series as coincidence and taking them as world building and power system which frieren or any other didn't even confirmed if its the norm or not and why not.
On top of that, you are hanging on meaningless stuff as episodic ratings where only around 1000 people will vote.
Just Play Dungeons & Dragons, if you wanna fully understand Frieren world building.
| @HiBorz 1,2. First of all, presidents don't really hold absolute power and they are chosen both by the masses and the influential parties. Also, every country's leader is always protected by a bunch of people and in the real world, people don't have much of a difference in power, compared to fantasy worlds. If you bothered to actually study some history you would know that kings were often assassinated throughout the history and that succession wars were absolutely brutal. 3. Lol, are you okay buddy? How the heck did you read the manga. Aura the Sage of Destruction single-handedly was sieging an entire city with an actual army, and she still lost to the single Frieren. And, if you just turn on your brain, you will understand that if the hero party was weaker than 1000 guards and mages, then the humanity wouldn't have any trouble killing all the demons. And yet, only the hero party was strong enough to kill the Sages of Destruction. And each Sage is literally a one-man's army. Just like in a video game, a thousand level 1 characters won't even hurt a level 100 character, no matter how much they try. A similar logic applies to mages in this world from what we were shown again and again. 4. Are you okay, buddy? (again) Bruh, you're either very young or just missed all your history lessons. 1000 is an incredibly small army by medieval standards. Alexander the Great had an army of 50 000 people, and they conquered half of Eurasia, no supply problems—they are easy to solve with enough investment and slaves / workers. And Genghis Han's army was three times as big. And those were pre-medieval times as well, with no magic or modern science. In the medieval times armies were even bigger and wars could last for years. Also, it seems you missed the fact that there were countries directly at the border with the demons... and they were at war... and they had armies...and they were losing... until the hero's party saved the day. It was pretty much directly displayed that you can't win a powerful mage / warrior / demon with numbers. 5. ??? And where's the actual reason? You didn't name any, lol. 7. You missed the point. 8. ??? From here on, your words stopped following any logic, sorry. |
MyOwnGodJan 10, 2024 8:30 AM
More topics from this board
Poll: » Sousou no Frieren Chapter 144 DiscussionARK-13 - Sep 2 |
15 |
by StylishVampire
»»
Today, 1:01 AM |
|
Poll: » Sousou no Frieren Chapter 145 DiscussionARK-13 - Sep 15 |
15 |
by ueNiz
»»
Sep 23, 11:30 AM |
|
» Flamme (theory)Haunt88 - Sep 18 |
6 |
by Helvetica_Chief
»»
Sep 19, 12:08 PM |
|
Poll: » Sousou no Frieren Chapter 47 Discussionorangeskull - Apr 20, 2021 |
12 |
by Uguu_Tsukimiya
»»
Sep 16, 8:22 AM |
|
Poll: » Sousou no Frieren Chapter 37 Discussionorangeskull - Feb 9, 2021 |
16 |
by Uguu_Tsukimiya
»»
Sep 15, 1:59 PM |