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why the slow pacing in the beginning but rush ending? its the Japanese Arts way called Jo-Ha-Kyu

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do you like Jo-Ha-Kyu in anime pacing or storytelling?
Dec 26, 2021 2:21 PM
#1
lagom
Online
Jan 2009
107420
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jo-ha-ky%C5%AB
is a concept of modulation and movement applied in a wide variety of traditional Japanese arts. Roughly translated to "beginning, break, rapid", it essentially means that all actions or efforts should begin slowly, speed up, and then end swiftly.

to those that are wondering why most anime have pacing issues its because of this

so do you like it? i personally came to accept it since thats how the Japanese Arts way of doing things anyway
degDec 26, 2021 2:28 PM
Dec 26, 2021 2:24 PM
#2

Offline
Feb 2016
14973
I hate the way you always place loaded questions in your polls. The answers you provide are provocative, as if you're trying to start a flame war.
その目だれの目?
Dec 26, 2021 2:26 PM
#3
lagom
Online
Jan 2009
107420
Lucifrost said:
I hate the way you always place loaded questions in your polls. The answers you provide are provocative, as if you're trying to start a flame war.


do you simply want me to add yes or no only then?
Dec 26, 2021 2:27 PM
#4

Offline
Feb 2016
14973
deg said:
Lucifrost said:
I hate the way you always place loaded questions in your polls. The answers you provide are provocative, as if you're trying to start a flame war.


do you simply want me to add yes or no only then?

Yes, that would be better.
--------
その目だれの目?
Dec 26, 2021 2:39 PM
#5

Offline
Jan 2021
440
I personally don't think it's specific to Japanese media. I my opinion, a lot of medias from other country have the same slow at the start fast at the end structure.
Is it bad or not, well it as it's quality and flaws but in my opinion, it all depends on the context of the story and the execution.
Dec 26, 2021 2:40 PM
#6

Offline
Mar 2021
4152
deg said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jo-ha-ky%C5%AB
is a concept of modulation and movement applied in a wide variety of traditional Japanese arts. Roughly translated to "beginning, break, rapid", it essentially means that all actions or efforts should begin slowly, speed up, and then end swiftly.

to those that are wondering why most anime have pacing issues its because of this

so do you like it? i personally came to accept it since thats how the Japanese Arts way of doing things anyway


It all boils down to bad directing. A good Director should be able to have the foresight to balance this out better. With Anime it's difficult because there is still a budget and time constraints so redoing anything is extremely costly as well as time consuming when it comes to redoing anything from scratch. So it's convenient to just call it a traditional Japanese art form.

Regardless of this being a Japanese art form. I have talked with several people before who worked on western animation projects before and they have all told me that usually slow beginnings and rushed endings are due to several factors which all boils down to bad direction to begin with.
ColourWheelDec 26, 2021 2:45 PM


Dec 26, 2021 2:43 PM
#7

Offline
Oct 2009
698
Fast endings are not necessarily a bad thing if it can resolve all the main plot points in a satisfactory manner. If on the other major plot threads are left hanging, or worse, missed then to me this means the ending was poorly written.

Looking at the format as a whole, I feel it can work provided one is mindful of not being overly ambitious with the beginning and middle arcs. I have seen anime try to overly complicate the premise but then end up having trouble wrapping things up or addressing earlier points raised in the series. The best recent example I can give is Sonny Boy which introduced a lot of interesting concepts but largely abandoned them come the seasons end.

If you are going to write a quick ending then sometimes less is more because a more simple or concise story allows the writer to focus and concentrate in addressing all points at the end. So in short I don't think this style is necessarily a bad thing but if you follow this process then careful consideration needs to be made for each arc so the flow is seamless and doesn't detract from the overall impression of the story. But I would say that since anime is a creative form of expression I don't think it should be necessary to strictly adhere to any particular style of storytelling.

Also if you consider the long-term shounen series like Naruto, Bleach etc. they definitely don't follow this style of quick ending!
Dec 26, 2021 2:44 PM
#8

Offline
Sep 2018
5287
It worked well for Evangelion, but 99% of the time it's the main reason why endings are bad.
Dec 26, 2021 2:44 PM
#9
lagom
Online
Jan 2009
107420
ColourWheel said:
deg said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jo-ha-ky%C5%AB
is a concept of modulation and movement applied in a wide variety of traditional Japanese arts. Roughly translated to "beginning, break, rapid", it essentially means that all actions or efforts should begin slowly, speed up, and then end swiftly.

to those that are wondering why most anime have pacing issues its because of this

so do you like it? i personally came to accept it since thats how the Japanese Arts way of doing things anyway


It all boils down to bad directing. A good Director should be able to have the foresight to balance this out better. With Anime it's difficult because there is still a budget and time constraints so redoing anything is extremely costly as well as time consuming when it comes to redoing anything from scratch.

Regardless of this being a Japanese art form. I have talked with several people before who worked on western animation projects before and they have all told me that usually rushed endings are due to several factors which all boils down to bad direction to begin with.


balancing by direction as in making the beginning and ending have enough pacing or time?

but Jo-Ha-Kyu is intentional way of pacing though and not about balancing of pacing or storytelling or mismanagement by the director
Dec 26, 2021 2:48 PM

Offline
Mar 2021
4152
deg said:
ColourWheel said:


It all boils down to bad directing. A good Director should be able to have the foresight to balance this out better. With Anime it's difficult because there is still a budget and time constraints so redoing anything is extremely costly as well as time consuming when it comes to redoing anything from scratch.

Regardless of this being a Japanese art form. I have talked with several people before who worked on western animation projects before and they have all told me that usually rushed endings are due to several factors which all boils down to bad direction to begin with.


balancing by direction as in making the beginning and ending have enough pacing or time?

but Jo-Ha-Kyu is intentional way of pacing though and not about balancing of pacing or storytelling or mismanagement by the director


I accidently posted before I was done explaining so I will just re-post my edit...

It all boils down to bad directing. A good Director should be able to have the foresight to balance this out better. With Anime it's difficult because there is still a budget and time constraints so redoing anything is extremely costly as well as time consuming when it comes to redoing anything from scratch. So it's convenient to just call it a traditional Japanese art form.

Regardless of this being a Japanese art form. I have talked with several people before who worked on western animation projects before and they have all told me that usually slow beginnings and rushed endings are due to several factors which all boils down to bad direction to begin with.

edit: Also most Anime these days are adaptations so it doesn't have much to do with story telling unless they go completely off script from the original source.
ColourWheelDec 26, 2021 2:51 PM


Dec 26, 2021 2:50 PM
Offline
Jul 2018
561867
Some anime do it well, others don't. Following one formula is bad because every story is different. So I would say that I don't like it because it ruins some anime that could have been better with a different pacing. But in and of itself it's not worse than any other approach.
Dec 26, 2021 2:52 PM
lagom
Online
Jan 2009
107420
monsta666 said:

Also if you consider the long-term shounen series like Naruto, Bleach etc. they definitely don't follow this style of quick ending!


about Sonny Boy its just a personal dream project of its director showing his beliefs and ideas about the world and universe so ye its not your typical story lol thats what i have read on interviews about it and some twitter posts that translated those japanese interviews about the director too

as for Naruto and Bleach i still remember people complaining that the last arc of the manga is too fast pace like in Naruto the main lady villain got not much screen time while in Bleach there is too many unanswered question left like it has an open ending rather than a conclusive ending heck not all bankai are shown
Dec 26, 2021 3:14 PM

Offline
Sep 2008
4490
oh, so this is the reason I hate japanese movies.
I have a better explanation.
EYE CATCH the first 5 minutes of the movie, it's meant to hook you for the rest of the runtime, waiting for the cool thing to happen again. it's a teaser basically.
BOREDOM a roughly 1 hour 30 minutes long segment, which tells a story that may be loosely related to the eye catch, but doesn't serve a real purpose. it's padding. (in most cases you can tell by the characters feeling conflicted, not wanting to do what must be done.)
CLIMAX you'll see the most mind blowing action and choreography, previously unknown to mankind.
this is the selling point, the one scene the complete movie was built around. it lasts for 10 to 20 minutes, erasing all the vague memories you might still possess about the plot (unless you fell asleep during the boredom segment. don't worry, the loud noises will wake you up so you won't miss the crazy action)
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