Isayama’s biggest writing flaw & that's why AOT will forever be broken masterpiece!

lick_the_lemon said:
I think why many people still after spending 75 episodes with characters of aot don't feel any attachment to them is excruciating lack of attention to side characters isayama has thought from beginning & what's more frustrating is actually writing side impact characters is one of his strongest writing abilities,so why is this dichotomy present.For exp. You learn more about owl-his dream, ambition,fear, motivation & conclusion in 2 episodes than you do with Mikasa & Levi for 75 episodes.wtf is this writing? He writes better character in 21 minutes like grisha,Zeke,Kenny,owl.do you even remember a single memorable thing bertolt says & does in 59 episodes (our primary antagonist) than major gross(side villain) whose dialogue is so impactful & actions so fucked up.In story about inequality,isayama is more inequal to his characters & that's why story of aot might be masterpiece but it's character will be forgotten easily.

lick_the_lemon said:
I think why many people still after spending 75 episodes with characters of aot don't feel any attachment to them is excruciating lack of attention to side characters isayama has thought from beginning & what's more frustrating is actually writing side impact characters is one of his strongest writing abilities,so why is this dichotomy present.For exp. You learn more about owl-his dream, ambition,fear, motivation & conclusion in 2 episodes than you do with Mikasa & Levi for 75 episodes.wtf is this writing? He writes better character in 21 minutes like grisha,Zeke,Kenny,owl.do you even remember a single memorable thing bertolt says & does in 59 episodes (our primary antagonist) than major gross(side villain) whose dialogue is so impactful & actions so fucked up.In story about inequality,isayama is more inequal to his characters & that's why story of aot might be masterpiece but it's character will be forgotten easily.

certifiedbinger said:
i agree. Isayama excels at storytelling and worldbuilding but characters aren't exactly his strong suit.
Although I'd say they're pretty standard. But for a story that's as non-standard and unique as it gets, basic characters can feel out of place. That's what it felt like to me.

DeadmanMano said:
It’s easier for an author to make you care about smaller characters because we learn everything important about them before we can organically form an opinion on them. A character like Owl needs to be impactful because their screen time is abysmal; if their dialogue wasn’t memorable or if it was filled with a bunch of filler, no one would care or even remember who Owl was. At the end of the day, he’s a plot device; we remember because he progressed the plot and not because of who he is.

A character like Mikasa is more complicated. She grows is more subtle, seemingly insignificant ways. Moments like Mikasa thanking Eren for wrapping the scarf around her neck, or Bertholdt watching in horror as his former friends let him be eaten by Armin carry more weight than people admit. Do they progress the plot? No, but they don’t need to. It’s okay for a character to just exist without being ridiculously complex. Look at how many people love Sasha despite her being boiled down to “Potato Girl”; it’s the little things that matter to a lot of people.

Nitroade24h said:
Yeah if it had as good characters as something like Evangelion then AoT would be basically perfect

BanzaiAlex said:
Yeah I agree there are literally only 3 characters out of the whole cast I would call good

MoonStar9 said:
Agreed. It has always been a longstanding gripe I've had with this series. The side characters are far more interesting the main ones. Then they die. I'm still pissed my boy Erwin was sacrificed for Armin.

Ymir going off to get herself eaten just because Isayama was done with her is such a bullshit betrayal of her entire character.

Alvacka97 said:
And those good characters are?

Panchovi said:
of course i remember:
"Tell me who! Who the hell would want to kill people by their own choice?! Who the hell would like doing this sort of thing?! Do you think I wanted to do this?! People hate and despise us... We've done such terrible things, we deserve to die. Things we'll never be able to take back... But... we just... couldn't come to terms with our sins. The only time we had some respite... was when we pretended to be soldiers That's not a lie!.

"This sure is a peculiar feeling. I'm not scared at all, for once. And I see everything clearly.I know... that no
matter what happens,I can accept how this ends.
Yeah. No one'is in the wrong here.There was nothing to be done. We had no choice in all this. Because this world...
is just that cruel."

that problem that you say is over with first season i mean you're right in some characters and at some moments they falter but not to the level that you say. Besides Levi has his OVAS with his friends, all of Erwin's relationship, all the development with Kenny and the 2 times he has lost his squad and his men and hange...

BanzaiAlex said:


Eren, Jean and Erwin

Alvacka97 said:
What about Reiner, Grisha and Zeke? They are amazing characters too. Well fleshed out personality, deep physiological problems, each have their own unique arc in the story. Memorable scenes, good interaction with the rest of cast.
Altough with Grisha, you probably won't include him if you're an anime only, but he has some of the best scenes in the series in S4 Part 2 (Paths hype)

DKDiabloLicht said:


Although I don't think it happens often, but imagine if there was a story that two writers worked in, he did the world building and storytelling, and another author who is REALLY great and on his level of doing deep and fantastic characters working together to make something absolutely amazing. I know it's a pipedream and will never happen in this way, it sounds so awesome. Like how some singers are bad at a chorus and then they do something with another artist and they make a classic. I have seen plenty of Anime where the storytelling and world building was eh, but the characters were amazing and carried the rest of the weaker parts, it would be so cool if it had the best of both worlds with an epic concept. IF something like that that would be soo hard anyway because one might overtake the other and diminish their strong suits, I bet it would be absolutely unbelievable.

BloodyTaer said:
yeah i suppose thats why i didn't give a fuck about sasha's death, and why i wouldn't give a fuck if jean, connie, historia, or any of the military leaders died

cause theyre clearely not important to the story if they only had like 10 minutes of screentime throughout the whole show

Alvacka97 said:
Eren, Reiner, Erwin, Zeke, Grisha and Jean are not good characters because?
Can you at least explain why?

rvfharrier said:
Some shows are character focused, others are plot focused and both are equally viable. AoT is very much a plot focused show and while the character writing isn't the very best I've seen, that doesn't mean it's not good. Particularly this latest season the characterisation of the Marleyans and the warrior candidates has been excellent I've felt. For all of the dumb hate she gets, Gabi is a very well written character and Reiner has been fleshed out incredibly well. Jean also had a great arc in S1, though it's a shame he faded into the background as the plot took over.

The only characters I really take issue with are Levi and Mikasa. Flat, bland and they feel like out-of-place superheroes in a grounded, gritty realistic world with harsh consequences.

BloodyTaer said:
yeah i suppose thats why i didn't give a fuck about sasha's death, and why i wouldn't give a fuck if jean, connie, historia, or any of the military leaders died

cause theyre clearely not important to the story if they only had like 10 minutes of screentime throughout the whole show

Alvacka97 said:
Jean, connie and historia have way more than just 10 minutes of screentime.
Hell, Hisu had an entire arc dedicated to her and Jean is amongst the most developed characters in the entire series, only surpassed by Reiner and Eren.

DeadmanMano said:
It’s easier for an author to make you care about smaller characters because we learn everything important about them before we can organically form an opinion on them. A character like Owl needs to be impactful because their screen time is abysmal; if their dialogue wasn’t memorable or if it was filled with a bunch of filler, no one would care or even remember who Owl was. At the end of the day, he’s a plot device; we remember because he progressed the plot and not because of who he is.

A character like Mikasa is more complicated. She grows is more subtle, seemingly insignificant ways. Moments like Mikasa thanking Eren for wrapping the scarf around her neck, or Bertholdt watching in horror as his former friends let him be eaten by Armin carry more weight than people admit. Do they progress the plot? No, but they don’t need to. It’s okay for a character to just exist without being ridiculously complex. Look at how many people love Sasha despite her being boiled down to “Potato Girl”; it’s the little things that matter to a lot of people.

nhl2004 said:
I think the problem is with how people view character development. Most people think huge ass monologues, lots of crying, screaming and then realization only makes character development, when its not really so.

here is something called implicit character growth and we see that happen a lot throughout the show. Jean, Connie and Levi have those moments.

We see Jean go from being a guy looking for comfort and affluence to a highly dedicated soldier who exhibits leadership traits in Season 1.

In season 2, we see him being all distraught and shit after the betrayals and tries to appeal to Reiner and Bert.
In stark contrast, in season 3 pt 2, he takes the lead role in trying to capture Reiner and despite his judgement letting Reiner slip in the end, it does show how far he's come.

In season 4, Jean fully realizes his leadership potential and becomes leads and flawlessly executes the neutralization of the Cart Titan.

Same goes for Mikasa. In the time, she thinks Eren to be dead, she does find answers on living in a world without Eren. When Bert and Reiner betray, we see her subconsciously avoid critically injuring Reiner because she cannot let go those feelings of comradeship she has cultivated.

In s3 pt 2, we se her come to terms with the "death" of Armin, despite him being the second closest person to her.

Same goes for Connie, who develops significantly from being a goofball to a hardened soldier; Hanji who goes from being a carefree titan enthusiast to a dedicated coup plotter, and then finally becomes a depressed woman weighed down by responsibility and comes to realize that the people they removed via coup where the same as them - people who want the best for their country.

Then let's see Levi. First I want to talk about his traits. His obsession with cleanliness displays the psychological scars of being raised in the underground slums. His foul mouth is a remainder to his criminal background. But thats just superficial detail. Let's go deeper.
In season 1, we see him collecting pieces of cloth (having the survey corp insignia on them) from the bodies of his dead comrades. When titans start chasing them after 2 members go out to retrieve their dead friends' body, the surveyy corps dump the dead bodies to lighten their weight. We then see something curious. There's an expression of cold grief as Levi watches a body (Petra's I think) fall away. Later on, when the guy's responsible for the extra trouble are crying, Levi goes up to them and gives them a piece of cloth which he says belonged to their friend. However, that cloth he gave was actually from one of his own squad members. Essentially, he gave away the last memory of his own precious subordinate to someone else just to console them in their grief.
Idk about you, but that was a very quiet yet powerful scene. Same goes in the Kenny arc, where Levi confronts his uncle (while he was dying) and in a moment's weakness, asks why he left him all those years ago. This shows the resentment, insecurity and grief he held for all those years after being abandoned by the second person who ever cared for him. We also see another example of his character when Erwin is dying. He fully comprehended Kenny's philosophy of "slavery" at that moment and comes to the conclusion that Erwin is a slave to the past while Armin was a slave to the future. Erwin had nothing ahead of him after discovering the secrets of the basement, and would essentially be condemned to a joyless life of "playing the devil". Armin however had something ahead of him, which would give his life meaning. Hence he chooses to "free" his friend from his shackles while also giving Armin a chance to look to the future
Of course there is a reason why the likes of Gross, Kruger or Sadis feel more impactful. Because they significantly moved the plot forward and AoT, being a plot driven show naturally gives great importance to them. This is also why characters like Eren, Zeke, Reiner, Grisha and Erwin feel far more impactful than all of the cast. Its because they continuously push forward. Their choices create the story and the other characters react to the story they create.

However their reactions do display their character and growth, though subtly. You simply have to look beyond the superfiical.

BloodyTaer said:
i don't agree but ok

Fax001s said:

You can't disagree with facts lmao

BloodyTaer said:
you consider your opinion about jean being the third most developed character of aot a fact, bro thats not just a lie, thats a dumbass opinion, wheres erwin? levi? grisha? zeke? armin?

jean is literally the most defult background character i have ever seen, in the first couple of episodes he went from 'i want to live a safe life' to 'i will sacrifice myself for humanity' and then nothing, historia is nothing but a plot convenience character, she helps ymir develop and then helps with the dethroning arc in s3 p1 and then does fuck all