Japanese View on the comparison Hige and KoiKimo

HatTrickPatrick said:
Why is Higehiro different?

quantum2000 said:

Unlike the other examples Higehiro is a poorly written soap opera. It is not a police drama or something dealing with serious social issues. Here the social issues are present but only to make the story more tearful.
I can imagine the same story going on in a historical context (like e.g. Edo period ) Taking it out of the contemporary Japan context would only add it credibility.

HatTrickPatrick said:


I don't think the nature of the show portraying the crime is a valid distinction here. "Poorly written soap opera" is a matter of viewer enjoyment, which is not something any two people have the same experience with. In my opinion, many NCIS episodes are poorly written soap operas. Many people would disagree with me.

Whether a show deals with serious social issues or not, whether it's a cartoon or a police procedural, and regardless of how it implements them, it can portray a crime being committed. It's either acceptable, unacceptable, or there's a line in the sand that people don't have the right to draw based on their opinion of it, let alone be outraged about it being crossed. I am unappreciative of the expectation of a double standard.

ttc1Hundred said:
The favorability behind KoiKimo and HigeHiro in the West vs. Japan is interesting. I’ve been reading a book (Culture Hacks) that outlines general differences in thinking among, China, Japan, and America, and the responses to these two anime seem to fit with the book’s generalizations:

Japanese tend to be intuitive, literal thinkers, while Americans tend to be linear thinkers with a balance between literal and abstract. Different frameworks by which the world is perceived.

Take the Japanese response to KoiKimo, less controversy, more positive than Higehiro. This may be attributed to Japanese tending to be literal thinkers, in which Higehiro depicts a crime, so even if there’s the argument of “a crime but it is done in good-nature”, they get stuck on the fact that it’s literally a crime. KoiKimo, on the other hand, does nothing illegal, so there’s no issue/controversy

Americans (and likely the West in general) tend to be less literal thinkers, and the generally more favorable and less controversial response towards HigeHiro compared to Japan may be because instead of getting stuck on the fact that it depicts a literal crime, we generally look at the nature of the act. Maybe it’s a crime, but it’s done with intention of helping someone, kind of thing. KoiKimo on the other hand, seems to get more backlash with the Western audience. Again being less literal thinkers, even though nothing illegal is being done, the nature of the interactions between the MC and girl makes it questionable for many. Nothing literal, just a more abstract notion behind why KoiKimo is wrong (stemming from stalkerish behavior).

I haven’t looked much into KoiKimo and my sample size is small, so I could be wrong about the Western response there. Just from what I saw there were a lot of people rating it poorly thinking it was creepy or wrong

marcioma said:
A fictional story can be useful in providing a different perspective on a topic. You may thing the story is good or bad, but it gives the audience an alternative view on something that is socially condemned.

What makes the story interesting is the fact that he did the opposite of the other random guys. It means, he did good actions but it is a still a crime. Thats an interesting discussion and what makes the show popular. I dont understand how it is dishonest.

When they show the protagonist helping and protecting the runaway in contrast with the people that just took advantage, it actually gives a good example to the viewers.

People not liking a show because there is something considered a crime is in my opinion a weird explanation as people like a lot of stories of criminals. It seems more like a prejudice on a specific kind of act. So, it makes this kind of story even more relevant and interesting.

The couple is in some of the official pictures. They are the main hero and heroine. The premise is literally in the title. If they had become a couple from the beginning, it would have been a different kind of story, one of a forbidden romance, much simpler to deal with because everybody would agree that the guy just took advantage of a minor.

I respect any different point of view even though I dont agree. I just dont see how should the show be condemned? By censoring it? canceling it? When the youtuber or you or someone talks about the show it actually helps selling it.

Finally, as I explained, Higehiro is mainly a drama story, while koikimo is a romance. There are plenty of romance animes with big age gaps and I dont see a real problem in this matter alone. A con seems more like younger dudes that dont like watching an older guy taking the girl. In any case, Koikimo seems a bit uninteresting to me. Comparing it with Higehiro is unnecessary and makes it more like a silly fandom war than a real discussion.

HatTrickPatrick said:

Whether a show deals with serious social issues or not, whether it's a cartoon or a police procedural, and regardless of how it implements them, it can portray a crime being committed. It's either acceptable, unacceptable, or there's a line in the sand that people don't have the right to draw based on their opinion of it, let alone be outraged about it being crossed. I am unappreciative of the expectation of a double standard.

Support_Noob69 said:

Dude you are wrong here. Koikimo got fucking rated so low because people watched the first 3 episodes and just called him a child groomer and a pedophile and dropped the anime. If I have a dollar everytime I see a thread on mal about this show is glorifying pedophelia and Ryo is a child groomer then I probably have enough money to make Gintoki rich.

Support_Noob69 said:


Dude you are wrong here. Koikimo got fucking rated so low because people watched the first 3 episodes and just called him a child groomer and a pedophile and dropped the anime. If I have a dollar everytime I see a thread on mal about this show is glorifying pedophelia and Ryo is a child groomer then I probably have enough money to make Gintoki rich.

I love Koikimo and I love Higehiro and I will admit theres an element of sus in the animes but those are my guilty pleasure. I love (reasonable) age gap anime/manga.

_Ako_ said:

With the flow, I feel like the romance with Higehiro towards Sayu is something that I feel like is just what the author wants to shove down everyone's throat. This is why I didnt like it, I said, I did read the manga like a couple of months back or something when Mangadex was still alive after their server got taken down because of the shit. I want Sayu to ultimately part ways with MC, why? Because Sayu as a character needs to realize the weight she supposedly has just left behind, I dont think MC and Sayu being together is tantalizing in my opinion but well I can just smell that author just wants to shove it down but eh... honestly I'm just glad the LN is finished.

I will put this in this perspective: Domekano baited EVERYONE with its premise. But y'all fucking watched every fucking EP. This is why Higehiro is doing... BAITING YOU. Now is that bad? Not really, in my honest opinion, it's not simply because the ultimate goal of a product is to sell and Higehiro is a product that wants to be sold, and you ppl, you, yes, bought into that. I mean the overall MELODRAMATIC setting of Higehiro is really quite meh.

I have to read the LN to honestly have my wholehearted opinion on this fuckery but from what I've seen in the manga, it's like uhhhh.... you're watching Domekano on a crank-up police siren looming speedrun kind of story. It's kinda "oh I see" at the first and like once you get enough tolerance you'll be like "uhhh can this fuckery just get finished?"

LustKamisama said:


I'm not too sold on how Domekano was bait. After the premise set up, I was fully expecting some stepsibling/teacher fuckery, and in the end, it delivered a pack loaded with that drama. Even with the controversial ending, I wouldn't call it to bait.

For Hige it just follows the format of MC saved FMC from a threat and FMC fall in love with MC. In this case, the threat is runaways and I'm 99% sure people picked up this series is because their interested why would a middle-aged man pick up a JK student. The main drama plotline was Sayu's internal issues and the romance was just a subline but the show treats it reversely. I get that to sell a product you need a hook but it's a social issue that is still prevalent without a definite solution.

Simply it just feels cheap as the show puts romance first and it's not even interesting.

LustKamisama said:
I called it dishonest because the show's attempt to tackle the runaway issue seems to be low on the priority list it almost seems like baiting. Runaway teens is a complex issue that isn't exclusive to Japan and when you mix prostitution in it became a much more sensitive topic. The show spent more time between Yoshida and Sayu's daily life and other characters "showering love" for Sayu than actually have them face the issue.

Another issue is the role of Yaguchi, I mean the character is should be the villain of this kind of story since it acts as a foil to Yoshida where Yaguchi did sleep with her and taken advantage of JK students. Instead, the narrative decides to attempt to redeem this guy and paint the family issue as the villain, horribly executed as well. All these points just seem to me the show is being disingenuous on the addition of runaways, I don't have a problem with the romance but masking it with drama from a serious social issue is what's upsetting about this show.



The point in question isn't the crime or the romance but rather the intent on the implementation. The show has multiple flaws in its narrative where I have pointed out in other posts such as the redemption of the Yaguchi. Sure each person is entitled to their opinion but it should be noted that the runaway issue just wasn't given enough attention when compared to other aspects of the show. Being interest in the initial hook of the social issue I can't help but find the portrayal of runaway is there to serve the romance rather the other way around.

_Ako_ said:
uhhh isnt 17 yo still considered minor in JP? And as I remember correctly, as 27 yo you cant date 17 yos because that's considered a crime I think.... Or... if the author wants her to be 20, then MC is pretty much grooming her...

HatTrickPatrick said:

(I marked this as a spoiler because we're starting to bring up specific characters/events from Higehiro)



Therefore, I don't really think this anime was dishonest in its delivery. Higehiro didn't promise anything. People just expected things.

HatTrickPatrick said:
What I gleaned from this analysis is that Japan is just like everywhere else. There are people who try to interpolate real life into a work of fiction (or they just delude themselves into thinking what's on their TV/computer screen is reality in the first place), and there are people who watch it as a story being told with no further indictment.

While we're at it...

- Breaking Bad is a story about a guy cooking meth.
If you're familiar with the show, you MIGHT try to say, "he's cooking meth as a means to provide for his family because he's gonna die of cancer which makes it OK." Okay, the point being made here is there's no good reason to commit a crime, right?

- NCIS' lead character murdered a guy.
You might try to say, "he shot that guy because that guy murdered his wife and daughter"... same issue - no good reason to commit a crime right? (And in fact, the show itself dealt with this "crime" and the ruling was it was a "just killing"...)

- Dexter is a serial killer.
You might try to say, "he's a serial killer that kills murderers and rapists"... again, same issue - no good reason.

There are countless other examples. Why is Higehiro different? None of the characters I mentioned are portrayed as "evil"? By that logic, damn near every show on television worldwide not airing on Nickelodeon or geared toward 3 year olds learning to count on their fingers should meet this same controversy.

_Ako_ said:


if you're grooming someone, you wont have fuck her because you know you're going to jail.

LustKamisama said:


I don't agree with this stance, an audience is entitled to their expectation. The meta of LN market is the long and exaggerated title to spike interests so the author knows full well he's is using the social issue as a punch line for sales. It doesn't have to solve the issue it just has to handle it with enough attention. The first half of the story is setting up the nuance in Yoshida's situation as he is in goodwill trying her even with the controversial decision he made to take her in. Later it kinda just forgot about it and just focused on the romance element between the two. Also, the reasoning of Sayu's home life handled so horribly wrong that it put the whole narrative in an awkward position.

Series like Redo of Healer, KoiKimo, or even MT was pretty clear cut with how it set up its premise and what it's selling despite all the controversies. Hige was too ambitious and I can't help but think it might just be romanizing grown man falling in love with high school girls and nothing more than that. I'm just not a fan of cheap marketing baits. I will give the author some credit since jamming 5 vols into one 1 season did affect the pacing but I wouldn't bank on it changing the story much.

HatTrickPatrick said:
The expectation people had of Higehiro seemed to be a real-world commentary that would mark the beginning of real-world change, or at least give them something to point to in their pseudoactivism and that's the part that bugs me.

HatTrickPatrick said:


I don't disagree at all that you're entitled to expect things, but if those expectations are not met, the most you're entitled to beyond that is disappointment. The expectation people had of Higehiro seemed to be a real-world commentary that would mark the beginning of real-world change, or at least give them something to point to in their pseudoactivism and that's the part that bugs me. Normally, if a show didn't meet your expectations, you'd leave it a bad review with some disparaging comments. A vocal minority treating it like it shouldn't even be allowed to be on air in the first place is a step beyond that.

LustKamisama said:


My stance isn’t censorship and I don’t support it in any media. I’m just comparing Koikimo and Hige as I see a lot people saying Hige is better at portraying age-gap, which I disagree in as these two basically is the same thing. Hige was a much bigger disappointment because I believe the narrative was done in bad faith where at least Koikimo was honest.

HatTrickPatrick said:


I don't think the nature of the show portraying the crime is a valid distinction here. "Poorly written soap opera" is a matter of viewer enjoyment, which is not something any two people have the same experience with. In my opinion, many NCIS episodes are poorly written soap operas. Many people would disagree with me.

Whether a show deals with serious social issues or not, whether it's a cartoon or a police procedural, and regardless of how it implements them, it can portray a crime being committed. It's either acceptable, unacceptable, or there's a line in the sand that people don't have the right to draw based on their opinion of it, let alone be outraged about it being crossed. I am unappreciative of the expectation of a double standard.

This includes but is not limited to:
-gender/racial equality
-sexual orientation, homophobia
-sexual assault
- pedophilia, lolicon/shotacon, incest, teenage-adult relationships