Attack on Titan
ShanAsuna said: whatever pieck said is correct, she understands their situation and she wants to free all the eldians but the most important thing is why she should trust eren, his close friends also don't trust him and call him piece of shit. Eren has the power of rumbling and can destroy the world including the people pieck cares for, she trust&cares for her comrades. So from their perspective its neccessary to eliminate eren. And their family lives in marley, they should be loyal.Honestly, I'm disappointed with the last couple of episodes of AoT: the "not really" final season. I feel that Isayama is sacrificing his characters' internal logic (the Eldian Marleyan characters, mostly) just to allow him to do his political/philosophical exposition and to create conflict, because he needs the kyojins to fight each other. There is no coherent explanation as to why not just Gabi, but also Pieck, Gailliard and every other Eldian Marleyan would not even be slightly swayed by what Zeke and Eren is offering. You have people like Yelena, people conquered by Marley defecting, but not the Eldian Marleyans who're basically treated like lesser humans? The lapse in logic in these characters is a borderline plot hole for me. When Pieck shouted her justification that she doesn't trust Marley but she'll trust her comrades, I just threw up my hands and gave up. How is that a justification for staying loyal to Marley? Pieck, her comrades, her family and all their descendants are basically tools of war or lesser humans to Marley. Once their usefulness is used up, Marley will toss 'em like a used napkin. She reasoned this out herself and STILL didn't defect? *sigh* So after the final episode, I dropped the rating from 9 to 8. I really feel like dropping it further to 7... the only thing holding me back is MAPPA's execution of the attack on Liberio. |
| Pieck has been loyal to Marley her whole life, and so have her friends and comrades. She is brainwashed to be loyal to Marley, and she also wouldn't want to switch up at that very moment and risk endangering her father, whom she joined the Marleyan warriors to save |
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Viriathus said: This actually is my favorite scene. Well, they dont betray Marley because its their homeland, their families are there, despite the racism they suffer, there is also good people in there that treat them as humans also. Would compare it to USA in the 30s.The world is not black and white, but complex and grey. Not to mention, they all are fed with propaganda since they are born and they feel its their "fault" for what happened. Just like she explained in the end, she doesnt believe in Marley but she believes in her comrades. To me its actually the best season, each scene had so much tension, and i actually loved the political stuff. Well to be is actually quite easy to understand their reasons and motives, specially looking at the real world. And what she said, kinda explains everything in a very simple yet deep way. Anyway each their own, i still love it. |
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| I was having the same thought as you at first but after I watched the whole final season, then I realized it was the whole brainwash things. Previous episode of Zeke is clearly showing the brainwas thing and Zeke is not the same young generation as Reiner/Pieck's group, so younger generation obviously has no idea about older generation like Zeke as well. But then another plothole about this brainwash was the previous Titan holder's memories. You can cleary see that Eren and Armin has been showing sight of being controlled by the memories and yet the others aren't. If you want to say it was brainwash on Reiner's generation but it doesn't make sense here. 2000 years worth of memories being bullied by Maleyan cannot win against the brainwash of 20 something years? Bullshit. Any genre related to "time trave' plot is stupidly full of flawed, I wonder why. |
aLotQuestion_Mar 29, 2021 7:20 PM
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Usurper-sama said: THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^For someone who rated both seasons of Code geass a 10,your argument seems pretty hypocritical. I am not debating your thoughts on the story and plot of AoT, but its baffling how you can overlook many cheap plot twists in Code Geass, but can't understand a simple dilemma of a soldier who needs to protect her family and has been brainwashed since childhood. AoT might not be the masterpiece people say it is, but your argument is pretty weak. |
aLotQuestion_ said: I'm not going to say much because it would spoil major shit in part 2, but understand that almost everything you just said is completely incorrect. Almost all of it. I'd suggest rewatching the entirety of Season 3 and 4 and actually pay attention to anything that correlates to that shit.I was having the same thought as you at first but after I watched the whole final season, then I realized it was the whole brainwash things. Previous episode of Zeke is clearly showing the brainwas thing and Zeke is not the same young generation as Reiner/Pieck's group, so younger generation obviously has no idea about older generation like Zeke as well. But then another plothole about this brainwash was the previous Titan holder's memories. You can cleary see that Eren and Armin has been showing sight of being controlled by the memories and yet the others aren't. If you want to say it was brainwash on Reiner's generation but it doesn't make sense here. 2000 years worth of memories being bullied by Maleyan cannot win against the brainwash of 20 something years? Bullshit. Any genre related to "time trave' plot is stupidly full of flawed, I wonder why. All I'll say is, are you sure Eren is being controlled? Are you certain Armin is too? Any shifter can view the most recent holder's memory, ONLY one, nothing more. They can't see multiple generations. Eren, on the other hand can. He has the Attack Titan which has the ability to not only see multiple generations of previous holder's memories, but he can also see the future. For instance, Kruger was able to see a future where Eren needs to protect Armin and Mikasa. He said this to Grisha prior to giving him the shifter power. Wouldn't that mean Kruger was the one being controlled? Wouldn't that mean Grisha was the one being controlled since he ended up giving the power to Eren like Kruger wanted? If they both gave their power up so Eren could have it, who's really the one in control? Think about these questions when part 2 releases, because all of it will be answered within the first 5 or so episodes. That's all I'll say. Regardless, there are no plot holes in this situation, everything in regard to the memories makes sense if you genuinely pay attention to it. On another note, my bad if I came off rude, I'm hella tired rn lmao. |
Usurper-sama said: For someone who rated both seasons of Code geass a 10,your argument seems pretty hypocritical. I am not debating your thoughts on the story and plot of AoT, but its baffling how you can overlook many cheap plot twists in Code Geass, but can't understand a simple dilemma of a soldier who needs to protect her family and has been brainwashed since childhood. AoT might not be the masterpiece people say it is, but your argument is pretty weak. It's obvious op just trolling if you read all his reply to others. |
brayka said: Just to clear this up for you, it's been confirmed since Season 3 part 2 that Eren is the ONLY shifter that can see multiple predecessor's memories. That is a power that is unique to the Attack Titan and no others. This is why Armin is ONLY influenced by Bertolt's memories as that's how far as he can see into the Colossal Titan's past. It's the same thing with Galliard as he's only able to see Ymir's memories, and not his brother's, the guy who was before Ymir.aLotQuestion_ said: If you want to say it was brainwash on Reiner's generation but it doesn't make sense here. 2000 years worth of memories being bullied by Maleyan cannot win against the brainwash of 20 something years? Bullshit. Any genre related to "time trave' plot is stupidly full of flawed, I wonder why. There are 2000 years of memories of ELDIAN bullying marley, not the other way around. Marley started to oppress eldia only 100 years ago so if they even get the memories of all the other titan shifters then is easy to see how 2000 years of atrocities they did can win against 100 years of being bullied by marley since it only reinforces the brainwash idea that they have to atone for the sins of their ancestors. That is if we asume that they have access to the memories from all the generations, but at least for the case of eren it does not seem like they are able to get other memories besides the one from their predecessor. Also, there is a huge difference between brainwashing and being influenced by memories. One can still maintain their true morals even if they have new memories from someone else. Memories are simply experiences. Experiences can shape someone, but it's not as effective when someone already had their own beliefs and experiences prior to gaining new ones. Hope that makes sense, it's kinda hard to explain. |
neranyxx said: This guy went through a shit ton of effort just to troll then LMAO. A good troll wouldn't even reply hahaUsurper-sama said: For someone who rated both seasons of Code geass a 10,your argument seems pretty hypocritical. I am not debating your thoughts on the story and plot of AoT, but its baffling how you can overlook many cheap plot twists in Code Geass, but can't understand a simple dilemma of a soldier who needs to protect her family and has been brainwashed since childhood. AoT might not be the masterpiece people say it is, but your argument is pretty weak. It's obvious op just trolling if you read all his reply to others. |
hayzi said: This guy went through a shit ton of effort just to troll then LMAO. A good troll wouldn't even reply haha People in here give him a shit ton of fact and explanations about what he think a plot holes, but he denied it in every post he reply and counter it with the same argument that he think justify the plot holes he found. In the end he's just want to lower the score. Yeah you right, he's a troller with effort. |
| I too have swayed between 7 or 8. the shitty animation, the ugly character design, why everyone look so ugly after 3 years... I find the eddy Eren very cringy. And I don't know how the euthanasia plan is the best outcome. It's basically a slow genocide and it's ridiculous that everyone seems okay with it. The whole season seems a bit illogical. |
neranyxx said: hayzi said: This guy went through a shit ton of effort just to troll then LMAO. A good troll wouldn't even reply haha People in here give him a shit ton of fact and explanations about what he think a plot holes, but he denied it in every post he reply and counter it with the same argument that he think justify the plot holes he found. In the end he's just want to lower the score. Yeah you right, he's a troller with effort. There are so many wrong assumptions here I don't know where to start... 1. I'm female, I am no guy 2. It wasn't a troll, I have been busy and I know this thread is exploding because ,well, AoT fans can be a little extreme.. to put it lightly, and I just didn't have time to respond to all these posts. 3. It's been a while since I last watched Code Geass, but if you want to talk about the "cheap tricks" there, you're welcome to start a thread in the Code Geass forum. Bringing in whatever anime I rated highly here just looks like "what aboutism" - basically the "I'm-going-to-shit-on-your-favorite-anime-to-delegitimise-whatever-critique-you-have-on-MY-favorite-anime"... people do this a lot here, I don't wanna subscribe to it |
ShanAsunaMar 31, 2021 8:03 AM
hayzi said: brayka said: Just to clear this up for you, it's been confirmed since Season 3 part 2 that Eren is the ONLY shifter that can see multiple predecessor's memories. That is a power that is unique to the Attack Titan and no others. This is why Armin is ONLY influenced by Bertolt's memories as that's how far as he can see into the Colossal Titan's past. It's the same thing with Galliard as he's only able to see Ymir's memories, and not his brother's, the guy who was before Ymir.There are 2000 years of memories of ELDIAN bullying marley, not the other way around. Marley started to oppress eldia only 100 years ago so if they even get the memories of all the other titan shifters then is easy to see how 2000 years of atrocities they did can win against 100 years of being bullied by marley since it only reinforces the brainwash idea that they have to atone for the sins of their ancestors. That is if we asume that they have access to the memories from all the generations, but at least for the case of eren it does not seem like they are able to get other memories besides the one from their predecessor. Also, there is a huge difference between brainwashing and being influenced by memories. One can still maintain their true morals even if they have new memories from someone else. Memories are simply experiences. Experiences can shape someone, but it's not as effective when someone already had their own beliefs and experiences prior to gaining new ones. Hope that makes sense, it's kinda hard to explain. Nope, Eren is not the only shifter that inherits memories. I clearly remember a dialogue between Reiner and Gailliard talking about what Gailliard saw in Ymir's memories after he inherited her Jaw Titan. |
ShanAsuna said: Its almost like you didn't read what I typed lmaohayzi said: Just to clear this up for you, it's been confirmed since Season 3 part 2 that Eren is the ONLY shifter that can see multiple predecessor's memories. That is a power that is unique to the Attack Titan and no others. This is why Armin is ONLY influenced by Bertolt's memories as that's how far as he can see into the Colossal Titan's past. It's the same thing with Galliard as he's only able to see Ymir's memories, and not his brother's, the guy who was before Ymir. Also, there is a huge difference between brainwashing and being influenced by memories. One can still maintain their true morals even if they have new memories from someone else. Memories are simply experiences. Experiences can shape someone, but it's not as effective when someone already had their own beliefs and experiences prior to gaining new ones. Hope that makes sense, it's kinda hard to explain. Nope, Eren is not the only shifter that inherits memories. I clearly remember a dialogue between Reiner and Gailliard talking about what Gailliard saw in Ymir's memories after he inherited her Jaw Titan. |
hayzi said: ShanAsuna said: Its almost like you didn't read what I typed lmaoNope, Eren is not the only shifter that inherits memories. I clearly remember a dialogue between Reiner and Gailliard talking about what Gailliard saw in Ymir's memories after he inherited her Jaw Titan. Had a busy day, speedreading and tiredness - not a good mix. |
ShanAsuna said: All good, I've been awake for like 24 hours so I feel it lmaohayzi said: Its almost like you didn't read what I typed lmao Had a busy day, speedreading and tiredness - not a good mix. |
hayzi said: All good, I've been awake for like 24 hours so I feel it lmao 24 hours? I'm too old for that shit.. |
ShanAsuna said: I am too, but I fucked up my sleep schedule, so I'm resetting the torturous way, sigh lmaohayzi said: All good, I've been awake for like 24 hours so I feel it lmao 24 hours? I'm too old for that shit.. |
hayzi said: I am too, but I fucked up my sleep schedule, so I'm resetting the torturous way, sigh lmao Ughhhhh bad bad... I should hit the sack soon myself. |
Even Zeke's character is a little hard to believe... you sold out your parents to be turned into kyojins because ... you felt pressured? Because they were too busy to play catch with you? Wow... You clearly can't understand emotions. He was a CHILD. Children view even the smallest things as a big problem and they need a lot of attention, you seriously want a child to act reasonable? Even though what he did was justifiable and understandable. But the thought to sell his parents didn't even cross his mind, it was brought up by an ADULT, he manipulated him to do what he did and children are of course easily manipulated. And not everyone will be able to think exactly how you think of something, just because it clearly makes sense to you and is the right thing to do, but it wasn't for those honorary Marleyans. And if you are scared, fear will be responsible of all of your actions. Come to think of it, Zeke wasn't really driven by fear he is not even afraid of death and is ready to die any moment and he doesn't really have someone he absolutely must protect so that's why he is different. And don't forget they were brainwashed their whole life they really can't think clearly and make the best decisions. |
Ilul said: ShanAsuna said: yeah it's just his style, he tends to let us, the viewer, to observe thing ourselves, but it will makes sense once we able to connect the dots all together.Hmmm.. yea this Magath reasoning sounds more plausible. I guess the anime just ended on a bad note, where Pieck's statement just doesn't make sense (without the explanation about her trust in Magath and Magath's plan to make a better world for the Eldians). i suggest that you read the manga though, the anime is disappointing to me, the direction, narrative and rearranging are all done so badly. the anime takes away so many things the manga has to offer feel free to ask sorry for bad english I read the manga but not the whole thing... I started reading when season 1 ended because I wanted to find out the mystery behind the titans, but it got dragged out for too long so I dropped it... then I started reading again when it got to the Marley arc and now I'm waiting for the ending like everyone else. I hope Isayama doesn't screw it up.... |
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