| Probably stylistic reasons. It's not uncommon in Japanese for words that are usually written in a certain alphabet to suddenly be written a different one. |
 What's the difference? |
| Sometimes it's for emphasis. Sometimes it's to highlight wordplay. Sometimes it's just because the author likes one rendition of a word over another. |
 This glorious signature image was created by @Mayumi! I am the Arbiter of Absolute Truth, and here is my wisdom: "Anime was always influenced by the West. This is not news. Shoujo is the superior genre primarily aimed at young people. Harem/isekai are lazy genres that refuse any meaningful innovation. There is no 'Golden Age.' There will always be top-shelf anime. You should be watching Carole & Tuesday." |
PurpleSmoke4 said: Zelkiiro said: Sometimes it's for emphasis. Sometimes it's to highlight wordplay. Sometimes it's just because the author likes one rendition of a word over another. 1. What do you mean highlight wordplay? 2.the yuri genre/lesbianism is always written in kanji and not katakana. Like yuri/the word only means lesbian when you use kanji and when using katakana, it only refers to the flower. So I wanted to ask, wouldn't it be harder to make that conclusion/implication using katakana or the lesbian association wouldn't be thought of? The guy who made the series is a weird guy, so it could be any number of reasons. You'd have to ask him. |
This glorious signature image was created by @Mayumi! I am the Arbiter of Absolute Truth, and here is my wisdom: "Anime was always influenced by the West. This is not news. Shoujo is the superior genre primarily aimed at young people. Harem/isekai are lazy genres that refuse any meaningful innovation. There is no 'Golden Age.' There will always be top-shelf anime. You should be watching Carole & Tuesday." |
| What makes you think yuri means exclusively yuri genre in that title? It's most likely just a wordplay associated with the names of two main characters. So it's written in katakana to emphasize on the ambiguity of the meaning. |
| Katakana is used in manga when someone has a strange accent. In this case, it's symbolism for yuri being forbidden in that universe. |
  |
PurpleSmoke4 said: Ten said: What makes you think yuri means exclusively yuri genre in that title? It's most likely just a wordplay associated with the names of two main characters. So it's written in katakana to emphasize on the ambiguity of the meaning. 1. What do you mean by wordplay on their names and emphasize how? I assume cuz the series is a yuri 2. I'll ask this again: the yuri genre/lesbianism is always written in kanji and not katakana. Like yuri/the word only means lesbian when you use kanji and when using katakana, it only refers to the flower. So I wanted to ask, wouldn't it be harder to make that conclusion/implication using katakana or the lesbian association wouldn't be thought of? They very actively use lilies (the flower) visually and often as a not subtle metaphor so it is an emphasis on the word play since it also focuses on lesbian relationships. It's a word play that's stronger and makes more sense after actually watching the series. |
PurpleSmoke4 said: GamerDLM said: They very actively use lilies (the flower) visually so it is an emphasis on the word play since it also focuses on lesbian relationships. It's a word play that's stronger and makes more sense after actually watching the series. 1. What do you mean by wordplay? Ok, but it doesn't answer this question the yuri genre/lesbianism is always written in kanji and not katakana. Like yuri/the word only means lesbian when you use kanji and when using katakana, it only refers to the flower. So I wanted to ask, wouldn't it be harder to make that conclusion/implication using katakana or the lesbian association wouldn't be thought of? The Kanji for yuri also means flowers as well, so couldn't they have used kanji as well? The Japanese word for lily (again a strong visual metaphor they very actively use in the show) is Yuri, it's used in girlxgirl situations and the characters have Yuri in their name. You're just repeating the same thing and not applying provided information into your question. Your entire question is largely based on the premise that people will understand the association without watching the series which is generally the opposite goal of word play in titles. The idea of using Katakana is to be ambiguous, it could be a reference to any of those 3 factors (flowers, lesbians, or names), Kanji locks it down to a single phrase/context and is no longer word play at that point. |
GamerDLM said: The idea of using Katakana is to be ambiguous, it could be a reference to any of those 3 factors (flowers, lesbians, or names), Kanji locks it down to a single phrase/context and is no longer word play at that point. $5 says he copy-pastes the same question in response. |
This glorious signature image was created by @Mayumi! I am the Arbiter of Absolute Truth, and here is my wisdom: "Anime was always influenced by the West. This is not news. Shoujo is the superior genre primarily aimed at young people. Harem/isekai are lazy genres that refuse any meaningful innovation. There is no 'Golden Age.' There will always be top-shelf anime. You should be watching Carole & Tuesday." |
PurpleSmoke4 said: 1. Yes I know lily = yuri and its used in girl x girl, but as I said, only when using kanji. Well, actually, you should read this more carefully https://jisho.org/word/百合 |
PurpleSmoke4 said: GamerDLM said: The Japanese word for lily (again a strong visual metaphor they very actively use in the show) is Yuri, it's used in girlxgirl situations and the characters have Yuri in their name. You're just repeating the same thing and not applying provided information into your question. Your entire question is largely based on the premise that people will understand the association without watching the series which is generally the opposite goal of word play in titles. The idea of using Katakana is to be ambiguous, it could be a reference to any of those 3 factors (flowers, lesbians, or names), Kanji locks it down to a single phrase/context and is no longer word play at that point. A few things 1. Yes I know lily = yuri and its used in girl x girl, but as I said, only when using kanji. Sorry, still asking as I'm still not understanding this On your last point, as I said before, yuri only means lesbians when you use kanji. As I said before, the kanji for yuri can mean lesbian or the flower. So couldn't kanji be used in this context as a wordplay and be ambigious as kanji could mean/refer to both? So is katakana used to like emphasize in this case then? Again, sorry for asking. I'm just honestly confused on this part The notion that it only means those when using Kanji is generally wrong to start. Kanji functionally is only to discern the differences between homophones to avoid confusion in writing. But Katakana and Hiragana both serve the same focus of spelling out a phrase so people can read it. Katakana is generally used to emphasize syllables especially when dealing with foreign terms and names (which is also why I listed names as a notable factor because the bears in the show are considered invaders and all have Yuri included in their name). You also ignored the part where I said it's to be purposefully ambiguous as is often used in the show, again which would require you to watch the show to understand the word play which you have not countered as a point. |
PurpleSmoke4 said: GamerDLM said: The notion that it only means those when using Kanji is generally wrong to start. Kanji functionally is only to discern the differences between homophones to avoid confusion in writing. But Katakana and Hiragana both serve the same focus of spelling out a phrase so people can read it. Katakana is generally used to emphasize syllables especially when dealing with foreign terms and names (which is also why I listed names as a notable factor because the bears in the show are considered invaders and all have Yuri included in their name). You also ignored the part where I said it's to be purposefully ambiguous as is often used in the show, again which would require you to watch the show to understand the word play which you have not countered as a point. https://www.reddit.com/r/LearnJapanese/comments/e9e4zk/when_writing_the_yuri_genre_is_it_written_in/ https://www.reddit.com/r/LearnJapanese/comments/dyqp2a/what_are_the_different_ways_to_write_lillies_in/ I mean the genre is only written in kanji and I've been told that lesbian love is only associated with the kanji as I've been told by those who know japanese No, I didn't ignore that part. That's why I was asked if kanji can be ambiguous too. I'm not countering, just asking Kanji inherently is designed to not be ambiguous that's entirely the opposite of its function. |
PurpleSmoke4 said: I know that the yuri kanji also means the flower. I mean here https://www.reddit.com/r/LearnJapanese/comments/e9e4zk/when_writing_the_yuri_genre_is_it_written_in/ https://www.reddit.com/r/LearnJapanese/comments/dyqp2a/what_are_the_different_ways_to_write_lillies_in/ You are referencing reddit posts while the dictionary clearly states that genre yuri Slang, Only applies to ゆり, Only applies to ユリ. That's the opposite of your statement. |
PurpleSmoke4 said: GamerDLM said: Kanji inherently is designed to not be ambiguous that's entirely the opposite of its function. Really? A japanese person told me kanji usually removes ambiguity, but it can be in this case, because the kanji for lily and lesbian love are the same. Which is what I asking Yes the Japanese person is correct Kanji removes ambiguity, so not writing in Kanji would mean the phrase is purposefully ambiguous, that's literally the answer to your question and now you're just overthinking it. |
PurpleSmoke4 said: GamerDLM said: Yes the Japanese person is correct Kanji removes ambiguity, so not writing in Kanji would mean the phrase is purposefully ambiguous, that's literally the answer to your question and now you're just overthinking it. Sorry, overthinking is my habit. No, let me elaborate. As I said, they told me that in this case, Kanji is STILL ambiguous because the kanji for the lily flower and lesbian fiction are the same. So in this situation, I was asking, if kanji can be used to be ambiguous , is there any reason to use katakana aside from the names as you mentioned or emphasis They want the word to be ambiguous because of its usage in the show (again the emphasis on word play). Kanji = Not ambiguous. You heard it directly from a Japanese person that is the case. You have to completely disassociate yourself from the idea that Kanji can be ambiguous because it is wrong since it is designed not to be or else there will be no end to this question. If the title removed ambiguity then the image of lilies prevalent throughout the show will not be metaphorical it will be literal. |
PurpleSmoke4 said: GamerDLM said: They want the word to be ambiguous because of its usage in the show (again the emphasis on word play). Kanji = Not ambiguous. You heard it directly from a Japanese person that is the case. You have to completely disassociate yourself from the idea that Kanji can be ambiguous because it is wrong since it is designed not to be or else there will be no end to this question. I'm sorry for asking this again but I can't dissoassciate myself but you're not addressing that the japanese person told me that in this situation, Kanji is still ambigious because the kanji for lily and lesbian are the same and it can refer to either one . A japanese person told me this themselves, so are they wrong or what? And I ask/confused on katakana as I mentioned, the genre is written/referred with kanji as mentioned in the post above and what japanese speakers have told me I was wondering, are you japanese as well Except that's why you have to generally apply context in writing and in this case you have to apply the context of a show. Kanji removes ambiguity in 2 parts: it ties the sounds to a specific character that has a very limited range of meanings, the context in which it is then used narrows down that meaning to a single usage. You're focusing exclusively on step 1 and ignoring step 2 by ignoring the context of the show. They want it to be ambiguous because they use multiple forms in the context of the show. To reference that reddit post the reason the kanji for yuri works as a tag on pixiv to refer to lesbian images is because it is exclusively focused on drawings of people, there's no ambiguity. The basis for the magazine title (in terms of etymology) is a reference to a prior publication that used flowers as branding until it became slang. Specifically Barazoku (rose tribe) was the name of a magazine title featuring homosexual men and they named their female readers yurizoku (or lily tribe). Which then went on to be a popular branding tool to reference flowers in romantic stories. But the slang usage (as was provided in the dictionary link the other person gave you) is often written with katakana specifically. I'm not Japanese but I've spent a couple years formally studying it. |
PurpleSmoke4 said: GamerDLM said: Except that's why you have to generally apply context in writing and in this case you have to apply the context of a show. Kanji removes ambiguity in 2 parts: it ties the sounds to a specific character that has a very limited range of meanings, the context in which it is then used narrows down that meaning to a single usage. You're focusing exclusively on step 1 and ignoring step 2 by ignoring the context of the show. They want it to be ambiguous because they use multiple forms in the context of the show. To reference that reddit post the reason the kanji for yuri works as a tag on pixiv to refer to lesbian images is because it is exclusively focused on drawings of people, there's no ambiguity. The basis for the magazine title (in terms of etymology) is a reference to a prior publication that used flowers as branding until it became slang. Specifically Barazoku (rose tribe) was the name of a magazine title featuring homosexual men and they named their female readers yurizoku (or lily tribe). Which then went on to be a popular branding tool to reference flowers in romantic stories. But the slang usage (as was provided in the dictionary link the other person gave you) is often written with katakana specifically. I'm not Japanese but I've spent a couple years formally studying it. 1. What do you mean slang is often used with katakana? I've been told that yuri slang is always written in kanji. Like for example, if you google the katakana, you get the flower while if you google the kanji, you get the flower and the genre and I myself haven't seen it used it katakana to mean girls love. I tried searching in google and yahoo using katakana but it corrects me to kanji Those two reddit post don't just use pixiv, here is the other one https://www.reddit.com/r/LearnJapanese/comments/dyqp2a/what_are_the_different_ways_to_write_lillies_in/ 2. On that note, I had a question about ambiguity. So for example, if I wanted to merely hint/imply a character was gay by saying they like lilies because they are symbol of girls love, how would I write saying they like "yuri no hana" Would I use katakana or kanji for yuri no hana? According to that link katakana for lilies is only really used in scientific references which you wouldn't generally associate with an anime title thus adding to the ambiguous nature. They don't state anything detracting from the idea of katakana being used for the slang phrase and even go on to state that they've rarely read anything about the genre usage and shouldn't be used as a reference on that front. The other user Ten in this thread gave you a link to a Japanese dictionary site that said katakana for yuri in the slang sense is often written in katakana. For your second note because of the context you wrote it's explicitly referencing the species of flower, which would be the scientific term, meaning you would write yuri in katakana. If you wanted to use the kanji you would have to write a context omitting "no hana" because you're using it as a possessive to name the type of flower instead of generally referencing a flower. |
| Could be many reasons. In children books they often write animal names in katakana instead of hiragana or kanji. |
 |
PurpleSmoke4 said: GamerDLM said: According to that link katakana for lilies is only really used in scientific references which you wouldn't generally associate with an anime title thus adding to the ambiguous nature. They don't state anything detracting from the idea of katakana being used for the slang phrase and even go on to state that they've rarely read anything about the genre usage and shouldn't be used as a reference on that front. The other user Ten in this thread gave you a link to a Japanese dictionary site that said katakana for yuri in the slang sense is often written in katakana. For your second note because of the context you wrote it's explicitly referencing the species of flower, which would be the scientific term, meaning you would write yuri in katakana. If you wanted to use the kanji you would have to write a context omitting "no hana" because you're using it as a possessive to name the type of flower instead of generally referencing a flower. 1. Again, I've googled and have not seen yuri slang written in katakana and not sure the dictionary was saying that. Have you seen it as others in the link have said it is written in kanji and what other japanese have told me? 2. Could I use the kanji to write the flower or refer to it as a species? What do you mean by possessive? 2.5 On that side, if I wanted to refer to butterflies as a species, would I use kanji or katakana? 3. If I wanted to make a stronger/clearer lesbian implication, I would use kanji cuz its the same as the genre , correct? 4. With how japanese, would saying someone likes yuri no hana in katakana even be a good way at implying it I was asking cuz I was reading a manga series where a characters favorite things are said to be the lily flower-written like yuri no hana in katakana and usually favorite things reference a character trait and some think the author is using that to hint she's gay cuz of the flower-lesbian thing However, does the author using katakana make lesbianism unlikely http://otegaru-info.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/T-Tit-Ir-co-Ron-ult_page-0003-e1571668755507-349x530.jpg 1. The dictionary explicitly stated it could be written in katakana. 2. No in that context you should not write it in kanji because it is referencing the species so it falls under the realm of foreign/scientific terms that generally use katakana. The particle "no" is a possessive. If a sentence is structured as X no Y it means trait or person X takes possession of object Y. In this context Lily is the trait taking possession of object flower so it's identifying the object of flower by species. 2.5 Again it depends on context but if you're referring to them in a formal scientific sense you'd use katakana. If it's casual conversation the situation would generally lean more towards kanji. 3. If you want to remove all ambiguity generally go with Kanji. 4. No because with the lack of context and the general nature of flowers (specifically the language of flowers having different meanings or being associated with different traits is much more commonly referenced in Japan/anime) could appeal to the character. So just lilies by themselves could mean anything from the character being pure or innocent to being prideful or wealthy (depending on the type of lily). So in the case of that character the more likely implication is that it leans towards innocent because she's generally a very optimistic, free spirited character and described as childish. |
PurpleSmoke4 said: GamerDLM said: 1. The dictionary explicitly stated it could be written in katakana. 2. No in that context you should not write it in kanji because it is referencing the species so it falls under the realm of foreign/scientific terms that generally use katakana. The particle "no" is a possessive. If a sentence is structured as X no Y it means trait or person X takes possession of object Y. In this context Lily is the trait taking possession of object flower so it's identifying the object of flower by species. 2.5 Again it depends on context but if you're referring to them in a formal scientific sense you'd use katakana. If it's casual conversation the situation would generally lean more towards kanji. 3. If you want to remove all ambiguity generally go with Kanji. 4. No because with the lack of context and the general nature of flowers (specifically the language of flowers having different meanings or being associated with different traits is much more commonly referenced in Japan/anime) could appeal to the character. So just lilies by themselves could mean anything from the character being pure or innocent to being prideful or wealthy (depending on the type of lily). So in the case of that character the more likely implication is that it leans towards innocent because she's generally a very optimistic, free spirited character and described as childish. 1. The reason why some think lilies is a hint cuz she has a friend likes cute things and thinks her friend is the cutest in the galaxy: 親友の有弓には「銀河一かわいい」と非常に愛でられている。 https://dic.pixiv.net/a/%E6%B3%A2%E5%8B%95%E3%81%AD%E3%81%98%E3%82%8C#h2_1 So what do you think of think? Does this add more context or make it sound like a hint? Does it sound like her friend likes her in that way or is it just saying she admires or is fond of her because I also know in a japanese context, its not uncommon for girls to call each other cute On the other hand, she is also described as this: 純真無垢な妖精のようだ Which do you think is more likely? Going through the wiki page the more likely meaning is as I previously stated that lilies are a focus on her innocence just as blood type often is used to reference character personalities. Can't say the chances are 0 for the subtle reference. But based on the information provided they don't go nearly into enough detail about either character. It's possible her friend in this case (Yuyu Haya) has an attraction. But due to the characters innocent nature it's likely one sided or more like a fan worship due to her status in the school. Like literally their only noted interaction in the entire series was preparing for the school festival so I would say it's a case of reading way too much into it at this point. There would be a much stronger argument for a potential relation with Tamaki than anything. |
| I think it's a stylistic choice. A lot of titles avoid using too much kanji so it looks less clunky. Or they just want to have Katakana, hiragana, and kanji all in one title. I seriously don't know though. But I do know of a lot of titles that will use katakana or hiragana instead of kanji. 'Neko' is barely EVER written in kanji. But 'Inu' always is...(probably because it's not a complicated one.) |
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PurpleSmoke4 said: GamerDLM said: Going through the wiki page the more likely meaning is as I previously stated that lilies are a focus on her innocence just as blood type often is used to reference character personalities. Can't say the chances are 0 for the subtle reference. But based on the information provided they don't go nearly into enough detail about either character. It's possible her friend in this case (Yuyu Haya) has an attraction. But due to the characters innocent nature it's likely one sided or more like a fan worship due to her status in the school. Like literally their only noted interaction in the entire series was preparing for the school festival so I would say it's a case of reading way too much into it at this point. There would be a much stronger argument for a potential relation with Tamaki than anything. Sorry, asking cuz I'm interested in LBGT relations in anime/shonen. A few things 1 Does the phrase I sent with what her friend said about her say in love or very fond? Again, I know it's not uncommon for japanese girls to call each other cute and it not be romantic as like for example, asui in a drama cd said Uraraka is "so cute". As well, someone said the way its worded doesn't come across as imply gay feelings and I don't think too many japanese fans think she's gay. As well, the character is said to be childish, so its also likely she finds her cute in that non-romantic sense 1.5 Why would you say chances aren't zero? Does the way its written/katakana mean unlikely? 1.9 So the yuri reference is unlikely then overall? 2. What about my butterfly example 3.Why would you say there is a stronger argument for Tamaki relation 4. On that note, the series has a trans character called tiger and in their bio, it says they went to thailand, which is saying they got a sex change: https://bokunoheroacademia.fandom.com/wiki/Yawara_Chatora/Image_Gallery?file=Volume_9_Yawara_Chatora_Profile.png#Misc and someone said Nejire liking lilies is no different than saying Tiger went to thailand to like say she's gay. So if it really wasn't different like that, then kanji would have been used, correct? I just say it's not 0 because the author could focus on that character and expand her relationship network so I never want to completely rule out any situation, but it's a highly unlikely one as of now. But comparatively she's demonstrated to be notably closer to Tamaki than Mirio and it's implied she has a great deal of trust and belief in him specifically (she also refers to him differently by comparison to Mirio). Like I said it matters more on context, if you were naming a specific breed of butterfly for example it would almost always use katakana but if you were just casually referencing seeing a butterfly it would be kanji. Except they literally went to Thailand according to the trivia section to get an operation it's not implied it's directly stated as a back story note. |
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