Polygon Pictures & their art style problem

Do you mind with Polygon Picture decision to stick to one art style across most of their anime?

Aug 16, 2017 1:18 PM

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Nov 2013

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According to your logic, Ghibli is the most lazy and uninspired anime studio. Except the Ronja anime and that one was an abomination.

And speaking of identical, as long as you don't create an outlandish movie like Mind Game, you would use a style that already exists in some way. And THAT would be boring and no fun.

To create an entirely new style is not easy.

Edit: Stop contradicting yourself. In one sentence you say, that you don't want to criticise their art style, in the next sentence you call it lazy and uninspired. Make up your mind.

TheBigGuyAug 16, 2017 1:27 PM

You're a louse, Roger Smith. - R. Dorothy Wayneright
This is my fight! No Senpai, this is our fight! - Kojou Akatsuki & Yukina Himeragi

Aug 16, 2017 8:25 PM

#52

AServant

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Maneki-Mew said:
I think Ghibli and KyoAni maybe? For KyoAni: color scheme and those typical round and cute eyes. XD

Those studio have signature style, but not identical across their anime.

TheBigGuy said:
According to your logic, Ghibli is the most lazy and uninspired anime studio. Except the Ronja anime and that one was an abomination.

And speaking of identical, as long as you don't create an outlandish movie like Mind Game, you would use a style that already exists in some way. And THAT would be boring and no fun.

To create an entirely new style is not easy.

Edit: Stop contradicting yourself. In one sentence you say, that you don't want to criticise their art style, in the next sentence you call it lazy and uninspired. Make up your mind.

Well, no. Because while Ghibli has distinct "Ghibli-ness" with their anime, they do not use identical art style for most of their anime. There's always difference like colour palette, colour filter, background design, even character design is a bit different.

Well, I am not asking for art style that has never been used by any anime for Polygon's anime, I am just asking for different art style compared to the one that they've been using.

It seems you're blinded by your hate & cannot even understand a simple, repeated meassage that I have been saying throughout the thread. I never criticized their art style. What I called "lazy & uninspiring" is the fact that they use identical art style over & over, not the art style itself.

I think we should end our discussion here. I am not interested in discussing with people who blindly defend the thing they love. I understand you love Polygon, but you should realize that criticism towards them is not an attack towards you. They, are, different. And you seem so defensive, it's funny.
Thank you for your time.

RockoDyne said:
All of the "3D anime" out there suffers from trying to replicate the movements of cheap 2D animation. I'm sure a lot of it comes down to not having the tools and manpower to animate well for a weekly production, but there are also so many attempts of clearly trying to replicate 2D animation.

The jittery animation that presents in most CG anime is indeed quite distracting. I think they should've just let the final products have their native frame rate. Because, at least from what I have heard, the jitter comes from changing the native frame rate when they animate them(I do not know the exact fps, but it's faster) to 24 fps.

EDIT: Replying a user.

AServantAug 16, 2017 8:38 PM

Aug 16, 2017 8:53 PM

#53

TheBigGuy

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Nov 2013

21384

That's the last thing, that I will say here.

1. Once again, why should they? They found a style, that works for them and they decided to stick to it. Nothing wrong with that. And like other studios before them did. Also they did use different colour palettes, backgrounds etc.

2. What hate? And I understood your message, you repeated yourself often enough.

That's nitpicking. If you say, that they shouldn't use it anymore, than you're saying that something is wrong with it. The amount of times they used an art style isn't a valid criticism.

And they didn't use it over and again, but only four times and one anime hasn't even aired yet, so you can't judge that one.

3. That's actually one thing, that we agree on. I understand, that criticism towards Polygon isn't an attack against me. Also, I wouldn't say, that I love that studio, but they're doing a very good job.

And it's not, that I'm blindly defending something. Normally, I don't say this, but you seem so offended by Polygon Picture's decisions and someone disagreeing with you, that you are funny.

You're a louse, Roger Smith. - R. Dorothy Wayneright
This is my fight! No Senpai, this is our fight! - Kojou Akatsuki & Yukina Himeragi

Aug 16, 2017 9:03 PM

#54

AServant

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TheBigGuy said:
And they didn't use it over and again, but only four times and one anime hasn't even aired yet, so you can't judge that one.

3. That's actually one thing, that we agree on. I understand, that criticism towards Polygon isn't an attack against me. Also, I wouldn't say, that I love that studio, but they're doing a very good job.

And it's not, that I'm blindly defending something. Normally, I don't say this, but you seem so offended by Polygon Picture's decisions and someone disagreeing with you, that you are funny.

You're funny & hard-headed until the end. "Only four times" out of the little amount of anime they put out(so basically most of their anime), cannot say you love something that you've been defending so aggresively, & even repeated my statement with a slight tweak. I am sure you will behave better in a discussion as you get older. Thank you again for stopping by my thread.

Aug 16, 2017 9:12 PM

#55

64BitRatchet

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Oct 2015

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Comic_Sans said:
Polygon is a shitstain on the face of anime Earth, much like Studio Pierrot and A–1 Pictures.

They need to crash and burn

How, they treat their employees well, and pay them a living wage with decent hours. I would argue that they are one of the best studios.

Aug 16, 2017 9:15 PM

#56

removed-user

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Jul 2018

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@TheServant
Come on, you could make one anime about swimmers and musicians, who are supernatural beings, but deep in their souls Chuunibyous, solving a mystery at school and it would look like more or less like one and the same anime. XD
Btw. pls give it a try lol. This thing would be awesome.

Aug 16, 2017 9:25 PM

#57

BatoKusanagi

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Nah,I'm fine with KyoAni, Ghibli, Shaft, Ufotable doing it, so...

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Aug 16, 2017 9:30 PM

#58

AServant

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Maneki-Mew said:
@TheServant
Come on, you could make one anime about swimmers and musicians, who are supernatural beings, but deep in their souls Chuunibyous, solving a mystery at school and it would look like more or less like one and the same anime. XD
Btw. pls give it a try lol. This thing would be awesome.

Not really. All of KyoAni's anime have different colour palette, different background style, even different character design(cartoonish with soft colour character for Chunibyo & realistic and toned-down colour character for Hyouka). Do they have similarities? Yes, of course. The "moe face" style that KyoAni has "perfected" is visible across their anime, but basically that's it(well, there's an exaggerated black outline when the characters moving fast to emphasize speed too). As for Polygon's style, they have same drab colour palette, same character design, same pale white skin for most of their characters, same light rendering style, etc. I mean, isn't it obvious that Polygon's anime look very similar when compared to other studios?

64BitRatchet said:
How, they treat their employees well, and pay them a living wage with decent hours. I would argue that they are one of the best studios.

I agree for the most part. Polygon is probably the best when we're talking about their animators' well being. But for their product, far from best. I hope they will improve themselves in the future. Who does not want a studio that treat their animators well & also treat the anime fans well?

BatoKusanagi said:
Nah,I'm fine with KyoAni, Ghibli, Shaft, Ufotable doing it, so...

They're different. They do not use identical art style for most of their anime. They use similar art style, but not identical like Polygon Pictures.

EDIT: Replying a user.

Aug 16, 2017 9:43 PM

#59

stereochrome

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Jan 2016

I think it's good in its own way, and it's good to try out new things be it good or bad. Even if it's bad, as long as they learn from it and keep progressing, the improvement of their animation will continue to grow

I also like how each studio have their own unique art; like kyoani with their template character design, or SHAFT with their.. you know.. art

Aug 16, 2017 10:15 PM

#60

AServant

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stereochrome said:
I think it's good in its own way, and it's good to try out new things be it good or bad. Even if it's bad, as long as they learn from it and keep progressing, the improvement of their animation will continue to grow

I also like how each studio have their own unique art; like kyoani with their template character design, or SHAFT with their.. you know.. art

You mean the it's good that they stick to an identical art style? Or the art style itself is good?

But other studios, while have distinct signature, use significantly different art style for each anime. For KyoAni, Hyouka & Haruhi have different colour palette, different highlighting for their characters, etc. For Shaft, Psychoelectric Girl & Madoka Magica have diferent character design, different colour palette, etc.

Aug 16, 2017 10:59 PM

#61

BatoKusanagi

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TheServant said:

They're different. They do not use identical art style for most of their anime. They use similar art style, but not identical like Polygon Pictures.

No, they''re not really all that different. They all have very similar style in many of their shows that are instantly recognizable as being the work of that studio. Some, like A-1, are actually totally different every time.

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Aug 16, 2017 11:10 PM

#62

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BatoKusanagi said:
No, they''re not really all that different. They all have very similar style in many of their shows that are instantly recognizable as being the work of that studio. Some, like A-1, are actually totally different every time.

But they're different enough to feel like each one of them exist in a different world/universe & we feel like it's a new world for us to discover. Compared to Polygon's ones, they're much more similar with their style across the board. Most of their anime feel like they exist in the same universe & the characters will join forces to make some kind of Avenger or something.

Aug 16, 2017 11:53 PM

#63

Comic_Sans

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64BitRatchet said:
How, they treat their employees well, and pay them a living wage with decent hours. I would argue that they are one of the best studios.

Clearly they're not paying them enough to make them deliver good products

Comic_SansAug 17, 2017 3:35 AM

Nico- said:
@Comic_Sans oh no y arnt ppl dieing i need more ppl dieing rly gud plot avansement jus liek tokyo ghoul if erbudy dies amirite

Conversations with people pinging/quoting me to argue about some old post I wrote years ago will not be entertained

Aug 17, 2017 3:32 AM

#64

gophercg

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Mar 2012

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It only seems similar when you only choose the recent dark scifi shows, and mal/anime is only part of what PP do, which doesn't explain 'laziness.'
Very colorful & smooth shaded (non cel-shaded) that posters mentioned above: Hottarake no Shima, Ronja 2014.
They make a lot of colorful Western/kids shows: Transformers -2016, Star Wars 2014, Lost in Oz 2017, Tron 2014. Most received Emmy Awards. Tron being dark with blue glows, and very long faces in cel-shading.

Both their Western & anime are well rated so I think style variation is least of their concern.
They're doing something right, and I'd rather PP gradually improve their current scifi style. Currently Sanzigen have better CG character designs/animation (especially Bubuki S2), and Orange have better cartoony/mechanical stuff (Dimension W, Active Raid, Majestic Prince).

I found Ajin characters more ugly than Sidonia, since they're more grounded, while Sidonia has androids & bear people etc. Been awhile, but background art is quite different: Sidonia overall is hard stark polygonal shading, monotone & cold colors. The mechs & star light reflect that. Ajin backgrounds, eg dark forests in bright blooming light is fairly blurry & organic, monotone in a sepia palette. It looks so different in Ajin because for a large number of scenes, they 3D scanned some real scenery & edited to fit.
Animation style also different, Sidonia has more 2d cartoony attempts, while Ajin is more refined with eye gazes, agitated faces & posture, gritty & grounded, more full of insanity.

Aug 17, 2017 4:29 AM

#65

AServant

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gophercg said:
It only seems similar when you only choose the recent dark scifi shows, and mal/anime is only part of what PP do, which doesn't explain 'laziness.'
Very colorful & smooth shaded (non cel-shaded) that posters mentioned above: Hottarake no Shima, Ronja 2014.
They make a lot of colorful Western/kids shows: Transformers -2016, Star Wars 2014, Lost in Oz 2017, Tron 2014. Most received Emmy Awards. Tron being dark with blue glows, and very long faces in cel-shading.

Both their Western & anime are well rated so I think style variation is least of their concern.
They're doing something right, and I'd rather PP gradually improve their current scifi style. Currently Sanzigen have better CG character designs/animation (especially Bubuki S2), and Orange have better cartoony/mechanical stuff (Dimension W, Active Raid, Majestic Prince).

I found Ajin characters more ugly than Sidonia, since they're more grounded, while Sidonia has androids & bear people etc. Been awhile, but background art is quite different: Sidonia overall is hard stark polygonal shading, monotone & cold colors. The mechs & star light reflect that. Ajin backgrounds, eg dark forests in bright blooming light is fairly blurry & organic, monotone in a sepia palette. It looks so different in Ajin because for a large number of scenes, they 3D scanned some real scenery & edited to fit.
Animation style also different, Sidonia has more 2d cartoony attempts, while Ajin is more refined with eye gazes, agitated faces & posture, gritty & grounded, more full of insanity.

That's my exact criticism. If you read my explanation of the topic, I specifically said that the problem is happening recently, not since the beginning of Polygon. And when a studio put out most of their series with identical art style, does not that seem lazy to you? I am not saying Polygon is lazy, but what they have been doing seems lazy. And I know about their other anime outside what's listed in MAL. My knowledge is not limited to MAL. I know how to browse the internet, thankfully.

I have said so too in the beginning, that Polygon's anime have been relatively well-received, but that's not the point. The point is not whether they're doing good enough, but the fact that they could've done better by varying their art style. And by using different art style, they could broad their audience that do not like their currently repeatedly-used art style.

It's not about whether the character design is ugly or not, that's personal preference. I know you must have noticed that Polygon's character designs have been really identical recently. It's like all of their recent anime share the same universe/exist in the same world, which is something that definitely every anime wants to avoid. Every series want to be distinct/different enough so that it's easy to remember & recognizeable.
Sidonia & Ajin have different backgrounds because of their different settings(space vs earth). As for background style, they're almost the same, especially the colour palette. I mean, you cannot deny that. Just look at this screenshot for example.

Now, for the people who have watched Sidonia & Ajin, they probably would know which scene is this from. But for those who haven't(as in they only have watched the PVs & seen posters), would they even know where this scene is from with this screenshot of background alone? Both anime have almost exactly the same style. There are differences, no doubt, but it's so minuscule.
Animation style? Could you elaborate? Because as far as I know, there's no such thing as animation style. Animation can only be either fluid/well animated or stiff/badly animated.

Aug 17, 2017 7:26 AM

#66

BatoKusanagi

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TheServant said:
But they're different enough to feel like each one of them exist in a different world/universe & we feel like it's a new world for us to discover. Compared to Polygon's ones, they're much more similar with their style across the board. Most of their anime feel like they exist in the same universe & the characters will join forces to make some kind of Avenger or something.

Well, if I could say the same thing about K-On!, Tamako Market and Phantom World, but I don't because that's KyoAni's thing and they do it well.
Also, I refuse to believe that anyone with better eye sight than Mr Magoo wouldn't be able to tell, say, Ajin and Sidonia apart. Sidonia and Blame are a different story as their both adapted from manga by the same author.

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Aug 17, 2017 8:05 AM

#67

yodsanklai

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Nov 2013

TheServant said:

Huh? Ronja is recent, Lost in Oz is recent, Transformers RID is recent, Tsum Tsum is recent.

They also did the opening movie for Street Fighter V

Aug 17, 2017 8:15 AM

#68

AServant

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BatoKusanagi said:
Well, if I could say the same thing about K-On!, Tamako Market and Phantom World, but I don't because that's KyoAni's thing and they do it well.
Also, I refuse to believe that anyone with better eye sight than Mr Magoo wouldn't be able to tell, say, Ajin and Sidonia apart. Sidonia and Blame are a different story as their both adapted from manga by the same author.

Those 3 anime while similar, they're style not the too similar compared to Ajin, Sidonia, & other similar Polygon's anime. And of course anyone could tell apart between those anime, they have different story, diffenrent cinematography, different musical score, etc. It's obvious. What I meant by "most of their anime feel like they exist in the same universe & the characters will join forces to make some kind of Avenger or something" was to emphasize that they have a very similar art style that they might as well be in a shared universe. Not, "Oh, look at those silly Polygon's anime. They look the same, you can't tell the difference between them. Even if you watched them, you could never tell the difference." You intentionally misrepresented my statement. Please do not do that again. I am not interested in discussing with someone who blindly defend something they love.

yodsanklai said:

Huh? Ronja is recent, Lost in Oz is recent, Transformers RID is recent, Tsum Tsum is recent.

They also did the opening movie for Street Fighter V

Before I start a discussion with you, let me ask you a couple of things:

1. Have you read my opening statement for this discussion thread? It exists, & it's the in the very beginning of this thread.

2. Have you understood my opening statement for this discussion thread? If you haven't, please read it again.

Now if you have done the two things that I asked, you will immediately realize that this post of yours does not add anything to the discussion. Or maybe you intentionally misrepresented my argument?

EDIT: Replying a user & fixing a word.

AServantAug 17, 2017 9:19 AM

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