| Harmful? Anything but. Convoluting the issue of mental health and telling people that they have a physical disease is harmful. People feel that they have to resign to their fate as one of the "mentally ill". Furthermore, the un-diagnosed believe that they are not affected by mental illness, and this is incredibly dangerous. Naturally we shouldn't make people panic about their mental health, but if everyone had a stronger awareness of mental health, then we probably wouldn't see so much insanity in the world. The problem with psychoanalysis and the such is that it's very difficult to be successful with. You need a wealth of people skills and wisdom. Modern psychiatry should aim to combine medical advances with psychoanalysis approaches, and by appointing intelligent doctors who have incredible people skills and knowledge to take on the task. Don't underestimate the Japanese. They are very intelligent people, and it's no surprise they see the sense and simplicity in dealing with issues of mental health. Modern psychiatry is at a loss, and it'd be good if more sense was encouraged through the elucidation and practice of these matters of the mind. |
| Not really cause you can't cure yourself from a mental illness just by realizing you have one you need help from a psychiatrist |
| 한 번만 살지만 제대로 하면 한 번이면 충분해요 |
I endorse psycho-therapy (so the total of these therapies mentioned and the others) but I cannot yet discriminate on what ones would seem to be more effective as I have not had such an intensive education on them. |
| Psychoanalysis is hocum. Don't get me wrong, Freud's idea of the Subconscious wasn't entirely wrong, but the vast majority of his work (which was entirely based on speculation) is wrong. As a final nail in the coffin, it was his daughter who actually, for the most part, really further developed the Subconscious, so his only real contribution was just a lucky guess. As for the media's portrayal of psychoanalysis (i.e. armchair psychology), I think it can be harmful if one with an actual disorder takes psychoanalysis seriously - as they will never be cured. A good example would be phobias - According to psychoanalysis a phobia is the result of some repressed conflict (for more on this google "psychosexual stages of development") in which what you fear is really just a metaphor for the conflict. The cure would be uncovering said conflict - after 10 years of on-going sessions you will retain the phobia. On the other hand, a behaviorist would say that your fear is likely the result of having paired what you are afraid of (the stimulus) with a fear response. Through immersion therapy you could rid yourself of the phobia in 2 hours. (In case you are curious, most disorders today are dealt with either using multiple therapies of which none are psychoanalysis, or Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy. And of course drugs as well as a few other rather extreme practices) I think the biggest problem is that people are idiots when it comes to logic - They can understand that disorders are the result of "something wrong in the brain", but they can't put two and two together and think it somehow is magically not related to physical problems. The "mind" to them is something as intangible as a soul. The problem is that cognition is based in reality, and curing a disorder in many cases may require therapy or medication (or both). |
Pirating_NinjaMar 16, 2017 5:12 PM
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Pirating_Ninja said: I think it can be harmful if one with an actual disorder takes psychoanalysis seriously - as they will never be cured. But that's you just saying that; there's no basis to what you're saying. Also, I strongly posit that mental disorders do not exist objectively, so this argument has as much fruit as comparing the "mental disorder" from your average Joe down the street to someone clinically diagnosed with an enduring illness. |
JustaCrat said: Great. There is no basis that what psychoanalysis posits is true either. Why are you holding one in high esteem and the other not? As I stated, psychoanalysis is literally a theory based on speculation from a man who thought cocaine was pretty neat.Pirating_Ninja said: I think it can be harmful if one with an actual disorder takes psychoanalysis seriously - as they will never be cured. But that's you just saying that; there's no basis to what you're saying. Also, I strongly posit that mental disorders do not exist objectively, so this argument has as much fruit as comparing the "mental disorder" from your average Joe down the street to someone clinically diagnosed with an enduring illness. As for you, what you are saying isn't even psychoanalysis so I am at a loss as for why you are defending it (not that you are any less wrong - at least Freud's theory contained more writing regardless of how wrong it was) |
Pirating_NinjaMar 16, 2017 5:19 PM
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Pirating_Ninja said: JustaCrat said: Great. There is no basis that what psychoanalysis posits is true either. Why are you holding one in high esteem and the other not. As I stated, psychoanalysis is literally a theory based on speculation from a man who though cocaine was pretty neat.But that's you just saying that; there's no basis to what you're saying. Also, I strongly posit that mental disorders do not exist objectively, so this argument has as much fruit as comparing the "mental disorder" from your average Joe down the street to someone clinically diagnosed with an enduring illness. As for you, what you are saying isn't even psychoanalysis so I am at a loss as for why you are defending it (not that you are any more wrong - at least Freud's theory contained more writing regardless of how wrong it was) Let's be clear: I'm endorsing psycho-therapy, with no discrimination to certain methods, yet. Also, I endorse medical treatment in psychiatry; I endorse prescribed drugs and other forms of medical intervention (but, again, with no set discrimination to the limits of these medical interventions as I have not had an intensive education on said particular of the psychiatric subject yet). So let's be clear on all that. |
j0x said: @JustaCrat psychoanalysis is a kind of psychotherapy claim by its fanatics though psychoanalysis is saying unconscious thoughts are the reason for mental problems especially disabling ones what do you even mean by psychotherapy? can you give examples of what you meant? This divide between unconscious and conscious needs some elucidation. By psychotherapy I am merely referring to psychiatric intervention that does not consist of prescribing drugs or taking medical intervention upon the individual. Simply dealing with the core matters of the mind that are causing the illness and symptoms. A range of defined therapies exist, and some of them will probably meet this end. I endorse a greater elucidation on these interventions and matters of the mind, such that we may have a clear and simplified approach to our psycho-therapy that can be used in conjunction with drugs and medical interventions. It all just needs to be elucidated properly, I suppose. |
Then I'm talking about something different or new then. A unified approach from psycho-therapy/psychoanalysis to drug prescription and medical intervention. As for me talking too generally; well, it almost sounds like you're asking me to elucidate everything right here and now. Am I really qualified to do that though? Maybe I could give it a good go, but I'd rather qualified psychiatrists read this and had a discourse regarding said elucidation. Like I said, I'm not fully educated on psychiatry, so I likely couldn't give a full and proper elucidation right now. |
Well, cognitive behavioural therapy has been mentioned. Psychoanalsys would also fall under this bracket. My idea is this though: forget the divisions of different psycho-therapy methods and create a one-size-fits-all psycho therapy philosophy that can be applied to different mental disorders and conditions with respect to the different issues and difficulties each disorder or condition poses. If we understand fundamentally, that psychiatric medication and some medical interventions are good for helping mental health, then we can apply this with a psychiatric approach focused on dealing with matters of the mind with the individual. I endorse identifying the traumas and major insecurities different individuals face. From there I think it's about labeling the mood disturbances appropriately. Teaching the individual how to control and manage their mood disturbances would be the next step. Also important is encouraging a stronger moral awareness with the affected individual. When the individual has a solid awareness of what's causing their ill health and a resolve to rectify it in order to see good results in their life, then reinforcements of these educations can be used. Naturally, building the patients confidence and groundedness in reality are also important. When the patient realises that their mood disturbances were causing all their irrational, antisocial or impulsive behaviours, and they see the results from the therapy, then medication and medical interventions can be used as a stabiliser to maintain the patient's good health. This should work in theory. |
| Psychoanalysis? Like what Sigmund Freud was into? |
| Exploring the human psyche is always fascinating whether in fiction or nonfiction if it is done correctly. It touches people on an even more personal level if it fits their character profile. It also helps people understand others better because our information about them is often very limiting. |
| @JustaCrat Google Freud's theories. Psychoanlytics basically came down to the idea that one had buried conflicts that arose when one did not sufficiently resolve conflicts occurring during the psychosexual stages - for example, during the phallic stage (3-6 years of age), the young boy would have an Oedipus Complex (i.e. want to bone his mom), but at the same time would fear his father finding out and castrate him (castration anxiety). Failing to resolve this conflict would result in the male being over-aggressive, vain, etc. The girl on the other hand would have an Electra complex (wants to bone her dad) and penis envy (made she couldn't be born w/ one) - resolution came in the form of finding a man just like her daddy. Too be blunt - you seem to think that "therapy" should be treated as a philosophy but still be applied. This kind of thinking (in fact, it was thank's to Psychoanalysts proposition of "repressed memories") is what lead to "psychiatrists" accidentally getting girls to believe their fathers had raped them when they were children. It got so out of hand that at one point in the 80s I believe, feminists came up with a statistic that 1 in 3 fathers rape their children. While it turns out that Freud's random guess that memories can be suppressed was wrong (because remember, he did not conduct any type of experiments to support such a claim), it does turn out that "false memories" are exceedingly easy to create. Not only does this occur in ~66% of the population, but people actually become more certain that the memory was real when questioned or confronted over it - Essentially what happened was that using the Psychoanalyst's explanation (i.e. that a disorder had to be the result of some traumatic event), psychiatrists asked leading questions and suggestions trying to uncover some serious traumatic event from childhood - The result? Reports of father's raping daughters, or community members conducting satanic rituals absolutely exploded - The problem? The overwhelming majority (pretty sure all satanic rituals) were false memories. The mind is not some magical product - It is the result of the insanely complex brain. The environment influences the "mind" (through the brain) as does biology (obviously) - People never have a disorder because of voodoo magic. It is true that man questions are unanswered, but not unanswerable or so simple that someone with no knowledge on the field could make a guess even relevant. |
Pirating_NinjaMar 16, 2017 9:53 PM
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Let's definitely separate what I'm suggesting from Freud's psychoanalysis. And no, I wholeheartedly disagree that someone like me couldn't possibly begin to try to answer psychiatry's biggest questions. This belief that only the educated elite are able to speak truly of matters of the mind is unfounded, and would imply an appeal to their qualifications rather than taking words on their own merits. |
JustaCratMar 16, 2017 10:57 PM
| The easiest way to resolve this is: if your belief in psychoanalysis's effectiveness contradicts the scientific consensus, develop the methodology that actually makes it work, get published, then collect your Nobel. |
| There is absolutely no reason why I should accept "turn your brain off" as a valid excuse to defend a poor show. ~ blatant ad: https://myanimelist.net/blog/Crusader_8 I spend the time to write it, so please read it lol |
| @j0x Mhhh from what I remember, psychoanalysis boils down to talking to each other and make yourself conscious about something. I find it a good way to be used in cases like depression or something like that, when the patient will understand what's in his surroundings, though I think there's also a prescription drugs to depression. When it comes to the media, it may be exaggerated in a bit. Like in Shigatsu wa Kimi no Uso, while I do enjoy the series, Kaori did something that might alarm some people. Well what the character did was just basically "force" it. In Welcome to NHK, I think it deals more to depression/loneliness, well it was shown how it was "cured" in a way so yeah. There's a lot of tricky things to it, sometimes, in this today's age now psychoanalysis doesn't work so they go the drugs that will either stop it or temporarily stop it. |
| I would like to see cases of psychoses being treated by mere psychoanalysis in real life. I have, however, seen minor issues automatically treating themselves at the discovery of a hidden memory or some other stimulus. I think the brain should neither be reduced to a mere physical organ nor elevated to the level of a soul. We neither know enough to find physiological origins of every mental illness nor are we ignorant enough to reject the very evident materialistic origins of many diseases. Our primary concern is treatment and we should stick with whatever works. That's how we'll get closer to figuring out the brain. I've never seen psychoanalysis trope in anime, though. Or maybe I have but I didn't think of psychoanalysis. So it's no cause for concern. |
| NHK is propaganda, not even exaggerated reality. Please don't confuse the two. Psychoanalysis is very popular in the humanities, now more as a perspective to analyze things for coolness. I don't know. I haven't figured it out yet, but in the sciences it's not taken too seriously. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
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