Basic Mafia v4: Haruhi Suzumiya Mafia | Game Over - Mafia and Third Party Win

logic340 said:
Honestly I feel like everyone who was on the 40 train need to take a good look a their neighbor and see where the scum is. Why was the 40 lynch so easy? Who put the though out there and let it manifest. What did the train form in opposition to aren't these the questions that should be being asked? Didn't I ask some of these yesterday. I made mention of no one saving 40 outside of Lucian and I. Again I know that losing town can seem inevitable but we still need to keep searching. I feel like 6 people took the easy way out instead of doing their due diligence in securing a proper lynch. @Kit Look at me EoD. How many EoD's do we have to have like this together before I get you to listen to me?

logic340 said:
You're neutral with me right now so don't worry to much. Those were my feeling shortly after the flip I have had time to think about things and we'll see where they lead.

1. I didn't realize that mobile was that much different from desk top view. It definitely puts things in a different perspective.
2. "you are a smart player which scum would want to out right?" I don't really see how this is a reason for me not being scum? I am town so scum want to out me for that reason alone. What their methods are I could come up with many reasons but where would mere speculation get us now that we actually have real hard evidence to at our disposal.
3. Thank you for the compliment. You are great for the game too. We may not always agree, or understand one another but we all contribute in our own way whether others realize that fact or not.
4. I don't worry about the mods they have been keeping up with the vote count this game rather well. Your vote and your voice are not only your weapons for rooting out the scum they are also the tools to our shared trust and understanding. We have to find a way to use them to their full potential.
5. While what Grapefruit said has merit you cannot let that stymie your voice. If there is only on good reason then hang on it. I can't fault you for sticking to what you believe I did the same thing. It's not about getting better it's about us understanding one another and figuring out how to work together. We can disagree, I don't view Kit or Gruffin in a favorable light right now but we all had similar thoughts about Bursama and made them know.
6. I would say the point about Kit and Gruffin wanting reads really isn't a knock on you a lot of people want those but sometime it's advantageous to withhold some information. It's all a give and take I don't look at everything face value too many

So I have a few questions for you:
-if you are town do you think there was scum on the 40 train?
-If you think there were scum on the train how many?
-If you think there were scum on the train who do you think it could be?

Kit said:
I'm done discussing with you why I voted 40 because I feel I've already talked about it at length, it can't be taken back, and I already apologized to you personally, twice. I find it rather insulting you think I'm not trying hard enough in this game when I spend hours here every day. Your tone in this post sounds very "I was right and you were wrong! HAH!” Which is kind of childish, and the same goes to Lucian for quoting your post and saying "PREACH" I'm already aware scum could have pushed the 40 lynch, in fact I said it during the night time. I don't know what you expect from me, because I'm playing this game the best I can without the amazing ability of knowing if a lynch candidate that I'm voting for will flip town or scum.

I'm also aware that some scum could have been defending 40 because they knew he would flip town, something the rest of us didn't have the benefit of knowing. But right now I'm more interested in the Bursama train.

logic340 said:
This post is meant to ruffle feather but not hurt feelings. You were not the only one on that train and it wasn't implied that we aren't trying hard enough but look at EoD and tell me that we didn't settle? I have never seen scum behave in the was 40 was and gave multiple examples from other games in which this instance felt the same. Game after game I am fighting off a mislynch by myself it would be nice to be acknowledged in the moment instead of after the fact. None of us can do this on our own I am out her trying to bring us together not tear us apart. I just want you guys to look at the train and think about who the scum are. You and Gruffin are dong that your vote is on Bursama. Let's continue to fight the good fight.

Grapefruit21 said:
@Phraze What do you mean that I am evasive? Evasive in that I avoid questions? I feel like I am responding to most questions asked of me.

Second what's your town read on Bursama? No one is directly defending them but there are people questioning the wagon. And no one defending the wagon doesn't necessarily mean the player is town, could be getting bussed by scum for all we know. I feel good about my vote but I do want you to try and talk me out of it if you think Bursama is town.

Phraze said:
u got frustrated when everyone suspected u. everything else, solo flight/opinion and convince. u should work with town more, filter ur suspicions with theirs and vice versa. see who's someone u can trust. this game is won by teamwork. I'm getting mixed feelings about u cuz of the lack of teamwork. but then again, ur new.

Bursama has been giving new opinions to the game that isn't distracting. it's more helpful to town than not. too early to say in the phase tho, but keep an eye out.

anddd I don't see scum needing to bus so early? we haven't found any leads yet.

Grapefruit21 said:
@Gruffin So we haven't had much interaction despite both being on the Bursama train. To my recollection you asked me 1 question I answered it, and then you went back to talking to logic. How do you feel about my reasons now that I've expanded on them? Do you think scum has fast started this train? If yes do you have any guess on who they are? Has your opinion on Bursama changed at all since you voted them for roughly the same reasons I did.

I am new and to me team work as town is sharing of reads and attempting to convince others of them, while listening to others reads and keeping an open mind. Is there another part I am missing or am I not doing the second half from your POV?

Can you give me some examples please. I have my reasons for being on the train and they're focused on the lack of helpful contributions. Seeing some helpful ones would help me to better hone my read because I either missed them or disagree on how helpful they are.

You are probably correct on scum not needing to bus this early. Would be a very rash decision. But then again I might be onto something and they might be spooked. Impossible to know at this point.

@Phraze I'm still not understanding why you chose Sonata over Sithis/Mishu/Lucian, can you give me the reason you wanted to pressure them specifically over the rest? What did your pressure vote accomplish?

I was not scumreading you for voting after me, I was scumreading you because I do not completely understand what you were trying to do with the vote and what you got out of it (pretty much I don't see townie intentions yet because you haven't shown anything). You have not yet explained how that vote has affected your reads.

I don't think you could have predicted how Logic would have reacted to that. What I'm talking about is you say it was to start conversation, yet you did not participate in the subsequent conversation it caused.

Could you give details on why you scumread Sithis and I? You said mudflinging, but I want to see support for this.

How are the other players self-explanatory? Again, I need details to know what you are thinking.

@Phraze Going back to your original post, how are Soren or Kit under your radar? They are two of the heavier posters in the thread. I can understand not having a read but the phrase under the radar doesn't seem to apply to them.

Phraze said:
@Grapefruit21
I'm aware ur new. food for thought. compare reads with others, look for the odd one out. ur going against that. that's why u were scumread. when cornered, u became frustrated. it's evasive play overall. not liking it.

NK analysis on Mishukax. besides something they said in D1(when I left).

they're (Soren and Kit) under my radar similar to u. lowkey posting.

LucianRoy said:


Puuusshhhyyy...

Gruffin said:
@Bursama What do you think of Logic's 644?

LucianRoy said:

I guess we'll have to see where Bursama votes today and why.


Or... a possible mistake? Still being optimistic about this. It is a common new-player mistake, but Bursama doesn't exactly seem all that new to the game.


Ahhh, I see. Starting the catch-all scumtell of mudslinging against 40 didn't seem too scummy at the time, but hindsight says differently. The late vote on 40 did strike me as kind of a scummy envelope push, you might be right there.

@Bursama, you said something about voting only when necessary yesterday, right?

When is it necessary to vote somebody?

Gruffin said:
^ @Bursama I would like to see you respond to this as well.

Grapefruit21 said:
@Bursama if you are town I have no desire to lynch you, but a claim and no defence or alternative scum hunting is not going to get me off your train.

Why do you think we should lynch you today?

Bursama said:

I should be lynched before we reach LyLo.

Bursama said:
#1 Town players who are more detrimental to town should be lynched. This applies to me.

#2 Read previous point.
#3 Why should I?

Bursama said:


#1 Town players who are more detrimental to town should be lynched. This applies to me.
#2 Read previous point.
#3 Why should I?

rosielovesanime said:


I don't know if you have a similar role in forum maifa, but this smells like Tanner behavior. If we kill him, he wins

@Grapefruit21 Thoughts on this?

Kit said:
Sorry about that, I got mad at that post and left without responding, and then when I came back I found out I was specifically pinged it in, and got mad all over again lol. I'm all cool now. I don't want to distance myself from someone I'm leaning town on, I do want to work together. I will try listening to what you say more, Logic. But please remember I have my own way of playing too... I don't want to be bullied for it.. If you scum read me that is fine and part of the game, but please don't say I'm not trying, because I am ;-;

Oyasumi_Rosie said:


2. At the time, there wasn't any for me to go on besides specialization. Now,at this point at the game, it isn't good enough.
3. Of course. I am like the way you think, though I don't always agree where its leading. And thank you for saying that. I makes me feel way more confident about my posts.
4. Yeah, but the mods are only human right? They can't know what they don't read. I am just an overly cautious person when it comes to timing. Better way early than way late.
5. I feel like you orignal post you made really good points about Gruffin being scum. Not enough to make me really believe they are scum, but a good point to bring up laterin the game, if she is still alive.
6. Honestly, I don't think I really understand reads. I try explaining what my thought process was but every time it feels like people are saying that my reasoning in'ts good enough. It feels a bit like people are trying to lead me on more than thing. Any tips for giving good reads?

As for you questions. For them I am going to assume that they are three members, though four is possible given the size of our group.
-I am 85% sure that there was scum on the 40 train.
-If there are three members then at most two. Which means there is a possible one scum on Mishkax train. My current thought is that they voted for different people to hide their track, thought is possible that the other member didn't vote for either of them.
- I was working this one out... but turns out this is going to take much longer than I though. I will try and message you after I get this all sorted out. Sorry!

Phraze said:
u got frustrated when everyone suspected u. everything else, solo flight/opinion and convince. u should work with town more, filter ur suspicions with theirs and vice versa. see who's someone u can trust. this game is won by teamwork. I'm getting mixed feelings about u cuz of the lack of teamwork. but then again, ur new.

Bursama has been giving new opinions to the game that isn't distracting. it's more helpful to town than not. too early to say in the phase tho, but keep an eye out. anddd I don't see scum needing to bus so early? we haven't found any leads yet.

Phraze said:
miniwall of replies

------------------------------------

- didn't expect Mish to die so soon geez. maybe we're dealing with a similar-to-Jack scumteam. going after bad/inactive players. it might explain the lack of EoD activity. no wait...actually I'm curious about the lack of EoD activity. who were the leading trains at the end? if they were town, it makes sense there was no rush.
- Bursama seem to be town. no one is defending them.
- Grapefruit is an evasive player. I'm new to him at any rate.
- suspects: Gruffin/Sithis(for mudflinging)
- under radar: Dono/Soren/Kit
- other players are self-explanatory

Oyasumi_Rosie said:
@logic340 Took me a long time, but I got together my thoughts on people on the train


tl;dr: Based on this info I would say that we should look out for Kit, Gruffin, and Soren, as they had the most buddy buddy relationships (with each other) than anyone else on any trains

Now for reads I had while writing this list


Vote: Kit I am sorry kit ;-;.....
He is the lynch pen that keeps my scum read on him, Gruffin, and Soren together. I can gain a lot of info no matter what he turns out to be.

//writing long post is super tiring. How do you guys do it?

logic340 said:
@LucianRoy I like that you were trying to save 40 with me end of D1 but I really don't understand why you were standing up for him? From where I stand right now it looks like you knew he would flip town and you could bask in the light since it was right. You hinted that he was town early when not many people could get that vibe so I am wondering if you can now fill us in on what tipped you off so early about his alignment? By post #55 you were already getting town vibes from 40.

LucianRoy said:
Wait a minute, my vote on Mishu was hot blooded. Let me retract that.

Unvote

aa-dono said:
I can understand Lucian at this part. I thought ox40 had a good vibe during the first few pages as well.

logic340 said:
The first part of the post is rather informative thank you for sharing that. I would be really infested in seeing how people view my interactions with other players.

@Bursama I haven't played with you before and we have had limited interactions so far. You say that you have nothing really to think about my #644 may I ask why that is? I get the feeling you don't care much for my posts since you said that I had a question for you when it was actually my answer to your question that was awaiting response. Do you feel my case attacked you personally rather than the play? Were there any points you felt were egregious or merit a further discussion? I am just trying to sort our your alignment make a town block and lynch scum.

Bursama said:


No, I don't felt that you attacked me personally.

And no, I don't really think your case was egregious. I read your case and felt that there's nothing that would require a response from me.

Scumread by who? By you? Or by others because when I was scumread early it was before anyone had given reads and was based on RVS behaviour. I only recall lashing out early in the game when I had a train on me and when I was trying to get people to post more and called out sithis (and others) for iioa. But yes I have been prickly all game because everything feels rushed to me. MTGS has much longer phases and only having 48 hours has me on edge. Plus I'm over eager.

So you have the opposite read to me then on the same post. Which is fair but not helpful, because that is what I based my case on, and just mentioning it to me as your only example when you are trying to compare reads with others, you'll have to convince me that it is helpful.

lowkey must mean something different to you then me because I would never use low key to describe this:
"when cornered, u became frustrated" and this "u got frustrated when everyone suspected u. everything else, solo flight/opinion and convince."

Lowkey to me is subdued, quiet, and restrained. Which is kind of the opposite of how you've been describing me. And I would say the same is true of Soren and Kit. They are posting reads and leading wagons so I don't see how you think they aren't having a major impact on the game and putting ourselves into the limelight.

@Phraze completely butchered that second question. What I was trying to say before my grasp of English failed me was that I have posted my read and explained it several times. You accuse me of not comparing reads to others and playing with a solo mindset. And you respond to my question on why you town read him by siting part of my scum case back to me, but saying it's town. I hope you can see why I don't find that helpful, and it feels like you ignored my case for voting Bursama. At least explain why you think the NKA was helpful because I have tried to explain why I think it's harmful to the town.

I still think Lucian's scum. What you guys read as him scumhunting is what I see as stalling, and being suggestive but not taking the step himself, and riding on others' reads.

- Penta. This is really just a hunch. Started while me and Lucian had our very short back and forth.

I think we all have our own idea of what is helpful and what is not. That is where we need to all work together and use our strengths to make up for someone else's weakness. We are stronger together and I urge you to work with us Phraze. You say that Grapefruit is being evasive but I think that term better categorizes the way Bursama has approached me this game much better than the way you apply it in this situation.

-Would you classify Mishu's game this time around as bad or inactive? They were a little inactive in the early going but their contribution to the thread is clear to see. They were also quite active EoD and made some interesting posts and moves. I dare say that their play feel similar to Hirugashi where the moved their vote late D1. This makes me want to take a harder look at Kit since that is where Mishu's vote moved to.
-Do you have reasons for believing that bursama is town or it due to the fact that no one is defending him? What about the defend yourself argument that was used to lynch 40 yesterday?
-Can you elaborate on what you mean by Grapefruit is an evasive player. Evasive - "tending to avoid commitment or self-revelation, especially by responding only indirectly" I have actually gotten the complete opposite feeling when I read Grapefruit's posts.
-Can you give an example of Sithis mudslinging if it's what I think you are talking about Mishu addressed that in real time and it was not mudslinging on Sithis part.
-I agree with Soren and aa-dono being under the radar but how do you figure that with Kit?

Is there anyone among us who is good or decent with VCA?

logic340 said:
Do you think there is scum on your train or just misinformed town?