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Jan 1, 2017 6:07 PM
#701
This burnsama train is going real fast. I'm distracted by others things right now, but when I'm going to take a closer look at this in a moment |
Be like this seal. It is a happy seal. ~Review Guidelines~ | ~Recommendation Guidelines~ | ~Mafia Society~ |
Jan 1, 2017 6:10 PM
#702
Grapefruit21 said: So I"m going to come out swinging and then vanish till I get to work, hoping it's quiet because I have lot's of thoughts right now and lot's of paranoid reads First thing is first though Vote: Bursama In my notes from night phase I listing reasons for various NK's and for Mishu that it could be to set up a chain mislynch on me given my position on the wagon and that mishu had seeded the idea one of x40 and me could be maf. Then it happened and Bursama immeadiately jumped on the idea that I could be scum for the NK (which makes no sense from my POV as it puts suspicion on to myself), and says this piece of nonsense: "A good explanation would be that mafia tried to push that wagon, but felt that it really didn't get that much support and decided to NK Mishu since they probably though they couldn't manage to lynch him in the upcoming days. (This is a also a point in favour of Grape being mafia)" There is no world where that is a point in favor of one of us (sithis and myself) over each other. Like absolutely none and I'd love you see you explain it Bursama. In my mind, Bursama would be scum if he voted you for that reason, and that reason alone. You can see it in his words. He doubles back between Sith being scum and you being scum because there are situations that lead to both, his twisted logic is wifom, he just doesn't know it. If he was certain of it, then I'd be concerned. Now obviously this read is OMGUS but I did have it prepped and ready to go as I felt strongly that town was going to target an active scum leaning player and not a lurker (we need to actively hit scum today after all, can't afford a random policy lynch at this point) and felt I might be a target as I have been read as scummy at various points. BUt I'm not scum and have been hunting scum and combined with Logic's pbpa I feel like I've found one. What from Logic's pbpa do you agree with exactly? So @Bursama why is that quote point to me over sithis? Maf would have lot's of reasons and sowing discord and fear is a great reason if the wagon was townie. So give me a reads on x40's wagon and some scum hunting which you have been lacking so far. More likely to find mafia there than on a nowhere wagon with two living people. Your question is a bit of a trap because there's no way his logic, (which I remind you, is invalid), should or could lead to any valid explanations for either you being scum over sith or sith being scum over you. I'm down with seeing some hunting from Bursama though, so I'm okay with the vote's pressure. |
"If you look for a ghost, you'll find one." |
Jan 1, 2017 6:17 PM
#703
Posting about a NK speculating that both players on the train are scum without providing any reasoning is not a pro town attitude. It's mudslinging and casting doubt our on alignment and laying ground work for a train to form, with no reasoning provided. Not pro town. Combined with logics points about behavior yesterday about their role in the x40 mislynch instigating the mudslinging debate that led to the mislynch without jumping on that train early is a pattern and one I don't like. |
Jan 1, 2017 6:19 PM
#704
PentaFlare said: LucianRoy said: @Soren, some questions. Is Bursama trying to use NKA a towntell, or is it null? I don't believe it's scummy since he didn't seem to try and influence anyone else's actions with the information he presented. Did Penta try seem like he was attempting to buy gruffin's vote on me earlier? I called them out for the slight posturing they were edging towards, and then they said I looked town... I'm not sure why penta would go to such lengths to check on a TR on me with gruf, but they did. If it helps to see what I was thinking, posturing the scumread on you when there wasn't really anything there was more to see how Gruffin would react. I'm still try be to figure Gruffin out. Oh, ok, yeah I guess I could see that being town motivated. Gruffin's still a bit up in the air for me too, so the feeling's mutual. |
"If you look for a ghost, you'll find one." |
Jan 1, 2017 6:21 PM
#705
Kit said: Like I said in my post from my point of view it looks different than that. We'll have to agree to disagree because we obviously judge what merits contribution differently. logic340 said: I feel like I've explained this so many times already but 40 didn't seem like he was playing the game, while Rosie did. Rosie didn't fully explain reads but 40 didn't explain anything besides defending himself. Of course I find game-solving behavior to be townie and apathetic behavior to be scummy.This is not indicative of rosie's alignment so much but I find it interesting that while 40 is getting lynched for not giving reads, rosie is getting a pass for refusing to give reasons for the reads she has give. This makes Kit and Gruffin look more scummy to me than rosie. Kit said: I feel like I can answer you both right here. @Gruffin I feel like we could have gotten a lot of information and possible scum off a rosie flip. I am neutral not town reading her. You know I don't like lynching town for information especially when so many park there on the easy target instead of continuing the hunt (Which is what he was lynched for not doing). Let's say rosie had flipped town our train becomes the new suspect lead and we get all the information on the people who tried to save her. Either way there is plenty of information to go around. But is here nor there now you have proving to do today after D1. @Kit I want to ask you what makes Rosie's time at the EoD more relevant than the time 40 put into the early going? Also I didn't only ask you guys to vote rosie I also asked you all to look at bursama which no one wanted to make mention of until start of today.Gruffin said: @logic340 I agree with this post from Gruffin, I honestly wasn't even considering lynching Rosie since she had said so little that if she turned out town, her lynch really wouldn't help us as much as a 40 flip would, even if 40 was town as well. I might have considered lynching bursama if anyone had a good case against him at the time, but no one did. Opposing train was Mishu and I believed Mishu was town, more than 40 at least.@Logic340 Regarding your post 644, I want to clear up my thought process from EoD. The reason why I wanted 0x40 lynched over Rosie was because several people were taking strong stances for or against the lynch, which will become valuable information later on in the game (referring to VCA). Yeah, Rosie isn’t doing the best either and she’s been suspicious for not going into detail on her reads as I said, but only a few people had formed opinions on her up until then so if she flipped town, there would be less info gained from it. I wanted time to figure out her mindset before piling votes on to her. |
Proud Administrator of the D Gray Man FC and OnePunch-Man FC |
Jan 1, 2017 6:25 PM
#706
Without voting yesterday they played a key role in instigating the x40 mislynch. Then used things that aren't traditional scum hunting, NK guessing and speculation, to try to start building a new case today. That's not bad logic, that's bad town play. |
Jan 1, 2017 6:27 PM
#707
logic340 said: Yeah, I get where you were coming from with it, I think it was a difference in reads is all. I'm a little concerned with how quickly everyone was on board the Bursama train. What do you make of it?@Gruffin I feel like we could have gotten a lot of information and possible scum off a rosie flip. I am neutral not town reading her. You know I don't like lynching town for information especially when so many park there on the easy target instead of continuing the hunt (Which is what he was lynched for not doing). Let's say rosie had flipped town our train becomes the new suspect lead and we get all the information on the people who tried to save her. Either way there is plenty of information to go around. But is here nor there now you have proving to do today after D1. @Kit I want to ask you what makes Rosie's time at the EoD more relevant than the time 40 put into the early going? Also I didn't only ask you guys to vote rosie I also asked you all to look at bursama which no one wanted to make mention of until start of today. |
Jan 1, 2017 6:27 PM
#708
Grapefruit21 said: Posting about a NK speculating that both players on the train are scum without providing any reasoning is not a pro town attitude. It's mudslinging and casting doubt our on alignment and laying ground work for a train to form, with no reasoning provided. I guess we'll have to see where Bursama votes today and why. Not pro town. Or... a possible mistake? Still being optimistic about this. It is a common new-player mistake, but Bursama doesn't exactly seem all that new to the game. Combined with logics points about behavior yesterday about their role in the x40 mislynch instigating the mudslinging debate that led to the mislynch without jumping on that train early is a pattern and one I don't like. Ahhh, I see. Starting the catch-all scumtell of mudslinging against 40 didn't seem too scummy at the time, but hindsight says differently. The late vote on 40 did strike me as kind of a scummy envelope push, you might be right there. @Bursama, you said something about voting only when necessary yesterday, right? When is it necessary to vote somebody? |
"If you look for a ghost, you'll find one." |
Jan 1, 2017 6:28 PM
#709
Grapefruit21 said: But have you figured out if it comes from a scum mindset?Without voting yesterday they played a key role in instigating the x40 mislynch. Then used things that aren't traditional scum hunting, NK guessing and speculation, to try to start building a new case today. That's not bad logic, that's bad town play. |
Jan 1, 2017 6:31 PM
#710
Gruffin said: Correcto.Aa-dono - As neutral as it gets. And oh geez, she’s pulling a TGT Ruu by not giving townreads. Calls Grape out on shading in 269, but I remember her saying that shading is tactic she likes to use to form reads in other games. Correct me if I’m wrong? I'll be around this phase, but a lot slower since there's a lot to catch up but I'll try to read from latest to oldest then back chronologically. |
Jan 1, 2017 6:33 PM
#711
Gruffin said: Fair enough I am going to have to take some time between game to educate myself in the art of VCA and Interaction Analysis. logic340 said: I can't. ;-; Interaction analysis is more for scum flips or at least it is the way I do it, so I'm pretty useless in that regard until we catch at least one scum.@Gruffin can you do an interaction analysis for Mishu when you get back later? I need some coaching on using all these town tools to our advantage. Lord_Sithis said: What else you got for us today? Early suspects for D2? Anyone you would like to pressure?rosielovesanime said: They helped town a lot. They were one of the most active players, always asking questions, always giving reads, always had a strategy. Huge asset to town.Sonata said: Bursama said: Lord_Sithis said: @Bursama I've played with Mishu before, and I can say they're a very good player. Other people willing to confirm this claim? Can confirm. Catching up. Also @Lord_Sithis In what way was he a good player? @PentaFlare you basically asked me for #644 did you read it? Any thoughts or comments? |
Proud Administrator of the D Gray Man FC and OnePunch-Man FC |
Jan 1, 2017 6:35 PM
#712
Gruffin said: I'm not too concerned about it's formation because I want to sort out Bursama early today and it seems others had the same idea. What I will be interested in is how it is taken apart if it come to that. I find it interesting that four of us came to the same conclusion but the two I don't trust happen to be you and kit this time. We need some town unity so maybe this is the start of that.logic340 said: Yeah, I get where you were coming from with it, I think it was a difference in reads is all. I'm a little concerned with how quickly everyone was on board the Bursama train. What do you make of it?@Gruffin I feel like we could have gotten a lot of information and possible scum off a rosie flip. I am neutral not town reading her. You know I don't like lynching town for information especially when so many park there on the easy target instead of continuing the hunt (Which is what he was lynched for not doing). Let's say rosie had flipped town our train becomes the new suspect lead and we get all the information on the people who tried to save her. Either way there is plenty of information to go around. But is here nor there now you have proving to do today after D1. @Kit I want to ask you what makes Rosie's time at the EoD more relevant than the time 40 put into the early going? Also I didn't only ask you guys to vote rosie I also asked you all to look at bursama which no one wanted to make mention of until start of today. |
Proud Administrator of the D Gray Man FC and OnePunch-Man FC |
Jan 1, 2017 6:37 PM
#713
logic340 said: I hope so. Really what I want out of this right now is to be able to understand Bursama better. I think we can use this train on him to our advantage.I'm not too concerned about it's formation because I want to sort out Bursama early today and it seems others had the same idea. What I will be interested in is how it is taken apart if it come to that. I find it interesting that four of us came to the same conclusion but the two I don't trust happen to be you and kit this time. We need some town unity so maybe this is the start of that. What do you think of Grapefruit's reasoning for voting Bursama? |
Jan 1, 2017 6:38 PM
#714
logic340 said: Since I had this ready to go and everyone is already going that way I better get this out now. Bursama: #60 - Kit RVS on Bergama #81 - Makes my list of people I have never played with #119 - My read list as requested by Gruffin. Bursama hasn't posted yet #159 - First post of the game: Mudslinging comment, fluff with Kit about RVS "I love you too", questions Grapefruit about mafia on train comment, Penta is over-explanatory doesn't like his vote, Lucian Powerwolfing or town, quickly goes to neutral probably town on Lucian but with a (?), now Lucian is town or ballsy scum, asks me what I expect Kit to slip about and about me wanting to for a counter wagon, "sigh" at Sonata "You're town right?", little summary kit and Lucian town doesn't like Grapefruit or _0x40_ #161 - asks Grapefruit's opinion on 40 #162 - My response to #159 #163 - Ask Grapefruit about Lucian vote #164 - Ask me to explain my counter wagon idea as if he was a 5-year old or dumb #165 - my response to #164 #166 - _0x40_ asks for Bursama to explain mudslinging #167 - Graperfruit answers to Bursama's questions #169 - Explains mudslinging to 40, says he didn't recognize Grapefruit, and says he's leaving #171 - further explains mudslinging #173 - Penta explains......over-explaining @_@ #175 - _0x40_ explains why they didn't push a scum read on Grapefruit #209 - Vote Count no vote from Bursama as yet #225 - Kit following Bursama about _0x40_ from #159 #242 - Kit's case against 40 references Bursama 2 times #243 - Kit asks Bursama why he hasn't voted for anyone yet? #249 - My read list Bursama Not Enough Info section #253 - My post about inactive players I don't have a good vibe from Bursama #256 - Answers my #253 with "if you are suspicious of them question them" #262 - Asks me how experienced I am says it's an important question #263 - My response to #262 referencing post #36 where I have already explained my experience #268 - I link #164 and #262 and ask if Bursama is was going to respond to them #280 - I tag all the inactive players from my list asking question and making comments. I tell Bursama straight up I find him asking questions and not responding to my responses scummy behavior #281 - Sonata response to #281 they also says they feel Bursama is behaving weird with noting else to add #311 - Soren supports Bursama's mudslinging comment votes 40 #315 - Sithis seems neutral on him #337 - Vote Count no vote from Bursama as yet #363 - He's back reading remembers people (including me) had questions for him "now is a good time to ask" #370 - Vote Count no vote from Bursama as yet. #375 - Mishu's first real post. Tells Bursama they feel Lucian is the type to be ballsy scum and tells him that mudslinging isn't necessarily scum behavior #376 - I copied and pasted #268 still waiting on a response from Bursama #384 - Kit makes mention of how Bursama didn't answer his question after saying he was here and could answer questions and reminds Bursama that he had asked for a read on Grapefruit #385 - Bursama's response to Penta #173 talks about over-explaining being what do because it's fake. Finally responds to my #268 (which was really #164 and #262). Says he couldn't find Kit's question. #386 - Kit's questions were: Why no vote not even RVS and do you still suspect Grapefruit. He says that one was kind of answered. #388 - Response to Mishu #375, asks to elaborate on Lucina Ballsy scum comment and asks why town would sling mud #390 - answer to Kit's #386 saying he missed RVS and is reserved with his vote. Feels slightly better about Grapefruit wants to ISO him but can't do it on this forum (?) #392 - Kit response to 390 "Hmm, ok I see" and explains ctrl+F for isolation #405 - Penta answers #385 says they can see why Bursama feels the way they do. Still and seems to says they feels indifferent on Grapefruit #412 - Vote Count no vote from Bursama as yet. #420 - Mishu answer to #388 Lucian is a bold fellow and says 40's behavior isn't indicative of scum #441 - Says that rosie's vote on 40 feel's awkward, says Mishu still hasn't answered his question about Lucian, further discredits 40, and answers Lucian about #424 (Sithis post) #443 - Finally votes, even implies he will leave his vote there no matter what, says even if town it's cool because we get information #445 - I explain 40's possible mindset #456 - Mishu explains Lucian scum, doesn't agree with 40 mudslinging, says Bursama has seen something they haven't with 40 ("we'll see how this goes"), and says Bursama was mudslinging Sithis #472 - I ask people to take a closer look at Bursama and rosie in my attempt to save 40 #494 - Vote Count Bursama is #4 on the _0x40_ train #520 - My read list Bursama is neutral #565 - A pretty strong post from me to Bursama about actually lynching scum instead of town My actual thoughts on specific posts: #159 - His first post of the game and it just felt weird. Now that I look at it again it's even stranger. We get three different reads on Lucian in the same post. I get that he may have been just quoting things as he went along but you would think he could clean that up a little bit. It just feels like an attempt to look like trying to figure out Lucina when he really did nothing with it. Gun to my head comment is on a confirmed townie and one of my strongest town reads. #164 and #165 ask me to explain my counter wagon (sarcastically at that imo) I answer right away no reasponse for 200+ posts. #171 - Was still around to answer #165 but doesn't explains mudslinging again and leaves until #256 #256 - I raise some concerns about Bursama here but rather than address them he tells me to question them all. #363 This post irked me the most I think. I have questions for Bursama??? No it was the other way around Bursama had questions for me and one was supposedly and important 1 yet he still hasn't responded to my answers to them and is now actually claiming I am the one who had question for him. #441 - The reason this stands out to me is because 2 posts after saying that rosie's vote was awkward he votes the same way. I know he listed his reasons but I didn't agree with them. #443 - I really dislike when people would rather try to get information of a mislynch. I mean I get it, it's bound to happen so use it when it does, but to not care that you could actually be making the game easier for the mafia is not call with me. Every townie life is important #520 - My read list Bursama is neutral So yeah, there is the evidence. I need to try and look at it from a town mindset but I will let you all weigh in on it first before I try to change my own mind about him. He asks question that he and doesn't seem very interested in hearing the answers. Said that I asked him a question when he in fact had asked me the questions. The way I see it pretty much started this whole 40 mess with his mudslinging comments. His nonchalant attitude when talking about the prospects of a possible mislynch is something I have never liked as a playre. Not even responding to my post about possible town mindset with 40. Voting 40 after saying rosie's vote on him was Awkward feels off as well. I feel a general lack of game solving or an real attempt to understand the behavior of a player. I also feel like he isn't showing much interest in the game with the whole making me wait for response to questions he asked. It was such an important question that it took over 200 post to respond and this was the answer "Not that much about alignment, more about how you think". I have had bad vibes since the first post so let me know if I am being too biased here. Any other analysis you think I may have missed as well. vote: Bursama Bursama tries NKA. What's your analysis of it? |
"If you look for a ghost, you'll find one." |
Jan 1, 2017 6:40 PM
#715
LucianRoy said: I engaged in it in my last game and scum told me it was a distraction so I don't really know. It's speculation and mostly conjecture but there may be some merit to it I guess I can't disregard it. I don't see how the NKA implicates Grapefruit but maybe when he explains things it will make more sense to me.logic340 said: Since I had this ready to go and everyone is already going that way I better get this out now. Bursama: #60 - Kit RVS on Bergama #81 - Makes my list of people I have never played with #119 - My read list as requested by Gruffin. Bursama hasn't posted yet #159 - First post of the game: Mudslinging comment, fluff with Kit about RVS "I love you too", questions Grapefruit about mafia on train comment, Penta is over-explanatory doesn't like his vote, Lucian Powerwolfing or town, quickly goes to neutral probably town on Lucian but with a (?), now Lucian is town or ballsy scum, asks me what I expect Kit to slip about and about me wanting to for a counter wagon, "sigh" at Sonata "You're town right?", little summary kit and Lucian town doesn't like Grapefruit or _0x40_ #161 - asks Grapefruit's opinion on 40 #162 - My response to #159 #163 - Ask Grapefruit about Lucian vote #164 - Ask me to explain my counter wagon idea as if he was a 5-year old or dumb #165 - my response to #164 #166 - _0x40_ asks for Bursama to explain mudslinging #167 - Graperfruit answers to Bursama's questions #169 - Explains mudslinging to 40, says he didn't recognize Grapefruit, and says he's leaving #171 - further explains mudslinging #173 - Penta explains......over-explaining @_@ #175 - _0x40_ explains why they didn't push a scum read on Grapefruit #209 - Vote Count no vote from Bursama as yet #225 - Kit following Bursama about _0x40_ from #159 #242 - Kit's case against 40 references Bursama 2 times #243 - Kit asks Bursama why he hasn't voted for anyone yet? #249 - My read list Bursama Not Enough Info section #253 - My post about inactive players I don't have a good vibe from Bursama #256 - Answers my #253 with "if you are suspicious of them question them" #262 - Asks me how experienced I am says it's an important question #263 - My response to #262 referencing post #36 where I have already explained my experience #268 - I link #164 and #262 and ask if Bursama is was going to respond to them #280 - I tag all the inactive players from my list asking question and making comments. I tell Bursama straight up I find him asking questions and not responding to my responses scummy behavior #281 - Sonata response to #281 they also says they feel Bursama is behaving weird with noting else to add #311 - Soren supports Bursama's mudslinging comment votes 40 #315 - Sithis seems neutral on him #337 - Vote Count no vote from Bursama as yet #363 - He's back reading remembers people (including me) had questions for him "now is a good time to ask" #370 - Vote Count no vote from Bursama as yet. #375 - Mishu's first real post. Tells Bursama they feel Lucian is the type to be ballsy scum and tells him that mudslinging isn't necessarily scum behavior #376 - I copied and pasted #268 still waiting on a response from Bursama #384 - Kit makes mention of how Bursama didn't answer his question after saying he was here and could answer questions and reminds Bursama that he had asked for a read on Grapefruit #385 - Bursama's response to Penta #173 talks about over-explaining being what do because it's fake. Finally responds to my #268 (which was really #164 and #262). Says he couldn't find Kit's question. #386 - Kit's questions were: Why no vote not even RVS and do you still suspect Grapefruit. He says that one was kind of answered. #388 - Response to Mishu #375, asks to elaborate on Lucina Ballsy scum comment and asks why town would sling mud #390 - answer to Kit's #386 saying he missed RVS and is reserved with his vote. Feels slightly better about Grapefruit wants to ISO him but can't do it on this forum (?) #392 - Kit response to 390 "Hmm, ok I see" and explains ctrl+F for isolation #405 - Penta answers #385 says they can see why Bursama feels the way they do. Still and seems to says they feels indifferent on Grapefruit #412 - Vote Count no vote from Bursama as yet. #420 - Mishu answer to #388 Lucian is a bold fellow and says 40's behavior isn't indicative of scum #441 - Says that rosie's vote on 40 feel's awkward, says Mishu still hasn't answered his question about Lucian, further discredits 40, and answers Lucian about #424 (Sithis post) #443 - Finally votes, even implies he will leave his vote there no matter what, says even if town it's cool because we get information #445 - I explain 40's possible mindset #456 - Mishu explains Lucian scum, doesn't agree with 40 mudslinging, says Bursama has seen something they haven't with 40 ("we'll see how this goes"), and says Bursama was mudslinging Sithis #472 - I ask people to take a closer look at Bursama and rosie in my attempt to save 40 #494 - Vote Count Bursama is #4 on the _0x40_ train #520 - My read list Bursama is neutral #565 - A pretty strong post from me to Bursama about actually lynching scum instead of town My actual thoughts on specific posts: #159 - His first post of the game and it just felt weird. Now that I look at it again it's even stranger. We get three different reads on Lucian in the same post. I get that he may have been just quoting things as he went along but you would think he could clean that up a little bit. It just feels like an attempt to look like trying to figure out Lucina when he really did nothing with it. Gun to my head comment is on a confirmed townie and one of my strongest town reads. #164 and #165 ask me to explain my counter wagon (sarcastically at that imo) I answer right away no reasponse for 200+ posts. #171 - Was still around to answer #165 but doesn't explains mudslinging again and leaves until #256 #256 - I raise some concerns about Bursama here but rather than address them he tells me to question them all. #363 This post irked me the most I think. I have questions for Bursama??? No it was the other way around Bursama had questions for me and one was supposedly and important 1 yet he still hasn't responded to my answers to them and is now actually claiming I am the one who had question for him. #441 - The reason this stands out to me is because 2 posts after saying that rosie's vote was awkward he votes the same way. I know he listed his reasons but I didn't agree with them. #443 - I really dislike when people would rather try to get information of a mislynch. I mean I get it, it's bound to happen so use it when it does, but to not care that you could actually be making the game easier for the mafia is not call with me. Every townie life is important #520 - My read list Bursama is neutral So yeah, there is the evidence. I need to try and look at it from a town mindset but I will let you all weigh in on it first before I try to change my own mind about him. He asks question that he and doesn't seem very interested in hearing the answers. Said that I asked him a question when he in fact had asked me the questions. The way I see it pretty much started this whole 40 mess with his mudslinging comments. His nonchalant attitude when talking about the prospects of a possible mislynch is something I have never liked as a playre. Not even responding to my post about possible town mindset with 40. Voting 40 after saying rosie's vote on him was Awkward feels off as well. I feel a general lack of game solving or an real attempt to understand the behavior of a player. I also feel like he isn't showing much interest in the game with the whole making me wait for response to questions he asked. It was such an important question that it took over 200 post to respond and this was the answer "Not that much about alignment, more about how you think". I have had bad vibes since the first post so let me know if I am being too biased here. Any other analysis you think I may have missed as well. vote: Bursama Bursama tries NKA. What's your analysis of it? |
Proud Administrator of the D Gray Man FC and OnePunch-Man FC |
Jan 1, 2017 6:42 PM
#716
LucianRoy said: Stalling, I heard, is a classic scum Lucian.@gruffin I changed my mind. Don't wanna use too much data, but yeah, might talk about this later. |
Jan 1, 2017 6:43 PM
#717
Bursama said: How so?PentaFlare said: Togs said: 🌟 Day 1 Final Vote Count 🌟 _0x40_ (6): Kit, Soren, rosielovesanime, Bursama, PentaFlare, Gruffin Mishukax (3): _0x40_, Grapefruit21, Lord_Sithis Lord_Sithis (2): Phraze, LucianRoy Gruffin (1): Sonata Kit (1): Mishukax LucianRoy (1): aa-dono rosielovesanime (1): logic340 For later reference. At first glance, nothing stands out here but I'll come back to it if I think of anything. I actually, this might be point in favour of Sithis being mafia. |
Jan 1, 2017 6:45 PM
#718
logic340 said: Well I honestly did not feel there was anything scummy about Rosie so I had no reason to vote her over 40. I did scum hunt and I really thought 40 was the scummiest, and if not 40 then Bursama or Sith. It's not like I picked someone and said "which town would I not mind losing for information" because you can never be 100% sure about someone's role on just behavior analysis alone. I have to think about worst case scenario and say "well, if he does flip town at least there is information from that flip because nearly everyone in the game has commented on him." When you say you don't like lynching town for informational purposes, you're asking for psychic abilities here, which I don't have. I think everyone would rather lynch scum than informational town, but we have to make do with what we have.Kit said: I feel like I can answer you both right here. @Gruffin I feel like we could have gotten a lot of information and possible scum off a rosie flip. I am neutral not town reading her. You know I don't like lynching town for information especially when so many park there on the easy target instead of continuing the hunt (Which is what he was lynched for not doing). Let's say rosie had flipped town our train becomes the new suspect lead and we get all the information on the people who tried to save her. Either way there is plenty of information to go around. But is here nor there now you have proving to do today after D1. @Kit I want to ask you what makes Rosie's time at the EoD more relevant than the time 40 put into the early going? Also I didn't only ask you guys to vote rosie I also asked you all to look at bursama which no one wanted to make mention of until start of today.Gruffin said: @Logic340 Regarding your post 644, I want to clear up my thought process from EoD. The reason why I wanted 0x40 lynched over Rosie was because several people were taking strong stances for or against the lynch, which will become valuable information later on in the game (referring to VCA). Yeah, Rosie isn’t doing the best either and she’s been suspicious for not going into detail on her reads as I said, but only a few people had formed opinions on her up until then so if she flipped town, there would be less info gained from it. I wanted time to figure out her mindset before piling votes on to her. I don't think Rosie's posts were more "relevant" than 40's, I think they were more "townie." I am perhaps being too easy on her though because she just picked whatever train had the most following and went on it, but I honestly think she did that for the reasons I stated on Day 1, that she is new and that she was absent for most of day 1 and just trying to contribute somehow. I don't think 40 was irrelevant, but that he showed no analytical thinking in his posts. Scum don't need to think analytically because they have the answers. I'm sorry I was wrong, I guess he had his own reasons for not having any analysis, but I still think my reasons for voting him were justified. I honestly don't remember you saying we should look at Bursama, but I was already suspicious of him from his first post anyway, and moreso after 40 flipped town. I didn't want to say it in case it was right and I would get night killed. Last game I was killed for simply suggesting Togs MIGHT be scum.. o_o I'm trying new approaches every game, so I apologize for tunneling on 40 and not discussing other options with you (though I also didn't really want a last minute panic switch to a different person, because that makes analysis confusing) |
Jan 1, 2017 6:47 PM
#719
Bursama said: Oh nvm, don't answer my question from before.logic340 said: Bursama said: PentaFlare said: Togs said: 🌟 Day 1 Final Vote Count 🌟 _0x40_ (6): Kit, Soren, rosielovesanime, Bursama, PentaFlare, Gruffin Mishukax (3): _0x40_, Grapefruit21, Lord_Sithis Lord_Sithis (2): Phraze, LucianRoy Gruffin (1): Sonata Kit (1): Mishukax LucianRoy (1): aa-dono rosielovesanime (1): logic340 For later reference. At first glance, nothing stands out here but I'll come back to it if I think of anything. I actually, this might be point in favour of Sithis being mafia. Mishu had 2nd most votes at the end of D1 and was the competing wagon for D1. If everyone on that wagon was town (Grape and Sithis), why would mafia NK Mishu? Mafia could've tried to push that wagon D2 and gain a mislynch. A good explanation would be that mafia tried to push that wagon, but felt that it really didn't get that much support and decided to NK Mishu since they probably though they couldn't manage to lynch him in the upcoming days. (This is a also a point in favour of Grape being mafia) There was also something else in my mind a moment ago, but I forgot it. >_> If you look at it that way, it can also be that they're just trying to create chaos by making everyone reconsider everything again instead of following the next read -> Mishu, who I think can make good defenses. |
Jan 1, 2017 6:48 PM
#720
aa-dono said: LucianRoy said: Stalling, I heard, is a classic scum Lucian.@gruffin I changed my mind. Don't wanna use too much data, but yeah, might talk about this later. Oh yeah, I gotta do that I guess. Also, meta changes. Also, I have no scum or town tells I'm aware of. Also, the person who told you that was probably evil. Also, who tf told you that? |
"If you look for a ghost, you'll find one." |
Jan 1, 2017 6:48 PM
#721
logic340 said: Gruffin said: Fair enough I am going to have to take some time between game to educate myself in the art of VCA and Interaction Analysis. logic340 said: @Gruffin can you do an interaction analysis for Mishu when you get back later? I need some coaching on using all these town tools to our advantage. Lord_Sithis said: What else you got for us today? Early suspects for D2? Anyone you would like to pressure?rosielovesanime said: Sonata said: Bursama said: Lord_Sithis said: @Bursama I've played with Mishu before, and I can say they're a very good player. Other people willing to confirm this claim? Can confirm. Catching up. Also @Lord_Sithis In what way was he a good player? @PentaFlare you basically asked me for #644 did you read it? Any thoughts or comments? Yup. I read it a few times. I gave it a little time to sink in since it was a lot of information in a single post. You seem to be mostly pointing out scummy things but then saying you will keep rosie at neutral because you think you might be forcing it too much. I get that. However, if you don't think you can apply the same approach to sorting rosie as you can to sorting other players, how would you go about determining if rosie is town should that be the case? I'm not very good at reading players playing their first game. The only tell I'm confident using with them is TMI. |
Be like this seal. It is a happy seal. ~Review Guidelines~ | ~Recommendation Guidelines~ | ~Mafia Society~ |
Jan 1, 2017 6:50 PM
#722
LucianRoy said: aa-dono said: LucianRoy said: @gruffin I changed my mind. Don't wanna use too much data, but yeah, might talk about this later. Oh yeah, I gotta do that I guess. Also, meta changes. Also, I have no scum or town tells I'm aware of. Also, the person who told you that was probably evil. Also, who tf told you that? You have one tell. If you aren't making jokes, then someone probably kidnapped you and is playing on your behalf. It is a "is this really Lucian playing" tell. |
Be like this seal. It is a happy seal. ~Review Guidelines~ | ~Recommendation Guidelines~ | ~Mafia Society~ |
Jan 1, 2017 6:51 PM
#723
logic340 said: The general summary I have from this post is..@PentaFlare here is what you asked for. rosielovesanime: #81 - Make my list of people I have never played with before #119 - Rosie is neutral for me no posts yet #211 - First post from rosie. Votes Grapefruit no reason given #212 - I ask if they have caught up or if #211 was an RVS vote #214 - Kit "Yay Rosie :3" asks if the vote is RVS and why Grapefruit #217 - Answers me and Kit. It's pretty much RVS they don't like something Grapefruit said early on and haven't shaken the feeling now that they are on page 5. "I hope you guys don't mind me being pretty bad, this is my first game" #218 - Lucian asks "what did Grapfruit say?" #221 - Lucian says "don't worry it's my first game too" #227 - rosie responds "it was their first post?" (in reference to Grapefruit) says it's hard to read tone, especially in early posts, but something set off alarms. #229 - Kit says it was RVS and vote has been moved see noting wrong #230 - rosie says that is what they read but no one else stuck out to them #249 - rosie Not Enough Information on my read list #252 - I ask for clarification if it was the very first post or first few posts from Grapefruit. #253 - Inactive player list. I don't understand rosie's vote on Grapefruit #254 - Grapefruit asks if rosie has caught up and if their opinions has changed #280 - I tell rosie their 4 posts aren't enough for me to go on. Ask their opinion on my train and Gruffin's case against me #281 - Sonata is scumreading rosie no real reason given #300 - Response to my post #280. Gives me and Gruffin town nod, scum nod to 40 #301 - My response to #300 I talk about griffin #322 - Gruffin says that newbie town easily faked but rosie sounds like they are trying to figure out how to analyze the game #339 - Lord_Sithis wants to know why Sonata's vote isn't on rosie if they scum read her #355 - Lord_Sithis asks about Sonata not voting rosie #369 - Rosie unvotes and says she wasn't to do that before voting again #372 - Sithis pings Sonata again about the voting rosie #377 - Sithis still going on about Sonata not voting for rosie #378 - Mishu feels Gruffin read is stronger than rosie, not speaking for Sonata #404 - Gruffin response to #369 asks rosie "waiting for what?" #413 - Response to #404 "Till I am able to write a good post and really look over the posts well again. I feel worried about repeating what others have said and getting name mixed up." #432 - Vote on 40, no new reasoning, says they didn't like 40's defense #435 - Sonata seems like they are willing to give rosie a pass for now since Gruffin is their strongest scum read #441 - Bursama says no scum team between 40 and rosie #447 - I question rosie about town read on me and Lucian. I also question their vote on 40 for being hypocritical #472 - I vote rosielovesanime in an attempt to get answers to my questions and feeling like they are potentially scum #476 - I ask Lucian how he feels about rosie #483 - Gruffin asks me why rosie is a better lynch than 40 #458 - Lucian response to #476 he thinks they need to be cop checked and that the 40 lynch may be too good to pass up #490 - I refer Gruffin to #447 for reasons to vote rosie #491 - Sithis rosie sheeping comment #493 - Gruffin tries to discredit my comparison by saying penta was town. Then says that rosie has the same behavior as 40. Asks why 40 gets a pass but not rosie #495 - Soren says that Sithis is casting shade on rosie with the sheeping comment #497 - Mishu seems to question Sithis questioning of rosie vote #502 - Me to Gruffin about rosie continue laying out why rosie is better than 40. Reference #472 #510 - Kit says at least rosie gave reads #516 - Gruffin says the rosie is contributing more than 40 and wants explanation from rosie D2 instead of right now #519 - Sithis says lynch mishu or rosie #520 - Rosie on my potential scum list #522 - Rosie responds to #447 now that I ask. Me and Lucian can't be anything less than neutral, we're better for the game even if we are scum, 40 and Grapefruit (two people I am not lynching D1), surprised I waited until #472 to vote for her, #523 - Kit warns rosie of talkative scum #530 - Still trying to recruit others to rosie backing off protecting _0x40_ incase he flipped scum #533 - Rosie response to Gruffin #516 "sorry I'll try harder", doesn't see a competing train due to 40 being 4 votes up, and doesn't feel they have anything to add that hasn't already been said. Ironically they agree with Sonata on D1 lynch. #535 - Kit tells rosie their opinion still matters even if it isn't anything new #537 - I explain why rosie and _0x40_ are not the same #539 - Gruffin mistakes me saying that rosie is a better lynch than 40 for rosie being a better lynch than her #540 - Kit answers my post #537 acknowledges that 40's play helped out more but still insists that reads from rosie are worth more. Feel rosie has tried to help more than 40 #543 - Mishu asks Sithis why only rosie stands out and not the others on the train. Says he is looking for reasons for rosie rather than finding them #549 - Sithis is not satisfied for rosie's reasons given for voting 40 #554 - Lucian says rosie gave reasons didn't like 40's defenst #561 - Sithis quotes rosie's reason and says it wasn't good enoug #565 - I ask Bursama to claify a statement about rosie and 40 scum #567 - Rosie responds to my post #537 she basically calls him scum for exhibiting behavior exhibited by many other players (Lucian and herself to name a few) #568 - Lucian says Sithis is posturing to use rosie of association upon 40's flip #569 - I explain to rosie how I see the arguments against 40 as bad town not mafia #572 - Sithis still explain why he doesn't like rosie's vote My Thoughts on specific posts #211 - The vote on Grapefruit seems pretty bogus they claim RVS but state that they are caught up (Vote happens on page 5 where they say they have read up to). Later the reason revealed it what Grapefruit said in their first post (joke about kit being a nice guy) hasn't sat well with them and they haven't shaken the feeling. #217 - Self doubt, I can say I am not really liking that but it is not alignment indicative. #300 - In this post they say that they see why people don't trust me but don't really explain why that is. They go on to say they don't think I am scum but again no reasons to support that statement. They can see why people don't trust me but I am not scum??? this is kind of a contradiction. Gruffin town at least says why they feel that way, no reason for the read on though. The comment to Sonata about not being able to act scum if they tried strikes me as odd since you don't have to act scum if you are scum. In the end I don't really think her answer really answers what I asked. #369 -The unvote is weird to me considering they had already postured to have their lynch on 40. #413 - I don't know if I remember this post at the time of their vote on _0x40_ or not but in hindsight this doesn't look good to me at all. #432 - Here is their vote for 40 it is 19 post later with nothing new to add themselves in between. (This is in reference to #413) I don't feel they did what they said they would try to do before placing that vote. Sithis calls it a sheep later on and I tend to agree with that sentiment. They didn't add their own thought or even rehash what others had said just vote 40 for weak defense against kit and kept it pushing. I spoke out against this vote, Sithis calls it a sheep, and Bursama who voted 40 calls it awkward. #516 - This is a pretty hard defense of rosie by Gruffin imo. Then they contradict themselves by giving rosie a pass until D2 while saying 40 needed to contribute more. I have to think about this right here. Scum team protecting each other?? Gruffin looks pretty bad for this imo. #522 - No reason or examples for the town or scum reads. Even backs off the town read saying neutral better if scum (??). We are not better for the game if scum we should be killed. #567 - More weak reasoning to lynch 40 All in all there is a lot of defense here for rosie who was never really in danger of being lynched today. I was the only on pushing that and my vote was there. I wish that Sonata and Sithis would have moved there with me as it would probably make me feel better about both of them. Basically I feel their reasons for voting 40 was a contradiction due to their own behavior being very similar, unlike Kit and Gruffin I don't feel that rosie's reads and vote added that as much as the interaction that 40 was a part of. I feel like rosie did things to appease Kit and Gruffin's idea of what scum hunting is. Other than not liking 40's defense against Kit she basically refused to give her own opinion on the situation. I don't feel she answered my questions about mine, Gruffin, Lucina, Grapefruit, and 40's alignments in a satisfactory manner and other than those 4 I really cannot say how she feel about the other 10 reaming players. I had plenty of time to read this over and I can honestly say my scumread on Rosie feels forced. When I look at what I have written in regards to rosie I can see a lost townie not knowing how to make there voice heard. Not going to fully town read them but neutral is fine. This is not indicative of rosie's alignment so much but I find it interesting that while 40 is getting lynched for not giving reads, rosie is getting a pass for refusing to give reasons for the reads she has give. This makes Kit and Gruffin look more scummy to me than rosie. "Gruffin feels scum to me." It seems like you have some sort of a scumread on Gruffin and you're painting her scum from interaction with others you deemed scum without a flip. Odd considering you're chasing after someone else when your eyes is on someone else. Not sure if this is something you did without thinking, or if it comes from scum mindset trying to frame Gruffin. Oh, my stance at this moment is - Gruffin is likely town. This is just based on the general feel of her posts. Analyzing comes later when I've read everything. |
Jan 1, 2017 6:53 PM
#724
PentaFlare said: LucianRoy said: aa-dono said: LucianRoy said: Stalling, I heard, is a classic scum Lucian.@gruffin I changed my mind. Don't wanna use too much data, but yeah, might talk about this later. Oh yeah, I gotta do that I guess. Also, meta changes. Also, I have no scum or town tells I'm aware of. Also, the person who told you that was probably evil. Also, who tf told you that? You have one tell. If you aren't making jokes, then someone probably kidnapped you and is playing on your behalf. It is a "is this really Lucian playing" tell. SEEE! even penta agrees with me. |
"If you look for a ghost, you'll find one." |
Jan 1, 2017 6:55 PM
#725
aa-dono said: Analyzing comes later when I've read everything. I've HEARD, from some VERY RELIABLE SOURCES, that Dono stalling is CLASSIC SCUM DONO!!! >no vote. |
"If you look for a ghost, you'll find one." |
Jan 1, 2017 6:55 PM
#726
Honestly I feel like everyone who was on the 40 train need to take a good look a their neighbor and see where the scum is. Why was the 40 lynch so easy? Who put the though out there and let it manifest. What did the train form in opposition to aren't these the questions that should be being asked? Didn't I ask some of these yesterday. I made mention of no one saving 40 outside of Lucian and I. Again I know that losing town can seem inevitable but we still need to keep searching. I feel like 6 people took the easy way out instead of doing their due diligence in securing a proper lynch. @Kit Look at me EoD. How many EoD's do we have to have like this together before I get you to listen to me? |
Proud Administrator of the D Gray Man FC and OnePunch-Man FC |
Jan 1, 2017 6:56 PM
#727
logic340 said: Honestly I feel like everyone who was on the 40 train need to take a good look a their neighbor and see where the scum is. Why was the 40 lynch so easy? Who put the though out there and let it manifest. What did the train form in opposition to aren't these the questions that should be being asked? Didn't I ask some of these yesterday. I made mention of no one saving 40 outside of Lucian and I. Again I know that losing town can seem inevitable but we still need to keep searching. I feel like 6 people took the easy way out instead of doing their due diligence in securing a proper lynch. @Kit Look at me EoD. How many EoD's do we have to have like this together before I get you to listen to me? PREACH |
"If you look for a ghost, you'll find one." |
Jan 1, 2017 6:56 PM
#728
aa-dono said: I guess I should let Logic defend himself on this, but...I don’t get the sense he is trying to frame me at all, but actually feels that I’m being scummy.The general summary I have from this post is.. "Gruffin feels scum to me." It seems like you have some sort of a scumread on Gruffin and you're painting her scum from interaction with others you deemed scum without a flip. Odd considering you're chasing after someone else when your eyes is on someone else. Not sure if this is something you did without thinking, or if it comes from scum mindset trying to frame Gruffin. Oh, my stance at this moment is - Gruffin is likely town. This is just based on the general feel of her posts. Analyzing comes later when I've read everything. When you catch up could you explain why you think I’m town? |
Jan 1, 2017 6:57 PM
#729
LucianRoy said: Hardly. In other games I played, Karote almost always predicted scum team but he was kept alive because he couldn't lead the lynch.PentaFlare said: I wouldn't be afraid of Mishu if I was mafia. Mishu is very keen and perceptive but I can't remember Mishu ever leading a lynch on anyone. I wouldn't see that as the likely cause, but that would depend on who the mafia are I guess. It is really hard to determine a cause for a night kill without knowing what the scum know. What if they were absurdly accurate with their D1 reads? Would you be scared of them then? |
Jan 1, 2017 6:58 PM
#730
@Gruffin to me the scum mindset (which I'm seeing) is to plant seeds for others to latch onto and run with so that you aren't driving the wagon and in the spotlight. The recurring lack of a vote is what stands out to me. As a town player you don't mind putting your vote behind your suspicions (Lucian and my convo day1 that led to me placing my vote on him) to start a wagon and build pressure. Scum doesn't want wagons to be tracked back to them, so waiting on it to gain momentum let's them hide their vote a bit. If Bursama had added much to the x40 case when they did eventually vote I wouldn't find this as suspicious. But they didn't, just jumped onto the train saying: "Oh well. Vote: _0x40_ I feel like this is the best option we have today, and even if he flips town, there's plenty of interactions." Scum. |
Jan 1, 2017 6:59 PM
#731
LucianRoy said: Alice and Jack. Uh-oh. they're evil? Tsk tsk tskaa-dono said: LucianRoy said: @gruffin I changed my mind. Don't wanna use too much data, but yeah, might talk about this later. Oh yeah, I gotta do that I guess. Also, meta changes. Also, I have no scum or town tells I'm aware of. Also, the person who told you that was probably evil. Also, who tf told you that? |
Jan 1, 2017 7:01 PM
#732
aa-dono said: LucianRoy said: Alice and Jack. Uh-oh. they're evil? Tsk tsk tskaa-dono said: LucianRoy said: Stalling, I heard, is a classic scum Lucian.@gruffin I changed my mind. Don't wanna use too much data, but yeah, might talk about this later. Oh yeah, I gotta do that I guess. Also, meta changes. Also, I have no scum or town tells I'm aware of. Also, the person who told you that was probably evil. Also, who tf told you that? Alice and Jack can't read me! If I can't read them, then they can't read me. |
"If you look for a ghost, you'll find one." |
Jan 1, 2017 7:01 PM
#733
Grapefruit21 said: ^ @Bursama I would like to see you respond to this as well.@Gruffin to me the scum mindset (which I'm seeing) is to plant seeds for others to latch onto and run with so that you aren't driving the wagon and in the spotlight. The recurring lack of a vote is what stands out to me. As a town player you don't mind putting your vote behind your suspicions (Lucian and my convo day1 that led to me placing my vote on him) to start a wagon and build pressure. Scum doesn't want wagons to be tracked back to them, so waiting on it to gain momentum let's them hide their vote a bit. If Bursama had added much to the x40 case when they did eventually vote I wouldn't find this as suspicious. But they didn't, just jumped onto the train saying: "Oh well. Vote: _0x40_ I feel like this is the best option we have today, and even if he flips town, there's plenty of interactions." Scum. |
Jan 1, 2017 7:02 PM
#734
LucianRoy said: Wow, offensive defense. Triggered by something?aa-dono said: Analyzing comes later when I've read everything. I've HEARD, from some VERY RELIABLE SOURCES, that Dono stalling is CLASSIC SCUM DONO!!! >no vote. |
Jan 1, 2017 7:03 PM
#735
logic340 said: The Bursama train is forming fast. I'll analyze the recent posts regarding that. Then I'll probably put some pressure, or just give some reads.Lord_Sithis said: What else you got for us today? Early suspects for D2? Anyone you would like to pressure?rosielovesanime said: Sonata said: Bursama said: Lord_Sithis said: @Bursama I've played with Mishu before, and I can say they're a very good player. Other people willing to confirm this claim? Can confirm. Catching up. Also @Lord_Sithis In what way was he a good player? |
Jan 1, 2017 7:06 PM
#736
aa-dono said: My scum read on rosie went neutral because of self admitted forcing the issue. The Gruffin stuff is what I noticed as I put that read together. I am already suspicious of her so maybe it's a little biased but it's there for you to criticize, agree, or disagree with. I don't know who is who so I put my thoughts out there so I can get some help composing them. I'm not even focused on rosie or Gruffin right now since she stays active and that situation will eventually work itself out. Sometimes a little discord is need to create bonds. I want to see you in action we need town unity and I want to hear more from Bursama. Let's come together for the sake of our share win condition.logic340 said: The general summary I have from this post is..@PentaFlare here is what you asked for. rosielovesanime: #81 - Make my list of people I have never played with before #119 - Rosie is neutral for me no posts yet #211 - First post from rosie. Votes Grapefruit no reason given #212 - I ask if they have caught up or if #211 was an RVS vote #214 - Kit "Yay Rosie :3" asks if the vote is RVS and why Grapefruit #217 - Answers me and Kit. It's pretty much RVS they don't like something Grapefruit said early on and haven't shaken the feeling now that they are on page 5. "I hope you guys don't mind me being pretty bad, this is my first game" #218 - Lucian asks "what did Grapfruit say?" #221 - Lucian says "don't worry it's my first game too" #227 - rosie responds "it was their first post?" (in reference to Grapefruit) says it's hard to read tone, especially in early posts, but something set off alarms. #229 - Kit says it was RVS and vote has been moved see noting wrong #230 - rosie says that is what they read but no one else stuck out to them #249 - rosie Not Enough Information on my read list #252 - I ask for clarification if it was the very first post or first few posts from Grapefruit. #253 - Inactive player list. I don't understand rosie's vote on Grapefruit #254 - Grapefruit asks if rosie has caught up and if their opinions has changed #280 - I tell rosie their 4 posts aren't enough for me to go on. Ask their opinion on my train and Gruffin's case against me #281 - Sonata is scumreading rosie no real reason given #300 - Response to my post #280. Gives me and Gruffin town nod, scum nod to 40 #301 - My response to #300 I talk about griffin #322 - Gruffin says that newbie town easily faked but rosie sounds like they are trying to figure out how to analyze the game #339 - Lord_Sithis wants to know why Sonata's vote isn't on rosie if they scum read her #355 - Lord_Sithis asks about Sonata not voting rosie #369 - Rosie unvotes and says she wasn't to do that before voting again #372 - Sithis pings Sonata again about the voting rosie #377 - Sithis still going on about Sonata not voting for rosie #378 - Mishu feels Gruffin read is stronger than rosie, not speaking for Sonata #404 - Gruffin response to #369 asks rosie "waiting for what?" #413 - Response to #404 "Till I am able to write a good post and really look over the posts well again. I feel worried about repeating what others have said and getting name mixed up." #432 - Vote on 40, no new reasoning, says they didn't like 40's defense #435 - Sonata seems like they are willing to give rosie a pass for now since Gruffin is their strongest scum read #441 - Bursama says no scum team between 40 and rosie #447 - I question rosie about town read on me and Lucian. I also question their vote on 40 for being hypocritical #472 - I vote rosielovesanime in an attempt to get answers to my questions and feeling like they are potentially scum #476 - I ask Lucian how he feels about rosie #483 - Gruffin asks me why rosie is a better lynch than 40 #458 - Lucian response to #476 he thinks they need to be cop checked and that the 40 lynch may be too good to pass up #490 - I refer Gruffin to #447 for reasons to vote rosie #491 - Sithis rosie sheeping comment #493 - Gruffin tries to discredit my comparison by saying penta was town. Then says that rosie has the same behavior as 40. Asks why 40 gets a pass but not rosie #495 - Soren says that Sithis is casting shade on rosie with the sheeping comment #497 - Mishu seems to question Sithis questioning of rosie vote #502 - Me to Gruffin about rosie continue laying out why rosie is better than 40. Reference #472 #510 - Kit says at least rosie gave reads #516 - Gruffin says the rosie is contributing more than 40 and wants explanation from rosie D2 instead of right now #519 - Sithis says lynch mishu or rosie #520 - Rosie on my potential scum list #522 - Rosie responds to #447 now that I ask. Me and Lucian can't be anything less than neutral, we're better for the game even if we are scum, 40 and Grapefruit (two people I am not lynching D1), surprised I waited until #472 to vote for her, #523 - Kit warns rosie of talkative scum #530 - Still trying to recruit others to rosie backing off protecting _0x40_ incase he flipped scum #533 - Rosie response to Gruffin #516 "sorry I'll try harder", doesn't see a competing train due to 40 being 4 votes up, and doesn't feel they have anything to add that hasn't already been said. Ironically they agree with Sonata on D1 lynch. #535 - Kit tells rosie their opinion still matters even if it isn't anything new #537 - I explain why rosie and _0x40_ are not the same #539 - Gruffin mistakes me saying that rosie is a better lynch than 40 for rosie being a better lynch than her #540 - Kit answers my post #537 acknowledges that 40's play helped out more but still insists that reads from rosie are worth more. Feel rosie has tried to help more than 40 #543 - Mishu asks Sithis why only rosie stands out and not the others on the train. Says he is looking for reasons for rosie rather than finding them #549 - Sithis is not satisfied for rosie's reasons given for voting 40 #554 - Lucian says rosie gave reasons didn't like 40's defenst #561 - Sithis quotes rosie's reason and says it wasn't good enoug #565 - I ask Bursama to claify a statement about rosie and 40 scum #567 - Rosie responds to my post #537 she basically calls him scum for exhibiting behavior exhibited by many other players (Lucian and herself to name a few) #568 - Lucian says Sithis is posturing to use rosie of association upon 40's flip #569 - I explain to rosie how I see the arguments against 40 as bad town not mafia #572 - Sithis still explain why he doesn't like rosie's vote My Thoughts on specific posts #211 - The vote on Grapefruit seems pretty bogus they claim RVS but state that they are caught up (Vote happens on page 5 where they say they have read up to). Later the reason revealed it what Grapefruit said in their first post (joke about kit being a nice guy) hasn't sat well with them and they haven't shaken the feeling. #217 - Self doubt, I can say I am not really liking that but it is not alignment indicative. #300 - In this post they say that they see why people don't trust me but don't really explain why that is. They go on to say they don't think I am scum but again no reasons to support that statement. They can see why people don't trust me but I am not scum??? this is kind of a contradiction. Gruffin town at least says why they feel that way, no reason for the read on though. The comment to Sonata about not being able to act scum if they tried strikes me as odd since you don't have to act scum if you are scum. In the end I don't really think her answer really answers what I asked. #369 -The unvote is weird to me considering they had already postured to have their lynch on 40. #413 - I don't know if I remember this post at the time of their vote on _0x40_ or not but in hindsight this doesn't look good to me at all. #432 - Here is their vote for 40 it is 19 post later with nothing new to add themselves in between. (This is in reference to #413) I don't feel they did what they said they would try to do before placing that vote. Sithis calls it a sheep later on and I tend to agree with that sentiment. They didn't add their own thought or even rehash what others had said just vote 40 for weak defense against kit and kept it pushing. I spoke out against this vote, Sithis calls it a sheep, and Bursama who voted 40 calls it awkward. #516 - This is a pretty hard defense of rosie by Gruffin imo. Then they contradict themselves by giving rosie a pass until D2 while saying 40 needed to contribute more. I have to think about this right here. Scum team protecting each other?? Gruffin looks pretty bad for this imo. #522 - No reason or examples for the town or scum reads. Even backs off the town read saying neutral better if scum (??). We are not better for the game if scum we should be killed. #567 - More weak reasoning to lynch 40 All in all there is a lot of defense here for rosie who was never really in danger of being lynched today. I was the only on pushing that and my vote was there. I wish that Sonata and Sithis would have moved there with me as it would probably make me feel better about both of them. Basically I feel their reasons for voting 40 was a contradiction due to their own behavior being very similar, unlike Kit and Gruffin I don't feel that rosie's reads and vote added that as much as the interaction that 40 was a part of. I feel like rosie did things to appease Kit and Gruffin's idea of what scum hunting is. Other than not liking 40's defense against Kit she basically refused to give her own opinion on the situation. I don't feel she answered my questions about mine, Gruffin, Lucina, Grapefruit, and 40's alignments in a satisfactory manner and other than those 4 I really cannot say how she feel about the other 10 reaming players. I had plenty of time to read this over and I can honestly say my scumread on Rosie feels forced. When I look at what I have written in regards to rosie I can see a lost townie not knowing how to make there voice heard. Not going to fully town read them but neutral is fine. This is not indicative of rosie's alignment so much but I find it interesting that while 40 is getting lynched for not giving reads, rosie is getting a pass for refusing to give reasons for the reads she has give. This makes Kit and Gruffin look more scummy to me than rosie. "Gruffin feels scum to me." It seems like you have some sort of a scumread on Gruffin and you're painting her scum from interaction with others you deemed scum without a flip. Odd considering you're chasing after someone else when your eyes is on someone else. Not sure if this is something you did without thinking, or if it comes from scum mindset trying to frame Gruffin. Oh, my stance at this moment is - Gruffin is likely town. This is just based on the general feel of her posts. Analyzing comes later when I've read everything. |
Proud Administrator of the D Gray Man FC and OnePunch-Man FC |
Jan 1, 2017 7:07 PM
#737
aa-dono said: LucianRoy said: Wow, offensive defense. Triggered by something?aa-dono said: Analyzing comes later when I've read everything. I've HEARD, from some VERY RELIABLE SOURCES, that Dono stalling is CLASSIC SCUM DONO!!! >no vote. You betcha. I am TRIGGERED. |
"If you look for a ghost, you'll find one." |
Jan 1, 2017 7:09 PM
#738
I guess more people is pointing out to the fact that Bursama's train is building up fast. I don't find him all that scummy just yet, but those in his train should stay a little longer and wait till he replies. There's a possibility, you guys caught scum and the buddies are trying to get you off a scum train. |
Jan 1, 2017 7:10 PM
#739
I agree with everyone saying we need to hear from Bursama, I am driving this train and feel good about it, but I don't want to lynch yet. We have lot's of time and there are lot's of players @bursama being foremost, who I want to hear from. I want to hear from @Soren you were driving the D1 train and it flipped town, have you looked back and had your reads change now that Mishu and x40 are townfirmed? |
Jan 1, 2017 7:11 PM
#740
aa-dono said: There's a possibility, you guys caught scum and the buddies are trying to get you off a scum train. Did I hear some pre-flip associatives? Or was that the wind? |
"If you look for a ghost, you'll find one." |
Jan 1, 2017 7:11 PM
#741
LucianRoy said: Scum, did you reply to me asking you about your reads in Day 1? I remember you saved it for later but I can't remember if I read any of that later.aa-dono said: LucianRoy said: aa-dono said: Analyzing comes later when I've read everything. I've HEARD, from some VERY RELIABLE SOURCES, that Dono stalling is CLASSIC SCUM DONO!!! >no vote. You betcha. I am TRIGGERED. |
Jan 1, 2017 7:13 PM
#742
Grapefruit21 said: I want to hear from @Soren you were driving the D1 train and it flipped town, have you looked back and had your reads change now that Mishu and x40 are townfirmed? Wasnt Kit leading the train on D1 against 40? It was his post that Soren agreed in the first place. |
Oyasumi_RosieJan 1, 2017 7:17 PM
Jan 1, 2017 7:17 PM
#743
rosielovesanime said: Grapefruit21 said: I want to hear from @Soren you were driving the D1 train and it flipped town, have you looked back and had your reads change now that Mishu and x40 are townfirmed? Wasnt Kit leading the train on D1 again 40? It was his post that Soren agreed in the first place. Soren did the heavy lifting working to build the consensus for the train, and recruiting people for it. |
Jan 1, 2017 7:17 PM
#744
LucianRoy said: It was an innocent wind.aa-dono said: There's a possibility, you guys caught scum and the buddies are trying to get you off a scum train. Did I hear some pre-flip associatives? Or was that the wind? But yeah, I guess it is a pre-flip thingy? Since there's two sides on Bursama's train. 1. People scumread him 2. People who think the train builds fast (not townread). See, if you're town, and you townread someone who is being voted against, then you'll probably try a little to show why his action wasn't scummy. But if you're scum and your buddy is on a train, then you'll either jump in for cred or make some remark about other town is making bad choices. |
Jan 1, 2017 7:17 PM
#745
aa-dono said: LucianRoy said: Scum, did you reply to me asking you about your reads in Day 1? I remember you saved it for later but I can't remember if I read any of that later.aa-dono said: LucianRoy said: Wow, offensive defense. Triggered by something?aa-dono said: Analyzing comes later when I've read everything. I've HEARD, from some VERY RELIABLE SOURCES, that Dono stalling is CLASSIC SCUM DONO!!! >no vote. You betcha. I am TRIGGERED. Yeah, I replied to it, but I didn't tag your name. Sorry. https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1580282&show=300#msg49148740 I basically said I dodged the question b/c I was thinking and couldn't decide on a real answer. I thought you were implying "why is grapefruit your largest scumlean" so I just gave my thoughts on why he wasn't that in the reply to your previous question. |
"If you look for a ghost, you'll find one." |
Jan 1, 2017 7:27 PM
#746
LucianRoy said: .............aa-dono said: LucianRoy said: aa-dono said: LucianRoy said: Wow, offensive defense. Triggered by something?aa-dono said: Analyzing comes later when I've read everything. I've HEARD, from some VERY RELIABLE SOURCES, that Dono stalling is CLASSIC SCUM DONO!!! >no vote. You betcha. I am TRIGGERED. Yeah, I replied to it, but I didn't tag your name. Sorry. https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1580282&show=300#msg49148740 I basically said I dodged the question b/c I was thinking and couldn't decide on a real answer. I thought you were implying "why is grapefruit your largest scumlean" so I just gave my thoughts on why he wasn't that in the reply to your previous question. This is a reply? Noted anyway. I'll be back after lunch. @logic340 |
Jan 1, 2017 7:30 PM
#747
This question is rhetorical? |
"If you look for a ghost, you'll find one." |
Jan 1, 2017 7:48 PM
#748
I've reached the point again where I'm too tired for the thinking a mafia game requires. I'll pick this back up in the morning. Train analysis will have to wait until then. |
Be like this seal. It is a happy seal. ~Review Guidelines~ | ~Recommendation Guidelines~ | ~Mafia Society~ |
Jan 1, 2017 7:57 PM
#749
Jan 1, 2017 8:02 PM
#750
Gruffin said: After last game I am all about attempting to build town unity. We had a great town block and could have wrecked that game had we just been able to get a few more people aboard a little bit sooner. I would like to try and recreate that here so not only will scum hunting be my focus but also clearing people so we can forge a proper alliance against the scum team. logic340 said: I hope so. Really what I want out of this right now is to be able to understand Bursama better. I think we can use this train on him to our advantage.I'm not too concerned about it's formation because I want to sort out Bursama early today and it seems others had the same idea. What I will be interested in is how it is taken apart if it come to that. I find it interesting that four of us came to the same conclusion but the two I don't trust happen to be you and kit this time. We need some town unity so maybe this is the start of that. What do you think of Grapefruit's reasoning for voting Bursama? I have no problem with them. I like the way that Grapefruit lays out what he is thinking it's easy to follow and understand, it's genuine and very transparent. I really like the fact that even though we have come to a similar conclusion we have different reasons, they also have good points supported by well organized and developed argument. PentaFlare said: In trying to determine rosie's alignment I will have to go based off their actions. Yesterday's actions were not to my liking we shall see what today brings. I can only do so much by myself their comes a point where we have to trust one another if we are going to achieve victory. To sort rosie I need to see more of her thought process when placing votes and I need her actions to match what she says. I understand it's on me to look at the player and figure out where they are coming from so we've already started down the path to mutual understanding.logic340 said: Gruffin said: logic340 said: I can't. ;-; Interaction analysis is more for scum flips or at least it is the way I do it, so I'm pretty useless in that regard until we catch at least one scum.@Gruffin can you do an interaction analysis for Mishu when you get back later? I need some coaching on using all these town tools to our advantage. Lord_Sithis said: rosielovesanime said: They helped town a lot. They were one of the most active players, always asking questions, always giving reads, always had a strategy. Huge asset to town.Sonata said: Bursama said: Lord_Sithis said: @Bursama I've played with Mishu before, and I can say they're a very good player. Other people willing to confirm this claim? Can confirm. Catching up. Also @Lord_Sithis In what way was he a good player? @PentaFlare you basically asked me for #644 did you read it? Any thoughts or comments? Yup. I read it a few times. I gave it a little time to sink in since it was a lot of information in a single post. You seem to be mostly pointing out scummy things but then saying you will keep rosie at neutral because you think you might be forcing it too much. I get that. However, if you don't think you can apply the same approach to sorting rosie as you can to sorting other players, how would you go about determining if rosie is town should that be the case? I'm not very good at reading players playing their first game. The only tell I'm confident using with them is TMI. |
Proud Administrator of the D Gray Man FC and OnePunch-Man FC |
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