| Seriously, is she right in the head? She said she likes Yuu but doesnt want to be liked back. And she's kinda scary at times too (chapter 13). But I admit that her strange attitude is the most interesting part of this manga even though I cant really understand her. |
| Touko finds the fact that Yuu never had someone she liked nor could feel romantic feelings towards anyone something new, special and enticing. Touko herself was used to being loved, praised, and eventually confessed to by multiple people; all things Yuu never bothered to do or show, which is news to Touko, who has never met anyone quite like her. At this point in the manga, after Yuu clearly having fallen for Touko already, Yuu knows this dilemma about her senpai and is afraid of showing feelings in fear Touko will stop finding her special for becoming "just another person who fell and confessed to Touko". Among her already conflicted mind that is drowning in a mix of confusion and desire, along with her lack of experience handling these emotions for the first time, Yuu can't help but to step away when she thinks she's 1) getting too close to Touko which shows she's romantically interested in her (which she is, but doesn't fully know herself) and will make Touko distance herself from her 2) not prepared to fully embrace the relationship as she's still in denial anyway. Which is sad, since Touko is falling for Yuu for what she is and not because of her inability to love. Or I'm just a faggot who isn't sleeping at 3 am and feels lonely. |
| Well I think what Nanami's doing is so cruel. She's not letting our MC to fall for her and yet she's all over her. Nanami might like the asexual yuu, but the girl clearly is lonely about being asexual and wants to fall in love.. but I guess Nanami doesnt know it. But even so, if she clearly wants yuu not to fall for her, then I doubt her feelings for yuu is real. I think she doesnt love her, just using her for her own convenience. |
| No one is asexual in this manga. But yes, it's a tad cruel and selfish. |
Mizusi said: No one is asexual in this manga. But yes, it's a tad cruel and selfish. I agree. Yuu is falling in love as we can see in the latest chapters. I wonder what will Nanami do. And there' s Sayaka too. |
| Sadly, Sayaka is doomed. She would never confess, and even if she did, she would get rejected right away. |
| Well, the poor girl suffers from trauma after her sister's death and her relatives don't even love her for her and want her to be her perfect sister. She grows up having to live up the ideal image that others (& herself) impose on her. Because of this, she came to see "being loved" as "a shackle" since it comes with expectations. This is why she falls for Yuu, whom she believes will not fall for her, will stay by her side, & allows her to be herself without expecting her to be perfect. Basically, Touko has the desire to be a normal girl, experiencing love and showing weaknesses. However, at the same time, she also desires to be her perfect sister (someone interprets that it's because she lacks self-love), which is characterized in her relationship with Sayaka, who allows her to keep up the ideal act and hide her weaknesses. Basically, Touko is struggling with an identity crisis. As for whether she really loves Yuu, I'd say she does like her romantically. But looking at the complications between their relationship, as Mizusi pointed out, with Yuu starting to fall for Touko, I also believe that Touko will only come to truly love Yuu when she finally is able to accept who she is first and change her definition of love. This will probably get resolved with the play... |
GaoGaoTama said: Well, the poor girl suffers from trauma after her sister's death and her relatives don't even love her for her and want her to be her perfect sister. She grows up having to live up the ideal image that others (& herself) impose on her. Because of this, she came to see "being loved" as "a shackle" since it comes with expectations. This is why she falls for Yuu, whom she believes will not fall for her, will stay by her side, & allows her to be herself without expecting her to be perfect. Basically, Touko has the desire to be a normal girl, experiencing love and showing weaknesses. However, at the same time, she also desires to be her perfect sister (someone interprets that it's because she lacks self-love), which is characterized in her relationship with Sayaka, who allows her to keep up the ideal act and hide her weaknesses. Basically, Touko is struggling with an identity crisis. As for whether she really loves Yuu, I'd say she does like her romantically. But looking at the complications between their relationship, as Mizusi pointed out, with Yuu starting to fall for Touko, I also believe that Touko will only come to truly love Yuu when she finally is able to accept who she is first and change her definition of love. This will probably get resolved with the play... I can't like a post more than this, you summed everything in such an easily understandable way so perfectly that it should be framed. I do think that, in the play, rather than the obvious preferred pairing on the play being Yuu x Touko, or Touko x Sayaka, there's still the chance of Maki-kun having one of the main roles, as that's the norm in mixed schools anyway. So, while I do think the play might have some impact on Touko, in a way she might come to realize she doesn't have to be anyone but herself instead of having to choose and pretend she is what she is not, I still think there's a lot more to come after it. |
Mizusi said: I can't like a post more than this, you summed everything in such an easily understandable way so perfectly that it should be framed. I do think that, in the play, rather than the obvious preferred pairing on the play being Yuu x Touko, or Touko x Sayaka, there's still the chance of Maki-kun having one of the main roles, as that's the norm in mixed schools anyway. So, while I do think the play might have some impact on Touko, in a way she might come to realize she doesn't have to be anyone but herself instead of having to choose and pretend she is what she is not, I still think there's a lot more to come after it. I'd say glasses guy will get lover role. Just cuz Maki only likes background grunts work lol However, I also think that the romance will not be central to the play as all 3 of the relationships will be equally important (Nakatani doesn't always restrict herself to romance after all, she likes exploring other form of interpersonal relationships, too). & yes, the play will serve as a resolution to, or at least a catalyst to solving, Touko's identity crisis. Then, after the play, I think we will have a proper resolution to the love triangle. Also, there's a fan theory that Touko might cut her hair back to the length she had when she was younger to signify her transformation. I like long-haired Touko, but I wouldn't mind if that theory comes true. |
GaoGaoTama said: This will probably get resolved with the play... So soon? I am hoping she'll find out about Sayaka's feelings first before coming to truly love Yuu. |
Erika___ said: So soon? I am hoping she'll find out about Sayaka's feelings first before coming to truly love Yuu. Ah, I meant Touko coming to term with who she is first will be resolved with the play. The love triangle will probably be resolved after that. |
| I think she does but doesn't truly understand what love is either just like Yuu. Touko is also beginning to explore the idea (of love) and already has a fear of failure. She's afraid of being hated or not being able to live up to others and her expectations and this belief/idea has carried over to her pursue and understanding of love because being in love with someone who can't love you back is easier since to put it simply you don't have to change who you are for the person. So It's not that she doesn't want Yuu to not like her back, she just doesn't want Yuu to hate her because if Yuu started to love her, Touko's fake persona will get in the way of that love and Yuu would want her to drop the fake persona or slowly lose it and Touko is definitely not ready for that (and even if she did I think it would have to be her battle and Yuu can only be there for support) which will lead to Yuu not liking that side of her then that dislike will eventually lead to hate or seperation. That's what Touko fears the most, being a lone. I also noticed some people calling Touko selfish but I don't think she is at all, I think it just seems that way because of the character/persona she has taken on and plays at school. The way she interacts and responses to others are through this persona and if you really look at her/the fake persona you would notice she lacks depth or is shallow (which Yuu's friend who's writing the script for the play notices) so when she does interact with Yuu while in character her immediate responses/actions either lack depth or Yuu or her bf see through it. When she's around Yuu, she's free to show more of herself or express herself, but sometimes those expressions and the fake persona become mixed or interact so some times what she says or does comes off as selfish or needy/self-centred. I think she's aware of this that's why she constantly made sure Yuu would accept her and stand by her while she played this character because she realizes how difficult it would be for someone she truly cared for/loved to stand her fake persona. tl;dr : Touko is also exploring love just like Yuu, I feel like we all forgot that both characters began not truly understanding or not having felt love before but Touko is the first to take the step to explore/understand love and she obviously still doesn't get it, only twisted love will make sense to someone like her. I also don't believe Touko is truly selfish however the fake persona she's taken on at school is very selfish and she's aware of this and doesn't care, however she made sure the people she cared for understood why she is the way she is. Anyway I love her for being so bold and taking and saying what she wants! |
vanillaskynetJan 19, 2017 6:40 AM
 |
| ^ You nail it on the idea that this manga is just as about Touko exploring what love is as it is with Yuu About Touko & whether she is selfish. It's a strong word, but to some extent, she kinda is, but at the same time, she's kinda not. She's not exactly selfish in the way where she forces everyone around her to follow her demand & cares absolutely nothing of their interests. But her desire to become her sister does affect both Yuu & Sayaka (you can say that she "shackles" both of them). Because they both want to stay by her side, both have to suppress/hide their feelings from her. Touko wants the relationships that these two provide for her, but she also wants them to remain in the ideals she set up for them (Sayaka to be her best friend that will not pry into her secrets & Yuu to be her love interest that will fully support her without questioning/expecting anything from her). & I agree with you that Touko understands completely that she's asking for the something unreasonable which is why she's cautious of/respects her relationships with both (like how she tries to get Yuu's permissions for everything she does). It's not rlly her forcing these relationships onto them, but more like she has their permissions to do it & so she goes along with it. Touko is a complex character & just calling her "selfish" doesn't really do her character justice. Idk, personally, I find her a great character & love her to death. |
vanillaskynet said: I also noticed some people calling Touko selfish but I don't think she is at all She is selfish. She doesn't listen to Yuu at all, about the play and about everything. She wanted Yuu to stay with her, to not fall in love with anyone else, to not hate her, but at the same time, she also doesnt want Yuu to fall for her. Don't get me wrong. Nanami is my favorite character in this manga but I'm not going to justify all her actions. I really think Nanami likes the indifferent Yuu, she doesn't want her to change. If Yuu were to change her personality and feelings, God knows if Nanami will still like her the same. |
| If she truly didn't listen to Yuu at all, she wouldn't worry about stepping out of the boundaries of the acceptable towards her. Sure, she could be worrying about this for her own sake of completely losing Yuu if she went too far, but I personally don't think that's the case. She is selfish, yes, but I strongly believe it's also related to the fact that she has had a very traumatizing childhood and doesn't know any better, not because she's aware of willingly making Yuu feel trapped. |
| I'd like to think that Yuu is still a potential Romantic Asexual. A fondness of physical contact and wanting to be with someone is not necessary a sign of sexuality. Although as an aromantic asexual myself I can't say my analysis holds much weight... maybe I'm just desperate for any representation of asexuality :P EDIT: And in response to TC, I think Nanami just wants a simple "no strings attached" relationship. Isn't that how a lot of millennials are these days? |
| This manga is not about asexuality. Yuu is not asexual. Just let her love Touko in peace and do whatever she wants with her, plz. I know some of you are eager for representation, but plz don't push your view on this manga that never tries to be a representation manga in the first place. It's about girls learning to love for the first time. End of story. |
GaoGaoTamaJan 1, 2017 4:50 PM
ramenshoujo said: I'd like to think that Yuu is still a potential Romantic Asexual. A fondness of physical contact and wanting to be with someone is not necessary a sign of sexuality. Although as an aromantic asexual myself I can't say my analysis holds much weight... maybe I'm just desperate for any representation of asexuality :P EDIT: And in response to TC, I think Nanami just wants a simple "no strings attached" relationship. Isn't that how a lot of millennials are these days? She isn't an ace anymore. She looked like one in the first chapter, but who can possibly resist Nanami's charm? No one, obviously. And that "no strings attached" relationship isn't possible with yuu. Nanami needs to think things over now, cause Yuu can't keep up with her anymore, we clearly saw that in chapter 18. |
GaoGaoTama said: This manga is not about asexuality. Yuu is not asexual. Just let her love Touko in peace and do whatever she wants with her, plz. I know some of you are eager for representation, but plz don't push your view on this manga that never tries to be a representation manga in the first place. It's about girls learning to love for the first time. End of story. Chill your pants matey. I'm not "pushing" my views onto an (inanimate) manga. I'm simply having my own views and sharing them with others. That's allowed right? It's not that far-fetched to say that Yuu wants to love Nanami romantically without necessarily wanting to have sex with her. I guess I know now how it feels to be a yuri shipper posting on the Hibike Euphonium forums "Don't push your pathetic delusions onto the anime! Kumiko and Reina are not GAY!!" lol. I mean, you still get to keep your views, and no-one's going to take that away from you. God forbid you discover the doujin community. |
ramenshoujo said: Chill your pants matey. I'm not "pushing" my views onto an (inanimate) manga. I'm simply having my own views and sharing them with others. That's allowed right? It's not that far-fetched to say that Yuu wants to love Nanami romantically without necessarily wanting to have sex with her. I guess I know now how it feels to be a yuri shipper posting on the Hibike Euphonium forums "Don't push your pathetic delusions onto the anime! Kumiko and Reina are not GAY!!" lol. I mean, you still get to keep your views, and no-one's going to take that away from you. God forbid you discover the doujin community. Not trying to sound triggered when I wrote that. Sorry I came out that way. But, I am tired of seeing so many people calling & seriously expecting Yuu to be asexual by the end of the manga when the manga itself doesn't even have that in mind in the first place. Like, the entire point of this series is to show how love is a gradual process & not an instant "sweeping you off your feet" moment like what has been presented in idealized shoujo manga/love songs that Yuu has been feeding her mind with throughout the years. So, to call/expect her to be asexual when she doesn't experience that idealized moment of spark, one is missing the entire point of the manga. Not saying that you can't have a view, but there really has been no evidences of Yuu not wanting sex. She's gradually falling head-over-heel in love & deep down starting to crave for more of Touko's advances. Going with the flow of the manga so far, I don't see why she would not start wanting more. I doubt this manga will go that far to depict NSFW stuffs (though who knows, Nakatani-sensei has once drawn a sex scene in one of her doujin before), so there, maybe the asexual view might not be disproved in the end. I'm sorry if I sound like I'm attacking you, I'm not. I have nothing against asexual representation. It's just that this manga is not it (at least not Yuu, Maki is debatable) |
GaoGaoTamaJan 2, 2017 10:43 AM
GaoGaoTama said: I'm sorry if I sound like I'm attacking you, I'm not. I have nothing against asexual representation. It's just that this manga is not it (at least not Yuu, Maki is debatable) We're cool. Yuu just sets off a lot of peoples' acedars, which is a rare thing in any form of media, so we talk about it. I'm not sure what Nakatani-sensei's end game is and I don't really recall any interview explaining what type of a story she's trying to write, but I just hope it doesn't end up falling back on the cliches of a typical romance. I believe most readers came into this expecting something unusual and with a bit more depth. That said. I must be the only one enjoying Yuu's painful squirming in the latest chapter (18). The sadist in me is loving it. |
ramenshoujo said: I'm not sure what Nakatani-sensei's end game is and I don't really recall any interview explaining what type of a story she's trying to write, but I just hope it doesn't end up falling back on the cliches of a typical romance. I believe most readers came into this expecting something unusual and with a bit more depth. She once said in an interview (I think the main one on the official website) that she wants to depict the feelings of someone who has never fallen in love before & even went to find a model for Yuu. But, her end goal has always been to write a yuri romance, as seen here: So far, Nakatani's track record is completely free of cliches. But, it also depends on what you define as cliches. YagaKimi has played around a lot with the common tropes & cliches found in yuri & romance in general. Things like Senpai x Kouhai, indirect kiss, love triangle with best friend, love interest with a tragic backstory, etc. but rather than playing along with those cliches, Nakatani presents them in a way that turns them on their heads. Mostly thanks to her subtle writing, in-depth focus on fleshing out the characters & their relationships, good sense of pacing, & a good grasp of her end goal (in oppose to just throwing in random drama as she writes like what other popular yuri manga are doing). Story-wise, YagaKimi is really nothing special. It's not doing anything groundbreaking or is it trying to be a groundbreaking story. So if readers come in expecting some new & creative story, it's not what this manga is offering. But, its subtle & clever writing does offer a fresh take on what might have turned out to be another typical yuri drama. Sure, a story of an asexual coming to term with who they are is unique & interesting, something we've never seen before in anime/manga, but I don't think YagaKimi should be discredited for not being that. |
GaoGaoTamaJan 3, 2017 11:58 PM
ramenshoujo said: It's not that far-fetched to say that Yuu wants to love Nanami romantically without necessarily wanting to have sex with her. I guess I know now how it feels to be a yuri shipper posting on the Hibike Euphonium forums "Don't push your pathetic delusions onto the anime! Kumiko and Reina are not GAY!!" lol. Please dont mention Sound Euphonium here, I am trying to move on. Lol And I think it's clear that yuu is interested in sex or at least being intimate with Nanami, she said that it feels good when Nanami tongue kissed her. She might be clueless but feelings don't lie. |
Erika___Jan 2, 2017 5:23 PM
Erika___ said: And I think it's clear that yuu is interested in sex or at least being intimate with Nanami, she said that it feels good when Nanami tongue kissed her. She might be clueless but feelings don't lie. Yup. Its obvious that Yuu is having romantic feelings for Nanami. I just want to clear up a general misconception here for those unfamiliar with aces, that we're not all completely against any form of physical intimacy. Romantic aces are known to like cuddling and sometimes even kissing. Some even go as far as to have sex and children with their partners (otherwise things tend not to turn out well with sexuals). |
| No one really gives a shit about your sexuality while reading YagaKimi. Just don't push it onto the series because you want to forcibly relate to characters that happen to not be asexual. |
Mizusi said: No one really gives a shit about your sexuality while reading YagaKimi. Just don't push it onto the series because you want to forcibly relate to characters that happen to not be asexual. Why don't you reply in a civil manner like everyone else here or piss-off. No one cares about your hissy fit either so don't try and butt in while I'm trading opinions with others. The subject would've ended there already. |
ramenshoujo said: Why don't you reply in a civil manner like everyone else here or piss-off. ramenshoujo said: piss-off huehue ramenshoujo said: No one cares about your hissy fit either so don't try and butt in while I'm trading opinions with others. The subject would've ended there already. Butting in is continuing the thread I was already in before you, I see. You clearly do as you're replying to it. My bad, miss, end of the subject regarding Yuu's homosexuality~ |
Mizusi said: end of the subject regarding Yuu's homosexuality~ Yuu confirmed gay. END |
svyatoslav said: I mostly agree with you characterization of Touko except I would say that her selfishness goes beyond your description. In the sense that she suspects that Sayaka likes her and uses that to keep Sayaka by her side as a friend/rival. With Yuu, Touko, perhaps subconsciously, knows that she is kind and soft and will go along with Touko's desire for a confidant/lover without requiring anything from Touko. The only reason she "asks" Yuu if this or that is ok is because even a soft person has a limit and she is trying to gauge where that is with Yuu. In my opinion it all stems from the fact that she blames herself and, like already mentioned here, lacks self-love as a result. With that she won't let anybody within her personal space past a certain point. At the same time she is still only a young girl and longs for friendship and love so she uses Sayaka's feelings and Yuu's soft personality to experience those feelings without getting too close and having to invest her all. This is likely because she knows that she will leave it all behind after high school (or at least that's her current plan). I'm not sure what her current end goal is but may be it has something to do with her sister's aspirations? Anyway, this is all just my conjecture as of ch 18. I like the series as it has just enough drama without going overboard and has depth without trying to be too mysterious, a good balance. Still, I feel that Touko, while an interesting character, is selfish and cruel. I don't think your interpretation is too far off from mine. The thing is I just view Touko's selfishness differently. I disagree that Touko suspects that Sayaka likes her, but I do think that Touko is taking advantage of both Sayaka's & Yuu's kindness. That's why I stated that she is shackling both of them. The thing about Touko is that she is not as aware of/as good in picking up others' feelings as much as she should (definitely not on Yuu's & Sayaka's level). I don't think she's intentionally doing so though. How I see it, she's the most childish out of the entire cast. Her selfishness is very childlike. It is there & it is hurting others around her, but it's not intentional or consciously so. I personally don't see her as this evil, cruel, selfish mastermind who is just using both Sayaka & Yuu to her end and is planning on discarding them both once she graduates. She's someone who doesn't really know who she is, what she wants to be, & what will become of her after the play is over & once she's done playing her sister. Like how both Yuu & Sayaka in chap 14 are wondering about what they'll do once Touko finally puts down her facade, I don't think Touko has really planned through what she'll do beyond the play yet. Her life till now has been built around her sister ideal & accomplishing what her sister couldn't & what the people around her expect her to do. Once all that is done, Touko will finally have to face reality as well as taking into consideration the relationships around her. She will have to grow up from her childishness once that time comes. What I'm trying to say is that yes, Touko is selfish, but I, myself, personally don't see it as a malicious kind of selfishness intrinsic to her character. I'm not saying that I endorse that side of her character since I do believe that it is something she has to and will grow out of. |
| ^ I think we have similar enough conclusions about Touko's overall character that the view as to whether she is oblivious or not about her own selfishness really comes down to personal judgments. So, let's just agree to disagree on that one. But, I do want to offer some different readings on some of the examples you point out. svyatoslav said: Just look how Touko reacts as soon as Yuu shows any indication that she has feeling for Touko. That one scene in chap 13 is probably one of the biggest points of contention in the series. I know there are others who read the scene the same way you did, seeing it as Touko giving Yuu the intimidating look. I personally, along with some others, read this scene as more of Yuu's fear projecting onto Touko's look. This chapter is told from Yuu's POV and it centers around the start of her conflicting feelings towards Touko. In the beginning of the chapter, we learn that Yuu understands from their confrontation in chap 10 that Touko wishes for her to not fall in love with her. Because of this, Yuu becomes more conscious of being around Touko to the point of almost trying to avoid her in that same chapter. Like when she is trying find someone who can offer to share an umbrella home, she decides against asking for Touko's help twice until Touko just shows up out of nowhere & offers to walk Yuu home anyway. So when we get to that scene when Yuu lets her feelings slip out and says that she's happy, the look that Touko gives Yuu in response in reality is probably more of a slightly confused look, but because this is from Yuu's POV & the setup of this chapter is that she is becoming conscious of what Touko wishes of her, when she sees that confused look, she herself (possibly unconsciously) fears that Touko will find out her feelings & this fear is visually projected onto what would have been a slightly confused look. I know this sounds like I'm just reading too much into things. But, I've seen others who read this scene the same way & knowing that Nakatani plays around a lot with POVs & visual storytelling in this series, I actually have a lot of confidence in this reading (you can disagree though, ofc). Also, as Sayaka told Yuu, Touko does have a plan for after the play, however, it is also true that she is going through an identity crisis and might change that (and probably will). In that scene, Yuu wonders whether Touko will finally give up on her facade once the play is over & Sayaka basically answers that she thinks that that's not Touko's goal. I don't think this really is her saying that Touko has a plan for what to do afterwards, but more like her saying that she thinks that Touko doesn't plan on giving up her ideal self. But ofc, this is just Sayaka's opinion & this very much reflects the nature of her relationship with Touko, which as I have stated in my first post in this thread, she's the one who supports Touko's ideal self while Yuu is the one who believes that Touko should just be herself. I'm sorry for the rambling, I guess I just have a lot to say about this series lol |
| ^ It was fun discussing this series with you, too! This is definitely a good series & I am glad that it's getting the popularity that it deserves (especially in Japan). |
vanita1234 said: nanami feels like she doesnt deserve to love thats why she doesnt want yuu too fall inlove with her nanami is also suicidal and she doesnt want yuu to get hurt if she would kill herself. where did you get her being suicidal from??? i'm very confused. it's not implied in anyway that nanami is suicidal |
|
Erika___ said: Mizusi said: No one is asexual in this manga. But yes, it's a tad cruel and selfish. I agree. Yuu is falling in love as we can see in the latest chapters. I wonder what will Nanami do. And there' s Sayaka too. I feel like you guys are a bit confused about what asexual means. Asexual people can still fall in love or want a romantic relationship. Some even have sex to make their partners happy. It is up to the person. Yuu shows interest in being intimate with Touko later on so I like to read her as demisexual - someone who develops an attraction after getting to know the person. Tldr; Touko has her problems and she is coping with them in a bad way. The whole you-can’t-fall-for-me thing will be discussed later and I really like the way they handle it. |
| ~ MALrewrite member ~ Manga, graphic novel & book reviews: http://mikoreads.wordpress.com/ |
More topics from this board
Poll: » Yagate Kimi ni Naru Chapter 45 Discussion ( 1 2 )Kosmonaut - Sep 26, 2019 |
79 |
by Notlikeuss
»»
Aug 14, 5:00 PM |
|
Poll: » Yagate Kimi ni Naru Chapter 50 DiscussionHiljainenSipuli - Oct 27, 2023 |
7 |
by useyourlegs
»»
Jan 24, 3:59 PM |
|
Poll: » Yagate Kimi ni Naru Chapter 44 Discussion ( 1 2 )-Mullerio- - Aug 26, 2019 |
77 |
by d2rkest
»»
Jan 15, 8:30 PM |
|
Poll: » Yagate Kimi ni Naru Chapter 42 DiscussionMarkerhead - Jun 28, 2019 |
17 |
by d2rkest
»»
Jan 15, 8:01 PM |
|
Poll: » Yagate Kimi ni Naru Chapter 40 DiscussionMarkerhead - Apr 26, 2019 |
42 |
by d2rkest
»»
Jan 15, 7:50 PM |