| After seeing a lot of stupid posts on this forum, mainly claiming Adult Gon is as strong as Meruem, I've decided to make this, though I doubt many willl actually read it, and will just jump in to make ignorant rhetorical claims, but there it is. 1- Let me paint you a picture first, between Pitou, Meruem and Netero's powers as shown by the series: Pitou --------------------------------- Netero -------------------------------- Meruem The line indicates great power difference. Now after we put in Adult Gon, we have 2 claims: A. Just strong enough to defeat Pitou Pitou ---- Gon -----------------------------Netero -----------------------------------Meruem B. As strong as or around Meruem's level Pitou ---------------------------------------Netero ----------------------------------Meruem=Gon Now answer this: 1. why would Gon need to be as far as Meruem to defeat Pitou? 2. Why would the vow even make him that strong? It's supposed to be a costly vow with a very specific boost for a specific enemy, that's why it's called restriction 2- Pitou said "His fangs can reach the King's throat", not "he's as strong as the King", as in "he's a threat", anything can be a threat. AIDS from buttsex can be a threat but it doesn't mean it can survive fucking Zero Hand easily. 3- He said the exact same thing in episode 125, so does that also mean Kid Gon is as strong as Meruem? 4- This statement itself is pretty much the character's opinion 5- Gon's body could not withstand Pitou's fangs, you think Pitou could do that? If Netero could not? The only person to ever be able to amputate Meruem, is Meruem himself. Knov's power being a special case of course. 6- Royal Guards overreact to every threat. Especially Pitou concerning Netero. Who was nothing to Meruem. Any one of these alone is enough to show how that claim makes no sense, so I'd like to hear any counter-argument. P.S Also, second thread explaining the advantages Gon had in the fight that would've turned out differently otherwise coming soon. |
| End Zionazism |
| Well the thing is we don't know what Gon's power level is so to assume without further evidence would be counterproductive. Which is why I don't. ^^ |
| Yes but according to how the show put it, being above Pitou still makes him far weaker than the others. |
| End Zionazism |
| This again? Mikasa said: Because being as strong as Meruem or close to that garantees victory while being as strong as Pitou means 50/50. Besides, it's not like Gon said I want to be as strong as Pitou, he said "I don't care anymore" and gave up everything so you are the one meking the baseless claim that he just happened to be as strong as Pitou which is laughable since no way would a fight two equals proceed like that.1. why would Gon need to be as far as Meruem to defeat Pitou? Mikasa said: It was costly, he sacrificed everything to get that power. It just so happened that with his immense potential, "everything" happened to be far stronger than Pitou. I don't see how you can consider that giving up his future, dreams, potential etc just to kill an one enemy is not costly.2. Why would the vow even make him that strong? It's supposed to be a costly vow with a very specific boost for a specific enemy, that's why it's called restriction Mikasa said: 2- Pitou said "His fangs can reach the King's throat", not "he's as strong as the King", as in "he's a threat", anything can be a threat. AIDS from buttsex can be a threat but it doesn't mean it can survive fucking Zero Hand easily.[/quote] Except, here she said " would have reached" not "can reach". http://www.mangapanda.com/207-50826-1/hunter-x-hunter/chapter-306.html This implies that Gon has transcended the stage of being a mere threat to the king. Feel free to provide any other translation between since all those I can find as well the Crunchyroll's have the mistranslation "he has reached the king" (although the sense is the same tbh). And yes, anything can be a threat, just like someone as powerful as the king, right? Mikasa said: Here, he instead said that his fangs "can reach" the king so here he's saying that Gon is a threat to king most likely referring to his sharp senses and determination.3- He said the exact same thing in episode 125, so does that also mean Kid Gon is as strong as Meruem? Mikasa said: Lol, that applies to you as well. We can easily dismiss your two points above then. I mean, we will still have the demonstration of Gon's power on Pitou which speaks much more than words.4- This statement itself is pretty much the character's opinion Mikasa said: Except Gon wasn't defending himself using nen anymore (Ren) since he thought she was dead (well, she technically was) and was lamenting on Kite's situation. This is proved by the fact that his hairs were not more floating in the air when he collapsed which is a sign of lack of nen use since that was the cause of the hair floating.5- Gon's body could not withstand Pitou's fangs, you think Pitou could do that? If Netero could not? The only person to ever be able to amputate Meruem, is Meruem himself. Knov's power being a special case of course. Pitou on the other hand was not only using nen but she was using Terpsichora which enhances her reflexes to the maximum. Add to that the fact that she was dead and it was stated by Phinks that when one dies while being filled with strong emotions against someone, the nen survives and becomes stronger while coming to defeat whoever is the cause of those emotions. So yes, everything is consistent with what I said, if Pitou also happens to attack Meruem with Nen (a stronger Pitou at that) while he doesn't protect himeself with Nen, he will be amputated as well. It's funny how you forget this while there has already been several examples like: -Kurapika being unable to cause any wound on Uvogin during their fight but being immediately capable of perforating him with each of his punches once he was set in a state of zetsu (which means no nen protection) -Killua having his finger fried by Gon's Jajanken during the dodgeball game because he wasn't protecting them using Nen in order to not slow down the ball. It was stated by Tsezugerra that if he created a coat of nen over them he would've not been wounded but he didn't do that for the reason above. -The whole point of Knuckle's APR was the fact that it could place Youpi in a state of Zetsu which could render it possible for the hunters to neutralise him. So, without his huge aura, Knuckle is easily a match for Youpi if he uses Nen while Youpi doesn't. etc Seriously, pay more attention. Mikasa said: 6- Royal Guards overreact to every threat. Especially Pitou concerning Netero. Who was nothing to Meruem. There's a difference between Pitou's reaction to Netero and her reaction to Gon. In the former, she was afraid for his safety as any other guard but still kept her cool enough to analyse the situation, use en to teleport to king and even had no qualms letting him go with Netero and Zeno while with Gon, she was completely lost herself attacking out of desperation and even thanked the Chimera ant gods for letting Gon pour his rage on her rather than on Meruem. Not the same thing at all. Mikasa said: Well, satisfied?Any one of these alone is enough to show how that claim makes no sense, so I'd like to hear any counter-argument. Besides, if you want to answer this, at least provide some sources since your conversation in the other thread about Gon's aura being the same seems dumb to me and yet you state it like it's fact despite the fact that the manga said otherwise as proved by Sounscape. |
Because being as strong as Meruem or close to that garantees victory while being as strong as Pitou means 50/50. Besides, it's not like Gon said I want to be as strong as Pitou, he said "I don't care anymore" and gave up everything so you are the one meking the baseless claim that he just happened to be as strong as Pitou which is laughable since no way would a fight two equals proceed like that. Uh huh, that's not a very strong argument. So he just jumped all the way so hard to Meruem's level way past Netero just to "guarantee" the win, and a ton other fights as well? Also, Pitou used Dr. Blythe twice, and it still wasn't as one-sided as I've already proven before. It was costly, he sacrificed everything to get that power. It just so happened that with his immense potential, "everything" happened to be far stronger than Pitou. I don't see how you can consider that giving up his future, dreams, potential etc just to kill an one enemy is not costly. So costly means he can get extra power just because? Yes I know what the costs are on HIS side, but to give him the rewards for it, it makes them seem like nothing. Except, here she said " would have reached" not "can reach". This implies that Gon has transcended the stage of being a mere threat to the king. Feel free to provide any other translation between since all those I can find as well the Crunchyroll's have the mistranslation "he has reached the king" (although the sense is the same tbh). And yes, anything can be a threat, just like someone as powerful as the king, right? "This one's fangs would have really reached the King" "I must stop him here", as in, he has the potential to one day, reach the King, if he continues like that. I must stop him now before he goes like that. He basically said what Hisoka said: He's got a huge potential. To which he was immediately thankful for that "now it's wasted on me, and there's no going back" And he also said that based on his sharpness, determination and intuition mostly, nothing for his power, so the point is, he said that for him being a thorn on their side, not a power house that could kill him. If he was this determined against him, in the future he could even be far more powerful. According to him that is. This, in turn, is similar to what Genthru said 'Even if he was determined like that, would he actually be insane enough to go through with it?" when he sacrificed his arms. This was building up on his actual determination on doing things. He won't stop no matter what, and that intimidated Genthru, and scared Pitou. Unlike Hisoka' Pitou wants to end this potential before it ripens whereas Hisoka likes to enjoy the challenger at their best. That's all there is to it regarding the "fangs" Lol, that applies to you as well. We can easily dismiss your two points above then. I mean, we will still have the demonstration of Gon's power on Pitou which speaks much more than words. Wait what? There is a difference between a character stating things based on guesstimates (that are misinterpreted by the fanbase, no less) and a reader who actually knows from an outside view what's going on from start to finish of the story. Since we are aware of the factual statements implied by the author himself. ] Except Gon wasn't defending himself using nen anymore (Ren) since he thought she was dead (well, she technically was) and was lamenting on Kite's situation. This is proved by the fact that his hairs were not more floating in the air when he collapsed which is a sign of lack of nen use since that was the cause of the hair floating. I don't think you understand at all how Nen works, it's implied 100% of the time that Ten is still in use subconsciously for nen users unless they otherwise use Zetsu, also, Run isn't for defence, it's for pulling out the aura and preparing it for usage. Defense is Ken which Gon has never, ever used past greed island because he had to focus on learning other things. In otherwords, the basic form of defense that he uses throughout the fight is Ten, and that represents his body's defenses, which are very fragile. Pitou on the other hand was not only using nen but she was using Terpsichora which enhances her reflexes to the maximum. Add to that the fact that she was dead and it was stated by Phinks that when one dies while being filled with strong emotions against someone, the nen survives and becomes stronger while coming to defeat whoever is the cause of those emotions. Which has absolutely nothing to do with his fangs attack. I've already explained to you what it meant to be "stronger" post-mortem, you chose to ignore it, so I won't bother again. So I'll continue with the fact that Pitou wasn't stronger physically. Also, you seriously need to pay attention, Terpsichora was not used to enhance reflexes whatsoever, there was nothing to even use relexes for , simply put, Pitou was dead, and his Nen was strong enough to drive out Terpsichore which was the only way it could MOVE HIS DEAD CORPSE, and fulfill the final emotion of protecting the King. So yes, everything is consistent with what I said, if Pitou also happens to attack Meruem with Nen (a stronger Pitou at that) while he doesn't protect himeself with Nen, he will be amputated as well. But as I explained the basics of nen, you clearly didn't understand the situation of how Gon lost his arm, so it's not consistent. -Kurapika being unable to cause any wound on Uvogin during their fight but being immediately capable of perforating him with each of his punches once he was set in a state of zetsu (which means no nen protection) Yes, Uvogin was forced into Zetsu, Nen users do not normally go into Zetsu whent they are calm/let their guard down. Zetsu in itself is a stress state, meaning you have to deliberately go there, people don't turn it off after fights and go Zetsu. I'm guessing you think everytime someone doesn't have animated Nen around him, you think he's in Zetsu mode? -Killua having his finger fried by Gon's Jajanken during the dodgeball game because he wasn't protecting them using Nen in order to not slow down the ball. It was stated by Tsezugerra that if he created a coat of nen over them he would've not been wounded but he didn't do that for the reason above. Pay attention, just because Pitou's attack was strong enough to lop Gon's arm off doesn't mean he went into Zetsu. There's a difference between Pitou's reaction to Netero and her reaction to Gon. In the former, she was afraid for his safety as any other guard but still kept her cool enough to analyse the situation, use en to teleport to king and even had no qualms letting him go with Netero and Zeno while with Gon, she was completely lost herself attacking out of desperation and even thanked the Chimera ant gods for letting Gon pour his rage on her rather than on Meruem. Not the same thing at all. Wait what the hell? Using En to teleport ? Are you serious here? Pitou completely lost herself, when she tried to get back to the palace, after that, she left on the King's own command. In Gon's case, it was the only job she had left, and she was weakened by two phases of Blythe. She admitted to him having potential and that he could be a danger, but that's what she would have said if anyone really killed her, provided they also die or can't use Nen anymore in the process. Well, satisfied? Not at all, that was a really terrible argument full of showcases of how people really don't udnerstand how Nen, or any of this really goes. Besides, if you want to answer this, at least provide some sources since your conversation in the other thread about Gon's aura being the same seems dumb to me and yet you state it like it's fact despite the fact that the manga said otherwise as proved by Sounscape. If you really need sources to know what Ken is, that Ten is a normal phase permanently switched ON unless otherwise, how Zetsu works, that Pitou can't teleport, and that going so far as to be as powerful as the King, to defeat his grunt is completely ridiculous, then all I can say is I'm impressed by where this fanbase is headed. You on the otherhand, failed to provide any evidence about how you need to be as strong as Meruem "to guarantee" that he win. Or anything else for that matter. |
| End Zionazism |
Mikasa said: 1- You do notice that you didn't counter it? Or better yet, you provided no argument yourself. I stand by my words since they make sense to me. 2-Yes, wasting what you could use during your entire life for several different purposes in just an instant seems pretty fair to me. I mean Kura gained a power that he would have NEVER got with training alone (Chain Jail). 3-Except Gon gave up everything (AS STATED BY HIMSELF) so if he is ever to reach the king in strength, then it's then and there unless you have a different definition of everything. Thanks for proving my point. 4-Why would he care about something that would've happened in dozens of years? Doesn't that mean that the king could easilty defeat him at the moment? You are the one making that claim, that's absolutely not what is written. Besides, if Pitou was so worried about a potential that Gon would only get in several years and that her statement had the same meaning as that in episode 125, then shouldn't that mean that she should've tried to kill Gon right there (episode 125) even if in spite of Komugi. I mean, even if it's the king's order she can still dosobey it and accept her punishment since the King>Komugi. Do you know what she didn't do that? Because ain't nobody got time to deal with stuff that might happen in the far future. really, this doesn't make any sense to me. 5-No, you are just taking your conjectures for the truth which is far from that. You are the only one misinterpreting things since you believe Pitou is worried about Gon reaching the king's strength in the future when that doesn't make an ounce of sense. 6- You are pretty much proving my point and it seems like YOU don't understand nen very well. How can something passive (ten) be an active defense? I can't collect all the various pages relative to nen teachings now but you haven't provided any sources either so bare with me. Ken was stated to be an advanced form of ren where 50% of the aura is aqually distributed over the body so that doesn't change my point. No, you're wrong, he isn't only using ten, that's only a baseless claim of yours again. If that is truly the case, then tell me what causes his hair to float which stopped when Pitou attacked him as shown here: It would be stupid to not defend yoourself in a nen fight. 7-Your "explanation" is yet another pointless twisting of words to suit your argument. I go by what was stated in the manga. I meant "limits" not reflexes as stated here: "Traverse your limits and dance". feel free to post another translation. 8-No you didn't. 9-I know the difference but I was just providing an example to prove my point that it is impossible for a weaker person to wound/amputate a stronger one. since you were wondering if Pitou could do the same to Meruem. Nen is not the same as ki. 10- What the hell? Where was it stated that Killua was in a state of zetsu mate? 11- No, but it shows that he had his nen protection down. 12-My bad, I meant she used En to locate the king, Netero and Zeno and then jumped to them. Pouf even commended her composture iirc. With Gon, she wasn't reasonable anymore. If someone killed her so effortlessly? Yeah, she would definitely say that which is my point between. 13- Yes, and you are part of those. 14- Dude, that's not how arguments work. I could as well say "if you need a source to confirm that the Gon is as strong as the king, then i don't know where this fanbase is headed". I shouldn't explain you why that leads to nowhere aspecially since ironically, you don't even get the things you consider "obvious". 15- It's not that he needs it, it's just that that's where his maximum potential is and I provided links(like the whole "his fangs would've reached the king") to support my claims. You on the other hand haven't provided a single source, twist the words in those that are provided and expect us to accept what you state as fact? Really? This is probably my longest discussion on powerlevels so unless if you have something NEW to add and provide some sources, I think I might stop here :) |
Agafin said: There's a difference between Pitou's reaction to Netero and her reaction to Gon. In the former, she was afraid for his safety as any other guard but still kept her cool enough to analyse the situation, use en to teleport to king and even had no qualms letting him go with Netero and Zeno while with Gon, she was completely lost herself attacking out of desperation and even thanked the Chimera ant gods for letting Gon pour his rage on her rather than on Meruem. Not the same thing at all. I'm sorry to butt in again but read this. http://www.mangareader.net/207-14276-9/hunter-x-hunter/chapter-267.html Mikasa step your game up you making a bad case :P |
| ''We don't know what kind of people we truly are until the moment before our deaths. As death comes to embrace you, you will realise what you are. That's what death is, don't you think?'' - Uchiha Itachi |
Agafin said: Mikasa said: 1- You do notice that you didn't counter it? Or better yet, you provided no argument yourself. I stand by my words since they make sense to me. 2-Yes, wasting what you could use during your entire life for several different purposes in just an instant seems pretty fair to me. I mean Kura gained a power that he would have NEVER got with training alone (Chain Jail). 3-Except Gon gave up everything (AS STATED BY HIMSELF) so if he is ever to reach the king in strength, then it's then and there unless you have a different definition of everything. Thanks for proving my point. 4-Why would he care about something that would've happened in dozens of years? Doesn't that mean that the king could easilty defeat him at the moment? You are the one making that claim, that's absolutely not what is written. Besides, if Pitou was so worried about a potential that Gon would only get in several years and that her statement had the same meaning as that in episode 125, then shouldn't that mean that she should've tried to kill Gon right there (episode 125) even if in spite of Komugi. I mean, even if it's the king's order she can still dosobey it and accept her punishment since the King>Komugi. Do you know what she didn't do that? Because ain't nobody got time to deal with stuff that might happen in the far future. really, this doesn't make any sense to me. 5-No, you are just taking your conjectures for the truth which is far from that. You are the only one misinterpreting things since you believe Pitou is worried about Gon reaching the king's strength in the future when that doesn't make an ounce of sense. 6- You are pretty much proving my point and it seems like YOU don't understand nen very well. How can something passive (ten) be an active defense? I can't collect all the various pages relative to nen teachings now but you haven't provided any sources either so bare with me. Ken was stated to be an advanced form of ren where 50% of the aura is aqually distributed over the body so that doesn't change my point. No, you're wrong, he isn't only using ten, that's only a baseless claim of yours again. If that is truly the case, then tell me what causes his hair to float which stopped when Pitou attacked him as shown here: It would be stupid to not defend yoourself in a nen fight. 7-Your "explanation" is yet another pointless twisting of words to suit your argument. I go by what was stated in the manga. I meant "limits" not reflexes as stated here: "Traverse your limits and dance". feel free to post another translation. 8-No you didn't. 9-I know the difference but I was just providing an example to prove my point that it is impossible for a weaker person to wound/amputate a stronger one. since you were wondering if Pitou could do the same to Meruem. Nen is not the same as ki. 10- What the hell? Where was it stated that Killua was in a state of zetsu mate? 11- No, but it shows that he had his nen protection down. 12-My bad, I meant she used En to locate the king, Netero and Zeno and then jumped to them. Pouf even commended her composture iirc. With Gon, she wasn't reasonable anymore. If someone killed her so effortlessly? Yeah, she would definitely say that which is my point between. 13- Yes, and you are part of those. 14- Dude, that's not how arguments work. I could as well say "if you need a source to confirm that the Gon is as strong as the king, then i don't know where this fanbase is headed". I shouldn't explain you why that leads to nowhere aspecially since ironically, you don't even get the things you consider "obvious". 15- It's not that he needs it, it's just that that's where his maximum potential is and I provided links(like the whole "his fangs would've reached the king") to support my claims. You on the other hand haven't provided a single source, twist the words in those that are provided and expect us to accept what you state as fact? Really? This is probably my longest discussion on powerlevels so unless if you have something NEW to add and provide some sources, I think I might stop here :) Look, before I begin, I would ask you to stop with this rude, immature and quite trollish attitude of "I'm gonna preemptively declare that I'm gonna tl;dr your reply if I can't counter, and pretend you did not provide anything", it's quite frustrating and makes the fanbase look bad Also, SaSa, please stop baiting. 1- I did not counter it indeed, because I never considered it a counter in the first place. Please explain to me first how the vow would be so generous as to push him all the way up to Meruem, just to defeat Pitou? That defeats all logic. There's no sense in "Oh so he can guarantee the win". What win? Where is the sense in that? Why not make him as strong as Netero then? Netero was easily stronger than Pitou, if Netero wasn't so jarringly in the middle, then the difference between Meruem and Pitou would be more abstract and you might have a shot at this, but Netero is right in the middle to show how illogical this argument is. 2. and 3. Economics 101: Profit = Revenue - Costs. See, your problem is that you completely ignore my posts and just talk on: I already acknowledged what the costs were, the problem is that if what you claim is true, then what he gained was so much, that the cost would mean jack shit regardless of how much it was It's like saying "Oh, I'm gonna pay ALL I HAVE, a 100$, ALL OF IT! to gain a Bugatti"... How tragic. Get it? The power of being as strong as the King is so much of a gain, that the cost of not using Nen is just not gonna cut it. If this claim is true then what people say is true, it is quite the asspull In summary: The cost is completely disproportionate to the revenue, and Gon got one hell of a deal according to this claim. 4. Because that's his job? They intend to rule the world, and they are to have countless enemies. Gon could be a very dangerous one, in the distant future of course. Again, this is how his thought process is. We don't know if Gon's gonna be like that. Pitou doesn't act the same way as Pouf. That's why he didn't disobey him at the time. Especially not with that aura he had. She simply thought that losing the girl to Meruem would be as much a damage to his character as any physical injury. After he knew Komugi was "rescued" by Pouf, he could easily go all out, there were no strings attached, no hostage or a patient to hold back for. 5. So I'm misinterpreting when I think that "This one's fangs WOULD HAVE reached the King's throat" didn't mean "lolz over 9000 King's level"? So first physics, then economics, now grammar? Okay, the third conditional of the English language is: With the third conditional we talk about the past. We talk about a condition in the past that did not happen. That is why there is no possibility for this condition. The third conditional is also like a dream, but with no possibility of the dream coming true. Meaning: If Gon had actually went on, refined his potential and realized it over time, he would have been as strong as the King. So you still need to provide any logical explanation as to why you people think this means "he reached the King's power level" 6. Poor choice of words maybe but I don't think it was that hard to get "permanently active" has the same meaning as passive more or less, which is what I meant. I clearly stated that it was ON the entire time. You claimed it was turned off, that he was in a Zetsu state when he lost his arms, as if it was something people have to keep active. First of all, you're the one who was claiming he used Ken or whatever you mistook it for. Second, his hair moving was simply a visual effects depicting physics, you know that thing you should learn. Killua pushed him aside and his hair whipped along. The same happened when he Punched Pitou the first time:  If Gon does a back-flip you can be sure as hell his hair won't be up either. Yes it's stupid not to defend yourself, but like I said, Ten is the basic defense, which represents how "sturdy" his body is. You claim that his arm was only cut off because he was below his basic defense. Which isn't true. He's always in Ten in a normal state. In fact, being in Ten is a far more better defense than using a Gyo Punch and leaving the rest of the body unprotected. So Pitou demonstrated that he could easily slice through Adult Gon's usual, default strength. You could argue, that any fighter, including Gon, could block it or at least have had augmented his defense by using Ken, or Gyo on the body part being attacked, but the same argument can be said for Pitou when he took the punch/kick. The funny thing is, Pitou using Terpsichora the first time, one could argue he put a lot of Nen into it, that his entire body was lacking in Nen anyway, so Pitou had to rely only on his Ant body's structure to take the blows. 7- Ironically your own previous image counters it, not by poetic wording of Pitou, but the Narrator himself. "was clad in even a more monstrous aura", it could most likely mean more malicious, not more powerful. Terpsichore could strengthen his physical power (MUSCLES), meaning he can leap faster than before, they EVEN show his muscles tensing, it says or shows NOTHING about his claws sharpening, which is the attack we're discussing here. 8. Okay, then if you're so stubbornly confident about it, prove that he had no Nen on him when he was crying/getting attacked. You do realize Zetsu has a specially drawn effect? And why would he deliberately go Zetsu/Stealth mode just to cry? 9. Nen not being like Ki is exactly why a weaker person COULD actually cut off an arm. But in Meruem's case, is body is so strong to survive so much, that even Pitou's attack can't slice it off. 10. Biscuit and Tsez explained how Killua was tring reduce the amount of aura on his arms to a minimal (near-Zetsu) so that there wouldn't be any friction when Gon hits the ball. You are using examples of people who were injured due to lack of Nen, to justify how Gon was injured, but never really proved how Gon himself was using Zetsu or "had no nen" on him. 11. What ne protection did he have ON in the first place? So you agree that he was still in TEN when he was attacked? Which is as we all know, the basic defense. Saying "he could have had better defenses if he used Ken, Gyo or whatever" goes both ways, I've explained it three times now. And we can even say that this defense can be cancelled out and not count if the enemy used an equally fortified attack like KO. (+3 defense is a good thing, but if the enemy also had a +3 attack then it's back to the same thing) 12. Explained in p#4 13. Based on what? I never claimed Pitou could teleport, or that Ken is the same as Ren, honestly, are you really so stubborn as to not admit that you've made so many msitakes regarding the explanations of Nen? You're just snapping back at me with this "No, you are!" attitude, please stop. It's very immature. 14. Sources are need when someone makes a claim such as "Gon didn't have Nen on when he was attacked" or "Gon was as strong as Meruem" Need a source for the definition of Ren and Ken? Look it up. Because what you said are claims that are not parts of an exposition, therefore require citation. The basics of Nen are exposition, they are very straight-forward and aren't really obscure, not to mention how easily accessible they are, just go to a Wiki and bam, there are the definitions for them. Besides, who the hell doesn't know what Ken is? 15. What source are you talking about? The link you sent me is the link I'm also using as my own source of argument, the reason I haven't provided the link is because you already posted it for me, now we are arguing past that, I already explained what the metaphor meant and even gave you a grammar lesson, you just insist on saying "No that line means he reached the King's level". |
| End Zionazism |
| Mikasa, this shall be my last reply since I don't think any powerlevel discussion deservesd so much effort so we might just agree to disagree. 1-What exactly are you even asking here? He made a restriction and it gave him that result. It's not that he chose to be as strong as Meruem, it's more like his sacrifice let him to that. Not everyone doing the sacrifice will reach that power. Should i also explain to you why Kurapika's vow was as "generous" as to give him a chain unbreakable by the troupe? 2-3 Well, to me, it's more similar to, say: a very intelligent and talented guy, a genius who is promised to a bright future, academic success etc and decides to give up all that just to pass an ONE exam that he's not sure to pass by aging himself (or just his brain) to a point where he's at his maximum potential (in this case potential is intelligence, general knowledge etc) and then that's it, he's as good as death and all that bright future vanishes. Your stance being that it gave him exactly what he needs to pass the exam, mine being that his maximum potential just so happens to be FAR higher than that needed to pass that exam since he's a genius afterall. So as far as I'm concerned, it was even too harsh. i think we will never agree on this. 4- Except that doesn't make sense to me. If he has the potential to be that strong in the future (the distant one at that) then why would she be afraid now? If anything, she should be relieved since she can easily kill him then and there once Komugi is safe. 5- "Meaning: If Gon had actually went on, refined his potential and realized it over time, he would have been as strong as the King." This exactly what i mean by it's your own interpretation. Why according to you is it referring to the far future? Why can't it mean that Adult Gon would have actually been a serious threat or even mortally injure the King if he had gone for the King rather than her? Do you remember that a few seconds ago, when Gon dodged her attack and dissappeared to the other room, she was worried about the fact that he might have headed to the king? Your interpretation=/= fact. 6- Not so sure why you would apply the laws of physics to a fictional situation like this but even if we do, in your picture Gon's hairs are still abnormally rigid while in mine, they have spread out like you would expect from them if no force was pulling them upwards. 7- ""more monstruous aura". Thanks, that was my point. Funny that you mention the laws of Physics and yet don't even apply them all through. You do know that Terpsichora increasing Pitou's speed actually makes her attack stronger right? For a moving body, K.E=1/2mv² where K.E is the kinetic energy, m the mass and the v the velocity. that's why me throwing a bullet at you will likely not hurt you but shooting the same bullet with a gun sure would. so, that entire sentence doesn't make sense if the laws of Physics are the same in their world as ours (which is what you've been assuming so i guess you agree). 8-I never said that he went Zetsu, just that he didn't have any activedefense 9- Well, that can't be proved but as far as I'm concerned I think she could. Then again, whether she can or can't will only reflect Meruem's durability compared to Gon, not the strength. 10-Just like you never proved yourself that Killua was under zetsu right? Zetsu can either be used on all the whole body ( usually to conceal your body) or on a part of the body but in this case the withdrawn aura is used migrates to another portion for example while using Ko. So, where exactly does that aura from Killua gone to? besides, you just made up that "near zetsu" stuff, either a part is under zetsu or not, there's no middle ground. So, no nowhere was it stated Killua's hands were under zetsu. 11- An experienced nen user can easily manipulate the flow of aura around his/her body and it would be careless for them to keep that same amount the same during a fight as whe nsleeping (ten) so the shroud of aura surrounding someone when he's fighting a nen user isn't the same as when he's not (or when he's fighting against a power comparable to that of a nen user). A good example of that is the fight of Uvo against those mafia dudes. Once, one decided to use a bazooka, he increased the aura around him. That's what I'm talking about. 12-Concession accepted. 13- Pitou teleporting wasn't what I meant and i don't know where you got from me that Ken and ren are the same. i made about as many mistakesas you but at the very least I can easily correct myself since i'm not stubborn enough to think an interpretation=a fact. 14- You mean like the source you provided for this assertion: "Gon's body could not withstand Pitou's fangs, you think Pitou could do that? If Netero could not? The only person to ever be able to amputate Meruem, is Meruem himself."? Or was that part of an exposition? XD 15- Okay. Well, Mikasa, this was an... um interesting discussion but this shall be my last reply since I don't think any powerlevel discussion deserves so much effort so we might just agree to disagree. |
| Funny how you keep pulling the 'your own interpretation' card when your entire argument stands on what you thought a METAPHOR meant , whereas my argument is how meaningless it is because it is up for interpretation, and proceeded to provide other explanations. Agafin said: Mikasa, this shall be my last reply since I don't think any powerlevel discussion deservesd so much effort so we might just agree to disagree. 1-What exactly are you even asking here? He made a restriction and it gave him that result. It's not that he chose to be as strong as Meruem, it's more like his sacrifice let him to that. Not everyone doing the sacrifice will reach that power. Should i also explain to you why Kurapika's vow was as "generous" as to give him a chain unbreakable by the troupe? 2-3 Well, to me, it's more similar to, say: a very intelligent and talented guy, a genius who is promised to a bright future, academic success etc and decides to give up all that just to pass an ONE exam that he's not sure to pass by aging himself (or just his brain) to a point where he's at his maximum potential (in this case potential is intelligence, general knowledge etc) and then that's it, he's as good as death and all that bright future vanishes. Your stance being that it gave him exactly what he needs to pass the exam, mine being that his maximum potential just so happens to be FAR higher than that needed to pass that exam since he's a genius afterall. So as far as I'm concerned, it was even too harsh. i think we will never agree on this. 4- Except that doesn't make sense to me. If he has the potential to be that strong in the future (the distant one at that) then why would she be afraid now? If anything, she should be relieved since she can easily kill him then and there once Komugi is safe. 5- "Meaning: If Gon had actually went on, refined his potential and realized it over time, he would have been as strong as the King." This exactly what i mean by it's your own interpretation. Why according to you is it referring to the far future? Why can't it mean that Adult Gon would have actually been a serious threat or even mortally injure the King if he had gone for the King rather than her? Do you remember that a few seconds ago, when Gon dodged her attack and dissappeared to the other room, she was worried about the fact that he might have headed to the king? Your interpretation=/= fact. 6- Not so sure why you would apply the laws of physics to a fictional situation like this but even if we do, in your picture Gon's hairs are still abnormally rigid while in mine, they have spread out like you would expect from them if no force was pulling them upwards. 7- ""more monstruous aura". Thanks, that was my point. Funny that you mention the laws of Physics and yet don't even apply them all through. You do know that Terpsichora increasing Pitou's speed actually makes her attack stronger right? For a moving body, K.E=1/2mv² where K.E is the kinetic energy, m the mass and the v the velocity. that's why me throwing a bullet at you will likely not hurt you but shooting the same bullet with a gun sure would. so, that entire sentence doesn't make sense if the laws of Physics are the same in their world as ours (which is what you've been assuming so i guess you agree). 8-I never said that he went Zetsu, just that he didn't have any activedefense 9- Well, that can't be proved but as far as I'm concerned I think she could. Then again, whether she can or can't will only reflect Meruem's durability compared to Gon, not the strength. 10-Just like you never proved yourself that Killua was under zetsu right? Zetsu can either be used on all the whole body ( usually to conceal your body) or on a part of the body but in this case the withdrawn aura is used migrates to another portion for example while using Ko. So, where exactly does that aura from Killua gone to? besides, you just made up that "near zetsu" stuff, either a part is under zetsu or not, there's no middle ground. So, no nowhere was it stated Killua's hands were under zetsu. 11- An experienced nen user can easily manipulate the flow of aura around his/her body and it would be careless for them to keep that same amount the same during a fight as whe nsleeping (ten) so the shroud of aura surrounding someone when he's fighting a nen user isn't the same as when he's not (or when he's fighting against a power comparable to that of a nen user). A good example of that is the fight of Uvo against those mafia dudes. Once, one decided to use a bazooka, he increased the aura around him. That's what I'm talking about. 12-Concession accepted. 13- Pitou teleporting wasn't what I meant and i don't know where you got from me that Ken and ren are the same. i made about as many mistakesas you but at the very least I can easily correct myself since i'm not stubborn enough to think an interpretation=a fact. 14- You mean like the source you provided for this assertion: "Gon's body could not withstand Pitou's fangs, you think Pitou could do that? If Netero could not? The only person to ever be able to amputate Meruem, is Meruem himself."? Or was that part of an exposition? XD 15- Okay. Well, Mikasa, this was an... um interesting discussion but this shall be my last reply since I don't think any powerlevel discussion deserves so much effort so we might just agree to disagree. 1-2-3, we all know for a fact all he sacrificed was Nen, temporarily. Sacrificing all of what he was would be plausible if what he gained was to be stronger than Pitou, but not if it's also enough to be stronger the Netero, and as strong as Meruem. And since you like to Bring up Kurapika's vow, it was never, ever as generous. If your claim is true, Gon is more powerful than ANYTHING weaker than Meruem , Kurapika's chains don't make him stronger than (Phantom troupe AND DESCENDING . It was absolutely, strictly for them. Someone far weaker than a troupe member can easily kill him in that regard, since the Zetsu chain doesn't work on them, the biggest advantage he had against Uvogin. Meanwhile, Gon's power up makes him simply more powerful, as you say, and reach the King's level, there's no specification here, and it shot very high up in the sky that he can blitz the entire HxH verse minus Meruem who he can technically still defeat according to your logic. And you're still dodging the thorn in your argument, Netero being in-between, for a very good reason. It automatically debunks that "guarantee" logic. 4- Because of what could happen if she didn't kill him? That's the point, that's why she tried to kill him in the first place. His potential threat. She was relieved once the threat was over; him using everything on her. 5- Because of the wording, I already explained to you the grammatical implications how he worded it. If he said "He CAN/MAY be a threat to the King", then you might stand a slight chance, albeit still wrong due to 1) it still being his own overzealous opinion 2) being a threat doesn't mean being as strong. As I mentioned. 6. Your reading comprehension is the problem once again: I'm not saying his hair isn't being held up by aura, I'm saying just because it MOVED doesn't mean there's lack of aura. It could move for any other reason. Your picture also has it pretty rigid minus a few stands like my picture. So... your point? Also happened multiple other times, during attacks as well. And applying laws of physics > making up interpretations and baseless uneducated guesses. 7. Gee, thanks for the great equation, and completely missing the point. Which I already explained in the other post. It's not about how fast he is during that lunge, it's about how fast his actual hit would be. Which is definitely not the same as the speed of that leap attack. In close range battle, he can't use the attack to the same extent, nor would it be effective due to the fact that he needs to tense and charge his muscles. His punches, scraches, or whatever, would definitely not me the same. If you truly understand physics, you'd not even argue the fact that the velocity and force of his attack was not reliant at all on his arms' speed, but his leap and the momentum of which. 8. And Pitou didn't have any activeattack so like I said, it does both ways. 9. His body was sturdy enough to not be completely incinerated by a close nuclear war-head so yeah, definitely can't. 10. Do you even know how Nen works? Ko focuses Nen to one part of the body, and by logic of conservation of whatever it becomes smaller on every other part. Killua needed to reduce resistance to the ball, so he used Gyo to focus on on (Body minus hands) as to reduce nen there, that's what it means to be in "near-zetsu" It's not a made up term, it logically implies a minimum amount of Aura, which is what happened. 11. What Uvo used was Ken, (increase the aura in Ren form but still trap it in a shroud of Ten), and yeah, that could probably save him... except if he can use Ken, we have to assume Pitou used Ko on his fangs, and they cancel out. Funy how you thing some extra aura can tank Pitou but Meruem's body can't. 12. I'll concede to these childish jabs, that's for sure. 13. Your mistakes are what's your argument is build on. I provided logical points made on how Nen works, and precedents. Now you're just parroting me, I call you stubborn for sticking to interpretation, you say that back as a buzzword So yes, I WOULD say his powerlevel being stated as a fact. Because all you ever argued about was your own interpretation. |
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| To sum up, Arguments pro as strong as Meruem 1. A metaphor "Gon's fangs would have reached the King's throat", interprative Arguments anti- 1. The metaphor stated is a bizarre estimate, and if considered, still grammatically implies otherwise. 2. Logical flaw: Vying to be strong enough to beat Pitou, and becoming stronger than Netero. 3. Aura overdue, too much gained for what was actually wished for. 4. In-character consistency: Royal Guards overreaction |
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| I realize this is an old thread. But I have an objection. Currently I'm at episode 102 (rewatching) because the first time I watched, I wasn't attentive enough to the little details. So my question is. How exactly did you determine that Netero is stronger than Pitou, @Mikasa? In episode 86, at around 16:45 mark, Netero claims that Pitou is stronger than Netero currently is. |
 Hisoka said: True love is finding someone whose demons play well with yours. Illumi said: . |
One said: I realize this is an old thread. But I have an objection. Currently I'm at episode 102 (rewatching) because the first time I watched, I wasn't attentive enough to the little details. So my question is. How exactly did you determine that Netero is stronger than Pitou, @Mikasa? In episode 86, at around 16:45 mark, Netero claims that Pitou is stronger than Netero currently is. HxH is not really a shonen, saying something doesn't mean it has to be so. That alone is enough. But, knov too said he was being humble then. And of course episode 111, shows Netero clearly stronger and faster, sure the slap didn't hurt Pitou, Pitou's best attack seemed to be blocked fairly easily. Forward to 125, and we see true speed and how many hands Netero has, Pitou would never ever land a hit on Netero, Meruem who was much faster could not do it, without the help of habing learned some predictive tactics while playing with Komigi. Given enough slaps, Pitou is nothing. (And no, Netero would never have to resort to Zero hand or any blast attack) In short: Damage done by Pitou in case a hit lands: severe to fatal Chances of landing a hit: almost impossibly Damage from Netero: slight to severe Chances of landing the hit: almost 100% |
MikasaMay 4, 2016 5:12 PM
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Mikasa said: One said: I realize this is an old thread. But I have an objection. Currently I'm at episode 102 (rewatching) because the first time I watched, I wasn't attentive enough to the little details. So my question is. How exactly did you determine that Netero is stronger than Pitou, @Mikasa? In episode 86, at around 16:45 mark, Netero claims that Pitou is stronger than Netero currently is. HxH is not really a shonen, saying something doesn't mean it has to be so. That alone is enough. But, knov too said he was being humble then. Certainly true. I'll resort to this thread again when I finish this arc. One thing before I leave. You can't leave out the fact that Meruem was only 9-10 days old when he was fighting Netero, if I'm not mistaken. Even though he learns fast, he had no real experience of fightning someone. Therefore he couldn't attack Netero early in the battle Pitou on the other hand was born many days ago, and had one fight with Kite. Although we didn't see the fight, we can say that Pitou has a little battle experience. Pitou, just like Meruem, learns very fast, if not at the same speed as Meruem. Avoiding the hands means learning the pattern first. EDIT: Nevermind, Meruem wasn't 9-10 days old. Just realized the Gon Nen-less one month timeskip. |
OneMay 4, 2016 5:28 PM
Hisoka said: True love is finding someone whose demons play well with yours. Illumi said: . |
| So after watching episode 131, I can conclude the following: 1. Changing my previous opinion, Netero is indeed stronger than Pitou. Netero did say that Pitou was stronger than himself, but that was before he was meditating for the ultimate fight. After meditating, his Zero Hand packed an absolutely astonishing punch. Even if Pitou were to figure out all his hands and evade them, there's no way that it could see Zero Hand coming. 2. In episode 125, Pitou says that "His fangs can reach the king's throat". But in episode 131, Pitou clearly clearly says "His power is now equal to that of the King's". 3. After Meruem is reborn and fed Pouf's and Youpi's auras, both Pouf and Youpi say that the king is even more powerful now than he was before. This can be confirmed because Meruem has an unmatched ability of consuming other people's auras and getting stronger. 4. Since Pitou hasn't seen the reborn Meruem, we can assume that what Pitou said was true and that Gon using restriction is as strong as Pre-Rebirth Meruem 5. Therefore, Post-Rebirth Meruem (if not poisoned) is stronger than Gon using restriction. So I'll side with @Agafin. If you wanna argue that "HxH is not like other Shounen series", you may go ahead. There's no fight between the ones mentioned above, so we can only work with what we have on paper. By that, I mean that Post-Rebirth Meruem > Gon with restriction = Pre-Rebirth Meruem is purely theoretical, and could be wrong if an actual fight were to have happened. |
OneMay 5, 2016 9:49 PM
Hisoka said: True love is finding someone whose demons play well with yours. Illumi said: . |
| Your logic for saying Gon was stronger than normal Meryem us exactly the same as the one for pitou being stronger than netero; there is absolutely no proof other than Pitou'sx/Netero's claim. The other possibility however, is hardly theoretical. First off, the narrator has the word of god, and he himself said Gon got power "just enough" to beat Pitou, that was his determination. You really think he had to be on par with the King to manage that? You really think the restrictions and punishment would be so generous as to grant him so much power? Not only to unnecessarily surpass Netero, but also Youpi and the King himself? No. Gon powered to Pitou's level. Still below ever Netero, let alone Meriem. You might ask: then why did Gon 1-hit KO pitou if they were even? Well, it's like them having 100 points of attack and 10 points of defense. Equally matched in the sense that whoever lands the first hit obliterates the other. Much like a mexican standoff in a weird sense. Right now I really don't see any evidence otherwise other than reiterating what an overzeaous, overprotective mother-like Pitou "claimed". |
MikasaMay 5, 2016 11:01 PM
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| I'm not sure what the debate is so I'll just give my interpretation of the scene when gon powered up. The first thing, I don't think it was something like gon just getting power out of nowhere to kill pitou. I think this was only possible because of his potential killua says something about how gon has aged I don't know for sure how old he was but I'm gonna guess that was his peak had he still trained all those years, he would have been a monster as we saw. So have his potential not have been so high I think he would have still aged to get stronger but maybe still not as strong to kill pitou. So what I'm saying is I don't think his power gain was based off how strong his enemy was but just how strong gons nen could have got. So he could have been a lot stronger then pitou not just enough to kill her and probably was as strong as meruem at least in nen. |
| Haha interesting thread. I agree with Post-rebirth Meruem > Adult Gon = Pre-rebirth Meruem, in terms of raw nen power at least. This is because Pitou explicitly states in episode 131 that Gon is as strong as the King. However, Gon was only able to reach that state because of his overwhelming emotions towards Pitou. I think his lack of experience would mean that he would lose a fight with Meruem even if they were equal in terms of nen power. If Gon had reached that state the "long way" by going through decades of training he would the experience to go with the power and probably would have been able to defeat Meruem, depending on the circumstances. It's not really as simple as looking at power differences since there are so many factors that decide the outcome of a fight. |
| I still see no proof for the argument: Pitou said it so it must be true. So it's a very dumb argument. Killua, Pitou and the Narrator themselves stated that Gon was just strong enough to beat Pitou, as in slightly above him in strength. |
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| Oh it's been awhile since I've seen the scene I didn't remember that being said, I watched it on crunchy roll. If that is the case the fight was really weird cause from the looks you really couldn't even call it a fight. He had her beat with a single kick then punch she wasn't dead but she had no more fight left in her. It seemed clear that he was way above her in strength. If he was just slightly stronger then I would think she'd put up more of a fight. |
damagedblood said: I hate to revive something long dead but I would like to point out that he not only sacrificed his use of nen, but also he basically sacrificed the rest of his life span. My theory(and it is only a theory) is paying his entire life and use of nen gave him access to all the nen he could have had access to in his entire life. So I personally believe that yes he was as powerful if not more powerful. Think, if he would have lived 80 more years that's 80 years of aura granted to him. So if that isn't enough to classify him as powerful as the ant king then I don't know what would. PS: I only say the life span thing because of his condition and when killua arrived he was shocked stating something along the lines of "how much time did you give up? Years, decades." Or something like that. That has no correlation whatsoever with the other. So no. He would not be stronger than Meruem in 80 years. One of Meruem's aspects is being a plot device to set the upper limit for how strong a character can be. Post Rose was just a way of underlining how desparate any attempt to fight him is. Facts are, Gon levelled up to Pitou's level. John6977 said: Oh it's been awhile since I've seen the scene I didn't remember that being said, I watched it on crunchy roll. If that is the case the fight was really weird cause from the looks you really couldn't even call it a fight. He had her beat with a single kick then punch she wasn't dead but she had no more fight left in her. It seemed clear that he was way above her in strength. If he was just slightly stronger then I would think she'd put up more of a fight. No not really way above her. Think about it: Pitou cut his arm with 1-hit. Imagine if that was aimed at his throat... Gon would have lost his head. So Pitou could have 1-shot Gon just as much as Gon could 1-shot Pitou, except Gon had to hit him a dozen times to really crush his head. So they both had extremely powerful attacks and relatively shitty bodies that could not handle each other's hits. It's like two people, of same strength with the same swords, and no armor. They are literally equal. But whoever lands the first hit fucks up the other one very badly. |
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Mikasa said: damagedblood said: I hate to revive something long dead but I would like to point out that he not only sacrificed his use of nen, but also he basically sacrificed the rest of his life span. My theory(and it is only a theory) is paying his entire life and use of nen gave him access to all the nen he could have had access to in his entire life. So I personally believe that yes he was as powerful if not more powerful. Think, if he would have lived 80 more years that's 80 years of aura granted to him. So if that isn't enough to classify him as powerful as the ant king then I don't know what would. PS: I only say the life span thing because of his condition and when killua arrived he was shocked stating something along the lines of "how much time did you give up? Years, decades." Or something like that. That has no correlation whatsoever with the other. So no. He would not be stronger than Meruem in 80 years. One of Meruem's aspects is being a plot device to set the upper limit for how strong a character can be. Post Rose was just a way of underlining how desparate any attempt to fight him is. Facts are, Gon levelled up to Pitou's level. John6977 said: Oh it's been awhile since I've seen the scene I didn't remember that being said, I watched it on crunchy roll. If that is the case the fight was really weird cause from the looks you really couldn't even call it a fight. He had her beat with a single kick then punch she wasn't dead but she had no more fight left in her. It seemed clear that he was way above her in strength. If he was just slightly stronger then I would think she'd put up more of a fight. No not really way above her. Think about it: Pitou cut his arm with 1-hit. Imagine if that was aimed at his throat... Gon would have lost his head. So Pitou could have 1-shot Gon just as much as Gon could 1-shot Pitou, except Gon had to hit him a dozen times to really crush his head. So they both had extremely powerful attacks and relatively shitty bodies that could not handle each other's hits. It's like two people, of same strength with the same swords, and no armor. They are literally equal. But whoever lands the first hit fucks up the other one very badly. Ok I understand what your saying the thing is though pitou only landed that because gon wasn't paying attention, had he been paying attention he would have probably dodged the attack or might have been able to defend with his nen and kept his arm. Also before the fight started pitou went for that attack but gon was so much faster it didn't even look like he was trying he just stepped aside. I was just thinking had he been only a little stronger he wouldn't have been that much faster and I would think there would be a little more room for error besides the first to land a hit wins, cause other wise I don't think pitou could have landed a attack to win. |
damagedblood said: John6977 said: I'm not sure what the debate is so I'll just give my interpretation of the scene when gon powered up. The first thing, I don't think it was something like gon just getting power out of nowhere to kill pitou. I think this was only possible because of his potential killua says something about how gon has aged I don't know for sure how old he was but I'm gonna guess that was his peak had he still trained all those years, he would have been a monster as we saw. So have his potential not have been so high I think he would have still aged to get stronger but maybe still not as strong to kill pitou. So what I'm saying is I don't think his power gain was based off how strong his enemy was but just how strong gons nen could have got. So he could have been a lot stronger then pitou not just enough to kill her and probably was as strong as meruem at least in nen. I guess this is along the lines of what I was trying to say. I think in terms of raw nen potential and strength he matched if not past the Meruem but in terms of battle strategy and actual ability to use that potential Meruem passes Gon. So he's equally as powerful but that doesn't mean shit in a fight frfr. I think Meruem would have won. But not unscathed or seriously injured. Since the fight will never happen I guess we will never know I not sure about gon having more or close raw nen potential and strength as meruem or any of the royal guards. I mean from birth they were master nen users meruem was only 40 days old when he fought netero and beat him and that was his first fight also gon had to age to beat pitou who was probably like 2 months old. And the way I see nen its like a evolution thing where you train for years and get stronger like a lot of the hunters fighting the ants, but the ants didn't look to train once imagine if they had time to train and grow they would have been unstoppable especially meruem. And by ants I mean just the royal guard and meruem just to clarify. The way I see it gon was like in his twenties when he might have been on par with meruem where as meruem was just 40 days with very little training or if any training at all so I feel in that sense meruems potential was unlimited. |
John6977 said: Mikasa said: That has no correlation whatsoever with the other. So no. He would not be stronger than Meruem in 80 years. One of Meruem's aspects is being a plot device to set the upper limit for how strong a character can be. Post Rose was just a way of underlining how desparate any attempt to fight him is. Facts are, Gon levelled up to Pitou's level. No not really way above her. Think about it: Pitou cut his arm with 1-hit. Imagine if that was aimed at his throat... Gon would have lost his head. So Pitou could have 1-shot Gon just as much as Gon could 1-shot Pitou, except Gon had to hit him a dozen times to really crush his head. So they both had extremely powerful attacks and relatively shitty bodies that could not handle each other's hits. It's like two people, of same strength with the same swords, and no armor. They are literally equal. But whoever lands the first hit fucks up the other one very badly. Ok I understand what your saying the thing is though pitou only landed that because gon wasn't paying attention, had he been paying attention he would have probably dodged the attack or might have been able to defend with his nen and kept his arm. Also before the fight started pitou went for that attack but gon was so much faster it didn't even look like he was trying he just stepped aside. I was just thinking had he been only a little stronger he wouldn't have been that much faster and I would think there would be a little more room for error besides the first to land a hit wins, cause other wise I don't think pitou could have landed a attack to win. Ok... then Pitou could have also dodged Gon's kick and punch if he could negate the conservation of momentum of his attack. This is not about awareness of the kick. 1. Each could deal a fatal blow. 2. That means they fight until one of them fails at evading, and that is what they both did. In other words, if Killua was away, Gon would have killed Pitou, and Pitou's corpse would have killed Gon. This means Gon power -up to- the point of being able to beat Pitou. No further. In other words, each of them had a punch as strong as Meruem's, but their body build and defenses pale in comparison to his. Gon wasn't that much faster. Just fast enough to dodge, which is good, but not "much faster". Pitou could have also dodged Gon's attacks in the same circumstances. |
| End Zionazism |
Mikasa said: John6977 said: Ok I understand what your saying the thing is though pitou only landed that because gon wasn't paying attention, had he been paying attention he would have probably dodged the attack or might have been able to defend with his nen and kept his arm. Also before the fight started pitou went for that attack but gon was so much faster it didn't even look like he was trying he just stepped aside. I was just thinking had he been only a little stronger he wouldn't have been that much faster and I would think there would be a little more room for error besides the first to land a hit wins, cause other wise I don't think pitou could have landed a attack to win. Ok... then Pitou could have also dodged Gon's kick and punch if he could negate the conservation of momentum of his attack. This is not about awareness of the kick. 1. Each could deal a fatal blow. 2. That means they fight until one of them fails at evading, and that is what they both did. In other words, if Killua was away, Gon would have killed Pitou, and Pitou's corpse would have killed Gon. This means Gon power -up to- the point of being able to beat Pitou. No further. In other words, each of them had a punch as strong as Meruem's, but their body build and defenses pale in comparison to his. Gon wasn't that much faster. Just fast enough to dodge, which is good, but not "much faster". Pitou could have also dodged Gon's attacks in the same circumstances. Idk to me it didn't even look like pitou thought she would win, and pitou had the advantage with her first attack since it was from behind and was out of nowhere and it didn't faze gon at all. Also I don't think it fits pitou's personality, before she showed interest in fighting strong opponents it seemed to excite her but she didn't look excited she looked like she knew she was about to die when fighting gon. And I would think if they were that close to strength she would be able to recover from a missed attack and a kick to the stomach but that one kick destroyed her she was bleeding out the mouth before she hit the ground. Like for instance kite seemed to be close to pitou's level killua says himself that kite is Prabably above a master at nen and pitou was ruffed up after the fight which is pretty impressive for kite to do with one arm, basically it looked to be back and forth which is how I would think a fight betrween two skilled nen users to be, not a slaughter like with gon. But I could be wrong not every nen battle is gonna be the same and with gon being a enhancer he would think he would have an advantage in hand to hand combat. |
John6977 said: Mikasa said: Ok... then Pitou could have also dodged Gon's kick and punch if he could negate the conservation of momentum of his attack. This is not about awareness of the kick. 1. Each could deal a fatal blow. 2. That means they fight until one of them fails at evading, and that is what they both did. In other words, if Killua was away, Gon would have killed Pitou, and Pitou's corpse would have killed Gon. This means Gon power -up to- the point of being able to beat Pitou. No further. In other words, each of them had a punch as strong as Meruem's, but their body build and defenses pale in comparison to his. Gon wasn't that much faster. Just fast enough to dodge, which is good, but not "much faster". Pitou could have also dodged Gon's attacks in the same circumstances. Idk to me it didn't even look like pitou thought she would win, and pitou had the advantage with her first attack since it was from behind and was out of nowhere and it didn't faze gon at all. Also I don't think it fits pitou's personality, before she showed interest in fighting strong opponents it seemed to excite her but she didn't look excited she looked like she knew she was about to die when fighting gon. And I would think if they were that close to strength she would be able to recover from a missed attack and a kick to the stomach but that one kick destroyed her she was bleeding out the mouth before she hit the ground. Like for instance kite seemed to be close to pitou's level killua says himself that kite is Prabably above a master at nen and pitou was ruffed up after the fight which is pretty impressive for kite to do with one arm, basically it looked to be back and forth which is how I would think a fight betrween two skilled nen users to be, not a slaughter like with gon. But I could be wrong not every nen battle is gonna be the same and with gon being a enhancer he would think he would have an advantage in hand to hand combat. Again, all your explanations are about Pitou's opinion and not observed facts. Pitou also thought Netero was dangerous, but Netero himself was worthless against Meruem. Pitou is overzeaous and overprotective just like all royal guards. "Pitou used to be excited", yeah you mean when he fought Kite back when Meruem wasn't even born. Or when he wanted to fight Morel who was nowhere near the level of Adult Gon, but was smart enough to provide for an "interesting hunt" had Pitou been able to chase him. Or when lunged up toward Netero, right before he knew he fucked up. the fact still remains: Gon's physical abilities were still equal to Pitou's, and Gon's body was more fragile. Gon's strongest attack, while having indeed incapacitated Pitou, required over 13 repeats to crush the head. Pitou with one attack could have decapitated Gon with ease, and would have, had Killua not intervened. "Killua says himself" When will people stop quoting characters as if they are the all-knowing gods of the series? Killua also said Pitou would one-off Netero (ep 85)... look how that turned out. The narrator however himself said (along with more analytical characters): Gon powered up to the point where he can defeat Pitou. You really think he'd have to power all the way up to the King's level just to beat Pitou? Nen's restrictions and punishments don't give freebies away like that. |
| End Zionazism |
| Im not going to read a book about which of the characters of Hiatus x Hiatus is stronger but what is your verdict guys? I was an agnostic on this matter till this day. You made me wanna rewatch this stuff :D |
SpaghettiSpikeSep 22, 2016 3:29 AM
 Oshii is probably the only director that loves dogs. He thinks he's a dog himself. That's right, its slime! It will dissolve your clothing slowly before my eyes! |
Dishonest said: Im not going to read a book about which of the characters of Hiatus x Hiatus is stronger but what is your verdict guys? I was an agnostic on this matter till this day. You made me wanna rewatch this stuff :D The majority stupidly believes Gon was on par with the king. Otherwise I would not have created this thread. |
| End Zionazism |
Mikasa said: Dishonest said: Im not going to read a book about which of the characters of Hiatus x Hiatus is stronger but what is your verdict guys? I was an agnostic on this matter till this day. You made me wanna rewatch this stuff :D The majority stupidly believes Gon was on par with the king. Otherwise I would not have created this thread. Idk if your referring to me as well but I'll go ahead and say I do not think Gon was on par with Meruem. I think Meruem destroys Gon in a fight. But I do believe Gon was at the top of human nen power though. I also think Gon was close I just think Meruem beats him for various reasons. And as for the Pitou/Gon argument It seems are biggest disagreement is the context of the power giving to Gon. Where you think Gon just got enough power to beat Pitou so whoever hits first wins, My thoughts are that doesn't make much sense to me where as just aging Gon to his peak to make him stronger actually makes sense. It feels less of a cop out to me. And I think the fight it self is supportive of my theory. Also your quote "Gon powered up to the point where he can defeat Pitou" can literally be interpreted multiple ways like also supporting my theory. If Gon's peak is much stronger then current Pitou then he would have in fact "powered up to the point where he can defeat Pitou" Now I'm not saying I'm right I think the scene can also be interpreted many ways, its just a theory that makes sense. Like really Gon just ages all those years and just happens to be the same level as Pitou even though he's been said many times to be a prodigy? that doesn't make sense, also the fact that old Netero who says himself that he's got less the half his strength but still would probably beat Pitou? And Gon in his prime is just her level? From what we know about Gon when he reached that state he had to have been at the top with the other top nen users that Netero himself isn't even at now. So my point is there's no point of even aging Gon if he's just at her level cause had he really aged all those years he should be a lot stronger then Pitou |
meichaofeng said: so i will make a category for their power by strength (offensive), durability (defensive), speed, nen ability, intelegence. strength : gon = meruem. it takes gon's kou to pitou's head really kill her (i call pitou as her). when it's only an ordinary punch, it won't be that deadly. maybe as strong as meruem's tail strike to pitou that make her bleed a lil'. if king uses kou, then it can be as strong as gon. durability : king >>> gon. gon's durability is not that spectacular from what i see. his arm is easily mutilated by pitou's dead body. while meruem still okay after taking ALL netero has. speed : gon > king. gon's reaction to pitou's speed is like crazy. i can say it's as fast as netero's kannon. and we know netero's kannon is faster than meruem's speed. nen ability : gon = king. they will actually to have a physical brawl instead of using any hatsu. but gon will likely to use jajanken (kou) to finalize the attack. but most of the time, gon will not be able to use it since it's gonna be an intense fight. intellegence : king >>> gon. so, gon is superior in speed departmen and king in durability and intelegence. it will take several punches to kill meruem. yet meruem only need one attack to kill gon. but due to gon's speed, it will be really hard to hit gon. while gon will likely to have chance to hit meruem and gon will eventually win. but if the king uses his brain, then he will avoid this kind of fight and i think king have a chance to win. so i think they both are as strong. it's gon who has reached his potential. even netero couldnt reach his potential. at least we can see in his speed department. he only accuaire a superhuman speed for his arms. his movement is way-way slower. gon has reached all. not only his arms who is fast, but his body movement is also very fast. not only for speed, it's his offensive and durabilty too. that what adult gon is. it's something that CANNOT BE ACHIEVED NORMALLY by training. bcoz people can't train all the time. as killua says, it's the level that can only be attained thru endless training for years and years. I'm pretty sure Killua isn't being literal, of course it's not possible to train nonstop for years that would be counter intuitive your body needs rest to grow stronger. I think Killua just meant it would require years of dedication to training to surpass your limit and of course talent. I thought Meruem said something similar to Netero did he not? about surpassing his limit? So I certainly think it's possible to reach that state normally just extremely difficult. Also I don't think Gon was stronger then Netero, it's hard to compare the two with only seeing Netero fight out of his prime. It wasn't that his body was slow he just had fast hands, his body was maybe as fast as adult Gon's ( I mean Netero's body in his prime) it's just his hands were extremely fast. Not even Gon's hands would be that fast. That was a individual trait Netero required with his repetitive praying. His hatsu relied on his abnormal hand speed. Meruem notes it's the only thing he can't keep up with. But I haven't read this far in the manga yet so this is coming from a anime only perspective. |
[/quote] but netero needs a decade ONLY to train his arms' speed. gon is not only fast in his arms' speed, but his entire body can move as fast as netero's arms, it's proven through how he avoids pitou's attack. it's just the same with how netero can intercept pitou's attack. in his prime doesn't always mean reaching his maximum potential. and i dont think it makes any different between netero in his prime and old netero. what makes netero OP is his arm's speed combined with hyakushiki kannon. without that, even if netero was in his prime, he wouldnt be able to touch the king no matter how strong his offense was. hyakushiki kannon is one of the most smart nen ability, netero using a giant budha to add more strength in his attack (so he doesn't need to worry about his physical's strength drop due to aging) and to extend the reach of his limited reach of his arms. and it moves as fast as his arms means that the speed of his budha is multiple since it's bigger. a very smart of optimizing his arms speed. and adult gon is of course stronger than prime netero. i just dont get why it's very hard to understan by readers.[/quote] I don't understand what your saying Netero trained his hands for years (unsure how long exactly) that's WHY his hands would be faster. Gon being quicker then Pitou isn't that impressive when Netero was quicker then the king who I assure you is much faster then Pitou. Again Netero's hand speed is a trait personal to him. The reason why Gon is as fast as he was is just because he simply aged. He got physically stronger and quicker with a much larger nen aura to go with it. That's why he was as fast as he was. Netero was a beast in his prime he had the title worlds strongest nen user Gon and prime Netero wouldn't be that different their both enhancers but unless Gon trained his hands for decades he wouldn't be as fast as Netero. When Gon aged all he got was the added strength and speed with the larger nen aura. He didn't get the full benefit of doing it normally like experience and personal traits. And yes a prime Netero compared to old Netero makes a big difference. I believe Netero says he's got less then half his strength, in his prime he would have had his full speed and strength with reflexes as well. Old characters in the story do grow weaker so of course prime Netero would be a lot more dangerous then old Netero. |
John6977Nov 15, 2016 7:40 PM
meichaofeng said: John6977 said: I don't understand what your saying Netero trained his hands for years (unsure how long exactly) that's WHY his hands would be faster. Gon being quicker then Pitou isn't that impressive when Netero was quicker then the king who I assure you is much faster then Pitou. Again Netero's hand speed is a trait personal to him. The reason why Gon is as fast as he was is just because he simply aged. He got physically stronger and quicker with a much larger nen aura to go with it. That's why he was as fast as he was. Netero was a beast in his prime he had the title worlds strongest nen user Gon and prime Netero wouldn't be that different their both enhancers but unless Gon trained his hands for decades he wouldn't be as fast as Netero. When Gon aged all he got was the added strength and speed with the larger nen aura. He didn't get the full benefit of doing it normally like experience and personal traits. And yes a prime Netero compared to old Netero makes a big difference. I believe Netero says he's got less then half his strength, in his prime he would have had his full speed and strength with reflexes as well. Old characters in the story do grow weaker so of course prime Netero would be a lot more dangerous then old Netero. man, in anime and manga it's stated that he did a 10000 punch a day and in the last day he trained, he could do it waaaaaaay faster than the first time he did it. he did that for 5 or more years if i remember. even in a fight with the king, king himself said about that too how he was impressed by how netero achieved that arms speed. and king said that netero had to go something crazy for so many years to achieve that arms speed alone. being the strongest ppl in the world doesnt mean that he reached his MAXIMUM potential. what gon underwent is a HAX. so no training at all. it's achieved thru another method. it's not natural. the point is that he sacrificed all of his potential. and facts tell that gon's movement speed is on par with netero's arms. not netero himself. netero's body's movement is waaaaayyy slower than his arms. proof : both can avoid pitou's attack right after pitou started the attack. if netero didnt have that arms speed + kannon, netero is in dangerous situation since he won't be fast enough to intercept it like that. in physical strength YES, the strength is different when he was in his prime. but what makes netero strong is not that physical strength. it's his arms speed + hyakushiki kannon. netero doesnt need fast body movement and strength as he was in his prime as long as it has kannon that actually faster and hit so hard. so, overal, it doesnt make different. the different is only phyisical strength, aura amount and stamina. but what makes netero truly fearsome is HYAKUSHIKI KANNON with his arms speed that ignore those degradation in his physical strength. Dude Netero's speed is literally his defining trait that makes his hatsu and just the man himself terrifying. That's what got him the title strongest nen user in his prime. Your not gonna get that fast with dedicating decades just focused on your speed. No other character has shown to have the speed Netero has. Also no the FACTS clearly highlight Netero's speed far more then Gons. Do you even remember when Netero slapped Pitou? She literally could not see his hands move until after the hit had already landed she had to focus EVERYTHING she had just to see the after images when she went flying back. That's fact also Netero's hand speed was far faster then the king. This is also fact Meruem states this himself. Again Gon is geared more to power then speed, that's very clear just looking at his hatsu. Netero is built for speed, he would bitch slap Gon without Gon even seeing the attack and without a durable body Gon is dead. Netero also states he could never find a opponent to use his full might on. That's how OP is hatsu is. The wiki says Netero could make a full hand attack at less the 0.1 seconds, It's also said clearly he could easily shatter the sound barrier. As for the Age thing like this shouldn't even be a fucking argument it's common fucking sense. As you age you slow down, grow weaker I'm sure it affected his nen as well. Netero already says he's got less then half his strength and also says others have surpassed him. Why would the strongest nen user in the world say that? It's because age caught up to him, he declined while the younger generation left him. The title strongest nen user was for his YOUNGER self, that's proof that he's weaken. It's incredible itself that he's still as strong and as fast as he is in old age, that's just a testament of how fucking strong and fast he truly was back then. But no man Netero even as a old man still had faster hands then all of adult Gon. Gon at the absolute most was a little faster then meruem which was still to slow for old Netero. |
meichaofeng said: John6977 said: Dude Netero's speed is literally his defining trait that makes his hatsu and just the man himself terrifying. That's what got him the title strongest nen user in his prime. Your not gonna get that fast with dedicating decades just focused on your speed. No other character has shown to have the speed Netero has. Also no the FACTS clearly highlight Netero's speed far more then Gons. Do you even remember when Netero slapped Pitou? She literally could not see his hands move until after the hit had already landed she had to focus EVERYTHING she had just to see the after images when she went flying back. That's fact also Netero's hand speed was far faster then the king. This is also fact Meruem states this himself. Again Gon is geared more to power then speed, that's very clear just looking at his hatsu. Netero is built for speed, he would bitch slap Gon without Gon even seeing the attack and without a durable body Gon is dead. Netero also states he could never find a opponent to use his full might on. That's how OP is hatsu is. The wiki says Netero could make a full hand attack at less the 0.1 seconds, It's also said clearly he could easily shatter the sound barrier. As for the Age thing like this shouldn't even be a fucking argument it's common fucking sense. As you age you slow down, grow weaker I'm sure it affected his nen as well. Netero already says he's got less then half his strength and also says others have surpassed him. Why would the strongest nen user in the world say that? It's because age caught up to him, he declined while the younger generation left him. The title strongest nen user was for his YOUNGER self, that's proof that he's weaken. It's incredible itself that he's still as strong and as fast as he is in old age, that's just a testament of how fucking strong and fast he truly was back then. But no man Netero even as a old man still had faster hands then all of adult Gon. Gon at the absolute most was a little faster then meruem which was still to slow for old Netero. i can say that you didnt read the manga or watched the anime carefully. it's stated clearly. netero's BODY movement is so fast. yes that's right. even i can say he's as fast as feitan for a movement speed. but that's not what makes netero able to face the king. what makes him able to face the king is that arms's speed. king stated himself that it's only his arms speed that surpass the king's movement speed. and then king started to guess how netero reach that, it's by investing a very long time to train that aspects ALONE that is trains his arms speed. and that's the fact! when netero first time used hyakusiki kannon, it's explained by zeno and narator how netero achieve that speed IN HYAKUSHIKI KANNON. it's by doing 10000 punches a day for years and years (5-10 years. CMIIW, it's stated in a manga). i have a question, what makes netero the stongest? physical attack? or his nen ability? if what makes him the strongest is his nena abiluty, hyakushiki kannon, not his physical strength, then, i will say that there is no different in combat ability between prime netero and old netero, since the factor that makes him the strongest is still there until netero old, that is hyakushiki kannon. but if u said that what makes him strong is his physical attack, i can argue that you are wrong, since what netero used in fighting his strongest opponent is only hyakushiki kannon (and his stamina). maybe a lil' oot. in official HxH guide book, netero's stamina is level 5. the only persons in databook that has that level is only biske and royal guards. hisoka, kuroro, razor, kite only at level 4. meichaofeng said: John6977 said: Dude Netero's speed is literally his defining trait that makes his hatsu and just the man himself terrifying. That's what got him the title strongest nen user in his prime. Your not gonna get that fast with dedicating decades just focused on your speed. No other character has shown to have the speed Netero has. Also no the FACTS clearly highlight Netero's speed far more then Gons. Do you even remember when Netero slapped Pitou? She literally could not see his hands move until after the hit had already landed she had to focus EVERYTHING she had just to see the after images when she went flying back. That's fact also Netero's hand speed was far faster then the king. This is also fact Meruem states this himself. Again Gon is geared more to power then speed, that's very clear just looking at his hatsu. Netero is built for speed, he would bitch slap Gon without Gon even seeing the attack and without a durable body Gon is dead. Netero also states he could never find a opponent to use his full might on. That's how OP is hatsu is. The wiki says Netero could make a full hand attack at less the 0.1 seconds, It's also said clearly he could easily shatter the sound barrier. As for the Age thing like this shouldn't even be a fucking argument it's common fucking sense. As you age you slow down, grow weaker I'm sure it affected his nen as well. Netero already says he's got less then half his strength and also says others have surpassed him. Why would the strongest nen user in the world say that? It's because age caught up to him, he declined while the younger generation left him. The title strongest nen user was for his YOUNGER self, that's proof that he's weaken. It's incredible itself that he's still as strong and as fast as he is in old age, that's just a testament of how fucking strong and fast he truly was back then. But no man Netero even as a old man still had faster hands then all of adult Gon. Gon at the absolute most was a little faster then meruem which was still to slow for old Netero. i can say that you didnt read the manga or watched the anime carefully. it's stated clearly. netero's BODY movement is so fast. yes that's right. even i can say he's as fast as feitan for a movement speed. but that's not what makes netero able to face the king. what makes him able to face the king is that arms's speed. king stated himself that it's only his arms speed that surpass the king's movement speed. and then king started to guess how netero reach that, it's by investing a very long time to train that aspects ALONE that is trains his arms speed. and that's the fact! when netero first time used hyakusiki kannon, it's explained by zeno and narator how netero achieve that speed IN HYAKUSHIKI KANNON. it's by doing 10000 punches a day for years and years (5-10 years. CMIIW, it's stated in a manga). i have a question, what makes netero the stongest? physical attack? or his nen ability? if what makes him the strongest is his nena abiluty, hyakushiki kannon, not his physical strength, then, i will say that there is no different in combat ability between prime netero and old netero, since the factor that makes him the strongest is still there until netero old, that is hyakushiki kannon. but if u said that what makes him strong is his physical attack, i can argue that you are wrong, since what netero used in fighting his strongest opponent is only hyakushiki kannon (and his stamina). maybe a lil' oot. in official HxH guide book, netero's stamina is level 5. the only persons in databook that has that level is only biske and royal guards. hisoka, kuroro, razor, kite only at level 4. At the beginning of my post I made a typo, meant to say you couldn't get that fast WITHOUT training your hands for decades. As for the rest I have no idea what your talking about, the whole time I've been talking about Netero's HANDS. It means fuck all how fast his body is when his hands alone are so much faster then everybody else. I've been saying this whole time adult Gon still isn't faster then Netero's HANDS. Gon's body compared to Netero's body? Sure Gon is faster, but it means shit when as soon as Netero's hands move his time perspective slows down to the point where time is about stopped meaning he's sending Gon flying. And again I've already pointed out Netero himself has SAID HE GOT WEAKER. He said specifically less then half his full strength dude. That means everything is deteriorating his physical strength and his SPEED that's fucking how getting old works. Jesus Christ if you wanna get real technical when it comes to aging fighters in real life speed is one of the first things to go, the last is power. I only threw out discussion of a prime Netero to strengthen my point that I think reaching the point that Gon reached is possible. Cause I'm betting young Netero was as strong as adult Gon. Again Meruem says specifically Netero has surpassed his limit. That sounds like what people are saying Gon did. |
meichaofeng said: John6977 said: At the beginning of my post I made a typo, meant to say you couldn't get that fast WITHOUT training your hands for decades. As for the rest I have no idea what your talking about, the whole time I've been talking about Netero's HANDS. It means fuck all how fast his body is when his hands alone are so much faster then everybody else. I've been saying this whole time adult Gon still isn't faster then Netero's HANDS. Gon's body compared to Netero's body? Sure Gon is faster, but it means shit when as soon as Netero's hands move his time perspective slows down to the point where time is about stopped meaning he's sending Gon flying. And again I've already pointed out Netero himself has SAID HE GOT WEAKER. He said specifically less then half his full strength dude. That means everything is deteriorating his physical strength and his SPEED that's fucking how getting old works. Jesus Christ if you wanna get real technical when it comes to aging fighters in real life speed is one of the first things to go, the last is power. I only threw out discussion of a prime Netero to strengthen my point that I think reaching the point that Gon reached is possible. Cause I'm betting young Netero was as strong as adult Gon. Again Meruem says specifically Netero has surpassed his limit. That sounds like what people are saying Gon did. how come you know that adult gon is not as fast as netero's hands? gon could avoid pitou's attack only a meter before it reached him. and then before pitou could react to that, gon already kicked her (i refer pitou as a female here). and even after that, gon was able to intercept pitou's after death terpshicora and stabbed her using his own mutilated arm. and gon didn't need that budha extention to do that. Gon is quick yes, but he's just not gonna be as fast as a man who's devoted basically his entire hatsu around his speed. You have to think Netero's speed was so great Togashi felt comfortable enough to name him at one point the strongest nen user. Gon isn't gonna beat years of dedication on hand speed just cause he aged, he would still need to concentrate a huge deal of time on the specific trait speed which we have no evidence he would have. He was already developing his hatsu which relies more on power then speed where as Netero was the opposite. Now Gon is more balanced then Netero, but again just Gon aging and having more power isn't gonna make him faster then years of training on a specific trait like Netero, hell he was only that fast cause he's like Netero basically a god level nen user. It's just Netero took the speed route while Gon was more balanced. Also There's a difference between Pitou just not being quick enough to react to Gon and Pitou literally not even comprehending Netero's attack when he was in front of her. Now contrary to my previous post I don't think Netero one shots Gon, But Gon isn't gonna win a contest of speed if basically the most powerful character Meruem couldn't. |
meichaofeng said: this gon is not just aging. he reached his maximum potential. killua said that it's something that could only be reached thru endless training. gon said he sacrificed everything. pitou said that that gon level could only be reached by trading all of his potential. so basically, it's the max of him. including his speed. did pitou also comprehending gon's attack? as i saw in anime, pitou starred at gon's face after failed to strike him. then suddenly, pitou got hit on the gut without her knowing gon would attack to her gut. if she did, then she would at least star at where the attack would come. so the reaction is just the same. pitou didnt know where the attack coming. I'm done with this argument, I've already given my thoughts on Gon's aging process and also on Killua's quote. Your just rehashing the same shit. If you wanna keep thinking Gon is faster then good, even though the only thing you have is "but Gon was faster then Pitou so he must be faster then Netero too". I'll just go on the fact that not only was Netero significantly faster then Pitou he was also faster significantly faster then Meruem the most powerful character we've seen so far, who need I say would have destroyed Pitou in a similar fashon Gon did. She says Gon is on par with Meruem, but without Meruem's intellect and durability and only the speed of Meruem Gon is still fucked. Think what you want as soon as Gon starts charging his jajanken he's fucked. |
meichaofeng said: bcoz you dont understand those shits. i gave you facts. even it's clearly seen in the manga n anime. i didnt only say that gon is faster than pitou then gon is faster than netero or at least the same. i explained more. gon is better in speed n probably aura. meruem in intelegent n durability. damn. killua wondered how many decades it took to make gon that strong. and he said it's only possible thru endless training! that's clear. he's aging. yes. but he's not simply aging, but the amount of strength and aura gained is as much as what killua said, equivalent to the amount of strgth n aura gained thru endless training. something which is almost impossible to be done. Jesus Christ Killua didn't mean fucking literally, you'd be fucking dead. His whole point was Gon would of had to continue at his pace and train immensely hard to get to that point. Netero did the same damn thing. Once he reached his limit he went up in the mountains trained endlessly for like 4 or 5 years and became a monster. Also no your assuming Gon is faster and has more aura. It's already been stated by Pitou Gon was more or less Meruem's equal. Except the things we know obviously Meruem was better at, like fucking durability and intellect. That's basically fact it holds a lot more merit then your assumptions. It's also fact Netero proved even being as fast as Meruem was still to slow for him. So it's quite simple, even if Gon was as fast as Meruem which Pitou basically already said but without the obvious durability of Meruem Gon is fucked. I believe Pitou on Crunchyroll subs says he's on par with the king. So again basically equals but without his durability. |
meichaofeng said: he said gon's fang could reach the king. how could u know that he's not as smart as king while you know he's not faster than the king if you said that pitou had said gon's equal to the king??? my argument is provided with fact. i used time frame on how gon reacts on pitou's attack. and how pitou's reaction to that. lol. no... he said it literally. he's shocked with that and if it's just like gon's normal training, he shouldn't need to say it. and netero has shown to us about this thing. he dedicated a special amount of time to train a single thing without doing any other things. and that's what killua said. and that's why gon easily beat pitou like that. even i dont think netero prime without that arms speed and kannon able to do that like gon did. damn, i just dont get why ppl is very heard to understand about the point of gon's transformation. even after gon super easily defeat pitou like that. Dude if Togashi meant for that power to be unattainable no matter what then he would have wrote "no matter how many years of training Gon could have never achieved this much power. This power is too great for any human to have." or something like that, you get the point I hope. Now we have him writing the complete opposite with Killua saying this would be Gon with years of training. Do you see the difference? For the thousandths time the transformation was just a short cut to Gon's potential, that's it. Both Killua and Pitou say clearly he's aged. Killua said twenty years, which would be about right from what we've heard about Gon's potential. Also Netero is further proof that a power like that can be achieved through training, Meruem states he has surpassed his limit. And again Gon still isn't gonna be as fast as Netero's hands. And if your really asking me how I know Gon isn't as smart as Meruem then you really must have not been paying attention which seems about right with your replies. Also Gon's fangs can now reach the king is still implying Gon is as strong or stronger then the king. Gon isn't gonna hurt Meruem if he's not as strong as Meruem so there. |
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