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Nope ._.

I can't trust someone who would give toradora a 9 ._.

Lol ok I thought you were but I wasn't positive. So who's your favorite characters for those anime? I'm going to guess Gin for Gintama. But I have no idea for HxH.

I was sarcastic btw.

No I hate them~

Lol don't feel bad about it, you make it sound like I'm dumping you. I just don't feel motivated when a discussion isn't moving anywhere and going in circles. I'm always open for anime discussions.

That's Loras' fault for falling for such a move in the first place. Being careless is a bitch, as Oberyn also proved. Are you really comparing that punk Vardis to Jaime ? The same Vardis that shat his pants at the mere mention of Jaime's name ? Bronn had street smarts and had the perfect environment to perform his little tricks, his opponent was dumb enough to chase after him in armor instead of waiting.

Gregor is far from a skilled expert nor a sharp tactician. He's just an oversized mad dog with ridiculous bloodlust and and a thick ass armor. The kind that you unleash in the vanguard to scare the shit out of militiamen and common infantry. He'll be the most effective in Westeros against group of fodders but any quick and highly skilled opponent would turn him into dead meat.

More like the big majority puts Jaime a tier above.

Anyway I don't plan to continue on this much further. It is indeed starting to grate on my nerves, without any offense.

Brienne herself noted how impressive it was for him to put up a stalemate fight for so long in his state. I didn't say the dothraki was on Oberyn's level dammit, I was talking about how much impact a lack of armor has sigh... REALISTICALLY they would know about his level since the guy is the bloody prince of Dorne. How the fuck is grabbing a cheat ? It's a warrior fight, not fencing...

Anyway this is turning in circles and going nowhere, with the same arguments being brought up each time. I'm just going to tell you to visit any threads on the internet about it and you'll get the same answer that I gave you. I won't post the links myself because you might suspect me of picking whatever supports my claims, so just Google any Oberyn/Jaime VS and see for yourself.

But the the thing is all those are speculations. Jaime cut through dozens of Robb's men under an hour to reach him, only to be stopped at a few meters of killing him by having a bunch of guys clinging to his feet. That's a fact. He managed to fight Brienne on equal grounds for HOURS while starved, shackled and rusty in fighting, the same Brienne that submitted Loras Tyrell in like 30 minutes and is almost as big as The Hound. That's fact. Jorah proved that fighting against full plate when you're butt naked and barely faster gets you rekt, and Oberyn hates armors and Jaime is described as one of the fastest fighters in Westeros (which means that even IF Oberyn is faster, it won't compensate for the lack of armor). Again that's fact. George stated that excluding Dawn, Arthur, Barristan and Jaime could all beat each other. Again that's fact. Jaime is too versatile not only in skills but in speed, strength, cunning (because yes his POVs demonstrate how witty and adaptable he is on the go) and equipment. You won't make him lose with specialized huge piles of strength (Gregor) or quick bastards (Oberyn), you need someone of the same type like Barristan, though The Hound would probably put up a good fight to an extent.
Dunk and Aemon add nothing to the conversation since they have ZERO feats nor witnesses in the story to testify for them. Maybe they are as good as you say but it's pointless and irrelevant to discuss it since there is no evidence.

Oberyn lost because he was cocky and hot tempered as well as letting his emotions blind his judgement, all those factors drove him to his death. Otherwise he was the perfect counter to The Mountain, not because he was better, simply because like water extinguishes fire, Oberyn is the perfect opponent to fight Gregor. On an overall perspective and based on feats and what was said about him I'd put him in the same tier as Garlan, which is pretty damn good.

Apologies for the quite late answer, apparently it just flew over my head.

Never said swords are better than spears, I said swords are better than spears in medieval DUELS. Of course spears make for better defensive formations, are actually of use against a cavalry, can be thrown in worst case scenarios, etc. The source you use doesn't deny that, it's a matter of context.

Loras beat Jaime IN A JOUST. Joust =/= fighting skills. Besides Loras was a cheating bastard the whole time with his mare in heat. You also misunderstood my point. I didn't use the tourneys as a mean to measure their dicks but as a proof that Oberyn has had exposition to the majority of Westeros and people, which means he is far of being an underestimated nobody that no one can gauge.

I never said otherwise, heck Daemon got rekt by a rain of arrows in an ambush of Bloodraven IIRC. Arthur Dayne most likely got backstabbed by Reed too. I don't see the point , we were comparing raw skills and level pitted against each other, possible plot happenings are irrelevant here.

But the thing is if Oberyn is just as good with the spear than the sword, and George stated Jaime and Selmy are the best swordsmen, it's pretty clear that he's below them. I mean this is all pretty self explanatory

For his size he's fast sure, doesn't mean he can compare with average height warriors who are renown for their speed.
Well if Oberyn isn't better with the spear than the sword then that's even worse of a case for him, since no one cares about his sword skills and George specifically said Jaime was the best swordsman in the world at the start of ASOIAF. Oberyn is not the nobody you paint him as, he's participated to the king's tourneys during the Mad King's reign hence the injury he inflicted on Willas Tyrell in a joust, people have seen him in action. Tywin knew of his reputation too. The guy is a very good fighter but he's never been painted as a guy on par with the greatest, he's dangerous because of his poison tactics. You're contradicting yourself, first Oberyn only uses the spear in the case of The Mountain for the reach, then Dorne is specialized in spear fighting, it's one or the other. No one said Dawn couldn't get through Gregor's armor, in fact I'm pretty sure it could. Then again, Selmy and Jaime are fast and skilled enough to aim for the gaps, that's a given.

Dude spear fighting sucks in single combat, that's a fact from the few medieval warfare classes I took. Its effectiveness is maximized in a phalanx formation or against a cavalry charge, but in a single fight it's completely outclassed by the sword. You can't swing a spear at the risk of breaking it, you have to to pull it back before attacking again. That's plenty enough time for a uber quick swordsman to cut through you, then again even if you try to block the attack instead the spear gets cut in half. And if the spear user does use a shield, his spear practically loses half its striking force and attack possibilities. It's a shitty weapon in an individual fight, except against a warhammer. It's the very reason why Tyrion was worried about Oberyn using a spear in a duel. As for full plated armor, Oberyn precised he hated them when he was on foot since all his "snake" style revolves around being flexible and quick. Face it, the guy isn't cut for a fight against Jaime and Selmy.

Oberyn is idolized as a dangerous guy who uses poison. Heck one of his feats is bringing poison to a duel against a lord instead of fighting fair. Reminds me of Bloodraven, the guy was a deadly archer but he wasn't feared for his fighting prowess particularly but because of his pragmatism and ruthlessness. He was a dangerous man and Daemon being too stupid to stay in safety when commanding his army paid for it in blood.
My point about exaggeration can't apply to guys like Dayne and Selmy. On the contrary to the old Targaryens who had enough political power to make propaganda on their bloodline, those guys don't have that lineage. Second we have no eye witnesses for someone like Daemon, only fame. On the other hand guys like Dayne and Selmy are recognized as badass mofos by other badass mofos like Jaime and Robert. Hell if Ned Stark fanboys over Barristan and Dayne and shits himself in front of Jaime that's because he knows what's up, he's not the type to sugarcoat someone, especially if he hates said person. Those guys have eye witness who can testify their feats and have a legend in proportion to it.

Dude like I said Oberyn isn't a nobody, the guy has done his fair share of participation in tourneys and fights. He has a big reputation. Daemon can't possibly lack fame and recognition, those points are exactly why I doubt his greatness. He was a Targ rockstar back when they were hot shit, he's anything but underrated.

I won't comment on the Dragon Knight given we have next to no info nor eye witnesses about him. I think you're greatly overrating Daemon Blackfyre. The guy had a fighting reputation sure but he's not famous for his fighting skills, it's just another part of his résumé under "handsome" and "charismatic" to highlight how awesome he supposedly was. Good fighter I'm sure but better than Barristan and Dayne ? Seriously ?! Take into account that he comes from an era where we don't have that many reknown fighters, before guys like Hightower and Barristan came. Oddly enough all those guys we hear about from then are a bunch of Targaryen princelings and Targ buddies. Coincidence ? I think not. Pretty sure there's a lot of royal propaganda behind all this. His reputation on the battlefield seems to come from the fact that he was a front line fighter as well as the commander of his force like Robb Stark, which naturally generates a lot of hype from his army. Heck his nickname is "The king who bore the sword", another proof of his hype related to the fact that he fought in the vanguard as a general. So yeah as much as Aemon MIGHT be up there, Daemon just looks like an above average fighter whose reputation benefitted from his rockstar reputation.

I like Oberyn but I think again you're overestimating someone a lot. Oberyn better than Selmy ? What. The guy dominated his fight against the Mountains because he used every factor to tip the scales: The Mountain is slow as fuck and Oberyn is quick so he can capitalize on that and afford not to wear armor to be at his quickest, second he uses his shield to deflect the sun in Gregor's face, third he uses poison, and finally his beloved spear is mostly effective because again his opponent is much slower than himself and makes for a big target to hit the armor's joint spots. Any quick swordsman with reflexes and an armor would make short work of that spear. Had it been Sandor in Gregor's place, the Red Viper would've been fucked. The guy is much quicker and negates the speed gap that was everything Oberyn had going for him but still wears full plate which prevents the spear to make easy hits and is much stronger physically, on the other hand Oberyn is butt naked and is less good with a sword than his spear, the fight is over. Jaime and Barristan would slaughter Oberyn. The fact that Jaime is recognized as the fastest knight in Westeros DESPITE wearing full plate on him just completely buries Oberyn's best martial prowess.

Now don't get me wrong Oberyn Martell is a very good fighter but he's far from Westeros all time top 5. The reason why he dominated The Mountain is because everything was there for him to capitalize a mismatch. I'd put him on Garlan Tyrell's level.

Well, glad to be of help ^^ I find Cersei very entertaining and quite hilarious in her POVs so I don't mind her, she's a hottie too. I relate a lot with both Tyrion and Jaime so yeah. Tywin simply has such a fucking aura that I can't help but respect the guy. I don't see him as a villain tbh he's just extremely ruthless which wasn't rare in this time period.

You got it backward, Ramsay was the fan favorite and by a huge margin.

1.Arthur Dayne
2.Prime Barristan Selmy
3.Prime Jaime/Prime Robert (could go either way)

And he's probably the biggest bro in the series so +1 for him. I also like his hedonistic philosophy and the small parallel with Alexander the Great, the whole "At his peak when he has an enemy to defeat" thing.

Starks seems a bit like the easy way out given the ridiculous amount of POVs they have. My second favorite Great House is Lannister, third is likely Tully. Favorite minor Houses in no particular order: Dondarrion, Blackwood, Mormont, Manderly and Dayne.

I have yet to read the Dunk and Egg novels, even though they're lying on my bookshelf right now.

The way they cheaply fucked over Stannis is still the one I'm most pissed about, but Dorne is clearly the biggest clusterfuck they've caused. Braavos was pretty shitty and dumb as well. Given the conclusion of Season 6 they could've very well kept Doran to execute his vengeance and reveal he was plotting all along, I guess D&D wished to appeal to the female empowerment lobbying. Way to waste an outstanding actor like Alexander Siddig for a bunch of unsightly mongrels like the Sand Snakes.

Agreed, the old man really thought his shit through with that one. The amounts of dots connected as the story advances and the ties-in with the past is awesome. It's a bit too bad they don't have the room to expand on the lore in the show, people don't realize how much history Westeros actually has behind it.

Hm I'd say Baratheon. They have the best House words, they partially created the Targaryen dynasty (Orys) by being best bros with it and eventually took it down when it started to mistake its place. That's quite badass. They're a bit like the Northerners of the South in the sense they live in difficult conditions compared to their fancy neighbors but still keep that sense of nobility and political flexibility that the North lacks because of their dumb traditionalism. That's a nice middle ground imo. That and the fact that Bobby B and Stannis are both characters I love. Also their sigil, a stag. Targaryens are a bunch of edge fags with a dragon, Lannisters as well and Stark's is cool but it doesn't come close. The stag is manly and noble enough without need of being the scariest and biggest. They don't need to show how much they're hot shit, people know they are. Black&yellow colors with a disposition for green is cool as well.