Who is the strongest servant in Fate-verse?
Orulyon said: oh and Archer from FSN is obviously a Gil fan, otherwise he wouldnt wear his hair up and would not replicate thousands of....swords. Seems like a disguised Gil fan to me. LOL! This totally made my day xD I feel tempted to put this as one of the best sayings/quotes on MAL in my blog (if you don't mind). Anyhow, no love for FSN Lancer/Cu Chulainn? :/ I also noticed that all F/Z servants get at least one vote. |
sallym613 said: Orulyon said: oh and Archer from FSN is obviously a Gil fan, otherwise he wouldnt wear his hair up and would not replicate thousands of....swords. Seems like a disguised Gil fan to me. LOL! This totally made my day xD I feel tempted to put this as one of the best sayings/quotes on MAL in my blog (if you don't mind). Anyhow, no love for FSN Lancer/Cu Chulainn? :/ I also noticed that all F/Z servants get at least one vote. this is a fate zero thread so obviously fsn servants arent gonna get any love...even though cu chulainn is one of the strongest servants |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
BloodRequiem said: sallym613 said: Orulyon said: oh and Archer from FSN is obviously a Gil fan, otherwise he wouldnt wear his hair up and would not replicate thousands of....swords. Seems like a disguised Gil fan to me. LOL! This totally made my day xD I feel tempted to put this as one of the best sayings/quotes on MAL in my blog (if you don't mind). Anyhow, no love for FSN Lancer/Cu Chulainn? :/ I also noticed that all F/Z servants get at least one vote. this is a fate zero thread so obviously fsn servants arent gonna get any love...even though cu chulainn is one of the strongest servants Except for Archer. And apparently Berserker (Hercules) to some extent... But yes that's true. Especially since theres a lot of people who watched F/Z that have only watched the so-so FSN and UBW anime adaptation. Lancer didn't get to shine much in either, though slightly more so in UBW movie than in FSN anime. I actually didn't start liking or caring for Lancer until I went through the UBW route. He's quite GAR in that one. |
sallym613May 15, 2012 4:05 PM
sallym613 said: BloodRequiem said: sallym613 said: Orulyon said: oh and Archer from FSN is obviously a Gil fan, otherwise he wouldnt wear his hair up and would not replicate thousands of....swords. Seems like a disguised Gil fan to me. LOL! This totally made my day xD I feel tempted to put this as one of the best sayings/quotes on MAL in my blog (if you don't mind). Anyhow, no love for FSN Lancer/Cu Chulainn? :/ I also noticed that all F/Z servants get at least one vote. this is a fate zero thread so obviously fsn servants arent gonna get any love...even though cu chulainn is one of the strongest servants Except for Archer. And apparently Berserker (Hercules) to some extent... But yes that's true. Especially since theres a lot of people who watched F/Z that have only watched the so-so FSN and UBW anime adaptation. Lancer didn't get to shine much in either, though slightly more so in UBW movie than in FSN anime. I actually didn't start liking or caring for Lancer until I went through the UBW route. He's quite GAR in that one. hes right under hercules in the servant tier he can beat archer (EMIYA) easily and seriously UBW was only one example of lancer's GAR that was present in all 3 routes the guy is the epitome of a heroic spirit |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
BloodRequiem said: sallym613 said: BloodRequiem said: sallym613 said: Orulyon said: oh and Archer from FSN is obviously a Gil fan, otherwise he wouldnt wear his hair up and would not replicate thousands of....swords. Seems like a disguised Gil fan to me. LOL! This totally made my day xD I feel tempted to put this as one of the best sayings/quotes on MAL in my blog (if you don't mind). Anyhow, no love for FSN Lancer/Cu Chulainn? :/ I also noticed that all F/Z servants get at least one vote. this is a fate zero thread so obviously fsn servants arent gonna get any love...even though cu chulainn is one of the strongest servants Except for Archer. And apparently Berserker (Hercules) to some extent... But yes that's true. Especially since theres a lot of people who watched F/Z that have only watched the so-so FSN and UBW anime adaptation. Lancer didn't get to shine much in either, though slightly more so in UBW movie than in FSN anime. I actually didn't start liking or caring for Lancer until I went through the UBW route. He's quite GAR in that one. hes right under hercules in the servant tier he can beat archer (EMIYA) easily and seriously UBW was only one example of lancer's GAR that was present in all 3 routes the guy is the epitome of a heroic spirit I was actually only responding to this part: "this is a fate zero thread so obviously fsn servants arent gonna get any love" xD So what I meant is that Archer does get some love from fans lol. But yes I already know that Berserker (Hercules) could beat Archer easily (if there is no plot armor or hax for Archer). I agree with what you mentioned about Lancer. I have only gone through Fate and UBW routes though. And watched the anime. The only other time I remember him being GAR was when he stood against Gil to let Shirou and Saber escape even though he knew he couldn't win (and this is FSN route). I'm guessing there are more GARLancer moments in Heaven's Feel? |
sallym613 said: BloodRequiem said: sallym613 said: BloodRequiem said: sallym613 said: Orulyon said: oh and Archer from FSN is obviously a Gil fan, otherwise he wouldnt wear his hair up and would not replicate thousands of....swords. Seems like a disguised Gil fan to me. LOL! This totally made my day xD I feel tempted to put this as one of the best sayings/quotes on MAL in my blog (if you don't mind). Anyhow, no love for FSN Lancer/Cu Chulainn? :/ I also noticed that all F/Z servants get at least one vote. this is a fate zero thread so obviously fsn servants arent gonna get any love...even though cu chulainn is one of the strongest servants Except for Archer. And apparently Berserker (Hercules) to some extent... But yes that's true. Especially since theres a lot of people who watched F/Z that have only watched the so-so FSN and UBW anime adaptation. Lancer didn't get to shine much in either, though slightly more so in UBW movie than in FSN anime. I actually didn't start liking or caring for Lancer until I went through the UBW route. He's quite GAR in that one. hes right under hercules in the servant tier he can beat archer (EMIYA) easily and seriously UBW was only one example of lancer's GAR that was present in all 3 routes the guy is the epitome of a heroic spirit I was actually only responding to this part: "this is a fate zero thread so obviously fsn servants arent gonna get any love" xD So what I meant is that Archer does get some love from fans lol. But yes I already know that Berserker (Hercules) could beat Archer easily (if there is no plot armor or hax for Archer). I agree with what you mentioned about Lancer. I have only gone through Fate and UBW routes though. And watched the anime. The only other time I remember him being GAR was when he stood against Gil to let Shirou and Saber escape even though he knew he couldn't win (and this is FSN route). I'm guessing there are more GARLancer moments in Heaven's Feel? what i meant was lancer can beat archer easily anyways in HF his role wasnt that expanded but still he put up a good fight when he was being |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
BloodRequiem said: sallym613 said: BloodRequiem said: sallym613 said: BloodRequiem said: sallym613 said: Orulyon said: oh and Archer from FSN is obviously a Gil fan, otherwise he wouldnt wear his hair up and would not replicate thousands of....swords. Seems like a disguised Gil fan to me. LOL! This totally made my day xD I feel tempted to put this as one of the best sayings/quotes on MAL in my blog (if you don't mind). Anyhow, no love for FSN Lancer/Cu Chulainn? :/ I also noticed that all F/Z servants get at least one vote. this is a fate zero thread so obviously fsn servants arent gonna get any love...even though cu chulainn is one of the strongest servants Except for Archer. And apparently Berserker (Hercules) to some extent... But yes that's true. Especially since theres a lot of people who watched F/Z that have only watched the so-so FSN and UBW anime adaptation. Lancer didn't get to shine much in either, though slightly more so in UBW movie than in FSN anime. I actually didn't start liking or caring for Lancer until I went through the UBW route. He's quite GAR in that one. hes right under hercules in the servant tier he can beat archer (EMIYA) easily and seriously UBW was only one example of lancer's GAR that was present in all 3 routes the guy is the epitome of a heroic spirit I was actually only responding to this part: "this is a fate zero thread so obviously fsn servants arent gonna get any love" xD So what I meant is that Archer does get some love from fans lol. But yes I already know that Berserker (Hercules) could beat Archer easily (if there is no plot armor or hax for Archer). I agree with what you mentioned about Lancer. I have only gone through Fate and UBW routes though. And watched the anime. The only other time I remember him being GAR was when he stood against Gil to let Shirou and Saber escape even though he knew he couldn't win (and this is FSN route). I'm guessing there are more GARLancer moments in Heaven's Feel? what i meant was lancer can beat archer easily anyways in HF his role wasnt that expanded but still he put up a good fight when he was being Oh. My bad :X I don't know how I misread that (smh). Also, I wonder if it's possible for Cu Chulainn to beat Gil. Very small chance with his Gae Bolg? |
sallym613 said: Also, I wonder if it's possible for Cu Chulainn to beat Gil. Very small chance with his Gae Bolg? Almost 0 Gilgamesh has Virmana, which means that he is practically untouchable by melee, and a Luck rating of A, which is more than enough to dodge Gae Bolg (Saber dodged it with a B) If this wasn't enough, he also has a small resistance to magic, not that Cu Chulainn's runes would be any threat otherwise, but still... BTW, Gilgamesh also has Gae Bolg... And Cu Chulainn has a Luck rating of E, so he can't dodge it XD... |
Pan151May 15, 2012 11:27 PM
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| Gilgamesh defeated Cu Chuliann in Fate, as stated. Though, didn't it take him like 12 hours to do it, though? That's much better than like, everyone else vs Gilgamesh. |
Pan151 said: sallym613 said: Also, I wonder if it's possible for Cu Chulainn to beat Gil. Very small chance with his Gae Bolg? Almost 0 Gilgamesh has Virmana, which means that he is practically untouchable by melee, and a Luck rating of A, which is more than enough to dodge Gae Bolg (Saber dodged it with a B) If this wasn't enough, he also has a small resistance to magic, not that Cu Chulainn's runes would be any threat otherwise, but still... BTW, Gilgamesh also has Gae Bolg... And Cu Chulainn has a Luck rating of E, so he can't dodge it XD... Gilgamesh can't activate the heart-piercing effect in his version of Gae Bolg, and I'm pretty sure spirit form means that Cu Chulainn can materialize on Vimana if he needs to, like how Diarmuid "teleported" up to Zero Berserker's F-15 jet. Gae Bolg also has the secondary anti-army attack if Cu Chulainn needs to attack from range. So I'd say he has a chance if he acts quick enough with Gae Bolg before Gilgamesh is able to spam either GoB or Ea to its fullest extent. |
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ataraxial said: Pan151 said: sallym613 said: Also, I wonder if it's possible for Cu Chulainn to beat Gil. Very small chance with his Gae Bolg? Almost 0 Gilgamesh has Virmana, which means that he is practically untouchable by melee, and a Luck rating of A, which is more than enough to dodge Gae Bolg (Saber dodged it with a B) If this wasn't enough, he also has a small resistance to magic, not that Cu Chulainn's runes would be any threat otherwise, but still... BTW, Gilgamesh also has Gae Bolg... And Cu Chulainn has a Luck rating of E, so he can't dodge it XD... Gilgamesh can't activate the heart-piercing effect in his version of Gae Bolg, and I'm pretty sure spirit form means that Cu Chulainn can materialize on Vimana if he needs to, like how Diarmuid "teleported" up to Zero Berserker's F-15 jet. Gae Bolg also has the secondary anti-army attack if Cu Chulainn needs to attack from range. So I'd say he has a chance if he acts quick enough with Gae Bolg before Gilgamesh is able to spam either GoB or Ea to its fullest extent. enkidu = gg Gilgamesh defeated Cu Chuliann in Fate, as stated. Though, didn't it take him like 12 hours to do it, though? That's much better than like, everyone else vs Gilgamesh. assuming that servants in 1 route dont use "route specific" stuff from other routes (like how archer doesnt use UBW against berserker) he prob didnt use enkidu on him |
BloodRequiemMay 16, 2012 7:58 AM
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
ataraxial said: Pan151 said: sallym613 said: Also, I wonder if it's possible for Cu Chulainn to beat Gil. Very small chance with his Gae Bolg? Almost 0 Gilgamesh has Virmana, which means that he is practically untouchable by melee, and a Luck rating of A, which is more than enough to dodge Gae Bolg (Saber dodged it with a B) If this wasn't enough, he also has a small resistance to magic, not that Cu Chulainn's runes would be any threat otherwise, but still... BTW, Gilgamesh also has Gae Bolg... And Cu Chulainn has a Luck rating of E, so he can't dodge it XD... Gilgamesh can't activate the heart-piercing effect in his version of Gae Bolg, and I'm pretty sure spirit form means that Cu Chulainn can materialize on Vimana if he needs to, like how Diarmuid "teleported" up to Zero Berserker's F-15 jet. Gae Bolg also has the secondary anti-army attack if Cu Chulainn needs to attack from range. So I'd say he has a chance if he acts quick enough with Gae Bolg before Gilgamesh is able to spam either GoB or Ea to its fullest extent. Servants can fly in spirit form? I'm pretty sure Lancer can't do anything if Gil is 5000 feet in the air. |
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Ragna92 said: ataraxial said: Pan151 said: sallym613 said: Also, I wonder if it's possible for Cu Chulainn to beat Gil. Very small chance with his Gae Bolg? Almost 0 Gilgamesh has Virmana, which means that he is practically untouchable by melee, and a Luck rating of A, which is more than enough to dodge Gae Bolg (Saber dodged it with a B) If this wasn't enough, he also has a small resistance to magic, not that Cu Chulainn's runes would be any threat otherwise, but still... BTW, Gilgamesh also has Gae Bolg... And Cu Chulainn has a Luck rating of E, so he can't dodge it XD... Gilgamesh can't activate the heart-piercing effect in his version of Gae Bolg, and I'm pretty sure spirit form means that Cu Chulainn can materialize on Vimana if he needs to, like how Diarmuid "teleported" up to Zero Berserker's F-15 jet. Gae Bolg also has the secondary anti-army attack if Cu Chulainn needs to attack from range. So I'd say he has a chance if he acts quick enough with Gae Bolg before Gilgamesh is able to spam either GoB or Ea to its fullest extent. Servants can fly in spirit form? I'm pretty sure Lancer can't do anything if Gil is 5000 feet in the air. Yep, he could... but then Gil could also go in spirit form and Lancer would find himself dropping from 5000 feet... Also, @ataraxial, the thrown version of Gae Bolg does not pierce the heart, but rather acts like a storm of homing missiles. I'm pretty sure it can be countered with Gate of Babylon... and also, could you point where it's mentioned that Gil's Gae Bolg doesn't have the same heart-piercing effect? All I know is it just suffers a rank-down due to Gil being only an owner and not a wielder, and in UBW it's still mentioned as a heart-piercing lance in his fight vs Berserker... |
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Pan151 said: Ragna92 said: ataraxial said: Pan151 said: sallym613 said: Also, I wonder if it's possible for Cu Chulainn to beat Gil. Very small chance with his Gae Bolg? Almost 0 Gilgamesh has Virmana, which means that he is practically untouchable by melee, and a Luck rating of A, which is more than enough to dodge Gae Bolg (Saber dodged it with a B) If this wasn't enough, he also has a small resistance to magic, not that Cu Chulainn's runes would be any threat otherwise, but still... BTW, Gilgamesh also has Gae Bolg... And Cu Chulainn has a Luck rating of E, so he can't dodge it XD... Gilgamesh can't activate the heart-piercing effect in his version of Gae Bolg, and I'm pretty sure spirit form means that Cu Chulainn can materialize on Vimana if he needs to, like how Diarmuid "teleported" up to Zero Berserker's F-15 jet. Gae Bolg also has the secondary anti-army attack if Cu Chulainn needs to attack from range. So I'd say he has a chance if he acts quick enough with Gae Bolg before Gilgamesh is able to spam either GoB or Ea to its fullest extent. Servants can fly in spirit form? I'm pretty sure Lancer can't do anything if Gil is 5000 feet in the air. Yep, he could... but then Gil could also go in spirit form and Lancer would find himself dropping from 5000 feet... Also, @ataraxial, the thrown version of Gae Bolg does not pierce the heart, but rather acts like a storm of homing missiles. I'm pretty sure it can be countered with Gate of Babylon... and also, could you point where it's mentioned that Gil's Gae Bolg doesn't have the same heart-piercing effect? All I know is it just suffers a rank-down due to Gil being only an owner and not a wielder, and in UBW it's still mentioned as a heart-piercing lance in his fight vs Berserker... Yeah, I don't really know how I feel about spirit form since it seems very OP in general. Assuming it works the way I think it does, shouldn't Cu Chulainn be able to then go into spirit form to avoid falling X amount of feet? Perhaps the the amount of prana required makes it unwieldly to spam which is why we don't see it used in combat particularly often. Anyways, yeah, the thrown version doesn't have the heart-piercing effect, but I was just pointing out that he can has a very powerful ranged attack as well. As for Gilgamesh's version of Gae Bolg, I'm not going to bother digging it up since it was definitely discussed at some point in this thread. Basically, Gil can't activate special modes of attack that are specific to other Heroic Spirits' Noble Phantasms, although passive abilities like those on his versions of Gae Dearg and Gae Buidhe would still be in effect. But if Gil were serious and had no route-specifics issues, Enkidu would stop Cu Chulainn without much effort like BR said since his divinity is ranked at B. |
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| Gil's version is not gae bolg its gungnir and doesnt have the heart piercing effects "a spear to pierce the heart" merely meant that he used to spear to pierce berserker's heart not that it had the effect all servants can turn into spirit form at will except for saber so dropping from 5000 feet doesnt do anything in fact spirit form isnt even a factor in servant to servant battles |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
| ^Gae Bolg is Cu Chulainn's signature weapon and as such all of it's special properties are specific to Cu Chulainn. Gil has a strong prototype that doesn't has the same properties since all the heart piercing and such legends are linked to Lancer's version. Fate/Stay Night's Visual Novel repeated this fact several times, specially in UBW route. Basically it's like this: Gilgamesh owns all the prototypes...he even has an early version of what was later to become Caliburn but it's not Caliburn, it's Gram, the legendary sword wielded by Sigurd in the Norse Legends. Let's not even get into the fact Gilgamesh doesn't even truly know how to use most of his treasures. He was a collector but he doesn't posess the martial skill to use every single weapon he owned. His trademark weapons that he can command to perfection are Enkidu and Ea. |
Leon-GunMay 16, 2012 3:36 PM
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Pan151 said: Ragna92 said: Servants can fly in spirit form? I'm pretty sure Lancer can't do anything if Gil is 5000 feet in the air. Yep, he could... but then Gil could also go in spirit form and Lancer would find himself dropping from 5000 feet... Lol when I read this, this is the first thing I imagined: A Carnival Phantasm episode where that sort of situation happens and Lancer tries to convert back to spirit form, but Seihai-kun uses its mystical powers to prevent that from happening just so that it can see Lancer die instead. That would be quite hilarious to watch ^ but I would feel so bad for Lancer xD; (Being Lancer is suffering...) Speaking of spirit form, what exactly happens though? I know the servants turn invisible, but how does that give them the ability to appear again anywhere they want? Do they turn into particles that can float or fly anywhere? I didn't think too much about it until the episode when Lancer Zero went into spirit form and somehow reappeared on Berserker Zero's jet. That got me really confused. Funny how I didn't wonder about it when I first read it in LN. |
| Not quoting the post because lazy but yeah, I'm just going to assume that in their battle in Fate that either Gilgamesh didn't want to use Enkidu or Cu Chuliann's Protection From Projectiles skill saved him from Enkidu (and also let him last against Gate of Babylon). Also spirit form dematerializes the Servant's physical body into mana or something, doesn't it? Presumably, they can move faster in that form. |
TheRealBoyd said: Not quoting the post because lazy but yeah, I'm just going to assume that in their battle in Fate that either Gilgamesh didn't want to use Enkidu or Cu Chuliann's Protection From Projectiles skill saved him from Enkidu (and also let him last against Gate of Babylon). Also spirit form dematerializes the Servant's physical body into mana or something, doesn't it? Presumably, they can move faster in that form. he prob didnt use enkidu lancer's projectile protection doesnt work against stuff he doesnt see and enkidu is said to come out of nowhere and bind even the space itself |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
sallym613 said: Lol when I read this, this is the first thing I imagined: A Carnival Phantasm episode where that sort of situation happens and Lancer tries to convert back to spirit form, but Seihai-kun uses its mystical powers to prevent that from happening just so that it can see Lancer die instead. That would be quite hilarious to watch ^ but I would feel so bad for Lancer xD; (Being Lancer is suffering...) Speaking of spirit form, what exactly happens though? I know the servants turn invisible, but how does that give them the ability to appear again anywhere they want? Do they turn into particles that can float or fly anywhere? I didn't think too much about it until the episode when Lancer Zero went into spirit form and somehow reappeared on Berserker Zero's jet. That got me really confused. Funny how I didn't wonder about it when I first read it in LN. That would be pretty funny with Lancer, although I doubt that Seihai-kun would do that much. All that he ever does is magically materialize knives out of nowhere and let them fall onto the floor. Maybe what could happen is that some bizarre turn of events causes Kirei and Shirou to switch their command spells so that Lancer is unable to go into spirit form. After all, Shirou wouldn't know how to do it after being Saber's master and being useless as a magus to boot. |
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Veldril said: ataraxial said: sallym613 said: Lol when I read this, this is the first thing I imagined: A Carnival Phantasm episode where that sort of situation happens and Lancer tries to convert back to spirit form, but Seihai-kun uses its mystical powers to prevent that from happening just so that it can see Lancer die instead. That would be quite hilarious to watch ^ but I would feel so bad for Lancer xD; (Being Lancer is suffering...) Speaking of spirit form, what exactly happens though? I know the servants turn invisible, but how does that give them the ability to appear again anywhere they want? Do they turn into particles that can float or fly anywhere? I didn't think too much about it until the episode when Lancer Zero went into spirit form and somehow reappeared on Berserker Zero's jet. That got me really confused. Funny how I didn't wonder about it when I first read it in LN. That would be pretty funny with Lancer, although I doubt that Seihai-kun would do that much. All that he ever does is magically materialize knives out of nowhere and let them fall onto the floor. Maybe what could happen is that some bizarre turn of events causes Kirei and Shirou to switch their command spells so that Lancer is unable to go into spirit form. After all, Shirou wouldn't know how to do it after being Saber's master and being useless as a magus to boot. It's not actually Shirou's fault that Saber cannot goes back to a spirit form. Saber is an incomplete Heroic Spirit (being a copy of someone who is still alive due to a pact make with the World), therefore cannot turn into a spirit form. Yes, I am aware of that. |
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| Well, if Lancer doesn't get hit by Enkidu, he could theoretically start off with Gae Bolg and finish it right there. Saber did survive it, but she also had instinct and was injured in the end. As far as I'm concerned if Lancer wasn't held back by the plot he could go around soloing most the servants with Gae Bolg (except Berserker, and Gilgamesh if Gilgamesh is serious / has the jump) Gae Bolg has such a broken concept. |
LostHanyou said: It has a broken concept but it has limitations. An interesting one is the fact that it does has a range limit so long range fighters can easily dance away out of Lancer's range. This may have been part of the reason he uses the Anti-Army attack against Archer rather than the regular Gae Bolg. Also, the reverse causality only kicks in after Lancer activates the spear but it can be stopped while the mana is still being gathered. This is actually not a terrible drawback since it's a an almost 100% kill attack so the enemy is not expected to know it's coming as he has never faced it. It only ever became a problem because of his "fight all Servants to a draw" Command Spell.Well, if Lancer doesn't get hit by Enkidu, he could theoretically start off with Gae Bolg and finish it right there. Saber did survive it, but she also had instinct and was injured in the end. As far as I'm concerned if Lancer wasn't held back by the plot he could go around soloing most the servants with Gae Bolg (except Berserker, and Gilgamesh if Gilgamesh is serious / has the jump) Gae Bolg has such a broken concept. Then there's the limitation of rank of Gae Bolg itself. Gae Bolg is actually a mere Rank B lance which is ussually not important when it comes to his instant-kill effect except when he faces enemies like Heracles who has the ability to neutralize anything below Rank A, which basically gives Lancer no chance of defeating Heracles. Although it's not like many people had any chance of defeating Heracles outside of those with access to EX armament and unlimited weaponry. |
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| http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2012-05-20/mynavi-poll/strongest-fate/zero-master-and-servant What a bullshit ranking. Might as well call it "Who are the most popular Masters and Servants?" |
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stAtic91 said: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2012-05-20/mynavi-poll/strongest-fate/zero-master-and-servant What a bullshit ranking. Might as well call it "Who are the most popular Masters and Servants?" Who vote in this?it looks more like "servants you would like to sleep with" poll |
ssjokg said: stAtic91 said: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2012-05-20/mynavi-poll/strongest-fate/zero-master-and-servant What a bullshit ranking. Might as well call it "Who are the most popular Masters and Servants?" Who vote in this?it looks more like "servants you would like to sleep with" poll thats the problem with polls retarded people who dont know shit voting for their favourite characters and emiya kiritsugu strongest master lmfao kayneth is best in terms of magecraft kirei beats the rest in physical capabilities meh im not surprised its ANN bunch of wankers and im going to assume 18.2% voting for assassins are trolls |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
BloodRequiem said: ssjokg said: stAtic91 said: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2012-05-20/mynavi-poll/strongest-fate/zero-master-and-servant What a bullshit ranking. Might as well call it "Who are the most popular Masters and Servants?" Who vote in this?it looks more like "servants you would like to sleep with" poll thats the problem with polls retarded people who dont know shit voting for their favourite characters and emiya kiritsugu strongest master lmfao kayneth is best in terms of magecraft kirei beats the rest in physical capabilities meh im not surprised its ANN bunch of wankers and im going to assume 18.2% voting for assassins are trolls I want to believe that they are trolls, but Hanlon's Razor states that you should: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." So yeah. It's more likely they're just retards. Thinking that Kiritsugu is the strongest master actually makes sense for when the poll was taken (episode 15), it's not clear how strong Kirei is, and Kerry completely owned the shit out of Team Lancer and especially Kayneth. I agree that Kayneth is the best in magecraft and everything, but that alone doesn't make him necessary better as a master than Kerry. |
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| Gilgamesh. Because Fate/side material said that if he ever manages to put aside his overwhelming pride and go all-out, nobody can defeat him. |
stAtic91 said: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2012-05-20/mynavi-poll/strongest-fate/zero-master-and-servant What a bullshit ranking. Might as well call it "Who are the most popular Masters and Servants?" Nearly died laughing when I saw the poll results for Assassin. |
sallym613May 20, 2012 1:45 PM
qiuqiu said: Interesting fact is that Gilgamesh, with Tokiomi as Master, is actually even stronger than when he was paired up with Kirei due to just how overpowered Tokiomi is at magecraft. Kirei is a below average magus in comparison, which actually makes him a real threat to Kiritsugu (since he's well-versed in countering more traditional weaponry like guns, as he demonstrated when he totally owned Maiya).Gilgamesh. Because Fate/side material said that if he ever manages to put aside his overwhelming pride and go all-out, nobody can defeat him. I think Kiritsugu had a good sense in the power and skill of all Masters in the fourth Grail War. He correctly identified Tokiomi and Kayneth as the strongest magi at the tournament, giving Tokiomi the edge because he's harder to bait (he could have actually proven a strong opponent for Kiritsugu due to the fact he has less liabilities, he even hid his wife and daughter so they wouldn't be used against him and to keep them safe). It's too bad we never even saw a taste of Tokiomi vs Kiri. Honestly, I think Tokiomi was the strongest Master in the war, if he hadn't trusted Kirei so blindly. |
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Leon-Gun said: qiuqiu said: Interesting fact is that Gilgamesh, with Tokiomi as Master, is actually even stronger than when he was paired up with Kirei due to just how overpowered Tokiomi is at magecraft. Kirei is a below average magus in comparison, which actually makes him a real threat to Kiritsugu (since he's well-versed in countering more traditional weaponry like guns, as he demonstrated when he totally owned Maiya).Gilgamesh. Because Fate/side material said that if he ever manages to put aside his overwhelming pride and go all-out, nobody can defeat him. I think Kiritsugu had a good sense in the power and skill of all Masters in the fourth Grail War. He correctly identified Tokiomi and Kayneth as the strongest magi at the tournament, giving Tokiomi the edge because he's harder to bait (he could have actually proven a strong opponent for Kiritsugu due to the fact he has less liabilities, he even hid his wife and daughter so they wouldn't be used against him and to keep them safe). It's too bad we never even saw a taste of Tokiomi vs Kiri. Honestly, I think Tokiomi was the strongest Master in the war, if he hadn't trusted Kirei so blindly. I just realized how parallel the Kayneth/Kerry and Tokiomi/Kirei situations were. Both Kayneth and Tokiomi had the same (potentially) debilitating weaknesses: overconfidence in and overreliance on magecraft (more so for Kayneth) and trust in his accomplice (Sola-Ui and Kirei, although this is more relevant for Tokiomi), respectively. Both were defeated by the only person who could counter them most effectively, and both of their defeats were as a result of some type of betrayal. Kayneth and Tokiomi are also similar as simply being powerful and traditionalist magi who have straightforward goals, while Kerry and Kirei are similar in being moderately competent magi whose strengths lie in comparatively non-standard tactics. Edit: Okay, maybe I'm taking this too far, but there's also the fact that the first two servant battles were Assassin vs. Archer and Saber vs. Lancer. Both of them involved the traditionalist magus "winning" while the other servant suffered some kind of wound. This ultimately turns around, with Lancer destroying Gae Buidhe for Saber to use Excalibur and Gilgamesh abandoning Tokiomi for Kirei. |
ataraxialMay 20, 2012 7:19 PM
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ataraxial said: Intentional or not those are some pretty nice parallels. The fact the Fate universe always equates Kirei with Kiritsugu as some sort of fated pair makes it even more fitting.I just realized how parallel the Kayneth/Kerry and Tokiomi/Kirei situations were. Both Kayneth and Tokiomi had the same (potentially) debilitating weaknesses: overconfidence in and overreliance on magecraft (more so for Kayneth) and trust in his accomplice (Sola-Ui and Kirei, although this is more relevant for Tokiomi), respectively. Both were defeated by the only person who could counter them most effectively, and both of their defeats were as a result of some type of betrayal. Kayneth and Tokiomi are also similar as simply being powerful and traditionalist magi who have straightforward goals, while Kerry and Kirei are similar in being moderately competent magi whose strengths lie in comparatively non-standard tactics. Edit: Okay, maybe I'm taking this too far, but there's also the fact that the first two servant battles were Assassin vs. Archer and Saber vs. Lancer. Both of them involved the traditionalist magus "winning" while the other servant suffered some kind of wound. This ultimately turns around, with Lancer destroying Gae Dearg for Saber to use Excalibur and Gilgamesh abandoning Tokiomi for Kirei. |
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Leon-Gun said: ataraxial said: Intentional or not those are some pretty nice parallels. The fact the Fate universe always equates Kirei with Kiritsugu as some sort of fated pair makes it even more fitting.I just realized how parallel the Kayneth/Kerry and Tokiomi/Kirei situations were. Both Kayneth and Tokiomi had the same (potentially) debilitating weaknesses: overconfidence in and overreliance on magecraft (more so for Kayneth) and trust in his accomplice (Sola-Ui and Kirei, although this is more relevant for Tokiomi), respectively. Both were defeated by the only person who could counter them most effectively, and both of their defeats were as a result of some type of betrayal. Kayneth and Tokiomi are also similar as simply being powerful and traditionalist magi who have straightforward goals, while Kerry and Kirei are similar in being moderately competent magi whose strengths lie in comparatively non-standard tactics. Edit: Okay, maybe I'm taking this too far, but there's also the fact that the first two servant battles were Assassin vs. Archer and Saber vs. Lancer. Both of them involved the traditionalist magus "winning" while the other servant suffered some kind of wound. This ultimately turns around, with Lancer destroying Gae Dearg for Saber to use Excalibur and Gilgamesh abandoning Tokiomi for Kirei. I'm thinking that it's mostly intentional. And yup, Kirei and Kerry are set up to be counterparts who are to fulfill each other's destinies from the very first episode with that inter-spliced monologue scene. |
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| Gilgamesh is the stronger. However, Saber with Avalon, Rider Iskandar and Zero Berserker with Masters who can provide them prana (also quality affects summon stats), and Herakles in any other Class that ISN'T freaking Berserker would be powerful. Likewise a couple of Servants of Extra and Apocrypha. Cu Chulainn Lancer is a great Servant too, when he's not weakened by Command Spells. Thalos said: For Iskander: Visual Book I also stated that his servants have their Noble Phantasms, except for those with stronger stats than his. He can't materialize them due to capacity limitations. Lol, so that bs of "Those are level E noble phantasm-less Servants" was just pure fanwank. It was strange because the only mentioned stat in the LN was Independent Action E- outside the RM. Although I wonder who among his armies has higher stats and power than him (with Waver as Master)? BloodRequiem said: and who the hell voted for zero berseker? total wanker there Nasu. He even called him "Too Strong" who could have "easily taken out the other Servants." The thing about Zero Berserker is that he is extremely skilled, versatile and has so many plothax abilities. Even EMIYA Archer, formerly crowned prince of plot armor in life, acknowledges him as superior if I recall correctly from one of his win quotes of Fate/Unlimited Codes. |
ThessMay 20, 2012 11:06 PM
| for zero zerker: kariya was always providing him with enough prana and even if he is a better master, lancelots not gonna get any better stats since most of his stats r A but iskander...with a shitty master like waver hes still got some pretty sweet stats if he really was summoned by kayneth...god... |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
BloodRequiem said: for zero zerker: kariya was always providing him with enough prana and even if he is a better master, lancelots not gonna get any better stats since most of his stats r A With his fame He wasn't provided enough prana since Kariya was barely a magus too... BloodRequiem said: but iskander...with a shitty master like waver hes still got some pretty sweet stats if he really was summoned by kayneth...god... Waver is mid tier at best, but a Master like Rin or Kayneth would be good. The issue is that Rider would need better someone like Illya who he can take prana without feeling I MUSTN'T ENDANGER YOUR LIFE. However, with a better Master, his stats would skyrocket and thus his most powerful men will get their Noble Phantasms. A lot of the Servant 'powers' will depend on their Masters. Look at Avenger, weakest Servant ever, but he becomes a threat when when someone has Bazett backing them. |
Thess said: BloodRequiem said: for zero zerker: kariya was always providing him with enough prana and even if he is a better master, lancelots not gonna get any better stats since most of his stats r A With his fame He wasn't provided enough prana since Kariya was barely a magus too... BloodRequiem said: but iskander...with a shitty master like waver hes still got some pretty sweet stats if he really was summoned by kayneth...god... Waver is mid tier at best, but a Master like Rin or Kayneth would be good. The issue is that Rider would need better someone like Illya who he can take prana without feeling I MUSTN'T ENDANGER YOUR LIFE. However, with a better Master, his stats would skyrocket and thus his most powerful men will get their Noble Phantasms. A lot of the Servant 'powers' will depend on their Masters. Look at Avenger, weakest Servant ever, but he becomes a threat when when someone has Bazett backing them. kariya was constantly providing enough prana to berserker for his maximum output until he finally snapped he cant control the worms from producing prana and its not like hes against it (what was that quote again? he was telling the worms to devour him or something) and lancelot doesnt have the concept of holding back on prana usage like rider does hes a berserker after all lancelot can only be summoned into the berserker class in the 4th war (arturia can only be summoned into saber and kiritsugu has a strong relic like avalon...only other possible class is prob assassin cuz idk for someone else's glory but hassan was summoned before lancelot so thats a no go) so again even if kariya is a better master it would just be a useless mad enhancement (all the mad enhancements were useless anyways...NP usage above stats anyday) |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
| @BloodRequiem You forget that Servants summoned by 'weaker' magus get their stats lowered by the beginning. That's how they decided to summon him as Berserker, because Kariya's "quality" would weaken him otherwise. That's my point. I forgot to say. The strongest 'team' is likely Kirei (who is at his prime with those command spells that would allow him to defeat freaking Ciel if he wanted to use them) and Gilgamesh in Fate/Zero. |
Thess said: @BloodRequiem You forget that Servants summoned by 'weaker' magus get their stats lowered by the beginning. That's how they decided to summon him as Berserker, because Kariya's "quality" would weaken him otherwise. That's my point. I forgot to say. The strongest 'team' is likely Kirei (who is at his prime with those command spells that would allow him to defeat freaking Ciel if he wanted to use them) and Gilgamesh in Fate/Zero. but then what other class can the grail fit him into other than a berserker? arturia can only be summoned as a saber and kiritsugu is using avalon as a relic so im pretty sure she takes priority in the saber class |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
BloodRequiem said: No, She doesn't get priority, it all depends on who summons first. Most people seem to get the idea she gets "priority" because she can "only" be summoned as a Saber and because she has that contract for the Grail but the contract doesn't mean she gets summoned to every single opportunity where a Grail is present, otherwise they'd have to somehow retcon an explanation as to why there was no Arturia Saber in Extra (instead we got Gawain and Nero).Thess said: @BloodRequiem You forget that Servants summoned by 'weaker' magus get their stats lowered by the beginning. That's how they decided to summon him as Berserker, because Kariya's "quality" would weaken him otherwise. That's my point. I forgot to say. The strongest 'team' is likely Kirei (who is at his prime with those command spells that would allow him to defeat freaking Ciel if he wanted to use them) and Gilgamesh in Fate/Zero. but then what other class can the grail fit him into other than a berserker? arturia can only be summoned as a saber and kiritsugu is using avalon as a relic so im pretty sure she takes priority in the saber class |
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BloodRequiem said: but then what other class can the grail fit him into other than a berserker? arturia can only be summoned as a saber and kiritsugu is using avalon as a relic so im pretty sure she takes priority in the saber class That's irrelevant. He was purposefully summoned as Berserker to compensate Kariya's weakness (and for lulz). Considering he's a Master of all weapons? Likely Lancer. He wouldn't get his sword, though. And as Leon-Gun said. Saber doesn't get priority at all. All depends who gets summoned first. Had Kayneth summoned Diarmuid as Saber a day before (he wanted him as Saber), she'll be out of this contest. Or hell Kariya had without getting Lancelot Zerker'ed a night earlier, he would have gotten Lancelot as Saber. Probably then whoever Kiritsugu summoned would be someone else linked to the sheath. The Lady of the Lake as Caster, maybe? |
Thess said: @BloodRequiem The strongest 'team' is likely Kirei (who is at his prime with those command spells that would allow him to defeat freaking Ciel if he wanted to use them) and Gilgamesh in Fate/Zero. Actually no, many of Gil's stats and skills suffer a rank-down when Kirei gets him, due to him being inferior to Tokiomi. And Kirei himself is much weaker than Tokiomi... |
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Thess said: And as Leon-Gun said. Saber doesn't get priority at all. All depends who gets summoned first. Had Kayneth summoned Diarmuid as Saber a day before (he wanted him as Saber), she'll be out of this contest. Or hell Kariya had without getting Lancelot Zerker'ed a night earlier, he would have gotten Lancelot as Saber. Probably then whoever Kiritsugu summoned would be someone else linked to the sheath. The Lady of the Lake as Caster, maybe? Well, pretty much that. If you don't summon your servant fast enough, you will most likely lose the opportunity to summon the class you want. Gilles de Rais especially should not have been summoned as a Caster. He was never able to use magic, in fact he can't use magic even as a Caster (just like Shinji in f/sn, he just relies on his magic book) His normal classes are most probably Saber and Berserker, but there was no other class left to take when his catalyst appeared in front of the summoning cyrcle, so he was forced to appear as a caster. As for what if Saber was taken... well, since I believe the lady of the Lake is a divine spirit, and as such cannot be summoned as a servant, I believe that Arturia would be forced into an unfavorable class. She chould probably be semi-decent as a Lancer, because she did have a lance irl (Rhongomiant) or even as aRider, but she wouldn't be anywhere near as good as if she was Saber. Hell, she could probably even make a semi-decent Assasin, due to her magic dagger (Carnwennan), but I highly doubt she would agree on a cowardly role such as spying and assasination without the use of Command Seals... Though Gilles was pretty good for a servant summoned under the wrong class - not many legitimate Casters could have done anything as grand as the summoning of Cthulu... |
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| It still wasn't with his power however. Caster was, all the time, using Prelati's knowledge of summoning. As for Arturia being drawn to a different class, I don't know if the rules allow for it. SHe can't be an Assassin due to the class limitation (Sasaki Koujirou wasn't really an Assassin, he was a wandering spirit who stole the seventh spot, therefore not even a true class and didn't even posess a Noble Phantasm), and unless they retconned, Arturia states clearly to Shirou that she can only be a Saber, possibly because the legend of Excalibur is too well-known for her to be anything else. For example, Giles de Rais, while not a magus himself had an infamous tale linking him to summoning of demons and human sacrifices which lends him some cred for the Caster class. That said, if they did retconned her statement, she could easily fit the Lancer class, and they may even stretch it into the Rider class if necessary (Arthur had some obscure horses linked to his name, much like any well known warrior King/Emperor plus all Knights were trained in horse-riding and jousting). |
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Leon-Gun said: It still wasn't with his power however. Caster was, all the time, using Prelati's knowledge of summoning. As for Arturia being drawn to a different class, I don't know if the rules allow for it. SHe can't be an Assassin due to the class limitation (Sasaki Koujirou wasn't really an Assassin, he was a wandering spirit who stole the seventh spot, therefore not even a true class and didn't even posess a Noble Phantasm), and unless they retconned, Arturia states clearly to Shirou that she can only be a Saber, possibly because the legend of Excalibur is too well-known for her to be anything else. For example, Giles de Rais, while not a magus himself had an infamous tale linking him to summoning of demons and human sacrifices which lends him some cred for the Caster class. That said, if they did retconned her statement, she could easily fit the Lancer class, and they may even stretch it into the Rider class if necessary (Arthur had some obscure horses linked to his name, much like any well known warrior King/Emperor plus all Knights were trained in horse-riding and jousting). Yeah I think she is limited to Saber, although it would make sense for her to be a Lancer or Rider otherwise. |
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| Well, yeah, she is limited to Saber, but we are talking about being forced into classes that the Servant shouldn't normally be able to be summoned under. Like Kojirou summoned as assasin instead of Saber and Gilles as Caster instead of Saber/Berserker/whatever he normally is. They normally shouldn't be able to be summoned as such, but due to the special circumstances they were. Summoning a servant under a wrong class is not that uncommon. Arturia could have been summoned like that very, very easily if Saber was taken at that time. Maybe not by a proper master like Kiritsugu, but certainly by Shirou... |
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Pan151 said: Hmm, By Shirou, possibly. After all, the reason Rin got Archer was because EMIYA's best skill was always archery even though he glorified knights and magi. If Rin had gotten the right catalyst for the Saber class (instead of unwittingly using a catalyst that symbolized a warrior of the future) she could have forced an odd situation for Shirou, since Shirou could only really summon someone linked to Avalon, never mind the fact he dreamt of Excalibur before he even summoned her.Well, yeah, she is limited to Saber, but we are talking about being forced into classes that the Servant shouldn't normally be able to be summoned under. Like Kojirou summoned as assasin instead of Saber and Gilles as Caster instead of Saber/Berserker/whatever he normally is. They normally shouldn't be able to be summoned as such, but due to the special circumstances they were. Summoning a servant under a wrong class is not that uncommon. Arturia could have been summoned like that very, very easily if Saber was taken at that time. Maybe not by a proper master like Kiritsugu, but certainly by Shirou... |
Leon-GunMay 21, 2012 12:51 PM
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Pan151 said: Actually no, many of Gil's stats and skills suffer a rank-down when Kirei gets him, due to him being inferior to Tokiomi. And Kirei himself is much weaker than Tokiomi... Not really. Tokiomi is a mediocre magus. Kirei has plenty of command spells to become Servant Level when he wants in FZ (though he never does this). Each can even power up Gil even further if he wants to use them. If FSN Kotomine can easily take down Rin (according to Nasu) who is more the magus that her dad is, Tokiomi is a lightweight. Kirei in FZ =/= Kirei in FSN. Nowhere in the novel the parameters were said to be 'affected'. Furthermore, you're overlooking the compatibility which is a big deal (look at Kiritsugu and Saber, a lot of misunderstandings could have been cleared if they talked with each other). Gil and Tokiomi wouldn't do anything together because he can't stand him. Tokiomi can't handle his Servant either. Meanwhile, Gil and Kirei are the most compatible team in Fate/Zero (with Caster and Ryuunosuke). Dangerous people who were on the same page with complete trust in each other. Even the FZ novel remarks how dangerous they are together. Those are other factors that play in their favor. It is a mix of broken Master (in terms of deadly abilities), broken Servant (also this. Stats being potentially lower doesn't matter when the NP aren't affected) with a good chemistry who can work together. Put Gil with, say, Rin. And while his stats would be superior, he wouldn't do anything. He would be too busy trying to kill his Master for forcing a command spell on him. Her "wish" or the lack-thereof (must do this because of tradition) would make him turn against her immediately because she's 'boring' (like he judged the wishes from Kayneth and Waver). Pan151 said: Well, yeah, she is limited to Saber, but we are talking about being forced into classes that the Servant shouldn't normally be able to be summoned under. Like Kojirou summoned as assasin instead of Saber and Gilles as Caster instead of Saber/Berserker/whatever he normally is. They normally shouldn't be able to be summoned as such, but due to the special circumstances they were. Summoning a servant under a wrong class is not that uncommon. Because of the tainted grail, yep. Now I want to see an AU with Arturia as Lancer and Diarmuid as Saber. |
ThessMay 21, 2012 1:50 PM
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