Killing kids in anime?

Sep 26, 2011 12:45 AM

#101

Den-kun

Offline

Sep 2011

148

sorry for the veeeery long quoted replies. i'll just put spoiler tags here as well. Sumimasen :))

Seijurou said:

Denniz said:
well.. this conversation is much better than before. there's no need to blow our top off just because someone's opinion gets into our nerves. you proved a very solid point there my friend. however we can't deny that there are still some possibilities that a show can affect a child. it's just like watching a horror movie. when a child have seen a horror movie, it's only normal for them to be scared and think that ghosts/monsters exists. another example of a show that can affect a person is porn/hentai (i know we're drifting away from the topic a little) in a way that it may turn a person lustful. so in my humble opinion, there are some shows that really has to be shown with less exaggeration and exposure.

some of those are proven, some are just opinion so i really hope we can understand and respect each other's way of thinking. thank's for the very interesting exchange of thoughts and cooling down your temper buddy. i'm looking forward to read your reply.

No problem. I just thought a "change of color" would be nice. The last people I argued with were not as respectful or reasonable as you are, so I was kind of edgy, I guess.

You made a good point regarding horror movies scaring children, though they normally grow out of it, but I don't know about porn, since kids usually think it is disgusting. Again, like I said, I agree that television does affect them to some extent. Still, all of this warrants limiting access to minors, as the law already stands, but we shouldn't take away adults' joy just because of "possible" effects in case under-age individuals view these things. Use parental control. Block channels, if you want. Can you imagine what it would be like if all mature products were taken off the shelves? What's the difference between killing off ten or one hundred people in a show? Screw one, screw them all. There is no need to be over-protective. This is a tough world that those little boys and girls will have to deal with some day, and the sooner they learn about it, the better prepared they will be. Plus, they will always find a way to peek at what the grown-ups are doing.

However, even in 18+ media, censorship still exists. Take Scream for example. The first part of the motion picture was edited more than eight times before it was approved for broadcasting. The sequels had to have a setting somewhere off schoolgrounds. Artists are actually already restricted.

Oh, well, at the end of the day, realistically speaking, it's not like we can change anything or pass a bill, anyway, as neither of us is a politician nor a lawmaker. Every country will always have its own rules. Debating will only lead to nowhere.

i totally agree to you that those kind of stuff shouldn't be taken away because everything will just be too boring and plain. i'm not against fight scenes or killing scenes i'm just saying that those scenes should be less detailed or overly done. again these are just opinions. i think your point was absolute and there are logic to your statements.

you are right debating over it will lead to nowhere. still, it's nice to be able to express our opinions and exchange thoughts about something. it's a pleasure to talk with you. thanks for the meaningful chat.
peace!

Klimat said:

Denniz said:
well.. this conversation is much better than before. there's no need to blow our top off just because someone's opinion gets into our nerves. you proved a very solid point there my friend. however we can't deny that there are still some possibilities that a show can affect a child. it's just like watching a horror movie. when a child have seen a horror movie, it's only normal for them to be scared and think that ghosts/monsters exists. another example of a show that can affect a person is porn/hentai (i know we're drifting away from the topic a little) in a way that it may turn a person lustful. so in my humble opinion, there are some shows that really has to be shown with less exaggeration and exposure.

some of those are proven, some are just opinion so i really hope we can understand and respect each other's way of thinking. thank's for the very interesting exchange of thoughts and cooling down your temper buddy. i'm looking forward to read your reply.

There are tons of stuff capable of affecting someone's mind out there. Potentially any info can. Evening news about suicide bomber killing some folks in Iraq once again, Abu Ghraib like shit or Anders Behring Breivik madness. A school history lesson about WW2 genocide. Does it mean we should ban news and history because it may hurt someone's feelings? Hells no! I know a lot of dirt is made in the name of children. Politics in Uganda are trying to adopt a law to go with a death penalty for being gay in Uganda. For children's sake. You know, those gays are everywhere making it looks like it's ok to join their ranks, children are watching. Lets ban 'en quickly! Check up Rachel Maddow's interview with David Bahati. Porn is another alike issue. I'm sorry, I don't want to sound aggressive, but "in a way that it may turn a person lustful" - that's bullshit. Those arguments are just infuriating for me. James Bond movies "may turn a person lustful" if you will. It's ok to blame almost every film as long as your sentence includes a magic word "may" in italics. You know what may turn a person lustful? Prude parents/whoever restricting everything at least a little sexual from you. Forbidden fruit is always tempting. Do you remember that Vatican sex scandal when priests were abusing children? What was the reason? Well, except for them being complete jerks. Celibate it was. Also I suggest you to check a pornography laws map, green for legal, yellow for legal with some restrictions, red for illegal. Look at the red countries, is it a coincidence those are mostly some damn totalitarian or/and zealot religious ones? China, North Korea, Cuba, Libya, Egypt, Belarus, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Oman etc. Green countries are also for some reason those democratic ones: 90% of Europe, USA, Canada etc. There is a reason for it.
As for me, I damn like Hellsing Ultimate/Rambo 4 stile violence in fiction. Franken Fran was a borderline stuff and I end up dropping it, but, I should tell, I did it for a plot reason, not for the gore. I know there is some overdone violence shit I won't even touch with a 10-foot pole, but that is not a reason to ban something, because banning a freedom of expression was, is and always will be a step towards totalitarianism. Free market will regulate thing out anyway, if something is too extream and disgusting, it won't be popular, will get a low score on MAL/IMDB/etc. hence will die away or go into a limited reservation naturally.
Also you can't keep children in a shell forever, that is harmful for them. Life is tough. And here is some good old Carlin for you.

hmmm... i don't know where to start in this since it's too long and i'm focusing on seijurou's point. well.. i have expressed all my opinion regarding this topic already so i think i'll just jump straight ahead to your point. if you're saying that my point is to remove all violence and x rated shows in the industry i think you misunderstood my point. again, i'm just saying that it should be "lessen" since it is just a show and making it realistic like the actual scenarios in real life is not necessary. i respect your taste and i have nothing against your favorite shows. i'm just expressing my thoughts and i don't think there's nothing wrong about it. same goes for you. thanks for your aggressive opinion i really see your point.

Den-kunSep 27, 2011 10:03 PM

Sep 26, 2011 2:36 AM

#102

Leonard93

Offline

Sep 2010

1425

you must NEVER, EVER press the enter key.
you must do everyting in your power to make the biggest wall of unreadable text in humanity.

Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines.

Sep 27, 2011 5:01 AM

#103

Klimat

Offline

Apr 2009

1190

Denniz said:
hmmm... i don't know where to start in this since it's too long and i'm focusing on seijurou's point. well.. i have expressed all my opinion regarding this topic already so i think i'll just jump straight ahead to your point. if you're saying that my point is to remove all violence and x rated shows in the industry i think you misunderstood my point. again, i'm just saying that it should be "lessen" since it is just a show and making it realistic like the actual scenarios in real life is not necessary. i respect your taste and i have nothing against your favorite shows. i'm just expressing my thoughts and i don't think there's nothing wrong about it. same goes for you. thanks for your aggressive opinion i really see your point.

Well, the thing is, I'm not sure if you can actually say if you have something against those shows I like or not because, well, according to your list you haven't seen at least one of those. You can't judge something you are not familiar with, right?
Also you've been pretty moderate on your statements recently so I'll try to hold myself too, but in your initial posts on this topic you were more harsh. You've commented those Higurashi and Elfen Lied clips as insane, immoral and sick, haven't you? I never watched Higurashi and I'm not a fan of Elfen Lied (I've rated it with 7, but that is mostly because it was one of my first anime shows, I doubt it would have got 7 if I had watched it recently, I was noobish and stupid back then).
Anyway, you've newer clarified your gore tolerance border any further. And it really differs from person to person. Like one day I've talked to my grandma about movies and discovered she only watched a horror film once and was terrified and not able to sleep for hours at night. Then I've discovered it was "Tremors" that I'm pretty familiar with. A comedy horror, not scary at all for me, pretty funny on the other hand. The bloodiest anime in your list I'm familiar with is "Baccano!", but it is in the PTW section and we can't discuss it really.
So I've decided to go on with some examples. Here is a Hellsing OVA AMV and a Rambo 4 clip. There are much more violent Hellsing AMVs out there but sadly they are super-spoilerish and I didn't want to spoil it too much just in case, so I've spend some time searching for a balanced AMV with no big revelations, yet still a good amount of blood. Rambo 4 clip is basically a final scene, but the plot is not too complex to begin with. Well, watch 'em on your own risk. Are they immoral and sick?

Sep 27, 2011 5:51 AM

#104

Kamui-Yui

Offline

Jul 2011

342

Seijurou said:

Denniz said:
well.. this conversation is much better than before. there's no need to blow our top off just because someone's opinion gets into our nerves. you proved a very solid point there my friend. however we can't deny that there are still some possibilities that a show can affect a child. it's just like watching a horror movie. when a child have seen a horror movie, it's only normal for them to be scared and think that ghosts/monsters exists. another example of a show that can affect a person is porn/hentai (i know we're drifting away from the topic a little) in a way that it may turn a person lustful. so in my humble opinion, there are some shows that really has to be shown with less exaggeration and exposure.

some of those are proven, some are just opinion so i really hope we can understand and respect each other's way of thinking. thank's for the very interesting exchange of thoughts and cooling down your temper buddy. i'm looking forward to read your reply.

No problem. I just thought a "change of color" would be nice. The last people I argued with were not as respectful or reasonable as you are, so I was kind of edgy, I guess.

You made a good point regarding horror movies scaring children, though they normally grow out of it, but I don't know about porn, since kids usually think it is disgusting. Again, like I said, I agree that television does affect them to some extent. Still, all of this warrants limiting access to minors, as the law already stands, but we shouldn't take away adults' joy just because of "possible" effects in case under-age individuals view these things. Use parental control. Block channels, if you want. Can you imagine what it would be like if all mature products were taken off the shelves? What's the difference between killing off ten or one hundred people in a show? Screw one, screw them all. There is no need to be over-protective. This is a tough world that those little boys and girls will have to deal with some day, and the sooner they learn about it, the better prepared they will be. Plus, they will always find a way to peek at what the grown-ups are doing.

However, even in 18+ media, censorship still exists. Take Scream for example. The first part of the motion picture was edited more than eight times before it was approved for broadcasting. The sequels had to have a setting somewhere off schoolgrounds. Artists are actually already restricted.

Oh, well, at the end of the day, realistically speaking, it's not like we can change anything or pass a bill, anyway, as neither of us is a politician nor a lawmaker. Every country will always have its own rules. Debating will only lead to nowhere.

Denniz said:

Seijurou said:

Denniz said:
well.. this conversation is much better than before. there's no need to blow our top off just because someone's opinion gets into our nerves. you proved a very solid point there my friend. however we can't deny that there are still some possibilities that a show can affect a child. it's just like watching a horror movie. when a child have seen a horror movie, it's only normal for them to be scared and think that ghosts/monsters exists. another example of a show that can affect a person is porn/hentai (i know we're drifting away from the topic a little) in a way that it may turn a person lustful. so in my humble opinion, there are some shows that really has to be shown with less exaggeration and exposure.

some of those are proven, some are just opinion so i really hope we can understand and respect each other's way of thinking. thank's for the very interesting exchange of thoughts and cooling down your temper buddy. i'm looking forward to read your reply.

No problem. I just thought a "change of color" would be nice. The last people I argued with were not as respectful or reasonable as you are, so I was kind of edgy, I guess.

You made a good point regarding horror movies scaring children, though they normally grow out of it, but I don't know about porn, since kids usually think it is disgusting. Again, like I said, I agree that television does affect them to some extent. Still, all of this warrants limiting access to minors, as the law already stands, but we shouldn't take away adults' joy just because of "possible" effects in case under-age individuals view these things. Use parental control. Block channels, if you want. Can you imagine what it would be like if all mature products were taken off the shelves? What's the difference between killing off ten or one hundred people in a show? Screw one, screw them all. There is no need to be over-protective. This is a tough world that those little boys and girls will have to deal with some day, and the sooner they learn about it, the better prepared they will be. Plus, they will always find a way to peek at what the grown-ups are doing.

However, even in 18+ media, censorship still exists. Take Scream for example. The first part of the motion picture was edited more than eight times before it was approved for broadcasting. The sequels had to have a setting somewhere off schoolgrounds. Artists are actually already restricted.

Oh, well, at the end of the day, realistically speaking, it's not like we can change anything or pass a bill, anyway, as neither of us is a politician nor a lawmaker. Every country will always have its own rules. Debating will only lead to nowhere.

i totally agree to you that those kind of stuff shouldn't be taken away because everything will just be too boring and plain. i'm not against fight scenes or killing scenes i'm just saying that those scenes should be less detailed or overly done. again these are just opinions. i think your point was absolute and there are logic to your statements.

you are right debating over it will lead to nowhere. still, it's nice to be able to express our opinions and exchange thoughts about something. it's a pleasure to talk with you. thanks for the meaningful chat.
peace!

Klimat said:

Denniz said:
well.. this conversation is much better than before. there's no need to blow our top off just because someone's opinion gets into our nerves. you proved a very solid point there my friend. however we can't deny that there are still some possibilities that a show can affect a child. it's just like watching a horror movie. when a child have seen a horror movie, it's only normal for them to be scared and think that ghosts/monsters exists. another example of a show that can affect a person is porn/hentai (i know we're drifting away from the topic a little) in a way that it may turn a person lustful. so in my humble opinion, there are some shows that really has to be shown with less exaggeration and exposure.

some of those are proven, some are just opinion so i really hope we can understand and respect each other's way of thinking. thank's for the very interesting exchange of thoughts and cooling down your temper buddy. i'm looking forward to read your reply.

There are tons of stuff capable of affecting someone's mind out there. Potentially any info can. Evening news about suicide bomber killing some folks in Iraq once again, Abu Ghraib like shit or Anders Behring Breivik madness. A school history lesson about WW2 genocide. Does it mean we should ban news and history because it may hurt someone's feelings? Hells no! I know a lot of dirt is made in the name of children. Politics in Uganda are trying to adopt a law to go with a death penalty for being gay in Uganda. For children's sake. You know, those gays are everywhere making it looks like it's ok to join their ranks, children are watching. Lets ban 'en quickly! Check up Rachel Maddow's interview with David Bahati. Porn is another alike issue. I'm sorry, I don't want to sound aggressive, but "in a way that it may turn a person lustful" - that's bullshit. Those arguments are just infuriating for me. James Bond movies "may turn a person lustful" if you will. It's ok to blame almost every film as long as your sentence includes a magic word "may" in italics. You know what may turn a person lustful? Prude parents/whoever restricting everything at least a little sexual from you. Forbidden fruit is always tempting. Do you remember that Vatican sex scandal when priests were abusing children? What was the reason? Well, except for them being complete jerks. Celibate it was. Also I suggest you to check a pornography laws map, green for legal, yellow for legal with some restrictions, red for illegal. Look at the red countries, is it a coincidence those are mostly some damn totalitarian or/and zealot religious ones? China, North Korea, Cuba, Libya, Egypt, Belarus, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Oman etc. Green countries are also for some reason those democratic ones: 90% of Europe, USA, Canada etc. There is a reason for it.
As for me, I damn like Hellsing Ultimate/Rambo 4 stile violence in fiction. Franken Fran was a borderline stuff and I end up dropping it, but, I should tell, I did it for a plot reason, not for the gore. I know there is some overdone violence shit I won't even touch with a 10-foot pole, but that is not a reason to ban something, because banning a freedom of expression was, is and always will be a step towards totalitarianism. Free market will regulate thing out anyway, if something is too extream and disgusting, it won't be popular, will get a low score on MAL/IMDB/etc. hence will die away or go into a limited reservation naturally.
Also you can't keep children in a shell forever, that is harmful for them. Life is tough. And here is some good old Carlin for you.

hmmm... i don't know where to start in this since it's too long and i'm focusing on seijurou's point. well.. i have expressed all my opinion regarding this topic already so i think i'll just jump straight ahead to your point. if you're saying that my point is to remove all violence and x rated shows in the industry i think you misunderstood my point. again, i'm just saying that it should be "lessen" since it is just a show and making it realistic like the actual scenarios in real life is not necessary. i respect your taste and i have nothing against your favorite shows. i'm just expressing my thoughts and i don't think there's nothing wrong about it. same goes for you. thanks for your aggressive opinion i really see your point.

Klimat said:

Denniz said:
hmmm... i don't know where to start in this since it's too long and i'm focusing on seijurou's point. well.. i have expressed all my opinion regarding this topic already so i think i'll just jump straight ahead to your point. if you're saying that my point is to remove all violence and x rated shows in the industry i think you misunderstood my point. again, i'm just saying that it should be "lessen" since it is just a show and making it realistic like the actual scenarios in real life is not necessary. i respect your taste and i have nothing against your favorite shows. i'm just expressing my thoughts and i don't think there's nothing wrong about it. same goes for you. thanks for your aggressive opinion i really see your point.

Well, the thing is, I'm not sure if you can actually say if you have something against those shows I like or not because, well, according to your list you haven't seen at least one of those. You can't judge something you are not familiar with, right?
Also you've been pretty moderate on your statements recently so I'll try to hold myself too, but in your initial posts on this topic you were more harsh. You've commented those Higurashi and Elfen Lied clips as insane, immoral and sick, haven't you? I never watched Higurashi and I'm not a fan of Elfen Lied (I've rated it with 7, but that is mostly because it was one of my first anime shows, I doubt it would have got 7 if I had watched it recently, I was noobish and stupid back then).
Anyway, you've newer clarified your gore tolerance border any further. And it really differs from person to person. Like one day I've talked to my grandma about movies and discovered she only watched a horror film once and was terrified and not able to sleep for hours at night. Then I've discovered it was "Tremors" that I'm pretty familiar with. A comedy horror, not scary at all for me, pretty funny on the other hand. The bloodiest anime in your list I'm familiar with is "Baccano!", but it is in the PTW section and we can't discuss it really.
So I've decided to go on with some examples. Here is a Hellsing OVA AMV and a Rambo 4 clip. There are much more violent Hellsing AMVs out there but sadly they are super-spoilerish and I didn't want to spoil it too much just in case, so I've spend some time searching for a balanced AMV with no big revelations, yet still a good amount of blood. Rambo 4 clip is basically a final scene, but the plot is not too complex to begin with. Well, watch 'em on your own risk. Are they immoral and sick?

wow... these guys are retarded
(For mods: cuz they don't even know how to put a gdDamn spoiler -.- don't ban me)

Leonard93 said:
you must NEVER, EVER press the enter key.
you must do everyting in your power to make the biggest wall of unreadable text in humanity.

lol, learn from leonard
he's much less of a retard
(For mods: cuz he didn't reply anything about the topic o.o don't ban me)

now, on to the topic. you know, i love it when (anime)kids die simply because It's not usually done on animes/movies
but i love it more when they're the ones that kill, cute and deadly at the same time(♥Elfen Lied♥)

b*tch please, they're hand-drawn. I don't see why people in their right mind would bother arguing about it and even go to such lengths as

Leonard93 said:
to make the biggest wall of unreadable text in humanity.

(For mods: god... hope i don't get banned a third time =.= it's not f**kin unusual to troll in forums) and i'm not even trollin atm ／人◕ ‿‿ ◕人＼

Kamui-YuiSep 27, 2011 5:59 AM

Sep 27, 2011 11:38 AM

#105

Klimat

Offline

Apr 2009

1190

Kamui-Yui
So I should be feeling trolled now, right? Because I'm not for I have no clue what the heck exactly are you facepalming about to begin with. And it's not like I care although.

Sep 27, 2011 12:59 PM

#106

Leonard93

Offline

Sep 2010

1425

Klimat said:
Kamui-Yui
So I should be feeling trolled now, right? Because I'm not for I have no clue what the heck exactly are you facepalming about to begin with. And it's not like I care although.

read my post.

Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines.

Sep 27, 2011 3:57 PM

#107

GodHimselfx100

Offline

Sep 2011

115

"TV doesnt make people violent and il kill you if you say otherwise."

The thing is you say its not necessary and thats false. The creator of the series wanted to convey the gore of the scene therefor its necessary.

Kids might see sex in real life so lets ban people having sex. See how unrealistic that is. Also kids over 10 are pretty "lustful" anyways. Sometimes peoples memory about that gets hazy when they get older.

As for the topic if its a random nameless character i dont care what happens to them be it rape, torture or death. I dont know them so i dont care. Its almost true of how i feel about real life as well.

If its a named character i much prefer a kid to die because adult main characters are a precious commodity in anime whereas kid main characters are a dime a dozen.

I very much hate how common it is for something bad happening to a kid being shown off camera when the same thing done to an adult in the same show would have been shown completely

I recently finished Now and Then, Here and There and the whole plot is basically hey look bad stuff is happening to kid that you dont care about and then it shifts to total pacifism in wartime is the only way.

Additionally, i found that truck scene posted earlier hilarious. The first comment is priceless too.

(placeholder sig)

Sep 27, 2011 9:08 PM

#108

bottle

Offline

Dec 2009

1591

There are people who kill little animals with knifes, draining their blood, removing skins etc. every day in the rural areas somewhere, some eat dogs whenever they like, or some prefer to eat squids moving & alive, and eating fish pouring sauce on them while they are breathing. What's the problem?
But there are always someones crying out brutality in the other side of the world.

No, they are all humans. I think feeling of brutality can be desensitized. The current cartoon or TV games may not be clear enough. But it's natural that people become worried as the digital world is getting more realistic.

Also, news are generally different from games and fictional stories. The chance of personal substitution into the characters in games or stories is higher. News need to reflect reality. Fictions got options.

Sep 27, 2011 9:21 PM

#109

PzykoSkillz

Offline

Dec 2010

519

I don't really care about seeing kids die in any sort of media. I know I've been desensitized if that's what you want to call it. I grew up watching Faces/Traces of Death. The more, the merrier to me.

Sep 27, 2011 9:33 PM

#110

Anime_Name

Offline

Sep 2010

4874

bottle said:
Also, news are generally different from games and fictional stories. The chance of personal substitution into the characters in games or stories is higher. News need to reflect reality. Fictions got options..

Generally most copycats are attempting to replicate real crimes they heard about via the news. Either to pay homage to the original criminal or try to camouflage their crime as being done by someone else. There is no evidence that shows entertainment influences crimes any more so than real crimes themselves. If there was such evidence then 1984 and book burning would be the right way to go.

Sep 27, 2011 9:51 PM

#111

Den-kun

Offline

Sep 2011

148

LOL i laughed big time when I saw the post of Kamui-Yui. Guess we got a little overboard by having a long conversation in a public thread. Our bad. sumimasen. Alright, for the reply to those who quoted my post I’ll just put spoilers so we won't disturb anybody :))

Den-kunSep 27, 2011 9:56 PM

Sep 27, 2011 10:58 PM

#112

bottle

Offline

Dec 2009

1591

Anime_Name said:

bottle said:
Also, news are generally different from games and fictional stories. The chance of personal substitution into the characters in games or stories is higher. News need to reflect reality. Fictions got options..

Generally most copycats are attempting to replicate real crimes they heard about via the news. Either to pay homage to the original criminal or try to camouflage their crime as being done by someone else. There is no evidence that shows entertainment influences crimes any more so than real crimes themselves. If there was such evidence then 1984 and book burning would be the right way to go.

There is no need for such evidence for media to learn self-regulation. People getting negative feeling is enough. Remember they are doing business with the general public. With a broad audience range, they need to do some market research before delivering sensitive contents from nudity to violence in unnecessary details, or propaganda against own country. Or else they risk losing contracts or facing suit cases.

With substitution, people will likely to have stronger emotional rebounds when things go wrong.

Sep 27, 2011 11:23 PM

#113

Anime_Name

Offline

Sep 2010

4874

People getting negative feelings is not the same as entertainment having a higher influence on crimes than a person's real life issues. Someone getting a negative feeling(whatever a negative feeling it may be) could be the clear intent of a story. Stephen King wants to make your feel scared, JK Rowling wants the reader to lust after Hermione. Entertainment goods are not doing business with the general public as most entrainment goods are broke down and relegated by age demographic, audience, and venue where said entertainment can be enjoyed.

A Hollywood movie is open to the public but the ratings and genre are used to tell the general public whose eyes are meant to view the film. Market research will only show that there are people who want to as much nudity, violence, or whatever else you are trying to be against as possible and there are people who don't want to see any of that depicted in a work of fiction. So long what is shown is within the bounds of the law there will be little fear about facing law suits(at least little fear in law suits that have any grounds *cough*Jack Thompson*cough*) and as long as what is made is profitable there will always be other companies willing to make contracts so that they can share in the spoils.

Personal substitution to relate to a character does not increase ones chances of committing crimes if that character commits a crime for sane people past the age of 6. There are crazies who are unable to differentiate reality from fiction but that is a mental issue that would exist regardless of what's on TV.

You are acting as if it is a foregone conclusion that people don't want to see the crap you don't want to see but that is clearly not the case because everything has market somewhere.

Sep 28, 2011 8:17 AM

#114

Evil_Mastermind

Offline

Jun 2010

842

Well, if it's bloody anime, I am totally fine, but I was really wtf like when British army killed little crying kid in Code Geass.

Tell the victims to kill eachother.

Sep 28, 2011 3:42 PM

#115

Seijurou

Offline

May 2011

471

Kamui-Yui said:

Seijurou said:

Denniz said:
well.. this conversation is much better than before. there's no need to blow our top off just because someone's opinion gets into our nerves. you proved a very solid point there my friend. however we can't deny that there are still some possibilities that a show can affect a child. it's just like watching a horror movie. when a child have seen a horror movie, it's only normal for them to be scared and think that ghosts/monsters exists. another example of a show that can affect a person is porn/hentai (i know we're drifting away from the topic a little) in a way that it may turn a person lustful. so in my humble opinion, there are some shows that really has to be shown with less exaggeration and exposure.

some of those are proven, some are just opinion so i really hope we can understand and respect each other's way of thinking. thank's for the very interesting exchange of thoughts and cooling down your temper buddy. i'm looking forward to read your reply.

No problem. I just thought a "change of color" would be nice. The last people I argued with were not as respectful or reasonable as you are, so I was kind of edgy, I guess.

You made a good point regarding horror movies scaring children, though they normally grow out of it, but I don't know about porn, since kids usually think it is disgusting. Again, like I said, I agree that television does affect them to some extent. Still, all of this warrants limiting access to minors, as the law already stands, but we shouldn't take away adults' joy just because of "possible" effects in case under-age individuals view these things. Use parental control. Block channels, if you want. Can you imagine what it would be like if all mature products were taken off the shelves? What's the difference between killing off ten or one hundred people in a show? Screw one, screw them all. There is no need to be over-protective. This is a tough world that those little boys and girls will have to deal with some day, and the sooner they learn about it, the better prepared they will be. Plus, they will always find a way to peek at what the grown-ups are doing.

However, even in 18+ media, censorship still exists. Take Scream for example. The first part of the motion picture was edited more than eight times before it was approved for broadcasting. The sequels had to have a setting somewhere off schoolgrounds. Artists are actually already restricted.

Oh, well, at the end of the day, realistically speaking, it's not like we can change anything or pass a bill, anyway, as neither of us is a politician nor a lawmaker. Every country will always have its own rules. Debating will only lead to nowhere.

Denniz said:

Seijurou said:

Denniz said:
well.. this conversation is much better than before. there's no need to blow our top off just because someone's opinion gets into our nerves. you proved a very solid point there my friend. however we can't deny that there are still some possibilities that a show can affect a child. it's just like watching a horror movie. when a child have seen a horror movie, it's only normal for them to be scared and think that ghosts/monsters exists. another example of a show that can affect a person is porn/hentai (i know we're drifting away from the topic a little) in a way that it may turn a person lustful. so in my humble opinion, there are some shows that really has to be shown with less exaggeration and exposure.

some of those are proven, some are just opinion so i really hope we can understand and respect each other's way of thinking. thank's for the very interesting exchange of thoughts and cooling down your temper buddy. i'm looking forward to read your reply.

No problem. I just thought a "change of color" would be nice. The last people I argued with were not as respectful or reasonable as you are, so I was kind of edgy, I guess.

You made a good point regarding horror movies scaring children, though they normally grow out of it, but I don't know about porn, since kids usually think it is disgusting. Again, like I said, I agree that television does affect them to some extent. Still, all of this warrants limiting access to minors, as the law already stands, but we shouldn't take away adults' joy just because of "possible" effects in case under-age individuals view these things. Use parental control. Block channels, if you want. Can you imagine what it would be like if all mature products were taken off the shelves? What's the difference between killing off ten or one hundred people in a show? Screw one, screw them all. There is no need to be over-protective. This is a tough world that those little boys and girls will have to deal with some day, and the sooner they learn about it, the better prepared they will be. Plus, they will always find a way to peek at what the grown-ups are doing.

However, even in 18+ media, censorship still exists. Take Scream for example. The first part of the motion picture was edited more than eight times before it was approved for broadcasting. The sequels had to have a setting somewhere off schoolgrounds. Artists are actually already restricted.

Oh, well, at the end of the day, realistically speaking, it's not like we can change anything or pass a bill, anyway, as neither of us is a politician nor a lawmaker. Every country will always have its own rules. Debating will only lead to nowhere.

i totally agree to you that those kind of stuff shouldn't be taken away because everything will just be too boring and plain. i'm not against fight scenes or killing scenes i'm just saying that those scenes should be less detailed or overly done. again these are just opinions. i think your point was absolute and there are logic to your statements.

you are right debating over it will lead to nowhere. still, it's nice to be able to express our opinions and exchange thoughts about something. it's a pleasure to talk with you. thanks for the meaningful chat.
peace!

Klimat said:

Denniz said:
well.. this conversation is much better than before. there's no need to blow our top off just because someone's opinion gets into our nerves. you proved a very solid point there my friend. however we can't deny that there are still some possibilities that a show can affect a child. it's just like watching a horror movie. when a child have seen a horror movie, it's only normal for them to be scared and think that ghosts/monsters exists. another example of a show that can affect a person is porn/hentai (i know we're drifting away from the topic a little) in a way that it may turn a person lustful. so in my humble opinion, there are some shows that really has to be shown with less exaggeration and exposure.

some of those are proven, some are just opinion so i really hope we can understand and respect each other's way of thinking. thank's for the very interesting exchange of thoughts and cooling down your temper buddy. i'm looking forward to read your reply.

There are tons of stuff capable of affecting someone's mind out there. Potentially any info can. Evening news about suicide bomber killing some folks in Iraq once again, Abu Ghraib like shit or Anders Behring Breivik madness. A school history lesson about WW2 genocide. Does it mean we should ban news and history because it may hurt someone's feelings? Hells no! I know a lot of dirt is made in the name of children. Politics in Uganda are trying to adopt a law to go with a death penalty for being gay in Uganda. For children's sake. You know, those gays are everywhere making it looks like it's ok to join their ranks, children are watching. Lets ban 'en quickly! Check up Rachel Maddow's interview with David Bahati. Porn is another alike issue. I'm sorry, I don't want to sound aggressive, but "in a way that it may turn a person lustful" - that's bullshit. Those arguments are just infuriating for me. James Bond movies "may turn a person lustful" if you will. It's ok to blame almost every film as long as your sentence includes a magic word "may" in italics. You know what may turn a person lustful? Prude parents/whoever restricting everything at least a little sexual from you. Forbidden fruit is always tempting. Do you remember that Vatican sex scandal when priests were abusing children? What was the reason? Well, except for them being complete jerks. Celibate it was. Also I suggest you to check a pornography laws map, green for legal, yellow for legal with some restrictions, red for illegal. Look at the red countries, is it a coincidence those are mostly some damn totalitarian or/and zealot religious ones? China, North Korea, Cuba, Libya, Egypt, Belarus, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Oman etc. Green countries are also for some reason those democratic ones: 90% of Europe, USA, Canada etc. There is a reason for it.
As for me, I damn like Hellsing Ultimate/Rambo 4 stile violence in fiction. Franken Fran was a borderline stuff and I end up dropping it, but, I should tell, I did it for a plot reason, not for the gore. I know there is some overdone violence shit I won't even touch with a 10-foot pole, but that is not a reason to ban something, because banning a freedom of expression was, is and always will be a step towards totalitarianism. Free market will regulate thing out anyway, if something is too extream and disgusting, it won't be popular, will get a low score on MAL/IMDB/etc. hence will die away or go into a limited reservation naturally.
Also you can't keep children in a shell forever, that is harmful for them. Life is tough. And here is some good old Carlin for you.

hmmm... i don't know where to start in this since it's too long and i'm focusing on seijurou's point. well.. i have expressed all my opinion regarding this topic already so i think i'll just jump straight ahead to your point. if you're saying that my point is to remove all violence and x rated shows in the industry i think you misunderstood my point. again, i'm just saying that it should be "lessen" since it is just a show and making it realistic like the actual scenarios in real life is not necessary. i respect your taste and i have nothing against your favorite shows. i'm just expressing my thoughts and i don't think there's nothing wrong about it. same goes for you. thanks for your aggressive opinion i really see your point.

Klimat said:

Denniz said:
hmmm... i don't know where to start in this since it's too long and i'm focusing on seijurou's point. well.. i have expressed all my opinion regarding this topic already so i think i'll just jump straight ahead to your point. if you're saying that my point is to remove all violence and x rated shows in the industry i think you misunderstood my point. again, i'm just saying that it should be "lessen" since it is just a show and making it realistic like the actual scenarios in real life is not necessary. i respect your taste and i have nothing against your favorite shows. i'm just expressing my thoughts and i don't think there's nothing wrong about it. same goes for you. thanks for your aggressive opinion i really see your point.

Well, the thing is, I'm not sure if you can actually say if you have something against those shows I like or not because, well, according to your list you haven't seen at least one of those. You can't judge something you are not familiar with, right?
Also you've been pretty moderate on your statements recently so I'll try to hold myself too, but in your initial posts on this topic you were more harsh. You've commented those Higurashi and Elfen Lied clips as insane, immoral and sick, haven't you? I never watched Higurashi and I'm not a fan of Elfen Lied (I've rated it with 7, but that is mostly because it was one of my first anime shows, I doubt it would have got 7 if I had watched it recently, I was noobish and stupid back then).
Anyway, you've newer clarified your gore tolerance border any further. And it really differs from person to person. Like one day I've talked to my grandma about movies and discovered she only watched a horror film once and was terrified and not able to sleep for hours at night. Then I've discovered it was "Tremors" that I'm pretty familiar with. A comedy horror, not scary at all for me, pretty funny on the other hand. The bloodiest anime in your list I'm familiar with is "Baccano!", but it is in the PTW section and we can't discuss it really.
So I've decided to go on with some examples. Here is a Hellsing OVA AMV and a Rambo 4 clip. There are much more violent Hellsing AMVs out there but sadly they are super-spoilerish and I didn't want to spoil it too much just in case, so I've spend some time searching for a balanced AMV with no big revelations, yet still a good amount of blood. Rambo 4 clip is basically a final scene, but the plot is not too complex to begin with. Well, watch 'em on your own risk. Are they immoral and sick?

wow... these guys are retarded
(For mods: cuz they don't even know how to put a gdDamn spoiler -.- don't ban me)

Leonard93 said:
you must NEVER, EVER press the enter key.
you must do everyting in your power to make the biggest wall of unreadable text in humanity.

lol, learn from leonard
he's much less of a retard
(For mods: cuz he didn't reply anything about the topic o.o don't ban me)

now, on to the topic. you know, i love it when (anime)kids die simply because It's not usually done on animes/movies
but i love it more when they're the ones that kill, cute and deadly at the same time(♥Elfen Lied♥)

b*tch please, they're hand-drawn. I don't see why people in their right mind would bother arguing about it and even go to such lengths as

Leonard93 said:
to make the biggest wall of unreadable text in humanity.

(For mods: god... hope i don't get banned a third time =.= it's not f**kin unusual to troll in forums) and i'm not even trollin atm ／人◕ ‿‿ ◕人＼

It is amusing and ironic to see someone call others "retarded" when he types like ones. Also, regarding your weak sarcasm about discussion length over "hand-drawn" topics, first of all, had you read it, our conversation extended to computer-generated and live-action gore. Learn to know your reason for barking before you spout your nonsense. Furthermore, Shakespear's works were, by your logic, mere ink on paper. The Titanic was a made-up story. Scholars rarely talk about vacuous things like "literature" and "cinema history," right? Fool. It is useless to argue that fiction is arbitrary, as the influence this huge genre incapacitates is too strong for your small brain to comprehend.

Go back to what an insect like you does best, flying and making a noise until someone, such as myself, squashes you. Simply Pathetic.

"Giving one's name to someone about to die is meaningless." - Hiko Seijuurou
"There are no miracles in this world; there are only accidents, inevitabilities, and what you are going to do. That is it." - Himura Yuu
"A sword is a weapon. Swordsmanship is learning how to kill. No pretty words you say will change that." - Hiko Seijuurou

Sep 28, 2011 7:41 PM

#116