The Sequel Theory
Jun 26, 2010 9:03 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
So I am sure most of you have come across the speculation or have picked up on it yourself, but there are several possible references to the original series and The End of Evangelion in the Rebuild movies which hint that the reimagining could in fact be a sequel.
Here is an updated version of an image that has been floating around the net for quite some time that displays such references and hints.
However, some of these things have been explained either in the movies or by fans.
For example, the red ocean is explained in 2.0 as an effect of the second impact, and the shot at the waters edge is a recurring one in many of Hideaki Anno's works. It seems this shot is there to throw off fans with a keen eye more than anything else.
The same can be said for the chalk outline. Some think that it is perhaps one of the mass production Eva's from The End of Evangelion, but the bottom line is nothing has been confirmed and this will probably never be addressed in the movies and will never be shown again. For all we know it could be a failed Eva test. Anno just seems to be trolling us.
As for the blood on the Moon, it is perhaps a trail left by dragging the body of the incomplete Unit 06 to the pit it was in at the end of 1.0, rather than being the blood spray from The End of Evangelion. The blood line is also significantly smaller than the one in The End.
However - Anno has been known to say that Evangelion is a story that repeats and Kaworu's words at the end of 2.0 definitely hint at Rebuild being a continuation. But the tetralogy is incomplete, for now we can express our thoughts, but can't really confirm anything from them. Nevertheless, I am curious as to what everyone else thinks. Do you support of the sequel theory or not? If you really don't know what to think then maybe this extremely informative thread on EvaGeeks will help you decide.
Modified by Touka, Sep 9, 2010 4:16 AM
Jun 29, 2010 6:02 PM
Jun 30, 2010 5:00 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Aha, I didn't offer my own opinion because I am one of the fans who is stuck in the middle. I think it would be interesting if it turns out Rebuild is a sequel, but I just think right now there isn't enough solid proof. Kaworu's words are really the only unexplainable parts and everything has either already been made clear or is just too vague. I think I will wait to see what 3.0 and 4.0 have in store for us before I make up my mind. However, knowing Anno and his crew he probably has no intention of resolving this issue and will probably leave the sequel theory open to debate. Although 2.0 was very unpredictable, so we'll just have to see how things go.
Also, surely all of the video games and such couldn't be recreations as Shinji rejected instrumentality rather than embracing it. He didn't have the power to do anything else after the Third Impact and was left in the post-apocalyptic wasteland with Asuka. I guess - as you mentioned - that is just one interpretation of the End of Eva though. Thats just the way I see it but I am sure there are many other fans that have a completely different view. That is what I love about Evangelion, the sheer volume of its content. It is annoying Anno doesn't offer any explanations at all, but its fun to debate such things.
Jul 4, 2010 12:55 PM
Jul 5, 2010 1:21 PM
Jul 6, 2010 11:45 AM
Jul 16, 2010 1:38 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
I highly doubt it's a sequel to the series at all. In EOE,
everyone is dead in the end, except for Asuka and Shinji. They are left to act as "Adam and Eve", to restore man kind.
It wouldn't make sense for Rebuild to be a sequel. Sure there may be some references, but it's a whole new story.
Modified by Pottymouth, Jul 16, 2010 2:08 PM
Jul 16, 2010 3:25 PM
Jul 16, 2010 3:46 PM
Jul 18, 2010 7:41 AM
Jul 19, 2010 8:10 AM
Jul 19, 2010 4:01 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
True enough, no one died or anything..it's just the problem of whether or not everyone who turned into soup had the willpower(?) to turn back into human form. Gendou's case I'm not particularly sure, but since he didn't get turned into soup/got his head chomped off instead of turning into soup I figured he'd be dead by then...but I find it a trivial matter since no death save for Shinji's would influence the reboot that much.
..and lol at the screwed-up anime Jesus. xDD It could have been his choice back then though..but he never said about what he wanted except for turning things back to normal. But then maybe the huge Rei in the sky misunderstood and initiated a time-screw instead? In any case, 3.0's not coming in a few years or so, might as well keep thinking. :3
@Kawa: I want to watch Higurashi!! If there's time-screw in it I'm definitely gonna watch it. But yeah, the time-screw theory is palatable for Evangelion..at least from my point of view. xDD
Jul 21, 2010 12:40 PM
Jan 9, 2012 6:50 PM
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Jan 27, 2012 12:38 AM
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Feb 23, 2012 7:22 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Months behind but I want to point this out about the cassette tape.
We see Shinji cycling through tracks 25 and 26 and back to 25 in the first movie, as I recall. Track 27 only comes into play after Mari parachutes onto the school, colliding with him. Now, the key detail is that after the crash landing, Mari retrieves the tape deck for Shinji.
Shinji notices the 27th track when he's in NERV. If i'm remembering right, he says something like "huh? that's strange" and seconds later Kaji strikes up a conversation with him.
My personal theory is that Mari landing on the school was deliberate. The story she fed her mystery caller was nonsense for Shinji's benefit. Her landing there was purely to drop off a tape with a 27th track which Kaji later picked up. Shinji's being used as a mule.
This is all dependent on my recollection being accurate, which it might not be. I'm rewatching the movies Friday though.
Modified by Craziel, Feb 23, 2012 7:27 AM
May 9, 2012 12:42 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Interesting theory, although for now I'm inclined to think that Rebuild is just a third version of Eva (after anime series and manga) and not something so complicated like this. But I won't discard such a possibility yet, as we're just halfway.
May 25, 2012 1:39 PM
Jul 30, 2012 8:13 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
I finally got around to watching Rebuild, and a friend presented this theory to me. I was skeptical at first, but I then sat down and rewatched both the series and movies. The impression I got of Rebuild on the second watch was kind of Battlestar Galactica - "All this has happened before, all of it will happen again."
In the original episodes 25 and 26, remember that Shinji is recreating the world. They're often discarded as nonsensical or too complex, not making enough sense, but I've always liked them. I think they're important to consider.
Shinji gets the option to create the world he wants. We see him construct and unravel several realities over the course of the final episode, including one in which he's a normal teenage boy mostly concerned with whether the new girl at school will have a nice ass. His mother is alive, his parents get along well, and presumably he does with them. He still has all the people he cares about, and things are generally happy. He realizes that this isn't what he wants either, and the reality around him shatters as he realizes that what he wants is to be who he already is and in the world he is in, he wants to save it, and stands up and declares "I want to continue living!"
In these circumstances, I would suggest that this is what Shinji experiences in the Ark during Third Impact. (Presumably Lilith) speaks into his mind as the Tree of Life forms, "As Rei is your heart she embodies your hopes and dreams. What is it you wish for?" The scene proceeds to the same vein as Episode 26, and his final response is important too: "Is it OK for me to be here?" That being the same resolution to the internal conflict.
Fuyutski notes that "the door to both the beginning and the end the end of the world is open at last."
Finally, as all souls are being drawn in to Lilith, there's a vocal montage that includes the phrase (Misato? sounds like) "There's no way we can just start all over again, you jerk." Though this is paired with a lot
The rendering of the planet may be irrelevant in EOE, but it appears that Lilith rises out of the south pole immediately following that sequence.
After that montage and song, a short bit of real video which ends with Rei and Shinji talking:
"So where is my dream?"
"It is a continuation of your reality"
"But where is my reality?"
"It is at the end of your dream."
I believe this is the point where the original episode 26 ends within the sequence. I doubt Rebuild was planned as such at the point this was made, but likely the concept was already conceived. Some of Lilith's final words hint that Shinji will recreate the world to succeed: "The power of imagination is the ability to create your own future and the power to create your own flow of time. But if people don't act of their own free will then nothing will change at all. So you must regain your own lost form by your own volition, even if it means your words will become lost or confused with the words of others. Anyone can return to human form as long as they are able to imagine themselves within their own heart."
I think it's important to consider that the original was the way Anno intended it to end, and that End was intended to expound on the original and offer more coherence, rather than discard the original ending.
Though I'm biased in that on the last watch I was looking for what might support the idea - so I have to worry about the possibility of a confirmation bias. Still, looking at it objectively this is how I always interpreted the ending. Not that Shinji and Asuka are left as Adam and Eve, but that Shinji did recreate a world where he and the ones he cared for could be happy - but also a world where he was himself. It's been noted in this very thread that it's a 'happier' world but also more devastated.
The Sea isn't full of blood, exactly, or not all blood. it's the Sea of LCL after End of Evangelion, as well as the blood of Lilith. Note in Episode 16, when Unit 01 is inside the Angel and Shinji is freaking out he says "what is this? LCL...it smells like blood." (or something to the effect) That's been addressed elsewhere of course.
It's all speculation, naturally - but I think it fits.
For your time-screw, use Second Impact as a focal point. It's not necessary to manipulate time, simply perception. People are 'reborn' as they were at Second Impact, and move forward from the events of Third Impact calling it Second Impact - because the two are one. The Angels present at Second Impact in Rebuild could be the mass production units, the scene has a lot of similarities to Third Impact in EOE on its own.
And for Shinji to be who he is, and his friends to be who they are, but to still be able to make the world a good place, the bad stuff has to happen too. They need to be Eva pilots, and for that the Angels need to attack, so Second Impact needs to have happened, and so forth.
Oct 19, 2013 11:00 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
I watched evangelion 3.0 or 3.33. Its nothing like the previews in 2.0/2.22 the whole thing is make you go "....... da fuck!". Apperently its been 14 years after the near third impact, not only that but shinji and eva unit 01 are in space. This is were it fets interesting, the curse of the eva makes the pilots not to age, rei 2 isn't in eva 01, shinji sync is 0.0000%. The organization called willie was created by kaji who dosent appear in the movie but was briefly mentioned and its goal is to stop nerv. The punishment givin to shinji for creating the third inpact was a choker that would blow up if he were to pilot an eva and if it went into "Awakened state or psuedo evolution".
Shinji finds the truth behind rei, what he did during trying to rescue rei 2 then kawarou tells shinji thay to save everything they need both the spear of cassius and longinous.
This is the most interesting part of the whole movie that relates to EoE
Lillith died, and Its face looks like rei. Their was something that happend during those 14 years. And a new adam, unit 13 and vessel mark 09. Are introduce. Shinji starts 4 th impact and kaworou died. The end is something that can relate to EoE once again shinji and asuka are In The destroyed world , but with rei 3. evangelion 4.44 will be the last movie and will show if its an actuall sequeo or not. But the tittle You can (not) repeat make me curious.
Dec 26, 2013 8:23 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
You guys gave me some great ideas, the Photos are incredible...I cant believe after watching the whole thing again I didn't notice that stuff.
Shinji broke the past reality and saved Rei 2!?!?!?!?! That alone is world shattering. Plus in 3.33 we dont see the old REI Where is SHE????????
There was a couple of defining moments that altered the natural timeline and allowed Nerv headquarters to be destroyed and Shinji the ability to take the form of Rei 2 out of the angel.
This continuity is odd because of the additional EVAs and the extended timeline. I was under the impression that Kaji was dead but hell he might be alive and Misato never broke down. We also have another Pilot and apparently huge amounts of resources made available by world governments to stop NERV from continuing its plan. Though Ikari still manages to alter Seeles plan.
I could go on forever talking about EVA but in terms of a sequel or not. Anno is unique when it comes to cash cows. He beats it to death angering old fans, giving them fan service that years later after ll the hate turns to love while making new fans.
For him to change Eva was a huge step...I dont think we are going the road of Shinji ending with a time loop or breaking some cycle...Anno is not the guy to do that. He tells a story and we blab about it for a decade then he will redo it again.
Im stuck in the middle of him expanding the universe...something like Wing wouldn't hurt, not to the full extent of Gundam but maybe a couple series that focus on what choice was made and the characters we never meet.
The 14 years is HUGE for the series...we could have a spin off off, more Manga OMG im excited already
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Plus , in the End of Evangelion movie , we dont get to see the real world after Shinji stops instrumentality (considering that asuka is dead and that the last scene doesnt take place in reality), So its up to the rebuild to construct the new world.
Plus , in the manga, when shinji rejects Instrumentality , nobody remembers what happened during the third impact afterwards , just like what happens in the rebuilds after shinji rejects instrumentality in EOE. (Maybe even the manga is a prequel or a sequel to the other two)