Did this show really need CGI?

Nov 15, 2023 1:18 AM

#2

Jai_akash

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May 2022

104

i actually enjoyed this show and yes the CGI bothered me also anyway pls give it a 7

Nov 15, 2023 1:52 AM

#3

CrunchyCrobat

Offline

Oct 2020

485

It really didn't need the cgi, there are older animes with similar action scenes that don't use cgi like this, I really wonder why mappa uses cgi so much

Nov 15, 2023 2:56 AM

#4

Animaticide

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Aug 2021

434

CrunchyCrobat said:
It really didn't need the cgi, there are older animes with similar action scenes that don't use cgi like this, I really wonder why mappa uses cgi so much

They're trying to streamline the animation process. Of course these early attempts looked pretty awful but they're slowly getting there. If they keep that pace, I'm sure it will become near indistinguishable within a year from now, judging by their latest production release

Nov 15, 2023 3:06 AM

#5

CrunchyCrobat

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Oct 2020

485

Animaticide said:

CrunchyCrobat said:
It really didn't need the cgi, there are older animes with similar action scenes that don't use cgi like this, I really wonder why mappa uses cgi so much

They're trying to streamline the animation process. Of course these early attempts looked pretty awful but they're slowly getting there. If they keep that pace, I'm sure it will become near indistinguishable within a year from now, judging by their latest production release

Idk man, when I watched the final episode of aot, the cgi still looked quite weird, don't think even now a year would be enough for it to be indistinguishable in the middle of 2d animation

Nov 15, 2023 3:17 AM

#6

deg

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Jan 2009

92509

cgi is use in any anime to speed up production to meet tight deadlines that is common today

Nov 15, 2023 3:23 AM

#7

Animaticide

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Aug 2021

434

CrunchyCrobat said:

Animaticide said:

They're trying to streamline the animation process. Of course these early attempts looked pretty awful but they're slowly getting there. If they keep that pace, I'm sure it will become near indistinguishable within a year from now, judging by their latest production release

Idk man, when I watched the final episode of aot, the cgi still looked quite weird, don't think even now a year would be enough for it to be indistinguishable in the middle of 2d animation

I did notice a few shots that looked pretty wonky, even when compared to others shown in the earlier Mappa seasons, but I was surprised at how a few others blended with the drawing style almost perfectly. Unfortunately for them, a dead giveaway was how unrefined their hand drawn shots tends to look, which makes the perfect, always on-model CGI ones stick like a sore thumb and vice-versa (what I mean is that 3D models will always look perfect whereas drawings will have imperfections like offset perspectives, so stitching mixed techniques shots in editing one after the other makes both stick out way more than they would on their own).

But if they get their act together and learn to properly implement style-transfer AI models into their pipeline to add those imperfections back into the 3D (which is super easy now, judging from my own experiments with the tech), they will be able to deliver satisfying results in no time. I am pretty sure that method would end up being even less time consuming than whatever render process they go through now, but oh well...

Nov 15, 2023 3:27 AM

#8

CrunchyCrobat

Offline

Oct 2020

485

Animaticide said:

CrunchyCrobat said:

Idk man, when I watched the final episode of aot, the cgi still looked quite weird, don't think even now a year would be enough for it to be indistinguishable in the middle of 2d animation

I did notice a few shots that looked pretty wonky, even when compared to others shown in the earlier Mappa seasons, but I was surprised at how a few others blended with the drawing style almost perfectly. Unfortunately for them, a dead giveaway was how unrefined their hand drawn shots tends to look, which makes the perfect, always on-model CGI ones stick like a sore thumb and vice-versa (what I mean is that 3D models will always look perfect whereas drawings will have imperfections like offset perspectives, so stitching mixed techniques shots in editing one after the other makes both stick out way more than they would on their own).

But if they get their act together and learn to properly implement style-transfer AI models into their pipeline to add those imperfections back into the 3D (which is super easy now, judging from my own experiments with the tech), they will be able to deliver satisfying results in no time. I am pretty sure that method would end up being even less time consuming than whatever render process they go through now, but oh well...

If they focus more on one anime at a time, instead of pumping out so many, it could all be so much better, but alas, mappa won't even recognize that there's a problem

Nov 15, 2023 3:37 AM

#9

Animaticide

Offline

Aug 2021

434

CrunchyCrobat said:

Animaticide said:

I did notice a few shots that looked pretty wonky, even when compared to others shown in the earlier Mappa seasons, but I was surprised at how a few others blended with the drawing style almost perfectly. Unfortunately for them, a dead giveaway was how unrefined their hand drawn shots tends to look, which makes the perfect, always on-model CGI ones stick like a sore thumb and vice-versa (what I mean is that 3D models will always look perfect whereas drawings will have imperfections like offset perspectives, so stitching mixed techniques shots in editing one after the other makes both stick out way more than they would on their own).

But if they get their act together and learn to properly implement style-transfer AI models into their pipeline to add those imperfections back into the 3D (which is super easy now, judging from my own experiments with the tech), they will be able to deliver satisfying results in no time. I am pretty sure that method would end up being even less time consuming than whatever render process they go through now, but oh well...

If they focus more on one anime at a time, instead of pumping out so many, it could all be so much better, but alas, mappa won't even recognize that there's a problem

Well, that's on the viewers. If this business model is making them money, they won't stop, and money comes from viewership. It's not a bad thing on it's own, but they haven't expanded operations properly in terms of staffing which shows from time to time (they could handle ANY amount of shows in ANY amount of time they wanted IF they properly allocated the necessary human resources, but alas, here we are).

They are sneakily becoming the Amazon of anime, both in terms of revenue and worker exploitation. We'll see if it works out for them, but unless Japan as a whole undergoes a major workers' rights revolution and starts unionizing, I believe this will go on until it crashes, somehow.

Nov 15, 2023 3:47 AM

#10

CrunchiBox

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Jan 2020

14

yes it was unnecessary, but does it make the show actually worse? not in my opinion

Nov 15, 2023 5:31 AM

#11

RudeRedis

Offline

Jan 2020

415

Anime production is hectic in general, and, therefore, they sometimes have to take shortcuts when it’s better to avoid them, I guess.

Nov 15, 2023 5:36 AM

#12

RudeRedis

Offline

Jan 2020

415

CrunchyCrobat said:
It really didn't need the cgi, there are older animes with similar action scenes that don't use cgi like this, I really wonder why mappa uses cgi so much

Because MAPPA’s working conditions are already horrible enough (the pay doesn’t correspond to the amount of work + the studio itself is pretty damn ambitious), so by replacing hand-drawn frames with CGI they’re “taking care” of their employees so that they won’t die from prostration.

Chill now, I’m joking.

No, I’m not.

Nov 15, 2023 1:11 PM

#13

Sagepool

Offline

Jun 2021

648

CrunchyCrobat said:

Animaticide said:

They're trying to streamline the animation process. Of course these early attempts looked pretty awful but they're slowly getting there. If they keep that pace, I'm sure it will become near indistinguishable within a year from now, judging by their latest production release

Idk man, when I watched the final episode of aot, the cgi still looked quite weird, don't think even now a year would be enough for it to be indistinguishable in the middle of 2d animation

Ya I watched the final episode too and the cgi definitely took me out of the story at times. I think it had some parts where it was amazing, but some parts were just like watching action figures fight. I think we still 5 years out before Mappa or other studios can make cgi fluid enough to not be noticed. Cause Bones, Orange, David Production, and Mappa I would say have the best cgi right now

Nov 15, 2023 4:37 PM

#14

ciiviic

Offline

Mar 2021

294

cgi doesn't change anything dramatically for this show, the enjoyment is still there, cgi or not, as it's the story and characters that carry this, not the visuals

Nov 15, 2023 6:34 PM

#15

Sagepool

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Jun 2021

648

ciiviic said:
cgi doesn't change anything dramatically for this show, the enjoyment is still there, cgi or not, as it's the story and characters that carry this, not the visuals

See I agree that the story and characters are great, but it’s undeniable that some distracting animation plays a factor

Nov 15, 2023 7:36 PM

#16

kratos960203

Offline

May 2019

264

Sagepool said:
I know this show isn’t brand new or anything, but I’m almost done watching it and I’m just wondering why. There are scenes where the two main characters are flying and its not 3d cgi. Plus scenes where they are 3d cgi at like the dinner table. It seems so all over the place of when the 3d cgi appears. I assume others had similar thoughts, but I just wanted to ask and see if it really effected anyone else. Cause so far the show is a 7 for me. But this could bring it to a 6 if it keeps up

mappa teams were practicing CGI that's why

Nov 15, 2023 7:36 PM

#17

kratos960203

Offline

May 2019

264

Sagepool said:
I know this show isn’t brand new or anything, but I’m almost done watching it and I’m just wondering why. There are scenes where the two main characters are flying and its not 3d cgi. Plus scenes where they are 3d cgi at like the dinner table. It seems so all over the place of when the 3d cgi appears. I assume others had similar thoughts, but I just wanted to ask and see if it really effected anyone else. Cause so far the show is a 7 for me. But this could bring it to a 6 if it keeps up

mappa teams were practicing CGI that's why

Nov 15, 2023 8:01 PM

#18

Sagepool

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Jun 2021

648

kratos960203 said:

Sagepool said:
I know this show isn’t brand new or anything, but I’m almost done watching it and I’m just wondering why. There are scenes where the two main characters are flying and its not 3d cgi. Plus scenes where they are 3d cgi at like the dinner table. It seems so all over the place of when the 3d cgi appears. I assume others had similar thoughts, but I just wanted to ask and see if it really effected anyone else. Cause so far the show is a 7 for me. But this could bring it to a 6 if it keeps up

mappa teams were practicing CGI that's why

I know studios need to practice, but whey not practice on not high profile shows? Instead they take large risks with strong IPs that can ruin enjoyment

Nov 15, 2023 8:09 PM

#19

kratos960203

Offline

May 2019

264

Sagepool said:

kratos960203 said:

mappa teams were practicing CGI that's why

I know studios need to practice, but whey not practice on not high profile shows? Instead they take large risks with strong IPs that can ruin enjoyment

I mean when mappa was newly established that's when they were practicing because they knew chi gonna be crucial in upcoming years and as for high profile chi animators didn't get time if they got required time they won't have to use CGI. You can see time requirements in Shangri la frontier where studio got enough time to animate and now that anime has great animation and no a single CGI monster

Nov 15, 2023 9:01 PM

#20

CrunchyCrobat

Offline

Oct 2020

485

Sagepool said:

CrunchyCrobat said:

Idk man, when I watched the final episode of aot, the cgi still looked quite weird, don't think even now a year would be enough for it to be indistinguishable in the middle of 2d animation

Ya I watched the final episode too and the cgi definitely took me out of the story at times. I think it had some parts where it was amazing, but some parts were just like watching action figures fight. I think we still 5 years out before Mappa or other studios can make cgi fluid enough to not be noticed. Cause Bones, Orange, David Production, and Mappa I would say have the best cgi right now

Bones is just great overall

Orange, I have only watched Trigun stampede, and man that looked weird, it was so bright and colorful compared to how dark of a theme they were going with, all it felt like had was coolness factor

Nov 15, 2023 9:04 PM

#21

Sagepool

Offline

Jun 2021

648

CrunchyCrobat said:

Sagepool said:

Ya I watched the final episode too and the cgi definitely took me out of the story at times. I think it had some parts where it was amazing, but some parts were just like watching action figures fight. I think we still 5 years out before Mappa or other studios can make cgi fluid enough to not be noticed. Cause Bones, Orange, David Production, and Mappa I would say have the best cgi right now

Bones is just great overall

Orange, I have only watched Trigun stampede, and man that looked weird, it was so bright and colorful compared to how dark of a theme they were going with, all it felt like had was coolness factor

See thats the thing as of right now CGI has only been able to make specific types of shows. Anytime they tackle dark themes it looks bad. Maybe its the way shadows and effects look on cgi idk. But Bones has cgi all over their stuff and I never notice

Nov 15, 2023 9:07 PM

#22

CrunchyCrobat

Offline

Oct 2020

485

Sagepool said:

CrunchyCrobat said:

Bones is just great overall

Orange, I have only watched Trigun stampede, and man that looked weird, it was so bright and colorful compared to how dark of a theme they were going with, all it felt like had was coolness factor

See thats the thing as of right now CGI has only been able to make specific types of shows. Anytime they tackle dark themes it looks bad. Maybe its the way shadows and effects look on cgi idk. But Bones has cgi all over their stuff and I never notice

Wait really? I thought bones did full non cg animation, damn they're good to be able to fool me like that

Nov 16, 2023 1:25 AM

#23

Sagepool

Offline

Jun 2021

648

CrunchyCrobat said:

Sagepool said:

See thats the thing as of right now CGI has only been able to make specific types of shows. Anytime they tackle dark themes it looks bad. Maybe its the way shadows and effects look on cgi idk. But Bones has cgi all over their stuff and I never notice

Wait really? I thought bones did full non cg animation, damn they're good to be able to fool me like that

Ya if you watch My Hero carefully there is cgi, Mob Psycho has none though which is nice

Nov 16, 2023 7:09 AM

#24

ecksdee58

Offline

Jun 2021

149

Sagepool said:
I know this show isn’t brand new or anything, but I’m almost done watching it and I’m just wondering why. There are scenes where the two main characters are flying and its not 3d cgi. Plus scenes where they are 3d cgi at like the dinner table. It seems so all over the place of when the 3d cgi appears. I assume others had similar thoughts, but I just wanted to ask and see if it really effected anyone else. Cause so far the show is a 7 for me. But this could bring it to a 6 if it keeps up

i think it's mostly mappa experimenting trying to figure out cgi. tbh it's not their best work but it doesn't matter since the story is so great

Nov 16, 2023 9:39 AM

#25

ciiviic

Offline

Mar 2021

294

Sagepool said:

ciiviic said:
cgi doesn't change anything dramatically for this show, the enjoyment is still there, cgi or not, as it's the story and characters that carry this, not the visuals

See I agree that the story and characters are great, but it’s undeniable that some distracting animation plays a factor

where cgi distracts someone's enjoyment is different to everyone and an opinion so I can't really change that yeah, but I understand it: for example attack on titan, I can't take the moments where it's a huge walking 3d doll that seriously

Nov 18, 2023 1:14 AM

#26

MrBoomTop10Anime

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Jul 2023

270

Would've been a pain in the ass to animate the transformation stuff without cgi, didn't particularly bother me personally

Nov 27, 2023 3:48 AM

#27

Throwingcrabs

Offline

Nov 2021

128

CrunchyCrobat said:
It really didn't need the cgi, there are older animes with similar action scenes that don't use cgi like this, I really wonder why mappa uses cgi so much

you're talking as if it's as easy as cgi

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