Attack on Titan
Fans who read the manga, Do want a anime original ending or a fleshed out version of the manga ending
| Do you think doing an Aoe at this point may ruin the series ? |
Ayanokiyo768Nov 12, 2022 7:27 AM
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Averageenjoyer12 said: GreyratAnimelist said: Aoe will not happen for sure, so this question is useless. Why? I have seen many multiple timeline theories connecting the manga and anime. How can you be so sure? The adaptation of chapter 123 into anime is a solid proof that AOE is not possible now. |
Averageenjoyer12 said: First of all, atleast use a spoiler tag since this is an anime only forum.Isayama did not show or mention what eren saw at the medal ceremony so far. So I think it's possible to change the ending by connecting manga timeline to the anime time line. "Isayama didn't show what Eren saw at the medal ceremony so far" Did you skip last epi of s3p2? It was literally shown that he had seen glimpses of his father's memories through Historia up untill where he convinced his father to steal the FT so that he could execute his secret plan. Would you mind explaining about how exactly is it possible to change the end by the manga timeline being connected to the anime timeline? Fyi Mappa had literally followed the manga timeline in s4 both parts without any additions or changes. Averageenjoyer12 said: Lmao, what bad dialogues? Do you even know the context/meaning behind them? Armin only said that to comfort Eren and to get closer to him and thanked him for doing what he thought was best for their sake while having them at the back of his mind. Armin was his closet childhood friend and deep down he knew that Eren was forced to do all of this due to the situation around."Thank you for becoming a mass murder for our sake eren, I won't let this mistake.." Bad dialogues. Averageenjoyer12 said: How exactly doesn't it make sense or feels forced? And fyi Eren's death by Mikasa's hands was literally foreshadowed in ch 1 of the manga. It was even shown in one of the eds in the anime/ova.Mikasa killing eren kinda didn't make sense and feels forced. Averageenjoyer12 said: It makes perfect sense and I don't mind explaining the relation between Ymir/king Fritz and Ymir/Mikasa to you but its such a damn long explanation which would take a lot of time and isn't possible to explain all of that here in this thread. I can tell you one thing that it has been foreshadowed right from the beginning of the story and has been established ever since.And I don't understand the parallel between eren mika and fritz ymir relation ship. I've seen lot of explanations on net but all of them feels forced for me if I look back at the story retrospectively. So, I'll suggest you to reread or I can share the best analysis I have ever seen about this topic with you, if you are interested. |
dk107_Nov 12, 2022 10:18 AM
dark_knight107 said: "Isayama didn't show what Eren saw at the medal ceremony so far" Did you skip last epi of s3p2? It was literally shown that he had seen glimpses of his father's memories through Historia up untill where he convinced his father to steal the FT so that he could execute his secret plan. Isayama didn't show what eren saw during the medal ceremony. He only said eren saw the future. He didn't show or said through dialogue what are all fragments of future eren saw until the final chap. Am specifically talking about alliance killing eren. dark_knight107 said: Lmao, what bad dialogues? Do you even know the context/meaning behind them? Armin only said that to comfort Eren and to get closer to him and thanked him for doing what he thought was best for their sake while having them at the back of his mind. Armin was his closet childhood friend and deep down he knew that Eren was forced to do all of this due to the situation around. Let's take death note as an example. Assume light's father, mother, sister and detectives ganged up and red-handed light in the end. light's father or sister comes says this to comfort light "Thank you for becoming a mass murderer to reduce crime rate/purify our world light, we won't let this error go waste" And then killed him in end. How does this ending and dialogue sound to you? dark_knight107 said: How exactly doesn't it make sense or feels forced? And fyi Eren's death by Mikasa's hands was literally foreshadowed in ch 1 of the manga. It was even shown in one of the eds in the anime/ova. dark_knight107 said: he convinced his father to steal the FT so that he could execute his secret plan Foreshadowing doesn't make it good. mikasa literally started killing yeagerists their own people to stop eren. Why are they acting so desperate to kill eren? Killing him won't make them heroes. Why are they so desperate to save the outside world first off all after the declaration of war on paradise? If eren want to portray them as heroes he could have did it in many other ways. Like kidnaping willy tyber and made armin and mikasa save him from eren. If he done this tybur will also start to understand the island devils And later peace talk. Genocide was unnecessary. First as a founding Titan holder eren did't even try to talk with the outside world and try to prove them that they are not bad guys, Your perception about us is wrong. After erens death the remaining people in the outside world will suffer from hunger, poverty, disease, lack of resources to build shelter and medicines..etc. paradis doesn't have that much resources to provide the outside world. They have no choice but to relay on paradis But when they come to Paradis how do you think the paradis people will treat them. They will treat them just as how marley treated eldians. This may also lead to assassination attempts on historia, armin and conspiracy, schemes to conqure paradis.the outside world will definitely try to get into paradise due to lack of resources. So the whole point of eren trying make the alliance look as heroes is meaningless. He should have done it without killing innocent peoples. Using time concepts to defend eren's action is what feels forced. dark_knight107 said: So, I'll suggest you to reread or I can share the best analysis I have ever seen about this topic with you, if you are interested. Share it, I'm Interested |
Averageenjoyer12Nov 12, 2022 10:04 PM
Averageenjoyer12 said: It was shown up untill where he convinces Grisha to steal the FT from Frieda and hands it over to him. And not the entire fragment needed to be shown separately to us or it might have been shown fully to Eren by his future self. Zeke had even explained how he could have shown bits of the memories via the AT's future memories power to Grisha in order to show what he wanted to show him.Isayama didn't show what eren saw during the medal ceremony. He only said eren saw the future. He didn't show or said through dialogue what are all fragments of future eren saw until the final chap. Am specifically talking about alliance killing eren. In short, he had only seen up untill he motivates his father in the chapel, that's it.The same reason for which he had cried in a weird way after Sasha's death cause he had lost one of his comrades and had seen glimpses of her death in the medal ceremony. Also, he himself had admitted that the FT's power had taken a toll on his mind and had jumbled up his thoughts due to all the memories which he had received and shown. The alliance killing Eren was all planned and allowed by Eren himself. He had given them a chance to come and stop him. He very well knew that the alliance wouldn't keep quiet and would definitely come for him anyways after killing those fascist Floch and the yeagerists.That is the sole reason as to why he didn't strip Armin and the Marley warriors of their titan shifter powers cause deep down he knew that he would be stopped by his friends anyways before he completes the rumbling and knew what he was doing was morally wrong. Averageenjoyer12 said: Why are you bringing DN here? Light didn't do any of that for his family/friend's sake instead to satisfy his inner god complex feeling and because he thought that he needed to use his newly received power for the benefit of the society. But, he wasn't forced to do all of that due to the situation and did it on his own accord/will. There was no need to for anyone to thank Light for his evil selfish motives.Let's take death note as an example. Assume light's father, mother, sister and detectives ganged up and red-handed light in the end. light's father or sister comes says this to comfort light "Thank you for becoming a mass murderer to reduce crime rate/purify our world light, we won't let this error go waste" And then killed him in end. How does this ending and dialogue sound to you? And, even as a hypothetical situation this isn't possible considering how much Light had wanted to keep his motives and his DN a secret from everyone. Plus his father was already dead and his sister was also kidnapped due to his mistakes.They themselves never knew and had no chance of finding out that their own family member was Kira all along. Comparing Eren and Light is futile since both are completely different characters with different personalities and goals.Eren never had a god-like superiority complex or wanted to punish the criminals for the sake of upholding justice like Light.Nor did he kill any of his close/loved ones in the process.The only similarity between them is how well written they are and how much of a master mind they had become. I know that the dialogue looks a bit cringe and weird and if I am not wrong, then Isayama himself had said that he regretted writing this in a confusing way and he knew it might seem out of context. But still he admitted that the fact doesn't change that it was done by Armin only as a gesture of thanking him. He never thanked him for committing mass murder, but for doing what he thought was best for their sake and survival.Hopefully the anime will fix this dialogue to clear up any confusion. Averageenjoyer12 said: How exactly doesn't foreshadowing make it good, when it was already hinted right from the start of the manga that she will be the one to bring down Eren? It was even shown in one of the EDs on th anime/ova. It was also shown in the Lost Girls manga via a convo between Grisha and Mikasa and also in chapter 133 of the last arc.Foreshadowing doesn't make it good. mikasa literally started killing yeagerists their own people to stop eren. Averageenjoyer12 said: Why are they acting so desperate to kill eren? Killing him won't make them heroes.Why are they so desperate to save the outside world first off all after the declaration of war on paradise? So they should just sit back and relax while Floch and those yeagerists do as they please and establish a fascist oppression filled rule in Paradis and kill anyone who tries to oppose them? Averageenjoyer12 said: If eren want to portray them as heroes he could have did it in many other ways. They are not trying to stop Eren just because they are craving to be called heroes ffs. They are only doing it to save all the innocent harmless eldians living beyond the walls so that they don't get caught up in the titan march as they all have nothing to do with the whole Eldia-Marley conflict. The alliance is also doing it since Eren is their ally and they all know that what he is doing is wrong morally. That is literally the point for which the alliance was formed as it represents that part of humanity who are against unprecedented mass murder/genocide. Plus it also violates their Scouts/Survey Corps ethics and morals, if they don't act for the benefit of humanity. Eren never had any sort of real intention to paint them as heroes in the world's eyes. He very well knew that if they come and stop him together as a whole unit, they will naturally be seen as saviours of humanity anyways who helped to stop the rumbling. Averageenjoyer12 said: Lmao, how the hell can he kidnap Willy right from under the Marleyan military's noses and why would he even do that? Willy Tybur himself had declared war on Paradis, backed up Magath and the others military officials. Kidnapping him or taking him as hostage wouldn't have made any sense and instead would have the matters worse and would have tarnished the Island's and Paradisian's image even more than it was before. Plus do you really think that Marley would have kept quiet about this? They would definitely have launched a heavy attack on Paradis using Willy as an excuse and would have again painted the island eldians as a global threat and as devils who deserve to get extinct.Like kidnaping willy tyber and made armin and mikasa save him from eren. If he done this tybur will also start understand the island devils And later peace talk. Tybur wouldn't sympathize with them/understand them and how are you so sure that he would do that? If he actually wanted to do that, why would he have declared a war on them in the first place? He only cared about power and about securing a higher position among the top dogs/higher ups, that's it. Go reread his entire convo with Magath in the Marley arc and you will get to know what I mean. Averageenjoyer12 said: "Genocide was unnecessary" Hate it or like it, it was the only way of protecting his friends and Paradis from getting bombed by the outside world due to Marley and Willy's brain washed military propaganda. I don't see any other solution. The 50 yr plan and Zeke's plan were just out of the question and also due to their flaws.Genocide was unnecessary. First as a founding Titan holder eren did't even try to talk with the outside world and try to prove them that they are not bad guys, Your perception about us is wrong. The FT's power only enables its user to communicate with Eldians/subjects of Ymir as they all are connected to each other and to the Founder via paths. Just like how Eren had addressed every subject during his speech in paths. So, how the hell would he communicate with the outside world by any means when it impossible for the FT to do that? and do you actually believe that anybody would believe him after years of brainwashing by Marley in the world's eyes in order to paint them as devils who deserve to get killed? Averageenjoyer12 said: All of this is just your imaginary interpretation. And, what makes you think that the remaining population would come to Paradis anyway and for what reason? Eren has no obligation to think about the outside world's welfare/sake when they themselves hated him and his race for something which was committed by their ancestors.After erens death remaining people in the outside world will suffer from hunger, poverty, disease, lack of resources to build shelter and medicines..etc. paradis doesn't have that much resources to provide the outside world. They have no choice but to relay on paradis But when they come to Paradis how do you think the paradis people will treat them. They will treat them just as how marley treated eldians. This may also lead to assassination attempts on historia, armin and conspiracy, schemes to conqure paradis.the outside world will definitely try to get into paradise due to lack of resources. Averageenjoyer12 said: How exactly should he have done that without killing innocents? Its just their misfortune and luck that they got dragged into the rumbling. But, that is exactly as to why the alliance was formed, in order to prevent thahappening? And as much as I hate to admit this, genocide was the only sensible option for Eren to save everything dear to him.So the whole point of eren trying make the alliance look as heroes is meaningless. He should have done it without killing innocent peoples. Using time concepts to defend eren's action is what feels forced. What time concepts? There isn't any time travel in AoT and Eren isn't a time traveller or some immortal demigod who is going to stick around as Eldia's protector for eternity and who can travel back in time or across dimensions to prevent events from happening or to go into the inevitable future to change anything. Ntm, his spell was running out and he didn't have much time to live anyways. He was running out of options as well. Averageenjoyer12 said: Here you go:Share it, I'm Interested These are the greatest analysis I have ever read and they helped me to understand even more, when I had done an AoT reread. Do follow shash and ymir if you liked these or if you have a twitter handle for more amazing analysis related content. https://mobile.twitter.com/cactuzzshash/status/1490425750507470853 https://mobile.twitter.com/lovelyYmir/status/1491763549219266566 https://mobile.twitter.com/cactuzzshash/status/1459291470985367559 https://mobile.twitter.com/cactuzzshash/status/1419327763153137671 |
dk107_Nov 12, 2022 11:20 PM
dark_knight107 said: Averageenjoyer12 said: All of this is just your imaginary interpretation. And, what makes you think that the remaining population would come to Paradis anyway and for what reason? Eren has no obligation to think about the outside world's welfare/sake when they themselves hated him and his race for something which was committed by their ancestors.After erens death remaining people in the outside world will suffer from hunger, poverty, disease, lack of resources to build shelter and medicines..etc. paradis doesn't have that much resources to provide the outside world. They have no choice but to relay on paradis But when they come to Paradis how do you think the paradis people will treat them. They will treat them just as how marley treated eldians. This may also lead to assassination attempts on historia, armin and conspiracy, schemes to conqure paradis.the outside world will definitely try to get into paradise due to lack of resources.  How can you be so sure they won't come to paradise? they definitely don't have enough food or resources to survive after the rumbling. |
Averageenjoyer12Nov 12, 2022 11:33 PM
Averageenjoyer12 said: So, what are you exactly trying to say here? That they should be coming to Paradis or not? And how is it related to what I said?How can you be so sure they won't come to paradise? they definitely don't have enough food or resources to survive after the rumbling. |
dark_knight107 said: The only similarity between them is how well written they are and how much of a master mind they had become. dark_knight107 said: where he convinced his father to steal the FT so that he could execute his secret plan dark_knight107 said: . But, he wasn't forced to do all of that due to the situation and did it on his own accord/will Lmao wtf are you even saying, on one paragraph you call eren a master mind. He planned everything. Everything was according to his will. In other para you say eren was forced to do all that he had no choice.and use time concepts, destiny to defend his actions dark_knight107 said: Eren never had any sort of real intention to paint them as heroes in the world's eyes. He very well knew that if they come and stop him together as a whole unit, they will naturally be seen as saviours of humanity anyways who helped to stop the rumbling. dark_knight107 said: The alliance killing Eren was all planned and allowed by Eren himself. He had given them a chance to come and stop him. He very well knew that the alliance wouldn't keep quiet and would definitely come for him anyways after killing those fascist Floch and the yeagerists.That is the sole reason as to why he didn't strip Armin and the Marley warriors of their titan shifter powers cause deep down he knew that he would be stopped by his friends anyways before he completes the rumbling and knew what he was doing was morally wrong. You literally say he had no intention to paint them as heroes. He didn't plan anything. also you say he cares for his friends.he did the rumbling for his friends. He knew if they come they will naturally become Saviour's of humanity.The alliance killing Eren was all planned and allowed by Eren himself What are you even trying say here exactly ? |
Averageenjoyer12Nov 13, 2022 12:27 AM
dark_knight107 said: Averageenjoyer12 said: So, what are you exactly trying to say here? That they should be coming to Paradis or not? And how is it related to what I said?How can you be so sure they won't come to paradise? they definitely don't have enough food or resources to survive after the rumbling. What they should come or not ? they have no choice. They don't have enough food or resources they will relay on paradis and all the things I mention above will happen if they come to paradis for resources. And you say its my imaginary interpretation. what's the point of painting alliance as Saviour's of humanity? |
Averageenjoyer12Nov 13, 2022 12:10 AM
dark_knight107 said: His direct/primary goal of starting a huge scale genocide wasn't to paint them as heroes directly. He had started it for a different purpose. What different purpose? dark_knight107 said: That's what I meant to say, that it wasn't his primary intention/objective to become the bad guy himself and get stopped by his former allies like Lelouch. I haven't watched code geass, I don't know anything about lelouch. dark_knight107 said: . I said that Eren had no intention directly to paint them as heroes in literary terms, if by any chance they managed to stop him you say by chance they managed to stop him. He had no intention to directly paint them as heroes.his main purpose of doing the rumbling was different dark_knight107 said: The alliance killing Eren was all planned and allowed by Eren himself. He had given them a chance to come and stop him. He very well knew that the alliance wouldn't keep quiet and would definitely come for him anyways after killing those fascist Floch and the yeagerists.That is the sole reason as to why he didn't strip Armin and the Marley warriors of their titan shifter powers cause deep down he knew that he would be stopped by his friends anyways before he completes the rumbling and knew what he was doing was morally wrong. Here, you said eren planned everything and allowed himself to be killed by the alliance. |
Averageenjoyer12Nov 13, 2022 1:08 AM
Averageenjoyer12 said: For crushing Marley and for his selfish dream for the outside world he saw in that book and also due to his false image of freedom in his mind.What different purpose? Averageenjoyer12 said: Do watch it and in the end something similar on the surface level happens to Lelouch, though in that case he plans all of it by himself unlike Eren.I haven't watched code geass, I don't know anything about lelouch. Averageenjoyer12 said: I said that it in context of the panels which I shared and also since it was coming from his pov. Notice how he is telling them that they are free to come and stop him if they want and he won't snatch away their freedom. And the only way to stop him is to kill him. I said that he planed to get killed by the alliance as he had used these manipulative words as an exaggeration to encourage and trick them into believing him so that they come for him.He hand no intention to directly paint them as heroes.his main purpose of doing the rumbling was different. Here, you said eren planned everything and allowed himself to be killed by the alliance. |
dk107_Nov 13, 2022 12:56 AM
dark_knight107 said: Averageenjoyer12 said: "But when they come to Paradis how do you think the paradis people will treat them. They will treat them just as how marley treated eldians.This may also lead to assassination attempts on historia, armin and conspiracy, schemes to conqure paradis."What they should come or not ? they have no choice. They don't have enough food or resources they will relay on paradis and all the things I mention above will happen if they come to paradis for resources. And you say its my imaginary interpretation. I said that this particular part was your imaginary opinion. The titan powers are gone now and they have accepted that the ignorant island devils/subjects of Ymir, which they once used to be and were feared and seen as a global threat, aren't purely evil in reality as shown by Marley and Willy. So why would they attempt assassinations on Historia or conspire schemes for no reason? Ntm, her and the alliance wouldn't let that happen as they have become peace ambassadors who now work for establishing peace and friendly relations and for improving the island's and eldians's image/reputation.Plus the Paradis military was now getting advanced with time so they won't let any of this happen. Paradis doesn't have that much resources to provide the outside world. How exactly the alliance would establish peace?  They are obviously retaining their military force in the last few panels Paradis has become just like the eldian empire 2000yrs ago, but this time the have no titan powers. From the outside world perspective they will Will look like dictators. They are the worlds only super power which provides resources to the world. Obviously paradis can't provide enough resources to all the people in the outside world. This leads to the things I mentioned above. That's why they are still maintaining their military forces. |
Averageenjoyer12Nov 13, 2022 1:19 AM
| Complete replacement of the final arc. |
| MEA·MENTVLA·INGENS·EST |
dark_knight107 said: he convinced his father to steal the FT so that he could execute his secret plan. dark_knight107 said: The alliance killing Eren was all planned and allowed by Eren himself. He had given them a chance to come and stop him. He very well knew that the alliance wouldn't keep quiet and would definitely come for him anyways after killing those fascist Floch and the yeagerists.That is the sole reason as to why he didn't strip Armin and the Marley warriors of their titan shifter powers cause deep down he knew that he would be stopped by his friends anyways before he completes the rumbling and knew what he was doing was morally wrong dark_knight107 said: I called Eren a master mind because how easily he manipulated and tricked everyone around him in s4 including Zeke (one of the smartest characters in AoT alongside Hange and Armin). And how he had formed the yeagerists, did a coup against Zachary, fooled Yelena, used the FT's power to address everyone etc. and how he had managed to convince his father to steal the FT and Ymir in order to start the rumbling. dark_knight107 said: He knew he would be stopped nonetheless if they worked together as a team along with external help from the other military officials and only revealed that himself to the alliance in ch133 and 139.Them stopping him would make them look like heroes as they are going against their own countryman/fellow eldian to prevent complete genocide. His dark_knight107 said: Notice how he is telling them that they are free to come and stop him if they want and he won't snatch away their freedom. And the only way to stop him is to kill him. I said that he planed to get killed by the alliance as he had used these manipulative words as an exaggeration to encourage and trick them into believing him so that they come for him. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ dark_knight107 said: he himself had admitted that the FT's power had taken a toll on his mind and had jumbled up his thoughts due to all the memories which he had received and shown dark_knight107 said: Eren was forced to start the rumbling due to the situation and due to no choice dark_knight107 said: His direct/primary goal of starting a huge scale genocide wasn't to paint them as heroes directly. He had started it for a different purpose. dark_knight107 said: How exactly should he have done that without killing innocents? Its just their misfortune and luck that they got dragged into the rumbling dark_knight107 said: Eren never had any sort of real intention to paint them as heroes in the world's eyes. dark_knight107 said: it wasn't his primary intention/objective to become the bad guy himself and get stopped by his former allies like Lelouch dark_knight107 said: Averageenjoyer12 said: For crushing Marley and for his selfish dream for the outside world he saw in that book and also due to his false image of freedom in his mind.What different purpose? 🤡(character limit) |
Ayanokiyo768Nov 13, 2022 6:57 AM
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