Attack on Titan
| Maybe he felt like flattening the world wouldn't be so bad after finding out his wife died? Idk. But yeah, it wasn't answered in the manga after the events of S4P2. All you're left with is the fact that Eren showed Grisha certain handpicked memories and apparently some of them were able to convince him to transfer his titans to Eren. I realise that he retook the Founder because he didn't know if his family was safe, but even after realising he had lost everything after reaching Shiganshina, he decided to give Eren his powers anyway. He probably went 'fuck it' and peaced out. |
certifiedbingerJul 18, 2022 1:45 AM
Bejitto said: Because he didn’t show grisha the whole rumbling thing, in episode 4 grisha say it What else could Grisha have meant when he said Eren would do something extremely horrible in Ep 4? |
SparCy said: DerpySven said: If this Will be explained in the manga pls Just say that. But grisha knows at the end that eren Will activate the rumbling and still decide to give it to eren. Why dont Just give it to someone else Cause of future eren showing grisha his memories, so grisha knows eren will start the rumbling so he knows he has to give his son his powers once he has gained the founding titan. That's not the question. Grisha explicitly stated that the Rumbling was something horrible, and told Zeke to stop Eren but still decided to hand over his powers. Why? That's the question. |
Bejitto said: Because he didn’t show grisha the whole rumbling thing, in episode 4 grisha say it i think he knew it was the rumbling what else could it be   |
Bejitto said: certifiedbinger said: What else could Grisha have meant when he said Eren would do something extremely horrible in Ep 4? That was not what really happened. I mean, do you think In the past grisha saw Zeke as we see in the episode 4? What really happened was that eren didn’t show grisha anything about the rumbling I don't think you really got what happened in Episode 4. That IS how it happened in the past. That's the whole plot twist lmao. If Eren and Zeke weren't there, Eren would've never gaslighted Grisha and he would've never stolen the Founding Titan. Yes, even in the past. |
Bejitto said: certifiedbinger said: I don't think you really got what happened in Episode 4. That IS how it happened in the past. That's the whole plot twist lmao. If Eren and Zeke weren't there, Eren would've never gaslighted Grisha and he would've never stolen the Founding Titan. Yes, even in the past. Dude… just rewatch the episode, eren Titan doesn’t make him travel in time, just make him show future memories, he didn’t saw zeke, just saw eren memories So you think Grisha hallucinated Zeke in the EXACT spot Zeke was standing while watching his memories? Yeah okay lmao He was able to see Zeke because Eren was standing right behind Grisha, looking at Zeke from the same angle. He sent those memories to Grisha, which was why he was able to see Zeke as well. But that's not the point here. Eren did show Grisha the Rumbling. That's the only thing he could've meant by 'terrible'. Unless you have a better interpretation, that is. I'm all ears. Watch an analysis video or something. People aren't stupid. |
Bejitto said: certifiedbinger said: So you think Grisha hallucinated Zeke in the EXACT spot Zeke was standing while watching his memories? Yeah okay lmao He was able to see Zeke because Eren was standing right behind Grisha, looking at Zeke from the same angle. He sent those memories to Grisha, which was why he was able to see Zeke as well. But that's not the point here. Eren did show Grisha the Rumbling. That's the only thing he could've meant by 'terrible'. Unless you have a better interpretation, that is. I'm all ears. Watch an analysis video or something. People aren't stupid. Lmao, you don’t get what I’m saying, and the whole episode plot…. I mean, two people are trying to tell you that you got it wrong, and you're still here trying to prove your point. Gotta admire that tenacity. But still, check out an analysis video. There might be interpretations different to your own. |
Shikhxrghh said: you know what, your question is completely off tbh. Grisha said in the 4th ep that the future bearer of the attack titan can send back glimpses of the future holder’s present events to the current bearer of the attack titan in the past. Going by this, the only way for grisha to have access to the glimpses of rumbling is by having eren inherit the attack titan in the first place. The future is already determined. There is no chance for grisha to know that happens in the future without having eren inherit the attack titan. If grisha has already seen eren’s memories then there is no going back. He cannot change the future. Hope this explains it. I think it is a very valid question. So you're trying to say that Grisha handed over the Titans to Eren despite him being against the Rumbling because he had already received certain memories? How does that strip him of his freedom though? He could've had those visions and still have gone against them. Why did he go along with it despite not condoning Eren's actions? You're claiming that it was because Grisha thought everything was set in stone, but did any specific piece of dialogue point towards that? |
Shikhxrghh said: certifiedbinger said: I think it is a very valid question. So you're trying to say that Grisha handed over the Titans to Eren despite him being against the Rumbling because he had already received certain memories? How does that strip him of his freedom though? He could've had those visions and still have gone against them. Why did he go along with it despite not condoning Eren's actions? You're claiming that it was because Grisha thought everything was set in stone, but did any specific piece of dialogue point towards that? See this is where the problem arises. I realised what you are trying to say while i was writing my inital post. Okay so what grisha sees is completely upto eren right? If grisha sees the glimpses of rumbling then that means eren gets the attack titan, right? If grisha were to oppose this by not having eren inherit the attack titan, then that would also mean that how did grisha prevent the rumbling from happening of eren does not gets the attack titan? This is pretty much the grandfather paradox man. About the dialogues, i think the way grisha acted felt like he does not have any control of whatever happens in the future. He begged zeke to stop eren. He obviously could have stopped eren from having the titan but it feels like he did not have any control. Moreover, grisha said “why wont you show me the full events”. I think this implies that only eren has the control of what grisha sees and if this is true then whatever i said up there makes complete sense as to why grisha could not have prevented it. Despite the existence of a bootstrap paradox, everything is tied to cause and effect. I still don't see why it wasn't POSSIBLE for Grisha to make his own decision. He was perfectly capable of making a different decision but he decided to give the Titans to Eren any way. If your argument were to pertain to Grisha's broken psyche and growing pessimism regarding the future, it'd make perfect sense why he'd just entrust everything to his child who would inevitably destroy humankind. But nothing of the sort was ever shown. My point is- Grisha wasn't in his right mind. It's not that it was actually destined to happen the exact same way, but that Grisha thought it was. Here's an analogy. Suppose you're a father who owns a Machine Gun. You suddenly get visions of your child using your machine gun to kill several people in the future. What would you do in this position? Would you accept the 'inevitability' of the future and decide to give your gun to the child anyway, or do you make a different decision? The Bootstrap Paradox or a 'loop' is a brilliant plot device, but it was terribly placed in this story. Not only did it undermine the storytelling, but it also created several fallacies. |
Shikhxrghh said: If grisha prevents this and someone else other than eren gets the attack titan then that means eren does not inherit the titan and does not send back memories, if he does not send back memories then grisha stays clueless. If he stays clueless then how does he prevent the rumbling from happening without ever having any knowledge about it. You cannot prevent something from happening which you are not aware about. That's my exact problem with this logic! Look at it this way; you think Grisha would remain 'clueless' if he were to make a different decision, correct? Clueless about what? If Eren never gets the Titans, the Rumbling doesn't happen. Why would Grisha be clueless about something that won't even happen anymore? |
Shikhxrghh said: certifiedbinger said: That's my exact problem with this logic! Look at it this way; you think Grisha would remain 'clueless' if he were to make a different decision, correct? Clueless about what? If Eren never gets the Titans, the Rumbling doesn't happen. Why would Grisha be clueless about something that won't even happen anymore? Because then that results in eren never being able to send back memories lool. I get what you are saying but you are missing out the most important point here. I completely get your logic with that specific part of the paradox, but look at it this way. This isn't the first show to delve into this particular Sci-fi trope. We never get a picture of what this paradox entails for the timeline and IF there are multiple timelines. Isayama tried to throw that in as well with the Sauna scenes and flashes of Goth Mikasa and Nerd Armin in the Paths, further undermining the story's take on the paradox. If Eren isn't able to send back his memories because of Grisha, it creates a paradox. But we were never told exactly what this paradox would result into, hence giving rise to the OP's question. Rather we get a vague confirmation about multiple timelines, further fueling the possibility that Grisha could've made a different decision. |
| Because he wanted Eren to stop Eren, so Eren wouldn't become Eren and Eren would Eren and then Eren Eren Eren Eren Eren Eren Eren Eren Eren Eren Eren Eren... |
 |
DerpySven said: If this Will be explained in the manga pls Just say that. But grisha knows at the end that eren Will activate the rumbling and still decide to give it to eren. Why dont Just give it to someone else Isayama kinda forgot about that imo... because sadly, we don't know. It's never explained and conflicts with Grisha's motivations, you can say one of the many plotholes of the late manga chapters. Some fan theories are like, maybe Eren triggered him into doing it similiar to how he made Grisha kill the Reiss family. Or maybe Grisha had a mental breakdown afters Carla's death and gave Eren the AT in order to revenge her, forgetting about all the consquences in that moment. But TBH, It doesn’t make any sense, because nothing should have convinced Grisha to give the AT to his son after seeing something like the rumbling. Because what does “If you want to save Armin and Mikasa, you must master this power!” Mean when Grisha already knows that Eren will get in his way? And go on to do the rumbling? Nothing compels your physical body to do things. There’s nothing physically forcing Grisha to give the AT to his son. He made that choice himself. Using the “he had to because Eren has it in the future” doesn’t work because that never would have been an option had he not given it to Eren in the first place. Chapter 121, despite it being “hype” made Grisha’s character inconsistent for the sake of a “shock value” twist that didn’t change anything. Basically, Isayama wanted to write a “cool scene” without thinking about its implications. |
itsrj20Jul 18, 2022 3:48 AM
 • Watching this season • My Anime list • Comment |
| I am surprised by comments, by how people see it, while nothing is explained related to it, not in anime nor even in manga, it's like at this point, everyone is coming up with what they understood from it. |
• Watching this season • My Anime list • Comment |
Shikhxrghh said: Would grisha still retain the memories of the rumbling if he were to not have eren inherit the attack? How does he recieve them without ever having eren eat the founding titan? That's never discussed; which I feel is the biggest problem with its use in the show. Lack of information. But from what I understand of the time travel concepts in fiction, and given the confirmation of multiple timelines, I believe Grisha would retain his memories in a new timeline where he doesn't pass on his titans to Eren, while another origin timeline would simultaneously exist, where Eren initiates the Rumbling. Shikhxrghh said: That's exactly it. The vagueness and lack of information is what gave rise to this question in the first place. You pointed out that it would result in a paradox, which is undeniably what the author wanted to convey. But what next? The paradox must result in something right?From what i feel like i’ve learned is that we dont know how things would proceed after grisha prevents eren from inheriting the attack titan, right? Whether it results in the current timeline being altered all together or the birth of a tangent from the exact point, right? Shikhxrghh said: So in the aot case, if the rumbling is something inevitable then it would always result in the rumbling taking place, right? If it isnt something inevitable then how would things proceed? A new timeline where the rumbling never happens with the original timeline being completely unaffected(with the rumbling taking place) or the original timeline being completely altered where everyone forgets everything related to eren every inheriting the attack titan?? I think its completely ambiguous and upto us to what to make of it honestly. Steins;Gate used a different time travel trope, that was also recently done in the Marvel TV show What If. That dealt with a specific inevitable incident being rooted in a specific group of timelines. In case said incident does not occur, the timelines would collapse entirely. I believe they could have gone ahead and confirmed that the same was true with the Rumbling, explaining why Grisha did what he did, but lack of information strikes again. I agree with its ambiguity. Ultimately, all we can do is make most of the information we DID get, rather than basing the What-Ifs on information we didn't get. I was convinced on the existence of multiple timelines with the Paths sequence, and that formed the basis of my interpretation of the story. Your take on a linear timeline's paradox is very intriguing, but given that the concept of the paradox was never explored, we can only go so far without treading into headcanon territory. |
| I'll probably get a lot of stuff wrong but I'm gonna try my best: 1)Grisha was able to see Zeke through Eren's POV. He in fact did not hallucinate seeing Zeke there since future memories can be seen by past users. 2)As for The main Question of why did Grisha gave the titan powers to Eren,I'm using Episode 11 of Season 3 for reason since that's when Griesha meets Eren in a church(?) after his Mother's death alongside Shadith. After discovering Carla's death,Griesha specifically asks Eren to Avenge his mother's death.Griesha takes Eren's hand and walks out into the forest.Shadith stops him and asks him why he doesn't do it instead? "Why is it because you're special?Unlike me.." He even questions that what if Eren isn't like you,what if he's not the chosen one.(He says this oblivious of the fact that Griesha has Titan powers I think) "What if you're gonna curse someone else?" Griesha stops him and says "He's my son.He's not like you.Stay out of this." Then Cue in the scene with Eren eating Grisha and waking up later with Mikasa and Armin. The dialouge with Shadith and Griesha makes sense here since at this point Eren has shown him the future memories of the rumbling and with Carla's death fueling his desire for vengeance once again just like the dogs that ate his sister to pieces and just like his other fellow Eldians dying,Griesha gives the power to Eren.To protect Mikasa,Armin and the others.From making the same mistakes his Father once Did. I hope this scene helped even for a bit. If I got anything wrong,please feel free to point out.I was also mindblown by the twist and still couldn't process it months later lol    |
| it's I think because the world of aot is a pre determined one, everything is set in stone frm the start to the end,like the past future and present all happens at the same time. Eren made grisha watch the rumbling so now that is the only future that can exist,grisha can't do anything to change it now,he has to do it in order to reach this destination in the end,even of he doesn't do it,it will surely happen in another way,and also I think he went insane when he got to know that Carla died and tht probably acted as a catalyst too. bt yeah,in the end it's just time related stuff I guess |
 |
DerpySven said: If this Will be explained in the manga pls Just say that. But grisha knows at the end that eren Will activate the rumbling and still decide to give it to eren. Why dont Just give it to someone else Who else would he give his powers to? If there was any hope it was with Eren, and if he didn't pass it on it goes to some random baby, which would be much worse. Also the wall collapsed, and his wife died, Eren was the only hope for Eldia, he just had to take his chances |
CreepHazardJul 18, 2022 12:48 PM
itsrj20 said: I am surprised by comments, by how people see it, while nothing is explained related to it, not in anime nor even in manga, it's like at this point, everyone is coming up with what they understood from it. This tbh, after Chapter 116 it gets extremely rushed. But hey atleast it's still great to watch |
More topics from this board
Poll: » Shingeki no Kyojin: The Final Season Part 2 Episode 12 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )anime-prime - Apr 3, 2022 |
574 |
by mateben
»»
Oct 4, 7:46 AM |
|
Poll: » Shingeki no Kyojin: The Final Season Part 2 Episode 4 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )anime-prime - Jan 30, 2022 |
557 |
by Goxist
»»
Sep 21, 4:36 AM |
|
Poll: » Shingeki no Kyojin: The Final Season Part 2 Episode 9 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )anime-prime - Mar 6, 2022 |
313 |
by Hylianticipated
»»
Sep 3, 10:48 PM |
|
» I think eren did the right thing ( 1 2 )SenseixSenpai - Feb 4, 2022 |
53 |
by MergedZamasu
»»
Aug 28, 12:29 PM |
|
Poll: » It's been 3 years... What's your opinion on the ending, now ⁉️ ( 1 2 )neel_senpai - Jul 9 |
94 |
by PeterOliver1
»»
Aug 25, 12:46 PM |