Add a 0/10 score?

Sep 11, 2021 8:59 PM

JoJo enthusiast

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Dec 2020

908

I know that I'm definitely not the first person who's suggested this, and I'm aware that quite a few people would be opposed to this idea, but I think I know how to implement it in a way that (hopefully) everyone will like.

As far as I can tell, most people's apprehension to the idea is for one of two reasons.
1) Trolls/bots could easily abuse the system to downvote particular series, or
2) Having a bunch of 0/10s on your own list will lower your mean score.

So my idea is simple - Users can mark something as "0/10" but it doesn't actually affect the anime's average score or the user's personal mean score. Essentially, it's the same as if the score was left unmarked, but I think it would be nice to have the option so that people like me are able to display their sheer hatred towards certain series.

Kuroni_KuruSep 12, 2021 5:34 AM

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Sep 11, 2021 10:19 PM

cipheron

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Aug 2011

1511

Cladocera said:
It actually has nothing to do with bots or mean score at all. It is simply unnecessary. People often think there must be something below a positive-numbered rating, so they automatically assign a positive connotation to even the lowest - "ah, this number still represents some merits". But no, the lowest rating means the lowest rating. In the case of MAL, 1 is the bottom, the worst, there is nothing lower than that.

Yeah, this is best summed up by the movie Spinal Tap:

So we currently have a system with 10 divisions. Adding a 0 score would add an 11th division. But the problem with that, is that at the *bottom* isn't where an additional grade or two would be handy. People shouldn't have that many shows on their list that are rated either 1/10 or 10/10, so having more detail at that range is kinda pointless.

Do people have so many 1/10s that they're concerned that they can't order them into "horrible" vs "really horrible" subsets? Anyone already using 1/10 to mean "totally" hate would have a problem if a 0/10 score was added, because the mere existence of the 0/10 would in fact retroactively change the meaning of those 1/10 scores.

Where additional points would be more handy is the upper middle; for example I've seen a lot of things so have a lot of 7s and 8s on my list. Being able to order them a bit more when sorted by score would be nice. but then again, getting bogged down in the exact percentage that each show is worth would be more of a pain that it's worth and distract from actually watching shows.

cipheronSep 11, 2021 10:26 PM

Sep 11, 2021 11:56 PM

Adampk

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Feb 2020

5797

"people like me are able to display their sheer hatred towards certain series."
I think its stupid, but whatever

"Essentially, it's the same as if the score was let unmarked"
then mark it complete or whatever and then just dont rated it. its technically 0 since u have not rated it. As a user said above said u can also use tags to express u hatred.

It is simply useless function to add a 0/10 which doesn't affect rating

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Sep 11, 2021 11:57 PM

KiR4T

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Jan 2021

2542

You can just choose the 'select' score option :/

It shows '0' in the list anyway.

Sep 12, 2021 1:39 AM

3miL

Grave of Flowers

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Dec 2012

72400

I can't believe I'd see the day you talk about hatred lol

I never thought you guys would be the type to do so

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Sep 12, 2021 5:55 AM

Kuroni_Kuru

JoJo enthusiast

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Dec 2020

908

Thanks for you input, everyone. While I do still personally think it's a good idea, I will admit that there are some perspectives here that I hadn't even considered. :P

Cladocera said:
People often think there must be something below a positive-numbered rating, so they automatically assign a positive connotation to even the lowest - "ah, this number still represents some merits".

On a side note, you can always use tags.

Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but isn't 0 technically a "positive number" as well? My own personal rating system goes all the way down to negative 10, but I'm aware that most people aren't nearly as vindictive when rating shows as I am, so I know nobody would've been happy if I suggested changing the rating system that much, LOL.

On a side note, I already have a tag for "0/10", but I just think that it would be nice if MAL just gave users the option to rate something 0/10 without the use of tags.

Do people have so many 1/10s that they're concerned that they can't order them into "horrible" vs "really horrible" subsets? Anyone already using 1/10 to mean "totally" hate would have a problem if a 0/10 score was added, because the mere existence of the 0/10 would in fact retroactively change the meaning of those 1/10 scores.

I see where you're coming from, but to answer your first question - Yes. I actually do have so many 1/10s that I'd want to change from "horrible" to "really horrible", LOL. Although I do understand why someone who doesn't have as many 0/10s as I do might be apprehensive to changing their rating system. :\

KiR4T said:
You can just choose the 'select' score option. It shows '0' in the list anyway.

I assume you're using MAL on mobile? On PC, unrated anime are displayed with a dash (-) rather than a zero, which I honestly think should be added to the mobile version of MAL as well.

3miL said:
I can't believe I'd see the day you talk about hatred lol

I never thought you guys would be the type to do so

I'm flattered that you think I'm that pure, LOL. :) I would almost never speak negatively of a real person, but I have no qualms with taking certain series down a few pegs. :P

The Sealing Club is back, baby!

Sep 12, 2021 5:57 AM

Kogasa-Tatara

Laika Moonlight

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Dec 2020

2433

Yeah, I'm all for this, if only because MAL has an even number of ratings to use currently (10) and adding an 11th one would actually make "5/10" an "average/neutral" score, which is something I think all rating systems should account for. I don't want to label every series as either "good" or "bad", I want to be able to say "I have no strong opinion about this series one way or the other" too

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Sep 12, 2021 6:08 AM

CondemneDio

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Jan 2013

6445

0 already is there, it's called leaving the entry unrated.

Sep 12, 2021 8:17 AM

zombie_pegasus

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Oct 2014

15239

I mean, the vast majority of people only rate from 6-10 so a score of 0 would be pretty unused if it was implemented. Maybe it would help one or two people, but it's not something the developers really need to spend their time on.

Sep 12, 2021 8:23 AM

#10

Kuroni_Kuru

JoJo enthusiast

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Dec 2020

908

zombie_pegasus said:
I mean, the vast majority of people only rate from 6-10 so a score of 0 would be pretty unused if it was implemented. Maybe it would help one or two people, but it's not something the developers really need to spend their time on.

Maybe if there's a show that someone really hates, they might give it a 0/10, but otherwise I don't really expect people to use it much TBH. Still, for the one or two people who would use it, I think it would be nice to supply them with the option.

v Well, that's good to know I guess. :P Yeah, I already have "0/10" in my tags, but it would be nice to have the option to use it on my list proper.

Kuroni_KuruSep 12, 2021 8:28 AM

The Sealing Club is back, baby!

Sep 12, 2021 8:24 AM

#11

Scordolo

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Jul 2020

10610

The mods confirmed they are not gonna change anything related to the scoring system. You can just mention it in the tag anyway.

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Sep 12, 2021 8:51 AM

#12

removed-user

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Jul 2018

564612

I don't see how anyone could hate a series so much to give a score of 0. If you dislike a series so much, don't watch it in the first place or just don't score it.

Sep 12, 2021 9:03 AM

#13

Kuroni_Kuru

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Dec 2020

908

TheFireNinja said:
If you dislike a series so much, don't watch it in the first place

Easier said than done, I'm afraid. Everyone told me that Pop Team Epic was like Nichijou, so of course I watched. I didn't know at the time that I'd absolutely despise it. It's not like I know if I'm going to give a series a 0/10 score before I watch it.

TheFireNinja said:
or just don't score it.

Unfortunately, I am a completionist with severe OCD, LOL. If even one thing on my completed list doesn't have a score charted I feel needlessly triggered, so a 1/10 is the best that I can do. :\

The Sealing Club is back, baby!

Sep 17, 2021 1:12 PM

#14

cipheron

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Aug 2011

1511

Kuroni_Kuru said:

Supplying them with "the option" would require significant retooling of the site.

If you rate a show "5/10" then the database needs to store the value 5 somewhere, so it uses a numerical variable to store that in. It still needs to put a "placeholder value" in the variable even if you haven't assigned a rating to it yet, and the default value for any numerical value is already 0. This is standard in almost all programming languages, and databases always default to putting 0 in a numeric field unless you specifically tell it not to. So it's sort of a no-brainer that the original designer of MAL used 0 to indicate ratings which hadn't been filled in yet.

EDIT: as proof of this, you can go to any anime, and right click on the Your Score box and inspect the HTML. For shows you don't rate, it sends back 0 as the value. So, 0 is the rating already for shows you haven't rated.

So, for each list entry with no rating assigned, it's already using 0 as the filler for the rating. So, if you want to repurpose 0 as an actual rating, you need to assign a new default value, say -1 or something, then go through the entire code-base and find anywhere it checks for 0 then change the code to check for -1 instead. Then you have to take the entire database offline and run a script on it that finds all the ratings which are currently 0 and changes them to the new placeholder of -1.

Then you cross your fingers that none of those things you did actually broke the site. Pro-tip: it almost definitely already broke the site, it's just a matter of whether it's immediately broken or subtly broken, or if the breakage is enough that it corrupts the database somehow, or if it's broken in some lingering way that's only finally chased down years later.

And remember this is even before you think about building a new system that allows that magical 0/10 rating.

cipheronSep 17, 2021 2:02 PM

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