Puella Magi Madoka Magica
| Hi! I've been wondering about this for a while: why do so many people love Madoka? What's so special about it? I really can't get all that hype about the show. And please, don't take my message as some kind of provocation. I'm simply curious |
| It’s a perfect example of “don’t just judge a book by its cover.” At first glance it appears to be your typical cutesy magical girl anime but there’s something much darker lurking under the surface. It’s definitely one of my personal favorites. |
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| first of all it's unusual, and I love unusual or experimental shows. Madoka introduced me to Shinbou's extraordinary directing and I was stunned by how much symbolism was put into it. Gekidan Inu Curry's art used in witches scenarios was also pretty damn good. Yuki Kajiura is my favorite composer too, so I loved every single OST. Urobuchi Gen's writing is my jam, dark and pessimistic stories are always the ones that make me all hyped for the next episode, I couldn't stop watching |
| It's really well crafted. The show doesn't talk down to its audience, opting to show rather than write lengthy exposition, which really helps in building sympathizable characters. It also explores some themes which many of us can relate to as humans, it steps away from the black and white views of good/evil to deliver a deeper view of morality. All that helps create a story about hope which actually carries real weight to it. |
| Honestly, OP, I'm in the same boat as you. I wasn't surprised when a show with witches causing suicides in episode 1 turned out not to be all smiles and rainbows, and I don't really see what the hype is beyond that initial "surprise" which, again, I easily predicted before the first episode was even over I'm pretty sure Madoka Magica isn't even the first show of its kind (that "kind" being dark mahou shoujo) and it certainly isn't anywhere near the best of its kind IMO (that honor goes to Day Break Illusion) It's not a terrible show by any means (of all the anime I didn't like, it is admittedly my favorite) but I wouldn't personally call it "good" I'm happy to see everyone else on this thread enjoyed it though, since I always like to see people enjoying media that they like, whether I could enjoy that piece of media or not. Keep enjoying anime, guys, and congrats on getting your 4th movie! Hopefully it'll be the one where I finally "click" with this series, lol |
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| @Kii_Ibarra and the ( Thingoln said: )Hi! I've been wondering about this for a while: why do so many people love Madoka? What's so special about it? I really can't get all that hype about the show. And please, don't take my message as some kind of provocation. I'm simply curious With respect it's really quite self apparent. Keeping it brief your looking at a top notch production, the OST by Yuki is exceptionally well fitted to the show, along with just being great to listen to and nicely varied. The animation is Great all round, espically in character+witch designs and of course the lybrinths are almost stylistically unique. As a world it's fascinating, full of small detail and little discrepancies that make it stand out from our own in interesting ways. Then theres the story and characters. The story is tightly written, solidly realised and full of clever theming. Then for characters you get what seem like fairly simple, albeit effective, cast members but benitit the surface are wonderful layers of subtlety in their story telling and visual design depiction. Some brief and very simply examples would be how kuyko is always eating and prescious about food, reminding us that she was poor and famished as a child but also acting as a constant reminder that the magical girls bodies arnt human, she can litterally eat as badly as she wants and it won't matter. Or how Sayaka, the girl who inspires hope in Kuyko by reminding her of old childhood fairytales, is litterally dressed up as a story book knigth, which in itself is indicative of how she wants to be selfless but as we all know, knigths may be alturistic but their also often the centre of attention. It's a story that doesn't hold back, it's got a sort of bitter meloncoly but it can also be quite sweet within that compromise. So ya brilliant piece of craftsmanship, I can only suggest it wasn't for you if you didn't like it, which is totally cool but completely subjective👍👍. |
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| @momentie I respect your opinion, but this is the show that spawned "Meduka Meguca", so I wouldn't say the animation is "great all round" although most of the time it does look pretty stunning and the way the characters were drawn (especially their cheek outlines the way one cheek always has a much thicker outline than the other) really bothered me for some reason that I'm not even quite sure of myself, TBH. The labyrinths ARE pretty unique from an anime standpoint, but lots of western animation includes photo realistic visuals blended with 2D characters so that's nothing new to me. I don't care how good/bad the animation is when watching/rating an anime though, so none of that matters to me anyway It's hard to argue that the only reason it wasn't for me was because I didn't like it, but the same could be said about anyone else disliking anything else. Of course, there are plenty of reasons behind me not liking it (one-note characters, not fond of the art-style, story felt like it was edgy for edginess's sake IMO, I was bored to tears by everything except Sayaka and Kyosuke, I found all of the music except for Magia and Kyubey's theme to be forgettable, SUPER predictable plot twists IMO, symbolism that for the most part didn't really do anything for the plot, useless plot points like the girls being turned into "zombies", etc) but yeah, they're all entirely subjective reasons, and I'm sure a much less... IDK, "critical"(?) viewer wouldn't be bothered by them at all. Plus even most critical viewers would probably look past them, if they liked the story, direction or whatever else Again, I'm glad you and every other fan of Madoka Magica enjoyed the show but you're absolutely right, I just didn't like it :) EDIT: Just going to reply in my previous comment, so as not to fill this thread with just my responses, lol momentie said: Again, as you said your self most of you complaints are totally personal,a score of course factors in the aesthetic and production values for most(it's fine that it doesn't for you, you do you😎), calling It edgy without evidence is just opinion and theirs dozens of eassys on the depths of each character, so calling them one note is once more only your own feelings. I'd have to disagree again with your last point, there is nothing to be looked past in this show other then the most minor or irrelevant of issues. As for the score I'm mostly interested in how well it's made and how it fits what I'm watching. Subjectively you may just not like it and that's cool, though I'd humbly suggest you give it a try out of context (it's up on YouTube) , you may be surprised if you hear it seperate to the visuals and also it's just a really good listen in the background 😁😉. But ya, I appreciate your being able to achknolage it's a personal taste thing and for being so civil, the community could do with more people like you😁😂. If you haven't already, it migth be worth rewatching the show or the compilation movies and trying to forget about weather a twist is predictable and instead try and focus on it for what it is and what it wants to be. You migth just end up likeing it more on a second viewing if you remove any pre-concived notions. Nice talking to you👍. P.s. the show your thinking of in your initial post is probably lyrical girl nonoha(argueabley there are other dark magical girl shows before it but it's most often the one credited as the progenitor of the genre) In theory I probably would enjoy the music more on its own, since it was composed by Yuki Kajiura, who also composed one of my favorite anime OSTs (the Princess Principal soundtrack), so Madoka's soundtrack is definitely something I could look into more some other time I plan on rewatching Madoka Magica eventually along with my best friend (who is a huge fan of the show), partly to try and gain a better appreciation of it and partly to joke around with someone who I know doesn't mind me laughing at their favorite shows (and hey, laughing at a show is still a perfectly valid form of entertainment, so whether I like it more on a rewatch or not, I'll probably end up enjoying it more that the first time anyways, lol). That said, I am fully expecting to enjoy Madoka Magica more on a rewatch especially if the recaps cut out the "zombie bridge" scene, lol It was nice talking to you too, and yeah, the community could do with more people like you as well! :) If Lyrical Nanoha is the series that people credit with inventing the genre, than it probably is the one I was thinking of! The only dark magical girl series I've seen that predates PMMM is Uta~Kata, which isn't exactly well-known and for good reason, I'd say. Uta~Kata's really... not good, IMO. Of-course that's my own opinion too, but it's the kind of series that tries to be dark while also making sure the camera is angled up its lead's skirt at all times, if that give you any indication of its quality, lol I mean, I've heard Princess Tutu gets kinda dark as well, but I've only seen the first season, so... |
Kogasa-TataraJun 24, 2021 7:36 PM
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Kii_Ibarra said: @momentie I respect your opinion, but this is the show that spawned "Meduka Meguca", so I wouldn't say the animation is great "all round" and the way the characters were drawn (especially their cheek outlines) really bothered me, TBH. The labyrinths ARE pretty unique from an anime standpoint, but lots of western animation includes photo realistic visuals blended with 2D characters so that's nothing new to me. I don't care how good/bad the animation is when watching/rating an anime though, so none of that matters to me anyway It's hard to argue that the only reason it wasn't for me was because I didn't like it, but the same could be said about anyone else disliking anything else. Of course, there are plenty of reasons behind me not liking it (one-note characters, not fond of the art-style, story felt like it was edgy for edginess's sake, I was bored to tears by everything except Sayaka and Kyosuke, I found all of the music except for Magia and Kyubey's theme to be forgettable, SUPER predictable plot twists, symbolism that didn't really do anything for the plot, useless plot points like the girls being turned into "zombies", etc) but yeah, they're all entirely subjective reasons, and I'm sure a much less... IDK, "critical"(?) viewer wouldn't be bothered by them at all. Plus even most critical viewers would probably look past them, if they liked the story, direction or whatever else Again, I'm glad you and every other fan of Madoka Magica enjoyed the show but you're absolutely right, I just didn't like it :) Again, as you said your self most of you complaints are totally personal,a score of course factors in the aesthetic and production values for most(it's fine that it doesn't for you, you do you😎), calling It edgy without evidence is just opinion and theirs dozens of eassys on the depths of each character, so calling them one note is once more only your own feelings. I'd have to disagree again with your last point, there is nothing to be looked past in this show other then the most minor or irrelevant of issues. As for the score I'm mostly interested in how well it's made and how it fits what I'm watching. Subjectively you may just not like it and that's cool, though I'd humbly suggest you give it a try out of context (it's up on YouTube) , you may be surprised if you hear it seperate to the visuals and also it's just a really good listen in the background 😁😉. But ya, I appreciate your being able to achknolage it's a personal taste thing and for being so civil, the community could do with more people like you😁😂. If you haven't already, it migth be worth rewatching the show or the compilation movies and trying to forget about weather a twist is predictable and instead try and focus on it for what it is and what it wants to be. You migth just end up likeing it more on a second viewing if you remove any pre-concived notions. Nice talking to you👍. P.s. the show your thinking of in your initial post is probably lyrical girl nonoha(argueabley there are other dark magical girl shows before it but it's most often the one credited as the progenitor of the genre) |
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| It is literally the best anime in anime. Superior in technical aspects with names that make the avengers look like a wannabe gang. Storytelling low-key from the depths of kino. Enjoyment is pretty much always 10/10. You have some kind of wrong opinion if you say otherwise smhmhmhmhmh. |
Kii_Ibarra said: @momentie I respect your opinion, but this is the show that spawned "Meduka Meguca", so I wouldn't say the animation is "great all round" although most of the time it does look pretty stunning and the way the characters were drawn (especially their cheek outlines the way one cheek always has a much thicker outline than the other) really bothered me for some reason that I'm not even quite sure of myself, TBH. The labyrinths ARE pretty unique from an anime standpoint, but lots of western animation includes photo realistic visuals blended with 2D characters so that's nothing new to me. I don't care how good/bad the animation is when watching/rating an anime though, so none of that matters to me anyway It's hard to argue that the only reason it wasn't for me was because I didn't like it, but the same could be said about anyone else disliking anything else. Of course, there are plenty of reasons behind me not liking it (one-note characters, not fond of the art-style, story felt like it was edgy for edginess's sake IMO, I was bored to tears by everything except Sayaka and Kyosuke, I found all of the music except for Magia and Kyubey's theme to be forgettable, SUPER predictable plot twists IMO, symbolism that for the most part didn't really do anything for the plot, useless plot points like the girls being turned into "zombies", etc) but yeah, they're all entirely subjective reasons, and I'm sure a much less... IDK, "critical"(?) viewer wouldn't be bothered by them at all. Plus even most critical viewers would probably look past them, if they liked the story, direction or whatever else Again, I'm glad you and every other fan of Madoka Magica enjoyed the show but you're absolutely right, I just didn't like it :) EDIT: Just going to reply in my previous comment, so as not to fill this thread with just my responses, lol momentie said: Again, as you said your self most of you complaints are totally personal,a score of course factors in the aesthetic and production values for most(it's fine that it doesn't for you, you do you😎), calling It edgy without evidence is just opinion and theirs dozens of eassys on the depths of each character, so calling them one note is once more only your own feelings. I'd have to disagree again with your last point, there is nothing to be looked past in this show other then the most minor or irrelevant of issues. As for the score I'm mostly interested in how well it's made and how it fits what I'm watching. Subjectively you may just not like it and that's cool, though I'd humbly suggest you give it a try out of context (it's up on YouTube) , you may be surprised if you hear it seperate to the visuals and also it's just a really good listen in the background 😁😉. But ya, I appreciate your being able to achknolage it's a personal taste thing and for being so civil, the community could do with more people like you😁😂. If you haven't already, it migth be worth rewatching the show or the compilation movies and trying to forget about weather a twist is predictable and instead try and focus on it for what it is and what it wants to be. You migth just end up likeing it more on a second viewing if you remove any pre-concived notions. Nice talking to you👍. P.s. the show your thinking of in your initial post is probably lyrical girl nonoha(argueabley there are other dark magical girl shows before it but it's most often the one credited as the progenitor of the genre) In theory I probably would enjoy the music more on its own, since it was composed by Yuki Kajiura, who also composed one of my favorite anime OSTs (the Princess Principal soundtrack), so Madoka's soundtrack is definitely something I could look into more some other time I plan on rewatching Madoka Magica eventually along with my best friend (who is a huge fan of the show), partly to try and gain a better appreciation of it and partly to joke around with someone who I know doesn't mind me laughing at their favorite shows (and hey, laughing at a show is still a perfectly valid form of entertainment, so whether I like it more on a rewatch or not, I'll probably end up enjoying it more that the first time anyways, lol). That said, I am fully expecting to enjoy Madoka Magica more on a rewatch especially if the recaps cut out the "zombie bridge" scene, lol It was nice talking to you too, and yeah, the community could do with more people like you as well! :) If Lyrical Nanoha is the series that people credit with inventing the genre, than it probably is the one I was thinking of! The only dark magical girl series I've seen that predates PMMM is Uta~Kata, which isn't exactly well-known and for good reason, I'd say. Uta~Kata's really... not good, IMO. Of-course that's my own opinion too, but it's the kind of series that tries to be dark while also making sure the camera is angled up its lead's skirt at all times, if that give you any indication of its quality, lol I mean, I've heard Princess Tutu gets kinda dark as well, but I've only seen the first season, so... Ya definetly give it a shot and I totally agree, I to love the princess principal OsT, heck the show in general is one of those great unsung gems😎. Sounds like you'll have a lot of fun, j hope you and your friend enjoy👍. And yea, as I said nanoha is the one people site but their are other like tutu and utena with dark elements but where it isn't really the focus or goal of the show. Goodnigth👍. |
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momentie said: I to love the princess principal OsT, heck the show in general is one of those great unsung gems😎. Goodnigth👍. Absolutely agree! I even have Princess Principal in my favorites! And goodnight to you, too! |
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| @Kii_Ibarra You're supposed to know the gist of what's gonna happen, that's the point of foreshadowing. Initially I thought the "the only appeal is the ep3 plot twist" argument was just something haters were throwing around to try and discredit the show (the same way people say the only good thing about Your name/Demon Slayer/JJK is the animation) but turns out now even the fans are like "hey this show might seem like the typical cutesie magical girl show but turns out it isn't". I don't think the point of the show was to completely shock the viewer with one tone shift and then fuck about for 10 episodes, it's presented in a cutesie kinda magical way at first (still with a strong layer of darkness lurking) to show what kind of story the characters are expecting to live. The characters don't know what they're getting into but the viewer knows, that's how you build anticipation and a sense of dread. You're supposed to know that being a magical girl isn't fun and games and that Kyuubey is up to no good, the question is when will they realise it, what will happen and why is Kyuubey trying so hard to coerce Madoka specifically into it. I think that's why people call it a "deconstruction" (or at least they used to), Madoka is a "chosen one" protagonist, except she's only the chosen one because of the deliberate actions of other characters so there's a clear, plot relevant reason for her to be this way, basically in "real life" there's no such thing as a "chosen one". The same way there's a clear in universe reason for magical girls to exists, it's not the cutesie escapism fun that the characters think it is, this is real life and we're luring young girls into a system of exploitation (hey doesn't that sound like real life idols/actresses). In that say theme, there's a monkey's paw element to all of their wishes. I agree that a lot of praise Madoka get for standing out is probably undeserved and comes from the fact that most Madoka watchers don't actually know a lot about Magical girls anime in general, you see that all the time. People calling OPM some kind of amazing parody of battle shounen despite not knowing a lot about battle shounen as a genre, or people praising the new shows like MHA, JJK or Demon Slayer for being deep or complex when compared to their preconceived notions of the genre or previous shows of that genre, it kinda has the same energy as my mom saying "rap music sucks, all they talk about is bitches and money" which just demonstrates a lack of knowledge and no actual criticism, but whatever, this whole paragraph is a shitty tangent. Also, yeah the animation is quite bad for the most part, but the show has a strong visual presentation (except for all the bits where the characters go off model) which compensates for it for some viewers but I'm never agreeing with anyone dissing on the OST, that shit is amazing to listen to even outside of the reals of the show and the individual tracks perfectly set the tone for the scenes they're in. I'm not annoyed with you in any way and I don't want to come across as aggressive or unfair, I'm not actually the hugest fan of the show myself, Madoka as a protagonist is a bit shit, the animation is straight up bad (it's great in Rebelion though), it's mad edgy (just look at who the fuck wrote the damn thing) and I'm probably too dumb to analyse all the "symbolism" or "psychological layers" but I'm tired of the conversation devolving into whether it's predictable or not as a measure of quality whenever the show is brought up, cause it's reductive and frankly boring. |
Touniouk said: Madoka as a protagonist is a bit shit I dunno, I feel like she's a seriously misunderstood character. |
Touniouk said: Initially I thought the "the only appeal is the ep3 plot twist" argument was just something haters were throwing around to try and discredit the show (the same way people say the only good thing about Your name/Demon Slayer/JJK is the animation) but turns out now even the fans are like "hey this show might seem like the typical cutesie magical girl show but turns out it isn't". I honestly don't think I've ever seen a "hater" use that argument before. I'm absolutely not saying that I don't believe you or anything, I've only been in the "Madoka Magica community" as I guess you could call it for 2 years and I've only been on this specific website for about half a year. It's just that it's only ever the fans that I hear saying that, lol. Touniouk said: I don't think the point of the show was to completely shock the viewer with one tone shift and then fuck about for 10 episodes, it's presented in a cutesie kinda magical way at first (still with a strong layer of darkness lurking) to show what kind of story the characters are expecting to live. The characters don't know what they're getting into but the viewer knows, that's how you build anticipation and a sense of dread. You're supposed to know that being a magical girl isn't fun and games and that Kyuubey is up to no good, the question is when will they realise it, what will happen and why is Kyuubey trying so hard to coerce Madoka specifically into it. I definitely agree. As I stated on a different thread, I don't get why so many people seemed to be surprised when the show wasn't all smiles and rainbows. The opening scene was enough to indicate to me that the show would be pretty "edgy", for lack of a better term Touniouk said: I think that's why people call it a "deconstruction" (or at least they used to), Madoka is a "chosen one" protagonist, except she's only the chosen one because of the deliberate actions of other characters so there's a clear, plot relevant reason for her to be this way, basically in "real life" there's no such thing as a "chosen one". The same way there's a clear in universe reason for magical girls to exists, it's not the cutesie escapism fun that the characters think it is, this is real life and we're luring young girls into a system of exploitation (hey doesn't that sound like real life idols/actresses). In that say theme, there's a monkey's paw element to all of their wishes. I find it funny that people always used to call this show a deconstruction (including a fanfiction writer I really like who cited it as an inspiration for their own deconstructive work) considering that Gen Urobuchi himself stated that the show isn't a deconstruction, rather it's simply a mahou shoujo with dark elements IIRC. I'm not sure I'd say there's a "clear reason" for magical girls to exist in-universe, considering I fail to see what magical girls fighting witches has to do with keeping entropy in-check. At that point, witches and magical girls may as well just cease to exist, rather than having to cancel each other out through fighting to the death, no? Touniouk said: I agree that a lot of praise Madoka get for standing out is probably undeserved and comes from the fact that most Madoka watchers don't actually know a lot about Magical girls anime in general, you see that all the time. Yeah, I get that. Truthfully, I'd only seen one magical girl series (Day Break Illusion) before I watched Madoka Magica myself, so I don't know why so many newer fans of the genre assume Madoka is so unique, if others like myself could tell from little experience that it really wasn't. Maybe they also didn't watch as many seinen as I did prior to PMMM? IDK, lol Touniouk said: I'm never agreeing with anyone dissing on the OST, that shit is amazing to listen to even outside of the reals of the show and the individual tracks perfectly set the tone for the scenes they're in. Fair enough, I'd personally say good/bad music is far more subjective than good/bad anime any day, lol Touniouk said: I'm not annoyed with you in any way and I don't want to come across as aggressive or unfair, I'm not actually the hugest fan of the show myself, Madoka as a protagonist is a bit shit, the animation is straight up bad (it's great in Rebelion though), it's mad edgy (just look at who the fuck wrote the damn thing) and I'm probably too dumb to analyse all the "symbolism" or "psychological layers" but I'm tired of the conversation devolving into whether it's predictable or not as a measure of quality whenever the show is brought up, cause it's reductive and frankly boring. I'm glad you're not annoyed with me, and I'm not annoyed with you either! :) Don't worry about coming across as "aggressive or unfair" either, I thought everything you said was perfectly fair and reasonable! I think "a bit shit" is probably an understatement, lol. I'm not really sure what the animation in Rebellion was like, since by that point I wasn't even paying attention. I only watched it because I'd already completed the TV series (that said, I was paying attention to the story, which was basically just 1hr 50mins of pure fandom in-jokes and references capped off with one of the worst endings in film history). Yeah, Madoka's the only Gen Urobuchi work I've seen, but if all of his writing is as "edgy" as PMMM, then I'm probably gonna keep it that way, lol. Don't worry about analyzing the symbolism. In my experience, I've generally found that symbolism is mainly just a trick bad writers use to disguise how bad the rest of their writing (outside of crafting symbolism) is. And I say that as an aspiring writer who loves putting an overabundance of symbolism in my own works, lol I'm not necessarily claiming that's the case with Madoka Magica specifically, since I'm not familiar with the story of Faust (aside from that I know it exists), and that's where most of PMMM's symbolism is drawn from IIRC. Considering that the ONLY thing I care about when watching entertainment is the writing (including story, characters and humor where applicable) it's kinda hard for me not to measure any work's quality by its predictability, since I'm generally not fond of predictable stories. That said, plot twists that come out of practically nowhere are equally annoying to me. It's hard to find a perfect balance between making sure a twist doesn't come out of nowhere, while also making sure that you don't make it too easy to predict, lol (both of those being factors that I personally feel Madoka failed at so poorly that it negatively impacted my own personal enjoyment of the series. That said, I FULLY UNDERSTAND why others wouldn't be bothered, especially if they really liked the direction, soundtrack, characters, etc or they simply didn't find the twists too predictable like I did) |
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| @Kii_Ibarra Alright, correct me if I'm wrong because to be completely honest I don't actually remember the specifics of the story but is that really how the show ends? I thought Witches were kinda like an inevitability and the series ended by having Madoka's sacrifice not actually do anything cause the word will just had replacement witches after that. It's funny that you agree with my take on Madoka as a protagonist because just above I have someone claiming that she's just misunderstood (and therefore good I suppose), I guess you can take it up with them if you want clashing ideas. I don't think saying Homura's twist comes out of nowhere is fair, not only is she aware of future events and knows things that she realistically shouldn't (like where the infirmary was in ep 1 or where Madoka is at pretty much any given time to name a few) she also battles by magically teleporting to different spots DIO style. Just this should be enough to figure out at least part of what's up with her. It's as you said, balancing a twist is hard, because different viewers will have different histories with media, someone who has seen other time travel twists in. the past will recognise elements of foreshadowing that PMMM uses. |
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| I personally love the the change of tone the show has after ep 3, the animation and stylistic choices are absolutely beautiful, moreover the message about not losing hope in front of great despair is very inspiring. Plus, the exploration of the characters' psyche is incredible. |
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| A great example of deconstruction of genre or trope and Gen Sensei's great writing. |
Dick_Rogers said: To just fix everything at the end kind of invalidated what they went through. That's an interesting take, I don't believe everything is resolved at the end, however. Sayaka still dies, MGs are still fighting to the death; and in a bit of cruel irony, Homura's situation is no different from the first time loop. She failed to save Madoka. In the end, as grand as her wish was, Madoka gave her life to fix one small thing in the system. Her wish was an affirmation of hope, the hope of MGs that their best intentions don't get turned on their head, that they won't undo all the good they hoped to achieve. |
| For me - Miki Sayaka. Imo she is meant to represent a cliche, stereotypical protagonist. She's idealistic and has an optimistic and happy-go-lucky personality. She strives for justice and has moral standards, and just look at her costume - blue color scheme, cape, and her weapon is a classic sword. In most works of fiction, such characters are the protagonists who are constantly rewarded and ultimately attain success despite oftentimes making moral but irrational, detrimental decisions, and I think honestly that's pretty dumb. Life doesn't work out that way, and people shouldn't expect it to. "Good" people get screwed for being "good" all the time, and personally I think karma is a load of bs. That's reality imo, and I think there should be more representations of such in fiction. |
  but you can become stronger... ...でもつよくなれるよ |
Dick_Rogers said: Not sure if I agree with you on how they "fixed everything" at the end, but regardless you may want to check out Madoka Movie 3, which extends past the TV show. Personally I think the movie has a number of a problems, but you might appreciate the ending more.Because it's good. Tbh I thought the ending kind of fell on its face tho. It felt sort of deus ex machina. I thought it would've been cool if madoka wished that Homura couldn't time travel any more, clapped the witch then died. That way she still sacrifices herself but Homura gets a more bittersweet resolution, freed from the loop but losing her reason for living(pretty much). After the fatalistic tone of everything preceding it the ending felt a little tonally jarring. To just fix everything at the end kind of invalidated what they went through. |
but you can become stronger... ...でもつよくなれるよ |
Dick_Rogers said: Fixed everything might be a bit strong. She definitely made things a lot better. Anime does the main character transcending reality thing a lot. It works in things like [realised was spoilers] that are focused on what it means to be alive/sentient. Madoka was more character driven for me than philosophical. Madoka becoming Buddha at the end wasn't really in keeping to the themes of trauma and grief the show was rooted in before hand. Everything beforehand inspects the human condition. Yeah there's magic but it's like a plot device to explore grief(seeds). In the end nobody even remembered losing Madoka except Homura and she couldn't even really comprehend the magnitude of her loss. Personally, I was least interested in Madoka and Homura, probably because like you said, I considered them more character-driven rather than philosophical. Sayaka and Sakura were way more symbolic, and Mami a bit more too (although obviously her screentime was a big limitation). But I agree with Madoka making things a lot better in the end - she literally rewrote everything that happened. I would've preferred a darker ending, so in that way I like Movie 3 more (sorry, sort of a spoiler but you were probably expecting it). Also I think you could probably write out the spoilers here. I'm assuming everyone here has the seen the show, or you could add a spoiler box if you want. I gave Madoka a 10/10, but my 10/10s don't mean the show is flawless. I think Madoka actually has some pretty big plot holes, but I really liked the ideas and symbolism they played with in the show, and stylistically (visual, audio) it was pretty cool. Not trying to convince you that Madoka is a masterpiece or anything, just explaining how I value it. |
but you can become stronger... ...でもつよくなれるよ |
TeeRaySays said: ArcaneEdge said: Extremely tightly written with incredibly strong theming & allegories in just 12 eps with a lot of emotionally wrecking scenes & a great human study. On top of having beautiful art/animation it makes for one of my favourites. Love this answer . Definitely gonna refer to this when people ask what i liked about it On top of that it might have the highest rewatch worth of all the anime ever existed. Not only because it really good, but also ratio of good/episode is off the charts. |
 |
| Same here. I came across this show in a "subvert expectations" thread and decided to check it out and it offered me nothing creative or particular both in the execution and characters writting. It's just "ooooh this show about magical grills is actually dark and edgy wooahh", nothing more. I'm amazed how this kind of shows get the "classic" label easily. |
  "I can't trust a website where csm is rated higher than hxh"- Akira Toriyama  |
Touniouk said: @Kii_Ibarra You're supposed to know the gist of what's gonna happen, that's the point of foreshadowing. Initially I thought the "the only appeal is the ep3 plot twist" argument was just something haters were throwing around to try and discredit the show (the same way people say the only good thing about Your name/Demon Slayer/JJK is the animation) but turns out now even the fans are like "hey this show might seem like the typical cutesie magical girl show but turns out it isn't". I don't think the point of the show was to completely shock the viewer with one tone shift and then fuck about for 10 episodes, it's presented in a cutesie kinda magical way at first (still with a strong layer of darkness lurking) to show what kind of story the characters are expecting to live. The characters don't know what they're getting into but the viewer knows, that's how you build anticipation and a sense of dread. You're supposed to know that being a magical girl isn't fun and games and that Kyuubey is up to no good, the question is when will they realise it, what will happen and why is Kyuubey trying so hard to coerce Madoka specifically into it. I think that's why people call it a "deconstruction" (or at least they used to), Madoka is a "chosen one" protagonist, except she's only the chosen one because of the deliberate actions of other characters so there's a clear, plot relevant reason for her to be this way, basically in "real life" there's no such thing as a "chosen one". The same way there's a clear in universe reason for magical girls to exists, it's not the cutesie escapism fun that the characters think it is, this is real life and we're luring young girls into a system of exploitation (hey doesn't that sound like real life idols/actresses). In that say theme, there's a monkey's paw element to all of their wishes. I agree that a lot of praise Madoka get for standing out is probably undeserved and comes from the fact that most Madoka watchers don't actually know a lot about Magical girls anime in general, you see that all the time. People calling OPM some kind of amazing parody of battle shounen despite not knowing a lot about battle shounen as a genre, or people praising the new shows like MHA, JJK or Demon Slayer for being deep or complex when compared to their preconceived notions of the genre or previous shows of that genre, it kinda has the same energy as my mom saying "rap music sucks, all they talk about is bitches and money" which just demonstrates a lack of knowledge and no actual criticism, but whatever, this whole paragraph is a shitty tangent. Also, yeah the animation is quite bad for the most part, but the show has a strong visual presentation (except for all the bits where the characters go off model) which compensates for it for some viewers but I'm never agreeing with anyone dissing on the OST, that shit is amazing to listen to even outside of the reals of the show and the individual tracks perfectly set the tone for the scenes they're in. I'm not annoyed with you in any way and I don't want to come across as aggressive or unfair, I'm not actually the hugest fan of the show myself, Madoka as a protagonist is a bit shit, the animation is straight up bad (it's great in Rebelion though), it's mad edgy (just look at who the fuck wrote the damn thing) and I'm probably too dumb to analyse all the "symbolism" or "psychological layers" but I'm tired of the conversation devolving into whether it's predictable or not as a measure of quality whenever the show is brought up, cause it's reductive and frankly boring. I couldn't agree more except for the bad animation part. The original sery has realy inconsistant animation, but there's always the recap movie that I highly recommend to watch instead of the original. |
| “I won’t rely on anyone anymore. I don’t care if no one understands.” – Homura Akemi |
| The same reason Evangelion is praised: people that have actively avoided those genres (mecha for Eva and mahou shoujo for Madoka) in their adult lives for no reason whatsoever besides prejudice (usually based on those 2/3 hyper-famous titles they used to watch as kids on tv) watch them for their "deconstrution and subversion" (that isn't actually a thing) and like them, then instead of simply eliminating that prejudice they convince themselves they are "different from the others". I consider both Eva and Madoka great shows btw, it's not the anime or the author's fault |
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