RedaJaNai said: Lollo36 said: By streaming/torrenting anime illegally instead of watching it on Crunchy/Funi/whatever, you're actively harming the industry by giving it less money, and by promoting/giving exposure/views to illegal platforms that don't benefit the actual creators. The meme that "the west doesn't matter" is a thing of the past, anime creators are getting more and more interested in what would appeal to us, they ask about it at every Con they go to, because domestic disc sales are dropping, while licensing fees and revenue numbers from the west are growing (see the reasons for Crunchy and Funi's deal, over at ANN's answerman). Wrong. I watch all my shows illegaly but if I was literally forced to pay for anime then I'd watch way, way less shows. I wouldn't pay anyway. This kind of reasoning is akin to the one law enforcement officers use when they seize a bunch of counterfeited Rolex watches and go all like 'This cost Rolex tens of thousands of dollars!". Well, no. Guess what, either I'd buy a cheap ass fake Rolex watch or I wouldn't buy any at all. It's the exact same outcome for Rolex at the end of the day. Same for anime. I'd never pay for anime anyway. Nothing you said contradicts what I said. You decided that you won't pay for anime, and that's a decision that harms the industry, compared to the other choice, aka paying for anime. Is it that hard to grasp? lasterrending said: I would be in 100% agreement with everything you said, if a simple 1 to 1 comparison could be made of the legal vs. illegal streaming sites. All else being equal, I'd rather watch on the legal sites. But not all else is equal. There's a HUGE difference between the legal and illegal sites. The illegal sites have a back catalogue. The legal sites don't. Admittedly I haven't been on Crunchyroll in years so I don't know for sure, but I thought it only has recent episodes. If I want to watch a show from 5 years ago there, I'm out of luck. In that case, the illegal sites do NOT compete with Crunchyroll. Most of what's on those sites is not available on Crunchyroll, which is kind of the opposite of competition. As far as harming the industry, you can't count lost ad revenue when I watch a show on an illegal site if the legal sites don't even have a way for me to give them that ad revenue in the first place. Point me to a site where I can watch old shows legally for free, and I'll be happy to abandon the illegal sites, assuming it's convenient enough. I would love to be able to watch all my shows legally. I just don't feel any guilt about getting what I want illegitimately when the legitimate channels don't even offer it. IF THERE'S NO WAY TO STREAM THAT ANIME LEGALLY, THEN IT'S OK TO STREAM IT ILLEGALLY DUH Who told you otherwise? Like... what did you think I was talking about? Kissanime and other streaming sites DO compete with the legal ones, because they get all the new shows, which are the ones that get BY FAR the most money and exposure right now. (Also, Crunchy and Funi have an extensive backlog) |
 |
Lollo36 said: While that is true, it doesn't have the anime that I want to watch.(Also, Crunchy and Funi have an extensive backlog) |
Please learn about cel animation and its technical process. Learn how special effects and backlighting were done without computers. |
2good4nami said: They just destroy their own industry by pricing their BDs so high. BDs and DVDs are extinct anyway. Only USA and Japan still use them. I don't know anyone who still relies on optical media. I don't even own a player since 2008. Japan needs a paid download service that has all produced anime in existence in non-DRM video format. Then I'd throw more money at them than they can count. But I don't rent my entertainment, especially not when licensing fucks want to pretend 70% of anime doesn't exist when they see I'm from Scandinavia. Fuck them. |
 |
| What I'm certain is cartoon industry doesn't mainly rely on the legal streaming like crunchycrap but more on the exposure of their works because exposure and publicity would ensue great a franchise and fanbase. Having a great fanbase would let you produce merchandise (mostly overpriced) but who cares fanatics would buy anything from their favorite show. Ergo, reducing exposure due to cessation of eminent online piracy would give more negative effect to the producer, actually. Y'all who think that piracy is bad because they stole one's effort and possible revenue, well goody good good as if they rely on how much people watch legally. What's bad in online piracy? Nope, this is digital era folks, online pirates don't steal digital things. |
JomsSep 17, 2016 4:59 AM
| Honestly there's not enough seeders, people love to leech. |
 |
| Watching pirates come up with excuses to justify why it's okay that they pirate anime is hilarious. I have more respect for the people who can just up and admit they pirate because they're cheap bastards and acknowledge it's wrong. Unless the show in question is not available legally in your country or has been out of print making DVDs absurdly expensive and hard to find, there really is no excuse. And you can stick your fingers in your ears and go "LA LA LA LA" all you want when people say it but, yes, you are actively hurting the industry you supposedly care about. A subscription to Crunchyroll is not expensive. It's really not. A monthly subscription to Crunchyroll costs less than a meal at a Taco Bell. Legally watching anime has never been cheaper or easier (in the US at least, I can't speak for other countries). But this is a waste of time because the pirates that make excuses like it's okay to pirate because they bought a figure at a con that one time will just keep making excuses. So the whole thing has just become one big echo chamber on each side. But if you're going to use KissAnime and sites like it, please use uBlock Origin to block the ads so at the very least they aren't making money off stolen anime. |
Rei366 said: 2good4nami said: What's bad in online piracy? It's not like people steal their products. What? XD Since when consuming something without any fee is promotion? It's called steal. As if online pirates that consume their work are reducing their productions. Digital products cannot be reduced. They can reproduce virtually infinite number of their product without required resources because it's digital, and if others produce their work without consent (or so you say, illegally) the number of their possible production is not lessened, hence not 'stolen'. The fall of DVD era is caused not by the pirates, but by the advent of the digital era itself. I'm sure most of the people won't buy themselves physical copies now unless for collection purposes. SgtScyther said: Watching pirates come up with excuses to justify why it's okay that they pirate anime is hilarious. I have more respect for the people who can just up and admit they pirate because they're cheap bastards and acknowledge it's wrong. By laws it is bad to pirate things, but then as we can see, the fruits of piracy is beneficial than what it was supposed to be. And one thing, debasing online pirates by justifying that paying is good while pirating is bad for it is not paying is an evidence that you are the ideal consumer the producers are longing for. Ergo, Pirates are not doing excuses on doing bad things because they do not regard laws as the absolute standard for morality. I think that's the part you are failing. This observation is not an excuse, but a question on the morality of online piracy. |
JomsSep 18, 2016 4:09 AM
| @Rei366 Based on my definitions, stealing is just what I just said, particularly referred this: steal: to take (something that does not belong to you) in a way that is wrong or illegal 'take' is a physical action that lets you hold a property of someone, while depriving someone of it. If it's deemed wrongly and illegal, it will be taken as theft. In online piracy, this is not the case, so I return to my former argument. The reason why people deem piracy as wrong is because possible legal consumers are deterred to pay legally because of the presence of illegal accesses to a certain particular, thus a deprivation of possible revenue. So far regarding digital piracy it covers not the 'stealing' which I recently defined, because the producers are not harmed by having their possible revenues reduced, because their supply are infinite, and the assumption of their revenues are only measured at the quantity of the possible consumer and their demands. In other words, their supply is limitless; and there is no way they are certain that their revenues would be deprived. In this case, the semantics regarding the act of stealing is debatable, whether should it must deprive one's property, or could be synonymous to what they call 'infringement of copyright'. I am still on the side of online piracy for I cannot see a thing on it that would ensue harm on an industry. |
Rei366 said: Anyway, all I can see is that a lot of people here are fondly in love with their rethoric only to justify that the opposition is wrong, as if this was a way to justify they are right.. What does it imply? The only reason why piracy is deemed immoral is because it is related to thievery. If one would argue that online piracy does not commit theft, then it should be an act of refutation to the accusation. The presence of innocence cannot be proven unless the accusations are refuted, and just right now I refuted your claim that online piracy is theft. |
| @Rei366 ohh, I'm not mad at all, and now I'm certain that you've been suffering from semantics. theft: an act of stealing steal: to take (something that does not belong to you) in a way that is wrong or illegal so then, to steal and theft is synonymous, after all. :D your definition of stealing should be called 'using someone's property without consent' and is a part on property laws if I'm right. It is deemed illegal but not immoral. In my understanding, you argue that online piracy is bad because it 'steal' properties, which is a terrible word to use because it does not deprive the proprietor of any property. I'm sorry if you are having a hard time reading on English. Well, it is fun that I have taught you some lessons at least :> |
JomsSep 18, 2016 6:11 AM
Rei366 said: @Joms I see, thank you. Not trying to excuse my mistake but "to take" was a synonym of "to appropriate" here. Too many means for this word in french. XD Appropriate (to take something for self illegally) is apparently synonymous to stealing (to take something illegally in English. What could be the French term on the definition you had presented recently? Because I don't have any idea on what is the word connoting 'using other properties illegally and/or without consent' |
| @Rei366 I mean I am asking if there is a single word to connote the whole definition. |
| It does more harm than good. The people who pirate anime should put themselves in the shoes of those who work hard day and night at the studios that produce anime they watch. |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
SwatKat1990 said: It does more harm than good. The people who pirate anime should put themselves in the shoes of those who work hard day and night at the studios that produce anime they watch. I'm terribly sure that those workers have the passion to make their products even with the lowest compensation that they are to get. Given that piracy is present or not, the workers would still have low income because the anime industry is generally shit in terms of income. If I am a worker I would be rather be pleased that many viewers watch my work illegally and share it to others for publicity, than to have no viewers at all because of inaccessibility. It's more like a pride to me than money. After all, producers are the ones who getting pain here, not the workers! |
| I wont pay for it unless it's a movie. |
| look at the straw hat pirates ..they're good people so piracy doesn't have to be bad right?? I was just being sarcastic this is the dumbest thing I have ever said but the truth is some people actually need Piracy , they don't have any other option |
 |
| People claiming that refusing to pay for anime will in no way harm the industry... what kind of argument is that. Anime costs money to make, how hard is it to understand that they need to charge for the product. |
Tichey said: People claiming that refusing to pay for anime will in no way harm the industry... what kind of argument is that. Anime costs money to make, how hard is it to understand that they need to charge for the product. The failure in your arguments is that you thought they do not earn revenues if they are being pirated but fact is they earn infinitesimal profit over legal streaming whereas in international shipping of merchandise they earn shitloads of money. How could they sell their franchise well without international exposure? Online streams especially kissanime are helping them make it. |
Tichey said: People claiming that refusing to pay for anime will in no way harm the industry... what kind of argument is that. Anime costs money to make, how hard is it to understand that they need to charge for the product. your crunchyroll subscription doesnt mean shit to them my manga collection during childhood probably supported them way more |
Cross  AngeHey guys check my profile for current airing season anime recommendation (guaranteed best taste) |
| Yeah I'm sure BDs sell so little because they're so expensive 2 episodes of the second season of To Love-Ru were around $68 ...on DVD, not even Blu-Ray... But it's not really a bad thing A lot of people truly can't afford to buy anime box sets or streaming subscriptions, so piracy is actually a good thing And I watch anime illegally, then if I think it's worth buying, I'll buy it. It's help me not to waste money. |
| The internet is there, use it. If I find a $100 on the street, u can be sure I won't go looking for the fucking owner. How does ads bother ppl... I really hate commercials on yt! I rather watch shit anime. |
| Even a song set at $1, and offer a free listening online, the percentage of people who both listen and buy is much lower than 100%. While price does matter, that's not the only problem. People got it for free then it's unlikely they will spend to get it again. |
| Alot of people don't 1. have the money to buy the pirated work (usually don't have *money* at all) or 2. it isn't available in their country (we are on a Japanese cartoon website so). So in that case, it doesn't really change anything. But obviously, the issue is they don't get money. And I don't see the point in pretending you're doing anything helpful by pirating if/when you're not going to buy it, regardless of whether or not you can't. But there's the third category, and I do believe most people who pirate fit into it, they buy it eventually. But I don't know if that applies to anime, since they usually can't buy it. |
ashfrliebertSep 18, 2016 3:58 PM
| ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ |
| Legality =/= morality It's bad because businesses such as anime production and distribution rely on customers paying them money for them to be able to continue doing their jobs. However, it's not bad on a personal level because your contribution is just a drop in the bucket and won't make a difference. You are better off pirating and using that money to bring yourself happiness. |
Isaidlunch said: Legality =/= morality It's bad because businesses such as anime production and distribution rely on customers paying them money for them to be able to continue doing their jobs. However, it's not bad on a personal level because your contribution is just a drop in the bucket and won't make a difference. You are better off pirating and using that money to bring yourself happiness. Let's ignore the numerous low or no cost options for legal viewing (remember, folks, Crunchyroll is almost entirely free with ads) and that the minuscule size of the western anime industry means that "drop in the bucket" is considerably bigger than something like music piracy. The "drop in the bucket" argument is flawed, at best. Let's say that we have the metaphoric bucket and that all viewers are a drop in that bucket. Pirates are a drop of poison, while legal buyers and viewers are drops of water. A drop of poison here and there aren't going to do much of anything. However, what if a significant percentage of the drops are poison? The water is contaminated and will kill anyone who tries to drink it. So when the anime industry drinks from the metaphoric bucket, with the amount of poison in it, then I think you can draw your own conclusions. Looking at Nyaatorrents, the newest episode of Re:Zero (episode 25 as of this typing), which I think I am safe in saying is the most popular show airing right now, the number of downloads between all three Horriblesubs releases totals 58702 as of this typing. And this isn't counting other pirated releases, reuploads by other users, shares between local friends and so on and so forth. I imagine similar download numbers for the rest of the series. I can't find view counts for Crunchyroll, but they have 700,000 or so paid subscribers. Obviously this isn't counting free viewers watching with ads, but seeing as free users have to wait a week for a new episode, only subscribers have access to the episode I'm referring to as of this typing. If every single subscriber were to watch this episode, which is never going to happen, that means about eight percent of the combined total of subscriber views and illegal downloads (rounded to 759,000) of this episode were illegal downloads. I would wager that a generous estimate of the actual percentage of pirate downloads compared to Crunchyroll subscriber views is closer to 10 percent. Would you drink a glass of water that is 10% poison? Why do you expect the anime industry to? EDIT: I am aware of region locking and I am completely opposed to it. I fully sympathize and don't blame anyone for pirating content that literally has no legal option in your region. Obviously my argument does not take this into account, but I don't have 100% hard numbers regardless, so my point is not meant to be a be-all, end all, anyway. There are also aspects like group viewing (for the record, this isn't piracy by common sense, but it IS piracy by the legal definition because copyright law is a fucking mess in many ways) and non-paying Crunchyroll users that leave Ad-Block on, both intentionally and unintentionally. Piracy is a rather complex issue with a hell of a lot of technicalities and what-ifs. Side note: anyone who thinks Crunchyroll isn't supporting the industry: You are objectively wrong. |
KermomancerSep 18, 2016 10:20 PM
| I see people blame pirating for why companies like Streamline Pictures, Geneon Entertainment USA, Urban Vision, Tokyo Pop, Bandai Entertainment, Central Park Media and ADV Films |
Cloud3514 said: Isaidlunch said: Legality =/= morality It's bad because businesses such as anime production and distribution rely on customers paying them money for them to be able to continue doing their jobs. However, it's not bad on a personal level because your contribution is just a drop in the bucket and won't make a difference. You are better off pirating and using that money to bring yourself happiness. Let's ignore the numerous low or no cost options for legal viewing (remember, folks, Crunchyroll is almost entirely free with ads) and that the minuscule size of the western anime industry means that "drop in the bucket" is considerably bigger than something like music piracy. The "drop in the bucket" argument is flawed, at best. Let's say that we have the metaphoric bucket and that all viewers are a drop in that bucket. Pirates are a drop of poison, while legal buyers and viewers are drops of water. A drop of poison here and there aren't going to do much of anything. However, what if a significant percentage of the drops are poison? The water is contaminated and will kill anyone who tries to drink it. So when the anime industry drinks from the metaphoric bucket, with the amount of poison in it, then I think you can draw your own conclusions. Looking at Nyaatorrents, the newest episode of Re:Zero (episode 25 as of this typing), which I think I am safe in saying is the most popular show airing right now, the number of downloads between all three Horriblesubs releases totals 58702 as of this typing. And this isn't counting other pirated releases, reuploads by other users, shares between local friends and so on and so forth. I imagine similar download numbers for the rest of the series. I can't find view counts for Crunchyroll, but they have 700,000 or so paid subscribers. Obviously this isn't counting free viewers watching with ads, but seeing as free users have to wait a week for a new episode, only subscribers have access to the episode I'm referring to as of this typing. If every single subscriber were to watch this episode, which is never going to happen, that means about eight percent of the combined total of subscriber views and illegal downloads (rounded to 759,000) of this episode were illegal downloads. I would wager that a generous estimate of the actual percentage of pirate downloads compared to Crunchyroll subscriber views is closer to 10 percent. Would you drink a glass of water that is 10% poison? Why do you expect the anime industry to? EDIT: I am aware of region locking and I am completely opposed to it. I fully sympathize and don't blame anyone for pirating content that literally has no legal option in your region. Obviously my argument does not take this into account, but I don't have 100% hard numbers regardless, so my point is not meant to be a be-all, end all, anyway. There are also aspects like group viewing (for the record, this isn't piracy by common sense, but it IS piracy by the legal definition because copyright law is a fucking mess in many ways) and non-paying Crunchyroll users that leave Ad-Block on, both intentionally and unintentionally. Piracy is a rather complex issue with a hell of a lot of technicalities and what-ifs. Side note: anyone who thinks Crunchyroll isn't supporting the industry: You are objectively wrong. I don't think the argument is flawed, it's just a difficult argument to have especially on an internet forum. If I choose to pirate instead of buying a Crunchyroll sub then that isn't going to change anything for them. No one at Crunchyroll is going to starve because they made $7 less. My decision doesn't affect anyone else's decision either, so in the end I'm only responsible for their loss of $7, which is inconsequential for them and would make me happier since I could buy a nice slice of cake by doing that. The only problem with it is when everyone thinks that way, but again, a single person's decision has no influence on that. |
Isaidlunch said: I don't think the argument is flawed, it's just a difficult argument to have especially on an internet forum. If I choose to pirate instead of buying a Crunchyroll sub then that isn't going to change anything for them. No one at Crunchyroll is going to starve because they made $7 less. My decision doesn't affect anyone else's decision either, so in the end I'm only responsible for their loss of $7, which is inconsequential for them and would make me happier since I could buy a nice slice of cake by doing that. The only problem with it is when everyone thinks that way, but again, a single person's decision has no influence on that. 1: If you think $7 a month is expensive, you're just cheap. Seriously. You're a cheap asshole. 2: Again, Crunchyroll is free with ads. If two minutes of ads is too much to ask, then you're just lazy. 3: Again, a single person being too cheap to pay $7 a month isn't going hurt, but, as I demonstrated, AT LEAST 8% of views/downloads are from Nyaatorrents, while I would estimate that the actual piracy rate is closer to at least 10%. I ask again: Why do expect the anime industry to drink from a bucket that is 10% poison? |
KermomancerSep 19, 2016 1:55 AM
| It is actually nice to lend your friend your anime... that is a good enough reason to buy legal stuff. It also feels nostalgic of times when you literally could not pirate the stuff easily. So you either had to rend, buy, record off TV, or know a guy. If it didn't make people loads of money, I would see it the same as recording off TV... And if you could still actually lend it to a friend in a physical way. But it is just not the same. It doesn't have the same feeling. |
The anime community in a nutshell.  |
| I think you guys need a more accurate analogy. You draw a picture and you are selling said picture on a T-shirt. But someone steals that picture and puts it on a t-shirt and is now selling it too. But you are going "wait, I am not paying these people anything" actually you are if you use sites like kiss anime. They have ads everywhere and get lots of money from that. So I guess it is more like they give people a free t-shirt with your art on it that you sell that they stole in exchange for doing one of those surveys that actually gain companies lots of money for having your information. You could say they merely copied your art... but really... they are cutting into your profit and you deserve a slice of that pie! |
| The anime community in a nutshell. |
WeepingNymph said: Yeah I'm sure BDs sell so little because they're so expensive 2 episodes of the second season of To Love-Ru were around $68 ...on DVD, not even Blu-Ray... But it's not really a bad thing A lot of people truly can't afford to buy anime box sets or streaming subscriptions, so piracy is actually a good thing And I watch anime illegally, then if I think it's worth buying, I'll buy it. It's help me not to waste money. But then there are shows like Death Note which are $16 a season. Or YYH for the bluray it is $18 last I checked. |
| The anime community in a nutshell. |
| The literal best time to be an anime fan was in 2004... DVDs were cheap, Manga was always in the discount bin... it was easy to get things to be brought over... then Youtube and everyone getting internet happened and suddenly people stopped BUYING ANIME. omg. Now anime is more expensive. ADV and Geneon went of of business. And Tokyopop moved out of the states. Central Park Media deserved to die though. XD Maybe you guys weren't around for the anime boom but I was. It was great time to be alive even in 2006... just some of the best shows of all time came out in 2006. |
Energetic-NovaSep 19, 2016 12:36 AM
| The anime community in a nutshell. |
| If you love anime, invest some in it. It ain't gonna produce itself xP But seriously Crunchyroll is getting better and better, and their subscription is fairly cheap (7$/month) you watch and support the anime industry. Might be a problem if you're outside of USA because of the restrictions, but I used free VPN on my mobile and PC to get past that. |
 "So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us." |
| Who wants to waste money for anime? We have kissanime and torrents so.. |
 |
Cloud3514 said: actually it is, if you are living in a country where the currency is very weak. $7 means a lot to me when its converted to my currency. not everyone live in the first world america where life is all good. i'm living in a country where almost everything is pirated (physical music, dvd & game stores are all pirated) there is no point for me to buy any visual entertainment legally because that would be stupid of me to do that when the way convenient alternatives are everywhereIsaidlunch said: I don't think the argument is flawed, it's just a difficult argument to have especially on an internet forum. If I choose to pirate instead of buying a Crunchyroll sub then that isn't going to change anything for them. No one at Crunchyroll is going to starve because they made $7 less. My decision doesn't affect anyone else's decision either, so in the end I'm only responsible for their loss of $7, which is inconsequential for them and would make me happier since I could buy a nice slice of cake by doing that. The only problem with it is when everyone thinks that way, but again, a single person's decision has no influence on that. 1: If you think $7 a month is expensive, you're just cheap. Seriously. You're a cheap asshole. 2: Again, Crunchyroll is free with ads. If two minutes of ads is too much to ask, then you're just lazy. 3: Again, a single person being too cheap to pay $7 a month isn't going hurt, but, as I demonstrated, AT LEAST 8% of views/downloads are from Nyaatorrents, while I would estimate that the actual piracy rate is closer to at least 10%. I ask again: Why do expect the anime industry to drink from a bucket that is 10% poison? for reference, if you americans and europeans only need 1 week of saving (less eating) to buy a video game, it takes me a month, way more if i want to buy ridiculously overpriced AAA games legally. where the pirated version is free to download (or 10 times cheaper than original if you go to physical store). it's obvious which choice I'd take. and just for reminder, japanese watch all anime for free on their television. why are moral highground people bitching when I also want to watch it for free just like those japanese people? |
GangsterCatSep 19, 2016 9:02 AM
Cross AngeHey guys check my profile for current airing season anime recommendation (guaranteed best taste) |
GangsterCat said: and just for reminder, japanese watch all anime for free on their television. why are moral highground people bitching when I also want to watch it for free just like those japanese people? Actually -- though I'm not completely sure -- Japanese would be paying to watch anime on their television. They would also be sitting through ads. So, free in a sense, but then again not really. Creators who make anime gain money from ads on television, as do all TV show creators. That's why Crunchyroll is free with ads, they're still making money from you watching the ads. Pirating sites, if they have adds, can get money for themselves, rather than, like Crunchyroll, give back to the anime community. |
 |
Animett said: GangsterCat said: and just for reminder, japanese watch all anime for free on their television. why are moral highground people bitching when I also want to watch it for free just like those japanese people? Actually -- though I'm not completely sure -- Japanese would be paying to watch anime on their television. They would also be sitting through ads. So, free in a sense, but then again not really. Creators who make anime gain money from ads on television, as do all TV show creators. That's why Crunchyroll is free with ads, they're still making money from you watching the ads. Pirating sites, if they have adds, can get money for themselves, rather than, like Crunchyroll, give back to the anime community. man, you really want to create excuse "japanese pay too! you need to pay as well!" huh? no, it's free. I probably paying more just by subscribing animax on my cable tv. no way i'm paying for what's originally free. DVD and bluray stuff is just for collector, not casual watcher. go ahead, buy it, just don't insist "immoral pirate" like me to do that. anime is by japanese, for japanese after all. who cares about foreigner money, it's not meant for us in the first place. |
Cross AngeHey guys check my profile for current airing season anime recommendation (guaranteed best taste) |
GangsterCat said: actually it is, if you are living in a country where the currency is very weak. $7 means a lot to me when its converted to my currency. not everyone live in the first world america where life is all good. i'm living in a country where almost everything is pirated (physical music, dvd & game stores are all pirated) there is no point for me to buy any visual entertainment legally because that would be stupid of me to do that when the way convenient alternatives are everywhere for reference, if you americans and europeans only need 1 week of saving (less eating) to buy a video game, it takes me a month, way more if i want to buy ridiculously overpriced AAA games legally. where the pirated version is free to download (or 10 times cheaper than original if you go to physical store). it's obvious which choice I'd take. If you look back through the whole conversation, you would notice the following sentences: "I am aware of region locking and I am completely opposed to it. I fully sympathize and don't blame anyone for pirating content that literally has no legal option in your region. Obviously my argument does not take this into account, but I don't have 100% hard numbers regardless, so my point is not meant to be a be-all, end all, anyway." "Piracy is a rather complex issue with a hell of a lot of technicalities and what-ifs." You're under this impression that I see piracy as a black and white issue with no legitimate reasons for people to do it. I have called no one "immoral" for pirating, especially if they have a good reason, such as content not being legally available in a certain region. I am no expert on the economics of anywhere, let alone less privileged parts of the world and I fully understand if your economic status means that US$7 is a significant amount of money. I get that my statement comes off as a blanket, but I stress that I was specifically referring to the person I was responding to. However, my second statement about watching with ads stands, as I'll explain. and just for reminder, japanese watch all anime for free on their television. why are moral highground people bitching when I also want to watch it for free just like those japanese people? GangsterCat said: man, you really want to create excuse "japanese pay too! you need to pay as well!" huh? no, it's free. I probably paying more just by subscribing animax on my cable tv. no way i'm paying for what's originally free. DVD and bluray stuff is just for collector, not casual watcher. go ahead, buy it, just don't insist "immoral pirate" like me to do that. How do think the "free" anime is paid for on Japanese TV? With ads and cable subscriptions. By assuming that it's all free, you're suggesting, granted likely unintentionally, that these shows are created in a vacuum where funding or profit are non-existent. TV stations are businesses. If they don't think they're going to get a return on their investment of airing a show, they're not going to pay money for the rights to air it. They get revenue to pay for their investment and try to make a profit by selling ad space. That's how the business model for TV works all around the world. So, at the end of the day, the end user watching anime on TV doesn't pay for the shows they're watching directly with money, but rather with their time spent watching ads, whose value is determined by ratings. The same with Crunchyroll. A free user has three caveats to watching for free: A week lag on most new episodes, 480p streams only and, most importantly, ads. Ads are how Crunchyroll makes money to pay for and profit from their investment of buying a license to distribute the shows they have. anime is by japanese, for japanese after all. who cares about foreigner money, it's not meant for us in the first place. This is the most baseless and, frankly, idiotic pro-piracy argument you can make. Who cares about money from non-Japanese anime viewers? The production studios. The animators. The voice actors. Literally everyone who wants the shows they have invested in creating to succeed. As I pointed out earlier, Crunchyroll has about 700,000 paid subscribers. They also have millions of free users who watch with ads. This is a hell of a lot of money we're talking about coming from ONE non-Japanese source, not to mention if we include FUNimation, Daisuke, Netflix and TV sources like Toonami. Not only are you arguing that the production studios shouldn't care about any of these revenue sources, you're showing that you have no idea how legal viewing benefits the industry and, more importantly, the end user. I've used the following examples multiple times, but they are important examples of why the western fanbase matters: The Big O only got a second season because of fantastic ratings on western TV. IGPX and Space Dandy were partially funded by Williams Street Productions (AKA, Toonami and Adult Swim) and aired in English first. FUNimation has actually gotten the rights to what they call "Broadcast Dubs," which are simulcasted English dubs. Tamashii Nations only continues to make SH Figuarts of Dragon Ball characters because they sell well in the west. Similarly, the Tiger and Bunny line of Figuarts I believe also sold better in the west than in Japan. Tamashii Nations also works with their western distributor (Bluefin) to market most Super Sentai products as Power Rangers products for seasons that have been adapted into Power Rangers because western fans are more familiar with Power Rangers than Super Sentai. If you honestly expect me to believe that piracy is OK because anime is "by Japanese, for Japanese," then I've got a wonderful bridge in Brooklyn you might be interested in. |
KermomancerSep 19, 2016 1:01 PM
| If you don't have money to buy the stuff then that's fine. If you make 5 figures or more you should be supporting the people creating your hobby. but it shouldn't be illegal. |
| I don't care. |
| The same thing as what's best in life. Crush your enemies. See them driven before you. Hear the lamentations of their women. |
| Be thankful for the wisdom granted to you. |
Rei366 said: 2good4nami said: What's bad in online piracy? It's not like people steal their products. What? XD Since when consuming something without any fee is promotion? It's called steal. Besides, the old argumentation of the "promotion" made by illegal online copies doesn't work. If this was really the case, then there would have been no fall of the western anime DVD market back in the mid 2000 since we were still in the fansub golden era. Besides, back then, this "proof" was used more decently because there was a delay of 12-18 months in the fastest cases to get a series in our shops. It still didn't incite people to buy anyway. edit: of course, nowadays you also litterally steal your own enterprises work (the work of the official streaming provider whose translation and video file was robbed) Because the definition of theft is taking while the definition of piracy is copying. |
Rei366 said: @Drunk_Samurai Please, I beg you. I Went through hell once with the previous guy, I won't do it again. I'll still write this though: infringement of copyright is a theft, you're making someone's intellectual property yours. + all the other elements. Theft was never only: robbing something + preventing the owner of using it. I even referenced the meanings I used. ANYWAY, ALL MY EXCUSES TO PEOPLE PRESENT HERE. I NEVER SAID IT WAS BAD TO DO ANYTHING WE DO. I SIMPLY STATED AN OBVIOUS THING. Sounds like a personal problem then. Its common sense that taking and copying are two completely different things. |
| I can summarize it all in two words: No Rum |
| Be thankful for the wisdom granted to you. |
More topics from this board
» Why male characters tend to have more interesting personalities than female characters?Alpha_1_Zero - Today |
11 |
by Alpha_1_Zero
»»
7 minutes ago |
|
Poll: » What's with all the hate from the MAL community towards Anitubers? ( 1 2 )Alpha_1_Zero - Yesterday |
56 |
by Alpha_1_Zero
»»
9 minutes ago |
|
Sticky: » AWC 2024 Anime Watching Challenge - Sign-Up (Open Until December 10th) ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )AWC_mod - Jan 1 |
984 |
by subahokke
»»
10 minutes ago |
|
» ❄️ Anime Winter 2024 Male Characters Tournament ( 1 2 3 4 5 )ISeeLifePeople - Apr 14 |
238 |
by ISeeLifePeople
»»
10 minutes ago |
|
» I made a fake anime seasonal chart using AI. Which of these sounds interesting to you? ( 1 2 3 )FFandMMfan - Apr 13 |
130 |
by Punkero
»»
14 minutes ago |