Is GATE partially politically motivated?

Offline

Jan 2012

1833

In all seriousness though that does throw a bit of a spanner in the works. The re-militarisation of Japan was on the agenda before 2006 though. It just wasn't as prevalent as now when it's progressed to the point where they think they can amend Japans constitution.

Sep 8, 2015 9:35 AM

Offline

Jul 2013

225

I don't think it is deliberately propaganda, or that the sponsorship from WB has anything to do with it, but I do think that the author definetly agrees with Abe.

Sep 8, 2015 9:36 AM

Offline

Mar 2011

25073

no its not

"If you tremble with indignation at every injustice, then you are a comrade of mine"

When the union's inspiration through the workers' blood shall run
There can be no power greater anywhere beneath the sun
Yet what force on earth is weaker than the feeble strength of one
For the Union makes us strong

Sep 8, 2015 12:52 PM

darboux

Offline

Jun 2015

162

well from wikipedia some stuff about article 9 :

''The different views can be clearly organized into four categories:

-The current pacifists believe in maintaining Article 9 and claim the SDF is unconstitutional, and would like to detach Japan from international wars.
-The mercantilists have divided opinions about Article 9 although the interpretation is broadened to include the SDF, and believe that the SDF’s role should be retained to activities related to the United Nations and for non-combat purposes. They advocate minimal defense spending, and emphasize economic growth.
-The normalists “call for incremental armament for national defense and accept using military force to maintain international peace and security”. They support the revision of Article 9 to include a clause explaining the existence and function of the SDF.
-The nationalists assert that Japan should remilitarize and build nuclear capabilities in order to regain pride and independence. They also advocate revision of Article 9 to promote armament.''

Also :''In July 2014, Japan's government approved a reinterpretation of this article despite concerns and disapproval from its neighbors. This reinterpretation would allow Japan to exercise the right of "collective self defense" and exercise military action if one of its allies were to be attacked. It is considered by some parties as illegitimate, posing a serious danger to Japan’s democracy since the Prime Minister circumvented the constitutional amendment procedure, dictating a radical change to the meaning of fundamental principles in the Constitution by way of Cabinet fiat without Diet debate, vote, or public approval.''

Official translation of it is : ''ARTICLE 9. Aspiring sincerely to an international peace based on justice and order, the Japanese people forever renounce war as a sovereign right of the nation and the threat or use of force as means of settling international disputes.
(2) To accomplish the aim of the preceding paragraph, land, sea, and air forces, as well as other war potential, will never be maintained. The right of belligerency of the state will not be recognized.''

Also there is something called The 2010 Senkaku Boat Collision Incident. Which was considered a ''diplomatic'' loss for Japanese in a way.And think if i remember right from the news there was alot of talk in japan about changing the military and article 9 at that time as well.So if the novel was made around that time is not so impossible.

Think the Mahouka anime or sth like this (dun remember how it was called) wasnt a coincidence that came out at that time as well....the novel i think was 2011 or sth few months after this incident happened heh.(the anime came out at 2014 July when stuff about art 9 same month again lol coincidence i guess)

Not everything is as innocent as it looks^^.

darbouxSep 8, 2015 12:59 PM

Sep 8, 2015 4:07 PM

Jerkhov

Offline

Jun 2014

5365

Absolutely, complete Japanese right wing garbage.

Not about current government, but on Japan's policies towards foreign nations.

Sep 8, 2015 5:03 PM

rladls717

Offline

Jul 2011

378

On episode 10 Itami said to shoot the enemy that are targeting the guests.
Whoever the enemies are, I think I was supposed to be more encourage to fight back or makes me wants to fight.

Aside from political motivations, it does not change the fact that it is about encouraging people to fight with dangerous weapons, take away lives with it, even though we are scared of using the weapons, and to overcome it someday.

But then again, I'm so sad that when Itami said that to shoot them not because he is wrong, but it has to be the grave situation.
It makes me wonder if there's any other peaceful solutions than using weapons to kill.

Sep 8, 2015 5:08 PM

#10

DatRandomDude

News Team

YEEHAW

Offline

Nov 2014

9471

STOP SLEEPING ON ODD TAXI

Sep 8, 2015 5:09 PM

#11

Offline

Mar 2011

25073

if theey being usinfg words like peko peko then yes yes it wold be

Sep 8, 2015 5:10 PM

#12

Hoppy

Offline

Nov 2008

27789

It is, but don't let the nationalism hamper your enjoyment, it's done in an unoffensive way.

Sep 8, 2015 10:09 PM

#13

entropy13

Offline

Jul 2008

1280

ReasonDesu said:

You also forgot to remember that Japan's increase militarization is not actually to "fight foreigners" but to "fight with foreigners". Because of the reforms, they are now able to sell/give away military equipment to other countries. Japan's also making patrols in the West Philippine Sea now too, which wouldn't be possible before. They are moving towards cooperation (with most countries), the remaining hostility is still towards China, especially with the numerous territorial disputes China has with its neighbors.

So they want the Japanese public to be more open to cooperation with foreign countries by...attacking foreigners? And as I've said before, China and Russia are not the same case as the US because there aren't really any territorial disputes with the US. And the "cooperation" angle of the current Abe government is towards Southeast Asian countries like the Philippines and Vietnam, actually.

Sep 9, 2015 4:24 AM

#14

RPSB9

Offline

Apr 2015

3453

Japanese SF are the best in the world!!!!

#CHEXIT

Sep 9, 2015 4:54 AM

#15

Offline

Jan 2012

1833

entropy13 said:
~snip

The thing is I haven't implied Japan were going to fight the west. The reason I am against the reforms along with the majority of the Japanese public is because this will allow "allies" to drag them into engagements in the middle east and other places to support the west. In my opinion this is just an attempt by the US to gain more support and military capabilities in Asia. Japan should stay a peace keeping nation. Their current force is perfect for that.

Japan has always been allowed a military and a defensive military is an oxymoron. It can soon become an attacking force. This has just prevented them from cooperating militarily with other partners.

Sep 9, 2015 12:42 PM

#16

Offline

Jul 2013

225

ReasonDesu said:

entropy13 said:
~snip

The thing is, you can't do real pacifism without the possibility of cooperating with your allies. If you close yourself to the world, soon that world will be knocking at your door. Japan actually has an alliance with the West that is only benefical to Japan: if Japan is attacked, the West will come to help, yet, if the west is attacked, Japan will be unable to do the same. Where is the fairness in that? Can you blame figures like Trump on bashing this kind of alliance? If Japan shuts itself from its allies, it will find itself increasingly alone.
Take my country as an example: we haven't been on a war since 1870, yet in WWII, when our allies asked for our help we sent troops to Italy and ships to the South Atlantic, and to this day we are globaly seem as both a peaceful country and a reliable partner. If we hadn't sent those troops, our allies would probably not consider us worth to defend, and without their support we would probably face war with our neghboors sometime in the XX century. So, cooperating with our allies in a global conflict gave us assurance of their support if we ever faced some threat, and in the modern world this merely assurance is enough to sometimes avoid unecessary bloodshed. (I am Brazilian, by the way.)

Sep 9, 2015 12:44 PM

#17

Offline

Mar 2011

25073

Hoppy said:
It is, but don't let the nationalism hamper your enjoyment, it's done in an unoffensive way.

im Japanese an i do not see it

Sep 9, 2015 1:07 PM

#18

Offline

Jan 2012

1833

Why should Japan get involved in the conflicts of EU and US? I personally don't think they should get themselves into a position where they would be obliged to. They don't need collective defense and the majority want rid of the American bases in Okinawa. This just drags them into conflicts that would otherwise not involve them. And yes, in case you didn't notice I am a huge leftist hippie~

Sep 9, 2015 1:09 PM

#19

Offline

Mar 2011

25073

ReasonDesu said:
Why should Japan get involved in the conflicts of EU and US? I personally don't think they should get themselves into a position where they would be obliged to. They don't need collective defense and the majority want rid of the American bases in Okinawa. This just drags them into conflicts that would otherwise not involve them. And yes, in case you didn't notice I am a huge leftist hippie~

im a leftist too hence why id ntoice the politics in things more amd form what iv seen in gate there is none that could be link to that

Sep 9, 2015 2:28 PM

#20

Offline

Jul 2013

225

ReasonDesu said:
Why should Japan get involved in the conflicts of EU and US?

Because Japan needs US and EU's assurance of military support in case anything goes wrong in their relation with China and Russia. You can't expect military support forever when you don't offer anything in return, and the Japanese government knows that. It's much more of a matter on pragmatism than on ideology, to be honest.
And the majority of the Japanese population support American bases in Okinawa, just the majority of okinawans don't.

But yeah, this discussion has taken too long, and this is not the place to discuss politics. In short, I don't really think GATE is propaganda of any sort, altho the author's personal political view is probably close to Abe's. If you can't deal with nationalism in any sort, even when subtle, you should probably stop watching it.

Sep 9, 2015 4:12 PM

#21

Offline

Jan 2012

1833

Japan doesn't need any western support. It's perfectly fine being pacifist and working to get better relations with China/Korea etc.

We all know if they actually put it to a national vote the bases would be gone. Given the sentiment in Okinawa is much stronger.

ReasonDesuSep 9, 2015 4:19 PM

Sep 9, 2015 5:01 PM

#22

Offline

Jul 2013

225

ReasonDesu said:
Japan doesn't need any western support. It's perfectly fine being pacifist and working to get better relations with China/Korea etc.

The moment Japan loses western support for good, it will imediatly loses any political leverage it has on the region. This would lead for China and North Korea to increase any geopolitical demands they have, which will in turn increase the political pressure on the Japanese government.
From here on, there would be two alternatives:
1- Japanese government comply to any demands China makes, in which case there are 2 possible scenarios: either the Japanese government loses popular support and internal crisis intesifies, or Japan falls into the Russo-Chinese area of influence, which makes only a matter of time to the same process we see now to repeat. (China needs Japanese support, and the government is forced to reform the constitution, with much greater risks.)
2- Japan does not comply to the demands, and relations with China deteriorate rapidly. Japan is now isolated in the middle of enemy nations, not a position where you want to be.

A similar analysis was made not by me, but by Alexandr Dugin, Russia's greatest geopolitical analyst, with much influence in Putin's government, who sees Japan in the first probability to be the ideal geopolitical ally for Russia.

Reality is a bitch, I know, but Japan definetly needs the West if it wants to mantain the same political stance it has mantained since WWII (and that includes pacifism as well).

But yeah, this is definetly my last post here, sorry for the slight off-topic.

Sep 10, 2015 3:26 AM

#23

Offline

Jan 2012

1833

You make some good points to be fair. However, you talk as if the US are the only option, and that Japan somehow needs an intermediary (the US) to have successful relationships with its neighbors. There is nothing that the US are doing to make relations better with China. If anything having the bases encroaching closer and closer towards their borders has a negative impact on relations. Japans economic situation has also been made worse by western intervention and the BRICS nations are growing while the US and EU are in decline.

I don't believe Japan need the US to keep the same political stance. But at the same time, they can keep the bases (which don't seem to be going anywhere anytime soon anyway) but not sign up for collective defense responsibility which would involve them getting dragged into all the current, and future wars created by the west. This would have very little benefit to Japan in the long run and it's not like the US are going to pull out of Japan if they refuse to change the constitution.

Sep 10, 2015 7:00 AM

#24

Offline

Mar 2011

25073

ReasonDesu said:
You make some good points to be fair. However, you talk as if the US are the only option, and that Japan somehow needs an intermediary (the US) to have successful relationships with its neighbors. There is nothing that the US are doing to make relations better with China. If anything having the bases encroaching closer and closer towards their borders has a negative impact on relations. Japans economic situation has also been made worse by western intervention and the BRICS nations are growing while the US and EU are in decline.

I don't believe Japan need the US to keep the same political stance. But at the same time, they can keep the bases (which don't seem to be going anywhere anytime soon anyway) but not sign up for collective defense responsibility which would involve them getting dragged into all the current, and future wars created by the west. This would have very little benefit to Japan in the long run and it's not like the US are going to pull out of Japan if they refuse to change the constitution.

in the 60's and 70's japan wenst thiugth a bigger liberalization than even the us hell the tokyo university protests show that [ hell my own father got kicked out of that place for his roll ]

but that slow lean ot the left in Japan died when the head of the communst party got murdered live on tv druing a rally and then the communist party driffted more and more to the center but ot little sucsees

then in late 1994 the worker party were voted in and they put in ot law unionization quotas and nationalized [ or semi nationalized per say the rail network]

and now uts the cae of the old right vs the young left most of the japanese hard left are lost decadeers [ ie peopel bron in the 1993-1997 era while people whi are Born in to 60's Liberal family while the boom was still in full swing wre more center left [ me for example] but im also a fully payed up memeber of the Japanese national union of Journalists] but over all the unionsin Japan are less fragmented than most cuase there ran y the workers party in every way so become a union member become a party member vote may not say it cuase of reason of alot of left iwnger abstaining fom voting in the last 2 elections but the workers party is the 2nd biggest party in szie of meber ship in Japan

hance why siance 2005/6 there has always been a collation govermet in japan cause no member the party i belong the 2nd biggest party will ever change there vote

there also hige reason why i hate anome stuios who dot resaly higer union workers cuaase this would put more party members in the industry thus forcing pay rizes or strokies will happen [ and with how high unionniation is] and how tied they are to each other if a strike vote passes very union in the nation wilm jion the picket that around just under 25-a max of 32% of the whole Japanese work force]

hance why also may 1st marches are bigger in Japan than most other nations us included even if half of the unionzied work force of Japan marchs that = 12% of the worker of the nation while in the us oly 7 % unioniantion exists

Sep 10, 2015 2:31 PM

#25

rladls717

Offline

Jul 2011

378

I want to ask one thing, do you people think that either putting up the Rising Sun on the episode 2, and being censored for the oversea version was good thing to do?

Sep 10, 2015 4:39 PM

#26

Takuan_Soho

Offline

Oct 2012

6648

Hoppy said:
It is, but don't let the nationalism hamper your enjoyment, it's done in an unoffensive way.

What nationalism? Just because the writer doesn't hate their country doesn't make him a nationalist.

None of the other countries have been shown in a negative light. Each is merely pursuing their own interests as certain Japanese groups are.

Sep 11, 2015 5:01 AM

#27

darboux

Offline

Jun 2015

162

Takuan_Soho said:

Hoppy said:
It is, but don't let the nationalism hamper your enjoyment, it's done in an unoffensive way.

Yes they are shown in a negative light.Or at least thats the feel the show gives you.

All countries except seem to want to take ''advantage'' of the other world while Japan just tries to communicate and protect them and make peace.

Just because the writter does not hate his country it does not mean he gotta make them look angelic/most understanding/forgiving/pure intentions etc...

Its a joke lol,well everyone got their opinions but your post really made me laugh )).

The show is still good tho,its not done in a very annoying way so all good i guess.

Sep 11, 2015 11:50 AM

#28

ichii_1

Offline

Sep 2013

22818

^america nuked japan, why wouldn't they nuke the other world then?
russia, korea, china, latin america countries, etc.. would slaughter everyone there too and Europa is corrupt.

Gate's portrayal is realistic.
Japan being one of the safest places to live in the world.

Sep 11, 2015 3:23 PM

#29

Takuan_Soho

Offline

Oct 2012

6648

rladls717 said:
I want to ask one thing, do you people think that either putting up the Rising Sun on the episode 2, and being censored for the oversea version was good thing to do?

That wasn't the "rising sun" flag. That was the JSDF flag which is similar but still quite different (as you can see)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/66/Flag_of_JSDF.svg/2000px-Flag_of_JSDF.svg.png

The problem the Japanese military has with their flag is that it is a red dot in the middle of a white field, if there wasn't any wind it would look like a surrender flag, thus then need something that takes the red to the edge of the flag.

And the censoring overseas was ridiculous.

Sep 14, 2015 2:25 AM

#30

private_eye

Offline

Jan 2015

I see Japan as villains, even though they were attacked they had the need to invade and occupy piece of Empires territory and not only that they put an embargo on Empire, now imagine if Japan was surrounded by China and China puts embargo on Japan not allowing them to travel nor trading of any sort, how many international laws would China broke. And where is UN's Supervision, United Nations peacekeeping must be present if all is to regulations.

As it stands i don't see a problem with rest of the world uniting and liberating Empire from Japans clutch.

private_eyeSep 14, 2015 2:31 AM

Sep 14, 2015 11:28 AM

#31

konatachan80

Offline

May 2014

557

private_eye said:
I see Japan as villains, even though they were attacked they had the need to invade and occupy piece of Empires territory and not only that they put an embargo on Empire, now imagine if Japan was surrounded by China and China puts embargo on Japan not allowing them to travel nor trading of any sort, how many international laws would China broke. And where is UN's Supervision, United Nations peacekeeping must be present if all is to regulations.

As it stands i don't see a problem with rest of the world uniting and liberating Empire from Japans clutch.

That was a rather strange comparison.
If they did embargo it, then a slightly similar comparison would be if someone put an
embargo on this entire universe (its unlikely we'll ever notice it if it happens/ed).
It is a different WORLD (most likely with its own stars and whatever).

Not to mention, embargo would mean being denied access to something ...which is the
opposite of what happened. With sdf's arrival they got an influx of new items and whatnot.

konatachan80Sep 14, 2015 11:34 AM

Have faith in the Lord Fifth, gain eternal life! When the Lord Fifth appears, who dares to cause strife!
-- Lord fifth

Sep 14, 2015 5:39 PM

#32

Top_Sergeant

Offline

Mar 2015

772

Maybe I missed something, but as far as I can tell the SDF hasn't emplaced any sort of Embargo on the Empire's trade. If they had occupied Italica and cut off the food supply from that area I would agree, but they didn't; they left Italica under local control. Aside from recon missions, the only thing they've done (aside from defend Alnus and Italica) is send an embassy to the Imperial capital.

The sword that takes life gives life

Sep 14, 2015 7:04 PM

#33

chococya96

Offline

Jul 2010

It depends on your perspective and how you perceive the whole Japanese military shenanigans.

For the series itself, the author's initial work (web novel) was your usual right-wing nutjob fantasy novel. Then he "slightly" tone down his views/themes on the LN and then even more on the manga and so on.
In the end you have something which is tolerable to watch though, there are still some of author's views left out because reasons. Considering the target audience is Japanese themselves, portraying something nationalistic from their end wouldn't bring any harms to them either way.

Personally, I would consider the anime adaptation of GATE comparable to every American war movies out there. Either you watch it with your brains turned off or just don't bother with it at all (for people who are sensitive or "butthurt" that is).

Sep 14, 2015 9:09 PM

#34

entropy13

Offline

Jul 2008

1280

There are villains in the show, and it's neither Japan itself nor the Empire itself. Rather it's individuals within the Japanese government and individuals within the ruling class of the Empire.

What do those individuals within the Japanese government want? Exploit everything in the new world, and don't give a flying f**k about the people there (reminds you of what happened IRL, multiple times already?).

What do those individuals within the Empire's ruling class want? Total war against the "invaders", and don't give a flying f**k about their own people (reminds you of what happened IRL, multiple times already?).

entropy13Sep 14, 2015 9:13 PM

Sep 15, 2015 1:22 AM

#35

private_eye

Offline

Jan 2015

Personally i wouldn't comment on this if i hadn't seen this much wall of text. I like the characters, but for the plot itself is big no and i try to turn off the brain as much it's possible.

I mean come on, you could have throw single can and that whole army doesn't have the power to open it, and yet we see tanks, helicopters etc... That alone wouldn't be possible to see on Hollywood film yet alone in RL(for sovereign country not dictatorships). Couple of water cannons, ear-splitting sirens or ADS would be more then enough to handle them(not to mention flashbangs and other non lethal weapons). By anime logic you could then go somewhere in Amazon and when you stumble on some tribe you can shut them down freely. But things don't work out like that in RL there are protocols and procedures to ensure safety above all so you can't stumble and lost your way into unknown.

I understand that some like the characters and their personal affairs, some like common new girl introduction and lack of male counterpart, some like gore and etc... The thing i don't understand is the people that like this pseudo political concept, i mean i can understand them, but i can't be friends with them(well they probably don't won't to be in the first place though).

Sep 17, 2015 2:51 AM

#36