| Why doesnt saber scabbard work on archer as well as shirou ? Dont they have the scabbard inside them ? |
diu613 said: Why doesnt saber scabbard work on archer as well as shirou ? Dont they have the scabbard inside them ? Archer doesn't have the scabbard inside of him. |
The sun is a deadly laser |
| No, Archer doesn't. |
| How come he hasnt got it in him ? |
diu613 said: How come he hasnt got it in him ? 1) He's an Heroic Spirit. He's just a copy of the real thing from the Throne of Heroes. 2) He might have given it back to Saber, or lost it at the end of his Holy Grail War. |
The sun is a deadly laser |
| It's not associated with him, so he wouldn't be summoned with it. It's not part of his "legend". And for that matter, he could well have given it back to Saber or lost it in life as well. |
diu613 said: How come he hasnt got it in him ? I actually don't remember the reasoning, anyone help on this, i'm curious. Insertanamehere said: It's not associated with him, so he wouldn't be summoned with it. Completely forgot, makes sense that since he is only the embodyment of Emiya that he wouldn't be summoned with something that isn't "His"...lol |
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Insertanamehere said: It's not associated with him, so he wouldn't be summoned with it. It's not part of his "legend". And for that matter, he could well have given it back to Saber or lost it in life as well. It is, tho. It's in his 'legend' and it's also what molded him into I am the bone of muh sword. |
The sun is a deadly laser |
mira-nyan said: Insertanamehere said: It's not associated with him, so he wouldn't be summoned with it. It's not part of his "legend". And for that matter, he could well have given it back to Saber or lost it in life as well. It is, tho. It's in his 'legend' and it's also what molded him into I am the bone of muh sword. Avalon is traditionally associated with King Arthur. Imagine Arturia found Harpe in life. The HS Saber still wouldn't be summoned with it because it's not part of her legend, and she wouldn't be associated with it. Like that. |
Insertanamehere said: mira-nyan said: It is, tho. It's in his 'legend' and it's also what molded him into I am the bone of muh sword. Avalon is traditionally associated with King Arthur. Imagine Arturia found Harpe in life. The HS Saber still wouldn't be summoned with it because it's not part of her legend, and she wouldn't be associated with it. Like that. Well, if she found it, it'd be associated with her. It won't be summoned with her, as it's not something she prominently used in life, but it could probably be used as a catalyst. Ofc, the original owner would be much more likely to be summoned. And Archer is different. Avalon defines him. And it's probably with him throughout his legend. No, it will not be summoned with him, but if Rin's pendant can summon him, or is associated with him, obviously Avalon would be, as well. |
The sun is a deadly laser |
WrongPriest said: I guess the requirement is that they retain it to their death, I mean Saber would probably be summoned with Avalon if she didn't lose it like a silly billy. Gae Bolg is associated with multiple heroic spirits after all. Perhaps if Archer had held on to Avalon his whole life might be spawned with Battle Continuation or something for his troubles. No, no. He won't be summoned with it. Like he said, he didn't have a weapon associated with him. He won't be summoned with it. And there's probably only a 0.000001% chance that he would be summoned by it, considering it's Saber's. |
The sun is a deadly laser |
mira-nyan said: Well, if she found it, it'd be associated with her. It won't be summoned with her, as it's not something she prominently used in life, but it could probably be used as a catalyst. Ofc, the original owner would be much more likely to be summoned. And Archer is different. Avalon defines him. And it's probably with him throughout his legend. No, it will not be summoned with him, but if Rin's pendant can summon him, or is associated with him, obviously Avalon would be, as well. I meant if she found it and no one knew about her finding of it. Because it's not well known that Emiya Shirou had Avalon. WrongPriest said: I guess the requirement is that they retain it to their death, I mean Saber would probably be summoned with Avalon if she didn't lose it like a silly billy. Gae Bolg is associated with multiple heroic spirits after all. Perhaps if Archer had held on to Avalon his whole life might be spawned with Battle Continuation or something for his troubles. Well Sabers different to begin with since it's And GB is most famously associated with Cu. But for that matter, both him and Scathach are (seemingly) summoned with it so i'm not sure what your point is there. |
| Archer probably had Avalon removed, or he would stay oblivious to it like UBW/HF Shirou. |
Insertanamehere said: mira-nyan said: Well, if she found it, it'd be associated with her. It won't be summoned with her, as it's not something she prominently used in life, but it could probably be used as a catalyst. Ofc, the original owner would be much more likely to be summoned. And Archer is different. Avalon defines him. And it's probably with him throughout his legend. No, it will not be summoned with him, but if Rin's pendant can summon him, or is associated with him, obviously Avalon would be, as well. I meant if she found it and no one knew about her finding of it. Because it's not well known that Emiya Shirou had Avalon. Perseus is the one that rode it. No one knew EMIYA had an RM, either. Doesn't mean he isn't summoned with it. Also It won't be summoned with her, as it's not something she prominently used in life, but it could probably be used as a catalyst. |
The sun is a deadly laser |
mira-nyan said: Insertanamehere said: I meant if she found it and no one knew about her finding of it. Because it's not well known that Emiya Shirou had Avalon. Perseus is the one that rode it. No one knew EMIYA had an RM, either. Doesn't mean he isn't summoned with it. Also It won't be summoned with her, as it's not something she prominently used in life, but it could probably be used as a catalyst. It isn't summoned with her because she LOST it, that's why story ended the way it did. Just like Gils was the key to his treasure. In any case it isn't related to archer nor does it have an significance in terms of what he did (as in he didn't get famous because of it). |
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TheUnknownMerc said: mira-nyan said: Perseus is the one that rode it. No one knew EMIYA had an RM, either. Doesn't mean he isn't summoned with it. Also It isn't summoned with her because she LOST it, that's why story ended the way it did. Just like Gils was the key to his treasure. In any case it isn't related to archer nor does it have an significance in terms of what he did (as in he didn't get famous because of it). And Saber didn't get famous because of Excalibur. Also, wth are you saying? It's super related to him. It's the one thing that saved his life AND changed his Origin. And it doesn't have to be significant. It isn't summoned with her because 1) Yes, she lost it 2) She isn't dead yet, so she will only be summoned with the things around her. Lastly, she threw, or rather, Bedivere threw Excalibur into the lake. And Rhongomyniad wasn't with her, either. They don't have to die with it to be summoned with it. |
The sun is a deadly laser |
mira-nyan said: Also, wth are you saying? It's super related to him. It's the one thing that saved his life AND changed his Origin. Nasu time: A: 「Avalon’s power won't work if Saber's not connected to it. It's a different story during the Grail War, but all it does when Saber isn't around is make Shirou's magic attribute into "sword". 」 Why, magic attribute "Sword" isn't even related to the ability to manifest "Unlimited Blade Works": 「Shirou Emiya's origin is "Sword" and his alignment as a Magus is also "Sword". He is unable to use magic of the five great elements with precision because he doesn't have any of them as an alignment, but it does allow for the manifestation of "Unlimited Blade Works."」 There's a questionable statement that "Sword is becoming his origin", because he also said One's origin is absolute and is one's root of existence in the same material book. In Kara no Kyoukai it's stated to be the starting point of one's very soul from the whirlpool of root itself. So that statement may be interpreted as his origin manifesting(just not like Rio), or it's just Nasu bullshitting. Take your pick!  Either way nowhere it was stated that Avalon can change origin anyways. Right now Avalon changing origin will remain a speculation unless Nasu said otherwise. All that talk about Kinoko makes me want to buy some mushrooms for food next time. |
GradationAirMay 30, 2015 1:20 AM
GradationAir said: Omg, are you a retard? It's like you haven't even read Fae route. You, for some reason, highlighted 'alignment' but not 'origin' because "herp derp, gotta act like an idiot now". ~.~ Everyone knows you're a troll, so no bother with arguing against you. I r8 -8/8 |
The sun is a deadly laser |
GradationAir said: That mushroom is so hypnotic :C |
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mira-nyan said: GradationAir said: Omg, are you a retard? It's like you haven't even read Fae route. You, for some reason, highlighted 'alignment' but not 'origin' because "herp derp, gotta act like an idiot now". ~.~ Everyone knows you're a troll, so no bother with arguing against you. I r8 -8/8 I highlighted Alignment because Alignment is NOT magic attribute. I never said “sword" origin is not required for "Unlimited Blade Works". I said: magic attribute "Sword" isn't even related to the ability to manifest "Unlimited Blade Works": Because: 「Shirou Emiya's origin is "Sword" and his alignment as a Magus is also "Sword". He is unable to use magic of the five great elements with precision because he doesn't have any of them as an alignment, but it does allow for the manifestation of "Unlimited Blade Works."」 Magic Attribute "Sword" isn't a requirement for Unlimited Blade Works. And what does Avalon do? all it does when Saber isn't around is make Shirou's magic attribute into "sword". Before you make any argument about, overthrow that statement from Nasu first. www.readingcomprehensionconnection.com YW |
GradationAirMay 30, 2015 4:12 AM
GradationAir said: *Insert random stuff here from the same person who called CMs asspulls* *Points at Fate route* Read. It. |
The sun is a deadly laser |
mira-nyan said: GradationAir said: *Insert random stuff here from the same person who called CMs asspulls* *Points at Fate route* Read. It. mira-nyan said: GradationAir said: *Insert random stuff here from the same person who called CMs asspulls* *Points at Fate route* Read. It. Stop putting words in my mouth, I just said that Archer got nerfed, and Nasu retcons things all the time. I always accept the new material as canon. ╮(╯_╰)╭ I'm just not stupid enough to convince myself that they aren't retcon/nerf/buffs, I can accept them and move on. In fact I even accept UBＷ anime as canon, because of Nasu's involvement. I have read Fate 7 times by now in three different languages, and there are literally 0 points that pointed out that Avalon is related to Shirou's origin. In fact I don't think Fate-route even talks about origin. So enlighten me, saber fan. Just where it says Avalon can change the origin? Please don't tell me vague answers like "it's because during healing processe swords come out" or "Because Saber said you were my sheath", but hard facts. |
| Origin is brought up once in the first 3 days, SHirou says Kerry brought it up. Other than that I don't remember it being explicitly said by name, there may be allusions to it. |
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nocorras said: Origin is brought up once in the first 3 days, SHirou says Kerry brought it up. Other than that I don't remember it being explicitly said by name, there may be allusions to it. Ah, I remember now, first day during magecraft training at night. I wasn't exactly sure, thought it wasn't in Fate route. |
I have read Fate 7 times by now in three different languages, what the bloody hell |
DamnThatsTheSpot said: I have read Fate 7 times by now in three different languages, what the bloody hell Three times were because I recommended to other people and read it together. Read english twice because Realta Nua PC back-port. |
| You really love this game,don't you |
DamnThatsTheSpot said: You really love this game,don't you Naw, I just think it's a typical shounen story featuring a generic shounen protag who is obviously too stupid to think. |
GradationAir said: mira-nyan said: *Points at Fate route* Read. It. mira-nyan said: *Points at Fate route* Read. It. Stop putting words in my mouth, [b]I just said that Archer got nerfed, and Nasu retcons things all the time[b]. I always accept the new material as canon. ╮(╯_╰)╭ I'm just not stupid enough to convince myself that they aren't retcon/nerf/buffs, I can accept them and move on. In fact I even accept UBＷ anime as canon, because of Nasu's involvement. I have read Fate 7 times by now in three different languages, and there are literally 0 points that pointed out that Avalon is related to Shirou's origin. In fact I don't think Fate-route even talks about origin. So enlighten me, saber fan. Just where it says Avalon can change the origin? Please don't tell me vague answers like "it's because during healing processe swords come out" or "Because Saber said you were my sheath", but hard facts. Sad but true ;( Ok I have no idea why everything is bolded, I did the shit right. Should just be the nasu retcon/archer nerf line >.> |
GradationAir said: DamnThatsTheSpot said: You really love this game,don't you Naw, I just think it's a typical shounen story featuring a generic shounen protag who is obviously too stupid to think. Dat tsun-tsun |
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SaintEmiya said: Ok I have no idea why everything is bolded, I did the shit right. Should just be the nasu retcon/archer nerf line >.> gotta /b it OneTrueEmiya said: GradationAir said: Naw, I just think it's a typical shounen story featuring a generic shounen protag who is obviously too stupid to think. Dat tsun-tsun I didn't originally think that, but the more Nasu-involved Fate materials/works/adpatations that come out the more I feel that way. |
GradationAir said: OneTrueEmiya said: Dat tsun-tsun I didn't originally think that, but the more Nasu-involved Fate materials/works/adpatations that come out the more I feel that way. You know deep inside you the love for the Mushroom still exists, Aachaa :V |
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| Someone please define the word "generic" and "generic shounen -insertaspectshere-" and tell me why it's supposedly "bad". |
 |
OneTrueEmiya said: You know deep inside you the love for the Mushroom still exists, Aachaa :V I respect Nasu-san very much. That's why I'll respect his decisions for the new UBW, and accepted it at face value. If this is Nasu's new vision, I'll accept it over his older visions. Grey-Zone said: Someone please define the word "generic" and "generic shounen -insertaspectshere-" and tell me why it's supposedly "bad". Far too many character with similar personality and is uninteresting. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HotBlooded http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IdiotHero Shirou appears in both tropes. In fact his pic is on the top page of the first trope. By reading the VN I thought Shirou was a cold-looking silent thinker who usually thinks twice or even thrice before he acts, but had a distorted view of values. -His body knows fear, but he overcomes it because some things are even scarier than his own safety. -He is a logical fighter, and he quickly deduces the distance in strength against Lancer and even predicted Lancer's attack completely. Take a look at Archer's fighting style(mind's eye true). -He is mentioned by many people to be cold. Issei said that Shirou seemed easy to anger and dangerous. -He thinks. He thinks through many things so thoroughly, if anything the only problem is that he doesn't talk enough. He always keep things to himself. His personality resembled neither of these tropes. But Nasu-san has proven me wrong and I will respect his new definition of Shirou. Not Shirou himself, of course. |
GradationAirMay 30, 2015 6:05 AM
GradationAir said: Grey-Zone said: Someone please define the word "generic" and "generic shounen -insertaspectshere-" and tell me why it's supposedly "bad". Far too many character with similar personality and is uninteresting. So in short it's a prejudical buzzword as I expected. I have seen "generic" used so damn often for the Rakudai Kishi no Cavalry anime adaption announcment with just far too many objectively wrong "arguments" that I cannot take this word seriously anymore. Also lol at the tropes... in hotblooded it's only the image (and it's about cooking), but the actual entry is Taiga... the idiot hero is outdated because it's based on DEEN2006 (it specifically refers to Shirou not letting Saber fight)... i.e. nothing to do with Shirou in this adaption. |
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GradationAir said: OneTrueEmiya said: You know deep inside you the love for the Mushroom still exists, Aachaa :V I respect Nasu-san very much. That's why I'll respect his decisions for the new UBW, and accepted it at face value. If this is Nasu's new vision, I'll accept it over his older visions. Grey-Zone said: Someone please define the word "generic" and "generic shounen -insertaspectshere-" and tell me why it's supposedly "bad". Far too many character with similar personality and is uninteresting. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HotBlooded http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IdiotHero Shirou appears in both tropes. In fact his pic is on the top page of the first trope. By reading the VN I thought Shirou was a cold-looking silent thinker who usually thinks twice or even thrice before he acts, but had a distorted view of values. His personality resembled neither of these tropes. But Nasu-san has proven me wrong and I will respect his new definition of Shirou. Not Shirou himself, of course. Erm. TV Tropes. Kay. Alright, let's get this over with. First of all, TV Tropes is a website that will literally list out every single trope in literature, which means no matter how "cliche" or "not cliche" a thing is, there will be a page on it. A page on TV Tropes ≠ cliche. Second of all, TV Tropes is like Wikipedia. Anyone can edit it. I can very well put Emiya Kiritsugu or Serial Killer-kin in "HotBlooded" or Sehai-kun in "Idiot Hero" for all I care. It's not a good source. Finally, putting all the TV Tropes hurt aside, it's the UBW anime. I think it's been established Shirou isn't give much characterisation time, that this is to be treated as AU, and that the VN is still the most credible source for Shirou's characterisation in general. Fai has been preaching on and on about this, this is AU and isn't some new definition of Shirou. |
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Grey-Zone said: So in short it's a prejudical buzzword as I expected. I have seen "generic" used so damn often for the Rakudai Kishi no Cavalry anime adaption announcment with just far too many objectively wrong "arguments" that I cannot take this word seriously anymore. I won't comment on how generic Rakudai Kishi no Cavalry is, but the main character is anything but generic. If anything I find him similar to Shirou v1.0. Grey-Zone said: Also lol at the tropes... in hotblooded it's only the image (and it's about cooking), but the actual entry is Taiga... the idiot hero is outdated because it's based on DEEN2006 (it specifically refers to Shirou not letting Saber fight)... i.e. nothing to do with Shirou in this adaption. I don't see how he's any smarter in this adaptation at all. |
GradationAir said: I don't see how he's any smarter in this adaptation at all. But then why would one call him an "idiot" when his suicidal behaviour has a different explanation? Because that's pretty much the only argument for it and it's shown to be wrong in this adaption compared to DEENime. AOs actually showed geniune appreciation for Shirou in EP20, even those who "used to dislike him". I saw A LOT of such posts about EP20, it was also appearant in live-reactions. |
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OneTrueEmiya said: Fai has been preaching on and on about this, this is AU and isn't some new definition of Shirou. It was advertised to be UBW, nearly every fan thinks and preaches it's the read ubw, pretty much every AO thinks it's a perfect representation of it and anyone who thinks otherwise is salty. Like I said, I will respect Nasu-san's decisions he made with the UBW anime as well as the promises and states he made before the adaptation was aired. Grey-Zone said: GradationAir said: I don't see how he's any smarter in this adaptation at all. But then why would one call him an "idiot" when his suicidal behaviour has a different explanation? Because that's pretty much the only argument for it and it's shown to be wrong in this adaption. If there's ANY explanation, it's not doing a good job of making it sympathizable. You can't just say "oh because he has a reason" to justify everything he does. It's like giving Shinji a 5 min backstory about getting enough parental love, then suddenly people will start liking him. Not to mention it doesn't explain things such as picking a fight with Gilgamesh for pretty much no reason at all. Or taking Rider head on instead of escaping. Grey-Zone said: AOs actually showed geniune appreciation for Shirou in EP20, even those who "used to dislike him". I saw A LOT of such posts about EP20, it was also appearant in live-reactions. Why don't you go ask them whether Shirou is a smart thinker or an idiot hero? |
GradationAirMay 30, 2015 6:29 AM
| Thread Locked Question answered and like every other thread, it will go off-topic from there on out. You can also ask here: http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1347585 |
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