The never ending loop

Aredros said:
to wich point you think that things will keep like this?

Varista said:
This is why I dropped the show. No idea how the hell I watched for ~200 episodes.

Aredros said:
I've been following FT for some years now, I never expected it to be the best manga of the history, just an interesting shonen, but lately (and by lately Im talking about 2 years) everything its going in circles, and the events that could give a turn to the wheel (like death of characters, change of side... etc) are erased by the author to keep in the same line for years... a group of enemies appears, FT fights them, FT win with no casualties that matters (you can kill one lucy when there's two) and repeat... I was really hoping this last arc to be something different and now we are back to point zero... to wich point you think that things will keep like this?

Isterio said:


It´s a generic battle Shonen that saw that this formula writing works with One Piece and simply copied it. The difference is One Piece is better at executing fights by not making them one shots, has a more fledged out endgame and is so big that even if some shit hides inbetween, either no one notices, forgetts about it or ignores it. Also Fairy Tail lacks better flashbacks, good backstories that make people think characters that haven´t done shit in 3 years are cool because of their backstory.

sarroush said:

Isterio said:

651351684651659 chapters per fight does not make the execution of fights better.

If it would boil down to this alone your statement would be true, the sheer fact that One Piece characters have lost legitimately fights by being overpowered by the enemie and ending it with them getting overpowered instead of standing up giving a friendship speech and pulling a oneshot move out of their ass makes them better.

I´m not a friend of certain fights in One Piece and I do not hate on all the fights of Fairy Tail. Tenru Island had some of the best in the series. Do I count Erzas or Natsus fights among them? No. Cause it´s those two characters that have the most pointless predictable I pull shit out of my ass fights after giving you a speech about how fearsome Fairy Tail is.

My personal biggest beef with Fairy tail is how inconsistent powerlevels are, yes many shounen do the "determination power ups" where a character overcomes his boundries because it´s a do or die situation. But the issue is that , no other characters then Erza or Natsu tend to suffer from this disease. It´s only those two that need to have that winning record no matter what.

metsujin said:


Actually Natsu's fights do make sense (not all, but most of them do). I agree that the friendship speeches are annoying sometimes, sometimes the speeches fit the fight, sometimes nope. Now if we look at Natsu's fights (counting the important ones of course), and won't go into full details... So it's like this:
- Natsu vs. Gajeel, both fight equally, Gajeel eats iron, overpowers Natsu, Natsu eats fire (thanks to Lucy's help), overpowers Gajeel. Since slayer magic is known, to boost up the user power, but eating the same element as the magic.
- Natsu vs. Jellal, Jellal has the upper hand, Natsu & Erza are saved by Simon, who blocks Jellal's attack, Natsu eats etherion, and goes into Dragon Force, and beats Jellal, also his was weaken thanks to Erza.
- Natsu vs. Cobra, now this one was okay, ultimately the dude got defeat because he has super hearing and Natsu is a pretty noisy person.
- Natsu vs. Zero, at first Zero, defeats Natsu, Gray and Lucy. After that he struggles with him, until Jellal comes and gives Natsu the flame of rebuke, and he goes once again into Dragon Force.
- Natsu, Wendy and Gajeel vs. that dragon thing in Edolas, all 3 dragons slayers team up to destroy it.
- Natsu vs. Zancrow (not counting Natsu vs. Gildarts, because well Gildarts owns him), now this one, you could consider BS, Natsu "empties" his magic, and absorbs Zancrow's flames, it's a bit "ehhhhh".
- Team Natsu vs. Hades, five of them + Laxus against this guy, Natsu gets that Raienryuu mode (personally I thought that was cool xD). The fairies "powers" get restored when Ultear "repairs" the Tenrou Tree. And as we know they're powers are much greater there...
- Main members of Fairy Tail vs. Acnologia, the king of dragons owns them.
- Natsu vs. Sting & Rogue, at first it was a tag battle, then Natsu gets rid of Gajeel. And defeats the two dragon slayers that were in DF mode, again another BS fight (second one so far).
- Natsu vs. F!Rogue, F!Rogue, defeats Natsu the first time, Natsu then teams up with Atlas Flame, eats Atlas Flame's fire, and boosts it's power.
- Natsu vs. Jackal, again Jackal defeats Natsu, Natsu gets healed by Wendy, Natsu uses Raienryuu mode, to defeat Jackal, and it's exhausted after taking so many explosions.
- Natsu vs. that demon that could eat souls, meehh fight, defeated because he was stupid, and by a rock -_-
- Natsu & Gray vs. Mard Geer, both of them fight with Mard, and the one that takes Mard down is Gray, since his magic is more effective against demons.
And the rest we know how it goes down. Again this is not going into the details much, just overall, and of course my thoughts.

Isterio said:


I didn´t mean all of Natsus fight´s but the ones at Tenru island specifically.
Zancrow is a major offender and Master Hades is bullshit because, it was the first opportunity to make Gildarts shine, we saw him, we saw his feats and all of sudden he get´s taken out of the picture for the sole purpose of Natsu having his showdown with Hades, whcih is why I call bullshit on that fight.

Power level inconsistency. Some of Natsus fights are pretty good, this one is not. Jellals holy flame to enter Dragon Force made sense, it´s reasonable explained.
Since etherion is a special case which contains also highly condensed magical fire I can understand how that triggered Dragon Force, like I said not all FT fights are bad, especially the early ones are good. The one vs Erigor, was reasonable, Natsu overpowered him but the explanation was well executed and the fight was fun.

But Lightning Fire Dragon out of nowehre instead of giving Laxus a proper fight is just a no. Furthermore, some of the Tenru team helped him, but he was the one to do the main damage. I don´t buy that Wendy had an important part in that fight besides buffing, the same goes for the Edolas fight and Lucy, they are nothing more then Cheerleader and fanservice when it comes to fights.
Yes I think Lightning Fire Dragon looks beastly and that the mode itself is awesome, but it´s stupid, since it has not been used since his fight vs Max or has any explanation besides, well yeah Dragon Slayers can eat other substances too and mix them with their element. Since Gajeel did something similar it´s an established rule. So what are the restrictions or preparations for it? It doesn´t change the fact that it´s an asspull, whose sole purpose was to beat Hades.

metsujin said:
Mard Geer was taken down by Gray, and he did the most damage.

Isterio said:
Yes and that´s why Tartarus is imo the best Fairy Tail arc, not only because of that but for several other reasons. Many people agree with me and Tartaros was well received period.

It had flaws but they were kept to a minimum. Grays fights are a good examples of good execution.The fight vs Ultear had a good explanation behind it and besides the thing with Ul it was good. Neither did I like how Meredy just forgave her for killing her family+hometown. But the fight in itself was well executed. It had tension and because Gray doesn´t always win we do not know his outcome.

Actually I´m massively pissed that Hiro has the urge to always make Mira lose when it comes to a serious fight and make Erza or someone else beat her enemie. Similar to Elfman or Laxus. Those are all interesting characters that get shoved to the sideliens, which in itself wouldn´t be too bad, but even during their fights they get trolled which leads to further powerlevel inconsistensies.

metsujin said:


Gray's fight are more creative and I like those. The part with Meredy, Mashima himself said that he wanted Juvia to make a huge tsunami (or something along those lines), but since Japan took damage the same year, he just couldn't bring himself to do that. Personally I don't blame him for that lol
I agree, Mira has interesting powers, and should have more spotlight. The fight with her against Sayla, I liked the aspect of the Strauss family fighting, and Elfman kinda needed that, since he destroyed the guild on her orders, so yeah. I wanna see more of Laxus too, and not that Laxus vs. Jura, I do believe Laxus is strong, and Jura seems on par with Jellal, and Laxus seems also on par with them. Also that fight (and the outcome of GMG) was because the plot demanded too (F!Rogue, said to princess Hisui how everything would go etc.. so that she could open the gate). That's a thing that many are pissed off about, Sting not being able, to fight all the ft members, was that good?? Not really, but when people say stuff like "Ohh it's because the plot demanded too.." for other series, and are pissed about this, I go a little, "sighs". Thanks for the nice talk btw :)

Isterio said:
I am one of the people who wasn´t pissed about the GMG outcome. Actually i thought Sting getting beaten was reasonable and did fit the way it was foreshadowed to be. I´m not one of the King of Lightning sheeps that are all over his dick and suck off One Piece with whatever shit it throws at me.

What pissed me off though was that Erza used Friendship power during Tower of heaven, during Tenru Island, during the Grand Magic games and again during Tartaros.
Somewhere Hiro must draw the line, make her beat her enemie legit, I´d rather have a new armor which has some handicap or drawbacks. If there is a toll to the usage it´s not a stupid asspull, an asspull nonetheless but that´s Erzas magic concept in itself. Neither did the Armor of Nakagami piss me off that much because it´s not that OP tool people make it out to be. It´s basicly a counter to Mineveras abilities. Which in itself is random as fuck that she had an ability that basicly works as a counter to her but it´s better than every fight armorless Erza with her "heart " as her power.

metsujin said:


I didn't mind the Erza stuff, until the GMG. I did enjoy her fight against Azuma. But every time I see her armor-less, I cringe, because I know what we'll get. A friend of mine (she's a girl), said that Erza's fights are BS, BUT she finds it funny that a female is wrecking shit in a shounen, Started laughing at that. You can do that, but on a certain extend, there's a extend to everything. The nakagami armor, I knew people will get pissed because the translation isn't accurate, and it make it seem OP, if you don't own the volume, you can see in the anime it explains it, and it's not so OP as everyone make it seems. This is what I hate about videos on yt, if you don't have the proper knowledge, you miss lead others, into thinking the same way you do. Also it doesn't help the fact that most people, love to compare series with each other. You don't do that, you judge a series on it's own development. Situations will always be similar, especially in shounens. But people like to compare, just to bash the series, or to put the other one into a better light, whatever. I can't really comment on Minerva's magic, since every magic in the series, it's weird on it's own.

Isterio said:
So you basicly agree with me?

I do not think that Fairy Tail is as bad as a series alot of haters make it out to be, I give it curretnly a 5 but I´m inclined to upgrade it to a 7 depending on how the future will get handled. I´m currently just massively pissed at the Wargod bullshit.

Also I do think that Fairy Tail Zero for what it is is way better writen and less predictable although we know those characters fate, the most recent chapter is proof for that.

Isterio said:
So you basicly agree with me?

I like Zero too, part of every series that makes it more interesting, is the past (or so that's how I feel about it). Zero is proof that Mashima can write, lol, but I wonder if this has to do with the editors too. I read somewhere (idk if it's true), Lisanna was brought back, just because the editor liked her, and that to me was... wrong in many ways, I get he liked her, but you shouldn't make the writer do that just because you liked this character and such. Again I don't know if it's true, and this brings me to my point, editor could very well say stuff like "Hey you should make.. idk Erza really badass" or something like that.

Isterio said:

I was reading Naruto for the past 10 years and I started reading Rave 14 years ago.
Finished the series like two years ago and bought the final volume afterwards.

Everything regarding Lissana and Editor are salty shippers. Hiro wanted to make a happy series, where her death doesn´t fit at all. I have a theory why even Simon may be still alive. Anyway back to Lissana, just to give you an example of how delusional shippers can be. It´s actually terrifying because the conclusion is that they actually believe this bullshit, some of the NarutoXSakura shippers went that far to say that everything after x chapters is Genjutsu and there would be hints in the manga proving that.

I can only think of those as sad people who didn´t live happy relationships themselves and identify way too much with them.

What is more likely to have happened is this, Hiro has commented several times how he was inspired by Akira Toriyama, if you look up his Biography you find out that he lived in the mountains and the first manga/drawings he read were Dragon Ball comics.

The other two big authors inspired by that author are Oda and Kishi, you can see the similarities between all three series because of that inspiration source, furthermore Rave wasn´t a very big success. Fairy Tail already surpassed it in chapter counts sales and overall attention. I don´t buy the argument that it´s just the bewbs.

Hiro has tremendously improved his artstyle and even partially his foreshadowing. A friend of mine summed it up in one sentence, whose favorite Manga is Rave. Fairy Tail is Rave for children. It´s the same story all over again just with a more happy go lucky attitude. Lissana wasn´t killed for the same reason Jellal wasn´t killed or Ultear or Racer, although he blew himself up.
[b]
My worst fear for the series. Since time travel was introduced and Ultear sought for the true "Arc of Time" is that her wish comes true and by the end of the series. Everything evil that spawned since Zeref will be nulified because they change the very past.
With only the Fairy´s memorys intact or with an unconcious knowledge of each other so that they find together anyway although they live happy lives.

Isterio said:

Yes indeed the foreshadowing is good, foreshadowed waaay back, that Igneel was inside Natsu, when the dragons will be coming out, and such.
I honestly believe this manga will have a fairy tale ending, because it's called Fairy Tail, so I won't be surprised in that aspect, because the name itself implies it.

Kaimon said:
Because Mashima never challenges himself and is dead set on sticking to the status quo, the Tartarus arc was a step in the right direction but that's probably the best we're going to get.

JD2411 said:
It isn't going in a loop. In every single arc tiny hints have suggested that Natsu was E.N.D, as early as the forth major arc when Laxus tried to take over the guild. There has been subtle characterisation for the cast and subtle worldbuilding which doesn't manifest itself in the heavy exposition of similar shounen.

It is downright disingenuous to say it's in a loop when so much is revealed per arc.

yet you never complain about Oda who literally has followed the same structure for 17 years of visit island, beat up bad guys and leave island. LMAO. Fairy Tail's structure is significantly more unpredictable and diverse. If anyone follows a status quo, it's Oda.

Kaimon said:
Both Fairy Tail and One Piece are mostly formulaic lol, the difference is Oda has shown he can think outside the box and is overall just a way more competent writer.

Fairy Tail does a good job at things like light-hearted fun and comedy, it's genuinely made me laugh a few times, but when it gets serious it fails in pretty much every category. There's no memorable villain except maybe Acnologia and none of the fights end up being anything great because they only last 2-3 chapters at best and usually follow the same type of formula even when it they don't need to.

FTR I don't even hate Fairy Tail, I just think it's consistently mediocre but a really fun read if you shut your brain off.

Kaimon said:
Both Fairy Tail and One Piece are mostly formulaic lol, the difference is Oda has shown he can think outside the box and is overall just a way more competent writer.

Fairy Tail does a good job at things like light-hearted fun and comedy, it's genuinely made me laugh a few times, but when it gets serious it fails in pretty much every category. There's no memorable villain except maybe Acnologia and none of the fights end up being anything great because they only last 2-3 chapters at best and usually follow the same type of formula even when it they don't need to.

FTR I don't even hate Fairy Tail, I just think it's consistently mediocre but a really fun read if you shut your brain off.

FTR I don't even hate Fairy Tail, I just think it's consistently mediocre but a really fun read if you shut your brain off.

JD2411 said:
Oda has never shown that he can think outside of the box. Ever. You should really give examples

Fairy Tail villains are more memorable than One Piece. Like spandam(?). He was just the epitome of every villain cliché, crocodile was "the bad guy who turned good". Zeref alone is an interesting character with hermeneutic motivations that created an enigma around him and kept the reader interested. Jellal, again, is interesting given that his role is an anti-hero which transitioned from a villain. To say Fairy Tail has forgettable villains is downright dishonest.

"I like it but don't want to admit it or I'll lose my MAL cred"

If you like something I don't see any reason to be ashamed of doing so.

JD2411 said:


Fairy Tail villains are more memorable than One Piece. Like spandam(?). He was just the epitome of every villain cliché,

crocodile was "the bad guy who turned good".

Zeref alone is an interesting character with hermeneutic motivations that created an enigma around him and kept the reader interested.

ziggy_Z said:
Well done mentioning a faggot of a villain; I truly applaud generalizing a component by using such a pathetic character. How about I also use that technique, huh? Remember that guy who was one of the very first villains that used wind? Yeah, what's his name? No clue; I guess all FT villains are shit 'cause just one of them is.

ROLFLFMAO!! The only character you mentioned in your comments that epitomizes that trope is Jellal. Nice try, though. Hey, does the name Minerva ring any bells? It should.

Won't deny that, Zeref is a good villain; he's the only well-written villain in FT. But he's not in the league of BB or Akainu.

"To say Fairy Tail has [more memorable] villains is downright dishonest."

ziggy_Z said:
Well done mentioning a faggot of a villain; I truly applaud generalizing a component by using such a pathetic character. How about I also use that technique, huh? Remember that guy who was one of the very first villains that used wind? Yeah, what's his name? No clue; I guess all FT villains are shit 'cause just one of them is.

JD2411 said:
He was the main villian for an arc that took around 100 episodes. It's just stupid to compare him to the guy from Fairy Tail. Someone like Don Krieg is similar to the wind guy in terms of their roles.