If Fate/Hollow Ataraxia didn't exist, would you still like the F/SN servants better than the F/Z ones?(spoilers)
| Herc's and Ilya's bond strikes much deeper than Shirou/Saber's |
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| Herc was never under Sakura's control.He was as they said(Sakura,Shirou,narration) a blind beast still fighting for Ilya. His blackening was clearly different from Saber's.Probably because of God Hand(or lack of it). |
ssjokgJan 25, 2015 3:11 PM
| Oh, I don't remember that. So he is still doing what he wants to do and is stopped by Shirou before he could do any harm to Illya. That makes the situation far less tragic for him. |
| "Go. You can kill anyone but Senpai. Kill anyone else, no matter who they may be." http://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%20359/34-HF15-04-23.jpg "But then-----you won't be able to tell who that is, though, Berserker." http://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%20362/116-HF15-09-306.jpg He's still fighting his battle against Saber. He is blind and insane, his life has ended twice over, and his body is rotting, but he's still fighting to protect Ilya. |
HentaiPriest said: "Go. You can kill anyone but Senpai. Kill anyone else, no matter who they may be." http://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%20359/34-HF15-04-23.jpg "But then-----you won't be able to tell who that is, though, Berserker." http://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%20362/116-HF15-09-306.jpg He's still fighting his battle against Saber. He is blind and insane, his life has ended twice over, and his body is rotting, but he's still fighting to protect Ilya. Dat's even more tragic tho =3 Mickdrew said: Herc's and Ilya's bond strikes much deeper than Shirou/Saber's Don't go there m8. That scene was amazing. |
The sun is a deadly laser |
| Prepare your heart for that scene in cour 2. |
chickenonthepan said: Prepare your heart for that scene in cour 2. If there's no Lorelei in it I'll be flipping tables like mad. |
Stev said: ayy lmao |
chickenonthepan said: Prepare your heart for that scene in cour 2. Doctor Gilgamesh's Upcoming Operations ☐ Acupuncture - Redman Faker ☐ Cut-Up for a "rejuvenation ritual" - Fallen psycho witch princess ☐ Heart Surgery - Beloved aristocratic loli ☐ Organ Transplant - Mongrel with a wakamehead |
ZeroDragonJan 25, 2015 3:54 PM
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| The first one is Archer in UBW boi. But yes I look forward to seeing you tick off your schedule. |
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ZeroDragon said: chickenonthepan said: Prepare your heart for that scene in cour 2. Doctor Gilgamesh's Upcoming Operations ☐ Cut-Up for a "rejuvenation ritual" - Fallen psycho witch princess ☐ Heart Surgery - Beloved aristocratic loli ☐ Acupuncture - Redman Faker ☐ Organ Transplant - Mongrel with a wakamehead No room for the mindless dog, Doctor? |
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Mickdrew said: ZeroDragon said: Doctor Gilgamesh's Upcoming Operations ☐ Cut-Up for a "rejuvenation ritual" - Fallen psycho witch princess ☐ Heart Surgery - Beloved aristocratic loli ☐ Acupuncture - Redman Faker ☐ Organ Transplant - Mongrel with a wakamehead No room for the mindless dog, Doctor? This entry would exist for the Fate route: ☐ Euthanization - Hound of a Celtic blacksmith |
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CookingPriest said: Letting Shirou go is in Caster's character. Kerry is not Shirou. She would despise the fuck out of Kerry. And the moment Kerry would try to attack Kuizuki Caster would off him anyway. She has eyes and ears over entire city being able to monitor most of it. Funny how you bash Kayneth for his idiot personality, but defend Caster's stupidity here as part of her character. She didn't have to listen to Archer considering she already was his Master and has Command Seals over him. She should have killed Shirou and Rin immediately, as opposed to underestimating them. So what you mean is that Tokiomi's planning is below Ilya's level. Illya's who does not give a shit about war and just wants to troll certain Shirou. And oh look he got stabbed. Wow so much tactics. Oh yes, it was better than Ilya's. Keeping yourself hidden and safe while you let your partner and his Servant gather intel is smart. By the end of the river battle, he knew of Saber's, Lancer's, Berserker's, and Rider's Noble Phantasms and capabilities. And if not for Kirei, Kariya is dead and Berserker, the big nuisance, is gone. Please do define his "Strategy" if we remove his stupidity because I see none. Already explained it clearly. yeah they also drank tea with couple of granny characters. most likely fucked and also played basketball and looked at encyclopedias. So much planning. Yet again below Illya level. Oh, we sarcastic now? Welp, better than Emiya who cooks food and drinks tea, goes on dates and actually fucks. |
| It wasnt Rin and Shirou that defeated Caster.It was Archer alone.Her mistake was not killing him when he stole him from Rin. Em ok,Tokiomi found out about all of that.So?What did he do?At the same time he failed to monitor Kirei who was going around causing problems without Tokiomi knowing.Not to mention the biggest fuck up in the 4th War,ordering Gil to retreat. Why? Really there was no clever strategy in his raid. Waver actually did do something the rest of the Masters failed at.Finding Caster's lair.Hell he even gave all his Command seals to rider to power him up.Futile yes but clever. I hope the part about Shirou was sarcasm to Fai bs line. |
HentaiPriest said: It wasnt Rin and Shirou that defeated Caster.It was Archer alone.Her mistake was not killing him when he stole him from Rin. Em ok,Tokiomi found out about all of that.So?What did he do?At the same time he failed to monitor Kirei who was going around causing problems without Tokiomi knowing.Not to mention the biggest fuck up in the 4th War,ordering Gil to retreat. Why? Really there was no clever strategy in his raid. Waver actually did do something the rest of the Masters failed at.Finding Caster's lair.Hell he even gave all his Command seals to rider to power him up.Futile yes but clever. I hope the part about Shirou was sarcasm to Fai bs line. Actually had someone tell me today that ordering Gil to retreat was the right thing to do. |
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| *sigh* Let's do this... -kV- said: I'll admit I only read the F/SN VN, not the F/Z novel, so I don't know how it plays out there. I don't see any issue with the anime adaptation. Rider already senses and blocks an assassination attempt in an earlier episode. At the party, I highly doubt he just sits there totally unprepared as an Assassin shanks his master. Perhaps that's too much of an assumption, but I don't personally think it is. You mean when Assassins surround them and then just pull back without a fight? That was lol on it's own, but drinking party was on a whole different level. Unless Rider had some form of ranged attack this should have been one dead Waver. If Kerry played by the same rules (a mage duel), Kayneth holds the advantage. Even if he doesn't, Kay's Hydrargyrum *is* a trump card. It saved him from dying in a collapsing hotel. It instantly blocks the released traps and close-range gunfire. It can track and kill. It can be made for a situation where an opponent doesn't follow the rules as well. With an offensive/defensive tool of that caliber, Kay's strat wasn't completely brainless. I will say though that he does become full brain-dead when he doesn't retreat after getting hit in the shoulder. That's when he should have backed out. At least then he would have learned about Kerry's own abilities, so it wouldn't have been a complete defeat. As Sun Tzu said, no matter how good your skills are, forcing a direct confrontation is just a gamble if you don't know your opponent's cards. As I said, basing "strategies" on assumptions is stupid. The only way it could have worked was if he had some surefire contingency plan in store. Also, he didn't learn about Kerry's abilities after the first shot. If you go watch the scene, he says that he just "wasn't fast enough". So he double derped. You talking about the end? It's not like Rider was intending on losing. Orly. After Gil blew Rider's RM, Rider puts Waver off his horse and tells him to live. He knows he's going to be killed, actually from his expression he didn't look all that shocked that his RM got blown away easily. And yet he just leaves him there alone with Gil. But assuming he really thought he had chances to win... GoB is a ranged NP. What if he had just altered the trajectory of few of his weapons toward Waver? Rider obviously doesn't have any ranged skills or shield to use to intercept. We aren't talking about those derpy Assassins, it's feckin Archer class servant. |
Stev said: ayy lmao |
nocorras said: Why?HentaiPriest said: It wasnt Rin and Shirou that defeated Caster.It was Archer alone.Her mistake was not killing him when he stole him from Rin. Em ok,Tokiomi found out about all of that.So?What did he do?At the same time he failed to monitor Kirei who was going around causing problems without Tokiomi knowing.Not to mention the biggest fuck up in the 4th War,ordering Gil to retreat. Why? Really there was no clever strategy in his raid. Waver actually did do something the rest of the Masters failed at.Finding Caster's lair.Hell he even gave all his Command seals to rider to power him up.Futile yes but clever. I hope the part about Shirou was sarcasm to Fai bs line. Actually had someone tell me today that ordering Gil to retreat was the right thing to do. None of the Servants there can do anything to him even if they go at him together,Saber is nerfed,Berserker was at his limit,Caster and Assassin cant/wont do anything and the Masters are in danger of being killed by stray shots or overpowered NP explosions, hell Kariya may as well die in some minutes if Berserker keeps up like that. No EMIYA,No Avalon,No Dark Sakura.I cant imagine him losing there even with all his arrogance. |
HentaiPriest said: nocorras said: Why?Actually had someone tell me today that ordering Gil to retreat was the right thing to do. None of the Servants there can do anything to him even if they go at him together,Saber is nerfed,Berserker was at his limit,Caster and Assassin cant/wont do anything and the Masters are in danger of being killed by stray shots or overpowered NP explosions, hell Kariya may as well die in some minutes if Berserker keeps up like that. No EMIYA,No Avalon,No Dark Sakura.I cant imagine him losing there even with all his arrogance. "The problem Tokiomi had was that he was showing too much just to kill one single servant that didnt mean much in the grand scheme of things." He also excused all of Kayneth's actions related to storming the castle. Was pretty frustrating argument I had to bail out. |
nocorrasJan 25, 2015 6:01 PM
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| Everyone there was aware of his NP ever since he brought out two swords for Rider, Lancer and Saber. Tokiomi's reasoning made no sense there.So what if they saw him opening GoB even further?He has more than thousand NPs inside, the next shot would be Lancy's death and you know the rest.He even wasted one of the CS he so much wanted to use to make Gil kill himself later. |
| Gil is ONE servant where it is fucking pointless to hide his NP. Because he has TOO MANY. He has INFINITE NPs. And it does not matter if you counter ONE TWO or THREE, he has dozens more with different effects. Pulling him back was retardation of DEENFSN level. So was Kayneth waltzing into FREAKING EINZBERN THE FOUNDER OF THE WAR, Mansion where a man who fucked his hideout lives. That's like if in FPS you get headshotted by a sniper, get pissed and then run screaming towards him through an open field only to get shot in the face again. King Party was bullshit too. I literally should go through every Zero episode one day and dismantle the so called "Those masters had so much strategy!" argument, episode by episode -__- |
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HentaiPriest said: It wasnt Rin and Shirou that defeated Caster.It was Archer alone.Her mistake was not killing him when he stole him from Rin. They were Masters in the war nonetheless. They could still a pose a threat. Caster was stupid not to kill them. And sure enough, they do come back, and inadvertently provide the opportunity for Archer to do his thing. HentaiPriest said: None of the Servants there can do anything to him even if they go at him together. No EMIYA,No Avalon,No Dark Sakura.I cant imagine him losing there even with all his arrogance. Except how does Tokiomi know that? For all he knows, X Servant could have a shield that could block Ea. Or a Servant who perfectly counters GoB. HungryPriest said: *sigh* Let's do this... Kek, we call call it an agree-to-disagree. You mean when Assassins surround them and then just pull back without a fight? That was lol on it's own, but drinking party was on a whole different level. Unless Rider had some form of ranged attack this should have been one dead Waver. Like I said, I believe Rider would have sensed deadly intent and reacted if the Assassins made an attack. Maybe that's too much to assume. As Sun Tzu said, no matter how good your skills are, forcing a direct confrontation is just a gamble if you don't know your opponent's cards. As I said, basing "strategies" on assumptions is stupid. The only way it could have worked was if he had some surefire contingency plan in store. Also, he didn't learn about Kerry's abilities after the first shot. If you go watch the scene, he says that he just "wasn't fast enough". So he double derped. Well it is a war - there will be gambles and risks. It is a gamble, but one that's isn't completely unfavorable either. Other teams wouldn't be intervening. Saber is wounded and can be dealt with by Lancer. Kayneth may not know Kerry's cards, but neither did Kerry about Kayneth and his Hydrargyrum. Point I am making is I don't agree with some people who act as if that was the stupidest move ever. It only became dangerous when Kay took the bullet. If he had retreated after the shoulder hit, he would have learned how Kerry fights in a direct confrontation, using guns and having the ability of innate time control. So it wouldn't have been a complete defeat. GoB is a ranged NP. What if he had just altered the trajectory of few of his weapons toward Waver? Rider obviously doesn't have any ranged skills or shield to use to intercept. We aren't talking about those derpy Assassins, it's feckin Archer class servant. That's where all that buddy-buddy time helped. Rider got to know Archer's personality. Even if Archer wasn't preoccupied by Rider's charge and could take the shot, Rider knows he wouldn't until the duel was decided 100%. |
| For F/SN.....>> Pretty much I would still like still like them. F/Z has some good merits, but that Assassin in F/Z was like...wow, he really didn't accomplished much compared to True Assassin (I don't mean Sasaki Kojirou, but...yeah, some might know who he is.). |
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ZeroDragon said: Mickdrew said: No room for the mindless dog, Doctor? This entry would exist for the Fate route: ☐ Euthanization - Hound of a Celtic blacksmith Witch princess is also for Fate route |
| Archer could kill Caster even without them.The only reason he didnt was because he wanted to ambush Shirou in some way.Rin and Shirou DONT have the power to face Kuzuki and Caster AND achieve victory.The only reason they do is because a)Lancer fights Archer b)Archer kills Caster before she counterattacks. Tokiomi summoned Gil because he KNEW about his legend and how the rank of Heroic Spirits works.He knew that only Ea could kill Caster etc. The only Servant that was unknown at that point was Berserker.If he knew his shit about history he would know that Rider and Lancer dont have anything t counter Ea OR GoB spams,Rider cant fight against Enkidu, and lets not even mention every other HAX NP he has inside GoB. Even if Saber had Avalon he can work he is way around it.He only lost in Fate because of playing around to much. Irrational fear about not following his "plans" cost Tokiomi the war. Rider vs Assassin Do you really think that D Rank Agility would be faster than A Rank Agility in that distance? The Problem with Kayneth was that it was a 100% gamble,the kind where you are sure for victory for no goddamn reason. The proper course there would be to avoid the Master of Saber,attack someone else, and collect info on him. |
ssjokgJan 26, 2015 4:17 AM
-kV- said: HentaiPriest said: None of the Servants there can do anything to him even if they go at him together. No EMIYA,No Avalon,No Dark Sakura.I cant imagine him losing there even with all his arrogance. Except how does Tokiomi know that? For all he knows, X Servant could have a shield that could block Ea. Or a Servant who perfectly counters GoB. One of whom happened to be right there, engaging Archer in battle and apparently countering his every move. That was what Tokiomi was seeing, and with a Servant like that plus three others present that'll take advantage of the first opportunity they see, combined with Archer's own recklessness that'll only go out of control, there was a fairly high probability that things would end up too disastrously. Everything would spiral out of control and go to hell. The presence of one Servant is okay, but two Servants is bad, three is really really bad, and when there's a fourth present that can seemingly counter his GoB, that is REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY FREAKING BAD. For all Tokiomi knew at the time, that unknown Berserker was capable of negating Archer's assault all on his own (really, for all he knew, it could've been Enkidu), and three other Servants just makes the whole situation hopeless. If they all ganged up on him, it would've been four-against-one. To have let Gilgamesh fight one-on-four under such conditions would've been a terrible risk that may have lost the war for him, despite possessing the greatest Servant. It would've been nothing but blind arrogance for him as a Master to assume that "hey I have THE STRONGEST SERVANT so I can't possibly lose to anyone right?!?!?". Not to mention Tokiomi already had an established plan that could otherwise win him the war. Of course he would retreat, silly, even if he had to use a Command Seal to do so. The problem wasn't hiding Gilgy's massive treasury, but letting his arrogance get out of control. ... Well, that's all from me. I'm not one for F/Z vs F/SN discussions. |
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MercifulPriest said: But thats exactly what he thought."hey I have THE STRONGEST SERVANT so I can't possibly lose to anyone right?!?!?". . |
MercifulPriest said: REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY FREAKING BAD. Magic. |
The sun is a deadly laser |
HentaiPriest said: Archer could kill Caster even without them.The only reason he didnt was because he wanted to ambush Shirou in some way.Rin and Shirou DONT have the power to face Kuzuki and Caster AND achieve victory.The only reason they do is because a)Lancer fights Archer b)Archer kills Caster before she counterattacks. As I said, they were Masters in the war nonetheless. Caster was plain stupid not to kill them right there. Even if she believed they could pose no danger, they could still be a nuisance and a threat. And sure enough, next time they do appear, they come with a Lancer class Servant in tow. As it turns out, the actual duel isn't even a curbstomp either, considering Rin nearly defeats Caster. Caster had no obligation to listen to Archer at that point seeing how as she already controlled him. It's like in other stories where the bad guy doesn't finish off the good guy when he has the chance, and the good guy returns and bites him in the ass. Tokiomi summoned Gil because he KNEW about his legend and how the rank of Heroic Spirits works.He knew that only Ea could kill Caster etc. The only Servant that was unknown at that point was Berserker.If he knew his shit about history he would know that Rider and Lancer dont have anything t counter Ea OR GoB spams,Rider cant fight against Enkidu, and lets not even mention every other HAX NP he has inside GoB.Even if Saber had Avalon he can work he is way around it.He only lost in Fate because of playing around to much.Irrational fear about not following his "plans" cost Tokiomi the war. I doubt Tokiomi even knew who they all were at that moment. Even if he did, that one unknown Berserker is still a danger, because he could have X Ea-blocking shield or Enkidu-breaking power, etc. Add in the fact that Berserker was easily blocking Gil's attacks, and Gil insulted and planned to attack the others, Tokiomi was basically risking his Servant in a 4 v 1 bout, where he knows nothing of their Noble Phantasms or extent of their abilities. That's not strategic whatsoever. Riider vs Assassin Do you really think that D Rank Agility would be faster than A Rank Agility in that distance? Whatever his agility rank helped him block an assassination attempt on Waver earlier. The fact that he just sat there nonchalantly tells me that he did not sense any immediate deadly intent from the Assassins or attack on his Master at that moment. The Problem with Kayneth was that it was a 100% gamble,the kind where you are sure for victory for no goddamn reason. The proper course there would be to avoid the Master of Saber,attack someone else, and collect info on him. I don't believe it was a complete gamble. There is rationale behind the attack. MercifulPriest said: One of whom happened to be right there, engaging Archer in battle and apparently countering his every move. That was what Tokiomi was seeing, and with a Servant like that plus three others present that'll take advantage of the first opportunity they see, combined with Archer's own recklessness that'll only go out of control, there was a fairly high probability that things would end up too disastrously. Everything would spiral out of control and go to hell. The presence of one Servant is okay, but two Servants is bad, three is really really bad, and when there's a fourth present that can seemingly counter his GoB, that is REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY FREAKING BAD. For all Tokiomi knew at the time, that unknown Berserker was capable of negating Archer's assault all on his own (really, for all he knew, it could've been Enkidu), and three other Servants just makes the whole situation hopeless. If they all ganged up on him, it would've been four-against-one.To have let Gilgamesh fight one-on-four under such conditions would've been a terrible risk that may have lost the war for him, despite possessing the greatest Servant. It would've been nothing but blind arrogance for him as a Master to assume that "hey I have THE STRONGEST SERVANT so I can't possibly lose to anyone right?!?!?". Not to mention Tokiomi already had an established plan that could otherwise win him the war. Of course he would retreat, silly, even if he had to use a Command Seal to do so. The problem wasn't hiding Gilgy's massive treasury, but letting his arrogance get out of control. Yes. This. |
| It's not that I'm tired of argument itself, I like arguing in general, I was just feeling lazy about writing a decent response. I'm a natural lurker so yea. :P -kV- said: Well it is a war - there will be gambles and risks. It is a gamble, but one that's isn't completely unfavorable either. Other teams wouldn't be intervening. Saber is wounded and can be dealt with by Lancer. Kayneth may not know Kerry's cards, but neither did Kerry about Kayneth and his Hydrargyrum. Point I am making is I don't agree with some people who act as if that was the stupidest move ever. It only became dangerous when Kay took the bullet. If he had retreated after the shoulder hit, he would have learned how Kerry fights in a direct confrontation, using guns and having the ability of innate time control. So it wouldn't have been a complete defeat. Let me tell you about war. War never changes. Wars are all about minimizing risks and being efficient. In fact, direct confrontations of any kind were fairly rare. Fortified positions (castles and such) were never contested directly, unless there was no other choice. There are so many instances of big strong armies failing miserably against a much weaker force simply due to putting to much faith in their raw strength. Skirmishes, outmaneuvering and breaking supply lines was what won wars. And the best way you can do that better than your enemy is by having more information than the enemy. In fact, one of the biggest reasons why Allies won WWII wasn't the strength and strategies of their own forcer, but the fact that they had superior intel over the Axis. Also, looking on an individual basis, soldiers always wore at least two sets of weapons. Something long and armor-piercing like polearms combined with something shorter and slashy like swords would be a common combination, but there were all kinds of. In short, it was a common sense to be prepared to deal with different situations. Why am I talking so much about all this? Because Kayneth possessed none of this common sense at all. He chose high-risk option when he wasn't forced to. He forced direct confrontation on enemy stronghold. He had no tangible intel on Kerry that would help him in fight. He only prepared one trick up his sleeve. He didn't prepare any form of back-up plan. His entire "strategy" consisted of choosing the wrong option. Oh, and speaking of retreating. Interesting trivia: In battles that did happen, majority of the casualties happened after the actual battle was done, during the routing phase (that's one of the reasons why cavalry rocks). It's very hard to protect yourself while you're running away and same would be true for Kayneth, especially since he didn't have any safe way of retreating (Hydrargyrum doesn't help him there, if it did he wouldn't need to run in the first place). That's what I meant when I said that he doesn't have any surefire contingency plan. If he had, and if he went there primarily to test Kerry, it would still be stupid, but wouldn't be the stupidest move ever. I could swallow that. |
Stev said: ayy lmao |
HungryPriest said: It's not that I'm tired of argument itself, I like arguing in general, I was just feeling lazy about writing a decent response. I'm a natural lurker so yea. :P Understandable. I might get lazy after a while too. L Fortified positions (castles and such) were never contested directly, unless there was no other choice. There are so many instances of big strong armies failing miserably against a much weaker force simply due to putting to much faith in their raw strength. Skirmishes, outmaneuvering and breaking supply lines was what won wars. And the best way you can do that better than your enemy is by having more information than the enemy. Fortified positions, especially castles, were critical usually because of their ability to prevent the enemy from reaching and breaking into the interior. Kayneth may have originally been testing the waters, but whatever bounded field or magical defenses were in the Einzbern forest were easily circumvented or broken by him as he easily waltzed his way to the front door. It's not completely irrational to assume the greater protection lies outside than in inside. Plus considering the defensive position he managed to established at the Hyatt, whatever magical defense inside the castle would be something he would be familiar with and likely know how to overcome. He chose high-risk option when he wasn't forced to. He forced direct confrontation on enemy stronghold. He had no tangible intel on Kerry that would help him in fight. He only prepared one trick up his sleeve. He didn't prepare any form of back-up plan. His entire "strategy" consisted of choosing the wrong option. I would venture and say he had other magical tricks up his sleeve if he got his wish of a 1 v1 magus duel. But with an offensive/defensive weapon like his Mystic Code, combined with his own knowledge on magic, he wasn't walking blinding into a hornet's nest. Though, he *did* have a back-up option: Lancer, whom he could always summon to help him GTFO if necessary. But that's where his pride really bites him in the ass. It's very hard to protect yourself while you're running away and same would be true for Kayneth, especially since he didn't have any safe way of retreating (Hydrargyrum doesn't help him there, if it did he wouldn't need to run in the first place). That's what I meant when I said that he doesn't have any surefire contingency plan. If he had, and if he went there primarily to test Kerry, it would still be stupid, but wouldn't be the stupidest move ever. I could swallow that. A lot of the casualties in those retreats also stemmed from disorganized retreat formation and low morale. Anyway, Kayneth would literally need to just retreat the exact same way he entered. All the traps and magical defenses on that path would have already been activated, and he would have his Mystic Code to cover his back. If things got too hairy, he could also call Lancer and scram. But that's when he decided to go full braindead and keep pursuing Kerry deeper into the castle while bleeding from a wound. |
| I find the whole Kayneth conversation funnier now because I just watched the fourth episode of Fate/Cero, and just at the beginning they make fun of his strategy to break into the mansion. |
| I'd go with emobubbles, but someone else already had it, damn bastard. |
-kV- said: Fortified positions, especially castles, were critical usually because of their ability to prevent the enemy from reaching and breaking into the interior. Kayneth may have originally been testing the waters, but whatever bounded field or magical defenses were in the Einzbern forest were easily circumvented or broken by him as he easily waltzed his way to the front door. It's not completely irrational to assume the greater protection lies outside than in inside. Plus considering the defensive position he managed to established at the Hyatt, whatever magical defense inside the castle would be something he would be familiar with and likely know how to overcome. "Fortification" can be any form of preparation against an attack, walls being one kind. The advantage of home turf in case of the Einzberns was that Kerry could prepare whatever he can there as long as he had enough time. And he had time. What if he had turned the entire castle into a gas chamber? There are plenty of toxins that don't leave smell and are extremely deadly. Or he could have used any other non-magical method that cannot be detected by human senses? Be creative like implementing energy and/or sonic weapons? None of which Kayneth could have countered. We already know that Einzbern didn't lack in the finance department. I would venture and say he had other magical tricks up his sleeve if he got his wish of a 1 v1 magus duel. But with an offensive/defensive weapon like his Mystic Code, combined with his own knowledge on magic, he wasn't walking blinding into a hornet's nest. Though, he *did* have a back-up option: Lancer, whom he could always summon to help him GTFO if necessary. But that's where his pride really bites him in the ass. See above. Assumption is a bad basis for strategy. As for the Lancer, yea. He could have. But he wouldn't have. If you have an option, but never intend to use it it's the same thing as not having it in the first place. A lot of the casualties in those retreats also stemmed from disorganized retreat formation and low morale. Anyway, Kayneth would literally need to just retreat the exact same way he entered. All the traps and magical defenses on that path would have already been activated, and he would have his Mystic Code to cover his back. If things got too hairy, he could also call Lancer and scram. But that's when he decided to go full braindead and keep pursuing Kerry deeper into the castle while bleeding from a wound. What would have prevented Kerry from pursuing him and using his bullet again? If Kayneth summoned Lancer, Kerry could get Seiba as well to distract Lancer while he finishes Kayneth. |
Stev said: ayy lmao |
| Well, in my opinion on the matter about whether or not Kayneth was an idiot, weighing what he should and should not have known along with his current circumstances and his arrogant attitude within the war, I have thought it over for a while and have come to the conclusion that- emoblossom123 said: I find the whole Kayneth conversation funnier now because I just watched the fourth episode of Fate/Cero, and just at the beginning they make fun of his strategy to break into the mansion. WAIT, THE FOURTH EPISODE IS OUT? *runs off* |
CarenPriestessJan 26, 2015 9:06 PM
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CookingPriest said: Gil is ONE servant where it is fucking pointless to hide his NP. Because he has TOO MANY. He has INFINITE NPs. And it does not matter if you counter ONE TWO or THREE, he has dozens more with different effects. Pulling him back was retardation of DEENFSN level. So was Kayneth waltzing into FREAKING EINZBERN THE FOUNDER OF THE WAR, Mansion where a man who fucked his hideout lives. That's like if in FPS you get headshotted by a sniper, get pissed and then run screaming towards him through an open field only to get shot in the face again. King Party was bullshit too. I literally should go through every Zero episode one day and dismantle the so called "Those masters had so much strategy!" argument, episode by episode -__- You forget Archer @_@ |
The sun is a deadly laser |
mira-lala said: You forget Archer @_@ Archer just has 2 skills: Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V |
chickenonthepan said: mira-lala said: You forget Archer @_@ Archer just has 2 skills: Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V Tea  |
The sun is a deadly laser |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| @-Kv- Rin and Shirou are literally no threat to her.Being Masters has nothing to do with it.Rin and Shirou would have died if Archer hadnt arrived at that time. Yes Caster didnt have to listen to Archer but who knows how he would react if she didnt. Tokiomi was using Assassin to watch the fight.Lancer,Saber and Rider revealed their identities.And no you dont claim to have won the war the moment you summoned your Servant and then you get cold feet. There is no reason to believe that Berserker could keep up with Gil next time.And since Gil "revealed" his NP already it would be smarter to end it right there. Fearing the chance of them having something to block Ea is ridiculous since he sacrifices Assassin JUST for Rider when it was Berserker that caused "problems" for Gil.And Berserker wasnt doing it "easy", if it was easy he wouldnt be running around . There is a big difference between the two scenes,namely the positions of the chars.Rider is right next to Waver in Caster's lair. There is no rationale behind the attack. His rationale is "I am a great magus and he is a monkey I can win".That isnt rationale. especially after the humiliation in the hotel. Yeah sending Lancer to Saber would totally work...And Kerry could summon Saber as well. |
| I want archer vs Gil (I know it will go down the same but still!) |
 Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
black1blade said: I want archer vs Gil (I know it will go down the same but still!) It'll end differently. Shirou is some random teenage boy faker, so Gil took it supah easy on him. It might be different on Archer, depending on Gil's reaction. Especially when he has Enki. Tho, he's pretty bad at combat, so it's possible for Archer to do what Shirou did. |
The sun is a deadly laser |
| Saber vs. Archer. All out battle. Excalibur and UBW, use all those shit. |
| Bassically repeat of first half of Gil vs Saber but His in UBW pretty much says it all. |
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Mathias2001 said: ?????I like F/Z servants slightly more than the F/SN ones before I watched F/HA |
| Saying you watched a VN isn't that weird, watching subbed Anime is basically reading so... |
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Mathias2001 said: 1.F/Z Gilgamesh 2.F/SN Archer 3.F/SN Rider (HF) 4.F/Z Rider 5.F/Z Caster 6.F/SN Caster 7.F/Z Saber 8.F/SN Saber 9.F/Z Lancer 10.F/SN Berserker 11.F/Z Berserker 12.F/SN Lancer 13.F/SN Assasin 14.F/Z Assasin I see you ranked Diarmurd before Cu on an FSN forum. I too like to live dangerously. |
| I'd go with emobubbles, but someone else already had it, damn bastard. |
emoblossom123 said: Mathias2001 said: 1.F/Z Gilgamesh 2.F/SN Archer 3.F/SN Rider (HF) 4.F/Z Rider 5.F/Z Caster 6.F/SN Caster 7.F/Z Saber 8.F/SN Saber 9.F/Z Lancer 10.F/SN Berserker 11.F/Z Berserker 12.F/SN Lancer 13.F/SN Assasin 14.F/Z Assasin I see you ranked Diarmurd before Cu on an FSN forum. I too like to live dangerously. He has yours truly ranked above Redman Faker and even at number one, therefore his list is valid. |
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ZeroDragon said: emoblossom123 said: I see you ranked Diarmurd before Cu on an FSN forum. I too like to live dangerously. He has yours truly ranked above Redman Faker and even at number one, therefore his list is valid. true |
| I'd go with emobubbles, but someone else already had it, damn bastard. |
| Emoboy Deermud above Bro Cu... Derp Casta above Waifu Casta This list is dangerous to post. |
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CookingPriest said: but deermud cursed the grailEmoboy Deermud above Bro Cu... Derp Casta above Waifu Casta This list is dangerous to post. |
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