What is peoples problem with this anime?

Niteshade said:
-smh-

Honestly, I dont know. The anime is in itself pretty awesome to me.

And I not even going to bother reading those posties above mine.

Why cant you people just accept that each of you WILL and WOULD have different tastes in different series and LN. Thats what make humans unique. OPINIONS, DIFFERENT TASTES.

Geez, all this useless banter about which one is better than the other. Fucking useless! Either you like it or you dont. Dont try to force your opinions on others, Geez.

darkreaperix said:


No if you don't share their taste and especially if you like Mahouka,you either have poor taste or according to wrenchbread a psychological disorder in his reply from an old ep thread.

Danpmss said:


Is pretty much this. But as the light novels had even more focuse on talking about magic (trust me, they made it poorly, even if wasting an entire episode explaining one thing or two), I have to disagree about that point (is like Umineko and Muv Luv Alternative, there is so much infodump altogether that is nearly impossible to adapt into an anime). Mad House tried to adapt something that is not possible to, in my opinion (not in 23 min. per episode, maybe like Psycho Pass Re-edited, but not like this).

wrenchbread said:


I just deprived you of ammunition that you tried using to discredit what I feel about the series.

Again, it's funny how you say it has well-developed characters when fans even say the characters don't change all that much -> development is non-existant.

The world-building I would say is actually incoherent. Have you actually sat down to consider the implications of a global food shortage caused by global cooling? Even if 1st world nations were able to weather it out, food prices would skyrocket, food would have to be rationed, civil unrest aplenty. Honestly, Japan wouldn't have survived WW3 and the food shortage since they rely heavily on imported foodstuffs, but in the Mahoukaverse they're one of the last few countries in the world to remain strong and independent, while others, like China, US, Russia, are consolidated with neighbor countries. It makes no sense. This is actually one of the many reasons why Japan is a Mary Sue nation in Mahouka. Why would mages ban nuclear weapons then make themselves the nuclear weapons? This is some comical logic.

And how is the story awesome when thus far it's just reading/watching Tatsuya curbstomp everything? It isn't until the more recent volumes he had more formidable foes, like extradimensional vampire demons, but he lived because one of his enemies hesitated ("not suited for combat" or something).

There's much more I can delve into to show show you how ludicrous some of the plot developments are.

This most recent episode still points out that the Japanese Self-Defense Force still exists. I thought with WW3 breaking out, they would've repealed Section 9 of the Japanese constitution by then. Hell, the BETAverse had a great reason for why Japan became the Empire of Japan again. This is what I mean by oversight, because Kouki addresses this and much more.

The world-building I would say is actually incoherent. Have you actually sat down to consider the implications of a global food shortage caused by global cooling? Even if 1st world nations were able to weather it out, food prices would skyrocket, food would have to be rationed, civil unrest aplenty. Honestly, Japan wouldn't have survived WW3 and the food shortage since they rely heavily on imported foodstuffs, but in the Mahoukaverse they're one of the last few countries in the world to remain strong and independent, while others, like China, US, Russia, are consolidated with neighbor countries. It makes no sense. This is actually one of the many reasons why Japan is a Mary Sue nation in Mahouka. Why would mages ban nuclear weapons then make themselves the nuclear weapons? This is some comical logic.

about food shortage,you are comparing thia to the real world,2nd its in the future who says Japan did not become fully dependent by that time and they have been always technologically advance.

wrenchbread said:


Well have you considered what kind of an effect a global food shortage would have on the world, coupled with extreme cold temperatures? Their world is based on ours, so it'd make sense to expect some sort of response based on reality. That up there isn't even a concrete argument and sounds more like baseless conjecture on your part.

Copy and pasting from a previous post I made:

You know what, have a list of how Japan is a Mary Sue nation. From the wikis



The JSDF question is totally relevant. It's 2095, but why is the JSDF still around? It's not even an opinion, like why is Article 9 still alive and kicking?

solidsnake994 said:

Note that I'm purely talking about the adaptation here. Part of the fault clearly lies with the producers behind it, but that doesn't excuse the obvious writing deficiencies present, which to me are obvious and exhibit themselves quite often. I respect that others may like the series and see things differently. Just don't go saying it's the best thing ever though, because there's plenty of shows with better writing out there.

ML/A was way less extreme in peddling Japanese nationalism and jingoism than Mahouka.

Japan suffered considerably with the invasion of the BETA in 1998. It got so bad that the Americans thought it'd be better to make a tactical retreat and come back some other time because they saw what they kind of havoc they wrought in Europe and Asia. Because of this, America pulled out military support, thus violating the US-Japan Security Treaty, and Japan got real salty over this. They also looked like idiots trying to fight to the death to defend their homeland when it was clear they weren’t going to win. The Americans were actually reasonable with their suggestion, but in the BETAverse the IJA were all YAMATO DAMASHII. It was dumb pride and they suffered for it.

Americans didn’t fear Japan, they had no reason to. They thrived militarily and economically when everyone else has BETA knocking on their doorsteps. They supplied the world’s countries with TSFs and the CIA is still meddling in foreign affairs. They just had other plans for getting rid of the BETA through the use of G-bombs, which they also created. They sought to sabotage Alternative IV so Alternative V is the method they would go with to eliminate them all. (Alternative V is independent from Operation Babylon, which was just something they included so the UN would accept the scorched earth tactic.) Support for Alt V increased with the successful dropping of two G-bombs on the Yokohama Hive in Operation Lucifer when they saw how effective it was in capturing it intact. You don’t need to send in a lot of ground forces or stock a lot of munitions. (If you didn’t notice, this parallels the real world where the US dropped two atomic bombs on Japan, which didn't happen in the BETAverse timeline). This G-bombing pissed Japan off greatly because they got hit without warning, but nevertheless, the Hive infiltration was successful; the first ever.

That was the whole reason they tried to take out Yokohama UN base with the HSST because Alternative IV was being researched there. It wasn’t because of fear of Japan or whatever narrative you’re trying to make up.

You'd actually sooner argue that America is the Mary Sue nation of the BETAverse than Japan based on the above.

As for Yuuko, she follows the common trope of the genius scientist who gives valuable info to the cast so they can do their job, whom you as Takeru actually question because she’s gotten people killed, but you realize she wrestles with cognitive dissonance all the damn time under that calm, intelligent demeanor of hers from doing ethically/morally questionable things. She is far from a Sue, far from a “perfect/ideal” character. You should really look over what constitutes a Sue before you throw accusations around. Just use this a general test to see: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CommonMarySueTraits

Tama was already established as a skilled/talented sharpshooter and that whole shooting the downed HSST out of the sky scene was taken straight out from Evangelion, if you haven’t noticed. If you were to point out egregious things in ML, this is probably one of the least offensive. Now, Takeru is a pretty damn good pilot, but only in comparison to the small amount of people he actually fought with. We don’t know how he’d perform against someone like Mana or Walken or even Sagiri. I wouldn’t make a definitive comment on this simply because we don’t know enough, but man, that scene at Sadogashima Hive infiltration still gives me chills. That scene had a dual purpose of having him overcome his fear of the BETA and death and for us to see the fruits of his training.

As for that part with keeping the Imperial government intact, I’d agree with that being contrived. In the grand scheme of things, I think there are a few reasons why this choice was made. First, this is just my conjecture, it’s to market to a Japanese audience. Japanese otaku are proven to be more a conservative fandom. But here’s the kicker, I think Kouki tried to make a point that the hardcore right-winged Japanese are nuts and do not serve in the best interest of humanity or the world at large. The whole coup arc, with the joint army made up of UN, US, and IJA loyalists, amongst them all, the one with the most reasonable voice was Walken, who condemned the rebels for wasting resources and fighting over nationalist bullshit when there’s BETA on their doorstep. Takeru, the audience surrogate, unequivocally agreed with him that those guys are crazy and questioned the whole point and meaning of the coup when there’s bigger fish to fry. Not to mention the cast is part of the UN, not the IJA. I’d say Kouki took a pretty balanced and nuanced view on politics and philosophy compared to Satou. No one is completely right or wrong.

The problem is that in Mahouka’s timeline there is no mention of what happened to Article 9 or the US-Japan Security Treaty or anything prior to 1999. So there is no point of comparison as for as much as we know, history did not diverge from ours in the Mahoukaverse prior to 1999.

>A character being too badass overpowered (or not) does not interfer in the awesome story being developed

This is a straw man argument. Yuuko does not go under Badass. Genius, yes. But not Badass. She’s only brains and there’s only so much she herself can do alone.

>She is basically Tatsuya there



To even compare Yuuko in terms of abilities, titles, and plot-bending to Tatsuya again proves how incapable you are of discerning the difference in writing between Kouki and Satou. This is what I meant by misrepresenting and misinterpreting. I thought you’d sooner be arguing that Takeru is a Stu, but Yuuko? I seriously want whatever you’re smoking right now.

...plot-bending to Tatsuya again proves how incapable you are of discerning the difference in writing between Kouki and Satou.

nina4life said:
A few things.
They focus too much on trying to explain magic, but since they don't have neccessary time to do it they do it halfheartedly. This makes most explanation incomplete, sound boring and completely unneccessary.

To explain magic (point above) they sacrifice character development. Most side characters have had little to no backstory or even screen time. Take NSC arc as example. They present that "ancient-magic" guy that doubts himself. Can't remember his name. Then they completely ignore him whole arc only to bring him back as someone "they need" for final battle.

Other school characters suffer same fate. Chairman. What development did she get? She blushes to Tatsuya and finds him interesting, but that is the reaction of every single girl in this show except for Erika. There is nothing to distinguish them. They are ALL the same.

Boys don't have it any better either. They are all either jealous of Tatsuya or weed friends of Tatsuya that get screen time only when he, conviniently, needs them.

Another thing sacrificed for sake of mumbo-jumbo talk is world intrigues. Ten families, alliances, political disputes. All of that is presented as something big in intro sequence and almost completelly forgotten at this point. Ten families keeps being mentioned but nothing around it is ever explained more deeply. Nothing. Ever.

How did they come into power? Did they form alliance? Why do others fear them as much? How do people generally feel about being governed by ten "bullies"?

Miyuki and Tatsuya are both insanely strong and she is soooo obsessed with him I feel like her only goal in life to get finally f***** by him. I was given explanation by LN reader as to why that is so, but anime hasn't given any. Waiting 2nd season to learn why character is as obnoxious as that is unacceptable in my opinion when it comes to anime.

And most importantly, the villains. Do I need to even mention what is wrong with them? They put Nazi generals in "Allo, allo" to shame with how retarded they are. There is not a single redeeming quality for them. They wouldn't be a threat to kindergarten kids, let alone magicians.

There you go, all of my reasons this show is 4/10 for me.

wrenchbread said:
I gotta point out, your posts are getting really hard to read.

America was not afraid of Yuuko nor Japan. Is America afraid of the world with the NSA hacking into every country? Is China afraid of America since they tried hacking into US service industries? What exactly are you going on about? You know there is a more or less even split of Alt IV and Alt V supporters in America right? That’s why they made a deal with lending Yuuko the two Susanoo prototypes.

The Americans were kinda scummy, but not afraid, because they wanted Alt V to be used rather than Alt IV. Alt V is seen as a viable solution to the BETA problem because of how they captured the Yokohama Hive successfully and thus felt pouring resources into Alt IV was a waste. Again, just to make sure you’re reading it properly, Alt V became a viable solution to the BETA problem because they demonstrated with the Yokohama Hive that you can take out one with just G-bombs. Because of this, the Americans felt just bombing the Hives is easier and faster. The reason why Yuuko opposed Alt V is because G-bombing leaves the earth lifeless and sterile. She also didn't know what kind of lasting effects it has on the environment or people. It's essentially a scorched earth tactic for how little they and we know. She also knew the Americans weren’t exactly nice people.

The Americans trying to sabotage Alt IV is ultimately under-the-table political dealings because they wanted access to G-elements from the Hives. By being the sole manufacturer of G-bombs, this means they will be participating in every Hive infiltration as part of Alt V. They use G-bombs to bomb Hive, collect G-elements from Hive, use G-elements to make more G-bombs or other stuff other countries can’t have. Rinse and repeat. That’s the whole point. The Americans want complete control of G-elements. Alt IV is a UN-funded project (not US), so if it succeeds, that means the Americans will lose out on obtaining G-elements and other countries have their shot of harvesting them. The Americans WANT to keep that power imbalance.

Plus, the fucked up Earth from The Day After was not foreseen by anybody. They didn't know that using that many G-bombs at once would cause such strong gravitation anomalies on a global scale. No one could’ve predicted it and so everyone suffered for it. Murphy’s Law.

>She IS Tatsuya in that world, with even more influence. The only thing she can do is piloting a TSF... wait, she created an entire new system for it, so she probably can. Well, we'll never know, just like your point about the other pilots bellow

I said before, she only shares ONE aspect with Tatsuya. Her influence is befitting of someone her rank, so I don’t see what the big deal is. She’s a high-ranking military official who regularly speaks to what’s-her-face’s father from the Ministry of Home Affairs, who actually does most of the behind-the-scenes heavy lifting for Yuuko when she needs something that’s beyond her scope done. Dude’s literally a Japanese CIA agent.

She and a team of other people made XM3. Let’s not bend the facts here. She spearheaded the project, but other people contributed. Also, implying she can pilot a TSF is like implying a fighter jet designer can pilot a fighter jet or a game designer is good at their own game. I’m sure she or anyone really can pilot one if they’re trained for it, so I’m not sure I understand the logic behind this. Anyone can pilot a TSF in the BETAverse with the proper training. Piloting one well is a different matter.

I dunno why you’re hung up on my comment about Takeru’s piloting abilities. We’ve seen him pilot with and against a small cast of people. He’s only ever fought against other pilots in the XM3 trials. If you don’t remember, the XM3 trials were not easy for Takeru and squad even with the new OS installed on their more modern Shiranuis. The veteran pilots put up a great fight against them even with their old OS and Gekishins. It goes to show that pilot skill is a bit higher on the totem pole than pilot talent. Now imagine if those UN guys had modern TSFs and XM3 installed. They’d probably win.

>Adding even more motives about how better prepared and great japanese people are in MLA universe. Ok.

Because Tama or Takeru or the rest of the Japanese cast at Yokohama UN base is representative of all Japanese people? They’re only human. Skilled in whatever it is they do, but only as skilled as other skilled humans are. Did you forget Takeru died? Numerous times in fact! You know, that up there is a dumb statement to make. Did you forget how in Unlimited there was a BETA landfall warning for Japan, and the horde broke through two defense lines toward Yokohama UN base? The third line held them back and everyone breathed a sigh of relief.

Did you forget that American F-22A Raptors came to save the day for the coup arc? Mana was the one who killed Sagiri but that was more of a fellow Japanese soldier to fellow Japanese soldier moment. Again, Japanese people in the BETAverse on average aren’t portrayed in the best light because of all their blind nationalism that the other Japanese characters don’t care for. I brought up Walken and i guess I should bring up Thesleff too since they’re the two American soldiers we actually get a chance

It really depends how you define prepared. In countries with BETA knocking on their doorsteps every so often, I’m sure they got such defense lines set up and people will die trying to hold them. Look at the Suez Canal.

Meanwhile, the Americans have this whole system where they had other nations keep the BETA at bay so they don’t have to move a finger. They only needed to supply them with TSFs and munitions and the US in turn gets paid and national security. Win-win. Red Shift in Alaska. Stockpile of G-bombs and G-elements. Only country with stealth TSFs (the Americans were anticipating a post-BETA world). So who’s better prepared again?

>Arc involving civil war between Japanese loyalists and rebels features mostly Japanese fighters

What did you expect? This arc was probably the one time we actually saw TSF vs TSF combat. Walken going down was due to the CIA sabotaging his TSF. If you don’t mind going out of MLA for a bit and into TDA, the Walken vs Sagiri “rematch” was neck and neck (‘cept Sagiri was piloting a Rafale rather than a Shiranui). We can only speculate how Takeru performs against other top TSF pilots in the world because our only point of reference is the XM3 trials. Maybe all the guys at Yukon base are better than Tatsuya.

>The point of the comparison was to show that they would twist our actual world's logic anyway.

OK, two points, because the line contains a false assumption and a misuse of a term.

First, an author “twisting” logic implies something akin to making up shit that goes against real-world logical thought. There’s a logical progression of stuff in the BETAverse timeline and developments that you can extrapolate from and they pretty much mirror real-world philosophies, thought, and structure. Hell, you can check out how the BETA spread via this time-lapse thing Yuuko had and how the countries responded.

Second, it was clear from the start the BETAverse is an alternate universe with distinct differences, but then they extrapolated onward based those key differences while keeping in mind each nation’s real-world philosophies and policies. Due to WW2 ending early and the Cold War starting earlier as a result, the Americans established a moon base by the 1960s to beat the Russians. The Cold War never ended for them even when the BETA invaded. They might be altering history for the story in MLA (but it’s an alternate universe anyway, so…??), but their world operates with pretty much the same logic politics-wise as our world. I don’t see any twisting because their policies expand on their real-world counterparts. Russia is communist. Americans got their dirty hands in everything. Japan is right-winged nationalist. Though the UN is actually stronger in the BETAverse than our real-world UN, but they’re still pretty much the neutral party. Political maneuvering everywhere with the US doing a lot of the really scummy stuff. None of the countries in the BETAverse are stupid. Everyone’s trying to counter each other before they get the rug pulled out from under them.

Yuuko's not what you called overpowered. She's a genius, get it straight. She also happens to be good at manipulating Takeru because he's none-the-wiser. I don't see her out in the frontlines fighting. She's in the back doing administrative duties as she should because the whole Alt IV project depends on her. She also made conscious decisions that she paid dearly for. So how is she OP, again? She’s only as smart as our top physicists in their area of research and only as powerful as her military position details.

The fact that I love ML/A and loathe Mahouka owes to the fact that execution matters. Just because they both share similarities doesn't mean that it's an automatic pass from me. Otherwise, why write stories when we can just write ideas? I don't gush over ideas. You'd then have to explain the disparity in reception between Log Horizon and SAO when they share the same ideas.

fear80 said:

I personally love these type of stories but Mahouka basically goes no where whether in the 24 Episode anime or in the 12 LN's I read. I still don't know where the fuck the MC is going on with all that, making it feel like a slice of life show.

Newhopes said:
Apart from the boring story and god awful characters?

I only watch for the LOLZ from god-sama now.

Danpmss said:


I found that to be actually funny, since you gave 10/10 to something like Infinite Stratos.

Danpmss said:


I don't know from where all the bullshit about Slice of Life came from, but I just saw something similar in volume 5.

Danpmss said:


About Tatsuya's emotions, they were pretty well stablished (even in your thread), I don't even need to discuss about it (I just have to link it, for everyone to see the points made in there):
http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1234271&show=0

Danpmss said:


Mahouka is not perfect at all (it has flaws), but is not poorly thought/written either, is pretty good and loyal to its rules (even when Tatsuya became enormously overpowered later).

The anime adaptation thought is utterly crap, unfortunately.

So are you saying that they wanted to acquire G-Elements(their main purpose) by detroying the entire base along with the Hive (as stated by Yuuko)?

Who is better prepared = Who got more power and possible opportunities to be a Superpower (the political term) in the world without BETA.

The Japanese people would considerably be leading the world and it's actions towards the world reconquest with Alternative IV executed sucessfully (that unfornately didn't happened as the expected: Sadogashima Hive incident).

That is also my point for why the Americans tried to sabotage them in the first place, btw.

I don't remember to have said anything about that. Actually, you were the one to point that out in your previous quote, so, why are you debating your own comments?

About that, I was obviously refering to the political logic of our world (my entire point in that paragraph) not to the world itself.

"...and by power, this doesn't apply AT ALL just for Psychichal, Magical or Supernatural powers, your mind can also be a great weapon, and in some cases, your best."

She is OP in every angle you can look at her. She do whatever she want and control basically everything by the shadows (She has contacts, she knows too much, she can make something that is not even in her hands to decide happen).
I read MLA two times already, and this is basically what I can tell from her behavior so far. She has power to control things and events that she wasn't supposed to at all.

FontSize72LOL said:


Pretty much. If you watch from an Ironic point of view this show is actually quite entertaining. This is probably one of the biggest train-wrecks I've watched though, and because of that i cant wait to see where this is going next.

wrenchbread said:
This is the reason why I keep questioning myself if I should keep responding to someone who has displayed on numerous occasions that he has a shaky grasp of reading comprehension not just in these arguments, but also in the work we're analyzing. Otherwise, there’s no point in asking these stupid questions and making equally as stupid observations.

I’m done with you.

Because to America, in the grand scheme of things, it's a small sacrifice to make. This is such a simple concept that I can't believe I have to address this. They get to take out Alt IV and all its research and personnel at Yokohama base if their HSST successfully crashed into them, but they lose out on maybe retrieving the leftover G-elements from the Yokohama Hive. HOWEVER, they get to go forward with G-bombing the other 20 or so odd Hives and capture them for their G-elements because Alt IV is no longer a viable plan (because it’s dead, duh). That's 20 something odd Hives worth of G-elements that America gets to keep for only themselves. Not to mention if the Americans went into the destroyed UN base/Hive to retrieve the leftover G-elements there, it’d be kind of suspicious, don’t you think? They did violate the US-Japan Security Treaty after all, so the Americans have no official business to be on Japanese soil investigating wreckage. So rather than letting others like the Japanese or UN keep the G-elements (if they still can), the Americans thought it’s worth it to destroy that stockpile there and just look forward to the other 20 or so Hives. Think, dude, think!

However, the HSST only fell in Unlimited and not in Alternative because America had enough Alt IV support within the gov’t in that timeline (thanks to Takeru’s actions) to cockblock the order to crash an HSST into Yokohama UN base. You also have to remember that the XM3 system was political leverage. Takeru actually brought this up as a point later that “hey, why not give it to everyone so everyone has a better chance at fighting the BETA?” Yuuko realistically said that this is not really charity and it’s more of a bargaining chip.

I already said above that the Americans were most prepared for a post-BETA world. They have most of the power right now, militarily, economically, and politically. All the TSF and experimental tech came from America. (This is an aside: The HI-MAERF project was deemed a failure because it killed human pilots, the logical step is to make a non-human pilot or piloting system for it and it just so happens that Alt IV was just this so Yuuko decided to capitalize on this opportunity to kill two birds with one stone.) They already created stealth TSFs (which, if you remember, stealth systems didn’t affect the BETA at all, so what for purpose would America be making stealth TSFs if it was useless against the BETA in a war that has no end in sight?) Well, the answer that they give is that the Americans were anticipating the day when the BETA are extinguished, countries would be using TSFs to wage war against one another. They had G-bombs which no other countries had, which, if you remember, is much more destructive than nuclear weapons. I said somewhere in this post that the Americans nuked the living shit out of Canada when that BETA pod dropped to destroy it, while it only took two G-bombs to take out the Yokohama Hive.

Your point is wrong. See above two responses for why. To summarize again, the Americans tried to sabotage Alt IV because they were greedy and wanted to keep themselves strong. They also have multiple contingency plans in place in case everyone else failed. Or if they didn’t fail, well, they got the technology to fight either with G-bombs or anti-TSF TSFs. Hell, in the extended universe past Operation Ouka, the Silent Eagle was the second stealth TSF the Americans made where they tried selling to other countries (‘cause you know, they created a power imbalance with the Raptor and they now they wanted to sell a solution to it). The IJA wanted a new TSF and they had a choice of the stealth Gekkou or the non-stealth Shiranui Second. Both performed admirably in the selection trials. The Shogun decided on the non-stealth Shiranui Second; she explains “While the Earth continues to be plagued by the BETA, only the most helpless fool would consider preparing oneself for war among humans to be of priority.” Japan, better prepared for a post-BETA world? Hah, fat chance. They gave up what little chance they could’ve gotten to the Americans.

I don't remember to have said anything about that. Actually, you were the one to point that out in your previous quote, so, why are you debating your own comments?

This was my fault with the formatting as I wanted to put that point with the previous, but my point is that it seems like you were saying that a story that focuses primarily on a cast of Japanese characters at a UN base in Japan who, in this arc, had to participate in a Japanese civil war, has a lot of Japanese pilots, to which I say:



So, thanks for pointing out the obvious that a majority Japanese cast only has mostly Japanese characters for comparison? I mentioned Mana, Sagiri, and Walken in comparison to Takeru because we saw for good, if rather brief, moment how they fought while the others went down like flies. It wasn’t a curbstomp battle between any of them, but there’s not enough evidence that we can use to make comparison with Takeru. We can only speculate. Outside of this arc we’ve only ever seen a few of the other Yokohama UN pilots in action and they weren’t pushovers. Takeru is really good for a rookie pilot (who’s had how many loops where his training carried over?), but I feel against someone like Mana, he’d most likely go down. It was just an educated case from me based on observing the XM3 trials, where the idea that skill is a bit more important than talent. He’s good, but not that good.

Did you miss the number of times how I kept saying that whatever political maneuvers they did more or less mirror how those countries act in our world? I said our world and real-world so many times in that one paragraph to make a point that Kouki injects bits of how the countries in OUR WORLD operate into how the countries in the BETAverse operate.. It is just as complex. I played Total Eclipse and the CIA and Americans still exert their wide range of influence on the other countries. They nuked the shit out of Canada because the Americans saw how the BETA rekt China and Russia. Then they adopted a combat methodology of engaging the BETA from afar because they thought you can’t hope to win in CQC. It all makes sense because apart from some small differences in Japanese history and WW2 and the whole alien thing, they still resemble the real world US, UK, Japan, Russia, UN.

Yeah, let’s ignore the other big aspects of what makes up an overpowered character and focus on just one so you can prove your point.

First, you’re purposefully narrowing the usual definition of something, without modifying the actual meaning and being coherent with it in your argument to suit your views.

That is called cherry-picking and false equivalence, which are all logical fallacies. (This feels like dejavu…)

Second, you’re just selectively defining shit and overselling her character. She’s a manipulative genius. Her military rank gets her access to resources Takeru wish he had, but you know why? She’s the project head to the most important plan to combat the BETA in history; she has the weight of the entire world on her shoulders. It’s natural that the top-brass at the UN will try their best to make sure she makes Alt IV a success, for the good of everyone because the only other option (or alternative, pun intended) is Alt V and no one wants Alt V because people want to live on the land they take back (again, G-bombs make the land sterile and lifeless, what use is bombing everything to get rid of the BETA when your country has become a literal wasteland?).

Again, one of the most important people in the world is given all the resources she needs to ensure humanity’s survival. NO SHIT. I'd be worried if she didn't have connections.

Would you argue that our world leaders are overpowered as well? They have access to things most regular civilians never get to see in their lifetime. They have so many connections. They make things happen all the time. It’s an asinine argument on your part.

There is a difference between getting everyone to help you versus doing everything yourself. Yuuko is only human in the end, so she gets other people to do things for her. She’s smart, but again, as the most important person spearheading the survival of humanity, you bet your ass that everyone in the project will make sure she gets the stuff she needs to complete Alt IV. She has done extreme and horrible things and given orders that are equally as bad to get closer to that goal and that weighs heavily on her conscience.

You’re making it sound like she does everything singlehandedly, when in fact, she has to enlist help from others because she’s only human. That’s what her Valkyries are for. To say that she is overpowered is, again, overselling the kind of character she is. Even a genius like her has things that’s beyond her scope and in fact most of the heavily lifting was done by the rest of the cast. She needs something done and other people do it for her because she’s a very important person to humanity’s survival. It’s that simple.

wrenchbread said:
Plus, the fucked up Earth from The Day After was not foreseen by anybody. They didn't know that using that many G-bombs at once would cause such strong gravitation anomalies on a global scale. No one could’ve predicted it and so everyone suffered for it. Murphy’s Law.

My point above is more valid and coherent than yours.

(I said that MLA, just like Mahouka, let the Japanese people in a really important position that they would probably never be in our world)

There is just LOTS (and I mean it, LOTS) of other things to be considered, don't start proclaiming baseless nonsense like this here, when one of the main political themes (if not THE main one) in MLA are basically Japanese nacionalism per se, to prove my point right.

Well, this is not logically incorrect in any aspect (and you are doing the same for quite some time too), this is how a debate works, don't you know?

All my points were conclusive and not denigrator about her character. Being overpowered is not something negative in some cases (like when we have a proper explanation of why the character is like that).

Just like any other character mentioned so far by me as overpowered has these same traits (not even Tatsuya or Lelouch do things by themselves, and they have powerful magical powers). Just like her, they have something only they can do, but can't do everything (or even this things they do) without any (previously helped or not) help. And again about this last point, not even Tatsuya.

No shit, my point is about the power she has, and not how strange it would be if she doesn't. Why am I even trying to explain lol

My points above, go read them again

You are a complete hypocrite, accusing other people of doing what you were doing. I don't know if you are just a troll trying to use a "complex" vocabulary (incorrectly used quite a bit) to appear like an intelligent person for the other people reading your quotes or just trying to make a point but being to incoherent with your own words. My bet? Both.

PS: I heard you like to link "reaction" images

wrenchbread said:
At this point it isn’t so much wasting my time trying to disprove someone who, even though he read MLA multiple times, still doesn’t display a good grasp of why things happened the way they did in the VNs, but it’s to let the rest of the internet see how daft you are. Your lack of reading comprehension speaks for itself.

You obviously didn’t read this part closely or at all:


I figured I shouldn’t have to mention this since you played the VN multiple times, but America only tacked on the evacuation ships so the UN could agree to Alt V. The ships weren’t even part of the original plan, it was just bomb all the Hives. Hell, they didn’t even expect the ships to survive the trip to find to a habitable planet. They only put it in to appease the UN and everyone else, the Americans didn’t care, they knew that G-bombs worked and they worked well. Alt V as a whole works out great for America because they were completely untouched by the BETA, so only everyone else gets bombed. Your argument only proves that hindsight is 20/20 when in their universe no one knew detonating a ton of G-bombs would fuck up the entire world like that, so your point honestly holds no water as it’s circular logic.

Just because you say it is doesn’t make it so. All of the world’s governments still remained on Earth so they can give orders to make one last global assault to wipe out the BETA [using G-bombs], while the migrant fleet finds another habitable planet at the same time because their current one is pretty rekt. Alt V was a last-ditch effort to stop the BETA because they’ve been fighting this war for almost 30 years with no progress, and it wasn’t until recently, with G-bombs, that they were able to successfully take down a Hive. Unfortunately, again, no one knew that a shitload of G-bombs would shift oceans and whatever, causing the death of everyone else except the Americans, Japanese, French, and Canadians.

Did you somehow forget or just gloss over in one of my previous posts that explains how Kouki wrote the whole coup arc to highlight that Japanese nationalism is fucking retarded? And I get told I’m “proclaiming baseless nonsense.” You funny, bro.

Fukken lol’d. Quoting for posterity. Assuming I even did cherry-pick my arguments, two wrongs don’t make a right. It doesn’t matter if you were being coherent with it because you’re still cherry-picking things that suits your views in the end while ignoring evidence to the contrary, which is a fallacy.

Are you saying that I’ve been debating the wrong way all my life? You mean all my good marks in class debates were a sham? That my whole life is a lie? Like, I shouldn’t be providing nuanced arguments the uses the whole definitions of words, but rather I should pick and choose the definitions and points I need to confirm my argument while ignoring blatant evidence of the contrary? That I shouldn’t address the opposition’s argument directly, but rather I should be relying on half-truths and confirmation bias (which are fallacies)? Oh, wait, no, I shouldn’t. Phew, Wikipedia saving my ass again. Was about to go crazy there.

Yeah, you do a really good job of showing the rest of the internet that you really know how to debate. And now you know why I consider this a waste of my time when at a fundamental level you don’t even know how a debate goes and actually think fallacies should be part of a debate. Holy. SHIT. This is some Poe’s law up in here.

Then why bring it up at all? You initially started this whole thing by equating Yuuko and Tatsuya, while ignoring that Yuuko is nowhere near Tatsuya’s proficiency in well… everything (except normal magic), when it’s a false equivalence. This is what I mean by cherry-picking, mein freund. You just keep focusing on the fact that Tatsuya’s genius while ignoring his Stu traits and then try to haphazardly equate his character with Yuuko’s. Just… what.

Then what the fuck were you going on about? You’re basically saying she’s way too powerful with pulling strings. I’m saying that someone in her position who’s tasked with creating the one thing that will give humanity a fighting chance that doesn’t involving bombing everything, it is natural that she has such power. You trying to make a point about it is basically saying that her power is out of place, which it isn’t. She has the right amount of power and clout as someone in her unique position.

I did, all I see is dodging, incoherence, back-pedaling from you. My analogy with Yuuko and world leaders is that Yuuko will do everything in her power to make Alt IV a success just as world leaders would do everything in their power to serve in the best interests of their respective countries. Their ranks are different but their jobs are nonetheless analogous.

Dude, I really think you suffer from Dunning-Kruger. And my vocabulary isn’t particularly complex. It really isn’t, even to native speakers who aren’t literature majors. But if you feel you don’t understand certain words or phrases, feel free to ask about them because I certainly don’t want a language barrier or lack of reading comprehension to ruin this as it has on numerous occasions before. I do my job just fine here, the rest is on you. But you keep focusing on the ad-hominems.

You call my responses “desperate defenses,” but I’ve provided detailed rebuttals to every. single. point you tried to make. I don’t have to make you look daft, you do a pretty good job of that for yourself already. You just keep telling yourself that you destroyed my arguments if it makes you sleep at night. I’ll let other people decide. You and that Dunning-Kruger effect, man… I really gotta stop giving strangers on the internet the benefit of the doubt.

I need a drink.

Ships WERE INDEED part of the plan at that point (in order to get the UN to agree with it). And actually, the effects of the powerful destruction caused by the G-Bombs were already witnessed by everyone in the world since it's first use, so there's not things like "They had no idea of how bad they would fuck up".

100,000 people were to be selected and allowed to flee Earth through the use of immigrant spaceships, while the rest of humanity stays on to fight the BETA to the bitter end, using a large number of G Bombs. The immigration ships were not really expected to survive: this was simply something added on to the plan in order to get the UN to agree with it.

And yet, they continued with it. Japanese honor and such is still present until the end of MLA, it was not exclusively made for that arc.

The nationalism is fine since it's explored from multiple angles with Takeru having an outside point of view. At one point he compares Japanese nationalism in the Alternative verse to the sentiments of those people from the Showa era, commenting that in his (our) world such a thing is completely foolish since there's no giant enemy to fight and those feelings are seen as backwards and not progressive, while in the Muv-Luv universe it's still in full force due to the Shogun existing and nationalism being necessary to keep Japan's people hopeful and believing in their country.

There is nothing wrong here, and your incorrect usage of the word "Fallacy" just proves that as one itself. There is no cherry picking from my side, since I always mentioned the other possible alternatives first (and denied the other points presented by you). This is how a debate works. You should learn one day how to.

And you were making an (incorrect) overuse of words like "Fallacy" and its derivatives, just to prove nothing with your argues afterwards

wrenchbread said:
I'm fully convinced that you are talking out of your ass.


>Ships WERE INDEED part of the plan at that point (in order to get the UN to agree with it).

Dude, do you even read what you write? I just said that, but that wasn’t my point. My point was that the Americans never intended for the evacuation ships to be in the original Alt V plan, so it wasn’t just for them to G-bomb everything and leave the earth. If they wanted to leave Earth as well, it would’ve been part of the plan since its first draft, but it was the UN that saw it’s absence as bullshit, so they were the ones who got the Americans to put that one stipulation in. The Americans didn’t care to leave or not leave Earth. If the Americans decided to flee after G-bombing everything, then why did the US gov’t still exist in the TDA timeline? Duh, it’s because a majority of them stayed. They saw no need to evacuate because they were [a little too] confident the G-bombs would take care of everything and because they didn't expect the ships to survive the space trip to another habitable planet.

Here:


In the original incarnation of Alt V, there were no plans for evacuation ships included. The Americans only put that stipulation in because the UN wouldn't agree to Alt V's original plan of ONLY G-bombing everything, so they were like, whatever, you can have your stupid ships.

They experimented with G-bombs on a small scale thrice in the Unlimited timeline. Once in a controlled test in America. Once as a live test for the Yokohama Hive in 1998; it was successful. The third and final time they live test ‘em before going full speed ahead with Alt V was for Sadogashima; that was also successful. They saw that they were quite effective in destroying the BETA and capturing Hives and observed nothing beyond leveling everything and turning the area into a lifeless wasteland. Then someone got the bright idea that they should G-bomb every Hive in the world simultaneously, in which case the gravitational anomalies from all the G-bombs snowballed into shifting entire oceans to one side of the earth. No one guessed that detonating a shitload of bombs made from alien material simultaneously would’ve done that, when the small-scale tests didn’t indicate something like this would happen. That’s the whole point, man. Their logic is that they saw no real issues in the small-scale tests aside from minor gravitational anomalies, therefore they thought using the G-bombs in a large scale simultaneously around Eurasia would work just fine. Can you into science? I can’t believe you don’t understand this logic.

Are you seriously trying to argue this with me? Are you sure you’re not the dense one? I honestly should be asking you if you're the one trolling.

Through and through Kouki made a point that nationalism is fucking retarded when it involves stupid crap like trying to hold the Shogun hostage to get what you want and trying to demonize and banish foreigners. Nationalism by itself without all the connotations is not inherently bad is the point that Kouki wanted to make and he actually examines this topic from multiple angles. To normal folks, it’s simply pride in one’s nation and nationality, but to the Japanese in the BETAverse, it’s almost a way of life. This goes into the whole concept of Japanese national identity due to its humiliation in WW2 and whatnot, but that’s a story for another day. It’s why I laugh when people say that ML/A peddles hardcore right-wing Japanese nationalism when it’s wholly the opposite. Hell, I’d sooner argue that Mahouka peddles hardcore right-wing Japanese nationalism. It’s not so much that he advocates any one view of Japanese nationalism (to be honest he definitely leans more toward the progressive view of Japanese nationalism), but he wants us to think about it in the context of their world and ours. Something you obviously didn’t do.

As someone else put it in with regards how nationalism is handled in ML/A:

What incorrect usage? It’s called a fallacy because your way of providing an argument is wrong. Cherry-picking is a defined as a fallacy of selective evidence.

You say you provide alternate views, but it doesn’t take a genius to see that when examining your arguments that we find you’re only providing narrow interpretations of stuff you read, while also failing to point out other views like mine. There’s also a difference between denying and refuting. Denying makes it sound like you don’t acknowledge my arguments without providing reasons why. Refuting is providing evidence for why you think I’m wrong.

I’ll break it down for you again:

- You make claims that Japan has one of the best TSF pilots ever before even considering its validity. I provided reasons that while he is pretty good, he’s only pretty good for a rookie pilot especially when compared to the veteran UN pilots who were using an old OS and old equipment gave him a pretty hard time during the XM3 trials.

- You make claims that Japan is a Mary Sue nation in ML/A (but fail to consider America as the more likely Sue nation, so much for considering alternatives, huh). I provided canon reasons why it’s not and why America is.

- You make claims that the Americans are scared of the Japanese. I provided canon reasons why they’re not and that they have no reason to be.

- You make claims that Japan is most prepared for a post-BETA world. I provided canon reasons why they’re not and America is.

You make claims Yuuko is overpowered. I provided canon reasons why you’re overselling and misrepresenting her character by providing some real world logic in how humans and their respective institutions operate in the BETAverse (which Kouki employs a lot of, which is why I don’t have many issues with MLA) that she has power that’s normal for a person in her position.

You claim the Americans just wanted to G-bomb everything AND flee the earth. I provided canon reasons explaining that evacuation was never part of the Alt V plan and it was something they added in last minute so the UN can accept G-bombing Eurasia and pointed out that your claim contradicts how after G-bombing everything, the US gov't stayed on earth.

and the pattern just repeats itself. I don’t just say your claims are wrong, I show why they’re wrong using canon literature.

I don’t see how you can deny or argue against canon when it’s right there for everyone to see. You know what they say, “It takes a strong man to deny what’s right in front of them. If the truth is undeniable, you create your own.” You're just fabricating your own narratives to suit your argument. This is worse than a making a fallacious statement, it's misrepresenting shit or making shit up. This is all very strange considering you yourself said that you read MLA thrice, but your arguments here show as if you only have a negligible understanding of the text.

Prove nothing? Then what the hell was I writing the entire time? You obviously seem to know better than I do so please explain it to me, Mr. Dunning-Kruger-effect-personified.

Don't forget, you were the one who dared to compare MLA to Mahouka.

Seriously, dude, if all you’re going to do from now on is call me things like hypocrite in lieu of trying to provide rebuttals, I think you should take a break and do some self-reflection. At least leave with what little pride you have left after this. And do yourself and everyone else a favor and follow this piece of advice before you go because it was absolutely painful watching you dig your own grave these last few days.

nanoflower said:
Other than no one explaining the magic stuff, the incest and how the girls all fawn over Tatsuya, I really enjoy this anime with all its action and OST. I mean, sure its not much or it lackluster but I enjoy it. I have read the novels, but I do agree that only the LN readers get the anime. Either way, I don't understand the magic stuff. The manga helped me understand it better.

Orix said:
I take Yoku Wakaru as Madhouse going "fuck this terminology" and doing a separate short series since they should or risk having a ton of confused viewers.

nina4life said:


Why would not be a horrible idea if they did it.
Imagine a 3-5min long series with those chiibi (is that the term) characters saying "So, what is flying magic", or "What is decomposition magic" and than having small images pop-up above their heads while they explain it.
I, for one, would welcome that.

Miraclezify said:
It's the most boring anime in existence. If you're saying you enjoy the dialogue, you're lying. I don't normally say this because it's due to personal preference, but Mahouka's dialogue is just so bad that you have to be lying to yourself if you say you like it. Unless you're a masochist. You're pretending that it's deep when it's not. You're saying that it explains everything when it shouldn't. Seriously, the dialogue is insulting your intelligence and you're accepting that.

The show is also extremely right-wing to the point that it considers poor people evil because they don't work hard enough. That's fucking disgusting.

"There's no incest in this show". Yup, you guys keep telling yourselves that. You interact with your imouto like that in front of your parents and see what they have to say about it.

The writer also has something against China. Yup China has it's problems, but having every single villain come from China is just ridiculous. And the fact that they're all so goddamn weak. Tatsuya is so strong that it's not even fun watching him wreck the guys. If he put effort into it, it might be, but all the fights are him standing there and people dying.

Also, the animation after episode 1 has been real ass. That's only the tip of the iceberg as well.

darkreaperix said:

No incest since Tatsuya unless he gets all his emotions back,which is highly unlikely,will never have romantic feelings for Miyuki or anyone else.The strong emotions he has left is his Familiar love for Miyuki,as in love for a family member.
.

Flashoftheback said:


It's (possible) incest because Tatsuya's emotion reserved for Miyuki alone.

darkreaperix said:


But as I said it's only familial love,unless he gets it back,but then he might go for either Mayumi,Honoka or Erika :)

Miraclezify said:
The show is also extremely right-wing to the point that it considers poor people evil because they don't work hard enough. That's fucking disgusting.

Miraclezify said:
The writer also has something against China. Yup China has it's problems, but having every single villain come from China is just ridiculous. And the fact that they're all so goddamn weak.

Miraclezify said:
Tatsuya is so strong that it's not even fun watching him wreck the guys. If he put effort into it, it might be, but all the fights are him standing there and people dying.

darkreaperix said:
@ rladls717
the experiment didn't make him strong,it gave him a weak ass MCA that's only C-rank (which is why he is in course 2) and Flash Cast which is limited to magics that has 5 or less processes with the loss of his strong emotions as payment.He was born with his OP magics and brains.And what Miyuki was proud of is that he's brother endured hell to gain his current strength,hell in training as a guardian with the Yotsuba,Ninjutsu with Yokomo and military training with the 101'st.
Believe it or not he wasn't really that strong before aside from decomp,which he also needed to mastere and regrowth wasn't automatic as seen in vol 8,Satou just skipped the getting stronger parts (aside from a few flashback scene and vol 8) and gave us an OP MC at the start.

jakkubus said:

You forgot to mention, that his Flash Cast is supreme in Yotsuba clan. Also loss of emotions can hardly be considered as payment, because it is not handicapping hima at all. That part about training is laughable. In about ten years of training he became ninjutsu master, world's best magic scholar, skilled bodyguard, learned how to flawlessly utilize his new MCA and perfected his innate magic skills.

darkreaperix said:


Well it's better than the 2 days- 2 weeks training to become a strong MC/master a new skill standard in shonen anime,oh he was also born a genius,and that also happens in the real world from time to time :)

Flash Cast is not supreme but confidential because it is considered inhumane in the current magic society.

jakkubus said:



So kid becoming the best in anything he try after ten years of various trainings seem legit in your opinion? Morisaki trained only to became bodygard and even in it he is far inferior than Tatsuya. And can you remind me how long was Shiba learning Far Strike?