My point of view for ending SPOILERS

Puella Magi Madoka Magica: The Movie -Rebellion-

Apr 29, 2014 12:47 AM

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Apr 2012

Hmm. This is awfully murky. Probably best to find popcorn, but not witty or entertaining enough. More fun to engage.

Look, for those who didn't enjoy the movie or thought it didn't make sense/was contradictory/along such lines, I'm sorry it didn't meet your hopes and expectations. Should've contracted with the cat thing. But truly. It's not going to satisfy all.

I thought it was very much in line with the show. Fit well. Was confused when I came to the internet afterward, but c'est la vie.

Urobuchi went to GREAT lengths -- like, really, really far, a quarter-inch short of slapping the viewer in the face with a fish -- to show that his characters didn't know what they were doing. Didn't know what they were getting into. And most of all, that most of their choices aren't healthy in the slightest. Sayaka's wish? Homura's love/devotion/psychotic obsession (yes, it's pretty obviously all three by episode 10)? Kyoko's wish, obviously, and Mami's cocksure nature. Madoka's wish will end with her suicide, as explicitly shown (neat, that's spelled out!) in ep 12 -- which, by the way, renders Homura's wish impossible. Hmm. Maybe that won't sit well with her. I don't know. Since, and somehow people forget this? A wish isn't exactly a logic-rational thing (which I'm pretty sure Kyubey ALSO explicitly spells out)... o_O

The Madoka-verse (erm, the franchise itself, not Madokami's rewrite) has established its rules. Rebellion didn't break them. Maybe you prefer it spelled out. That's fine. Weren't ever really going to get that from Madoka Magica, but nonetheless it's totes fine. Don't let anyone take that from you. (Spelled out explicitly, that is; most developments seemed pretty firmly grounded to me.)

This is pretty cool:

FierceAlchemist said:
keeping me thinking about it months after I saw it in theaters. To me, that's the sign of a great movie.

Why continue to engage with something that brings one no joy...?

Oh, also, y'all, just, quick digression here. One of the Star Wars movies actually did spell out the Force. Because, y'know, before it was stated we had to infer and analyze the implications. Spelling it out was also really effing stupid.

So, if you somehow HAVEN'T learned this yet from watching Madoka...be careful what you wish for.

Oh, right. Rebellion ended the way it did specifically, explicitly (hey there's that word again), word-of-writer to set up further storyline. Which would appear to make it second in a more-than-two-part story, no? Amazing how the judgments come down. I just want to know what comes next or if I have to run off to Fanfiction.net.

Apr 29, 2014 3:33 AM

#52

ssjokg

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Aug 2009

20024

These threads are quite meaningless when it is about their own topic but they sure make it easy to figure out the how some people think.

At one side we have a troll that has said nothing productive in any of these threads without having any sound point on why the movie was bad and is angry all the time, and we also have a Shaft and Kyoani hater that has avoided talking about the show, about specific scenes and pinpoint the flaws he has seen and keeps posting bullshit that have nothing to do with the story.

And at the other side we have the stupid ass motherfuckers that try to reason with them,by bringing up scenes from the tv series and the 3rd movie,characters' actions and statements which in the end are called speculation or "fake" for no real reason.

And all of that not because they aren't satisfied quality-wise but content-wise.Because the pandering wasnt directed at them.

Now if Kaioshin(because the other one isnt willing to even try to have an argument) can talk about those elusive contradictions(like this: Contradiction #1: ,#2:...and so on) in Rebellion(and if possible Haruhi as well) that would actually move the "discussion" a bit.Of course he also has to stop calling blatant facts like Homura being a witch from the start of the movie speculation.
If you call someone that created a Labyrinth that by "canon" is the world/fortress/nest/power of witches and kept that Labyrinth under control(even subconsciously), anything other than a witch then the "contradiction" is in your brain not the story.

ssjokgApr 29, 2014 11:07 PM

Read this if you want to start the Fate/ series but don't know from where.

Apr 29, 2014 8:56 AM

#53

Kitsunahren

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Apr 2012

ssjokg said:
These threads are quite meaningless when it is about their own topic but they sure make it easy to figure out the how some people think.

No discussion goes anywhere unless all sides are willing to listen. This does not really happen on fandom forums. Certainly not on the Internet. Shame, but eh. Maybe not such a shame. Easy to confuse "listen" with "surrender" in this environment.

If a topic were created specifically to discuss some of people's concerns? Might be a neat thing. But that's not here. Unless we should create it? Or too much effort ;D

Apr 29, 2014 9:12 AM

#54

ssjokg

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Aug 2009

20024

Kitsunahren said:

ssjokg said:
These threads are quite meaningless when it is about their own topic but they sure make it easy to figure out the how some people think.

I dont want to put effort into something that turn into a mess because of 1 or 2 people.And asking mods to monitor a thread 24/7 is unreasonable.

There ARE threads where both sides can listen to the other.This just isnt one.

Read this if you want to start the Fate/ series but don't know from where.

Apr 29, 2014 10:50 AM

#55

Botato

Offline

Nov 2013

22765

kamil88 said:
I`ve readed so many topics, thhat say, how much ending betray character of Homura, i respectfully disagree, Homura become magical girl, with just one desire "I want to protect Madoka" after Movie 2 events, Homura thought Madoka was safe, but then, Incubators decided to gain control over Madoka again, by most coward way possible, using someone close to her, to lure her out (It could be everyone) so Homura thought, that, the only way of truly save Madoka. Was to steal her powers, and gain control over everything, even Incubators, i understand, that some people think she is "Crazy, overprotective" but, she goes through a lot of trauma, and even in her God form, Madoka wasn`t safe. It didn`t help, that it was Homura herself, who told Incubatosr about how world used to work. If things were left as it used to be, Incubators surely would try again to enslave Madoka.

Yeah I agree with you, the movie was consistent with what was set in the TV series.
The only thing that bugged me about the ending was that it felt a bit sudden/abrupt. I don't know, maybe it won't feel this way if I re-watch.
Also it sort of implied a possible continuation, but nothing has been announced yet.
Those sales though.. Yeah I have hope that we might get another sequel, which will be Awesome.

May 1, 2014 8:07 AM

#56

strangejuice

Offline

Jun 2013

SolviteSekai said:

You are putting way too many implication's into Homura's actions.
The bottom line is that Madoka willingly chose to become the God she became. In the movie, Homura FORCES HER to live a life she didn't choose.

Agreed

May 1, 2014 9:37 AM

#57

ssjokg

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Aug 2009

20024

vampirepunch said:

Agreed

And Madoka forced Homura to a world where she cant give Madoka a normal life.Madoka WANTS to live a normal life but is TOO good to not take action when others need her.Her own personality doesnt give her a choice not Homura.We saw that in the series and Homura re-stated it in the flower scene.

THE BOTTOM LINE is that both forced the other to a life they couldnt choose before.

Read this if you want to start the Fate/ series but don't know from where.

May 2, 2014 8:28 AM

#58

Kitsunahren

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Apr 2012

ssjokg said:

THE BOTTOM LINE is that both forced the other to a life they couldnt choose before.

Two wishes incompatible with each other. Completely and utterly. If they didn't come into open conflict I'd call foul.

May 2, 2014 9:18 AM

#59

Botato

Offline

Nov 2013

22765

Kitsunahren said:

ssjokg said:

THE BOTTOM LINE is that both forced the other to a life they couldnt choose before.

Two wishes incompatible with each other. Completely and utterly. If they didn't come into open conflict I'd call foul.

If I understand correctly, in Homura's world the Law of the Cycle is still working. So in a certain sense Madoka's wish is still there. However, Madoka's world made Homura's wish impossible.
But yeah, they both forced their world on the other.

May 7, 2014 12:31 PM

#60

Kitsunahren

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Apr 2012

Botato said:

If I understand correctly, in Homura's world the Law of the Cycle is still working. So in a certain sense Madoka's wish is still there. However, Madoka's world made Homura's wish impossible.
But yeah, they both forced their world on the other.

Might be so, yes. Unclear how Cycle works without Madoka herself, interested to see how a second season plays it. Very cool if the Cycle still does work -- what will Madoka do?

@SolviteSekai -- you say "In the movie, Homura FORCES HER to live a life she didn't choose." This is 100% true. It is also what Homura's wish has always been. That's precisely the problem (well, one of several) with Homura's wish. A wish, once made, cannot be taken back. Inflexible, no matter how the situation changes, even if what one must do to accomplish it may change drastically (and does, here). But Madoka is (was) a human being. Mutable, alive, evolving. Even if wish no longer relevant to Madoka's interests, Homura will stick with it.

May 7, 2014 6:44 PM

#61

NickV

Offline

Feb 2012

1953

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet...

Homura never (willingly or knowingly) forced Madoka to a normal life when she became a Demon, it was already destined to be like this ever since Homura made her wish:

Madoka sacrificed her existance by becoming a God to destroy witches before they were being born. Meanwhile, Homura vowed to save and protect Madoka. This is, ofcourse, a contradicting wish but still applies even in the new universe. Kyubey found a way to keep out Madoka's influences and find out what it was that Homura called (she remembered her because of her wish) "Madoka" by using her subconsience. Homura heard from Kyubey what they were trying to do- -control Madoka- -so Homura made the choice to make Madoka forget about who she was to protect her. Realise that since the Kyubey race had captured Madoka before, they would definitely try again. This way, she could protect Madoka from harm.

This is what the writer had tried to create, and succeeded. The bad in the good; the selfishness in selflesness. Madoka's wish left a gap in Homura's heart (because of Homura's wish) and Homura's wish made her selfish, even though it was just to protect a dear friend and keep her from dying. I really don't understand how anyone could call this bad writing when the story has so many layers.
Read more at http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1158341&show=60#YqcXV8z7b8DzsDh4.99

May 28, 2014 3:21 PM

#62

kamil88

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Jun 2012

844

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVmvMSuxavo 2:19 Incubators are now in charge of collecting curses, maybe Homura could strip Madoka of her powers, because technically, her wish still wasn`t granted, with was "I want to protect Madoka, instead of her protecting me" She goes back in time so many times, maybe that wish affected her powers as much as it did Madoka?

kamil88May 28, 2014 3:24 PM

Jul 29, 2014 3:19 PM

#63

TokyoCrazyPXD

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Oct 2013

381

FierceAlchemist said:
^^^
This and the flower scene are what justify Homura's actions for me. Not only is Homura worried about the incubators, but she's also told by Madoka that it would be painful to go so far away that she could never see Homura again. This is a Madoka without her memories but it casts doubt on whether Madoka is the Law of Cycles out of duty or happiness.

I completely agree. I think that by "betraying" Madoka and pulling her from heaven, Homura has, for now, achieved her initial objection. In the series Madoka asks Homura to keep her from becoming a magical girl. Although she has failed every time so far, this time she has technically succeeded. There appears to be no magical girls in this world and Madoka appears to be a normal girl. Granted this is not what the current Madoka wanted, and you can clearly see that once Homura interfered in Madoka's life she became less and less happy and confident (throughout the timelines).... giving us the title of the movie "Rebellion". She has now dethroned Madoka to allow for her safety and to keep the Incubators from gaining control of her.
It seems completely in line with Homura's character to turn evil and make Madoka her enemy if it means she is with Madoka and Madoka is a normal girl again.

Is it a happy ending? HELL NO. Evil Homura is now in control of the universe and in that post credit scene, appears to be on a power trip or just simply insane. The girls have been forced into this new reality, along with Kyubey who has now taken over the role the magical girls played. I don't see this lasting long as Madoka or the Incubators or both are bound to find a way to shatter this new universe.

I don't agree with her actions I just understand them. If I were Homura, I would have just went to heaven :p girl you've done enough smh

TokyoCrazyPXDJul 29, 2014 3:38 PM

Aug 7, 2014 12:41 PM

#64

N-PZm

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Aug 2014

3944

^^^
This is pretty much exactly how I feel about this ending, word for word. If you were to actually sit down and think about Homura's motives like this, the ending of this film is perfect. Unhappy as all hell, but exactly how this should have ended. Nothing is forced or edgy for the sake of being edgy.

Now that said, it's not a very finalized ending. There's nothing wrong with open-ended, up to interpretation endings, but after seeing such a nicely well rounded ending of the original series, tacking onto that with this sort of taints that magic. I'm fairly confident there will be more, especially since in an older interview with Gen Urobuchi, he said that he planned for the film series to consist of 4 movies. But until we know for sure, my consideration for this being a real part of the Madoka Magica story is up in the air.

If we do get more though, then god DAMN this was an amazing entry into the series from start to finish.

Oct 22, 2014 6:08 AM

#65

superseiyan

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Mar 2012

300

SolviteSekai said:
Even when justified, the ending was still stupid.

It was edgy for the sake of being edgy, like everything else urobuchi has ever created.

The bottom line is that Madoka willingly chose to become the God she became. In the movie, Homura FORCES HER to live a life she didn't choose.

Homura's thoughts about what Madoka wants are disgruntled and childish.

You can't call an ending where the MC becomes satan and enslaves all her friends into fantasy land by force a "happy ending".

Edit: I'd call what happened to QB a happy ending at least, though even that was edgy, as it was a form of sadistic punishment.

Actually the ending made sense for me, and I prefer it to a let's-hold-hands-and-drink-tea-at-Mami's-forever ending. That wouldn't have been as powerful.

What I found took away from the ending was Kyubey being portrayed as overtly villain-ish. He's scarier and better as a truly impartial cold logical being.

Misc thoughts on anime: http://stomondo.blogspot.com/search/label/Anime

Oct 22, 2014 6:15 AM

#66

superseiyan

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Mar 2012

300

FakePriest said:
But it isnt a slice of life show so it isnt out of place, like I have being saying in the other thread.What happens in SnU,just likeMadoka, doesnt contradict the entire plot,genre,theme,atmosphere.Can you try to understand english?

-Homura was FORCED to let Madoka become a"god".Every Magical girl,friend and family were FORCED to forget her and everything that happened till then.They werent given a choice.Madoka created a "fake rule " to stop them from becoming witches.Madoka FORCED herself to become a godlike being in order to save others.How is Madoka any different from Homura?
-Homura FORCED Madoka to become human again..She FORCED every Magical girl to become normal again instead of giving them a future filled with deadly fights.She FORCED those EX-Magical girl,friend and family to remember/get to know Madoka.She created "fake rules" to stop curses from harming them by making QB absorb them.Homura FORCED herself to become a godlike being in order to save Madoka.How is Homura any different from Madoka?
Oh wait,for now,Homura did a better job at playing "god".

Instead of ad hominem, and random bullshit how about to try and see the fucking show?

First of all, I'm one of those that liked the ending.

Now as far as the difference between Homura and Madoka:

- Madoka did what she did for everyone, because it's just the sort of gentle caring person she is, she loves everyone. She's a normal, kind hearted kid. Saving everyone was the intent. Did what she thought was best for everyone.
- Homura did what she did because she went Yandere. It was with her happiness in mind--or even if it was her & Madoka's happiness, it was about an obsession of hers. Did what she thought was best for herself.

Similar outcomes--but with different motives. Whether that's irrelevant is an interesting debate.

superseiyanOct 22, 2014 6:30 AM

Misc thoughts on anime: http://stomondo.blogspot.com/search/label/Anime

Oct 22, 2014 10:04 AM

#67

ssjokg

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Aug 2009

20024

superseiyan said:

-Homura dosnt care what happens to her as long as she saves Madoka, from what she thinks is a bad destiny.t was shown before AND after she "sealed" Madoka.

Read this if you want to start the Fate/ series but don't know from where.

Nov 7, 2014 9:44 PM

#68

Flick_Flunk

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Oct 2014

hmmm... several people are claiming that Homura is so stupid, unrealistic, crazy.. but I think out of it all.. she was the most logical... I didn't understand it at first but now.. I think it's starting to make sense... the wish that madoka made about saving witches and all that isn't her true real wish.. the talk in the garden was what madoka truly wanted ... which was not to disappear and spend their lives normally together with all of them... that's why homura answered back that she shouldn't have allowed it to happen....it is similar to batman... she was willing to be the evil one... so that's when she's gone... everybody will have absolute peace... like lelouch thing... that's why she became the devil... she wanted to pull away that madoka's universe... and control over the incubator and the universe as a whole.. Madoka's universe failed to take account incubator which is why it is a rebellion..getting Madoka's power and being the one to rule the whole universe and protect madoka's life overall... I think the ending credits mean that she finally was able to beat kyubey... but in the end she was drowned in despair because one day madoka and her will be enemies...forcing their ideals with one another like the selflessness of madoka vs selfishness of homura to bring back madoka... it shows duality and niihilism.. anyway that's my interpretation but really... I feel like it's not really the end but there will be an upcoming movie or something... hahaha :))

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My point of view for ending SPOILERS

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