| I watched this movie critic on YouTube and she said Hollywood should get involved with anime. Incoming more live action Hollywood adaptations. |
| HACKs! 🤢🤮 |
Reply to ktg
That's only true in certain parts of the world. My local small cinema still won't screen it. I have to travel to a bigger city to watch it.
Anime is the most liberal medium. When in the US they considered homosexuality a mental illness. In anime you were already able to meet sexual minorities.
That's why it was so successful, they didn't control their liberal ideas.
Not really, if anything, Hollywood started following anime in the representation.
You can't argue with people who ignore facts. Netflix has a yearly inclusion report and people can see how only 15% of the leads is black and that's the same ratio in the US population.
So they are more closer to the reality right now, but obviously if someone is racist, then he won't like it.
So you don't like Mushishi. Could you remove it from your favs? Because it's a seinen which indicates that it's for young adults.
That's true for almost every movie. It was true for Kpop Demon Hunters, where they made the argument how it's a Christian movie, because they fought demons and they also made the argument against it, because the demons were idolized.
But the original statement was about superiority and not profitability. Yes, Transformers was also more profitable than Wolf Children. Is there any aspect where Transformers actually is better than Wolf Children? No, obviously not.
US is still in a unique position where they heavily export and dominate western culture, but it's not about quality, at least not anymore. The reason why anime is able to compete with Hollywood to some extent or at least it's comparable now is because quality-wise it has higher standards. Otherwise it wouldn't have happened, because an average Hollywood movie's budget is like 60 million, while an average anime budget is like 6?!
Yes, in most aspects Hollywood is still the number 1, but in the last couple years it became obvious that there are challengers to its position.
Whiteingale said:
and when you think of anime its very unlikely to be liberal
and when you think of anime its very unlikely to be liberal
Anime is the most liberal medium. When in the US they considered homosexuality a mental illness. In anime you were already able to meet sexual minorities.
That's why it was so successful, they didn't control their liberal ideas.
rohan121 said:
Most big movies in the west nowadays are dei gov funded propaganda pieces so I expect the anime scene to continue to grow especially with media actually allowed to cater to men.
Most big movies in the west nowadays are dei gov funded propaganda pieces so I expect the anime scene to continue to grow especially with media actually allowed to cater to men.
Not really, if anything, Hollywood started following anime in the representation.
LuxuriousHeart said:
Y'all say this all the time, but it isn't true.
Y'all say this all the time, but it isn't true.
You can't argue with people who ignore facts. Netflix has a yearly inclusion report and people can see how only 15% of the leads is black and that's the same ratio in the US population.
So they are more closer to the reality right now, but obviously if someone is racist, then he won't like it.
SuperAdventure said:
I don't look at any movies or anime as being "for white guys" or "for black guys" or "for trans" as if subdividing all of humanity into different groups, and only seeing people as white, black, male, wommxn etc.
I don't look at any movies or anime as being "for white guys" or "for black guys" or "for trans" as if subdividing all of humanity into different groups, and only seeing people as white, black, male, wommxn etc.
So you don't like Mushishi. Could you remove it from your favs? Because it's a seinen which indicates that it's for young adults.
JaniSIr said:
Barbie is a weird movie, because I heard arguments for it being woke and not, both from conservatives.
Barbie is a weird movie, because I heard arguments for it being woke and not, both from conservatives.
That's true for almost every movie. It was true for Kpop Demon Hunters, where they made the argument how it's a Christian movie, because they fought demons and they also made the argument against it, because the demons were idolized.
BilboBaggins365 said:
I am not talking about the popularity of Disney films in the USA. I am talking about the popularity of Disney everywhere.
I am not talking about the popularity of Disney films in the USA. I am talking about the popularity of Disney everywhere.
But the original statement was about superiority and not profitability. Yes, Transformers was also more profitable than Wolf Children. Is there any aspect where Transformers actually is better than Wolf Children? No, obviously not.
US is still in a unique position where they heavily export and dominate western culture, but it's not about quality, at least not anymore. The reason why anime is able to compete with Hollywood to some extent or at least it's comparable now is because quality-wise it has higher standards. Otherwise it wouldn't have happened, because an average Hollywood movie's budget is like 60 million, while an average anime budget is like 6?!
Yes, in most aspects Hollywood is still the number 1, but in the last couple years it became obvious that there are challengers to its position.
ktg said: So you don't like Mushishi. Could you remove it from your favs? Because it's a seinen which indicates that it's for young adults. That's horse shit "It's seinen" is a meaningless category put on the MAL database. When the Mushishi opening song starts, does it say "This is "Seinen"" No it doesn't. It's an anime. It's made for anyone. I am a young adult anyway so duh. |
Reply to BilboBaggins365
@JaniSIr I mean....you don't......It's just coping.
See Jani, this is coping. Anime as a medium, wish it could be as global as Disney, and anime unlike most other non Western entertainment is actually pretty mainstream globally.
Mod Edit: Removed baiting.
LOLOz said:
Yes, everyone notices the superiority of anime over Western films and series..
Which is why they still make some of the best selling films/shows out there, outside of insular success in China and India. Demon Slayer still isn't going to ever come near films like Frozen.Yes, everyone notices the superiority of anime over Western films and series..
See Jani, this is coping. Anime as a medium, wish it could be as global as Disney, and anime unlike most other non Western entertainment is actually pretty mainstream globally.
LOLOz said:
They only produce their own politics and ideas. They do not care what the viewer wants. We've been through a lot of life stress in recent years, and we want to watch what we enjoy watching, not messages and suggestions with a veiled and complicated story.
So like everyone. Lol, you really think other nation's media aren't heavily political? Anime is actually quite political, it just might line up with what you consider right, or ideal. Granted considering how this medium has supported LGBT rep, I guess not.They only produce their own politics and ideas. They do not care what the viewer wants. We've been through a lot of life stress in recent years, and we want to watch what we enjoy watching, not messages and suggestions with a veiled and complicated story.
Mod Edit: Removed baiting.
BilboBaggins365 said: It's hilarious you accuse the West of racism while upholding Arab Nations, Turkey and South Korea, as ideals. I wish we were more xenophobic, most of the global south doesn't deserve any respect. I am not going to respect cultures that would drag me through the streets and kill me, or legally oppress me. Sadly the morons, over here don't see the real threats to our way of life. The ME can go to hell frankly, including yourself. Whine about racism, then support another form of bigotry, pretty typical of your kind. I was expressing my opinion freely, but your words were extremely rude and disrespectful to others ..It's so funny to accuse this country of backwardness and crime, while it lives a comfortable life and a thriving economy. But you only see the world as the Western media portrays it. And the countries that are subjected to such crimes were colonized, and their wealth was plundered by some countries that claim to be civilized and wealthy, and we all know that. It is humane to pray for these countries that suffer from crime, poverty, and disease instead of wishing them to go to hell. But your ugly words are inhumane and disrespectful. You and everyone who thinks like you are destined for hell. This is utter impudence. |
| " At least we stare at the same sky"  |
| The potential is there for anime to dominate... but the political environment matters a lot too. Specifically in the US, with the raise of Christian Nationalist into power trough Trump, there is potential for that advance to be crushed. Those peoples hate everything that is foreign and doesn't fit their values, so I am really expecting them to go hard into censoring and banning anime altogether in the future. And 'monkey sees, monkey does' lot's of populist and nationalist in the West, are into imitating MAGA, so that could expand. So generally, I am a cautious optimist. |
 |
Reply to ktg
That's only true in certain parts of the world. My local small cinema still won't screen it. I have to travel to a bigger city to watch it.
Anime is the most liberal medium. When in the US they considered homosexuality a mental illness. In anime you were already able to meet sexual minorities.
That's why it was so successful, they didn't control their liberal ideas.
Not really, if anything, Hollywood started following anime in the representation.
You can't argue with people who ignore facts. Netflix has a yearly inclusion report and people can see how only 15% of the leads is black and that's the same ratio in the US population.
So they are more closer to the reality right now, but obviously if someone is racist, then he won't like it.
So you don't like Mushishi. Could you remove it from your favs? Because it's a seinen which indicates that it's for young adults.
That's true for almost every movie. It was true for Kpop Demon Hunters, where they made the argument how it's a Christian movie, because they fought demons and they also made the argument against it, because the demons were idolized.
But the original statement was about superiority and not profitability. Yes, Transformers was also more profitable than Wolf Children. Is there any aspect where Transformers actually is better than Wolf Children? No, obviously not.
US is still in a unique position where they heavily export and dominate western culture, but it's not about quality, at least not anymore. The reason why anime is able to compete with Hollywood to some extent or at least it's comparable now is because quality-wise it has higher standards. Otherwise it wouldn't have happened, because an average Hollywood movie's budget is like 60 million, while an average anime budget is like 6?!
Yes, in most aspects Hollywood is still the number 1, but in the last couple years it became obvious that there are challengers to its position.
Whiteingale said:
and when you think of anime its very unlikely to be liberal
and when you think of anime its very unlikely to be liberal
Anime is the most liberal medium. When in the US they considered homosexuality a mental illness. In anime you were already able to meet sexual minorities.
That's why it was so successful, they didn't control their liberal ideas.
rohan121 said:
Most big movies in the west nowadays are dei gov funded propaganda pieces so I expect the anime scene to continue to grow especially with media actually allowed to cater to men.
Most big movies in the west nowadays are dei gov funded propaganda pieces so I expect the anime scene to continue to grow especially with media actually allowed to cater to men.
Not really, if anything, Hollywood started following anime in the representation.
LuxuriousHeart said:
Y'all say this all the time, but it isn't true.
Y'all say this all the time, but it isn't true.
You can't argue with people who ignore facts. Netflix has a yearly inclusion report and people can see how only 15% of the leads is black and that's the same ratio in the US population.
So they are more closer to the reality right now, but obviously if someone is racist, then he won't like it.
SuperAdventure said:
I don't look at any movies or anime as being "for white guys" or "for black guys" or "for trans" as if subdividing all of humanity into different groups, and only seeing people as white, black, male, wommxn etc.
I don't look at any movies or anime as being "for white guys" or "for black guys" or "for trans" as if subdividing all of humanity into different groups, and only seeing people as white, black, male, wommxn etc.
So you don't like Mushishi. Could you remove it from your favs? Because it's a seinen which indicates that it's for young adults.
JaniSIr said:
Barbie is a weird movie, because I heard arguments for it being woke and not, both from conservatives.
Barbie is a weird movie, because I heard arguments for it being woke and not, both from conservatives.
That's true for almost every movie. It was true for Kpop Demon Hunters, where they made the argument how it's a Christian movie, because they fought demons and they also made the argument against it, because the demons were idolized.
BilboBaggins365 said:
I am not talking about the popularity of Disney films in the USA. I am talking about the popularity of Disney everywhere.
I am not talking about the popularity of Disney films in the USA. I am talking about the popularity of Disney everywhere.
But the original statement was about superiority and not profitability. Yes, Transformers was also more profitable than Wolf Children. Is there any aspect where Transformers actually is better than Wolf Children? No, obviously not.
US is still in a unique position where they heavily export and dominate western culture, but it's not about quality, at least not anymore. The reason why anime is able to compete with Hollywood to some extent or at least it's comparable now is because quality-wise it has higher standards. Otherwise it wouldn't have happened, because an average Hollywood movie's budget is like 60 million, while an average anime budget is like 6?!
Yes, in most aspects Hollywood is still the number 1, but in the last couple years it became obvious that there are challengers to its position.
ktg said: Not really, if anything, Hollywood started following anime in the representation. Tbh, I will say that Hollywood is better than anime when it comes to racial diversity. For a while, we've had series with characters of all colors. Anime was, and still is, mostly focused on East Asians and white people. ktg said: You can't argue with people who ignore facts. Netflix has a yearly inclusion report and people can see how only 15% of the leads is black and that's the same ratio in the US population. So they are more closer to the reality right now, but obviously if someone is racist, then he won't like it. Yep! Movies still cater to the majority of Americans, which are straight white people. Though people ignore movies that come out. |
ktg said: Why? Should I talk about every anime show or film that doesn't do well? We are talking about what kinds of works have the potential to be massive hits, and influence our culture easily. Disney of late, has been having issues, however, Illumination did really well on the Super Mario Brothers film (1.4 billion dollars), and they are making a sequel to that. Then you should also include the flops of Disney. ktg said: Yeah Disney doesn't run off merch.....are you serious? You could argue anime depends on it more, since it's more of an industry that runs on the margin however, Disney makes $60 billion dollars, off their licensed products, in one year. That is like 3x more what the entire anime industry makes in total revenue. Even if you throw in the entirety of all manga, which is an estimated 42 billion, then those industries combined would make exactly what Disney makes on merch alone. Every new IP they get, or create helps support that merchandising giant, that they are. It's why their handling of Star Wars was quite weird. But it would still be a wrong argument, because their operating model is different. The anime is an advertisement for the manga and its merch, while Disney doesn't really do that. So you should compare it with other sales of that industry. ktg said: Uh....how can you prove that lol? Lots of people hate anime, and are big Disney heads....I personally prefer anime, however, I can't prove that cause it's art. I can explain why I like it more; however, there is nothing to prove, especially in art forms that both have a lot of effort put into them. People don't prefer it...like where is your assertion for this statement? Disney makes more money, therefore more people are picking Disney, so unless you are claiming people just spend money on worse entertainment, that they don't like as much, this statement is false. Of course also less people know about anime; however, again people are still picking Disney as their entertainment choice, therefore what the person claimed is wrong, and also this thread title is wrong, cause it's literally just about popularity. Yes, because the writing is different. So you proved my point. Quality-wise anime is superior, because despite its weaknesses that originate from the lack of budget, people still prefer it. ktg said: More like anime fans don't value the medium that much. Still you only subscribe to Disney + because you want to just watch Disney films, SW or Marvel stuff. It doesn't have a lot of variety on there, whereas with an anime piracy site, you have the entire library of decades of the medium, for free....which is kinda the point. If people don't have to pay, of course many are going pick that over a paid site...I wouldn't deny that anime piracy sites are quite popular. This isn't a debate to prove that anime is popular though. Don't you think it's kinda unfair to compare Disney just to the entirety of anime?...I thought this was about all Hollywood? hen again, I would still say it's a bad argument, because to watch Disney, people mainly go to the cinema, while to watch anime, people go to Netflix or CR. Even if you make the argument that Disney+ exists, we would still see that anime is much more popular in that aspect: "Believe It or Not, One of Anime's Top Piracy Platforms Now Brings In More Visitors Than Disney+" https://screenrant.com/anime-piracy-disney-plus-hianime-controversy-factoid/ ktg said: Are you using awards shows as an indicator of quality? Okay then A Silent Voice is a worse film than Boss Baby good to know. You can't prove quality lol. You objectively can't, because art is art, it's entirely subjective. We aren't talking about quality, outside of your desperate attempt to move the conversation to that topic. The topic, is "Anime dominating Western cinema", it's entirely a popularity argument, and frankly a stupid thread, the comment I respond to was making a popularity argument. IDC about Frozen, however, to say an anime is better than Frozen is a subjective argument and therefore "not provable". You can make arguments on why you like x better however, those are just opinions, unlike popularity which is objective by looking at the numbers.They will stand out quality-wise and not popularity-wise. At least if you are looking at the box offices. This year Anora won Best Picture. The production budget was 6 million and the box office was 57 million. That's not even close to Frozen, but Frozen didn't win Best Picture. This would mean that Anora is better quality-wise, but Frozen is more popular. My point is trying to say, hey we don't have a big budget, therefore we can't make a big hit, is an excuse. Lots of films have made big hits on limited budgets. The Godfather was made on a 6 million dollar budget, and made 250 million at the box office. ktg said: ....I never denied that. Of course the USA, due to a variety of reasons, was able to monopolize it's soft culture base. I am not saying it's a fair game. That said, you aren't talking about some impoverished industry that is unable to market itself, or is unknown. Anime is one of the most popular forms of foreign media, in the Western world. Trying to pull the well, the budget, the budget, especially if the industry got more money, they would not be using it to increase individual production budgets. I mean we have seen that live lol. The industry has blown up in profits, and they have saw fit to use that money, to simply throw out more glut. Those decisions are on the anime industry. That's simply not true. Cultural power is influence and if you have bigger base, then you have bigger cultural power. With money you can influence one person, with a movie or series you can influence everyone. ktg said: I proved that Disney's merch alone kills the entire anime industry. You don't understand how big of a giant those guys are. Every little girl, probably on planet earth (hyperbole before you jump down my throat) has bought something of theirs. And you would still need to prove that anime with manga sales and every merch is smaller than Hollywood. ktg said: One, you brought up Netflix's data as a point of proof, and now you are calling it into question? Secondly your example, that disproves Netflix's data as legitimate is literally a horrible case lol. One Netflix has claimed that a total of 330 million people watched Squid Game S1, so I don't know where you are getting your numbers.That's why that's a bad argument. Netflix claimed that half of its subscriber base watches anime and yet Naruto had only 45 million views. That's why we cannot use that data. And let's not forget that their database is heavily flawed. 42 million watched Squid Game S1, while 117 million watched S2. Does that mean that people watched S2 without watching S1? https://www.imdb.com/news/ni64988543/ Secondly, if it's just looking at one specific year, when S2 came out, then yes, S1 having less views that year makes sense, because people watch sequels more, than the original, when the sequel has come out. There is nothing to disprove in the numbers I brought up, so in reality more people are watching shows like Bridgeton and Stranger Things more than anime, and in my social circles, and acquittances I have made, that tracks. Anime is more popular, you can talk about a few shows more casually however, compared to big shows like Stranger Things, that a lot of people watch it's still nicher. Frankly I guarantee various reality TV shows on Netflix, like Love is Blind make more than anime. ktg said: Huh? No, it's because seasonal anime is supported on the backs of a dedicated however, smaller group of fans, with a few really big titles getting into the popular acclaim, which hey...that is how every media industry works however, the big hits are bigger for Hollywood, and even the smaller hits, are bigger than a lot of notable titles in this medium. t's actually the opposite. At least if we accept that your claim is true. That would mean that they more likely start a new anime than watch a sequel, which implies that they would more likely buy new merch. |
BilboBaggins365Sep 16, 11:25 AM
Reply to ktg
@SuperAdventure No, it was "put on" the same way as they "put on" categories like "for white guys" that you claimed to hate.
If you wouldn't care about it that it was made for a specific group, then you wouldn't care about it in any case. So you lied at least once.
I also don't care about if you fall into that specific category, because you would also fall into that in case of some western shows, but you still claimed to hate it even if it's your group.
Anime is also subdividing humanity into specific groups, everything and everyone does this, because otherwise people wouldn't watch it. People choose to watch shows, movies based on the knowledge they have. Does this aimed at me? Does this the genre that I like? Does this directed by my favorite director?
If you wouldn't care about it that it was made for a specific group, then you wouldn't care about it in any case. So you lied at least once.
I also don't care about if you fall into that specific category, because you would also fall into that in case of some western shows, but you still claimed to hate it even if it's your group.
Anime is also subdividing humanity into specific groups, everything and everyone does this, because otherwise people wouldn't watch it. People choose to watch shows, movies based on the knowledge they have. Does this aimed at me? Does this the genre that I like? Does this directed by my favorite director?
| @ktg Where is the category on MAL "for white guys" ... the rest of what you wrote makes no sense |
| In my country, we are far from what you described, but it has become noticeable that more anime movies are being shown in cinemas. I went to watch the Demon Slayer movie, and they also showcased the Chainsaw Man trailer. Probably the first time it happened here. |
| Awesome, anime movies are getting the love and recognition. Yeah, I think anime movies are going to keep on carving. |
| I feel like y'all are overestimating this supposed anime domination in theaters. Aside from Demon Slayer, no other anime franchise is pulling in these big numbers, and Demon Slayer as a whole is an anomaly. Folks are really over-hyping this like it'll lead to some massive anime movie renaissance in the West even though it's obvious that non-Demon Slayer anime movies wouldn't be nearly this successful. Also I feel like some of y'all are way too young to remember, but the first Pokemon movie was also pretty big 25 years ago, so this isn't the first time that an anime movie has been a smash hit in theaters in the West. |
BilboBaggins365 said: Empathy is a two way street, and those that wish for my death, or call something immutable disgusting leads me to not give a fuck. You can not act this way, then I would respond in kind, with kindness, however, fail to do so, well don't be shocked when people don't care about you. Again you have to actually start being respectful, my comments were in response to an insult, that you made, not me. Hahaha you're so rude.. Who started this, huh? You're the one who wished me to go to hell in your first reply and then you say I'm the one who started insulting you!! You insult me and all cultures and peoples and say that I'm the one who sees you as less than human! Why do you talk about Arabs and Muslims in every reply? What does this have to do with the topic? I was talking about the Eastern media, especially anime and Korean drama, that they are outperformed the Western media, but you started to touch on other topics that are not related to the topic. I think all you care about is speaking in a vulgar and disrespectful way. I read your comment before editing it, and I saw how many insults you deleted. In the end, you don't want to discuss things with me in a civilized manner; You want to vent your hatred and anger on me. I don't see you addressing any of the other members in such an ugly manner, but it seems like you hate only me. I will report these vulgar and bad responses, and I will express my opinion however I want. Anime and Korean dramas have outperformed Western dramas, whether you like it or not, that's the truth. Mod Edit: Removed baiting. |
-DxP-Sep 16, 12:35 PM
| " At least we stare at the same sky" |
Thread locked & cleaned. This is no longer about the thread topic at hand. I see no reason to leave it open. |
 |
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