Re:ZERO -Starting Life in Another World- (light novel)
Rehls said: I made it clear already, I think - that if they're not prepubescent in mind (because fiction), then they're not 'true' lolis - they're teenage/adult females in young girl's body. Many might consider Tatsumaki from OPM a loli - but technically, she isn't. Hmm, I understand your point, but imo there is a clear difference between real world and anime in this case - in real life if some women is just very short, to the point you can call her a dwarf, you right away see that she is not just a kid, but someone with genetic mutations or something like that. In anime world short adults usually look just like kids, to the point that without knowing her background you won't know whether she is adult or a kid. So by your logic unless you know short anime character's age for sure, for example seeing her on a picture, she is both loli and not loli at the same time? Schrodinger's loli :D Well, to each their own of course, it's not like we have a dictionary definition for that trait. To me Beatrice is 100% loli despite her age and knowledge :3  |
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| She has too much plot to be considered a loli |
 "The sun is my enemy, but the moon has been good to me." |
| OMG you people... Are you seriously having that argument right now? Kitsu-nee said: Well, to each their own of course, it's not like we have a dictionary definition for that trait. To me Beatrice is 100% loli despite her age and knowledge :3 DRILL-LOLI |
"Vaut mieux se suffire à soi que finir assoiffé dans le monde des apparences."  |
Rehls said: >implying that a fried potato isn't a potato.Spooky_E said: >implying that Shinobu isn't a loli. >implying that Lambdadelta isn't a loli >implying that Bernkastel isn't a loli >implying that Illyasviel isn't a loli >implying that *insert every legal loli characters* aren't loli I made it clear already, I think - that if they're not prepubescent in mind (because fiction), then they're not 'true' lolis - they're teenage/adult females in young girl's body. Many might consider Tatsumaki from OPM a loli - but technically, she isn't. And the point is whether they are loli or not. And they are. True loli, teen loli, legal loli is different talk. Loli only refer to a prepubsecent body the rest doesn't matter. There's reason why there's word true loli, teen loli, legal loli, oppai loli etc to be used. |
CactiiSep 5, 2016 6:04 PM
| @Rehls You only arguing on semantic here. A fried potato is still a potato no matter how you name it. |
| and the point is whether it is a potato or not. |
| learn m0re about loli guys, heaven cannot exist without loli, how can in this very beautiful earth some of you are so ignorant loli is my sign and many of her faction for example .. desu |
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Tenkin said: O-oppai loli?Loli's don't have tits that big, unless you think Hestia and Popura are also a loli. The term exist for reason. |
| The translated definition straight from pixiv: ""Loli" refers mainly to a (little) girl in her early teens or younger, or a person with the physical characteristics of a little girl." The word originated from the novel "Lolita" and the main character was fixated on nymphets which were between the ages of 9 and 14. (Attraction towards nymphets) This was the original meaning but later on it started to get another meaning which would be the attraction towards a person with the physical characteristics of a little girl. Do note: Shinobu (Monogatari), Rory (Gate), etc. are considered loli's because of this. Hint: PHYSICAL CHARACTERISTICS Even the pornography industry can support the latter meaning: "In the marketing of pornography, "lolita" is used to refer to a young girl, frequently one who has only recently reached the age of consent, appears to be younger than the age of consent, or child exploitation material depicting the sexual abuse of children." With all these evidence, I can claim, Rem and Ram are NOT loli's, however, Felt and Beatrice ARE loli's. |
| No, she's just an Japanese styled anime character, which means she's tiny. |
| Be thankful for the wisdom granted to you. |
Rehls said: @Rukoudiora Uh, feels like repeating, but: we've covered in this topic Felt and Beatrice not being true lolis, but variations; as in, there are many kinds. Felt is a mid-teen. Beatrice is... woah. Well, none of them is a preteen; an immature mind is an important characteristic they lack. Just compare the village girl Subaru interacted with in the latest episode with Felt and Beatrice, and you'll see. Felt is much more mature. And Beatrice is shown to be much more than Felt, in the latest interactions she had with Subaru. Shinobu from what I remember, is quite immature, but knowledgeable (for having lived for hundreds of years), in her young form. She also appears to be sexually awoken. Same for Mayoi. So they should be true lolis, yeah... Now Rory from that show? She's an adult, isn't she? Or you're telling me that people can't differentiate? Or even worse: that they believe that some anime aren't capable of characterizing characters of different mental ages? (Possible.) I haven't finished that show, but this Rory appeared to be behaving like an adult, in the few scenes I saw of her. So yeah: mental age matters as much as body age in stories. But to be considered a loli, the character also has to be sexually awoken. Otherwise, for example, people would be calling the village girls and the merchant's daughter lolis, too... Why don't they? Because those characters don't give the impression lolis do; they lack the attitude. ... In that novel you referred to, the protagonist molests the young girl - and as result, awakens her sexually, uh. So she can then fit his interests. Dude... pornography? Porn stars aren't there to talk... They're not good at acting, either, uh... Uh. There only the body should matter, yeah... Eh. But a preteen working there would be a loli, probably, uh. Felt is a true loli, there is no way you can change that. She is clearly not fed with nutrition and she's in her teens. That's basically a very valid definition of a loli. Beatrice on the other hand, you can argue, because she's an adult, but that goes for Shinobu too for instance. The thing I mentioned earlier, the important key factor is sexual attraction, not mental attraction. Physical appearance is key here. Is Beatrice sexually attractive? Subjective, to Subaru she obviously is (Drill-loli), fact of the matter is, she can be considered a loli, so she classifies as a loli. Also Rory lived hundreds of years and has a petite body which should also classify as loli. People can call the village girls and merchant's daughter a loli, I mean that's the definition. The general idea is, they were around elders and parents. How would YOU feel if someone calls your daughter a loli? Right? Maybe they just weren't sexually attractive enough, who knows. I only referenced pornography for a simple reason as to show what that industry uses to define "loli" which is a similar definition to what many people agree on. |
| @Rehls If being a loli is determined by age and mind, then Rin from Kodomo no Jikan is not a loli. However, she is literally a young girl, who happens to be very sexually mature. Unless, age trumps mindset, then your definition is false. I believe you are mixing the language definition, from the character trope definition. |
 I'm a liar. Ignore that, I'm lying. |
Rehls said: @SimplyRivers That's a realistic show... right? She's not some hundred-years-old being, so chronological age is enough- she's a child, then. Sexually mature, like you say. But her mind is still that of a child - still undeveloped; she should fit as a true loli. No, she was physically underdeveloped, but she had a mindset of an adult. Misguided, but still adult-like. However, the loli character trope is defined by age, nor mindset. If the character is a girl, with a small, petite body type, she is a loli. What's with the over-complication? |
| I'm a liar. Ignore that, I'm lying. |
Rehls said: @Rukoudiora I already argued that Felt isn't a true loli. She's 15 years old (in mind, too) - a mid-teen. But if she were a preteen, then yeah - possibly. And the village girls and the merchant's daughter don't classify, either. I'll go by Google's definition: "Lo·li·ta lōˈlētə/ noun noun: Lolita; plural noun: Lolitas a sexually precocious young girl." Now if you search for 'young girl' in Images, you'll be shown mostly preteen girls. Felt has a matured-enough mind, to be considered a true loli... We've seen how she negotiated with Subaru, in the early episodes. Now would some 12 year old be capable of that? Would the village girl that Subaru interacted with in the latest episode be? She looks like Felt, doesn't she? But she appears much less developed mentally. Again, true lolis are preteens (in mind and body) sexually awoken. Because if they're not, then how can they satisfy, uh, sexually? Uh. In that story you referred to, like I said, the protagonist molested the girl. After he awakened her sexually, he then began asking the girl sexual favors? Yeah. Viewers calling preteen girls that aren't sexually awoken, 'loli', would be doing so wishfully. They'd be wishing they were. How many would want to consider Matsumaki from OPM a loli? Many. But that doesn't makes her be a true one. So as long as preteen girls exist, and Felt isn't one, I don't think she can fit. Wiki: "A preteen or preteenager is a person 12 and under. Generally, the term is restricted to those close to reaching age 12, especially age 11." "Although dictionary definitions generally define preadolescence as ranging from age 10–13 years, it may also be defined as the period from 9–14 years. While known as preadolescent in psychology, the terms preteen, preteenager or tween are common in everyday use. A preteen or preteenager is a person 12 and under. "A teenager, or teen, is a young person whose age falls within the range from thirteen through nineteen (13–19). They are called teenagers because their age number ends in "teen". Someone aged 18 or 19 is also considered a young adult." It's stated all over the internet that preteens are 12 and under. I understand where you're coming from and you're not wrong, but I've given my facts as to the other definition of a loli which people also go by. This alone proves that Felt is a loli. Going by yourdictionary's definition Noun. (usually uncountable, plural lolicons) (uncountable, anime) The sexual attraction to young girls. - this is your definition which I also agree on but there is another also from yourdictionary, literally the next line of the loli definition: (countable, anime) An individual fixated on young, generally prepubescent, girls. (uncountable, anime) Erotic or suggestive art depicting prepubescent females. - which proves my point. Felt is definitely a prepubescent female. I've looked at many places when I googled the definition of "loli" It's generally either : 1.) A sexually attractive young girl 2.) A female with a petite body (example) Even going by the definition of a Japanese website (Pixiv), it clearly states when translated: ""Loli" refers mainly to a (little) girl in her early teens or younger, or a person with the physical characteristics of a little girl." which I've already mentioned earlier. Keywords: A person with the Physical Characteristics of a little girl PHYSICAL |
Rehls said: Pfft. 'Mind of an adult'? Really? Being knowledgeable about s*x doesn't makes one an adult. She's still immature. xD It's just that like I said, Felt fits more as a Teen Loli. Before, you've said that teen lolis are not a thing. So, age doesn't matter? |
| I'm a liar. Ignore that, I'm lying. |
Rehls said: I've agreed that there are variations of loli. I said that even someone of Crusch's size could be considered a loli, if she had a mind of a 12 YO. Really, I can imagine it. But she'd be a kind of loli, hah. Lol, take a look at this: http://aminoapps.com/page/anime/9315326/types-of-lolis Also: http://aminoapps.com/page/anime/8349668/loli-types These aren't a too-reliable source, but still. So then, we do agree. |
| I'm a liar. Ignore that, I'm lying. |
| I don't get how the mind defines what is a loli. I just don't get that. But to each their own I suppose. From everything I gathered, I can only calculate that it's physical appearance that defines a loli. If you're dead set on that definition I suppose I can't change your mind. Cheers. |
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