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| SO EPIC ! |
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| I have a single question though. He definitely said thing about 'Deceiving the first-self, deceiving the world'. I understand that 'deceiving the self' part, since it will be simply using infinite ketchup works around dead-faking kurisu. However, how to deceive the 'world'?... Don't they also have to fake Kurisu's dead without entire world also thinking like that? |
| I screamed in front of the screen when Okabe accidentally killed Kurisu - I considered that possibility some weeks ago, but not in that way and not for the same reasons (Just a guess, to be honest). I can't wait for the next week. This anime is becoming epic. I hope the last episode keeps this impression. And 33 years old Okabe is f****** awesome. |
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| I am now going to end phone conversations with El Psy Congroo! |
ringoo4 said: I have a single question though. He definitely said thing about 'Deceiving the first-self, deceiving the world'. I understand that 'deceiving the self' part, since it will be simply using infinite ketchup works around dead-faking kurisu. However, how to deceive the 'world'?... Don't they also have to fake Kurisu's dead without entire world also thinking like that? Hmmm... Maybe it has to do with Okabe himself? Honestly, I feel like he's going to die. or atleast, get close to death. |
Darkfalz said: Okabe in the timeline where kurisu dies eventually becomes placed into WW3 since regardless of her death her dad jacks her papers and it starts the "arms race" I know okabe mentions 5.7 billion lives mean nothing to him but im sure that knowing his character, he wants to know the source. One thing leads to another he finds the source being kurisu and uses a already created time machine/makes his own (this one is more doubtful due to his motivation theory) and goes to see who the culprit is and winds up trying to stop the stabbing/stabs her himself. Despite having or not having a emotional attachment he witnessed/caused a murder causing him to scream, setting off the events of ep 1. Except that he would never get to use a time machine after the Kurisu incident. He was destinated to die in the year 2025 due to the convergence and the time machine wouldn't be completed until 2036. That's why he needed his other selves to do the deed for him in the first place. ringoo4 said: I have a single question though. He definitely said thing about 'Deceiving the first-self, deceiving the world'. I understand that 'deceiving the self' part, since it will be simply using infinite ketchup works around dead-faking kurisu. However, how to deceive the 'world'?... Don't they also have to fake Kurisu's dead without entire world also thinking like that? Okabe=The World Everything we have seen thus far revolves around Okabe's perspective. He IS the observer, what he observed becomes his own reality that is inconsistent to others. So basiscally deceiving himself is more or less the same with deceiving the(his) world. Operation Skuld is a masterplan to an engineered self-imposed paradox. adonnTime said: I have a question. Is it possible the dreams Okabe had in episode 6 and episode 12 be unknown world lines? Maybe they weren't really dreams, but actual world lines he remembered. Similar to how Muyuri's deaths came to Mayuri as dreams. Might be true. Given that Okabe is blessed with the Reading Steiner(his godly obsession). The event of Steins;Gate might be only the tip of the iceberg. We have no idea how and when this whole thing started and where it's leading to. Hell, this is loops within loops. God knows, maybe Okabe is somehow involved in the event of Robotics;Notes. Lol, it's always fun to speculate. |
Kyouma_ySep 8, 2011 10:33 PM
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Darkfalz89 said: It seems that you and morningglory have a very good grip on the plot of the show so i was hoping maybe I could get both of your perspectives on what you think happened in ep1. I find that if i just sat down and watched the series again without the week long memory lapses i had watching the series as it came out I would understand everything a bit more. Hell i remember when i watched ep 1 again after finishing ep 19 and i already caught on to several things i normally didnt think of. Everyone is mentioning a loop, does that mean finding a source; the start of the whole events surrounding okabe? I feel i can justify all the other events of ep 23, especially the part where he needs his past self to make things right. I know that as little of time travel i know of, that his present self wouldn't be able to do much in a time he doesnt originate from. With this comes the complications of convincing his past self to go through with this plan. If okabe never met kurisu then his past self wouldnt of been able to go through with all this. And for those of you noticed that the email he got from himself was dated 2025, so you just have to understand that hes on his last legs but still not giving up. What i find so fascinating is that not matter how many times you can watch a episode or the entire series of this anime you will always pick up something you didn't originally consider. What im still unsure of is how the scenario played out in ep 1, for every end there must be a beginning. There has to be a way that the first okabe that screamed in the first ep to have gotten there. I have a feeling that its something way too obvious and while i would like a better explanation of the blank video message he got i also feel we would get a better understanding if we knew how his future self got there. Everything else i feel would fall into place later on. I can't tell more given that we are only witnessing part of Okabe's whole experience. It would only bring more questions if we are to dig deeper to find its origin. This is like one of humanity's biggest debates: "When did the world start?" It seems that even Okabe himself has no clue of what he had possibly been through in all those distant worldlines, save for we audiences, which brings us to the question that has been bugging me - IF Okabe is gifted the Reading Steiner, then WHY in the Nine Hells does he not retain clear memories from said worldlines? Now this is something even more complicated than casuality I'm afraid. Memories. Consciousness. And those are topics that I would gladly aviod before my mind explodes =) |
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| ow....is the discussion is over? I think I am kinda late lol Actually this problem is very similar to Okabe+Kurisi found the IBM5100 before Suzuha even went back in time to retrieve it. (try watch at least 1 minute of episode 5) (If you relate this problem to that, it become) Actually Future Okabe in episode 1 already had a relationship with Kurisi in alpha world line before the past Okabe in beta world line sent the first D-mail. both example are using real human to sent themselves to the past . Its indeed very hard to make sense with this logic.... |
MorningGlorySep 9, 2011 4:37 AM
adonnTime said: Let me tell you a secret...Reading Steiner could be another form of human evolution. Something which evolved over the course of time in a small selection of humans. And thus, creating rare types of Reading Steiner like the one Okabe has. |
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Darkfalz said: In all honesty I think that like most people here, would like to believe that suzu's time machine can indeed cross not only time but world lines. But it cannot, since it will cause major paradox. Much bigger than the "Okabe Loop" The Alpha time machine was a basically a failure, since Daru and Okabe developed it in a hurry and was chased around by Rounders and had to fight them. It remains imperfect since Okabe and Daru dies before perfecting it while the Beta Time machine was perfect because Both Okabe and Daru finished it and by 2036 daru was still alive. Each Timeline only has 1 time machine. |
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kaimax said: I think he's talking about timelines.Darkfalz said: In all honesty I think that like most people here, would like to believe that suzu's time machine can indeed cross not only time but world lines. But it cannot, since it will cause major paradox. Much bigger than the "Okabe Loop" The Alpha time machine was a basically a failure, since Daru and Okabe developed it in a hurry and was chased around by Rounders and had to fight them. It remains imperfect since Okabe and Daru dies before perfecting it while the Beta Time machine was perfect because Both Okabe and Daru finished it and by 2036 daru was still alive. Each Timeline only has 1 time machine. @Darkfalz All sort of time travels cause divergence. Suzuha was originated from the timeline with a divergence of 0.000000%. When she arrived at 2010, it's already 0.5% diverged from her previous timeline. Yes, she didn't go back in time. She just ended up in a different point of time of a new timeline. The world has reconstructed itself. |
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kaimax said: Each Timeline only has 1 time machine. not true... there was a time machine race and world war III was started because of multiple time machines |
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shiromegami said: kaimax said: Each Timeline only has 1 time machine. not true... there was a time machine race and world war III was started because of multiple time machines Yup, SERN was just smart enough to only use them to threaten the world rather than fuck up the timeline like Suzuha and cause all of the things she was trying to prevent. |
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| Fuck yeah, he got all his libido back. Glad to know that years later, he seems to have retained it. |
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shiromegami said: kaimax said: Each Timeline only has 1 time machine. not true... there was a time machine race and world war III was started because of multiple time machines Nope it's true. Time Machine Race just means everyone in the world is racing to build a time machine, and the only time machine that worked is Daru's Time Machine C204 . If everyone use their completed Time Machine the Beta timeline will be a mess, since everyone is going to use the time machine for their own goals. This means there's no chance that Okabe can save Kurisu if everyone is using their Time machines. Basically Countries are at war because everyone is trying make one and each country also tries to stop other Time Machine projects in other countries. In conclusion There is only ONE Time machine that worked, which is Daru's C204 Time Machine operated by Beta Timeline Suzuha Other time machines project are incomplete or destroyed by the war Seriously, Do you think that SERN or any other country that completed their time machine will not use it immediately? SERN experimented on people turning them into Jellymans... |
kaimaxSep 9, 2011 7:21 PM
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shiromegami said: In Beta, the first working time machine(excluding Okabe's phone microwave) was completed in 2036 by Daru and SERN.kaimax said: Each Timeline only has 1 time machine. not true... there was a time machine race and world war III was started because of multiple time machines RedMage23 said: Suzuha can't change a thing in both worldlines. SERN dystopia and WWIII are inevitable. She is doomed to fail. No being that exists inside causality can ever break free from its shackle. Except Okabe, with his obsession, his Reading Steiner. It all depends on his choice. If he decides to give up after he killed Kurisu, the Operation Skuld will go in a full cycle again. But now he's going to destroy the very structure of the world, like he always claims.Yup, SERN was just smart enough to only use them to threaten the world rather than fuck up the timeline like Suzuha and cause all of the things she was trying to prevent. |
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| What happens when the first Okabe sends the d-mail saying Kurisu is dead, but she is alive? Is that where they enter the Steins Gate world line? |
rorinmaru said: Episode 24.What happens when the first Okabe sends the d-mail saying Kurisu is dead, but she is alive? Is that where they enter the Steins Gate world line? |
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| I can't wait to see how things are played out. It would take more than miracle for them to ruin the finale now. |
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Kyouma_y said: I can't wait to see how things are played out. It would take more than miracle for them to ruin the finale now. Yep. I don't see how they can ruin it, especially since imo this has been a series that constantly greatly exceeds already sky high expectations. 22-23-24 might end up as the godliest trio of episodes in a long time. At least, I hope the ending doesn't suck, because I'm looking at Steins;Gate as a possible new #1 for me. Endings matter big time and have caused many series to plummet down my list, yet only caused a few (Bebop, Geass) to move up my list. I so hope it's good. |
kaimax said: uh,I thought Nakabachi has something to do with the time machine and maybe He is the first one that build the time machine in beta world line.if not ,then I have no idea what is the point of him getting the time machine theory is such a big deal to the world.Nope it's true. Time Machine Race just means everyone in the world is racing to build a time machine, and the only time machine that worked is Daru's Time Machine C204 . The first one who make it is the first one that will change the world and the second people who finished the time machine and try to change the world will be undone by the attractor field. imo.....well suzuha have a hard time changing the world even if she has the time machine . After I finished playing the VN I somehow felt like |
MorningGlorySep 9, 2011 10:41 PM
but I think the experience of seeing a dead body should be traumatic enough to feed his obsession to save her. As long as we are talking about causality, the Okabe that started the loop isn't supposed to do anything except allowing his past selves to go back in time with a perfect time machine. Which can be created even right after the alpha timeline. I'm quite sure that even if we see him throwing away the phone microwave, he would have created another one later. In my opinion, Seeing Kurisu's body only unlock the video mail update, not the time machine Suzuha uses. Which is still necessary for an happy end since it's the "last thing" giving Okabe the courage to save Kurisu and without it, maybe mayushii slapping him wouldn't have been enough. And it would go through another loop again. Or rather, hurting Okabe* do this, to be more specific. future-Okabe saw Kurisu's body in ep1 (which should be, if I am not wrong, the second iteration?) and screamed, but the video mail still didn't work and it looped again. It only worked when he killed her himself later, which probably shocked him even more. Without this the first loop where everything began would be me or less impossible to solve. If seeing Kurisu's body after falling in love with her is needed in order to create the perfect time machine, I mean. No time machine (because no one was here to create it and send Suzuha. There is no future-Okabe yet.) = no way to see the body = no determination boost = no creation of a time machine. Kuh. Endless loop without a starting point. Maybe you could say that it's world lines, so we don't care about it, gradfather paradox isn't a problem, but there as to be a world line where everything began. And you need another time machine for this. Which comes from... you get the idea. (Unrelated, but the PV is quite funny about this by the way. "In order to save the girl, the boy leap through time again and again"... It looks like it is talking about Mayuri, until the end where you notice that "Okabes" (notice the plural) leaped WAY MORE OFTEN for Kurisu. There is at LEAST 3 Okabe included, maybe 4 or more.) I like the first case where he still find the body a lot better anyway (as I said, it's very possible that he is still the one who find the body at the VERY beginning, if only as an attractor in order to keep the story in order). I just wanted to show that even if it isn't the case, as long as we assume that the alpha timeline stay more or less the same, the causality is still respected. When your loved one die because of you, because you wanted to save someone else, and especially when you are Okabe... It's not so surprising to think about building a time machine in order to change things, even without seeing her dead yourself.They were already half-successful in the future of the alpha timeline, WITHOUT Makise's death, after all. But I liked what you said about fated to meet her in every single reality. It gives a different perspective on the attractor field and doesn't make it sound so evil. Attractors aren't evil per se. Kyouma is just one of the unluckiest guy in the universe. His best friend should be Touma. Now, I must REALLY read the novel. I learned that there was something I predicted about Nae that happens in the novel, but is skipped in the anime. And it makes me sad. REALLY sad. Sic. It would have been horribly disturbing to see. |
| ^ the Novel is stupid. don't read lol .Play the VN Without this the first loop where everything began would be me or less impossible to solve. Actually I always think that when Okabe switching between world line is equal to defying the world .sigh..its confusing and I think its much more easier if we think that Okabe switching between worldline is according to what the world wants him to do(attractor field).In the very first episode, I will still believe that Future Okabe in beta worldline comes from Alpha world line even before Okabe press the button and send the first D-mail because the future is already decided by the world from the first episode.. Okabe in first episode will send the first D-mail no matter what =P |
MorningGlorySep 9, 2011 11:26 PM
MorningGlory said: kaimax said: uh,I thought Nakabachi has something to do with the time machine and maybe He is the first one that build the time machine in beta world line.if not ,then I have no idea what is the point of him getting the time machine theory is such a big deal to the world.Nope it's true. Time Machine Race just means everyone in the world is racing to build a time machine, and the only time machine that worked is Daru's Time Machine C204 . The first one who make it is the first one that will change the world and the second people who finished the time machine and try to change the world will be undone by the attractor field. imo.....well suzuha have a hard time changing the world even if she has the time machine . After I finished playing the VN I somehow felt like The papers that was stolen from Kurisu was just Theories about time Machines. Nakabachi never build one, He just spread the theory around, and in result almost every country who has the knowledge are racing to make one for themselves. War starts out because other countries tries to destroy each others time Machine. In the end Daru was the first one to complete a time machine, while everyone else is still in development. |
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MorningGlory said: |
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MorningGlory said: |
adonnTime said: bakuramariks said: MorningGlory said: |
| I am also a VN reader btw.... |
MorningGlory said: I rewatched the first ep. The scream is totally different. |
| Regarding the difference between the scream from episode 1 and 23, I have a simple theory which makes the most sense to me. Spoiler just in case. |
OkaishiSep 10, 2011 7:32 AM
Okaishi said: Regarding the difference between the scream from episode 1 and 23, I have a simple theory which makes the most sense to me. Spoiler just in case. |
MorningGlory said: Yup, that's what I mean :P |
| Aw man. I so want to read this entire page of spoilers but I'll have to come back to it on Tuesday. |
Okaishi said: MorningGlory said: Yup, that's what I mean :P A whole page discussion about his scream xD. El Psy Congroo |
MorningGlory said: ^ the Novel is stupid. don't read lol .Play the VN Without this the first loop where everything began would be me or less impossible to solve. Actually I always think that when Okabe switching between world line is equal to defying the world .sigh..its confusing and I think its much more easier if we think that Okabe switching between worldline is according to what the world wants him to do(attractor field).In the very first episode, I will still believe that Future Okabe in beta worldline comes from Alpha world line even before Okabe press the button and send the first D-mail because the future is already decided by the world from the first episode.. Okabe in first episode will send the first D-mail no matter what =P I am not saying the opposite at all, don't worry, I did get this xD If I didn't after months on this anime I would seriously be ashamed xD I'm talking about what happens before ep1, off-screen here. That's why it's a little confusing, yeah, it's all theories. And I was talking about the visual novel, of course. Sorry for not precising. I'll bring my own little theory as well about the two screams |
| this discussion is created too early ....I think i will continue next week >< and yes willardhwright, everything is just assumption idea.If you think its logical then just take the idea ^^ |
| Why are the screams that important? I mean, don't you want to get creative and not just copy and paste the audio from the first episode to the semi-last ep? You have the seiyuu, so just have him do a simple scream. .-. |
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