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| Say what you want about the ending.... still the best anime of the fall season, Kuroneko said "I'll be calling him something else soon enough" Fingers crossed that means we get a Kuroneko | Kyouske | Kirrino love triangle :) |
soupykDec 25, 2010 9:59 AM
| That was fun he is truly a great brother to put up with her shit all the time. Somehow I think he has some kind of sister complex going for him. |
A2ZOMG said: In the first place, Kyosuke in many ways really just doesn't give a damn about what Kirino does, so why does he suddenly care now? It's also frankly appalling how ungrateful Kirino is throughout the entire series. Then things like kicking him in the balls, asking him to get run over by a truck for the sake of research, and immediately accusing him of inviting his childhood friend over for sexual reasons was just so over the top despicable. It's just out of place and unreasonable how much empathy Kirino lacks around her brother. I think it's mainly because of the bond that siblings share. Even if they hardly ever show it, deep down they do indeed love each other (be it in one way or another) and that's what makes this show so interesting. Kyosuke suddenly starts to care because he gets to know his little sister and so the bond between them strengthens. And Kirino is simply acting in the way a teenage little sister does. She doesn't understand that she can't have everything in the world so she takes it out on the one person she knows is able to handle it. She has a lot of trust in her big brother, even enough trust to think that he'll be all right even if he gets pushed out in front of a truck. And what happened between him and his childhood friend was a sheer act of jealousy from Kirinos side. Just like any other little sister her age, she felt a hidden jab of her brother being taken from her by a "stranger", so she acted in self-defence in a way where she could keep both her pride AND her brother. PS: If this was the "Good Ending" then I hope the other will be the "SUPER Good Ending" OwO ... That being said, it will probably end badly... o___o;; |
| I pretty much agree with Pen2LovesTabris above. We see Kirino's interactions as full of hidden meanings, not as something to take literally. A2ZOMG said: There's a bunch of reasons why Kirino and Kyosuke's relationship is mind-bogglingly irrational. In the first place, Kyosuke in many ways really just doesn't give a damn about what Kirino does, so why does he suddenly care now? The way I see it is that he cared for his sister all along, but at first he had no reason to suspect that she was having problems and needed help. The fact that they don't talk casually about anything is just the nature of their relationship. That doesn't mean they don't care. Just like two strangers of opposite sexes at a bar who are interested in each other but are the type who won't ever make the first move and approach someone. It's not until Kirino confronts him with her problems that he needs to actually get involved. A2ZOMG said: It's also frankly appalling how ungrateful Kirino is throughout the entire series. Then things like kicking him in the balls, asking him to get run over by a truck for the sake of research, and immediately accusing him of inviting his childhood friend over for sexual reasons was just so over the top despicable. It's just out of place and unreasonable how much empathy Kirino lacks around her brother. Again, this is just a difference in what we see communicated. You take her actions and words literally, so her being mean is actually her showing her anger, disgust, and hate. And you assume Kyousuke gets that same literal message, no hidden meanings or messages. If this is how you see it, then I'd agree that Kirino's behavior would make no sense, and she'd be an unrealistic total bitch. And Kyousuke's actions would also not make any sense and would appear unnatural and forced. But I see a very different relationship and very different messages communicated in their behaviors. I see her "abuse" of Kyousuke as a complex combination of her venting her frustrations, protecting her pride, overcoming her embarrassment, and expressing the seriousness of her problems. Kyousuke knows this too (or I should say that he feels this vibe, since this form of non-literal communication is rarely ever an exact message, but rather is more of a general feeling or tone). Because he understands this, he doesn't mistake her actions as hate or anything like that. That is why it doesn't upset him. I see Kirino as being quite grateful to Kyousuke throughout the entire series, and I believe he feels it too. I actually see it in the specific ways she interacts even while being "mean". Even the time she kicked him in the nuts, she did it to take some of the mushy embarrassment out of the sincere thing she wanted to say immediately following the kick. Like if a guy wanted to tell his male friend that he loves him (in a non-gay platonic way), he might punch him hard in the arm at the same time to prevent it from being awkward. This allows them both to pretend it's something else while still knowing the true meaning. Like plausible deniability. A2ZOMG said: She never shows remorse, or any sign of thinking outside of her own self interests. Because Kirino's abuse of Kyousuke is just a mostly fake outer shell for the entirely different messages communicated inside, and because Kyousuke sees the messages and doesn't take her actions and words literally, she really doesn't have much to feel remorse about. He gets the code messages, so he doesn't mistake the meaning or become upset. The only time Kyousuke was actually upset was when Kirino created a sexual tension between him and Manami by making her think he was perverted and liked girls with glasses (the porn incident in his room). And of course, we saw in that episode that she really was sorry for that. So I'd say that she is very normal on the inside, but what you see on the exterior is just how she protects her pride and tries to meet everyone's expectations of her. She finds it very difficult to show weakness. |
TimofmarsDec 26, 2010 2:34 AM
| See the main reason why I don't agree with your statement is because there is a blatantly huge lack of character development in this show. Kirino's relationship with Kyosuke for 12 episodes literally never changes. Right until the end, she still expects him to slave away for her obsessions, and she's still lashing out at him for the smallest things. It's not fun or realistic to watch the same ridiculously awful routine happening over and over again. Whether or not there is a hidden message to it all, it doesn't change the fact that there is literally a huge lack of character development. The whole thing with Kyosuke, Manami, and Kirino's reaction to it was never actually resolved. You say Kirino felt sorry, when in fact she never actually apologized for it, and in fact made the same misunderstanding when Kuroneko made an obviously fake advance towards Kyosuke. Furthermore, her compensation gift wasn't an act of generosity. It was a hand me down of a game she already completed, furthermore with the assumption that after loaning her computer to Kyosuke, he would be obliged to complete the game himself. |
A2ZOMGDec 26, 2010 2:56 AM
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| Im more of a plot-heavy type person so when the slice of life element started coming in I found this anime kinda boring. I really loved the starting 3-4 episodes (with highlights being the ending of ep 3 and the kousaka's confrontation of his dad which was awesome) but for me it started to go downhill from there. The ending was pretty boring, and the slight bit of drama at the end made it even worse. Instead of developing the whole america thing over a few episodes they just did it in about 5 minutes which just made the ending feel rushed and crappy. But I must admit, the kuroneko scene at the end was brillant and had me laughing =). Totally agree with the lack of char developement point that ^^ makes. Personally I am not into the whole slice of life thing so I didnt have high expectations to begin with, but the start of this anime was so dam good that it made the ending really disappointing for me. Overall 7/10 from me. This anime has also made me sick of the following things: Moefangs Tsundere chars blushing of any kind on female characters since almost every female in the show had a perma blush face on for 22x12 mins so basically: moe in general.. I needa go watch something like beserk now hahaha |
ManifestDec 26, 2010 5:08 AM
     last.fm ╢ My CG AMV ╢ Otaku Test ╢ |
A2ZOMG said: The whole thing with Kyosuke, Manami, and Kirino's reaction to it was never actually resolved. You say Kirino felt sorry, when in fact she never actually apologized for it, and in fact made the same misunderstanding when Kuroneko made an obviously fake advance towards Kyosuke. Furthermore, her compensation gift wasn't an act of generosity. It was a hand me down of a game she already completed, furthermore with the assumption that after loaning her computer to Kyosuke, he would be obliged to complete the game himself. In the 11th episode, the first half was the incident with Manami, and the 2nd half was the "anime party" which Saori later explained had the purpose of cheering Kyousuke up and allowing Kirino to apologize. Because Kirino was reluctant to go through with her planned part in the party, Kyousuke misunderstood the purpose of the party and actually got a bit upset. He specifically says he was depressed about his situation with Manami and he couldn't understand why they were teasing him now as if they were being mean and rubbing salt in the wound. That's when Kirino finally went through with her part and apologized. I thought the eroge gift Kirino gave Kyousuke was really cute. The message I saw her sending to Kyousuke with that gift was that she wanted to connect more with him by sharing her hobby with him. She has already in the past forced him to play eroges so that she can talk with him about it and spend time together. So she wants more of that. It's the equivalent of her planning a trip to a beach resort for just the two of them. It screams, "I want to spend time with you". If you see it from that viewpoint, it's freaking adorable. You guys are missing out on how cute Kirino is throughout the show because of the different way you understand her behavior. Even Kyousuke sees it that way, because if not, his behavior doesn't make sense. With the way I see it, both he and Kirino seem very realistic. And regarding character development... I still think you're missing the subtleties in Kirino's interactions with Kyousuke, which do develop over the episodes. But only if you're in-tune with the "coded" messages and feelings be communicated. If you just see it as her having varying degrees of inexplicable bitchiness, it all looks the same I suppose. |
Timofmars said: What did Kirino even apologize for? There is a huge difference between what you say she means and what the show actually does, and what the show actually does is not an apology for anything in specific. At best, it feels fake and washed up, and only shows Kirino's insensitivity at her best. On top of the fact that Kirino still continued to be an over the top bitch over the smallest things, it really didn't seem like a legitimate apology, especially since she couldn't be specific.In the 11th episode, the first half was the incident with Manami, and the 2nd half was the "anime party" which Saori later explained had the purpose of cheering Kyousuke up and allowing Kirino to apologize. Because Kirino was reluctant to go through with her planned part in the party, Kyousuke misunderstood the purpose of the party and actually got a bit upset. He specifically says he was depressed about his situation with Manami and he couldn't understand why they were teasing him now as if they were being mean and rubbing salt in the wound. That's when Kirino finally went through with her part and apologized. I thought the eroge gift Kirino gave Kyousuke was really cute. The message I saw her sending to Kyousuke with that gift was that she wanted to connect more with him by sharing her hobby with him. She has already in the past forced him to play eroges so that she can talk with him about it and spend time together. So she wants more of that. It's the equivalent of her planning a trip to a beach resort for just the two of them. It screams, "I want to spend time with you". To me, it just means the characters are ridiculously unbelievable. The cruelties that Kirino inflicted on her brother and her apology are extremely unbalanced, and only show that she truly lacks any sensitivity for the situation. Kyosuke is obviously a bit exasperated or grossed out by Kirino's gift, and to me it was a COMPLETELY irrational gift choice. Kyosuke doesn't even own the computer in the first place, nor does he enjoy playing eroge. It's simply forcing another whim upon him, and the fact he goes along with it without question doesn't make sense at this point.If you see it from that viewpoint, it's freaking adorable. You guys are missing out on how cute Kirino is throughout the show because of the different way you understand her behavior. Even Kyousuke sees it that way, because if not, his behavior doesn't make sense. With the way I see it, both he and Kirino seem very realistic. |
A2ZOMGDec 26, 2010 4:47 PM
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A2ZOMG said: You say Kirino felt sorry, when in fact she never actually apologized for it, and in fact made the same misunderstanding when Kuroneko made an obviously fake advance towards Kyosuke. Oh, forgot this one... Kirino wasn't mad at Kuro here. She just found Kyousuke's reaction embarrassing. He was flustered and blushing. So naturally, she tells him to get those perverted thoughts about her friend out of his mind. How can you not understand a little sister being uncomfortable with her older brother fawning over her friend who's the same age as her? And regarding the idea that Kirino is an over-the-top bitch over the smallest things... Her intent matters, as does how she is received by others. If her words and actions aren't meant to be taken literally, and the person on the receiving end understands her intent, then it means that the two are getting along well and communicating effectively. If intent doesn't matter, then you should get equally upset with sarcastic people. Do you know any group of friends are really cruel to each other, but where all the friends involved seem okay with it because they know that the intent isn't truly malicious? I do. They may act like assholes to each other, but it's really not the same thing as being a true hate-driven asshole. Kirino's actions have nothing to do with hurting anyone's feelings. How she acts with different people is just the way she finds it most comfortable to deal with different uncomfortable situations. Like when Kuroneko ridicules Kirino's favorite anime, someone like Manami would turtle-up and be quiet. But Kirino responds by mimicking Kuro's tone and starting a passionate but friendly argument. Saori and Kyousuke just sit back and smile at just how well they are getting along. So while you see no chemistry between Kirino and Kuro, the other characters and I see a great chemistry. Good meaningful relationships don't need to be all wholesome and polite. |
| So, this is the end? Except for that "Im going to america" scene, nothing really happened. The episode finished with everything going back to normal, and nothing else. Well, I guess I just want more of this anime. It really needs more character developement. |
Maugomale said: I'll turn around your argument and ask you why you can make any assumptions about what you know about Kirino and Kyosuke. Furthermore since the first episode, we know Kyosuke is only playing eroge because his sister is forcing it upon him. He has no familiarity, or understanding of the appeal to eroge.She knew Kyousuke was upset thanks to her little trap in his room, and apologized for it. It's not that hard to figure out. He doesn't enjoy playing them? I asked you this before once, and I'm gonna ask again: how the blazes do you know what's on his mind? How do you know he doesn't like playing eroge? You're just twisting the facts to make it seem like Kirino is the devil reincarnated, when she isn't all that. Jeez, take off your hate googles for a second... I'm stating exactly what happened in the show, and the events that transpired do not make realistic or believable characters. And the same interactions happen for 12 straight episodes without any sign of character development. The only arguments for "development" are in fact assumptions, not facts, when the facts are that the relationship that Kyosuke and Kirino exhibit never changes from Kirino making Kyosuke do her bidding and as a result go through hell and irrational bitchyness. This isn't a realistic story. |
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| I am gushing and raging at the same time. Sighs~ |
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Maugomale said: He doesn't enjoy playing them? I asked you this before once, and I'm gonna ask again: how the blazes do you know what's on his mind? How do you know he doesn't like playing eroge? You're just twisting the facts to make it seem like Kirino is the devil reincarnated, when she isn't all that. Jeez, take off your hate googles for a second... Yeah. he was not interested at all, he even said, i don't want to play eroge though i will keep your secret. she forced him to play eroge. Timofmars said: Kirino's actions have nothing to do with hurting anyone's feelings No offense intended but this statement is totally win as a joke, are you trying to prove she didn't even know about her actions. She kicked her brother from the chair just because he kicked a game character, or she insulted manami, gave her orders to clean the room, put kyoske ero magazines on the bed and after all that, if she don't know what is she doing, then was she mentally unstable? which is not the case. a top student, top athlete, top in everything. All i think is, author make her like a super tsundere type character, which is not explainable in normal human sense. a stereotype chara. which we normally see in different shows but this series didn't do any justice with her character. no matter how someone put it, if it was because of her past from VN. thats why she had bad behavior with her brother, then you have to accept she is not tsundere type character but getting her revenge. |
Han-yuuDec 27, 2010 4:55 AM
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| Have no idea why he goes with this life counseling. It's not like he is being blackmailed. The goth girl looked so cute with those ears. I also liked how it turned into A VN when he chose the album. They should do that VN thing,but no to much. Gotta love those Yaoi fangirls. I see a Yaoi doujin of those two male friends in the future, 10/10 |
Tsuki-Hime said: Timofmars said: Kirino's actions have nothing to do with hurting anyone's feelings No offense intended but this statement is totally win as a joke, are you trying to prove she didn't even know about her actions. She kicked her brother from the chair just because he kicked a game character, or she insulted manami, gave her orders to clean the room, put kyoske ero magazines on the bed and after all that, if she don't know what is she doing, then was she mentally unstable? which is not the case. a top student, top athlete, top in everything. Lol. She knows her actions of course. But obviously she's not trying to hurt the feelings of her brother while she's asking him for help. That makes no sense, right? What's happening is that she's embarrassed and uncomfortable talking sincerely with her brother. Talking to him like a close friend is just awkward, especially for her, but for Kyousuke too. So she manages to remove that awkwardness by preventing the conversations from being too buddy-buddy, too polite. Like whenever Kyousuke makes a very concerned facial expression, she would whack him because it makes her uncomfortable. Maybe you had a fight with someone a long time ago and stopped talking to them. And for years you didn't talk. Well, you might think that the person is still angry with you after all that time and you might still act coldly towards them even though you don't hate them anymore. You do this because it's a bit awkward to act friendly and still not talk. So it's easier to pretend you are still angry to justify not talking. It became normal for you keep acting like you hate them, especially if you think they still hate you too (even though they may be completely over it and you just don't know it). Kirino's relationship with her brother is similar. She feels that she is expected to be annoyed to be talking to her brother. She wants to act like she doesn't care. But at the same time, she is able to communicate her true feelings even while being abusive. Kyousuke knows her abuse is fake and that she does it just to not feel so embarrassed as she would by opening up to Kyousuke in a more genuine and exposed way. And he knows what she really mean by it all. The thing with Manami was a bit different. Kirino was skeptical of Manami and assumed she might be a bad person who would steal Kyousuke away. So she tried to push Manami away. Manami showed her dedication and goodness and changed Kirino's mind about her. She passed the test, basically. Kirino acted this way because she was being protective of her brother. It was nothing personal against Manami. The trap she set with the porn magazines is a little harder to know for sure. It certainly wasn't anything meant to harm Manami. How I understand it was that it was an attempt to scare Manami away from Kyousuke. So even though at that point she though Manami was a good person, she didn't want her to get too close to Kyousuke and cause Kirino's relationship with Kyousuke to go back to what it was before where she doesn't get to spend time with him. She wants to keep Kyousuke in her life, and that's very important to her. So with that in mind, what she did is very understandable, imo. And cute. |
| With all the above being said, I want to try and add some more context to their relationship. At the beginning of the manga, you get some extra thoughts of Kyousuke that the anime didn't portray; and that is that Kyousuke knows his sister is intelligent, atheletic, pretty much a very gifted and talented teenager. Whereas he wasn't really anything special, not like a delinquent like his Clannad counterpart, but all Kyousuke had going for his character was just his personality. Given that, I believed that he was also taken aback by the sheer "level" difference between him and his sister, which made him become distant from her, because he just didn't feel worthy. Kirino, on the receiving end, took this shame as Kyousuke neglecting her, and thus through this miscommunication we have the relationship that OreImo establishes. This certainly would explain how Kyousuke still loves his sister but is not proactive about it, while Kirino would think that her brother doesn't care about her in the slightest. I always thought Kirino was trying to get closer to Kyousuke throughout the series. The so-called "life counselling" was, in my opinion, no more than a means for Kirino to be able to have a serious conversation with her brother and connect with him. The "last life counselling" we saw in ep 12 was meant to be the one where Kirino says farewell to her brother before going to America. But in the good end where Kirino doesn't go overseas, she asks Kyousuke for more "life counselling" which I think by then both of them have figured out that it's more chances for them to spend time together as siblings. So even the very last moment of ep 12 was actually quite sweet because Kirino basically said: "Since I'm not going to American, I want to spend more time with you." Kirino's dere side definitely progressed alot throughout the series, even though she may not have expressed her feelings in the most direct of ways. Sometimes you don't have to say "I love you" to show that you love someone; and that's just one of the creative factors of this anime. |
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Maugomale said: Completely false. I have no character favoritism for this show. I dislike the entire cast of Ore no Imouto and believe that as a whole, nobody is well developed.Oh fine, I give up. Not worth it trying to argue with you guys. I'm gonna call it now, everyone who's rated this show poorly will be giving the specials an insta-10/10 because... It's all about character favoritism in the end. People don't try to understand their backgrounds, and are pretty quick to point the finger at the ones who don't meet their perfect criteria... Ore no Imouto is a prime example of decent concept, but amazingly bad execution. All the characters and interactions are just over the top unrealistic and out of place for a "realistic" setting. And there is next to no character development at all by the strict definition of the term. All "development" in this show is an illusion created by the assumptions of people who think they can extract extra meaning from everything that is just completely and utterly irrational about this show. The facts are that Kirino's relationship with Kyosuke never changes over 12 episodes. For the entire show, she never truly has any empathy for her brother's situation. She orders him around constantly, lashes out at him for the smallest things, and pretty much never shows any remorse or appreciation for any of the many many many times Kyosuke takes the fall for her. Her washed up apology in episode 11 wasn't directed towards anything in specific, and thus doesn't count. First three or so episodes were good. After that the show completely failed. |
A2ZOMGDec 27, 2010 5:57 PM
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A2ZOMG said: Ore no Imouto is a prime example of decent concept, but amazingly bad execution. All the characters and interactions are just over the top unrealistic and out of place for a "realistic" setting. And there is next to no character development at all by the strict definition of the term. All "development" in this show is an illusion created by the assumptions of people who think they can extract extra meaning from everything that is just completely and utterly irrational about this show. Lol, you feel this way only because you misinterpret Kirino's actions and behavior, which is the main draw of the show besides the comedy. If you don't get that, the show makes no sense, so seems very unrealistic. But if you understand it as intended, it's actually so natural and realistic for an anime that it's noteworthy. In fact, the review I wrote after watching six episodes (which I need to get around to updating) actually has the realism as a main positive point. I also noted that Kyousuke was a great character because he acts in a way I can empathize with and imagine myself acting the same way, unlike most male lead characters (while you can't understand why he acts the way he does. It's crazy how our perspectives could lead someone to believe we're watching two different shows. Here's the relevant part of my review: So either the writers made such an obviously nonsensical story and characters to the extent that it doesn't make sense that they'd even write it... and all of us who see this other side to the story are just coincidentally seeing something that doesn't exist. OR there really is a deeper meaning to Kirino's behavior and relationships that makes so much sense that we find it not just believable, but actually realistic. Occam's Razor should tell you which is the most probable answer. |
TimofmarsDec 27, 2010 8:35 PM
Timofmars said: Actually quite on the contrary, I believe we have an equal understanding of the situation. The difference is I accept the situation as unrealistic and non-representative of societal values.Lol, you feel this way only because you misinterpret Kirino's actions and behavior, which is the main draw of the show besides the comedy. If you don't get that, the show makes no sense, so seems very unrealistic. But if you understand it as intended, it's actually so natural and realistic for an anime that it's noteworthy. In fact, the review I wrote after watching six episodes (which I need to get around to updating) actually has the realism as a main positive point. I also noted that Kyousuke was a great character because he acts in a way I can empathize with and imagine myself acting the same way, unlike most male lead characters (while you can't understand why he acts the way he does. What this show INTENDS is demonstrating a mutual understanding between brother and sister that the sister's hobbies are not a detriment to anyone. This is something however that they FAIL to do except in basically the first three episodes. After that, they try to feed more of the same, except the way they do it simply comes off as repetitive and uninspiring. In fact, I would go so far to say it even appears that the relationship regresses for the simple fact that compared to what happens in the first episode, there are significantly fewer moments of mutual understanding between Kyosuke and Kirino where the opportunity to explain misunderstandings is allowed. Furthermore they do a lot of unrealistic things that really just make Kirino's hobby look unacceptable. Kirino asking Kyosuke to get run over by a truck, some deus ex machina featuring Kanako, and Kirino getting an anime and then having the gall to believe she could rant for like 10 minutes straight to the directors about every detail she wanted in her show were probably by far the most unrealistic things that happened. Kirino being completely oblivious to Kyosuke's help in many of those episodes is also unrealistic and bad, as well has her lack of getting anything out of playing her eroge. I'm not expecting a perfect relationship. But from a student who has as diverse knowledge from high grades and what is probably years of eroge experience, the fact she can't lighten up around her brother for 12 straight episodes is fundamentally a joke. And I'm not laughing. To me whoever was directing this show lacked creativity and the ability to tell a story. It's just an episodic fantasy of washed up motivations and fake emotions when the story after three episodes does nowhere nearly as well in explaining the fundamental reasoning behind everything. And worst of all, it's a huge insult in the representation of anime fans. I dare say looking at myself and my own little sister, anime fans are not generally crazy, ridiculously self centered, and unappreciative like Kirino is. |
A2ZOMGDec 28, 2010 1:39 AM
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| Tl;dr "Nyoro~n" Also, needs more Ayase. |
| Protip: I don't really check the forums anymore, so if you want something, take it on my profile. Is it time for my long-awaited return to the forums? щ(ﾟДﾟщ) Nope™, probably not. |
| It may be possible to change someone's standpoint by explaining our logic. However we can't change someone's taste by showing our feelings most of the time. We call it "tade kuu mushi mo sukizuki (There is no accounting fo taste)" or diversity and it's just fine. You can see examples in the battle between Kirino and Kuroneko claiming how their favourite anime is superior than the others in episode 2, etc. The producers foresaw how we are going to argue over their work , since they are pros and beforehand they made this anime controversial for some parties. If you are arguing, you are already in their trap. By the way, in case that there might be any cultural difference between here and there, some context should be explained. 1. yamato nadeshiko (obedient good mannered girls) Japanese girls are no more yamato nadeshiko. Especially, junior high to high school girls are actually rude. The word "kimoi (gross)" is extremely popular among them like "kawaii (cute)". If you are a middle-aged dad, you may not be allowed to wash your clothes with theirs. 2.iwanu ga hana (Speech is silver, silence is gold) divineiniquity said: His opinion is quite right. We don't have to express our feelings or thought directly or in our words all the time. You should kuuki wo yomu (read between the lines). It's nothing special for us and them (Kirino, Kyousuke, etc).Kirino's dere side definitely progressed alot throughout the series, even though she may not have expressed her feelings in the most direct of ways. Sometimes you don't have to say "I love you" to show that you love someone; and that's just one of the creative factors of this anime. 3. development in tundere style "I cannot see any development in the relationship between those siblings". < Didn't you really notice anything through these twelve episodes? In such a case, I have a suitable quote for you. Kuroneko said "Who can say your method (opinion) is the right one? If you have time to complain all day then reread (rewatch) the original (episodes)." |
kuroneko99Dec 28, 2010 10:04 PM
| It's been fun while it lasted, looking forward to watch the OVAs. |
| I'll side with the guys who realize this is a bad adaptation of a relatively good light novel. The last episode has almost neon signs saying "this is not the real ending, see the OVA's for that." We have Kirino suddenly go from an incredibly bitchy sister to a perfect sister all in the course of one night which was a trap not only to get Kyosuke to stop her but also a ploy from the producers to get us to like her. Too bad for them but they can't expect people to like her in literally 2 episodes after watching 10 episodes of Kirino being a self-centered spoiled princess. As for what I said of the good-real ending fiasco, let's just say that episode 12 is an alternative version of what was supposed to happen. My assumption (and that of others it seems) is that the so called True Ending, which they announced when they talked of the 4 OVA episodes, will be the actual events from the LN which will lead on to a possible second season. As it stands right now a second season can't be done without resorting to a lot of filler and changes. Ironic how they made a filler episode denouncing the changes when adapting original material yet they themselves did incredible amounts of changes. As for what I rate this series, I really liked some parts of it. I give it a 6/10 because there's several characters I loved. It's too bad I completely hated the main heroine which ruined a lot of it for me. |
Leon-GunDec 29, 2010 1:48 PM
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A2ZOMG said: What this show INTENDS is demonstrating a mutual understanding between brother and sister that the sister's hobbies are not a detriment to anyone. I really don't think that was the point of the show. Kyousuke never felt Kirino's hobbies were detrimental even from the first moment he discovered them. The point of the show is comedy and cuteness. A2ZOMG said: In fact, I would go so far to say it even appears that the relationship regresses for the simple fact that compared to what happens in the first episode, there are significantly fewer moments of mutual understanding between Kyosuke and Kirino where the opportunity to explain misunderstandings is allowed. I definitely disagree that their relationship regresses. And I don't know what misunderstandings you are talking about. Throughout the series, Kyousuke understands what Kirino is communicating and doesn't take her words and actions at literal face value. A2ZOMG said: Furthermore they do a lot of unrealistic things that really just make Kirino's hobby look unacceptable. Kirino asking Kyosuke to get run over by a truck, some deus ex machina featuring Kanako, and Kirino getting an anime and then having the gall to believe she could rant for like 10 minutes straight to the directors about every detail she wanted in her show were probably by far the most unrealistic things that happened. Kirino being completely oblivious to Kyosuke's help in many of those episodes is also unrealistic and bad, as well has her lack of getting anything out of playing her eroge. You said we have an equal understanding of the situation in the show, but what you say here shows that we don't. I never for a second believed Kirino wanted Kyousuke to get hit by a truck. It was simply another opportunity for her to pretend she doesn't care about him, like a grade school boy might pretend he doesn't like girls because it's cool to not like girls. The only way you could possibly think she was serious is if you were taking her literally in all her exchanges with Kyousuke, which you are, and which is why you believe she is a bitch. I'm not sure what Kanako has to do with the point you're making. If it's just that it's unrealistic/convenient, I don't see why. Ayase is a model and has modeling friends. That's not a stretch. And why on Earth was it unrealistic for Kirino to give a list of details she had in mind for her anime? It's her anime, so why wouldn't she think that the producers would be receptive to her ideas? She is passionate about that kind of stuff, especially little sisters, and she know a lot about anime and the voice actors and that kind of stuff. I'd totally expect her to have all these details in her mind because she is the author and has a specific mental image of what her story is and how it would be great (at least according to her tastes). Of course she wants it accurately portrayed as she intended it. Regarding Kirino being oblivious to Kyousuke's help... Huh? It still seems that you need to see Kirino literally say "thank you" to see her appreciation. But I (and Kyousuke) see her appreciation in the variations in her behavior (even a disdainful "Hmmph!" in circumstances when she'd normally say or do something mean is a "thank you" in Kirino-speak. And lastly, how can you say she doesn't get anything out of playing eroge? She enjoys it. She loves little sisters and thinks they are very cute. So the way they act in eroges just tickles her soft spot for them. Even if you don't understand Kirino's interactions with others, you should understand this. I think you're grasping at straws now. |
TimofmarsDec 30, 2010 7:26 AM
Timofmars said: That's be well and good if she understood at all the insanity of several of her requests. She expected them to follow every single request and demand for a short 1 volume novel that was picked to fill a last time hole. You can't go in expecting you'll be getting big time seiyuu and staff, she's lucky to even have the adaptation at all. She had no concept of the difficulties of creating an anime, beggining by the limitations in budget, difficulties getting specific staff members, the constraints of adapting a book into 22-24 minute episodes, heck even the target audience of the timeslot alloted to the show has to come into mind.And why on Earth was it unrealistic for Kirino to give a list of details she had in mind for her anime? It's her anime, so why wouldn't she think that the producers would be receptive to her ideas? She is passionate about that kind of stuff, especially little sisters, and she know a lot about anime and the voice actors and that kind of stuff. I'd totally expect her to have all these details in her mind because she is the author and has a specific mental image of what her story is and how it would be great (at least according to her tastes). Of course she wants it accurately portrayed as she intended it. In essence, I actually though what they were gonna do was the right thing, although for far different and obvious reasons. The book had just 1 volume which, judging by the length of most light novels, would have hardly been enough to justify 12 episodes (an OVA series would have been more suitable). So they had to either add in fillers or just make a new story altogether based on the same world. They had their 12 episodes, she had her adaptation deal along with publicity, everyone should be happy. |
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| And she should know all that why? She's 14, is totally new to the inside of the industry, and has been told nothing about budgets, limitations, or the fact that she was picked in a rush to fill a unexpected hole. Even if she knew all that, I'd still find it normal for her to want to give her ideas, or else what's the point of even having her come to the meeting? She's part of the discussion, she's passionate about it, and she thinks she has some great ideas to share that would help make a great anime. And for the icing on the cake, she didn't demand anything. She was saying that if it were possible, that these were the things she thinks would work best. To call this unrealistic seems ridiculous to me. |
| 7/10 for this series While being a big fan of Kiririn herself, I felt that this series was a bit weak. However I will watch any kind of sequel gladly! |
Timofmars said: It's important to note that it's already unrealistic that not just did her ridiculous imouto novel got published, it sold enough to justify an adaptation. If she really had no idea how it worked her agent should have or would have double-checked things with her and ensured she was well-informed for the meeting and that her ideas were actually viable. That said, you hid behind her age just now which is rather funny. I'm yet to find a 14 year old teenager who's also a gorgeous model, good at school, gifted at athletic events and also writes top selling novels all at once (let alone her imouto eroge obsession).And she should know all that why? She's 14, is totally new to the inside of the industry, and has been told nothing about budgets, limitations, or the fact that she was picked in a rush to fill a unexpected hole. Even if she knew all that, I'd still find it normal for her to want to give her ideas, or else what's the point of even having her come to the meeting? She's part of the discussion, she's passionate about it, and she thinks she has some great ideas to share that would help make a great anime. And for the icing on the cake, she didn't demand anything. She was saying that if it were possible, that these were the things she thinks would work best. To call this unrealistic seems ridiculous to me. As a little note, she didn't demand it but she certainly reacted as if they were so horrible beasts once they ignored her ideas. I'd be glad to have not been laughed at after her cringe-worthy scene. All in all, all that was just anime-original anyway. I have no qualm with the original material, I don't have as much knowledge about it to formulate a good opinion of it at all. But let's not delude ourselves here, this anime was a disappointment, especially considering the amount of hype it created. |
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| Sooo, I really laughed my arse off at times. Nice to see her dere side too. But what got my thinking is this one single line, when Kirino complains that Ruri calling Kyousuke "Nii-san" sounds gross: Kyou X Ruri hint for the "true ending"? Sure hope so! Opinions? |
Xeo said: Sooo, I really laughed my arse off at times. Nice to see her dere side too. But what got my thinking is this one single line, when Kirino complains that Ruri calling Kyousuke "Nii-san" sounds gross: Kyou X Ruri hint for the "true ending"? Sure hope so! Opinions? I would much prefer kyouske and saori withough glasses xD |
Xeo said: Sooo, I really laughed my arse off at times. Nice to see her dere side too. But what got my thinking is this one single line, when Kirino complains that Ruri calling Kyousuke "Nii-san" sounds gross: Kyou X Ruri hint for the "true ending"? Sure hope so! Opinions? |
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Leon-Gun said: It's important to note that it's already unrealistic that not just did her ridiculous imouto novel got published, it sold enough to justify an adaptation. If she really had no idea how it worked her agent should have or would have double-checked things with her and ensured she was well-informed for the meeting and that her ideas were actually viable. This is like saying it's unrealistic that Snow White actually trusted a creepy stranger enough to eat a poisoned apple. "OreImo" was never meant to be a realistic story. That should be apparent by the setting, and by the first episode. To demand realism out of a fantasy story... is absurd. It's not a major motivation/plot hole. |
8thSinJan 3, 2011 7:55 PM
arsonal said: 'nuff said. This was the highlight of the episode for me. Kuroneko definitely stole the episode, despite her 5 second appearence. Let's get this 4 episode special underway! I want to see the "True Ending". KuronekoXKyousuke, please? xD This is, overall, my pick for the Fall 2010 season. Definitely an enjoyable watch. Looking forward to the BD/DVD releases. |
8th_Sin said: Hopefully you realize I was answering to someone who did argue her actions were realistic enough. Of course I know she's not even meant to be realistic. although they did try at points to keep a facade of fake realism.Leon-Gun said: It's important to note that it's already unrealistic that not just did her ridiculous imouto novel got published, it sold enough to justify an adaptation. If she really had no idea how it worked her agent should have or would have double-checked things with her and ensured she was well-informed for the meeting and that her ideas were actually viable. This is like saying it's unrealistic that Snow White actually trusted a creepy stranger enough to eat a poisoned apple. "OreImo" was never meant to be a realistic story. That should be apparent by the setting, and by the first episode. To demand realism out of a fantasy story... is absurd. It's not a major motivation/plot hole. |
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| i cant believe the MAL score for this show.. such a brilliant anime and that rating just don't match :o |
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Leon-Gun said: Hopefully you realize I was answering to someone who did argue her actions were realistic enough. Of course I know she's not even meant to be realistic. although they did try at points to keep a facade of fake realism. I get that, but a flawed response to a (allegedly) flawed argument is... still flawed. I don't see where they attempted to pass this series as realistic at all. I mean, yeah, there were some 'real life' issues explored, but those were obviously for otaku glorification --> fairyland story development. Kirino's actions mostly make sense given the premise IMO... Given her personality, it's not a stretch to think there was no time for a planning session in advance? Maybe she came in late because she's such a busy girl? Perhaps they had one, but she got so excited that she forgot? People don't always act rationally, especially for a moody girl like Kirino, and this was certainly not an overwhelmingly irrational action. Either way, the premise is so much of a fantasy (as you said, her being miss perfect, and also since her personality is exact opposite of typical otaku) that clearly shows zero intention of actual realism. |
8thSinJan 5, 2011 8:18 PM
| I disliked this anime. The brother was too submissive for my taste. Kriino and her Tsundere façade was really displeasing. Just my opinion. I am not going to watch a season 2 if it is released. |
| After I watched ore no imouto character commentary episode 1 and 2, I noticed Kousaka's characteristics changes and he becomes more like the light novel. Instead of being all "hit me please becuase i am a punching bag" he jokes around and make some sexual jokes. Not really trying to spoil anything but hopefully the season 2 (mentioned in commentary episode 1) will have the characteristic of Kousaka in light novel ;) |
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jasonhan416 said: Shouldn't things like that be expected from the first season too? They're more likely just trying to tease fans into buying new material (OVA and commentaries and all that). Expect the second season to go just like the first with plenty of filler and characters being out-of-character as it were.After I watched ore no imouto character commentary episode 1 and 2, I noticed Kousaka's characteristics changes and he becomes more like the light novel. Instead of being all "hit me please becuase i am a punching bag" he jokes around and make some sexual jokes. Not really trying to spoil anything but hopefully the season 2 (mentioned in commentary episode 1) will have the characteristic of Kousaka in light novel ;) |
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