mira-nyan said: 1) It doesn't matter. She just needs IA + Prana burst + Excalibur to win in one go. Couldn't she do the same against Gilgamesh if he hasn't Ea taken out yet at that moment? Escpacially if it's still "locked" in the special vault that he needs the key for... |
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Grey-Zone said: mira-nyan said: 1) It doesn't matter. She just needs IA + Prana burst + Excalibur to win in one go. Couldn't she do the same against Gilgamesh if he hasn't Ea taken out yet at that moment? Escpacially if it's still "locked" in the special vault that he needs the key for... Gil takes her more seriously than he ever does Shirou, he'll obvs pull out Ea in time(excluding Avalon which he didn't know was OP). |
The sun is a deadly laser |
mira-nyan said: Grey-Zone said: Couldn't she do the same against Gilgamesh if he hasn't Ea taken out yet at that moment? Escpacially if it's still "locked" in the special vault that he needs the key for... Gil takes her more seriously than he ever does Shirou, he'll obvs pull out Ea in time(excluding Avalon which he didn't know was OP). No. If the strategy you mentioned works against UBW, it would also work against GoB. Gil wouldn't have enough time if it's still "locked" in the vault. |
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| He actually still manages to fight her on even ground despite the effects. |
Grey-Zone said: mira-nyan said: Gil takes her more seriously than he ever does Shirou, he'll obvs pull out Ea in time(excluding Avalon which he didn't know was OP). No. If the strategy you mentioned works against UBW, it would also work against GoB. Gil wouldn't have enough time if it's still "locked" in the vault. Like I said, Gil takes her more seriously. Meaning use Ea at the start or closer to the middle. Which, btw, Saber DOES NOT know about. You're keeping in mind the UBW and GoB factor, but are forgetting the person factor. |
The sun is a deadly laser |
SaintEmiya said: laidellent said: Saber,Lancer,Berserker would survive. How could saber survive that many swords flying at her from all directions? I swear she can't even face a great GOB spam. And we have JUST seen that UBW > GOB. Before ubw: She kill him During ubw's incantation: She kill him, if he do Rho Ais so Excalibur and he is dead. During ubw: Excalibur, The end. Or defense mode, ubw don't last forever. After ubw: She kill him. |
mira-nyan said: SaintEmiya said: 1) She can blast those swords but only in one direction. Never seen her do a 360 IA (to my knowledge). 2) And I don't think her battle armour has that high resistance... and the ranks shouldn't be an issue considering that Archer managed to take 6 of Berserker's lives. Edit: Her resistance surely can't be that high as shown by Sparks Liner High. And Archer does have A rank weaponry (unless he used like, 6 broken phantasms in quick sucsession vs Berserker, but considering he had a damaged core I doubt he had the mana for that as he couldn't deploy UBW either), and they wouldn't have any cost in UBW so that's not really an issue. 1) It doesn't matter. She just needs IA + Prana burst + Excalibur to win in one go. 2)Saber's special skills were downgraded by the grail. Including her special armour. Also, Herk isn't Saber. Even as what would be considered a 'berserk' version of her, Saber still held her sanity. Which means she's far more flexible(in thoughts) than Berserker. But how is she gonna do IA 360 we never see this. And how is she gonna charge up excalibur with swords that go faster than GOB coming at her? Grey-Zone has already said how it won't work due to her vs GOB. |
Guilek said: SaintEmiya said: How could saber survive that many swords flying at her from all directions? I swear she can't even face a great GOB spam. And we have JUST seen that UBW > GOB. Before ubw: She kill him During ubw's incantation: She kill him, if he do Rho Ais so Excalibur and he is dead. During ubw: Excalibur, The end. Or defense mode, ubw don't last forever. After ubw: She kill him. Also, according to All round TM, deployment of Excalibur in an RM can make it collapse. :^) |
The sun is a deadly laser |
mira-nyan said: Grey-Zone said: No. If the strategy you mentioned works against UBW, it would also work against GoB. Gil wouldn't have enough time if it's still "locked" in the vault. Like I said, Gil takes her more seriously. Meaning use Ea at the start or closer to the middle. Which, btw, Saber DOES NOT know about. You're keeping in mind the UBW and GoB factor, but are forgetting the person factor. "IA + Prana burst + Excalibur" This means "IA+Prana Burst+ beamu" to me and that is faster than Gil pulling out Ea with the key. So if it's still locked, then going by what you suggested, he would never manage to take out Ea in time. Saber doesn't know about Ea? Well yea and she never would, because Gil would be dead and never have the opportunity to show it off to her. |
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mira-nyan said: Guilek said: Before ubw: She kill him During ubw's incantation: She kill him, if he do Rho Ais so Excalibur and he is dead. During ubw: Excalibur, The end. Or defense mode, ubw don't last forever. After ubw: She kill him. Also, according to All round TM, deployment of Excalibur in an RM can make it collapse. :^) Are you serious? Can you source me this because if that's true then I will rapidly lose faith in TM and whether they can actually stay loyal to their own works. There's no need to regularly buff a character in a series where it is amazing that most of the battles are won based on the context of the setting and tactics rather than power levels. |
| UBW started to collapse in Shirou vs Gil because of Excalibur. |
Insertanamehere said: UBW started to collapse in Shirou vs Gil because of Excalibur. I have read that scene so many times, how have I missed this :/. Well nevermind then, sigh. But if that's the case then what happened to UBW deployment in the church? Did Excalibur break it then as well? |
SaintEmiya said: mira-nyan said: Also, according to All round TM, deployment of Excalibur in an RM can make it collapse. :^) Are you serious? Can you source me this because if that's true then I will rapidly lose faith in TM and whether they can actually stay loyal to their own works. There's no need to regularly buff a character in a series where it is amazing that most of the battles are won based on the context of the setting and tactics rather than power levels. This one actually has sense, and I doubt it's only linked to Excalibur. Any large burst of mana inside any Reality Marble can at least destabilize the Reality Marble; Excalibur is commonly used as an example because it functions like a mana cannon. Medea could also do it with large enough spell, for example. |
astroprogs said: If HF ended up being a single movie, what would it need to do so it can get a high score from all of you? Not air. |
SaintEmiya said: mira-nyan said: 1) It doesn't matter. She just needs IA + Prana burst + Excalibur to win in one go. 2)Saber's special skills were downgraded by the grail. Including her special armour. Also, Herk isn't Saber. Even as what would be considered a 'berserk' version of her, Saber still held her sanity. Which means she's far more flexible(in thoughts) than Berserker. But how is she gonna do IA 360 we never see this. And how is she gonna charge up excalibur with swords that go faster than GOB coming at her? Grey-Zone has already said how it won't work due to her vs GOB. And we haven't heard her say she can't do it, either. Btw, Excalibur is the fastest NP to charge up. And stop comparing the fight with Gil to a fight with Shirou/Archer. It doesn't matter how fast they NPs are. Unless you've forgotten that she's been able to escape a skill rivaling 2nd True Magic twice? |
The sun is a deadly laser |
mira-nyan said: SaintEmiya said: But how is she gonna do IA 360 we never see this. And how is she gonna charge up excalibur with swords that go faster than GOB coming at her? Grey-Zone has already said how it won't work due to her vs GOB. And we haven't heard her say she can't do it, either. Btw, Excalibur is the fastest NP to charge up. And stop comparing the fight with Gil to a fight with Shirou/Archer. It doesn't matter how fast they NPs are. Unless you've forgotten that she's been able to escape a skill rivaling 2nd True Magic twice? We can't make up feats that have never been seen. If she has never shown she could do 360 IA then we must assume she can't. And I'm comparing the fight because GOB and UBW are basically the same tactically in sword spam, just UBW is faster. Therefore it's reasonable to assume that if she can't defeat GOB sword spam then she can't defeat UBW sword spam. It's not that difficult to draw a comparison. Anyway if just having excalibur in UBW causes it to break then there's no point continuing this conversation >.>. |
SaintEmiya said: Anyway if just having excalibur in UBW causes it to break then there's no point continuing this conversation >.>. Nah, what mira meant was by "deployment" is Saber firing Excaliblast. Which I explained why can collapse UBW in last post. ;) |
astroprogs said: If HF ended up being a single movie, what would it need to do so it can get a high score from all of you? Not air. |
Grey-Zone said: "IA + Prana burst + Excalibur" This means "IA+Prana Burst+ beamu" to me and that is faster than Gil pulling out Ea with the key. So if it's still locked, then going by what you suggested, he would never manage to take out Ea in time. Saber doesn't know about Ea? Well yea and she never would, because Gil would be dead and never have the opportunity to show it off to her. You know what? Nvm this, it DID work against Gil(in Fate). But, instead of IA, she used Avalon. Case solved. =3 Was planning on answering the RM thing, but, eh, sniped. |
The sun is a deadly laser |
SaintEmiya said: astroprogs said: I think Rider can survive UBW as well. How quickly can she utilise/activate bellerophon? Insertanamehere said: He actually still manages to fight her on even ground despite the effects. Well, Shirou got frozen in place in both Fate and HF. |
astroprogsJun 21, 2015 8:40 AM
SaintEmiya said: We can't make up feats that have never been seen. If she has never shown she could do 360 IA then we must assume she can't. And I'm comparing the fight because GOB and UBW are basically the same tactically in sword spam, just UBW is faster. Therefore it's reasonable to assume that if she can't defeat GOB sword spam then she can't defeat UBW sword spam. It's not that difficult to draw a comparison. Anyway if just having excalibur in UBW causes it to break then there's no point continuing this conversation >.>. Gil's weapons are >Stronger Archer's weapons are >Faster. Saber dodged TG twice. Ofc, with help. But I can safely say that Archer's weapons are definitely not as fast at TG. Meaning she can dodge them. Plus, the problem against Gil wasn't speed, it was strength. And she had to guard Shirou at the same time. So idk why you're bringing speed up like it's an actual threat. ._. |
The sun is a deadly laser |
mira-nyan said: Gil's weapons are >Stronger Archer's weapons are >Faster. Saber dodged TG twice. Ofc, with help. But I can safely say that Archer's weapons are definitely not as fast at TG. Meaning she can dodge them. Plus, the problem against Gil wasn't speed, it was strength. And she had to guard Shirou at the same time. So idk why you're bringing speed up like it's an actual threat. ._. What about F/Z where Gil wrecked Saber by shooting a few weapons one by one? |
Grey-ZoneJun 21, 2015 8:59 AM
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| You mean after |
Grey-Zone said: mira-nyan said: Gil's weapons are >Stronger Archer's weapons are >Faster. Saber dodged TG twice. Ofc, with help. But I can safely say that Archer's weapons are definitely not as fast at TG. Meaning she can dodge them. Plus, the problem against Gil wasn't speed, it was strength. And she had to guard Shirou at the same time. So idk why you're bringing speed up like it's an actual threat. ._. What about F/Z where Gil wrecked Saber by shooting a few weapons one by one? She fought Berseker just before so she wasn't in good shape then she launch excalibur at Gil with his master command. |
Grey-Zone said: mira-nyan said: Gil's weapons are >Stronger Archer's weapons are >Faster. Saber dodged TG twice. Ofc, with help. But I can safely say that Archer's weapons are definitely not as fast at TG. Meaning she can dodge them. Plus, the problem against Gil wasn't speed, it was strength. And she had to guard Shirou at the same time. So idk why you're bringing speed up like it's an actual threat. ._. What about F/Z where Gil wrecked Saber by shooting a few weapons one by one? Saber was badly destroyed both physically and mentally by her final encounter with Zero!Berserker and was in no mood or shape to fight. |
| Magical energy is EVERYTHING to Saber. If Saber has enough magical energy to use Excalibur, then she also has enough magical energy to block a few damn random weapons that Gil throws at her... |
|
Moekou said: Saber was badly destroyed both physically and mentally by her final encounter with Zero!Berserker and was in no mood or shape to fight. So the Saber vs Shirou argument is basically the same as talking about Shirou vs 100% Gilgamesh, as we completely disregard the "circumstances variable". |
|
Grey-Zone said: Moekou said: Saber was badly destroyed both physically and mentally by her final encounter with Zero!Berserker and was in no mood or shape to fight. So the Saber vs Shirou argument is basically the same as talking about Shirou vs 100% Gilgamesh, as we completely disregard the "circumstances variable". Yeah if not, we will be saying they won't fight they are friends or they are going to be easy on each other. |
Grey-Zone said: Magical energy is EVERYTHING to Saber. If Saber has enough magical energy to use Excalibur, then she also has enough magical energy to block a few damn random weapons that Gil throws at her... She disappeared right after, tho. And when she's on the verge of becoming Alter, in no way is she in the right position to fight. She also blocked far more swords when nerfed in Fate route, so ehh. Vn Canon > FZ Canon. |
The sun is a deadly laser |
mira-nyan said: She disappeared right after, tho. And when she's on the verge of becoming Alter, in no way is she in the right position to fight. She also blocked far more swords when nerfed in Fate route, so ehh. Vn Canon > FZ Canon. And yet it was still the same amount of magical energy she used in UBW for exactly the same thing, although moments earlier she could even still use a mini beam against Gil. 'dem inconsistent magical energy levels. It seems as if Saber lost against Gil because the plot demanded it in F/Z. Well you can make the argument that her Excalibur in the end of ufoUBW was a stronger version, but still... |
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| Also why are you talking about Ea being locked away when the key doesn't actually matter to begin with? |
Grey-Zone said: mira-nyan said: She disappeared right after, tho. And when she's on the verge of becoming Alter, in no way is she in the right position to fight. She also blocked far more swords when nerfed in Fate route, so ehh. Vn Canon > FZ Canon. And yet it was still the same amount of magical energy she used in UBW for exactly the same thing, although moments earlier she could even still use a mini beam against Gil. 'dem inconsistent magical energy levels. It seems as if Saber lost against Gil because the plot demanded it in F/Z. Well you can make the argument that her Excalibur in the end of ufoUBW was a stronger version, but still... It obviously was. Both Kerry and Rin wasted their respective mana in doing their tasks But Rin > Kerry. |
The sun is a deadly laser |
Insertanamehere said: Also why are you talking about Ea being locked away when the key doesn't actually matter to begin with? I always assumed that that strange sequence was there because Gil put Ea into a "special locked vault" or something. Notice how he didn't do it the time when he fought against Shirou inside the RM, probably because he already put it into the "normal vault" after having used it against Grailhand-kun, so that he could be ready to use it against Saber if necessary. That's the impression I got from the ufoanimes without refering to any WoG or CMs. |
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Grey-Zone said: Insertanamehere said: Also why are you talking about Ea being locked away when the key doesn't actually matter to begin with? That's the impression I got from the ufoanimes without refering to any WoG or CMs. It's not in the VN when he pulls out Ea. I don't recall if it was in the FZ LN but in any case he clearly does not need it. In Strange Fake he even says it's actually useless and just for show. |
Insertanamehere said: It's not in the VN when he pulls out Ea. I don't recall if it was in the FZ LN but in any case he clearly does not need it. In Strange Fake he even says it's actually useless and just for show. That's why I said it's an ufo thing. |
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| Why did Gil never put on his armor? |
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ziggy_Z said: Because he's Gil.Why did Gil never put on his armor? |
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ziggy_Z said: Why did Gil never put on his armor? He don't wanna. UBW Gil is pretty much the most IDGAF version of Gil. :/ |
The sun is a deadly laser |
| Wasn't his armor destroyed when it came into contact with the grail at the end of F/Z? I never understood why his armor was supposedly intact. I mean I get the whole "getting a body" thing, but if the armor was still fine, why didn't Gil re-equip it in the end of F/Z instead of running around naked? |
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| the armor isn't destroyed in FZ because it appears in fate route |
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| maybe he simply doesn't want to wear it because well mongrels are mongrels |
|
| Question. Why the animations of when Grail Blob was destroyed reminds me of how Angels died in Evangelion? Is this a foreshadowing or just a Miura (with Nasu approval) thing? P.S: Guys, please post this to UBW S2 Q&A. You know you want it. |
| nono that wasn't an angel that was a fiber from Kill la Kill, Excalibur is a golden version of the scissor blade |
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| is there going to be a 6th grail war ? isnt all that stuff with the grail being corrupted still unresolved ? what happened to gilg after he got black holed did he go back to his spirit form or back in time(like saber) or did something worse happen? Will archer continue existing or did he disappear since shiro is gonna take not his path ? edit: 6th instead of 5th |
Pazuzu95Jun 21, 2015 11:04 AM
| This was the 5th. His incarnation was erased and this copy of him destroyed, his self on the throne remains unaffected. Archer will always be a Counter-Guardian. |
| Actually, all of the anime-only questions would be answered if they simply read the VN beforehand. But nooo, excuses after excuses. |
Grey-Zone said: He barely had mana at the end of F/Z iirc. Think of how Saber couldn't get her armor on.Wasn't his armor destroyed when it came into contact with the grail at the end of F/Z? I never understood why his armor was supposedly intact. I mean I get the whole "getting a body" thing, but if the armor was still fine, why didn't Gil re-equip it in the end of F/Z instead of running around naked? Gil never wears his armor in F/SN except when he faces Saber. The rest are, to him, unworthy mongrels who can't so much as scratch him. |
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Botato said: Grey-Zone said: He barely had mana at the end of F/Z iirc. Think of how Saber couldn't get her armor on.Wasn't his armor destroyed when it came into contact with the grail at the end of F/Z? I never understood why his armor was supposedly intact. I mean I get the whole "getting a body" thing, but if the armor was still fine, why didn't Gil re-equip it in the end of F/Z instead of running around naked? Gil never wears his armor in F/SN except when he faces Saber. The rest are, to him, unworthy mongrels who can't so much as scratch him. >Implying Fate Saber can scratch him. :^) |
The sun is a deadly laser |
| So I finally got a PSP for God Eater among other things. Is Fate/Extra any good? What is it even about? |
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