| Oh, maybe I should mention the obvious fact, that the anime and the VN aren't the same. Perhaps the crest isn't entirely lost in the anime. I mean, Archer also somehow can come up with the mana to set up UBW for the fight against Shirou and Berserker died twice in episode 3. It's possible. |
CapsuleCoreJun 10, 2015 3:57 AM
CapsuleCore said: Idk after reading it, I can only say that's an iffy way of wording it. I'm not buying it, especially since the only thing I see that was lost was "the magic that makes up the crest" it says nothing about the circuits, research ect. iirc Magic crests are a collection of circuits passed down, not just a magic. Plus when she says "it's not really a part of me the way my circuits are" the wording makes it seem that Tohsaka can barely access it or can't use it properly or something.Kotonoha was the one that translated the RN scene. I'll take her word for it, that Rin means the complete crest is lost and not just a fragment like in that other case. Eeh I don't really know, it's too confusing. |
KamiCityJun 10, 2015 4:06 AM
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mira-nyan said: Like I said >Doesn't have a Magic crest. It doesn't matter the methods she uses in battle; it'll be strange, to the MA. for a magus without a magic crest to be able to do that. But I thought Tohsaka's fighting style using gem (i.e. not really in need for a magic crest in battle) was one of the most common knowledge about the Tohsaka family, aside from having a Zel disciple as the founder. |
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KamiCity said: CapsuleCore said: Idk after reading it, I can only say that's an iffy way of wording it. I'm not buying it, especially since the only thing I see that was lost was "the magic that makes up the crest" it says nothing about the circuits, research ect. iirc Magic crests are a collection of circuits passed down, not just a magic. Plus when she says "it's not really a part of me the way my circuits are" the wording makes it seem that Tohsaka can barely access it or can't use it properly or something.Kotonoha was the one that translated the RN scene. I'll take her word for it, that Rin means the complete crest is lost and not just a fragment like in that other case. Eeh I don't really know, it's too confusing. Uh, how to say this, i'm not sure you know what you're talking about. |
KamiCity said: mira-nyan said: They're not saying it breaks the rules, they're just butthurt that Rin would rather give up her family's knowledge than just do the deed. They said it breaks the rules of the universe before though, Harpe in rereads was saying something like that and people on here also said it also. Plus wasn't it only part of the crest? Why is it any different in one route and than in the other? I mean besides doing the deed in the original, there is nothing that breaks canon as far as I know. For the quadrillionth time, ignoring "blah blah perv blah blah salt I'm so superior" from most of the people that don't see this. It's not about in universe rules (for me at least) or wanking over some hentai or whatever. It's about character realism. |
WrongPriest said: reduces her pool of spells she can use to spells she learns in her lifetime. what Grey-Zone said: But I thought Tohsaka's fighting style using gem (i.e. not really in need for a magic crest in battle) was one of the most common knowledge about the Tohsaka family, aside from having a Zel disciple as the founder. Every time you see her using a Gandr, she's using her crest. |
Insertanamehere said: Every time you see her using a Gandr, she's using her crest. Yes, but Gandr =/= Gems I mean Gandr was only good an scaring of Shirou a bit and "testing" Kuzuki. It's not like that spell actually helped her otherwise. For threatening to kill Shinji after Illya's death she could also use something else like gems. |
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| Yes, and therefore her primary fighting method is obviously using her crest and not gems. |
Insertanamehere said: Yes, and therefore her primary fighting method is obviously using her crest and not gems. It's been mostly useless though. |
|
Grey-Zone said: Insertanamehere said: Every time you see her using a Gandr, she's using her crest. Yes, but Gandr =/= Gems I mean Gandr was only good an scaring of Shirou a bit and "testing" Kuzuki. It's not like that spell actually helped her otherwise. For threatening to kill Shinji after Illya's death she could also use something else like gems. Well, we have to remember how expensive gems are, even in DEEN they emphasised how hard it is to maintain continuous usage of gems for financial reasons as well. Gandr is clearly more efficient. |
Grey-Zone said: Insertanamehere said: Yes, and therefore her primary fighting method is obviously using her crest and not gems. It's been mostly useless though. Yeah see it's not going to do much against servants now is it. But considering it's like a machine gun to a normal person... And that's only one of dozens or even hundreds of spells stored in the crest. |
Insertanamehere said: Uh, how to say this, i'm not sure you know what you're talking about. Then inform me. Magic that makes up the crest vs the spells recorded inside the crest. Can mean completely different things. Which is why I said the wording in the pics Core put up is iffy. Especially with the whole "using the magic as a reciever" line. If you mean the magic circuit thing SaintEmiya said: Then my question doesn't concern you. Idc about that, I asked why SOME PEOPLE say it breaks the rules of the universe. If you are not one of those people, then this question has nothing to do with you. I would have preferred fade to black 2, that doesn't change what I asked.For the quadrillionth time, ignoring "blah blah perv blah blah salt I'm so superior" from most of the people that don't see this. It's not about in universe rules (for me at least) or wanking over some hentai or whatever. It's about character realism. |
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| Well, you can always ask Kotonoha on BL. She seems pretty certain that it was always the whole crest. As for Magic Crests and what they are, Rin gives a very good explanation in Fate: |
| Speaking of which, she should still have a chance to get the gemsword done, right? |
|
CapsuleCore said: Well, you can always ask Kotonoha on BL. She seems pretty certain that it was always the whole crest. As for Magic Crests and what they are, Rin gives a very good explanation in Fate: Hmm I forgot about that, damn I have to go reread the fate route. Either way, my initial question was answered or avoided anyway. Which was whether it broke universe rules, which it did not, other than ignoring the pain part or something. |
KamiCityJun 10, 2015 4:39 AM
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KamiCity said: Insertanamehere said: Uh, how to say this, i'm not sure you know what you're talking about. Then inform me. Magic that makes up the crest vs the spells recorded inside the crest. Can mean completely different things. Which is why I said the wording in the pics Core put up is iffy. Especially with the whole "using the magic as a reciever" line. If you mean the magic circuit thing SaintEmiya said: Then my question doesn't concern you. Idc about that, I asked why SOME PEOPLE say it breaks the rules of the universe. If you are not one of those people, then this question has nothing to do with you. I would have preferred fade to black 2, that doesn't change what I asked.For the quadrillionth time, ignoring "blah blah perv blah blah salt I'm so superior" from most of the people that don't see this. It's not about in universe rules (for me at least) or wanking over some hentai or whatever. It's about character realism. Well all I see is "those people", kinda seems to encompass everyone. The only person I've seen arguing about universe rules is CookingPriest, but he argues about everything. |
| Do not copy unsourced information from the wiki. Fate/complete material III: World Material - Theory of Magic - Magecraft: Magus, p.041 Magic crest The product of stamping the anchored mystery that a magus had spent his entire life building up. Can be said to be mystical inheritance that defines the magus line as a magus line. While the inheritor is young, it is necessary to implant this little at a time while at the same time having the body adjust to the magic crest by medicine and rituals. The magic association also has technology for extracting just the magic crest from the body and storing it. The Tohsaka can use it fine. Any respectable magus family can use their crest fine. Magic that makes up the crest becoming useless means the crest becoming useless. It's really simple. |
SaintEmiya said: Well all I see is "those people", kinda seems to encompass everyone. The only person I've seen arguing about universe rules is CookingPriest, but he argues about everything. "Why do people keep saying that transplanting part of the magic crest breaks the rules of the universe" "They said it breaks the rules of the universe before though, Harpe in rereads was saying something like that and people on here also said it also. " Except I made it perfectly clear what people I was talking about, you even quoted me in one of those. Never did I generalize, i was talking about a specific thing. |
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KamiCity said: SaintEmiya said: Well all I see is "those people", kinda seems to encompass everyone. The only person I've seen arguing about universe rules is CookingPriest, but he argues about everything. "Why do people keep saying that transplanting part of the magic crest breaks the rules of the universe" "They said it breaks the rules of the universe before though, Harpe in rereads was saying something like that and people on here also said it also. " Except I made it perfectly clear what people I was talking about, you even quoted me in one of those. Never did I generalize, i was talking about a specific thing. I'm not gonna be dragged into an argument about interpreting one of your forum posts xD. So okeydokey, you're right. |
| Actually, I'm pretty certain someone already asked the thing about UBW Rin's Magic Crest in the UBW Q&A's, and I agree that it was far too ambiguous for us (usual Kinoko). Hopefully it will get answered. |
| And what exactly do you think they're going to ask? |
ProphecyPriest said: Actually, I'm pretty certain someone already asked the thing about UBW Rin's Magic Crest in the UBW Q&A's, and I agree that it was far too ambiguous for us (usual Kinoko). Hopefully it will get answered. I am pretty sure that answer will always be "somethingsomething this is an AU so lol" like before. |
 |
| What exactly do we know about the events of the second and third holy grail wars, and what are the chances we'll ever get some kind of Fate/Negative or whatever? The first was decently explained enough in the original VN, but it might make a nice short story as well. And hints about the third war keep getting dropped everywhere, but we don't really know the details. Is there any possibility we'll ever have something like that? |
KezmiJun 10, 2015 2:09 PM
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| The first was never really explained. Everyone died in the second. |
Wat Where was this revealed |
| Nevermind just checked, thats from theorys. |
| Got me excited for nothing,smh |
| Well if you're interested in seeing the Knights of the Round Table, GoA does a good job with them. |
Kezone said: mmmmdont want the 3rd war to get "prometheused"What exactly do we know about the events of the second and third holy grail wars, and what are the chances we'll ever get some kind of Fate/Negative or whatever? The first was decently explained enough in the original VN, but it might make a nice short story as well. And hints about the third war keep getting dropped everywhere, but we don't really know the details. Is there any possibility we'll ever have something like that? |
Insertanamehere said: Well if you're interested in seeing the Knights of the Round Table, GoA does a good job with them. I know and Kay's part was great. Which is why i want to see more of him.Whether it's him doing his own thing in some HGW/adventure or him interacting with Saber,i'd be fine either way. |
DamnThatsTheSpotJun 10, 2015 3:08 PM
Forgetfulness said: it happened chronologically before therefore it must bee seen first!! you have to watch it first just so you can have a deeper understanding of fate/zero.Kezone said: That would sound pretty cool.What exactly do we know about the events of the second and third holy grail wars, and what are the chances we'll ever get some kind of Fate/Negative or whatever? The first was decently explained enough in the original VN, but it might make a nice short story as well. And hints about the third war keep getting dropped everywhere, but we don't really know the details. Is there any possibility we'll ever have something like that? Cept that would probably confuse the stupider of the AO-viewers even more about watching order lmao |
Forgetfulness said: Kezone said: That would sound pretty cool.What exactly do we know about the events of the second and third holy grail wars, and what are the chances we'll ever get some kind of Fate/Negative or whatever? The first was decently explained enough in the original VN, but it might make a nice short story as well. And hints about the third war keep getting dropped everywhere, but we don't really know the details. Is there any possibility we'll ever have something like that? Cept that would probably confuse the stupider of the AO-viewers even more about watching order lmao Now I want it to happen just to see CookingPriest screaming at the heavens... well, that's just assuming it gets written then adapted at all. What format would it be? LN like Zero? Who would be the protagonist? |
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Kezone said: Who would be the protagonist? Zouken. |
| Why would he be the protagonist of the third? He was already an old fossil by then. |
astroprogs said: Kezone said: Who would be the protagonist? Zouken. For the first Grail War, Fate/Beginning (to fully confuse aos), obviously. We need a strong ruthless mage with a cute but tragic love interest. He'd be perfect. edit: Can't you hear the AOs crying out already: Why can't Kerry be more like Zouken? We need a real hardcore protagonist again-- Fate was just gone downhill over time! |
KezmiJun 10, 2015 3:39 PM
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| Einzbern Master as protagonist. It's gonna be like A Game of Thrones from A Song of Ice and Fire. |
Insertanamehere said: Why would he be the protagonist of the third? He was already an old fossil by then. Oh, i thought we were talking about the first. My bad. Why would the third be relevant, though? The only important character will die in the first chapter or so. |
astroprogs said: Because Nazis appear in the Third. And Edelfelts who look like Rin and Sakura. It's a guaranteed success.Insertanamehere said: Why would he be the protagonist of the third? He was already an old fossil by then. Oh, i thought we were talking about the first. My bad. Why would the third be relevant, though? The only important character will die in the first chapter or so. |
Kezone said: astroprogs said: Zouken. For the first Grail War, Fate/Beginning (to fully confuse aos), obviously. We need a strong ruthless mage with a cute but tragic love interest. He'd be perfect. Yup, it'd be great seeing his relationship with Justeaze. Not sure if anyone would want to read/watch anything with him as the protagonist, though. Kezone said: edit: Can't you hear the AOs crying out already: Why can't Kerry be more like Zouken? We need a real hardcore protagonist again-- Fate was just gone downhill over time! Lol, yeah. A true anti-hero if I'd ever seen one. Kerry? Wussing out in the last second isn't what real edge lords do. Zouken? Now that's some dedication. |
astroprogsJun 10, 2015 3:46 PM
CapsuleCore said: astroprogs said: Because Nazis appear in the Third. And Edelfelts who look like Rin and Sakura. It's a guaranteed success.Oh, i thought we were talking about the first. My bad. Why would the third be relevant, though? The only important character will die in the first chapter or so. Also we get to laugh at Risei throughout, right? Make him be the most upstanding nicest guy ever, and look a ton like Kirei. It'll be fun. And have Angra Mainyu come back at the end and torment everyone still alive. Perfect greek tragedy. |
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astroprogs said: Kezone said: For the first Grail War, Fate/Beginning (to fully confuse aos), obviously. We need a strong ruthless mage with a cute but tragic love interest. He'd be perfect. edit: Can't you hear the AOs crying out already: Why can't Kerry be more like Zouken? We need a real hardcore protagonist again-- Fate was just gone downhill over time! Yup, it'd be great seeing his relationship with Justeaze. Not sure if anyone would want to read/watch anything with him as the protagonist, though. |
CapsuleCore said: astroprogs said: Because Nazis appear in the Third. And Edelfelts who look like Rin and Sakura. It's a guaranteed success.Oh, i thought we were talking about the first. My bad. Why would the third be relevant, though? The only important character will die in the first chapter or so. Wasnt that just Avenger filling in gaps using the Fuyuki denizens? |
Insertanamehere said: Next time I'll mention that I was making fun of that fact.CapsuleCore said: Because Nazis appear in the Third. And Edelfelts who look like Rin and Sakura. It's a guaranteed success. Wasnt that just Avenger filling in gaps using the Fuyuki denizens? |
CapsuleCore said: astroprogs said: Yup, it'd be great seeing his relationship with Justeaze. Not sure if anyone would want to read/watch anything with him as the protagonist, though. |
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Kezone said: astroprogs said: Zouken. For the first Grail War, Fate/Beginning (to fully confuse aos), obviously. We need a strong ruthless mage with a cute but tragic love interest. He'd be perfect. edit: Can't you hear the AOs crying out already: Why can't Kerry be more like Zouken? We need a real hardcore protagonist again-- Fate was just gone downhill over time! Fate/Prototype alone would confuse the hell out of AO's. Especially adapting Fragments as a prequel then the actual F/P, Just image the confusion when not only is Saber a male again, but the entire war is completely different. No one would be able to explain where in the timeline it even fits, or if it's even the same grail, AU, or even going on at the same time. |
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CapsuleCore said: They should make him look exactly like Shirou, be really tall and handsome, and have him want to be a "seigi no mikata" for some extra irony, and it'd be consistent with his backstory. |
| Makiri is basically Shirou but more normal (as in magi normal) and better. With Shinji's look nonetheless. And Justicia is basically Irisviel without the lovey-dovey thing. It'd be great. |
ProphecyPriest said: Makiri is basically Shirou but more normal (as in magi normal) and better. With Shinji's look nonetheless. And Justicia is basically Irisviel without the lovey-dovey thing. It'd be great. Oh, so that whole affair was one sided from Zouken's POV? How kawaii of him. |
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