Mamster-P said: Many people don't care about the minor details or what could be considered flaws. I'm not referring to Kirito being OP, some people like that in a character, but everything from the way exposition is handled, to ass pulls and plot holes. Most people who like the show don't care about those things. GO into the ERASED episode discussion and you'll see people hating on it, trying to come up with any and every possible criticism of the show alongside its' fans who don't seem to be bothered by what others perceive flaws. Rarely, if ever, will you see a fan saying they like that there's a plot hole, and you yourself have said you don't feel the need to nitpick when confronted by flaws in certain shows. So the argument comes down to "If you don't care, then fixing the problems for the people that do shouldn't bother you." an argument which is understandable to me to an extent, but stories are naturally flawed, creators aren't perfect and their vision of a masterpiece might be drastically different than somebody else's. I think it's fair to criticize, especially concerning some of the more blatant flaws, but it's wrong to assume their is a universal standard around which art can be judged, the standard is the combined opinions of the individuals for which the shows are made. So it would be very unfair to criticize an ecchi centric show such as HxH when it's target audience are those who value that kind of content.thats like saying people who like SAO are the exception because you're always seeing people shit talk it. just because the people who want to complain are the most vocal doesn't mean theres more of them On the topic of tone, I'd have to agree with Wannabiteme. This is not an issue restricted to sexual fan service, and there are relatively few instances where it's bothered me, but to name one, Akame ga Kill where we get a boobs in MC-kun's face scene right after what is presented as the emotional deaths of his friends. Regardless of how you personally feel this effects the tone, there are plenty of lighthearted moments, even in the few episodes of the show I watched, where that type of scene would have been more fitting and enjoyable. Win-win, we get tone and tits. |
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merryfistmas said: On the topic of tone, I'd have to agree with Wannabiteme. This is not an issue restricted to sexual fan service, and there are relatively few instances where it's bothered me, but to name one, Akame ga Kill where we get a boobs in MC-kun's face scene right after what is presented as the emotional deaths of his friends. Regardless of how you personally feel this effects the tone, there are plenty of lighthearted moments, even in the few episodes of the show I watched, where that type of scene would have been more fitting and enjoyable. Win-win, we get tone and tits. im sorry, but to me Japan's love of doing things that may make us westerners say WTF or WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT? is one of the main things that makes anime unique and is therefore one of my favorite parts of anime. its things like that why anime is so appealing to people.... THEY DON'T GIVE A SHIT... Japans resistance to people who whine about anime is one of the biggest reasons why people like me keep coming back to it Japan gives no fucks to show that they love tits and ass and i highly respect that, not just as an open pervert, but as someone who has respect for those who do what they want despite people who constantly complain (obviously when it comes to real world issues that can be bad, but anime is not a real world issue) |
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| If it's subtle, as in character design, dialogue, and some naughty shots every now and then, I don't have an issue with it. That's pretty enjoyable. I hate anime that shove fanservice down your throat when it's trying to tell a compelling story. I don't mind anime that are focused around fan service when I'm in the mood either, like Bikini Warriors or the To Love Ru series. I have mixed opinions. |
Mamster-P said: You speak as though the anime industry trudging on in the face of MALs incessant criticism. It's far more likely they aren't even aware of our opinions, and this cultural difference you love so much has lead to the failure of highly regarded and original (both in the literal sense of not being based on a source material and in terms of being different) shows such as Samurai Champloo, Redline and Ergo Proxy, so it's not all sunshine and roses, it stifles creativity as well, though I'm sure the same could be said of any industry that has an audience to answer to.merryfistmas said: On the topic of tone, I'd have to agree with Wannabiteme. This is not an issue restricted to sexual fan service, and there are relatively few instances where it's bothered me, but to name one, Akame ga Kill where we get a boobs in MC-kun's face scene right after what is presented as the emotional deaths of his friends. Regardless of how you personally feel this effects the tone, there are plenty of lighthearted moments, even in the few episodes of the show I watched, where that type of scene would have been more fitting and enjoyable. Win-win, we get tone and tits. im sorry, but to me Japan's love of doing things that may make us westerners say WTF or WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT? is one of the main things that makes anime unique and is therefore one of my favorite parts of anime. its things like that why anime is so appealing to people.... THEY DON'T GIVE A SHIT... Japans resistance to people who whine about anime is one of the biggest reasons why people like me keep coming back to it Japan gives no fucks to show that they love tits and ass and i highly respect that, not just as an open pervert, but as someone who has respect for those who do what they want despite people who constantly complain (obviously when it comes to real world issues that can be bad, but anime is not a real world issue) |
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merryfistmas said: You speak as though the anime industry trudging on in the face of MALs incessant criticism. It's far more likely they aren't even aware of our opinions, and this cultural difference you love so much has lead to the failure of highly regarded and original (both in the literal sense of not being based on a source material and in terms of being different) shows such as Samurai Champloo, Redline and Ergo Proxy, so it's not all sunshine and roses, it stifles creativity as well, though I'm sure the same could be said of any industry that has an audience to answer to. i highly doubt they're not at all aware of our criticisms, i mean, many of them have social media, as well as some of the artists who's styles are used for anime, and im sure they probably get the odd email from butthurt watchers. not only that, theres enough foreigners in japan that im sure theyve heard many of the things we say on these sites plus theres anime that clearly are trying to target a more western audience, yet they still do things that are unique to anime. i mean, i just can't see them not knowing at all that many westerners think these things. look at what the feminist SJW's tried to do to anime/hentai/manga yet japan said: FUCK YOU. there was even a Fox News segment where they mentioned the sexualization of girls in anime and the creator of Negima! was interviewed. so its not like they "don't know" many westerners are offended by it, which is why im happy to know that even if they do, it doesn't stop them from doing these things not exactly sure what you mean about the shows failing due to cultural difference |
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Mamster-P said: Japanese people did not like these shows because they contained themes or styles that were not as well liked or relevant to Japanese culture, especially in the case of Ergo Proxy, where the director knew this beforehand and went ahead with it anyway because it was the project he wanted to create. However, it was well received in the West, especially France, because it's philosophical themes resonated with that audience more.merryfistmas said: You speak as though the anime industry trudging on in the face of MALs incessant criticism. It's far more likely they aren't even aware of our opinions, and this cultural difference you love so much has lead to the failure of highly regarded and original (both in the literal sense of not being based on a source material and in terms of being different) shows such as Samurai Champloo, Redline and Ergo Proxy, so it's not all sunshine and roses, it stifles creativity as well, though I'm sure the same could be said of any industry that has an audience to answer to. i highly doubt they're not at all aware of our criticisms, i mean, many of them have social media, as well as some of the artists who's styles are used for anime, and im sure they probably get the odd email from butthurt watchers. not only that, theres enough foreigners in japan that im sure theyve heard many of the things we say on these sites plus theres anime that clearly are trying to target a more western audience, yet they still do things that are unique to anime. i mean, i just can't see them not knowing at all that many westerners think these things. look at what the feminist SJW's tried to do to anime/hentai/manga yet japan said: FUCK YOU. there was even a Fox News segment where they mentioned the sexualization of girls in anime and the creator of Negima! was interviewed. so its not like they "don't know" many westerners are offended by it, which is why im happy to know that even if they do, it doesn't stop them from doing these things not exactly sure what you mean about the shows failing due to cultural difference |
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merryfistmas said: Japanese people did not like these shows because they contained themes or styles that were not as well liked or relevant to Japanese culture, especially in the case of Ergo Proxy, where the director knew this beforehand and went ahead with it anyway because it was the project he wanted to create. However, it was well received in the West, especially France, because it's philosophical themes resonated with that audience more. well im personally fine with that as i don't see why they should be expected to bow down to our demands when they have the interests of their own country to think about. anime is not a real world issue, so making it only for japanese ppls interests is not going to harm anything and just imagine what would happen to anime if we got a say in it. do you honestly believe it would still feel like anime afterwords? no lolis reduction of moe vast increase in edgy/mature shows much much more violence almost no mix of comedy/serious reduction or removal of sexualization reduction or removal of certain kinds of violence no scenes we feel "don't fit" no "WTF/WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT?" moments no more/or reduction of anime tropes main character ALWAYS gets the girl less representation of female characters more and more action shows less bright colors the list goes on... THE APPEAL WOULD BE ENTIRELY KILLED.... you can't tell me it wouldn't oh and i know Japan has its exreme societal issues... but im sorry, countries like America which are built on things like hatred/discrimination/stereotypes should be one of the LAST places on earth trying to tell other countries how to do anything. and many western values are just too paranoid or strict sorry for this rant, but there was a very racist moment today at work that wasn't even aimed at me, but still pissed me off |
EcchiGodMamsterJul 28, 2016 7:01 PM
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Mamster-P said: America is not the only Western country, and I never said Japan should bow down to our needs, but every country offers different perspective and potential styles I can only think of this as a good thing unless it becomes homogenized, which seems highly unlikely. Australian rock, Swedish metal, rap, these are all accessible outside their countries of origin and still retain a sense of individuality.oh and i know Japan has its exreme societal issues... but im sorry, countries like America which are built on things like hatred/discrimination/stereotypes should be one of the LAST places on earth trying to tell other countries how to do anything. and many western values are just too paranoid or strict sorry for this rant, but there was a very racist moment today at work that wasn't even aimed at me, but still pissed me off Mamster-P said: And you can't tell me things things will happen. You love to go on about how otakus are supporting to industry, do you think that will change? If not, there will still be shows targeted at that demographic. Some of your points are ridiculous, particularly less bright colors, look at Avatar, adventure time, Rick and Morty, all very vibrant shows, though the styles are different.and just imagine what would happen to anime if we got a say in it. do you honestly believe it would still feel like anime afterwords? no lolis reduction of moe vast increase in edgy/mature shows much much more violence almost no mix of comedy/serious reduction or removal of sexualization reduction or removal of certain kinds of violence no scenes we feel "don't fit" no "WTF/WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT?" moments no more/or reduction of anime tropes main character ALWAYS gets the girl less representation of female characters more and more action shows less bright colors the list goes on... THE APPEAL WOULD BE ENTIRELY KILLED.... you can't tell me it wouldn't Which kinds of violence would be reduced? And you say this while at the same time think that more violence and action oriented shows would exist. It doesn't make a lot of sense. "No scenes we feel "don't fit"" There is plenty of shitty western media with poorly timed or delivered comic relief, or any number of other flaws, and I'm sure you know my stance on this, I'm fine with the removal of of gag humor sandwiched by sexualized rape, or torture or any other scenes that "don't fit". "Main character always gets the girl" I'll admit, I dislike AMERICAN romance, but again, America isn't the only Western country, despite what people seem to believe. "no "WTF/WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT?" moments" What do you mean by this? "less representation of female characters" Not if the SJWs you claim to hate so much have anything to say about it, but yes, this is a good point, anime does a much better job at this than most visual mediums. "almost no mix of comedy/serious" Do you mean serious comedy like Jojo or Death Note? Or shows that shoehorn comic relief into inappropriate moments? I love the former, and that is something I don't see often outside of anime, the latter's reduction I'm fine with. loli's moe... can't say I care about loli's, I doubt there will be as many sexualized lolis though, moe would be missed, but this is all assuming you're right and Japan suddenly loses any semblance of it's culture. The things I love about anime are not listed in your post, although I agree anime would suffer overall for losing those. Some I think are more likely to go away, like sexualizated lolis, others are totally ridiculous points. Also, individual creators are not going to suddenly lose their style. Watanabe, Imaishi, Yuasa, they'll still exist. Also, I'm not arguing in favor or globalization, I'm arguing that X thing is shit. EDIT: To be fair, the types of shows that have these ill fitting scenes tend be shows I dislike anyway, so it's not a huge issue. Bad shows aren't bad because of fan service, they're bad for a lot of other reasons. |
merryfistmasJul 28, 2016 8:03 PM
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| @merryfistmas all i did was point out things that i've seen us whiny westerners endlessly say or complain about, and im not saying they will listen... im just saying i hope they never do |
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Mamster-P said: All of that is off topic, there was a thread about globalization a few weeks ago, you should post this there. People complain about everything, the people complaining about moe are not necessarily the same people who complain about shonen or edgy shows, it's not as if the western fan base as a whole hates all of these things specifically. You say most people love ecchi especially the haters who are actually closet fans, so why are you worried about the west changing it? And do you have anything on topic to say or are you just here to complain about the same exact things you complain about in every other thread you post in?@merryfistmas all i did was point out things that i've seen us whiny westerners endlessly say or complain about, and im not saying they will listen... im just saying i hope they never do |
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merryfistmas said: All of that is off topic, there was a thread about globalization a few weeks ago, you should post this there. People complain about everything, the people complaining about moe are not necessarily the same people who complain about shonen or edgy shows, it's not as if the western fan base as a whole hates all of these things specifically. You say most people love ecchi especially the haters who are actually closet fans, so why are you worried about the west changing it? And do you have anything on topic to say or are you just here to complain about the same exact things you complain about in every other thread you post in? its impossible not to go off on a tirade when you see the same complaints over and over and over again... my bad lol don't get me wrong, i know im being overly sensitive much of the time and worry about things that are never gonna happen but it just stems from....... "other stuff" one of which i mentioned before... ill stop now anyway... back on topic.... its something i hope to see when watching an anime, but if its not there, its w/e, ill just prioritize those shows i know will have it, although much of the time its better when you don't expect it |
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| Who cares. Robotservice and Manservice is way better. |
| Do you play Azure Lane? Then please join my fanclub https://myanimelist.net/clubs.php?cid=74907 |
Mamster-P said: Better when you don't expect it? interesting. I definitely e had that experience with Kill la Kill, I suppose that explains liking it even in scenes where it "doesn't fit".anyway... back on topic.... its something i hope to see when watching an anime, but if its not there, its w/e, ill just prioritize those shows i know will have it, although much of the time its better when you don't expect it |
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| Honestly, if anything, fan service would only decrease my score.. |
 ♔ caught in the wonder ♔ |
merryfistmas said: Mamster-P said: Better when you don't expect it? interesting. I definitely e had that experience with Kill la Kill, I suppose that explains liking it even in scenes where it "doesn't fit".anyway... back on topic.... its something i hope to see when watching an anime, but if its not there, its w/e, ill just prioritize those shows i know will have it, although much of the time its better when you don't expect it i LOVE when i don't see ecchi coming, thats the best kind of ecchi generally for me. i mean come on, if i know its gonna be there ofc its not gonna be as hot lol. i don't want ppl telling me what they got me as a present xD i mean, obv its still hot if i know its coming, its just better when i don't |
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Mamster-P said: thats like saying people who like SAO are the exception because you're always seeing people shit talk it. just because the people who want to complain are the most vocal doesn't mean theres more of them The X doesn't work in some situations - that's true. ps. I'm "more or less" SAO fan (but GGO was bad/boring) but whenever I bring SAO in that topic most people don't like SAO. So, you are not far from the truth. ;) |
Wannabiteme said: The X doesn't work in some situations - that's true. ps. I'm "more or less" SAO fan (but GGO was bad/boring) but whenever I bring SAO in that topic most people don't like SAO. So, you are not far from the truth. ;) no, saying something doesn't work in a situation is subject an will always be |
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Mamster-P said: Wannabiteme said: The X doesn't work in some situations - that's true. ps. I'm "more or less" SAO fan (but GGO was bad/boring) but whenever I bring SAO in that topic most people don't like SAO. So, you are not far from the truth. ;) no, saying something doesn't work in a situation is subject an will always be So, I guess there is healthy person out there listening to white noise every day... |
| It doesn't really affect my score that much since I don't usually watch ecchi or anything like that. But if there is any, I usually rate the anime lower if it starts becoming obnoxious. |
| I enjoy a lot of fanservice and it's a great addition. But if the story is crap fanservice can't save it. |
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