Fai said: olha2 said: oke i don't think i have a clear view of what the "routes" are, can some explain me or link me to a page with a explanation. Fate Stay Night consists of three different versions of the same event. First you play through the first one, then it goes back to the first day and you play start again, but this time something different happens, leading the storyline into entirely new direction. After finishing it, the story starts again giving you a third version of events. All three versions are significantly different, lead to different deaths and different events and lead to the lead developing in three different directions. All three are equally canon and the existence of multiple different parallel realities is acknowledged within the storyline. However while separate stories, they rely on each other to tell a complete picture - what you learned about the characters or the world in one route, might be very relevant in the next, for example. aahhhh, oke thanks for the explanation, and can some tell me why evryone wants the Hevens Feel Route? whats so good about it? (is it possible to explain without big spoilers?) |
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olha2 said: aahhhh, oke thanks for the explanation, and can some tell me why evryone wants the Hevens Feel Route? whats so good about it? (is it possible to explain without big spoilers?) It's the most boring part of the game. Only sakura fans love the route. /opinion |
| 日本人はイッちゃってるよ あいつら未来に生きてんな |
| Fate Stay Night Is origianly a Visual novel - Interactive Story Game When you read through it there are 3 main routes you can follow, depending of your choices. They are not alternative dimentions or anything , it is just that the course of the Holy Grail War changes depending of few critical choices you make. Heavens Feel is to final route of Fate - it is longest, darkest, most twisted, important characters from other routes are gone quickly here. But in this route most questions gets answered - only heare you can fnd out what ready Holy Grail is, real motivations of some characters etc. I cant say I "like" Heavens Feel route - I prefer UBW by far, but it is maybe most important of all routes. Without it Fate wouldnt be the same. |
Angmir said: Heavens Feel is to final route of Fate - it is longest, darkest, most twisted, important characters from other routes are gone quickly here. But in this route most questions gets answered - only heare you can fnd out what ready Holy Grail is, real motivations of some characters etc. Incorrect. The shocker moment in UBW is far darker than anything in HF. HF on other hand has far more fake grimmderpness and cooking lessons AND serious pacing issues, which is thankfully balanced out by concentrated moments of badassery. Also all routes are equally important for different reasons, because they are apart of the same narrative. |
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DawnJ said: olha2 said: aahhhh, oke thanks for the explanation, and can some tell me why evryone wants the Hevens Feel Route? whats so good about it? (is it possible to explain without big spoilers?) It's the most boring part of the game. Only sakura fans love the route. /opinion Weird I thought there was a Fate route in the game. Fai said: You mean Angmir said: Heavens Feel is to final route of Fate - it is longest, darkest, most twisted, important characters from other routes are gone quickly here. But in this route most questions gets answered - only heare you can fnd out what ready Holy Grail is, real motivations of some characters etc. Incorrect. The shocker moment in UBW is far darker than anything in HF. HF on other hand has far more fake grimmderpness and cooking lessons AND serious pacing issues, which is thankfully balanced out by concentrated moments of badassery. Also all routes are equally important for different reasons, because they are apart of the same narrative. Em...no. And you seriously forget the dates and cooking lessons of Fate and UBW. |
Forgetfulness said: ssjokg said: Except the dates were actually enjoyable and lead to character development.And you seriously forget the dates and cooking lessons of Fate and UBW. By the way, when was there cooking lessons in Fate/UBW? ._. Same with the" bad pacing" of HF.That Sakura isnt likeable for some doesnt make it horrible pace. I have made two of my friends read FSN.Both disliked Saber(and Shioru to an extent) and Fate route to the point of not caring about a Fate route anime(deen or ufo). Gluttonous Saber?It is cooking/eating scenes, not "lessons" exactly. |
Forgetfulness said: ssjokg said: Except the dates were actually enjoyable and lead to character development.And you seriously forget the dates and cooking lessons of Fate and UBW. By the way, when was there cooking lessons in Fate/UBW? ._. olha2 said: The most shit happens in Heaven's Feel, the characters reach their maximum badass-ness and it probably talks the most about the Holy Grail War in generalFai said: olha2 said: oke i don't think i have a clear view of what the "routes" are, can some explain me or link me to a page with a explanation. Fate Stay Night consists of three different versions of the same event. First you play through the first one, then it goes back to the first day and you play start again, but this time something different happens, leading the storyline into entirely new direction. After finishing it, the story starts again giving you a third version of events. All three versions are significantly different, lead to different deaths and different events and lead to the lead developing in three different directions. All three are equally canon and the existence of multiple different parallel realities is acknowledged within the storyline. However while separate stories, they rely on each other to tell a complete picture - what you learned about the characters or the world in one route, might be very relevant in the next, for example. aahhhh, oke thanks for the explanation, and can some tell me why evryone wants the Hevens Feel Route? whats so good about it? (is it possible to explain without big spoilers?) Sadly, it also has the least likeable herone (IMO) Ehhhh, the badassness I can somewhat agree for Rin, but not for Shirou. Shirou was way more badass in UBW. ssjokg said: DawnJ said: olha2 said: aahhhh, oke thanks for the explanation, and can some tell me why evryone wants the Hevens Feel Route? whats so good about it? (is it possible to explain without big spoilers?) It's the most boring part of the game. Only sakura fans love the route. /opinion Weird I thought there was a Fate route in the game. Fai said: You mean Angmir said: Heavens Feel is to final route of Fate - it is longest, darkest, most twisted, important characters from other routes are gone quickly here. But in this route most questions gets answered - only heare you can fnd out what ready Holy Grail is, real motivations of some characters etc. Incorrect. The shocker moment in UBW is far darker than anything in HF. HF on other hand has far more fake grimmderpness and cooking lessons AND serious pacing issues, which is thankfully balanced out by concentrated moments of badassery. Also all routes are equally important for different reasons, because they are apart of the same narrative. Em...no. And you seriously forget the dates and cooking lessons of Fate and UBW. Yes. that's what I meant. Its the most dark GENUINE real dark moment which makes you go "OH MY GOD THEY JUST WENT THERE" IT easily tops Fate's orphans and HF's ssjokg said: Forgetfulness said: ssjokg said: Except the dates were actually enjoyable and lead to character development.And you seriously forget the dates and cooking lessons of Fate and UBW. By the way, when was there cooking lessons in Fate/UBW? ._. Same with the" bad pacing" of HF.That Sakura isnt likeable for some doesnt make it horrible pace. I have made two of my friends read FSN.Both disliked Saber(and Shioru to an extent) and Fate route to the point of not caring about a Fate route anime(deen or ufo). Gluttonous Saber?It is cooking/eating scenes, not "lessons" exactly. In fate and UBW its always something relevant happening. Also its relativelly less contrasted, because everything else is less frantic in pacing. In HF you have this desperate fight of attrition against unbeatable enemy and its suddenly "let's slowdown this awfully grimmdark and horrible shit happening for...a nice cooking session~" I love HF for the badassery, but Nasu's writing really suffered in that route, because the usual framework from UBW and fate does not work with what he tried to do there, nor with the "heroine" of the route. |
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Forgetfulness said: Eh, Nine Lives Blade Works or Unlimited Blade Works? Kinda a tough choice for me Well I did think that 9LBW was more "badass" for that scene, but less practical in general since Shirou was pretty much on his way to killing himself through the use of projection. UBW is a little less epic but still very good nonetheless and Shirou is probably stronger and more balanced in general compared to HF I'd say a swordspam of spacebattle proportions is way more epic than beating someone with a giant club. I love NIne Lives stuff, but Crane Wing is still the best thing in HF and only thing to about equal UBW in terms of awesome. |
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| Like the HF revelation was a normal case.... If it was some random guy that did it I would agree but ALL the shit of that backstory is worse than the orphans simple because of the difference in duration.Both easily top UBW. I again dont see why it is SO DARK in UBW.Wow a char was killed earlier than expected, although brutally.If it had happened in HF AFTER all the interactions with Shioru it would be.But not in UBW just because |
ssjokg said: Like the HF revelation was a normal case.... If it was some random guy that did it I would agree but ALL the shit of that backstory is worse than the orphans simple because of the difference in duration.Both easily top UBW. I again dont see why it is SO DARK in UBW.Wow a char was killed earlier than expected, although brutally.If it had happened in HF AFTER all the interactions with Shioru it would be.But not in UBW just because I diferentiate between fake grimmderpness and truly realistic and well written dark moments. I did acknowledge that HF is full of the former, which includes anything with Sakura. |
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Fai said: ssjokg said: Like the HF revelation was a normal case.... If it was some random guy that did it I would agree but ALL the shit of that backstory is worse than the orphans simple because of the difference in duration.Both easily top UBW. I again dont see why it is SO DARK in UBW.Wow a char was killed earlier than expected, although brutally.If it had happened in HF AFTER all the interactions with Shioru it would be.But not in UBW just because I diferentiate between fake grimmderpness and truly realistic and well written dark moments. I did acknowledge that HF is full of the former, which includes anything with Sakura. Define "fake grimmderpness" Because it isnt any different than saying I dont like char x so the story isnt that good. |
Fai said: Incorrect. The shocker moment in UBW is far darker than anything in HF. HF on other hand has far more fake grimmderpness and cooking lessons AND serious pacing issues, which is thankfully balanced out by concentrated moments of badassery. Also all routes are equally important for different reasons, because they are apart of the same narrative. Youy are right yet you are wrong :) I never Said Heavens feel is a well made route. Frankly i hate all those "special" effects of Shirou loosing his mind , and 20 talks with Kotomine about nothing. But it is only half as bad as some stupid plot twists, derping of characters, ultra stupidness of evry Sarvant etc. it is badly made compared to Fate adn UBW all the more. But it is still inextractable part of Fate. And it contains about twice as much of background information that the other routes. And it still ahve a few beautiful moments (like Sakura in the Rain scene or Badass good Kotomine :) ) When ppl neglect reading HF somethign liek that happens http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=459461&pages=1&show=0#msg28087043 someone BloodRequiem quoted said: The factor that bugged me the most though about Fate/Zero were the character and story inconsistencies between Fate/Stay Night and Fate/Zero. For example, Sakura's personality did not match AT ALL between Zero and Stay Night. For example, she plays a heartless, soulless little girl who seems to be completely manipulated by Zouken Matou in Fate/Zero. In Fate/Stay Night, she's a cheerful, happy-go-lucky high school girl that seems to hang out at Shirou's house a lot after the death of Kuritsugu. SAKURA !!! ??? HAPY-GO-LUCKY ?!??!?!?!?!? yeah that leaves bad aftertaste THats why we need HF to be made into Anime, as less and less ppl bother to read VN this days PS. "Hartless" isnt the weay to talk about her too... PS2. Sorry my faut - I was overfrustrated by the words alone and I havent noticed that BloodRequiem was actualy qouting that revie too. |
AngmirJan 31, 2014 11:01 AM
Forgetfulness said: @Fai what makes that death stand out for you? Is it because Bahsahkah meant a lot to Illya and was slowly killed in front of her and then Illya got her heart pulled out? I dunno, I guess that would be sadder, but not necessarily the "worst" thing that could happen, especially relative to the rest of F/sn Because it was brutal, sudden, shocking and non-chalant death of a well established character, done by character who mostly fucked around in previous route. And unlike with previous death, ssjokg said: Fai said: ssjokg said: Like the HF revelation was a normal case.... If it was some random guy that did it I would agree but ALL the shit of that backstory is worse than the orphans simple because of the difference in duration.Both easily top UBW. I again dont see why it is SO DARK in UBW.Wow a char was killed earlier than expected, although brutally.If it had happened in HF AFTER all the interactions with Shioru it would be.But not in UBW just because I diferentiate between fake grimmderpness and truly realistic and well written dark moments. I did acknowledge that HF is full of the former, which includes anything with Sakura. Define "fake grimmderpness" Because it isnt any different than saying I dont like char x so the story isnt that good. Melodramatic soap opera bullshit that is there solely to make us care about a character. |
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Fai said: Forgetfulness said: @Fai what makes that death stand out for you? Is it because Bahsahkah meant a lot to Illya and was slowly killed in front of her and then Illya got her heart pulled out? I dunno, I guess that would be sadder, but not necessarily the "worst" thing that could happen, especially relative to the rest of F/sn Because it was brutal, sudden, shocking and non-chalant death of a well established character, done by character who mostly fucked around in previous route. And unlike with previous death, ssjokg said: Fai said: ssjokg said: Like the HF revelation was a normal case.... If it was some random guy that did it I would agree but ALL the shit of that backstory is worse than the orphans simple because of the difference in duration.Both easily top UBW. I again dont see why it is SO DARK in UBW.Wow a char was killed earlier than expected, although brutally.If it had happened in HF AFTER all the interactions with Shioru it would be.But not in UBW just because I diferentiate between fake grimmderpness and truly realistic and well written dark moments. I did acknowledge that HF is full of the former, which includes anything with Sakura. Define "fake grimmderpness" Because it isnt any different than saying I dont like char x so the story isnt that good. Melodramatic soap opera bullshit that is there solely to make us care about a character. So Fate route wasnt a cheap soap opera with a freaking king that never listened to anyone with experience in kingship or the hardships of the world but solved all of her problems by falling in love with a random japanese teenager? Isnt in UBW that death cheap as well for throwing in our face the char's backstory with its Servant, during the char's final moments? Again you judge the story/scenes based on how much you liked the char. |
Fai said: Melodramatic soap opera bullshit that is there solely to make us care about a character. Wrong Knowing Makiri magic and Zouken morality i think Sakura abuse was even shown too lightly. I mena horrors she msut have been through ever since she was like 6 years old is UNSPEAKABLE. And I doubt it makes us feel more for the character. Healthy ppl usualy stay away from ppl with mental scars. Most of Japanese guys dislike non virgin characters. Most of Hentai sites have "all virgin Heroines" tags. But nvm you are talking about preferences now. I agree quality of narration of HF is lower thatn other routes, but the story is definatly stronger. It is all teh more reason to remake this route into even better Anime, polsihing it and bringing out the lost potencial. |
Angmir said: Fai said: Melodramatic soap opera bullshit that is there solely to make us care about a character. Wrong Knowing Makiri magic and Zouken morality i think Sakura abuse was even shown too lightly. I mena horrors she msut have been through ever since she was like 6 years old is UNSPEAKABLE. And I doubt it makes us feel more for the character. Healthy ppl usualy stay away from ppl with mental scars. Most of Japanese guys dislike non virgin characters. Most of Hentai sites have "all virgin Heroines" tags. But nvm you are talking about preferences now. I agree quality of narration of HF is lower thatn other routes, but the story is definatly stronger. It is all teh more reason to remake this route into even better Anime, polsihing it and bringing out the lost potencial. Nowhere do I talk about the how "dark" it should be, but how heavy-handed it is. Sakura's story is written in t he way that the whole "doom and gloom" is as shallow as someone telling you how they had a puppy and that puppy died. F/0 handled her far better. HF used all the ways it can to TRY to make us care about "that purplehead chick who has been in background for two routes". Everything surrounding her is artificially dark and a lot of stuff(ex: shirou's mental state) feel INCREBLY forced. Revelation about Shinji pretty much was the only truly tangible moment in that route. |
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Fai said: Angmir said: Fai said: Melodramatic soap opera bullshit that is there solely to make us care about a character. Wrong Knowing Makiri magic and Zouken morality i think Sakura abuse was even shown too lightly. I mena horrors she msut have been through ever since she was like 6 years old is UNSPEAKABLE. And I doubt it makes us feel more for the character. Healthy ppl usualy stay away from ppl with mental scars. Most of Japanese guys dislike non virgin characters. Most of Hentai sites have "all virgin Heroines" tags. But nvm you are talking about preferences now. I agree quality of narration of HF is lower thatn other routes, but the story is definatly stronger. It is all teh more reason to remake this route into even better Anime, polsihing it and bringing out the lost potencial. Nowhere do I talk about the how "dark" it should be, but how heavy-handed it is. Sakura's story is written in t he way that the whole "doom and gloom" is as shallow as someone telling you how they had a puppy and that puppy died. F/0 handled her far better. HF used all the ways it can to TRY to make us care about "that purplehead chick who has been in background for two routes". Everything surrounding her is artificially dark and a lot of stuff(ex: shirou's mental state) feel INCREBLY forced. Revelation about Shinji pretty much was the only truly tangible moment in that route. Yeah.Because Kariya's struggle was in no way "INCREBLY forced." Unless if you mean "here this girl is raped by worms now forget about her and focus on this poor man" handling it better. The only char in all 3 routes that the story doesnt "force" us to care about is Rin.Ilya,Shirou,Sakura and Saber all have something that the story "forces" us to learn in order to care for them. Dark or not,derping or not none of them is an exception. That, one of them had no screen time till then and for some reason you think the story shouldnt force us to like, unlike the others doesnt make it shallow. |
ssjokgJan 31, 2014 12:46 PM
Fai said: HF on other hand has far more fake grimmderpness and cooking lessons AND serious pacing issues. I just finished the game a couple of weeks ago and I felt the opposite. IMHO Fate has way more pacing issues than HF and there is definitly way more boring cooking moments in both Fate and UBW. Fai said: I love NIne Lives stuff, but Crane Wing is still the best thing in HF and only thing to about equal UBW in terms of awesome. |
SKNNJan 31, 2014 3:56 PM
| i have not red posts here yet, i personally liked Fate/stay night, this version http://myanimelist.net/anime/356/Fate/stay_night only thing i was hopping in this version when i so it first time was that Either Saber stays or Rin takes her place beside Shirou in the end, did not have problems with anything else in this version in Fate/stay night (2014) if they do that & wont screw up their relationships, any kind of relationship all chars had in Fate/stay night (friendship just partnership slight romance what Saber & Shirou had), i mean if they wont make them worse then i'm okay with things, if example they make Rin Shirou's enemy to the extend 1 has to die then i wont like it action is boring if it dose not have slight romance in it (or comedy) (& also friendship like in Fate/stay night), that's why i did not watch Fate Zero neither & Second i got enough history lesson in Fate/stay night to know the most important stuff, with some action anime's even comedy is not enough to make it good & so it need romance, even if its slight romance like in Fate/stay night, but for this anime just slight romance is enough, if its not only about fighting like Fate Zero was, i took a peek, but did not watch all, First & Final EP, & second half from both EP |
Sugram22Jan 31, 2014 4:17 PM
Sugram22 said: i have not red posts here yet, i personally liked Fate/stay night, this version http://myanimelist.net/anime/356/Fate/stay_night only thing i was hopping in this version when i so it first time was that Either Saber stays or Rin takes her place beside Shirou in the end, did not have problems with anything else in this version Saber can't "stay". Rin taking her place would mean nothing happens with Saber. if they do that & wont screw up their relationships, any kind of relationship all chars had in Fate/stay night (friendship just partnership slight romance what Saber & Shirou had), i mean if they wont make them worse then i'm okay with things, if example they make Rin Shirou's enemy to the extend 1 has to die then i wont like it Unless counting possible bad ends this would never happen. action is boring if it dose not have slight romance in it (or comedy) (& also friendship like in Fate/stay night), that's why i did not watch Fate Zero neither & Second This is nonsense since neither F/0 nor FSN focus on romance aspect. Both of them focus equally on it(FSN on Shirou/one_of_three_options and F/0 on Kiritsugu/Iri), as in - almost none at all. i got enough history lesson in Fate/stay night to know the most important stuff, LOL. If you say so. ssjokg said: Fai said: Angmir said: Fai said: Melodramatic soap opera bullshit that is there solely to make us care about a character. Wrong Knowing Makiri magic and Zouken morality i think Sakura abuse was even shown too lightly. I mena horrors she msut have been through ever since she was like 6 years old is UNSPEAKABLE. And I doubt it makes us feel more for the character. Healthy ppl usualy stay away from ppl with mental scars. Most of Japanese guys dislike non virgin characters. Most of Hentai sites have "all virgin Heroines" tags. But nvm you are talking about preferences now. I agree quality of narration of HF is lower thatn other routes, but the story is definatly stronger. It is all teh more reason to remake this route into even better Anime, polsihing it and bringing out the lost potencial. Nowhere do I talk about the how "dark" it should be, but how heavy-handed it is. Sakura's story is written in t he way that the whole "doom and gloom" is as shallow as someone telling you how they had a puppy and that puppy died. F/0 handled her far better. HF used all the ways it can to TRY to make us care about "that purplehead chick who has been in background for two routes". Everything surrounding her is artificially dark and a lot of stuff(ex: shirou's mental state) feel INCREBLY forced. Revelation about Shinji pretty much was the only truly tangible moment in that route. Yeah.Because Kariya's struggle was in no way "INCREBLY forced." Unless if you mean "here this girl is raped by worms now forget about her and focus on this poor man" handling it better. The only char in all 3 routes that the story doesnt "force" us to care about is Rin.Ilya,Shirou,Sakura and Saber all have something that the story "forces" us to learn in order to care for them. Dark or not,derping or not none of them is an exception. That, one of them had no screen time till then and for some reason you think the story shouldnt force us to like, unlike the others doesnt make it shallow. Yeah I meant latter, the way Sakura was treated. F/0 makes us care what is happening to her not by HOW it is portrayed but by WHAT is happening. FSN's HF accompanies it all with greek chorus of sorrow and compassion. For Saber, frankly I disagree, as you care about her the moment you notice the parallel to Shirou in the way she behaves. I knew her backstory the moment her identity is revealed since I love arthurian mythology, so that did not affect me in anyway. For all the boring bullshit fate route has, Saber arguably gets to do a lot of subtle stuff that tugs on your heartstrings without the route asking you to. In a way for me that's similar to how narrative surrounding Arc was written. Sakura's involvement in her own route on other hand is solely focused on making us care about her and Natsu overdoes it with overblown soap opera drama. It lacks the subtle developments of Rin or Saber. If all the route was handled on the level Shinji revelation was handled with, I would have liked that route more. Skenn said: Fai said: HF on other hand has far more fake grimmderpness and cooking lessons AND serious pacing issues. I just finished the game a couple of weeks ago and I felt the opposite. IMHO Fate has way more pacing issues than HF and there is definitly way more boring cooking moments in both Fate and UBW. Fai said: I love NIne Lives stuff, but Crane Wing is still the best thing in HF and only thing to about equal UBW in terms of awesome. WE are talking about Shirou specifically, I already said that Rin's ultimate badassery is in HF(and that's pretty much one out of total of two scenes I want to see animated from that route). WHat Illya did I did not see as badass, more of heartbreaking, but then again I have problem viewing the whole "suicidal powers of Shirou" "tweest" of HF as badass, and view it more as "Shirou, what the fuck are you doing". |
AhenshihaelJan 31, 2014 10:48 PM
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Fai said: Isnt this entirely subjective?Sugram22 said: i have not red posts here yet, i personally liked Fate/stay night, this version http://myanimelist.net/anime/356/Fate/stay_night only thing i was hopping in this version when i so it first time was that Either Saber stays or Rin takes her place beside Shirou in the end, did not have problems with anything else in this version Saber can't "stay". Rin taking her place would mean nothing happens with Saber. if they do that & wont screw up their relationships, any kind of relationship all chars had in Fate/stay night (friendship just partnership slight romance what Saber & Shirou had), i mean if they wont make them worse then i'm okay with things, if example they make Rin Shirou's enemy to the extend 1 has to die then i wont like it Unless counting possible bad ends this would never happen. action is boring if it dose not have slight romance in it (or comedy) (& also friendship like in Fate/stay night), that's why i did not watch Fate Zero neither & Second This is nonsense since neither F/0 nor FSN focus on romance aspect. Both of them focus equally on it(FSN on Shirou/one_of_three_options and F/0 on Kiritsugu/Iri), as in - almost none at all. i got enough history lesson in Fate/stay night to know the most important stuff, LOL. If you say so. ssjokg said: Fai said: Angmir said: Fai said: Melodramatic soap opera bullshit that is there solely to make us care about a character. Wrong Knowing Makiri magic and Zouken morality i think Sakura abuse was even shown too lightly. I mena horrors she msut have been through ever since she was like 6 years old is UNSPEAKABLE. And I doubt it makes us feel more for the character. Healthy ppl usualy stay away from ppl with mental scars. Most of Japanese guys dislike non virgin characters. Most of Hentai sites have "all virgin Heroines" tags. But nvm you are talking about preferences now. I agree quality of narration of HF is lower thatn other routes, but the story is definatly stronger. It is all teh more reason to remake this route into even better Anime, polsihing it and bringing out the lost potencial. Nowhere do I talk about the how "dark" it should be, but how heavy-handed it is. Sakura's story is written in t he way that the whole "doom and gloom" is as shallow as someone telling you how they had a puppy and that puppy died. F/0 handled her far better. HF used all the ways it can to TRY to make us care about "that purplehead chick who has been in background for two routes". Everything surrounding her is artificially dark and a lot of stuff(ex: shirou's mental state) feel INCREBLY forced. Revelation about Shinji pretty much was the only truly tangible moment in that route. Yeah.Because Kariya's struggle was in no way "INCREBLY forced." Unless if you mean "here this girl is raped by worms now forget about her and focus on this poor man" handling it better. The only char in all 3 routes that the story doesnt "force" us to care about is Rin.Ilya,Shirou,Sakura and Saber all have something that the story "forces" us to learn in order to care for them. Dark or not,derping or not none of them is an exception. That, one of them had no screen time till then and for some reason you think the story shouldnt force us to like, unlike the others doesnt make it shallow. Yeah I meant latter, the way Sakura was treated. F/0 makes us care what is happening to her not by HOW it is portrayed but by WHAT is happening. FSN's HF accompanies it all with greek chorus of sorrow and compassion. For Saber, frankly I disagree, as you care about her the moment you notice the parallel to Shirou in the way she behaves. I knew her backstory the moment her identity is revealed since I love arthurian mythology, so that did not affect me in anyway. For all the boring bullshit fate route has, Saber arguably gets to do a lot of subtle stuff that tugs on your heartstrings without the route asking you to. In a way for me that's similar to how narrative surrounding Arc was written. Sakura's involvement in her own route on other hand is solely focused on making us care about her and Natsu overdoes it with overblown soap opera drama. It lacks the subtle developments of Rin or Saber. If all the route was handled on the level Shinji revelation was handled with, I would have liked that route more. Skenn said: Fai said: HF on other hand has far more fake grimmderpness and cooking lessons AND serious pacing issues. I just finished the game a couple of weeks ago and I felt the opposite. IMHO Fate has way more pacing issues than HF and there is definitly way more boring cooking moments in both Fate and UBW. Fai said: I love NIne Lives stuff, but Crane Wing is still the best thing in HF and only thing to about equal UBW in terms of awesome. WE are talking about Shirou specifically, I already said that Rin's ultimate badassery is in HF(and that's pretty much one out of total of two scenes I want to see animated from that route). WHat Illya did I did not see as badass, more of heartbreaking, but then again I have problem viewing the whole "suicidal powers of Shirou" "tweest" of HF as badass, and view it more as "Shirou, what the fuck are you doing". Many have a problem with Saber(and SaberxShirou) because they know Arthur's legend.Add in the mix the reason she changed her views, especially after reading/watching FZ, and here is a relationship that was forcefully started for the sake of the story and the chars. I really dont understand how you wanted her problem to be subtle.It isnt that she used to be raped and all that shit.She still is.IF she was a char that was staying in the past, always talking about how awful it was, even if now things are better,I would agree that the story asks as to feel sorry for her. What you are asking is for the char and story to forget all about her because for some reason it is bad that we see her(and the others) pain. In FZ we dont see her much but Kariya's fate is connected with her.All the shit he goes through and his death "forces" us to care about both of them and by going from FZ to FSN you are already "forced" to care for her. So no it wasnt done better or in a different way.THe only difference is that we are forced by another char's situation.Maybe you liked Kariya way more than Sakura so it didnt affect you but the criticism FZ has gotten because of his role as a tragic character says more than this post does. You see Shirou's last resort, since otherwise they would be dead in the forest, as "Shirou, what the fuck are you doing"? |
| lets hope that shirou isnt a little bitch in this fate/stay |
| Hate Keeps me warm |
| @Forgetfulness my point was that Action wit out humor or if it dose not have humor then romance, that pure action is not fun, pure action would feel that something is missing, it can have even all action 3 humor romance, even Naruto is not that fun anymore (i mean it has gone bit down hill), but i'm just interested how it ends, in past Naruto himself made good humor/comedy a lot :D, well others helped with that to, Tears to Tiara was good to, Genres: Action, Adventure, Fantasy, Magic, but it had slight romance & humor to, well in there romance was shown in the end only, but at least id had enough humor Example Action needs romance, but Romance dose not need action, so i watch even School Romance what has no action in it as well, what i mean Action Genre alone is not much fun, it needs either comedy or romance to spice things up @Fai taking Saber's place maybe wrong way to explain it (i thought people wont misunderstand it), but in the movie Rin started dating Shirou (that what i meant before, that they become couple), in the end it was hinted that they become couple, in series Saber Also wanted her to be the1 who would stand beside him & heal her heart Saber could stay, if she would have made the wish in the end & not destroy it, its risky, but they can destroy it in the next War, aslo writer could make it like this, cause of they decided to sacrifice their feelings & destroy it they get rewarded with Miracle, saber can stay, i have seen story's were self sacrifice bets rewarded like this, or rewarded with some ones resurrection, so to saber stay is not impossible, it just up to writer how he or she makes the story & upt to animators how they will adept it :) i meant in Fate/stay night they talked about enough about history, full history in details kind of dose not interest me with this series :), to watch Zero just for action & history is not that fun :D |
Sugram22Feb 1, 2014 1:19 AM
ssjokg said: You see Shirou's last resort, since otherwise they would be dead in the forest, as "Shirou, what the fuck are you doing"? I see everything in HF as "Shirou, what the fuck are you doing?", hence why Mind of Steel is an ending I would have preferred for that route. I mean, Shirou does badass stuff(like nine lives thing) BUT, the reason he is even in this situation is something I will never agree with. I di dnot want her problem to be subtle. I wanted THE WRITING of her problem to be subtle. Seeing Saber be excited about genuine peasant stuff is subtle, because the narrative does not try to directly throw the connection of why at you. Seeing Rin's abandonment issues is subtle. And then Sakura route is full of anvils thrown at your head, shouting "THIS IS WHY YOU SHOULD CARE YOU BAD BAD PERSON" instead of showing it and building it up. Writing is just not as good. Gr33ncar said: lets hope that shirou isnt a little bitch in this fate/stay Considering he never was, I am not sure why he would start being. Sugram22 said: taking Saber's place maybe wrong way to explain it (i thought people wont misunderstand it), but in the movie Rin started dating Shirou (that what i meant before, that they become couple), in the end it was hinted that they become couple, in series Saber Also wanted her to be the1 who would stand beside him & heal her heart Two different universes. Even though all Shirou versions start out with a crush on Rin, Shirou that starts dating Rin has no feelings for Saber and Shirou who has feelings for Saber has only friendship for Rin. Saber could stay, if she would have made the wish in the end & not destroy it, its risky, but they can destroy it in the next War, aslo writer could make it like this, cause of they decided to sacrifice their feelings & destroy it they get rewarded with Miracle, saber can stay, Except that due to the nature of the Grail, that would accomplish jack shit except for birthing all evils of the world into reality and killing off humanity. i have seen story's were self sacrifice bets rewarded like this, or rewarded with some ones resurrection, so to saber stay is not impossible, it just up to writer how he or she makes the story & upt to animators how they will adept it :) Saber has already lived her full life, married, had children and died got killed. THe only possible reward for her actions is validation of the life she led and a peaceful death. i meant in Fate/stay night they talked about enough about history, full history in details kind of dose not interest me with this series :), to watch Zero just for action & history is not that fun :D Sure. That's why you are making an assumption that Saber making a wish could work, while its clear that it would not. |
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| @Fai i know last time Grail burned down MC home & a lot other homes nearby, a huge are, & they believe it only brings destruction, but maybe there is way to control it (despite the fact they have never mentioned it & maybe no1 knows, miracles happen in animes), or a writer or animator can come up with a way, its an anime, so anything is possible, its up to the writer & Animator i ton't care how it will happen, but i hope this time they give saber a chance to saty, & that she will |
Sugram22Feb 1, 2014 1:04 AM
Fai said: Sugram22 said: taking Saber's place maybe wrong way to explain it (i thought people wont misunderstand it), but in the movie Rin started dating Shirou (that what i meant before, that they become couple), in the end it was hinted that they become couple, in series Saber Also wanted her to be the1 who would stand beside him & heal her heart Two different universes. Even though all Shirou versions start out with a crush on Rin, Shirou that starts dating Rin has no feelings for Saber and Shirou who has feelings for Saber has only friendship for Rin. even in real life people move on & get new GF, ur saying that he cant? LOL i'm not talking about him dating Rin 5min after Saber left :D |
Sugram22 said: @Fai i know last time Grail burned down MC home & a lot other homes nearby, a huge are, & they believe it only brings destruction, but maybe there is way to control it (despite the fact they have never mentioned it & maybe no1 knows, miracles happen in animes), or a writer or animator can come up with a way, its an anime, so anything is possible, its up to the writer & Animator i ton't care how it will happen, but i hope this time they give saber a chance to saty, & that she will You sir, need to read the VN. Holy shit. Actually F/Z should have given you an idea of what the grail really is. |
| if not the Grail then there must be other way's saber to stay, like i say'd i ton't care how :D, i juts care about the result |
Stanfoo said: Sugram22 said: i ton't care how it will happen, but i hope this time they give saber a chance to saty, & that she will Don't get your hopes up. The only way for Saber to stay is if they never destroy the grail at the end. How likely do you think that would be? i think zero :D its anime, anything can happen, like a miracle as a reward for destroying the Grail, & they ton't know about it, until it happens |
Sugram22 said: Fai said: Sugram22 said: taking Saber's place maybe wrong way to explain it (i thought people wont misunderstand it), but in the movie Rin started dating Shirou (that what i meant before, that they become couple), in the end it was hinted that they become couple, in series Saber Also wanted her to be the1 who would stand beside him & heal her heart Two different universes. Even though all Shirou versions start out with a crush on Rin, Shirou that starts dating Rin has no feelings for Saber and Shirou who has feelings for Saber has only friendship for Rin. even in real life people move on & get new GF, ur saying that he cant? LOL i'm not talking about him dating Rin 5min after Saber left :D Nope. Shirou that falls in love with Saber is almost entirelly different person from Shirou that falls in love with Rin or SHirou that falls in love with Sakura. Sugram22 said: @Fai i know last time Grail burned down MC home & a lot other homes nearby, a huge are, & they believe it only brings destruction, but maybe there is way to control it (despite the fact they have never mentioned it & maybe no1 knows, miracles happen in animes), or a writer or animator can come up with a way, its an anime, so anything is possible, its up to the writer & Animator i ton't care how it will happen, but i hope this time they give saber a chance to saty, & that she will Except that its outright stated and shown that you can't control it. There's no way. AT all. Its an evil god waiting to be born into the world. You can't grant a wish with it. Not since the second war. The VN states it outright. Fate/Zero shows it. |
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| Fai Said: Shirou that falls in love with Saber is almost entirelly different person from Shirou that falls in love with Rin or SHirou that falls in love with Sakura. so what, that dose not mean that that they cant do it in Fate/stay night (2014), that Shirou first falls for Saber & when shes gone falls for Rin or Sakura it can happen either way, he mite fall for Saber & after she leaves comes time skip That shows him together with Rin, its up to the creator, its not impossible in other words so what if in VN Shirou that falls in love with Saber is almost entirelly different person from Shirou that falls in love with Rin or SHirou that falls in love with Sakura. & in movie Shirou that falls for Rin is different person, but Fate/stay night (2014) they mite be the same Shirou, i i tont mean she falls for all 3 :D, like i say'd before, first saber & when shes gone then Rin |
Sugram22Feb 1, 2014 2:50 AM
| @ Fai. So Shirou stopping being a blind idealist like his father and trying to save his loved one is wtf you are doing thing.For you and some others. For me and some others it shows a entirely different char than those showed through Kiritsugu's and Archer's lives which is very good since while I do understand their reasons/fate I never agreed with sacrificing your life and family/loved ones or wasting your life for strangers to the point of even forgiving the ones that betrayed you.Shirou finding a reason to live for, even if that reason is Sakura who you dont really like, is great char development and justifies all of his actions. But the difference between Saber and Sakura is that Saber's problem is in the past something that it cannot affect her anymore unlike Sakura's problem that is in the past, present and even future depending on how the story unfolds.It cannot be subtle. Saber's life wont change whether she is excited about anything in of the present or not.Sakura's life can change by anything that stimulates her emotions. |
Sugram22 said: Fai Said: Shirou that falls in love with Saber is almost entirelly different person from Shirou that falls in love with Rin or SHirou that falls in love with Sakura. so what, that dose not mean that that they cant do it in Fate/stay night (2014), that Shirou first falls for Saber & when shes gone falls for Rin or Sakura it can happen either way, he mite fall for Saber & after she leaves comes time skip That shows him together with Rin, its up to the creator, its not impossible in other words so what if in VN Shirou that falls in love with Saber is almost entirely different person from Shirou that falls in love with Rin or SHirou that falls in love with Sakura. & in movie Shirou that falls for Rin is different person, but Fate/stay night (2014) they mite be the same Shirou, i i tont mean she falls for all 3 :D, like i say'd before, first saber & when shes gone then Rin Except that Shirou's char development in each route depends on who he falls in love with.With Saber he will continue to ignore people's word about him being fucked up. With Rin he will have someone to remind him that his ideals arent realistic. With Sakura he drops those ideals. And since it isnt a love story, even if any of his loved ones die,he wont just change loved ones.The war is what makes him come close to each heroine.Without that he would never "make a move" on them. |
ssjokg said: @ Fai. So Shirou stopping being a blind idealist like his father and trying to save his loved one is wtf you are doing thing.For you and some others. Never saw him stopping being that. Just his tunnel vision got so small that only one person fit into it. For me and some others it shows a entirely different char than those showed through Kiritsugu's and Archer's lives which is very good since while I do understand their reasons/fate I never agreed with sacrificing your life and family/loved ones or wasting your life for strangers to the point of even forgiving the ones that betrayed you.Shirou finding a reason to live for, even if that reason is Sakura who you dont really like, is great char development and justifies all of his actions. I am okay with Cynnical Shirou of HF as opposite to Pragmatist Shirou of UBW and Idealist Shirou of Fate. I am not okay for the reason he did it, because it felt hilariously ooc and unrealistic. But the difference between Saber and Sakura is that Saber's problem is in the past something that it cannot affect her anymore unlike Sakura's problem that is in the past, present and even future depending on how the story unfolds.It cannot be subtle. Saber's life wont change whether she is excited about anything in of the present or not.Sakura's life can change by anything that stimulates her emotions. That does not excuse Sakura's circumstances being writed in incredibly heavyhanded and anvilicious way full of cheese. |
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Sugram22 said: so what, that dose not mean that that they cant do it in Fate/stay night (2014), that Shirou first falls for Saber & when shes gone falls for Rin or Sakura no it can't because he would have to be three entirely different people. Sugram22 said: it can happen either way, he mite fall for Saber & after she leaves comes time skip That shows him together with Rin, its up to the creator, its not impossible Noope. He would still be shirou who fell in love with Saber, and that Shirou would not consider Rin as anything more than a friend. in other words so what if in VN Shirou that falls in love with Saber is almost entirelly different person from Shirou that falls in love with Rin or SHirou that falls in love with Sakura. & in movie Shirou that falls for Rin is different person, but Fate/stay night (2014) they mite be the same Shirou, i i tont mean she falls for all 3 :D, like i say'd before, first saber & when shes gone then Rin Except that for him to fall in love with multiple people, would mean to completely take away everything that his character stands for, which won't happen. |
|
Fai said: ssjokg said: @ Fai. So Shirou stopping being a blind idealist like his father and trying to save his loved one is wtf you are doing thing.For you and some others. Never saw him stopping being that. Just his tunnel vision got so small that only one person fit into it. For me and some others it shows a entirely different char than those showed through Kiritsugu's and Archer's lives which is very good since while I do understand their reasons/fate I never agreed with sacrificing your life and family/loved ones or wasting your life for strangers to the point of even forgiving the ones that betrayed you.Shirou finding a reason to live for, even if that reason is Sakura who you dont really like, is great char development and justifies all of his actions. I am okay with Cynnical Shirou of HF as opposite to Pragmatist Shirou of UBW and Idealist Shirou of Fate. I am not okay for the reason he did it, because it felt hilariously ooc and unrealistic. But the difference between Saber and Sakura is that Saber's problem is in the past something that it cannot affect her anymore unlike Sakura's problem that is in the past, present and even future depending on how the story unfolds.It cannot be subtle. Saber's life wont change whether she is excited about anything in of the present or not.Sakura's life can change by anything that stimulates her emotions. That does not excuse Sakura's circumstances being writed in incredibly heavyhanded and anvilicious way full of cheese. YEs his tunnel of vision has only his loved one.The exact opposite of Kiritusgu and Archer and also my point. THe reason,his loved one, is the entire point.That the person he loves isnt likebale for you doesnt make t wrong/bad. Your opinion.They cant be subtle about her circumstances , you wanted them to be.That doesnt change the writing into being bad. |
ssjokg said: Sugram22 said: Fai Said: Shirou that falls in love with Saber is almost entirelly different person from Shirou that falls in love with Rin or SHirou that falls in love with Sakura. so what, that dose not mean that that they cant do it in Fate/stay night (2014), that Shirou first falls for Saber & when shes gone falls for Rin or Sakura it can happen either way, he mite fall for Saber & after she leaves comes time skip That shows him together with Rin, its up to the creator, its not impossible in other words so what if in VN Shirou that falls in love with Saber is almost entirely different person from Shirou that falls in love with Rin or SHirou that falls in love with Sakura. & in movie Shirou that falls for Rin is different person, but Fate/stay night (2014) they mite be the same Shirou, i i tont mean she falls for all 3 :D, like i say'd before, first saber & when shes gone then Rin Except that Shirou's char development in each route depends on who he falls in love with.With Saber he will continue to ignore people's word about him being fucked up. With Rin he will have someone to remind him that his ideals arent realistic. With Sakura he drops those ideals. And since it isnt a love story, even if any of his loved ones die,he wont just change loved ones.The war is what makes him come close to each heroine.Without that he would never "make a move" on them. if hes with Saber & she leaves, in time hes wounds heal & he moves on & gets new GF, & why not Rin? also that what Saber wanted, she say'd it indirectly to Rin, i think her words were i want u to stand bi him & so on & on, or something like that, or do u think he cant move on & stay's single for life after Saber leaves? & what ur talking about are VN routes, that dose not mean they follow VN plot!!! maybe they manga, or maybe they change it a bit even if they follow manga or VN |
Sugram22Feb 1, 2014 3:15 AM
Sugram22 said: ssjokg said: Sugram22 said: Fai Said: Shirou that falls in love with Saber is almost entirelly different person from Shirou that falls in love with Rin or SHirou that falls in love with Sakura. so what, that dose not mean that that they cant do it in Fate/stay night (2014), that Shirou first falls for Saber & when shes gone falls for Rin or Sakura it can happen either way, he mite fall for Saber & after she leaves comes time skip That shows him together with Rin, its up to the creator, its not impossible in other words so what if in VN Shirou that falls in love with Saber is almost entirely different person from Shirou that falls in love with Rin or SHirou that falls in love with Sakura. & in movie Shirou that falls for Rin is different person, but Fate/stay night (2014) they mite be the same Shirou, i i tont mean she falls for all 3 :D, like i say'd before, first saber & when shes gone then Rin Except that Shirou's char development in each route depends on who he falls in love with.With Saber he will continue to ignore people's word about him being fucked up. With Rin he will have someone to remind him that his ideals arent realistic. With Sakura he drops those ideals. And since it isnt a love story, even if any of his loved ones die,he wont just change loved ones.The war is what makes him come close to each heroine.Without that he would never "make a move" on them. if hes with Saber & she leaves, in time hes wounds heal & he moves on & gets new GF, & why not Rin? also that what Saber wanted, she say'd it indirectly, or do u think he cant move on & stay's single for life after Saber leaves? & what ur talking about are VN routes, that dose not mean they follow VN plot!!! maybe they manga, or maybe they change it a bit even if they follow manga or VN Because he just doesnt care about getting a gf.He may get one but it wont be Sakura or Rin because of the story itself. Vn or new route his char is the same.It cant change.If it does it means he isnt the same Shirou but some other char with none of his propblems. |
| Then it isnt a TM story at all. It is just some random Twilight series with chars named after FSN's chars. |
Sugram22 said: if hes with Saber & she leaves, in time hes wounds heal & he moves on & gets new GF, & why not Rin? also that what Saber wanted, she say'd it indirectly to Rin, i think her words were i want u to stand bi him & so on & on, or something like that, or do u think he cant move on & stay's single for life after Saber leaves? & what ur talking about are VN routes, that dose not mean they follow VN plot!!! maybe they manga, or maybe they change it a bit even if they follow manga or VN Except that Shirou does not move on. Ever. That would require to have a self-identity and an actual ego, both of which are dead. And since both Rin, Sakura and Saber embody three different personalities Shirou can develop into, he can't fall in love with all of them and be same person. ssjokg said: Your opinion.They cant be subtle about her circumstances , you wanted them to be.That doesnt change the writing into being bad. Subtle approach =/= writing subtlety. Different things. Writing lacking subtlety is objectively bad and it has nothing to do with the subtlety of the subject that is being written about. |
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| Yea a bit disappointing. But they will probably ad the good part from all three routes and make into one story somehow i think. Things like Shiro is |
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