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| Also, Saki.....using what might be the last library and bastion of vast ancient knowledge as a flash grenade...really? |
| The Art of Eight |
symbv said: Zatheyll said: I don't mind if it really turns out to be a boy, but what is the evidence in the anime that shows it is a boy. That is what I want to know.The child is a boy. Long hair doesn't show a gender, and if he was brought up by queerats he would have no reason to ever cut his hair, so it is easily believable it would get that long after over or around 9 years. Being a boy in the original work is more than enough. There is no reason at all for them to change the gender of the character, and if the length of hair is the only thing that makes people think it's a girl then there really is no reason to believe the "fiend" is anything other than a boy. |
Zatheyll said: It is one thing to say in novel it is a boy and in anime it is not said definitely its gender, and completely another thing to say "it is a boy in both anime and manga" just because the novel has it as a boy but nothing is said about its gender in the anime. Your logic is flawed here. I am not saying it has to be a girl, but before you call it so certainly that it is a girl you need to show me evidence that how based on the anime alone its gender is female.Being a boy in the original work is more than enough. There is no reason at all for them to change the gender of the character |
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
symbv said: It was mentioned that she controls all the library archive including those library animals. You cannot assume that 1) Saki's mom knowing it must mean that her predecessor also knows it 2) Saki's mom knowing it means education board must also know it. Lets clear up the facts The psycho buster was made by the ancients over 1000 years prior to the series. The one vile was also stored in Tokyo, a desolate region in Japan that the current society believes to be 'hell' on Earth. Just stop and think about this for a second... If for some reason Saki's mom was one of the first to find out about this flask, how would she know what it was designed to do without any testing. Also, how would she know the location of the flask. This is solid evidence that she knew about psycho buster due to records left behind by the 'ancients' eventually handed down to her predecessors. Also relating to our real world, history is recorded and past down from generation to generation, so putting the two together, it should be very plausible that during the K incident at least a few people knew about this weapon as well. symbv said: It is a problem only if this thing is easily obtainable, carries no risk (I am not talking about just the death feedback mechanism here), and its existence widely known. None of it is true in this story as we have seen so far. It is definitely not hard to obtain, since it took 3 humans and a queerrat to find the flask. If the village was actually serious, a group of 5 humans would have easily found the flask with the help of a Minoshiro. As far as the risk was concerned. I don't really see anything. Saki said only Satoru was at risk to die because he was in such close quarters. Even if he were to die, it would only take one to kill a fiend, instead of sacrificing countless defenseless children... |
Yangbo said: Wait, what you said I have no problem with but that does not contradict any of my points. Just stop and think about this for a second... If for some reason Saki's mom was one of the first to find out about this flask, how would she know what it was designed to do without any testing. Also, how would she know the location of the flask. This is solid evidence that she knew about psycho buster due to records left behind by the 'ancients' eventually handed down to her predecessors. [ Yangbo said: Sure, but what I am saying is that for the community that Tomoko found herself in we do not know whether this knowledge was available to those involved. It is not difficult to imagine situation when none of the involved knew about the existence psychobuster, like the librarian was also dead, or the librarian had not got to the part about the record of psychobuster yet like Saki's mom did. Also relating to our real world, history is recorded and past down from generation to generation, so putting the two together, it should be very plausible that during the K incident at least a few people knew about this weapon as well. Yangbo said: I think the episode when they entered Tokyo showed it abundantly clear that it was HARD to obtain. We can even say it was like a miracle that they could actually find it. To be honest, if Saki's mom had known the real situation of Tokyo, she might have not asked her daughter to take so much risk to go there and find the weapon. She must have been very stressed and desperate to ask Saki to try to get the psychobuster.It is definitely not hard to obtain, since it took 3 humans and a queerrat to find the flask. Yangbo said: Psychobuster works not just against a fiend, but any human. This means you cannot really select it to just kill your victim, it can be of risk to the deployer or the disease can spread to other bystanders. As far as the risk was concerned. I don't really see anything. Yangbo said: Weeding off the children is not just a matter of removing fiend from its bud. Any issue that may produce problem to the society if he/she grows up is considered a problem that needs to be tackled early, from Saki's sister, to the boy who used dishonest practice to win a game, to Saki's classmate who shows herself weak in using her power.. None of these has to be with removing a fiend, so the sacrifice of children is not just for the prevention of fiend's appearance. Even if he were to die, it would only take one to kill a fiend, instead of sacrificing countless defenseless children... |
symbvMar 17, 2013 1:40 AM
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
Xaverius said: Wait, it never said that the child actually slaughtered Kiroumaru's army. All we know is the child stopped those arrows etc, so the child's role could well be just for defense, not attacking other queerats. As for Kiroumaru's escape, from his point of view, he may have thought he just avoided attack by the child, but we don't know if he really appeared before the child he will be attacked. If the death feedback could affect the child, then how could he slaughter Kiroumaru's army? Kiroumaru said that he escaped by running past the fiend, so he was killing the querats directly. |
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
| I am so keen! |
 |
| This episode was ok. I am doing a couple facepalms though. First, Saki decides to care about Satoru now. I still can't get over the episode when the gunpowder mutant blew up and she brushed off Satoru. Simply said "Oh, you're ok, great." when he returned alive. Maybe they were running low on time and cut it out (moar upside down falling with style) I'm a fan of Saki x Satoru, but it seems they have done everything in their power to keep this from happening and were forced to use it in this last episode. Though after this, not that much of a fan of Saki anymore. Destroying the Psycho-Buster pretty much makes the episodes dedicated to them finding everything seem in vain. I shake my head when all the various people refer to her "strength". After seeing her burn the Anthrax (Psycho-Buster is a silly name), in no way do I see any kind of "strength" people keep seeing in her. She turns out to be a person who values friends over the greater good. Then again, maybe this anime is trying to address the pros and cons of altruism, I dunno. Well, like many others, I was relieved (for now) that Kiroumaru turned out to be trust worthy. He's definitely my favorite character in the series, human or not. Though one thing bothers me. He's different from most of the other Monster Rats. He looks more wolf/lizard like. Did they ever explain that? I know that he noted he looked different but still did everything for the Monster Rats. |
symbv said: Sure, but what I am saying is that for the community that Tomoko found herself in we do not know whether this knowledge was available to those involved. It is not difficult to imagine situation when none of the involved knew about the existence psychobuster, like the librarian was also dead, or the librarian had not got to the part about the record of psychobuster yet like Saki's mom did. Although, the events that you have provided can't be dis-proven, common sense deduces them as highly unlikely scenarios; especially "the librarian had not got to the part about the record of psychobuster". symbv said: I think the episode when they entered Tokyo showed it abundantly clear that it was HARD to obtain. I have to disagree. The Rageworms, most dangerous creature in Tokyo, was obliterated in a matter of seconds when faced against Cantus. The only reason Inui died was because he wanted to save the inadept Saki from utter death. If the village sent a squad of 5 experienced cantus users with the minoshiro, retrieving the vile would be a piece of cake, especially since they wouldn't be chased after by Squealer. symbv said: Psychobuster works not just against a fiend, but any human. This means you cannot really select it to just kill your victim, it can be of risk to the deployer or the disease can spread to other bystanders. I'm well aware that the disease affects all PK users. You can select who to kill off, just by isolating them, like what Saki/Satoru did. Plus the only causalities would be the people in close proximity of the detonation (Satoru). Since the disease is similar to anthrax, it is transmitted via bacterial spores,so it spores be easily contained by manipulating wind using cantus. (This is another loop hole in the story as a fiend could use cantus to stop the spores from infecting him/her...) The reason I bring this up is because the town is killing off hundreds if not thousands of kids because they 'might' become a fiend; instead of just using the psychobuster to kill the fiend when it it appears with little to no casualties in Satoru's case. |
YangboMar 17, 2013 5:34 AM
Yangbo said: Your common sense is one thing, what is common sense in the Tomoko's time and place is another. I would say that my scenario is a lot more likely than yours because apparently the chaos was even larger scale at that time (thousands were killed). Although, the events that you have provided can't be dis-proven, common sense deduces them as highly unlikely scenarios; especially "the librarian had not got to the part about the record of psychobuster". As for "the librarian had not got to the part about the record of psychobuster", it is also possible because the library contains so vast information it is not known how much even a master librarian is managed to get through. We also do not have any proof that knowledge about anti-cantus-human weapon is passed along. I can entirely believe a scenario that this knowledge only resurfaced because of some meticulous research done by Saki's mother. I think this also makes absolute sense too. At the end my point is there are a lot of valid reasons for psychobuster not playing any role in K incident 200 years ago - lack of knowledge, or the person who knows it was dead, or the chaos was too big, or perhaps even there was an attempt to use it but for whatever reason it failed. Everything we knew came from Tomoko and we simply do not have enough information to tell whether pyschobuster was involved at any stage in K incident or if it was to what extent. I do not see why it is commonsense to cling on to the belief that psychobuster must be already widely known and could have been easily obtained to deploy against K at the time. I would say it is commonsense that the contrary was the case. Yangbo said: I watched ep.21 and 22 again and I just could not see how you could say the Tokyo trip was an easy one. It is made abundantly clear that they were always at risk and would have been killed in more than one occasion if they did not happen to have Kiroumaru, whose knowledge is mostly shared by very few others, as well as that library machine. They met several creatures - the flea storm was deemed sure-death even for people with cantus if they had reacted just a bit slower, the carnivorous slugs could easily wear down those people if they met more along the way. Even the rageworm managed to kill one of them at certain point, or the rageworm would have killed Saki too if Inui was not around. The whole point of the two episodes is to show how unapproachable Tokyo is even for people with cantus. In fact it is stated that even for human Tokyo is a forbidden place -- they never wanted to go back there in the first place, so your theory of getting the stuff first does not really make sense. They only went there because of the desperate situation. The idea that even 5 people with the minoshiro can do it like "a piece of cake" is completely misreading the situation in my opinion, given that no human seems to be aware of the danger and horror that lurks in Tokyo (we must not forget it is entirely a matter of luck that Saki finds out Kiromaru can be an experienced guide, most human would never think of letting a squeerat be a guide and they probably will never consider the possibility that a squeerat that lives near them could have known Tokyo so well). I have to disagree. The Rageworms, most dangerous creature in Tokyo, was obliterated in a matter of seconds when faced against Cantus. If the village sent a squad of 5 experienced cantus users with the minoshiro, retrieving the vile would be a piece of cake, especially since they wouldn't be chased after by Squealer. Yangbo said: Yes, indeed, the fiend may not be able to act with the spores once it enters its body but it can use wind etc to stop the spores from getting to it in the first place, which is why I said even using anthrax is no guarantee. It involves difficulty of delivery as well as risk to the side using it. It is not any foolproof weapon. It is just a weapon of despair. I'm well aware that the disease affects all PK users. You can select who to kill off, just by isolating them, like what Saki/Satoru did. Plus the only causalities would be the people in close proximity of the detonation (Satoru). Since the disease is similar to anthrax, it is transmitted via bacterial spores,so it spores be easily contained by manipulating wind using cantus. (This is another loop hole in the story as a fiend could use cantus to stop the spores from infecting him/her...) Yangbo said: As I said, the town kills off kids not only because they might become a fiend. As my examples show the practice serves other purposes too, so your single-minded focus of the link of the child-killing practice with fear of fiend is only partially right. That's my point.The reason I bring this up is because the town is killing off hundreds if not thousands of kids because they 'might' become a fiend; instead of just using the psychobuster to kill the fiend when it it appears with little to no casualties in Satoru's case. |
symbvMar 17, 2013 6:39 AM
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
| To everyone who thinks Maria's kid is a girl. Remember back in episode 21 when the child was screaming and there was rocks flying around? Well there was also an updraft as you can see in the second picture and I believe it would have been entirely possible for everyone there to catch a glimpse of what was under his little skirt, I mean rag. Thats why they all refer to him as a boy, he is just a girly boy like his father was. In conclusion Saki seen his wiener, he is a boy, the end. |
Mikuo_Chan said: I do not think Maria's child is necessarily a girl, but I have not seen evidence that it is a boy in the anime either. I looked at the two pictures you included in your post but how could those two pics showed that it is a boy? Its body is still covered in rag in both pics. Where does it show that whatever private part that Saki saw is a male one?To everyone who thinks Maria's kid is a girl. Mikuo_Chan said: Are you talking about the English sub? I did not watch the anime with English sub but in the Japanese dialog I don't think there is mention of its gender. If the subtitle makes explicit use of "he" or "him" then the subbers are just jumping to conclusion and not doing proper translation. Thats why they all refer to him as a boy |
symbvMar 17, 2013 6:48 AM
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
symbv said: Where does it show that whatever private part that Saki saw is a male one? Well of course we the viewers wouldn't be able to see it, censorship and whatnot, but the wind in that episode was blowing pretty violently. It could have happened, you have to pretend your looking through the eyes of someone who was there. |
Mikuo_Chan said: I do not doubt that it is entirely possible that Saki could see the kid's private part, but my question is how can we tell in the anime the private part that Saki saw is a male private part not a female private part?symbv said: Well of course we the viewers wouldn't be able to see it, censorship and whatnot, but the wind in that episode was blowing pretty violently. It could have happened, you have to pretend your looking through the eyes of someone who was there.Where does it show that whatever private part that Saki saw is a male one? |
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
symbv said: Yeah, In the English sub she calls it a boy I guess it would be better than calling him "it". But anyway it was originally a boy in the novel so it damn well is one in the anime and that's that.Are you talking about the English sub? |
Mikuo_Chan said: This logic is flawed though. In novel it is specifically stated it is a boy (I read the novel too) but here there is no clear depiction of it being a boy and there is no explicit description that it is a boy, so I would prefer to take its gender in the anime as "unknown", at least for viewers like us (perhaps Saki knows if she manages to see its private part).But anyway it was originally a boy in the novel so it damn well is one in the anime and that's that. Mikuo_Chan said: In English I think "it" can be used as a gender-neutral pronoun ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-neutral_pronoun#Modern_English ). Of course "he" can also be used, but in this case we see the resulting confusion -- all of you just take the translation and think that in the anime everyone is calling it "a boy" whereas in fact the Japanese dialogue never discloses its gender. In the English sub call it a boy I guess it would be better than calling him "it". |
symbvMar 17, 2013 7:05 AM
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
| Stupid argument about the kid's gender. He's like what? 10-years-old. He's not going to look very masculine. |
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MoonageDaydream said: It can be a boy not looking very masculine or it can be a girl. The fact is nowhere in the anime have we seen any proof of its gender.Stupid argument about the kid's gender. He's like what? 10-years-old. He's not going to look very masculine. |
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
symbv said: Well aren't you a smarty pants with your logic and all, however I can at least agree with you for the most part. I will continue to believe he is a boy and hopefully in the end Saki will save the day so she and Satoru can live happily ever after and raise Maria's child and then Shun will come back to life and so will everyone else and there will be rainbows everywhere and everything will be perfect.Mikuo_Chan said: This logic is flawed though. In novel it is specifically stated it is a boy (I read the novel too) but here there is no clear depiction of it being a boy and there is no explicit description that it is a boy, so I would prefer to take its gender in the anime as "unknown", at least for viewers like us (perhaps Saki knows if she manages to see its private part).But anyway it was originally a boy in the novel so it damn well is one in the anime and that's that. |
Mikuo_ChanMar 17, 2013 7:09 AM
Mikuo_Chan said: If I am a smarty pants, you might as well call most of the Japanese fans smarty pants too. In Japanese forum the consensus is that the gender of the kid is not clear, and it is agreed even by those who already read the novel and knew it is depicted as a boy there. For the remaining people, far more think it is a girl than it is a boy. Well aren't you a smarty pants with your logic and all, however I can at least agree with you for the most part. |
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
symbv said: Oh dear I think I stumbled across a debater didn't I... Oh well hopefully the anime will make clear what the gender is soon so it can prove you all wrong. Until that happens this is going to be just like Crona from Soul Eater and nobody wants to go discussing that again.If I am a smarty pants, you might as well call most of the Japanese fans smarty pants too. |
Mikuo_Chan said: You only realize it now? That's a bit late as I thought you were going to say you stumbled across a Japanese-speaking debater instead ;-)Oh dear I think I stumbled across a debater didn't I... Mikuo_Chan said: There is no way what happens later in the anime can prove me wrong because what I am saying is UP TILL NOW we don't know what gender the kid is. Remember, I am NOT saying the kid is definitely a girl.Oh well hopefully the anime will make clear what the gender is soon so it can prove you all wrong. |
symbvMar 17, 2013 7:30 AM
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
symbv said: Well that's enough for me Japanese-speaking debaters are difficult to beat, so let me leave you with this. a lot of stuff IT'S A BOY IT'S A BOY IT'S A BOY IT'S A BOY IT'S A BOY IT'S A BOY IT'S A BOY IT'S A BOY IT'S A BOY IT'S A BOY IT'S A BOY IT'S A BOY IT'S A BOY IT'S A BOY IT'S A BOY IT'S A BOY IT'S A BOY IT'S A BOY IT'S A BOY IT'S A BOY IT'S A BOY IT'S A BOY IT'S A BOY IT'S A BOY IT'S A BOY IT'S A BOY IT'S A BOY!!!!! I WIN AND YOU LOSE AND I'M NOT LISTENING TO YOU ANYMORE NAHANHANAHNAAA!!!! |
Mikuo_Chan said: I am not preventing you to believe what you want to believe. At the end it may be happier thing to indulge in your own belief and imagine you have "won". Just don't go around and tell everyone that it is proven in anime that the kid is a boy and I am contented. IT'S A BOY IT'S A BOY IT'S A BOY IT'S A BOY!!!!! I WIN AND YOU LOSE AND I'M NOT LISTENING TO YOU ANYMORE NAHANHANAHNAAA!!!! |
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
| That was a very intense episode. Too bad they didn't kill the fiend but glad Satoru is still alive. But I would say its pretty obvious that's its a boy. So sad next week is the last episode it's been such a great ride even with that controversial episode. |
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| Who cares about the gender?? Mamoria is HOT! |
Lokkenaldo said: That he/she is HOT in the anime I'd definitely agree! ;-) Reading the novel I had never expected he/she would turn out to be like what he/she looks like in the anime.Who cares about the gender?? Mamoria is HOT! |
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
| Holy shit, this episode was intense...And fast, i whould've waited for next week to watch 24 and 25, so, one week eh? I'll miss this show. |
| Alcyone. Electra. Maia. Taygeta. Calaeno. Asterope. Merope. By the blessing of the Seven Sisters, I descend from four hundred lightyears in space! I AM MR PLEIADES!!  |
| Since it is Saki's decision of what to do next, I'm pretty sure she will come up with something smart. She is really smart and really sensitive... And yeah, I'm already missing Shinsekai yori (nice that we can re-watch it all with the BD version). |
| Fantastic episode! Very intense. I don't know if Saki is delirious, but Shun seems to be her voice of reason. I wonder what the akki thought when he saw his reflection in the mirror. If Kiroumaru is the key,then he may be the only one capable of attacking the akki. It really seems as if the akki thinks of himself as a bakenezumi, and is afraid of attacking them because of the death feedback. But, he wiped out Kiroumaru's whole army.... I really don't know what's gonna happen. What are they gonna do with the Psycho Buster now gone? Can't wait!!! |
| "We should be more proud of NEETs! Love the country that strives to produce NEETs, for world peace, we must stand up! We must find more non NEET-in-waiting elites, learn from each other , form a new Japanese Party, and bravely challenge the evil! Grow, NEETs! Grow like blazing fire! NEETs!” |
symbv said: I can entirely believe a scenario that this knowledge only resurfaced because of some meticulous research done by Saki's mother. I think this also makes absolute sense too. As far as the anime is concerned nothing about the K incident is solidified. Many significant aspects are solely based on speculation (Same with the mechanics of the death feedback) The idea of Saki's mom being the person discovering the disease though, is utter nonsense... Tokyo is filled with terrible creatures because people imagined it to be 'hell' and due to cantus leakage made it a reality. As a result it has been abandoned by society. So how would Saki's mom know about the psycho buster if it is presumed that no human has dared to set foot into Tokyo? And more importantly how would she know of its affects towards PK users without inadvertently spreading the spore? The only possible explanation was that the knowledge of disease was passed down to Saki's mom. symbv said: I watched ep.21 and 22 again .... The whole point of the two episodes is to show how unapproachable Tokyo is even for people with cantus. I'll try to break this down as simple as I can. -Saki and Satoru are inexperience young adults -Kiromaru is a queerrat with no cantus -Inui is the only experienced member of the group. They were able to recover the vile... Yes Inui died, but it was because of Saki being inexperienced.. Also Kiromaru's 'knowledge' about Tokyo can easily be replaced by that of a false minoshiro. Although the time at spent in Tokyo was portrayed as an dire situation for Saki and Co, it was only the case due to their ineptitude. To put it bluntly, their group was made up of '2 noob cantus users with relatively no field experience, a rat and a babysitter'... symbv said: Yes, indeed, the fiend may not be able to act with the spores once it enters its body but it can use wind etc to stop the spores from getting to it in the first place, which is why I said even using anthrax is no guarantee. It involves difficulty of delivery as well as risk to the side using it. It is not any foolproof weapon. It is just a weapon of despair. I realize how it is a weapon of despair so why wasn't used on a real fiend such as K in the past when there is a high chance that the higher ups knew about it's existence... symbv said: As I said, the town kills off kids not only because they might become a fiend. As my examples show the practice serves other purposes too, so your single-minded focus of the link of the child-killing practice with fear of fiend is only partially right. That's my point. I'm pretty sure that the Tomoko explained to Saki that they only reason they were killing of kids for one purpose, which was to prevent fiends/karma demons.. They killed the weak and unstable because they lack the control of their cantus, thus they feared they would succumb to their cantus. They also killed mischievous/lawbreaking kids, but I don't think I have to explain myself on that one. I might have missed other reasons to kill of their village members (I'll try to re-watch that one episode), so feel free to enlighten me. Finally If it is still unclear, my whole 'beef' with the current state of the series is that there is no consistency in the towns rational in the death feedback/fiend debacle in their efforts to create a world with psuedo-peace. which makes up the core of this anime... |
YangboMar 17, 2013 2:58 PM
deave112 said: Ulla said: Since it is Saki's decision of what to do next, I'm pretty sure she will come up with something smart. She is really smart and really sensitive... And yeah, I'm already missing Shinsekai yori (nice that we can re-watch it all with the BD version). There's also the manga... The manga is some weird combination of ecchi and shounen, the story is also very different than the story we see in the anime :/ |
methylmercury said: Joseito1875 said: Fantastic episode! Very intense. I don't know if Saki is delirious, but Shun seems to be her voice of reason. If i look at it as in our world, i don't think Shun is only in her mind. It would be like a mental illness. Doesn't she behave too normally? If you hallucinate, there have to be also some effects biologically. She doesn't have any speech and communication problem. She can understand what is going on around her very well. Just going blank a little is not evidence of anything. So it's hard for me to believe that's something her mind created. On the contrary i don't know what kind of diseases they have. Their world, biology and abilities are different from us. That means there can be also different reactions=) If it's her creation she is really clever. Considering its outside in the realm where cantus can leak, and some pseudo-quantum explanation was made in the past, perhaps a small portion of Shun's cantus leaked inside to her. Anyhow, I'm pretty sure the key to winning this fight is using that thinks that he kill his own species death feedback.  Might need this to see the animation I posted above, or run firefox. |
| Yakomaru is Lelouch Vi Britania of Shinsekai Yori. haha |
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llefvoid said: Well, if you take only the comments in this forum, this may be the case, but I also must say that a lot of readers here do not seem to put a lot of thoughts into this work and are using some black-and-white thinking that does not do the work justice. I have read quite a number of book reviews of this novel in Japanese blogs or Amazon sites, a large number of them mention the difficult question that there is no clear good or bad for the queerats and human. Actually Tryss put in a very good comment that reflects what I read in Japanese reviews: And gaging by the reactions in this forum, it seems that too a large chunk of viewers it's also about us vs them, the good humans defeating the bad rats. http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=570909&show=80#msg20698621 llefvoid said: The key point is that Tokyo is not that bad ONLY if you have sufficient preparation. It is clear that the humans would have been in serious jeopardy if Kiromaru did not accompany them. Without his knowledge, the routes they took could have been even worse. A team of human may be very well prepared to clean up a colony but facing unknown terrain and unknown creatures, they could easily be worn down and decimated. Just the flea horde can devour them without them knowing (in fact even after knowing what it is Saki's team still does not seem to have any way to deal with it but just run). Regarding the other ongoing discussion in this thread (too many posts to quote), I think it was fairly clear Tokyo was not that bad. They went with 3 humans and 1 rat, taking bad routes because they were being chased. Furthermore, one of the humans was fairly inept (I'm looking at you, Saki) and needed extra cover from the other 2. A team of 5 of the sorts they used to "clean up" rat colonies would have been more than enough. llefvoid said: You are assuming that it is a "much better alternative" although Saki's mother clearly said it is "forbidden knowledge", meaning it is something that is not supposed to be used and the reason why she now asks Saki to retrieve it is because of the desperate situation. Saki's mother may feel heartbroken for the loss of her first daughter, but this is something that the human society at that time has come to accept as necessary sacrifice. Saki's mother may mourn but the commonsense at that time is that she would think that it is still the best policy for all. She lost a child to the cat policies. It's unbelievable that she would not try her utmost to make the council see that there was a much better alternative. llefvoid said: I think you need to accept that not everything will come with detailed explanation. We have seen how rats kill human in sneak attacks even when they face a group of human, killing 2 humans should be a much easier task.Lastly, I hope that at least in the last episode they explain what happened to Maria and Mamoru. How did their child end up in the rats' hands? And don't give me the "the rats killed them" crap, they were still humans with Cantii. |
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
Yangbo said: It is nonsense only because you choose not to contemplate it is a possibility NOT because it is impossible. The idea of Saki's mom being the person discovering the disease though, is utter nonsense... Yangbo said: This is jumping to conclusion. It is also possible that Saki's mom did her own research using the library archive, and found this entry of psychobuster and record of its location in Tokyo. You assume that the knowledge must have been passed directly down to her, but neglect the possibility that she could find all the information by her own research. I am not saying this must have been what happened, but I also think that it is nonsense to think such idea is nonsense. So how would Saki's mom know about the psycho buster if it is presumed that no human has dared to set foot into Tokyo? And more importantly how would she know of its affects towards PK users without inadvertently spreading the spore? The only possible explanation was that the knowledge of disease was passed down to Saki's mom. Yangbo said: The key point is any human party, no matter how experienced they are, do not have Koromaru's knowledge gained only with a lot of sacrifice, and whatever experience is it involves only the experience of dealing with the familiar surrounding near their village. We have already seen how the false minoshiro can run out of power, and not every human knows how to charge it with power. Also the minoshiro takes time to speak out the information and it speaks on and on.. Nothing compares to the quick wit and alert from Kiromaru. If they rely on minoshiro to inform them about the fleas probably all would have just skin and bones left. It is something far far far from a "piece of cake". With training and repeated probes, a human party may be able to gain safe passage around Tokyo, but it is not like a group of human hastily assembled without an experienced guide can just roam around there. I'll try to break this down as simple as I can. -Saki and Satoru are inexperience young adults -Kiromaru is a queerrat with no cantus -Inui is the only experienced member of the group. They were able to recover the vile... Yes Inui died, but it was because of Saki being inexperienced.. Also Kiromaru's 'knowledge' about Tokyo can easily be replaced by that of a false minoshiro. Although the time at spent in Tokyo was portrayed as an dire situation for Saki and Co, it was only the case due to their ineptitude. To put it bluntly, their group was made up of '2 noob cantus users with relatively no field experience, a rat and a babysitter'... Yangbo said: We have argued about this already. There is no evidence that psychobuster was featured in anybody's mind during the K incident. As I said, a lot of scenarios can explain why it was not used at that time. We simply did not know if the higher ups knew about it or if those higher-ups who knew it survived the fiend's rampage. I realize how it is a weapon of despair so why wasn't used on a real fiend such as K in the past when there is a high chance that the higher ups knew about it's existence... Yangbo said: Then you have either misinterpreted or misremembered the dialogue. If that is true, then you could not explain how Saki's sister being killed has to do with fear of fiend. The fact is prevention of fiend/goma is one key reason for killing kids but it does not mean that is the only reason. I'm pretty sure that the Tomoko explained to Saki that they only reason they were killing of kids for one purpose, which was to prevent fiends/karma demons.. Yangbo said: No evidence that it has to do with fiend or goma. They killed the weak and unstable because they lack the control of their cantus, thus they feared they would succumb to their cantus. Yangbo said: No evidence that it has to do with fiend or goma either. Remember fiend is where the death feedback mechanism does not work, and that is always checked during the rite of passage before they entered into the cantus school. Killing lawbreaking kids does not have to do with fiend. They also killed mischievous/lawbreaking kids, but I don't think I have to explain myself on that one. Yangbo said: But that "beef" is an imaginary one. That is my point.Finally If it is still unclear, my whole 'beef' with the current state of the series is that there is no consistency in the towns rational in the death feedback/fiend debacle in their efforts to create a world with psuedo-peace. which makes up the core of this anime... |
symbvMar 18, 2013 9:07 AM
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
Bobjones said: Thank you for bringing it up as I have missed this point. This is stressed quite often in the novel and it is quoted as a reason why even adults are not advised to venture far from the village. As Saki said a few times in the anime/novel, it is uncanny that some creatures seem to evolve just to maximize their attack power even to the point of kill by suicide. Human who faces a previously unknown creature that does it can easily be caught off-guard and get killed.I have to disagree. Cantus is a powerful offensive weapon but they are limited on the defense |
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
Then you have either misinterpreted or misremembered the dialogue. If that is true, then you could not explain how Saki's sister being killed has to do with fear of fiend. The fact is prevention of fiend/goma is one key reason for killing kids but it does not mean that is the only reason. If I'm not mistaken she explain they kill the weak 1 because they tend to become fiend? As they are weak they scare of others-emotional breakdown? And from the mirror carving its seems that her sister can't control Cantus properly. |
virtuedarknessMar 18, 2013 10:22 AM
virtuedarkness said: I guess the anime cannot provide all the fine details, but in the novel the reason she was killed was because a poor control of Cantus can easily cause interference of Cantus which can be very dangerous to all around. This interference and its danger was mentioned a couple of times in anime too, as recently as Shisei asking all human on the square not to use power when he was using his to protect them against the queerat attack. It has little to do with fiend or goma. Remember goma is a case of uncontrollable leak of cantus, not just a case of inability to use cantus properly. If I'm not mistaken she explain the kill the weak 1 because they tend to become fiend? As they are weak they scare of others-emotional breakdown? And from the mirror carving its seems that her sister can't control Cantus properly. |
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
| I don't quite see why Saki just incinerated the psychobuster/anthrax. Couldn't she just have made a strong blow of wind to protect Satoru and still infect the kid? They're just spores. Meh. |
Kellhus said: GuusWayne said: there is a limit to the suspension of disbelief And it's the fan that did it. Not the smoking porn reading rubik cube genius rape ape with a magic boat. |
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