| Episode 36 For an episode that was supposed to be emotionally impactful, this one threw too much at me for it to really resonate. Part of the problem is that we just plain don't get much in the way of explanation as to what's going on with Four. When Kamille and Char met her last episode, she was cold with them and, apparently, a very different person. She chalks that up to the Psycho Gundam's influence, though I guess it could also be that medication she's taking. Fine, whatever. Then, after she returns to herself (at least partially from sensing Kamille, though I attribute it mostly to the bath she was taking - soaking in those memories right there), she says she's a different person now. To me, at least, she doesn't seem that different right now, though she's certainly lacking some more memories, including somehow... the very drive she had to recover her own memories... what? I mean, what does she think she was driven so strongly to do when she tried to commit those war crimes in Hong Kong? I understand getting rid of memories that affect her emotional state, but you would think that would include Kamille as well. Anyway, it doesn't last because she loses herself again when she summons the Psycho Gundam. I'm also trying to understand what that blue light was coming off of her. Is this a cyber newtype thing? Just generally a newtype thing that we haven't seen? Maybe we'll learn more about it, but the number of newtype abilities just keeps ballooning. Also, now that she's dead (this time for real, I take it), I guess her spirit will haunt the series like Lalah's has... well, did anyway. No one's mentioned her in a while. Her ghost must be on vacation or something. Anyway, plot. So Kamille once again infiltrates the base. Again, wearing no disguise. I guess having them infiltrate last episode wasn't enough reason to put some guards on patrol. He finds his way to Four, they have a brief reunion before he tries to score her some drugs from her handler. That kind of works before they're confronted by Jarid, who is still on a crutch. Nonetheless, Jarid keeps up with them and follows them outside. Kamille judo throws Jarid over his shoulder and nearly to his death off the cliff. Dude has no chill. Jarid survives, though, and takes a prototype grey mobile suit out to fight Kamille, who is trying to talk Four down after she gets into the Psycho Gundam. The talking down works, but Jarid still tries to stab Kamille with a beam sword. Four gets in the way (because we might as well just have Mouar all over again) and her Psycho Gundam gets stabbed in the head. This somehow inflicts damage on Four (I don't believe the cockpit is in the head and it's unclear she's sustained any physical injuries, though the psychic connection with the mobile armor might be the reason - they never tell us). Kamille can do nothing but exit his Gundam and hold her corpse in grief. Meanwhile, Char tries to take out Jamakoff who is blasting off again, but fails. He and Amuro grab Kamille and Four and they take off. Then we get a weird moment. I get that the series is trying to finally transition into having "Quattro" fully become Char, taking on the leadership role and everything that comes with it, but it's handled so poorly. Kamille, still mired in his grief over Four, tells "Quattro" he will never call him that again, and will only hereafter refer to him as Char. I'm not sure what this has to do with Four's death, but hey, people handle grief differently. Char agrees and... he just accepts that he's fully Char again... what? So, rather than give Char a "come to Jesus" moment where he recognizes that this is the role he needs to play, or having the rest of the crew really recognize him in this way and force a change on his part, it's just Kamille, in his grief, telling him "you're Char to me now, so you and everyone else better get used to it," to which Char basically responds "yep, that tracks." Don't get me wrong, I thought it was stupid that he was still going by Quattro, but this is the weirdest reason for him to transition. We still have no idea why Char was so averse to taking on this kind of leadership role, so I guess that wasn't important. He wrestled with it ever since Commodore Blex died because... well, because. |
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| @whiteflame55 Kamille choosing that moment to decide to start calling Quattro 'Char' was such a non moment I forgot to comment on it. for some reason the writers thought the death of Four heralded the birth of Char as the leader of the AEUG, no idea why. Episode 37. Kamille and Amuro have an attempt at a philosophical debate over mans existence and the common theme of war running through history. "Without war humans would probably be extinct", hmmm, not sure I agree with that wholeheartedly although many great innovations have come from war. Then Amuro says that oldtypes forget things easily and are able to move on, so what he's saying is that newtypes are better able to learn from history, hmmm. Sounds like pretentious guff to me. Char isn't allowed to fight in his MS and says he feels like a prized clown on his way to an assembly in Dakar. Char pronounces himself as Char Aznable, son of Zeon Zum Deikun, although that would be Casval Zum Deikun, not Char Aznable, but ok. We get a shot of Sayla watching the address. We meet a nice Titan officer, Ottis, who seems to genuinely have some sense of justice and doesn't want innocent civilians hurt. Char talks about how the Titans are worse than the Zabi family and want to pollute the earth and how people should move to space. Jerid and the Titans start a fight above the city putting people in danger and get called out by Char for their actions. Not sure about the political messages here, asking everyone to leave the earth seems a bit drastic, but good to see Char and AEUG make their move. |
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| Episode 37 This episode includes another one of those strange delineations between the Titans and the Feds. Dakar is stated to be a protectorate of the Feds, requiring permission from them for even the Titan leadership to access it. I actually do feel like it's starting to come into focus (only 37 episodes in) that the Feds are really the soft power arm and the Titans are more hard power. That's an interesting dynamic, since it allows the Feds to back political movements in the Earth sphere and let the Titans handle things in space, with the former being able to put a pretty hefty amount of distance between the two. Wish we had seen more of what they chose to do with that, but I guess it's something. It doesn't really help, though, that Jarid (who is not a commander of significant note in the Titans) is able to overrule the Feds entirely just because Jamakoff made a vague statement. Feels like the Feds should be able to enforce that distance to some degree, but then again, this series seems to have a problem with actual enforcement, guards and the like. Guess I shouldn't be surprised. Similar to @23feanor, I found this line from Amuro about war ("it's ironic, but without war, we'd probably all be extinct by now") to be a little hard to take. He relates war to "the struggle for existence," which assumes that all wars are fought defensively. I guess all those colony drops, use of chemical weapons and the giant solar beam satellite weapon are defensive? This sentiment seems like cold comfort to those victims - after all, their suffering was apparently for the good of all humanity. Maybe it's just more clunky dialogue, but it feels significantly out of touch for someone like Amuro to say this, and his prejudice against oldtypes definitely doesn't help. Last I checked, newtypes are causing plenty of damage themselves. We get a brief scene where a Fed soldier pats Beltorchika, who is pretending to be a reporter, on the breast. Yep, needed some more molesting in the show. At least Ottis, a Titan soldier, comes to her rescue, showing they're not a monolith of dicks. She goes on to help Char take over an assembly meeting (again, the lack of security is just baffling - this seems like a rather important meeting and two people get in no problem). Char swoops in and starts talking about how humanity should be heading into space rather than continuing to pollute the Earth. I've got mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, it's nice to see both Char and the AEUG actually stand for something as opposed to just standing in opposition to the Titans and Fed. We've spent so much of the series wondering what their endgame is and this suggests there's actually something there, even if it's unclear whether the AEUG as a whole holds this position or how Karaba sees it. On the other hand, this is just out of left field. I don't know when they turned into an environmentalist organization, and I'm not sure how heading into space solves much, especially since we've already seen how colonies have been misused and held hostage. There may be more to the plan here, but abandoning Earth doesn't seem like a viable way to address pollution - it's just a way to spread it around more broadly in space and largely hope the Earth comes back to normal on its own. Still, everyone seems captivated. I am happy to see that he's finally embracing his whole Char-ness... or his Casval-ness? I guess he wants both the notoriety of being Char and the history of Casval, and yeah, that is a nice pairing assuming no one asks any questions about how one became the other (slight spoiler for The Origin: it's not pretty). Meanwhile, outside, Amuro gets caught up in an aerial battle, several times saying that he doesn't want a fight before proceeding to attack a number of enemies (at least he tries to prevent civilian casualties). It is pretty clear that some of the Titan pilots are willing to put people at risk to take out the AEUG's communications. By the way, they keep saying that that's their target while they're actively targeting the assembly itself. That's not targeting communications, that's trying to kill them and everyone with them. I guess this is on brand for Jarid now, dude's just a monster. Ottis, on the other hand, is not cool with this and turns traitor to stop it. New recruit for the AEUG incoming. Also, we get shots of Sayla and Kai in this episode. They're around. |
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| @23feanor Loved your comment about Char being a walking myth - this description feels spot on. Regarding Char x Reccoa, I didn't feel like Char was deliberately avoiding Reccoa (despite what Kamille accused him of). Rather, it felt like to me as though Char was just preoccupied with recent events. After all, he seemed puzzled himself why Reccoa was upset at him. And this makes sense - he does not strike me as a character who's particularly adept at navigating romantic relationships. He mostly only knows about matters of war and destruction and it's perhaps because of this that Reccoa is attracted to him - precisely because he's an unstable, dangerous character and she is attracted to danger. So much about their relationship makes sense. That said, I don't get the cactus comment either. I think a good metaphor should make you go "oh god yes, this is so apt!" once you see it. A good example would be the hedgehog's dilmma in Eva. But this one ... either I'm not seeing it, or it's just not a good metaphor. Episode 35 - 37 Argama goes to support Karaba's assault on the Kilimanjaro from orbit, but gets into a mech fight with the KKK and their ... electric yoyos lol. I'm also loving all these add on gadgets they keep coming up with to go with their suits. Fighting in Earth's orbit always adds a layer of tension to the battles, and so it also proves to be the case here as Char, takes a hit for Kamille (who's losing all his duels these days) and gets pulled into Earth's gravity well. Zeta's ship form is apparently heat resistant, which feels more convenient than realistic to me (maybe they designed it to be able to descend to earth, but they didn't really mention anthing about that till now), which allows Char to "surf" down to earth where battle is raging on Kilimanjaro. In case people didn't realise this is Africa, the show helpfully sign posts this by showing a herd of running giraffes, which I found to be amusing. Char and Kamille runs into the Psycho-Gundam and ... 4 is still alive? WTF?! So of course Kamille has to infiltrate the Kilimanjaro base to find her. Char and Kamille sneaks in via the sewage system, and runs into Jamitov, who Char seem familiar with. Shooting match ensues, and Char and Kamille find themselves trapped in 4's room. The way they get out of it is hilarious, as they simply follow an oblivious 4 out via a back door that only she can access ... whoever designed this system needs to be fired. Char and Kamille escapes, but Kamille later comes back to find 4 and this time she recognises him. There's definitely a sense of warmth and immense joy as the two are reunited, but the rest of the episode is terrible. Luckily, it's terrible in an entertaining way. First there's this hilariously cognitively dissonant scene when Jerid, who just happens to be recuperating in this exact same base, comes out in crutches and sees Kamille and 4, holding hands, skip merrily past in front of him. Then, Kamille insists on helping 4 go get medicine for her headache - which, considering he's in an enemy base, seems incredibly stupid. Predictably he gets caught, but luckily it appears he's been training with Chuck Norris while off screen, so he KOs a lab assistant via a head kick to prevent him raising alarm. Then Jerid arrives on the scene, but 4 knocks him over and she escapes with Kamille in a completely useless scene where Jerid, in a casual act of annoyance, throws a knife at them and misses. The Great Escape this is not. More hilarity ensues as the two escapes outside and descends the mountain by foot, but Jerid catches them in the car via this insane drift manoeuvre down the mountain in a move worthy of something from Initial D, only for Kamille to then promptly judo throw him off the mountain. Luckily Jerid was wearing plot armour at the time and was also imbued with plot superpower, so not only does he heroically makes it back up mountain base with his broken leg - and crutch - but he does it in time to join the battle. Jerid sees an opportunity to take out Kamille, who's doing his usual Gundam wrestling bullshit against Psycho Gundam, but 4 makes a block by putting Psycho Gundam's head in the way. As a result, 4 dies - not sure by what, since her body looked pristine - and Jerid just buggers off somewhere instead of following up his assault. Looking forward to the next time 4 turns up again. After that, we get Char gate crashing the Earth Fed's general assembly while revealing to the world that the Titans as assholes. This was one of the better episodes in recent memory, and I've not got much to say about it. A lot of what Char's talking about is to do with environmentalism, which seems very relevant today, though the solution of moving into space is not on many people's radars yet. We also see a shot of possibly-Sayla watching the conference on retro-style pocket TV. PS oh yes, the timing and motivation of Quattro becoming Char felt weird to me too. But so many ridiculous things were happening that I forgot to mention it! |
kekekeKajOct 24, 2023 7:25 AM
| Take off every SIG!! |
kekekeKaj said: I think you probably have the nub of it. I think I get thrown off by Char as every now and then he utters a sage comment that makes you think he knows people, including romantically, such as when Kamille asked why Reccoa was acting up and Char replies "you need experience to know anothers heart", as if saying he has that experience and can see what is the matter with Reccoa. But maybe I'm looking at it wrong, and he's admitting he doesn't have that experience either, and can't fathom Reccoa's unhappiness. Which would make sense given your comment. A couple of times Reccoa directly asks Char what he thinks of her, it's a definite plea for attention, and if Char really did miss these signs then he really doesn't have the best interpersonal skills. But he comes off as a fairly sharp guy. My personal take is that we have a group of people writing for Char and each of them injects something different, but they all treat him like this mythical figure and maybe want him to remain aloof and mysterious. Rather, it felt like to me as though Char was just preoccupied with recent events. After all, he seemed puzzled himself why Reccoa was upset at him. And this makes sense - he does not strike me as a character who's particularly adept at navigating romantic relationships. He mostly only knows about matters of war and destruction and it's perhaps because of this that Reccoa is attracted to him - precisely because he's an unstable, dangerous character and she is attracted to danger. So much about their relationship makes sense. Episode 38. Char and Kamille head back to space to rendezvous with the Argama. The kids get into a MS and Fa sounds pathetically grateful to be given a job and instructed by Bright to smack them both. Oh and big reveal, Reccoa has defected to the Titans, in the mirror move of Emma's defection from the Titans to the AEUG. Reccoa says her defection wasn't motivated by politics, but because she had to "follow her heart", so guessing it's Paptimus then. She then confirms that she's attracted to strong men like Yasan and Paptimus, goes to @kekekeKaj's point that she's attracted to dangerous powerful men looking for a thrill. Fa goes out in a MS again and gets blown up, ejecting at the last minute. And yeah the AEUG's move to become an environmental group came out of leftfield. As you both mentioned, there are lots of ways to resolve the problems on earth, retreating to space seems a bit extreme. Plus the African plains near Kilimanjaro looked lush and full of life a couple of episodes ago. |
23feanorOct 25, 2023 1:12 AM
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| @23feanor @kekekeKaj I appreciate both of your thoughts on the Char x Reccoa relationship, and honestly, I prefer to believe that they were going that deep with it. Having Char be someone who really just doesn't have the experience or capacity to understand others in the way he knows he should would be a very interesting turn for the character, sort of having his mystique work against him by having him feel very much apart. I'm not sure that's what the writers were going for, but even if not, that's going to be my headcanon. Episode 38 Just two episodes ago, Kamille said he would never call Char "Quattro" again, but now he's back to calling him that because... I guess he's not used to calling him Char? I may not have liked the reason he did it, but at the very least, pick a lane and stick with it. Char and Kamille make it into space where the Argama is under assault from the Titans (Yazan's involved) and losing badly. Faa gets denied access to a mobile suit because.. I guess Bright thinks she's too important to risk in a firefight? And now the kids are trying to take off with a mobile suit. At this point, I just choose to find the complete lack of security positively hilarious. No one really wants to win this war, they just want the slapstick. @23feanor I interpreted Bright's suggestion that she go round up the kids as subtext for "alright, you can take the mobile suit out for a spin." Her overjoyed response felt a bit much, and her proceeding to immediately lose in battle, having to eject and be saved by Kamille, seems to just underscore the writers saying "see, we let her try again and she's still a failure; oh well, back to childcare!" And yeah, Reccoa defected back to the Titans. I had to remind myself that, yes, no one onboard the Argama actually knows she survived the past episode. So it's unclear whether she is still spying for the AEUG or really did just turn tail. My guess is still the former. I don't think she's fallen for Paptimus. She did prevent them from dying a horrible death from Char's firing his big laser, but that was partially self-preservation. I hope it's not just that she's shifted over for the sole purpose of finding a thrill. |
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| Episodes 38 - 39 Kamille and Char gets fired off back into space from Karaba's Garuda as Titans attack. Jerid is desperate to stop them, but he gets knocked away as he got too close to the rocket's plume. Amusingly, Amuro does the mecha battle's equivalence of kicking a man while he's down by shooting Jerid as he's falling. Yep, unlike Kamille, he's still got it! Kamille and Char arrives in space in time to see Argama engaged in battle against Captain Zombie's forces led by Yazan. In the Argama, the lack of security results in a new peak of absurdity as the kids managed to get inside Fa's MS. Given the serie's track record I was half expecting them to fly out with the Gundam, but Fa arrives in time to correct them and fly out herself, possibly for the last time. She actually does well for once, saving Apolly from death-by-electric-yoyos (it's good to see a gimmicky weapon being re-used for once) before running into trouble herself. Luckily, she's saved by the timely arrival of Kamille and Char. Kamille and Char arrives in a rather strange fashion, with Kamille giving Char a ride so they can get there faster. I'm not a physicist, but would that actually work? Wouldn't it be both slower and more energy intensive for Kamille to take Char there than just have Kamille fly there himself and Char arriving when he can? Or is this because Char is the superior pilot and it would be more beneficial to get him to the battlefield asap? But anyway, Char gets there in time and gets the Argama to launch his mega bazooka, with which he fires at Captain Zombie's flagship. On the flagship, Reccoa senses a disturbance in the force (giving weight to @whiteflame55 's latent newtype theory), and gets the flagship to retreat, avoiding a direct hit. It was bittersweet for Fa to have what might be her last taste of being a pilot. The show has made it clear that's not where her talents lie. I think it'd actually be more interesting if they made it so that she does have potential to be a pilot, as then there'd be more of a dilemma whether to send her out or to protect her as the surrogate mother to the kids. The next episode is like a holiday episode, with Kamille and Fa taking the kids to a resort colony, where they ran into Rosamia. It took me a while to remember who she was, but I eventually remembered that she's the first cyber newtype we encounter in Zeta back when Kamille's on Earth in around episode 15. At the time she got out in an escape pod just before her MS exploded, but it looked like she was then caught by the explosion and it wasn't clear whether she got killed or not. Apparently she didn't, but it's a bit of a mystery where she's been since then. She then thinks Kamille is her brother, with the photo to prove it, raising the possibility that Kamille was adopted. I wonder if the date of the colony drop matches Kamille's birth date. Kamille seemed to take the news awfully calmly ... or perhaps he just enjoy having Rosamia hang off his arm constantly. Fa's not happy, sensing incoming wincest potential to Kamille's harem. Then completely randomly, Mineva just joins them on the boat. Not quite sure what happened. Maybe she was the one who threw a volley ball into the water before then? Feels like a crucial connecting scene was accidentally edited out or something. Char then battles with rogue Titan MS and ends up destroying half the colony lol. Oh yeah and Bask has resurfaced with all his facial and neck muscles still bulging. Not sure where he's been up until now. I'd completely forgot about him. |
kekekeKajOct 25, 2023 2:32 PM
| Take off every SIG!! |
| Episode 39. Bask is back on the scene and seems he doesn't like Paptimus. Bask is given a ship, one Paptimus was on, but not the Jupitris (which I think Paptimus brought with him from Jupiter), and is tasked by Jamakov to eliminate the AEUG once and for all. Bask sends Rosamia, had to remind myself who she was, to infiltrate side 13. Ofc she bumps into Kamille, Faa and then kids, plus Emma, who are taking a leisurely jaunt, because why not. Rosamia thinks Kamille may be her lost brother, is this Titan brain washing or could it be possible? She thinks she's his little sister, which would make her under 17, smells like a Titan plot to me. Char fights some Titan MS who shoot the colony walls breaching them risking the people inside. Char follows them into the colony interior and takes them out. The kids run into Minerva Zabi, who just happens to be staying next to the lake. Char gets hauled off to the police station and Rosamia ends up following Kamille onto the Argama. |
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| So, on a completely unrelated note, some of you may have heard about the mass shooting that took place in southern Maine in the US, specifically the city of Lewiston. This one hit close to home, literally: my wife's family lives in Auburn, which is effectively side-by-side with Lewiston. One of the shootings happened at a bowling alley located right next door to where my wife and I had our wedding rehearsal dinner. My father-in-law was on lockdown until midnight last night. So... yeah, not a great night. Thankfully, all of our friends and family are OK. Episode 39 Yep, there's Bask again. Was wondering when he'd come back on the scene. He's been one of the more interesting villains of the series, so having him be absent from much of the narrative has been pretty disappointing. He definitely doesn't like Paptimus, but then again, who does? Maybe Reccoa, I guess. Faa and Kamille are out with the kids exploring some random colony when they just so happen to run into another newtype (likely a cyber newtype) named Rosamia Badam. I do recall her showing up and unceremoniously exiting the series in an explosion. We all know how well those work at killing people (RIP Four... again...). Now, she thinks Kamille is her brother, though he doesn't recognize her. Yeah, this is fishy. The fact that she has photographic evidence is somewhat telling, but they've got to have some way to doctor photos, so this seems to be an effort to make her believe that they're siblings so that she can get in with him and discover AEUG secrets. Faa is threatened by her, so either she doesn't believe she's his sister, or she's nervous that Kamille is into incest. Meanwhile, Char has a fight with two Titan pilots who seem perfectly fine blowing holes in the outside of a neutral colony. I guess when your team has already been willing to inflict chemical warfare and drop colonies to get their way, this is really not that bad. Thankfully, Char does a pretty decent job patching the holes (at least one of them) with his Spider-Man webbing, though he's still partially responsible for the fighting and damage, so he gets taken into custody by the end of the battle. Oh, and Haman and Minerva Zabi are here, like they've arrived on cue for no reason at all. |
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| @whiteflame55 glad you're wife's family is all ok. We have knife crime here (school girl got stabbed on a morning school bus just the other week), but luckily no guns. Living in a country full of trigger happy people must be really tough. There are many things I love about America, you're gun culture isn't one of them. |
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Reply to 23feanor
@whiteflame55 glad you're wife's family is all ok. We have knife crime here (school girl got stabbed on a morning school bus just the other week), but luckily no guns. Living in a country full of trigger happy people must be really tough. There are many things I love about America, you're gun culture isn't one of them.
| I appreciate it, and completely agree. |
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| @whiteflame55 I haven't heard of the mass shooting. While I don't follow news that closely it seems to me these mass shootings are like a semi-regular event over in the US so don't often get reported over the pond unless the casualty count is especially high. Glad to hear your family is unharmed! |
| Take off every SIG!! |
| Episode 40. We get an ominous opening statement "no one guessed the impact meeting Rosamia would have on Kamille", bit like the opening narration in LotGH where it feels like a historian from the future is passing comment on events from years gone by, by the benefit of hindsight. The AEUG team on Argama learn that Gryps, Titan base, has been turned into a giant laser, and aiming to hit the lunar bases. AEUG need to stop it. Sometimes these stories feel so counter to the semi-serious nature gundam tries to create. Why would Bright, Char, Kamille or any of the AEUG members on board Argama agree to bring on board a random civilian because she claims to be Kamille's sister? After so many sneaky Titan plots you think they'd be more on guard. And it's usually some sort of new or cybertype mcguffin. Paptimus tells Reccoa that her heart was wounded and none of the men aboard the Argama were sensitive enough, so... she had to defect. Wow this guy is sharp. Seems like it's not so much a physical charm, but an emotional one that Paptimus uses to woo Reccoa, telling her she can relax, recover and breathe here with him. And if he lies she can pierce his heart. Reccoa comes across like a woman from a early 1920/30/40's film, who swoons when a man says something nice to her. Bask sends Reccoa out in a MS and wants to uncover what Paptimus's true intentions are. Reccoa spots the AEUG MS and reports it, she ends up facing off against Emma, who's surprised she's still alive. Reccoa and Kamille stop fighting and have a chat. Is Reccoa a thrill seeker, does she just want a chance to prove herself to her superiors as she tells Kamille, or is that she couldn't get any affection from the man in her life as she also tells Kamile "there's nothing for me on the Argama". After their chat, I'm not sure, there's a range of motivations being conveyed and doesn't chime. Putting it down to clunky dialogue. I thought the thrill seeking aspect was a good fit for her but the move to the Titans, and involvement with Paptimus, has muddied her character writing imo. Kamille gets corrected by Emma. Emma says Reccoa followed her emotions in defecting to the Titans, whereas she followed her sense of justice and reason when she herself defected the other way she leaves implied. I'm guessing Fa doesn't know anything about Four, as her interactions with Kamille before and after he met Four, for the second time, haven't changed one bit. Kamille can't have been that upset then. The Titans test fire their new colony laser, shooting a hole in a colony in side 2. Bask laughs like a villain and says that now the space colonies and neutral sides won't defy the Tiatns authority. |
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kekekeKaj said: @whiteflame55 I haven't heard of the mass shooting. While I don't follow news that closely it seems to me these mass shootings are like a semi-regular event over in the US so don't often get reported over the pond unless the casualty count is especially high. Glad to hear your family is unharmed! Yeah, they come so often that even here that I'm not surprised. Keeping track of them all is just an exercise in depression. Episode 40 Yeah, that ominous premonition from the narrator at the beginning is something new. Portends some pretty big happenings as a result of Rosamia in the coming episodes. Speaking of whom, Rosamia behaves like a child early in the episode, displaying very negative responses to both Emma, specifically, and doctors, generally. The former is a head-scratcher, since she says she believes Emma will take Kamille away from her, while the latter makes some sense given what we know about how cyber newtypes are treated. Still, she wants to get in the robot and fight when it's called for. As for why they let her onboard and let her run around unchecked, I'm just at the point where I'm thinking that this might as well happen. No one seems to care about security. These are the same people who let a pair of kids get into and begin to a pilot a mobile suit. This is all just silly now. Char's out of jail in record time, apparently. No lasting consequences. I'm in a similar boat to @23feanor about what the hell Reccoa's feeling. Would love if she could just pick a lane and stick to it. Paptimus talking about how she feels was potentially interesting, but giving the perspective that she feels like she had to be "the strong woman" onboard the Argama is kind of... odd. Not like there aren't other women on board who are competent pilots... except Faa apparently, says everyone. It's not like the time she's spending with the Titans is a vacation, but he still treats it as a respite for her. Not sure why she buys into that. Not sure what she was expecting from the Titans in general. When they use that giant laser to shoot a hole in Colony 18, all I could think was that that's on brand for them now. They were literally blowing holes in colonies just last episode, and she's been privy to their efforts to gas whole colonies. Why did she think defecting to them would change that? She also laments at the end of the episode that she can't go back to the AEUG, but again, why? They've been taking defectors left right and center, even when they've defected multiple times. In general, her behavior is really weighing down the episode. She's sent out by Bask as a test of sorts, starts out by not reporting the first mobile suit she sees hiding behind a fake asteroid before choosing to report them after seeing the second. She faces off briefly against Emma, which goes nowhere, before getting into a brief scuffle with Kamille and then talking to him face-to-face. She believes there's nothing for her on the Argama, claiming that he'll understand why she did this someday before leaving him behind, both of them in tears. She does let him know about the laser, though. So... let me get this straight. She defected at least in part because of her romantic distance from Char. Fine. She's wavering on that defection, though, clearly unwilling to commit to their acts even when she's actively making it simpler for them to commit massive war crimes. Whatever. She then claims that Kamille will understand all this someday. I don't understand it. No one does. Maybe this could all be cleared up if the very clunky dialogue was streamlined somehow. As for the firing of the colony laser, I still don't get what the Titans are trying to accomplish militarily. If their goal is to be evil, then great job. If their goal is to win hearts and minds... better luck next time. Nearly destroying a neutral colony won't do that. |
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| Episodes 40 - 41 "I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced." Though not quite on the level of a planet being destroyed, the shit really starts hitting the fan for the people living on colonies in these two episodes. Despite the usual blunders we've all come to expect from Zeta Gundam, I don't regard these episodes as without merit; there are some interesting scenes and dialogues that made good food for thought. (I'm gonna go deep with this one, so this might get a bit long - apologies in advance for the braindump) Firstly, we have Reccoa's story intertwining with Kamille's which for me is one of the most fascinating character interplays in this series (admittedly this is not saying much). As @23feanor mentioned, Scirocco intuits the reason for Reccoa's defection. Say what you want about Scirocco's womanising ways, but in terms of EQ the difference between him and Char is as clear as day. I'm not sure how much of this is down to his newtype powers. For a while I also could not fathom Reccoa's motivation for defection - Char giving her the cold shoulder does not seem like a very serious reason - but I think there is one lens through which it does sort of make sense: her feeling of loneliness on the Argama may not be THE reason for her defection, but when you combine that with the theory that Scirocco was using his womanising newtype powers to draw her to him, then it might be enough of a tipping point for her. It's like she's under a semi-hypnotised state. Once she has gone over, now there's some cognitive dissonance as she can't understand herself why she's gone over (as it is somewhat out of character if it wasn't for Scirocco), so now she starts lying to herself, coming up with excuses why she's now with the Titans, and this is why she still seems so indecisive - because she's still not completely convinced herself that she's done the right thing. I've just been listening to a podcast on cognitive dissonance, and this case fits so well ... admittedly the writers probably wasn't thinking so deeply about it, but it fits lol. Sadly, I don't hold out much hope for the writers clarifying whether Scirocco did use his powers to draw her in. Basks then sends out Reccoa on an operation - not to test Reccoa's loyalty primarily, but in order to try and figure out what Scirocco is thinking (this doesn't make any sense to me, but whatever) - where she runs into Kamille. Reccoa ends up flying into a rock as she was so distracted. She then exits the Gundam in her spacesuit and had a face-to-face with Kamille. Kamille couldn't understand why Reccoa defected, and Reccoa could only make the excuse that it's for complicated adult reasons. There's a genuinely heartbreaking moment when Kamille admitted that he may not be good enough for her, but he can still protect her, which moves them both to tears - and I'll admit, it nearly did for me too! I think that's one of the most heartfelt scenes I've come across in all of Gundam. Reccoa then flies back into her mobile suit and takes off, which is a bit of a WTF moment as I thought she only came out because her suit was broken. Maybe she just needed to take a spacewalk and clear her head. And to wrap it up, Kamille goes back and gets debriefed, with the Argama command making the "adult" decision to hide the encounter with Reccoa. They don't say why, but it's not hard to come up with some potential explanations, for example it's more convenient to report Reccoa as KIA rather than trying to explain why she defected and having to deal with the repercussions (I doubt any of them want Wong to come and correct them). They may also be trying to protect Kamille who came face to face with a traitor and just let her fly away. Kamille exits the room and seeks comfort with Fa, complimenting her (perhaps with a hint of yearning sadness) "You're the only one who has the face of a child". Ooof. For me that really hits hard after the events of this episode. I think the writing really shines in places regarding Kamille's coming of age story. I love how the themes of Kamille running into problems with adult romances and adult politics is interwoven with the plot progression to make everything work simultaneously on multiple levels. With all that Kamille has experienced, he can no longer see everything as simple and straight forward with the innocence of Fa, but he also still can't comprehend the world of adults, and is caught between the two stages. Doesn't this so aptly sum up the experience of being a teenager? And then Gryps 2 fires a giant laser and nearly destroys a colony. Apparently it didn't do enough damage to satisfy Bask, who proceeds to order another gas attack, and so they go and load up another "DANGAR" cannister (but thanks to inconsistent animation, it's only spelt incorrectly some of the time). Bask drops the following bombshell on an obviously reluctant Reccoa after ordering her to lead the operation: "We're not a group of killers. Don't forget that we're wishing for peace to arrive as soon as possible." I wonder if that's a reference to the rationale behind the dropping of the atomic bombs on Japan. I'm reminded of Malcolm Gladwell talking about his research into WW2's bomber mafia. He was saying he started off thinking the those military commanders were just cruel, hard men who cared little for the loss of life, but as he dived deeper into the sources he switched over to the opposite opinion - that they were deeply moralistic, and many brutal decisions were agonisingly made on the genuinely held belief that it would in the long run save more lives by frontloading the casualties. I kinda wish they made Bask less villainous so that the moralistic force behind his statement were more persuasive, but perhaps that is as intended to make his statement seem vacuous. That said, if Bask is just plainly villanous, then it makes no sense for him to utter that line in the first place - it's not like he has a strong need or motivation to explain himself to Reccoa. Meanwhile, on the Argama, they've now let Rosamia on board because why not. She's now known as "Rosammy" and is infantile to the point where people are asking the kids to baby sit her. I feel like it's a common anime trope for psycho killer girls to have a cute, innocent, moe side. To give Zeta the benefit of the doubt, it's old enough that it may have kick started the trope. Argama command are trying to get Rosammy checked to see if she's a cyber newtype. It took me a while before I realise this made no sense: WE, the audience, know she's a cyber newtype because we've seen her previously, but why should the Argama crew suspect it? But anyway, the doctor has trouble persuading Rosammy to take the test - possibly because Rosammy's got repressed memories of being experimented on - but eventually she is persuaded, after which we get a boatload of fanservice and innuendo. This NSFW screenshot speaks for itself: After the mobile suit squadron got scrambled to stop the gassing operation, we get a huge face palm sequence where the kids persuade Rosammy - who is mentally even younger than them - to steal a mobile suit. I'm beginning to suspect the lack of security is a deliberate running joke by the writers. No one makes a big deal of this, but apparently Fa saving Apolly has earned her a reprieve and she's back in the mobile suit squadron. I'm glad, as this does indicate that she wasn't allowed out before because she sucked, rather than commanders shoehorning her to a motherly role. But they arrive too late to stop the dangarous gas from being deployed. At the point of deployment Kamille and others all sense a disturbance in the force. Kamille encounters Reccoa again and they have another conversation about Kamille not understanding adults. Then Char turns up to try and kill Reccoa ... and finds he just could not do it, and Reccoa makes the bold claim that she's destined to be the one to end the red comet - that could be an interesting twist if it comes to pass. Kamille and Rosammy both enter the gassed colony to find bodies everywhere. Rosammy, in her mental instability, mistakes a dead child for one of the kids on Argama - I guess this is why they keep them on the ship: they're useful as plot devices. Kamille goes berserk and starts killing Titans MS. The destruction causes Rosammy to utter the "sky is falling" and then her mission memories come flooding back. Rosammy talked about the sky falling before and I've kinda just dismissed it as insane ramblings BUT I've just realised while writing this post that - assuming her origin story isn't made up - she might be referring to her childhood memories. It might even be the infamous colony drop she's remembering! Rosammy tries to kill Kamille and Kamille does not fight back. Emma turns up and tries to kill Rosammy but couldn't. Char tries to kill Reccoa and couldn't. Reccoa tries to kill Char but is ordered to escort Rosamia back (don't ask me how Titans suddenly know who she is). Kamille tries to chase after Rosammy but is blocked by Emma. Kamille is distraught; everyone else is glum, except, rather fittingly, fa, who's glad they got rid of Rosammy. Being an adult is hard work. |
| Take off every SIG!! |
| @kekekeKaj you make some interesting points about Kamille's exposure to adults and having to adapt due to his role. The crummy writing has kind of ruined my ability to get emotionally involved so didn't feel anything watching the scene between Kamille and Reccoa when they were both crying, but can understand your sentiment. Given Reccoa's backstory as an insurgent fighter, it does seem plausible that she's tired of fighting, and not having much of an ideological reason for fighting as she herself mentioned, she wanted a normal life, maybe a family, but picking Char wasn't very smart if that's the case. So she seeks out danger, trying to prove herself, and then Char pulls away from her, leaving her bereft of a direction in life, and then comes Paptimus's jedi mind trick, pulling her towards him. It doesn't exactly makes sense, but I buy it. Episode 41. I just can't get over the fact that the Argama, a military vessel, took on board a complete stranger who claims she's Kamille's sister. Surely someone on board must think "hey this sounds like another Titan plot", which is maybe why they're checking her for cyber newtype powers. It makes the whole plot with Rosamia being on board utterly ridiculous to me. Recccoa is sent out to prove herself again, this time gassing another colony. On Bask's comment about killing people through chemical weapons, to save future bloodshed, the show doesn't have the writing quality to pull off such a nuanced angle. I remember watching the History shows about Arthur Bomber Harris and the moral dilemmas the Allied forces went through when bombing Germany (strategic pin point bombing vs carpet bombing) and it's such a difficult issue. Gundam just drops this line out of nowhere. Rosammy steals a MS because of course she does, aided by the kids. She switches from infantile to MS pilot hijacking a gundam in a heartbeat. Reccoa seems to finally be embracing her role as a Titan and lays into the AEUG members during the fighting. Oh now Rosamia gets her memories back and tries to kill Kamille. So dumb and manufactured, even worse that kamille tries to save her. |
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| @23feanor @kekekeKaj I have a similar perspective regarding both Kamille’s emotional journey and Reccoa’s, in that it’s rather difficult to take the former seriously because the lessons he’s being taught just come off as too poorly explained for anyone to reasonably process and the latter, while it might be explained in part by Paptimus’s Jedi mind trick, is too muddled for me to really get behind so far. I can put the pieces together if I take the broad strokes of what’s happening, but how it has executed on these storylines just doesn’t work for me. Episode 41 It’s hard to take Rosamia’s story all that seriously for much of this episode, especially when the show seems more interested in fanservice. She flashes her chest in a checkup because… I guess she thinks like a child, and the series likes doing this, though they make the strange choice of only showing her nipples some of the time, as though they only exist up close. I know this is emphasizing her psychological state, but seems like that could have been done without the partial female nudity. She even wants to take the kids out in a mobile suit to help him in battle. For once, the crew of the Argama takes this kind of seriously, with the doctor and Char running around after them. She hot wires a mobile suit anyway because why not, and Char ends up chasing her outside the ship. Reccoa is starting to have doubts as she’s tasked with helping do more war crimes. Literally the same crime she watched the Titans try to commit before, but fine. She does seem to hope that the AEUG will intervene before she can do it. They don’t, and she authorizes mass murder from the “DANGAR” tank. Emma also gives some indication that she’s a newtype since she can sense the deaths of all those people. Reccoa basically blames the AEUG for not stopping her rather than taking responsibility for her actions - I guess that’s a coping mechanism, albeit a pretty weak one. There’s a particularly depressing scene where Rosamia tries desperately to wake a child’s corpse. Dark. Kamille goes ham after this, taking out multiple Titan mobile suits, before Rosamia does her obvious heel turn, attacking Kamille. So she’s got some memory back somehow. Reccoa and Char finally encounter one another on the battlefield, though we don’t see much of the battle. She eventually takes off with Rosamia back to safety, with Char unable to bring himself to shoot her down. |
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whiteflame55 said: Think you've summarised my feelings well. We can kind of put together Reccoa's actions but only after pondering what she's doing and hashing it out in these discussions, something that shouldn't be necessary if the script writers did a better job.I can put the pieces together if I take the broad strokes of what’s happening, but how it has executed on these storylines just doesn’t work for me. Episode 42. The AEUG crew asks the doctor about Rosammy and her cyber newtype powers, then Char says something strange "if we wait for nature to create newtypes the earth will be destroyed", are newtypes the saviour of the earth now? Don't get this line of thinking. Are oldtypes not capable of peace and sustainability when it comes to their stewardship of the earth? In Char's view clearly not. The AEUG send out everyone in MS, including Fa and Katz to combat the Titans and prevent them gassing another colony. Rosammy fights because she thinks the zeta made the sky fall on her family (colony drop), which must be brainwashing as the zeta didn't exist when the first colony drop happened. Kamille talks Rosammy down to a lush pasture and they talk. Char goes into colony 13, where Kamille and Rosammy are talking and discovers Minerva Zabi has been taken by Haman. Another cyber newtypes appears, Gaetz, causing Rosammy to revert to her older self, and attack Kamille. This episode was titled 'Goodbye Rosamia', but she's still here. This ep was all about woo woo newtype powers and bored me tbh. Kamille's anguish seems so stupid to me given the way Rosammy slipped into his life unchecked. |
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| Episode 42 Not too much to add. Thought the title portended Rosamia’s exit from the series, but I guess it’s just Kamille having to come to terms with the fact that she’s chosen to side against him. Well, at least one of her personalities have. It seems similar to what was going on with Four where she had a human side and a side largely under the control of the Psycho Gundam. Given how childish the former side has behaved, it seems she hasn’t spent much time with that one. Maybe that’s partially been her choice due to the trauma of the colony drop. It does seem a bit odd to me just how attached Kamille has grown to Rosamia so quickly. It hasn’t been that long since she was left on the Argama’s doorstep. Maybe he was just that hungry for a familial relationship after his parents died? That’s my headcanon anyway. I don’t get that line from Char, either. Admittedly, he’s done a lot over this series and the previous one to tout the importance of newtypes, but it does seem a bit absurd to say that taking the time to wait for them to occur naturally will lead to the destruction of the Earth. I could give him the benefit of the doubt and say this is some vision he got when he was with Lalah, but she hasn’t come up again in ages, and the mentality that cyber newtypes will save the Earth doesn’t really jive with what we’ve seen in this series. They’re usually pretty destructive. And hey, that’s Katz in a mobile suit. Almost forgot he was still here. And yeah, lots of newtype stuff. There’s been a lot of that in this series and the more newtypes get added, the more noisy it becomes. |
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| Episode 43. The Granada mayor orders the Argama to try and sway Haman Kan over to their side to jointly destroy the Titans colony laser. Fa and Katz object and get shut in the brig, how long till they escape I wonder. Char humbles himself and begs Haman for help in destroying the colony laser, to which she agrees. The AEUG attack from the front giving Haman and her ship a chance to shoot the laser. Fa and Katz join the battle. Haman keeps her word and disables the colony laser. |
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| Episode 43 So the Titans are trying once again to destroy Granada, this time with their big ass laser (seriously, what did Granada do to them that they feel this intense need to destroy it?). The AEUG is ordered to work with Axis to stop it, making the title “Haman’s Victory” cryptic. Who will that victory align with? Most likely at least Paptimus. Kamille’s moody due to Rosamia, and both Katz and Faa (the former dodging a patented Bright slap - inconceivable!) have big problems with the coming negotiations with Haman, saying that it’s no different from gassing a colony… what? So this is like a war crime now? If we got more history on what the Axis has been up to, I might understand this better, but it makes very little sense up to this point. They also don’t want to fight to destroy the laser when given the chance, which seems odd. You’d think that stopping the destruction of a city would get everyone on board. They really do bet it all on this, sending in Kamille and the Zeta Gundam to negotiate. Not sure why Kamille had to go specifically, given his current emotional state. Haman comes with him back to the Argama in force, her mobile suit looking quite the sight. Eventually, we get some of the reasons why the Axis is so dangerous. They’re threatening to nuke the Earth if their legitimacy is not recognized. So yeah, war crimes. The sponsors of the AEUG are also willing to give the Axis Side 3, so they’d have a substantial colony set at their disposal. Nice to see Char having to humble himself here, felt like it was a struggle for him. The fight looks like it should be huge and multifaceted, with Haman trying to just disable the colony laser so they can capture it for their own use. They refuse to let Char go for some reason, and Faa and Katz eventually go because… I guess now they realize they need to send out everyone except one of their best pilots? Anyway, Axis successfully hits Grips 2, planning to pretend they were aiming for the Argama. Bask wants to go after Axis, but can’t. Char goes over to the Axis ship to give thanks, putting the AEUG in their unwilling thrall for the time being (doubt it’ll last). So yes, it seems this really is Haman’s victory, and it certainly seems to put Char in a bad place emotionally. |
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| @23feanor @whiteflame55 I get your sentiments: there are also parts of Zeta which I think kinda make sense at an intellectual level, but is hard for me to feel convinced emotionally - Reccoa's reasons for defection being a big one. With Kamille's coming of age themes I thought it was quite well done on Kamille's side, even if what's happening on the other side of the exchange doesn't quite make sense - the complexity of adulthood is real enough (despite the poor examples), and his reactions feel real enough, and that's enough for me to get on board with his development. But yes I totally understand why it doesn't work for everyone! Episodes 42 - 43 I've not got much to say about these couple of episodes. Rosammy gets a new mecha tailored to her skillz and it gets used in another clash between Titans and AEUG. From the exchange between Rosammy and Kamille, it seems like the Rosammy's memories of her brother is not made up, as she still thinks Kamille is her brother, even though she's got her Titans mission memories back. The two ends up having a nice quiet chat in the meadows while battle raged outside the colony. A competently directed show may be able to successfully juxtapose the two scenes, but it's beyond Zeta Gundam to do so. Regarding Kamille's anguish at Rosammy leaving ... I think you guys are underestimating how attractive of the prospect of wincest in his harem is! XD On a more serious note, I think the context also plays a role here: this is straight on the heels of Reccoa leaving, and then before that 4's death (twice!), so emotionally he might be a bit raw as he's witnessing the decimation of his harem. And also perhaps he's half convinced Rosammy really is family, though if the writers wanted to show that they should really have shown Kamille take the claim more seriously and do some research etc. AEUG decides to ask for help from Axis destroying Gryps 2. Having had time to digest things, this time Char was able to stay calm and even humbles himself in front of Haman. Haman agrees to help in exchange for revival of Zabi, some territory and all that. Strangely this is then framed afterwards by Haman as AEUG getting absorbed into Axis as a military wing or something like that - not sure Char and co would have agreed to these terms! Haman does end up carry out the backstabbing, though leaving it late to let the two sides wound each other as much as possible. She also doesn't completely destroy Gryps 2, leaving the door open to later claim it for Axis. Very cunning plan. I think maybe Char's now too important risk in combat after becoming the face of AEUG? That said, he took part in combat in the episodes before, so who knows. By the way, this show has some really nice designs, like Haman's bug-like mobile suit, that repair ship La Vien Rose or something, amongst others. |
kekekeKajOct 30, 2023 4:09 PM
| Take off every SIG!! |
| Failed my driving test yday so feeling a bit sorry for myself and dispirited. No worries, a good ol episode of gundam always cheers me up, lol. Episode 44. We're coming into the final phase of the show and honestly no idea where the show is going. Assuming Bask will be defeated, but will it mean the end of the Titans and Jamakov? Will the Feds go back to using gundam MS instead of old zeon MS? So Haman is meeting Jamakov, are the Titans really believing that she missed the Argama and hit the colony laser? At least they do appear reasonably suspicious. Paptimus is back and going with Reccoa to the Gate of Zedan, formerly the Zeon fortress of Abauqu. This causes Sarah to become jealous and head out on her own to face off against the Argama. Kamille trying to save every newtype or cyber newtype woman he comes across has gotten stale. I get he lost his mum, dad, and then Four, but every single woman he meets he wants to save. Haman tries to take out Jamakov, but fails. Haman intends to strike the Gate of Zedan with something from an asteroid, a laser perhaps, or maybe send the asteroid into the fortress? Jarid clashes with Kamille. Sarah tries to interfere with Kamille when he's piloting the zeta. Pure idiocy, why the hell did he bring her into his cockpit, she's the enemy. Kamille later says he can't kill in cold blood, well don't kill her then but don't take her with you when you're about to fight. |
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| @23feanor Sorry to hear it. I failed my driver’s test a few times, so I feel your pain. Don’t give up! @kekekeKaj I’ve found reasons to appreciate Kamille’s development more than anyone else’s in the show so far. Considering just how far he has come since the beginning of the series and, unfortunately, how low the standard is from some of the other characters, he’s a pretty big standout for me. Wasn’t expecting to like him from the start, but here we are. I do also understand that he’s rather emotionally vulnerable at the moment, but his relationship with Rosamia has felt pretty odd in general. Glomming onto every woman who shows him affection just feels off, even if it’s somewhat justified by his experiences so far, since it just makes all of them feel interchangeable for him. Episode 44 Despite what happened and Jarid’s reservations, the Titans decide to keep trying to work with Haman and the Axis. This becomes a game of treachery, with both sides threatening each other and Jarid trying to capture Haman with… some weird wrist-mounted light rope? Seriously, when did the technology in this show become everything Spider-Man? Haman has an earring full of cyanide and she’s not afraid to use it, which she does before getting the hell out of there and starting a full on battle with the Titans using the AEUG to assist. Katz is trying to help out otherwise he might be forgotten. Oh poor boy, this show long since forgot about you. He does become the resident “we can’t trust the Zabis” voice on the Argama, so I guess rabble rousing is about the best we can expect. Speaking of returns to characters that vanished off the map for a while, Sarah’s back in the picture following Paptimus’s orders with some reservations, though like Reccoa before her, she seems desperate to prove herself for… reasons. See, this is why letting a character fall into the background for so long, only to bring them back into the story and give them distinct motivations, doesn’t really work. Sarah’s always worked for Paptimus, but hasn’t shown this kind of reckless dedication before. Why now? It does give us a pretty decent fake out by Kamille (who somehow has his suit walking without him in it) and an effort by him to once again try to get a love interest to see the light. Hasn’t worked before, so try, try again I suppose (this is his third attempt on Sarah, by my count). So he takes her into custody (second time) and joins the battle against the Titans with her as his hostage. Love how she says that Haman will betray them - it’s not like the Titans are offering anything, so they’ve pretty much driven them to join with Axis. Katz joins the fight as well, but only after hearing Sarah’s voice because… I guess that’s enough reason for him to fight with the Zabis on their side? Don’t know how that resolves his issues with fighting for the Zabis, but oh well. The fight is initially pretty interesting. Haman deploys some fake asteroids that release cables, destroying some Titan mobile suits. Jarid joins the battle in a new mobile suit that does a great deal of work before the AEUG arrives. He fights Kamille, though Sarah nearly gets them both killed while Jarid does a great deal of damage to the Axis. Yeah, I have no clue why Kamille would take her into the cockpit of his Gundam or let her have free rein therein, pretty shortsighted. Sarah tried to convince Katz to take out the Gwadan. Thankfully, he’s not that easy to convince, and instead manages to force Jarid into a retreat just as Kamille manages to knock Sarah unconscious. Finally, Sarah is put in cuffs and confined. Not sure why there are apparently no guards again, or why Katz is allowed to meet her - he was the one responsible for releasing her the first time she was onboard. |
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| @23feanor Sorry to hear you failed your test. I've failed several times before I managed to pass too. If you're having trouble with manual, consider switching to an automatic like most of the rest of the world. It's so much easier (though I still failed several times lol). Episode 44 - 45 Lots of things happening as the show builds up to its climax, but it's all very much a mixed bag. Haman goes to meet Jamitov and both sides prepare for treachery. Reccoa seems to have replaced Sarah at the top of Scirocco's harem as Scirocco opts to send Sarah out as a decoy while keeping Reccoa close. I think the decoy is to delay AEUG so that they don't interrupt the meeting? At the meeting, Haman tries to assassinate Jamitov while Jerid tries to assassinate Haman. Both fail. Kamille tangles with Sarah both in the mobile suit and out of it, and eventually captures her (via some apparent wizardry), saying that he doesn't want to kill anyone. This is after he's been blowing up enemy mobile suits left and right. Hilariously hypocritical it may be, but I suppose it's only human nature to find it more difficult to kill someone you've met face to face. Kamille opts to tie Sarah up and takes her into Zeta's cockpit before flying back out to blow more shit up. Seems like he's got his mojo back after a string of poor performances as he finally gets the upper hand over Jerid despite Jerid piloting a new MS, until Sarah starts making a nuisance of herself, distracting Kamille in the cockpit. On the Argama, Katz has been doing grunt work so he could get more screen time. It worked, as Bright then chooses to send him out rather than Fa. However Katz found he couldn't bring himself to launch and help Zabi, but his principled stand lasts all of about 4 seconds until he hears Sarah over comms, after which you could hardly stop him from launching. I find the scene where Katz and Sarah are having a shouting match over comms while Kamille's trying to wrestle over the controls of Zeta to be quite funny. Eventually Kamille managed to knock out Sarah by push her helmet - not very hard by the sound of things - against the walls of the cockpit. I guess this is equivalent of KOing someone by chip damage in Street Fighter. He makes it back to Argama with Sarah still in tow. After that, Haman orders Axis - which I only just realised is a space fortress - to ram into Titan's space fortress, the Gates of Zedan ... it's a bit like ordering a colony drop on another colony I suppose. This results in a huge, chaotic battle during which Reccoa is sent in a new MS to free Sarah. Given the track record of Zeta, I wasn't expecting Sarah to stay locked up for long, but the manner of her escape this time even took me by surprise: there she was with her hands tied, locked up in a room, and Reccoa was able to free her by ... scoring a direct hit on the ship? What? Then Sarah goes and steals a Gundam, because of course she does. Security in this show is basically operating at the Scooby Doo level of cartoon absurdity. There's some pretty unconventional combat in this episode, spearheaded by Fa. First Fa wrestles Reccoa's mobile suit, then she wrestles Jerid's suit as he's about to fire on Reccoa and Kamille. To save Fa from Jerid, Apolly then follows her lead by wrestling Jerid, with disastrous consequences. As the only person who still remember there are weapons at his disposal, Jerid fires and destroys Apolly's suit. Apolly's been a background character for a while now, so everyone is suitably shocked. Axis ends up successfully ramming Gate of Zedan, and both are destroyed in dramatic fashion. By the way the dialogue is so bad in these episodes I don't even know where to start criticising it. |
kekekeKajOct 31, 2023 2:22 PM
| Take off every SIG!! |
| Episode 45. I hadn't realised Axis is a space fortress, I thought it was a group, comprising Zabi loyalists and Zeon rebels. Ramming her fortress into Gate of Zedan is a novel idea, although Haman is giving up her main base in exchange. Reccoa is sent out in the palace athena MS, cool name. One thing I'll credit gundam with and that's the names of MS and places, Zanzibar, palace of athena, vie en rose (as an aside I love the song of the same name, first heard it from How I Met Your Mother tv series), granada (reminds me of the UK tv studip from the 90's). The Titans have to evacuate the gate of zedan before the impact, whilst the AEUG forces try to target them as they're leaving. Yep Fa employs a new tactic, MS wrestling, then they have a chat, where we get some more awful dialogue from Reccoa about finding her human feelings and being more fulfilled as a woman and being in balance, I assume she's alluding to a relationship with Paptimus, but it's never explicitly stated, nor have we seen Paptimus and Reccoa kissing or being intimate, so it's only a guess. Sarah is freed by Reccoa hitting the ship, as @kekekeKaj said, strange way to set someone free, but it worked. Sarah and Katz talk, she tells him a real man wouldn't want to talk, and that's why she can't love him. Does she mean that real men only give orders to women, or that true manly men don't reveal their emotions? More misogynistic writing, put into the mouth of a woman. I've heard this kind of sentiment before, from a number of anime. In the anime Nana, Shouji and Hachi have a discussion about how Japanese men aren't supposed to say 'i love you', because it's a sign of weakness. The Axis fortress releases an asteroid to hit the gates of zedan. The fortresses collide sending debris hurtling everywhere. Fa laments fighting with Reccoa and admits she couldn't shoot her because she understands what she did, as a woman, and that most woman might make the same choice? At no point, that I can recall, did Reccoa say 'i left the Aragama and AEUG for a new man because he cares for me more than my last bf', that would be understandable, people make lots of bad choices to remain with the person they love. why does Fa think that Reccoa's choice was relatable? The AEUG leadership go to meet with Haman for talks. |
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| Episode 45 The big battle is joined between the Titans and the team of Zeon and the AEUG over the Gate of Zedan. Also, I guess Char’s time on the sidelines was short-lived. Dude is immediately sent into battle despite all the concerns about his safety. But before that, we get to watch Katz creeping on Sarah, watching her through the camera feed. He gets corrected by Kamille who tells him he has to focus up, which Katz pretends he can do - yes, and we saw a great demonstration of that. Also, Reccoa is tasked with getting Sarah out of there. I think the longest she’s been held so far is most of an episode, though she has always escaped on her own. Doesn’t seem like she needs help. Reccoa does inflict some real damage despite everyone telling her “no!” And… yep, there goes Sarah. For the second time in this series, Sarah escapes because the ship took damage, but this time it was the result of Reccoa actively trying to release her by inflicting said damage. Really bang up security guys! Why even bother capturing her at this point? It would be easier just to give her a bag lunch and send her on her way the moment she arrives. Reccoa and Faa have a heart-to-heart, and Reccoa claims… let’s see… that she has no human feelings, that she’s not interested in politics, that she “feels more fulfilled as a woman because her life is in balance” (wtf does that even mean?!) and dismisses Kamille and all men on the Argama for… reasons. I get that this has to do in part with how Char treated her and how Paptimus treats her now, but she is all over the place. We’re lacking a lot of context and she speaks in such vague terms that it does nothing but frustrate someone trying to parse what she is saying. Meanwhile, Sarah talks with Katz, who can’t understand why she wants to return to Paptimus (should not be a surprise - it’s not like she’s ever suggested a real willingness to turn traitor) before refusing to shoot her down. She escapes. The battle becomes messy. Lots of parties moving in and out, Jarid gets in the mix, and a random AEUG dude bites it (had to look up the name - it’s a Apollo Bay, he’s been around fighting with Char since the One Year War, and I guess Kamille was close to him, but I don’t recall their interactions at all). Then, Bright decides to disengage just as the Gate is hit with a massive asteroid, which itself is the Zeon base Axis. The damage is immense, and the Titans are forced to abandon the Gate. Of note, it does appear that the Axis base survived this impact with less damage. So the AEUG ponders their unwillingness to shoot down Reccoa and Sarah. Oh the humanity of it all! |
whiteflame55Nov 1, 2023 7:08 AM
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| Episode 46. Paptimus is meeting Haman and leaves with Sarah and Reccoa. The AEUG learn of this development and Katz recklessly launches, going after Sarah no doubt. Minerva plays the violin for Char, sweet little scene. She clearly has an attachment to Char as someone from her past. She lets slip that she's moving ship. Katz is acting like an idiot and his feelings for Sarah have so little depth. Going after Paptimus in a blind rage after being rejected by Sarah, and told he's not man enough is just a mess. Haman, Paptimus and Jamakov sit down together. Haman tells them that the earth Feds may be planning to cut ties with the Titans. After some confusing shots being fired (Char shoots Paptimus, Sarah shoots her MS laser into the ship), Paptimus shoots Jamakov. After killing Jamakov Paptimus goes after Haman in her MS, knowing the danger she poses. Haman and Paptimus face off in their MS both using their psychic newtype powers. Sarah says "can't you tell, they're fighting in a place we can't see". Katz sees an opportunity and shoots at Paptimus, but Sarah jumps in front and dies. |
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| Episode 46 Paptimus is meeting with Haman, which seems odd since she’s responsible for destroying the main Titan base. Sarah’s upset about it since he’s taking Reccoa along instead of her. Jealous much? Well, Reccoa seems to think she’s justified in feeling that way because Paptimus treats her “as a woman” - would be nice to see some of their relationship instead of just being told they have one, but thanks for clarifying. Jamitov wants him to delay the meeting until he arrives. Not really sure why he’d want to meet with Haman after the woman tried to kill him with her cyanide-laced earring. Meanwhile, back on the Argama, Katz is mad about Char working with the Zeon. He’s a mess emotionally, but still manages to take off despite everyone telling him not to do so. I should seriously keep a running count of the number of times this has happened - if it’s not a joke, then it should be. Char’s meeting with Mineva seems to be going well since she strongly trusts him. Haman decides to let just Katz in the G-Defensor land on their ship, refusing Kamille in the Zeta Gundam because… I guess she doesn’t like that mobile suit. He boards anyway, getting shot at. Katz is trying to assassinate Paptimus because of his control over Sarah, an impetuous move that does seem in character for him, even though you’re right @23feanor that his relationship with Sarah is so half baked that it’s hard to take seriously. I just kind of expect this from him now. Everyone proceeds to be stupid and either facilitate or fail to stop his efforts, including Char. Eventually, he just takes over the assassination plot. Meanwhile, Paptimus (who is caught between two people he has declared fealty to) seemingly decides to murder Haman for the Titans. He doesn’t get his chance, as Char shoots him in the shoulder. Kamille karate chops his way to freedom, Sarah stops Char with a beam rifle (seems incredibly dangerous to go poking big holes in the ship through at least one room filled with people, but cyber newtypes do be crazy), and Paptimus uses the confusion to kill Jamitov because why not have the double cross become a triple cross where he was always on his own side? He escapes with Sarah and the battle is joined, using his assassination as a reason to have the Titans destroy the Zeon. Everyone gets involved at this point, many pewpews. Haman and Paptimus have quite the battle (they’re both newtypes, apparently). Haman controls those remote lasers like Lalah used to back in the day, but Paptimus shoots them down. Both sides unleash what looks like a spirit from their ships with their powers, and while they’re distracted, Katz takes his shot to kill Paptimus. And here we go again (Lalah)… again (Four)… again (Mouar)! Sarah gets in the way of the blast and dies (it almost always seems to be women), but her spirit tries to protect Katz because this might as well happen. Then… Reccoa protects Katz for some reason… and Kamille calls her selfish for some reason… Yeah, it’s all kind of baffling. Katz is upset, the Guadin explodes, and the battle ends. |
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| Episode 47. Katz acting like an impetuous brat yet again takes off after Kamille. Fa follows, earning them the prospect of future corrections from Bright. Kamille talking about self control and not bringing emotions onto the battlefield is a bit rich. He's always trying to save a Titan woman, often at the cost of a mission. Sounds like operation maelstrom is going to be the final conflict. Wait, are the AEUG now fighting against Haman and her forces, I thought they were allies last episode? When did the AEUG break with Haman and decide to go after her, Char was on their ship last episode talking to Minerva. So the AEUG are trying take out the colony laser for good, but also fighting Haman? Bright explaining the situation to the kids on his lap was sweet. Haman wants to destroy the Argama so she can takeover the AEUG forces, leaving Char no option but to join her. Haman and Kamille clash and have another of those psychic woo woo battles where they see a lot of visions, made very little sense. This show really screwed the pooch moving away from pure mech fights to mech fights backed up by jedi mind tricks and woo woo powers. Truly terrible dialogue; "if we can just understand one another", "Haman you're someone that shouldn't be allowed to exist", "return to your world of darkness Haman". Wish Katz had been shot down, would be just desserts for defying orders and always acting so impetuously. The AEUG takeover the colony laser, Gryps 2, but there's an asteroid heading towards them, sent by Axis, or is it the Axis fortress? When did this happen and when did Haman launch an asteroid at Gryps 2? Right at the end we hear that the asteroid is heading towards Granada, and the AEUG have to stop it. The writers are making this up as they go along. When did Haman send the asteroid at Granada, and why are we only learning about it now? |
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| Episode 47 @23feanor I think an episode must have been left on the cutting room floor between this and 46. It’s not very clear what happened between them, but over the course of the episode, it becomes clear that Haman and the AEUG had a falling out off screen, that Haman decided it was time to commit a war crime and crash the Axis asteroid into Granada, and that Kamille and Katz in particular are very mad at her. The latter makes sense due to Sarah, but the former isn’t explained at all. Dude is straight up thirsty for blood much of this episode. Anyway, once again, Katz and Faa get into mobile suits and take off, but this time, everyone’s just kind of fine with it because they’ll serve as distractions for Operation Maestrom… even though Bright says he’ll correct them anyway. So most everyone except Kamille is fine with Katz seeking vengeance for Sarah. Nearly everyone is just an asshole here. Kamille even threatens to shoot Katz (presumably to incapacitate him) in order to stop him from doing something else stupid, though Faa gets in the way because… Kamille has feelings too, I guess. He was tasked with a mission, guys. You just tagged yourselves in, and given that every other mobile suit launches shortly thereafter for the operation, they probably could have launched later without actively interfering. So the battle commences. The Zeon outnumber them, but the AEUG plan to use Kamille to take out Haman without killing the young Zabi, waiting for her to come out in her mobile suit, and Char takes out their ability to use their giant laser. When Haman does come out (feeling the ominous threat from Kamille, but unsure where it’s coming from), Katz and Faa do a good job distracting her before Kamille opens fire. He then proceeds to attack her full on, blaming her for all the evils of the world (thought he was done doing that after he gave up doing it to the Titans, but whatever), but finds her a difficult opponent. Then their newtype powers clash and they’re floating in some weird subspace. Kamille sees all the ladies in his life as well as those he’s lost, while Haman sees Char and Paptimus. Their powers clash as long colorful strands of light before both return to themselves. Now Kamille wants to “talk no jutsu” his way out of this fight before Katz intervenes and gets bodied. And Faa nearly bites it getting in the way of a blast from Haman. Then Kamille once again decides to kill her, except not. He does damage with his Spider-Man cables and she leaves. Haman now takes him seriously as an enemy, and the AEUG capture the giant laser, with the aim being to deflect the Axis asteroid when it gets used in the future to strike Granada (still unclear why they’re doing that). Char warns Kamille that he might be going down a dark path like Amuro. |
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| Episode 46 - 47 Everything continues to be chaotic as the end of the series approaches. Gotta admit, I'm quite enjoying it, but in the same way I enjoy sweets - enjoyable but all empty calories and no substance. Scirocco sets up a meeting with Haman and Jamitov wants in. Given the abundant treachery from when the two sides negotiated last time, it seems crazy that everyone would want to do it again. Katz launches without authorization as he wants in on the meeting to play his own part in adding to the treachery. Kamille sees Katz's unauthroized launch and one-ups him with an unauthorized landing on the Gwadan. The meeting is about as chaotic as you would expect: Scirocco pulls a gun on Haman; Char turns up and starts shooting at them all, injuring Scirocco. Sarah senses Scirocco is in danger and decides to recklessly blow a hole in the walls - could easily have taken out Scirocco in the process. As the dust settles, everyone's gone except Scirocco and Jamitov, so naturally Scirocco kills him lol. The strangest thing about meeting was how Haman didn't seem to have a trecherous plan at all. Perhaps she was expecting Scirocco to kill Jamitov? In Game of Thrones there's a particular betrayal that's one of the most shocking twists in the story, but it only works because there are codes of honour that people generally adheres to. In Zeta, betrayal is so routine that thers's just no tension or shock when it happens - the most surprising thing is that people still chose to meet like this, given the track record of how these things pan out. Anyway, the battle continues outside and it continues to be chaotic. Scirocco, having betrayed Jamitov, goes one step further by betraying Haman too and pinning Jamitov's death on her. Scirocco and Haman has a duel in their mobile suits, with Haman's suit's special attacks hailing back to something from the original series. When it was just mobile suit battles, the duel was pretty good, but then things got a bit weird as the series descended into some superpower fighting shit where both of them starts summoning their spirit animals and they have a stare-off in some astro plane in the 43rd dimension or something. Katz takes advantage of the situation and shoots at Scirocco, Sarah blocks and gets killed and released into her spirit form; Scirocco is pissed and tries to shoot at Katz but is blocked first by Sarah's spirit form then Reccoa, at which point Kamille bizarrely accused Reccoa of being selfish. Not even gonna try and speculate what that's supposed to mean. And then at the end Gwadan explodes for some reason. I don't even remember seeing it attacked. It turns out that Axis somehow survived being rammed into the Gates of Zedan - it's demise was obviously greatly exaggerated. AEUG launches Operation Maelstrom where they attack Zeon and try to destroy Gryps 2. But hang on, since when did Zeon take control of Gryps 2? And aren't they supposed to be allies? Kamille launches as the decoy of the operation, and so does practically anyone else, even though they're not supposed to. Bright has understandably given up trying to stop unauthorized launches, and contents himself with threatening to correct people when the come back. Katz apparently wants to avenge Sarah's death by killing ... Haman? But Haman had nothing to do with it - it was Katz himself who killed Sarah, and Sarah was trying to protect Scirocco. How in the world did Haman come into the equation?! The combat is all over the place. It's good when Kamille reveals his new gadget, and I'll even grant that the lightsabre battles were decent, and I like how Faa shows everyone how blocking should be done as she only sacrifices her MS's leg to the manoeuvre. But then there's all that woo woo newtype duel again, with mysterious voices calling out to Kamille and Haman and they take a trip down memory lane. The most interesting part to come out is that Char and Haman used to be an item, it looks like. But I just can't be arsed engaging with the rest of that newtype bullshit. |
kekekeKajNov 3, 2023 10:29 AM
| Take off every SIG!! |
| Episode 48 The race is on to use the colony laser to stop the Axis from hitting Granada, but Minovski particle nonsense is preventing them from using it. Kamille’s frustrated that the blood on his hands doesn’t include Haman’s. They’re also pushing this relationship between him and Faa at the end, though it’s long since felt weird. They send Faa and a small group into the Axis with explosives to change its trajectory. The environment is interesting, with recently abandoned residential areas. Rosamia has a new purple Psycho Gundam is now convinced that Gaetz is her brother. She searches for the Argama then, for some reason, starts firing on the Axis. Then she just goes rogue because. While this is going on, Paptimus arrives and Bask immediately attacks him - again, not sure why the instant hostility unless he somehow discovered his killing of Jamaitov. The Argama is discovered and Rosamia finds herself in combat with Kamille. She gets her foot stuck in a closing door, they both abandon their mobile suits, like you do, and both shoot at each other until she kind of remembers him, and for some reason, Four is also in her head because she can’t stay dead and Rosamia might as well have another personality. Somehow, Rosamia finds her way to Faa on the Axis, shoots a clown, gets flabbergasted by a yo-yo and gets back in the Psycho Gundam, tearing off its leg and looking for her new brother. She goes berserk, Kamille tries to calm her down, and he ends up having to shoot her down, killing Rosamia in pretty brutal fashion. Then Paptimus’s mobile suits, including a strange green one we haven’t seen before, kill Bask and the rest of the Titan leadership on his ship. Then the members of the AEUG succeed in activating the colony laser and redirect the Axis. Kamille seems oddly fine with everything at the end, if a bit fatalistic. So yeah, now we have just Paptimus, Haman and the AEUG. |
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| Had a long boozy day out for my brother's 40th yday, it was fun but taxing trying to look after a young one, plus the cousins when you've had a few bottles of wine. Episode 48. The whole ending arc feels so rushed, why is Haman targeting AEUG now and going after Granada? This show had a 50 ep runtime and yet it still hasn't taken the time the elaborate on the world building, insisting on its mech of the week battle format. The show missed the boat on Fa and Kamille, so trying to inject these pseudo romantic scenes now at this late stage feels too forced. Does Fa even know about the existence of Four and what she means to Kamille? I also like the deserted residential districts. Rosamia now thinks Gaetz is her brother. The whole idea of controlling someone by telling them a random guy is her brother is weak. Kamille seeing Four makes very little sense except to create tension. He ends up having to shoot Rosammy down before she damages the Argama. Rosammy never worked for me and Kamille seeing Four in his psychic state ridiculous, constantly shouting out "Four", he knows it's not bloody Four stop shouting out her name you idiot. Paptimus arrives out of nowhere and shoots down the Dogos Gear with Bask on board. Guessing that'll be the end of the Titans, despite the fact we've been told repeatedly that the Titans have basically taken over the earth Fed govt leadership and they seem to be everywhere in space and on earth. Bet they'll all be gone now, with no further explanation. The colony laser finally deflects the Axis asteroid from hitting Granada. Now there's just Paptimus to deal with. Episode 49. Ok maybe it was a tad too quick to write the Titans off. Seems back at Gryps 2, the AEUG are still fighting off the Titans and I think Paptimus's forces. Something I forgot to mention the other day about Reccoa and Paptimus. It kind of makes a big difference what relationship they have for me. If she is "his woman" in the traditional sense, and they are lovers, then her stance and defection make sense, as she's getting something from him that she couldn't get from Char or any of the other men on board the Argama, as she scathingly comments a few eps back. Maybe the show didn't want to show Paptimus x Reccoa in an intimate embrace/kissing/spending the night through discretion shot etc as it would have implied Paptimus had a literal harem and multiple lovers (Sarah x Maour x Reccoa), maybe that was a step too far for the writers (they did do it in Iron Blooded Orphans years later, but that was surprisingly well handled to be fair) so they've left the situation between the two vague on purpose. If on the other hand Reccoa is only getting emotional support from Paptimus (as she did when she first met him again after defecting and he hugged her and said he understood her as a woman and she could relax and breathe with him), then that would be disappointing. As if saying she was so broken that merely being given a bit of a pat on the back and a hug from a strong guy like Paptimus was enough to move this strong independent woman to change sides and commit to being his pawn. Therefore the nature of their relationship is key for me in determining Reccoa's state of mind and reasons for her entrenched position as "his woman". Reccoa even says in this episode that she risked everything for Paptimus, but the dialogue and their behaviour is so vague I can't tell whether she simply sees him as a strong man who validates her and worthy leader (bit like a cult follower), or she's fallen for him romantically as is willing to throw her lot in behind his vision. Two very different options. Katz gets shot, sees a vision of Sarah and suddenly everyone can hear singing. Just what the fuck is going on. Oh looks like Katz actually bites the dust after cockily saying that Yasan couldn't hit a barn door, watch what you say kid, he's had it coming for ages and should never have been allowed on a battlefield. Henken nearly sacrifices the Radish protecting Emma from Yasan. The Radish takes major damage. Kamille and Jerid have another exchange of awful dialogue about killing people and why they're fighting before Jarid gets propelled into the Radish and both MS and ship are destroyed, killing Henken and Jarid and the crew of the Radish. Kamille fires off his rifle into the vacuum in frustration at the loss of life, then lifts his visor, exposing his face to the vacuum of space when talking to Emma. Think even a millisecond of exposure to space at that extreme cold temp would instantly freeze his skin and suck the oxygen out of his lungs, but ok, he's not going to kill himself. Finally we get two simultaneous fights, first Haman x Paptimus x Char and second Reccoa x Yasan x Kamille. Emma saves Kamille and faces off against Reccoa. More truly awful dialogue that reaches a level of absurdity that it's just funny, Reccoa says "it's because I'm a woman that I'm here today as your enemy to fight". In a final climatic scene Kamille takes out Yasan and Emma takes out Reccoa as she decries all men saying all they do is take advantage of women and use them as tools. Wait what, is she referring to Char or Paptimus, as she seemed more than willing to become Paptimus's pawn. Think maybe they're trying to say Reccoa wanted to chose her own path, without having to rely on men, even if that meant choosing danger and death. Kamille's psychic powers now give him a physical shield against laser blasts and he realises "lives are the power the of the universe". Then he shoots a beam laser from his head. This ep was good, but only in a 'so bad it's good' sort of way. |
23feanorNov 5, 2023 6:09 AM
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| @23feanor I agree that Paptimus x Reccoa could do with some specification, and that that particular choice could impact how likely we were to sympathize with Reccoa in her choices, though honestly... any specification would have been better than what we got. Reccoa's character has a bad habit of making strange, vague statements about how she feels and how her choices are the result of her being a woman, part of which I chalk up to bad, misogynistic writing and part of which I attribute to them just not wanting to pick something and stick with it. Maybe they thought the absence of clarity would give her some mystique or allow us to imprint our own thoughts onto her narrative, but all it did was make her frustrating to watch and impossible to decipher. Episode 49 Yep, the title is right: this episode is littered with bodies. We’ve got a big pitched battle between the Titans and the AEUG. Katz becomes cocky and, despite a number of warnings, ends up ramming himself into an asteroid and getting shot down by Yazan, with Sarah’s spirit there to comfort him in his last moments. I know this is meant to be emotional, but the whole thing was so absurd that I couldn’t connect with it, not to mention Katz has just generally been a hard character to get behind. Emma tries to get revenge and nearly bites it herself, with Katz’s spirit now giving her some help. The show remembered that Henken loves Emma for this moment so that he can put himself and everyone on his ship in Yazan’s crosshairs, protecting Emma but disabling the ship and killing many in the process. Meanwhile, Kamille and Jarid are having their final battle, each blaming the other and calling the other a murderer (neither of you are clean, but Jarid has no leg to stand on - dude tried to gas a colony). Jarid gets thrown into a ship (I think that was the damaged Radish, so I guess he ensured Henken’s death to boot) and both blow up, a lackluster finish to a 49 episode long rivalry that has Kamille horrified. He shoots his laser in frustration. Paptimus and Reccoa are talking about how this is all too chaotic and those currently fighting need good leadership that I guess only Paptimus can provide… OK… Emma is rescued from her disabled MS by Kamille. Kamille swears a vendetta against Yazan, claiming that he’s the reason “it will be too hard for us to live in outer space.” Not really sure why one pilot is the problem here, but whatever. Then he opens his helmet in the vacuum of space for some reason that neither I nor Emma can understand. Haman and the Zeon enter the fray, going after Paptimus. While they’re distracted, Char fires his giant laser (not the colony one, the one from earlier) and takes out most of Zeon’s forces. So now it’s 2 fights: Haman vs. Paptimus vs. Char, and Kamille and Emma vs. Reccoa and Yazan. Both Reccoa and Paptimus are in new MSs, the former of which is in that strange green suit and the latter claims it’s his ultimate creation, but we know nothing about it. Reccoa and Emma talk and I’m still completely unclear as to why Reccoa is like this. She says “everyone’s life is their own, you can’t tell me what to do” after hearing about Katz’s death, says that “all men care about is fighting their battles” when that seems to be all she cares about in this moment. Emma and Reccoa take each other down (not sure if the latter is dead), Emma abandons her MS gets hit by debris. Then we’re back to woo woo newtype BS. Kamille learns a lesson about lives and this somehow manifests as a pink cloak around his Zeta Gundam, which can now tank laser rifle fire from Yazan. Yazan tries to bail out, but a grunting Kamille catches up and kills him. Kamille goes back to save Emma, who is in bad shape. At this point, the fights have become an excuse to eliminate as many main characters as possible in the most ridiculous fashion. Little to nothing gets paid off, most of these mobile suit designs only look interesting without receiving much in the way of explanation, and many of the characters have just devolved into being driven solely by single motivations with any complexity having been drained out. |
whiteflame55Nov 5, 2023 5:36 AM
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| Episode 50 At last, we reach the end. I know it’s been mentioned before by @23feanor but it deserves to be said more that this series has felt exceedingly rushed in its finale. I recall the original Mobile Suit Gundam had some issues with this as well, but they also had somewhere that become pretty iconic to go with it, as well as a bunch of characters that the series had, at least to some extent, made me care about on both sides of the conflict. I don’t think either will be the case here. I don’t care about any of the Titans, Paptimus or Haman and the Zeons, and the last couple of episodes have drained much of my appreciation of the main cast. So while I’m hoping for the best, I’m not excited for this finale. Emma asks Kamille to… absorb her life. She believes human spirits and wills can be used by Kamille in the Zeta Gundam to power him up. What the fuck even is this anymore?! Is he forming the Spirit Bomb around his MS now? Anyway, she does in his arms because I guess she gave it to him, and he shouts her name. Bright decides to use the colony laser to destroy much of the enemy. Paptimus vs. Char vs. Haman continues while they go toward the laser, Paptimus immediately inflicting damage to it. Char is overwhelmed in combat. Paptimus says he failed to become a “true newtype,” but which he never explains. Char bails out (and this is the point where Paptimus should have stayed in his suit and destroyed the firing capacity of the laser, but screw strategy I guess) chased by Haman. Char ends up on a stage under a spotlight with Haman’s gun pointed alternatively at him then at Paptimus. Char claims he wants to wait for humanity to “awaken to its newtype gifts” while Haman wants to reestablish Zabi dominance and Paptimus… I guess he wants to create an empire of newtypes? Kamille arrives on the scene, so now there are three strong newtypes. The show has several times mentioned that there are people “whose souls are dragged down by Earth’s gravity,” which I guess means anyone who is clinging to Earth as a home instead of considering the colonies. Honestly, though there is an interesting push and pull here, the series has spent so little time examining it that it’s pretty weak. The best we got was that one episode where Char gave a speech, and then the show forgot about it and moved on. Now it’s back, too little too late. Anyway, Faa arrives and Char and Kamille high tail it out of there. The colony laser is fired, taking Emma’s body with it (actually thought that was a nice touch showing her surrounded by electricity) as well as most of the Titan fleet. Kamille faces off against Paptimus with some clunky back and forth (“better a child than evil”? Lol) and Char faces down Haman. His already damaged MS suffers more damage before he blows up the ship they’re in, apparently destroying himself, though Haman escapes. Kamille starts arguing with all the spirits who are with him (I see Emma, Katz, Sarah, Four and Rosamia… also, is that fucking Lilah who speaks to him first? Really? He didn’t even know her beyond that one fight where he killed her) before they all join with him to form a cloak of light around Kamille (not clear why Sarah is convinced) to take down Paptimus. Kamille has, by my count, at least 3 times said that someone needs to die in order to prevent some major catastrophe. Paptimus and Haman do at least make some sense, though. Anyway, Paptimus gets impaled in gruesome fashion. He then used woo woo newtype powers to interact with Kamille’s mind before he dies. Seems like he’s reduced to the mind of a child by the end - it’s akin to Rosamia’s child-like mental state and it’s unclear what exactly happened. Char’s mobile suit, barely intact, crosses the screen in the waning moments of the show, hinting at his probable survival, though I guess no one checks. Overall, this show was just very messy. I decided to check back into my old review of the 1979 series by way of comparison, and while I can say there were some improvements (this series did not start off slow, getting into the action early and often), it shares many issues with that series and added a few more. Much of the finale felt rushed (I've tried looking into it, but I can't find information about a missing episode between 46 and 47, despite evidence that a great deal of pertinent information is missing) and too much was built on Kamille's sudden acquisition and use of certain absurd newtype powers. The whole narrative seemed like it was jumping from battle to battle, often with little rhyme or reason, and while the original series clearly was aiming to sell toys and finding any reason to come out with a new mech type, this series seems particularly interested in hyping up new models with little or no explanation. It did make some of the fights more interesting, since new tools got pulled out often, but with so much of the series' fights reduced to "who can newtype harder?" I can't say it was enough. Characters range from frustratingly mired in single-minded character motivations (looking at you, Reccoa and Jarid) to the point that all their more interesting aspects seem to disappear in some form of self-inflicted character assassination to more complex characters that are are so inconsistent that it's hard to appreciate their better moments (i.e. Kamille and Char). The villains weren't very nuanced at all. Bask felt almost cartoonishly villainous despite some scenes suggesting internal turmoil (we never got to see any more than suggestions of it), and Haman beating the Zeon drum the entire time she was on screen didn't give us any insight into her character. Paptimus might be the closest thing we got to a nuanced villain, but we never really got to understand him in any way - he just wanted power and manipulated a lot of people to get it. And the character writing for women in this series is just atrocious across the board. I had my problems with the 1979 series, but this is a grab bag of terrible tropes with only a few points of light. The few times we got character development that looked like it could produce something interesting for the series as a whole (Four, in particular) it was cut abruptly short to facilitate more space battles. In the end, I find myself liking this one less the more I think about it. If I think about this in the broad strokes, I like Kamille's journey, the political and military elements of this world are intriguing and I'm fond of several relationships in the mix, but the more I dig down into the "why" of those elements, the more I find things that either don't make sense or are mired in so much clunky dialogue that it's hard to appreciate them in their totality. I can find parts I really enjoyed, but they're relatively few given the 50 episode run. I end up at a 5.5/10. |
whiteflame55Nov 5, 2023 7:51 AM
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| Episode 50. Emma dies and passes on her will to Kamille, who knew that was a thing newtypes could do, absorb someone else's soul? I liked Emma, one of the few decent chars in the show. Is it a coincidence that both women who defected, and showed disloyalty are now dead I wonder? Liked the part where Char ends up on a stage set with the spotlight on him. Haman and Paptimus accuse him of being melodramatic and bringing his emotions into his actions. Char is about as stoic as character as you get (John Wayne type, silent and lets his actions speak, apart from when he makes grandiose and sage statements) and very rarely says what he thinks or feels, so no idea where this is coming from. The colony laser takes out the remainder of the Titan fleet, so guess they're finally vanquished now. Looks like Char blows up a ship along with himself, but given he appears in the sequel movie guessing he sneakily makes it out. Sounds like Haman and Char have some history. The spirits of the fallen join with kamille to defeat Paptimus and then appears to lose his mind. And that's all she wrote. There are a ton of new and mixed messages coming from zeta. Oldtypes are the cause of lack of peace and are destroying the earth (the African bush looked ok, with plenty of animals). Only newtypes can understand and empathise with each other. The earth and gravity suck peoples souls and humanity needs to get into space, to let the earth heal. Newtypes are misunderstood, but suddenly everywhere, are all people born in space newtypes? So much of this is haphazardly thrown out so that none of it feels explained or thought through. The main takeaways for me were the phrases we so often used in our discussions; clunky, ham fisted dialogue, frustrating character writing, woo woo psychic powers, lacking world building. This series made me appreciate the original series even more. It hammered home to me the importance of script writing, apart from narration, which seldom occurred here, it's the key way you engage with a show. And unfortunately for zeta, the script writing and dialogue put into the mouths of the characters was so poor it made their decisions and motivations difficult to fathom and the world building slapdash, as if the writers were making things up as they went. I also gave zeta a 5/10. Think I'll watch Char's Counterattack, Unicorn OVA and the Hathaway movie to round off my foray into gundam but don't want to sit through another full length series like this again, apart from Witch from Mercury which I'll give a shot as well. @inim @kekekeKaj @whiteflame55 as always thanks for your contributions. As has happened before our discussions here were more profitable and enjoyable than the actual series we were watching so thanks! Onto Sailor Moon. |
23feanorNov 6, 2023 3:22 AM
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| Episodes 48 - 50 It's a pretty brutal end to the series as pretty much everybody dies Rosamia is the first to go, after being programmed to think the Titan guy is her brother. She ends up attacking Kamille in Gryps 2 but gets stuck, so she gets out of the Gundam to have a face to face with Kamille. There's a disjointed transition where she seemed to get sucked through a hole in the base but rather ending up in space she ends up in a residential area. She runs into Fa and ends up shooting at her then running away from Kamille, who for some reason was getting visions of 4. Rosammy gets back in her Gundam and promptly gets unstucks by going backwards - they do say that taking a walk is good for creativity after all! Soon afterwards though, she goes berserk and starts shooting her psycho lasers everywhere, and Kamille was forced to shoot her down. I get the feeling that she really did have a brother, but as for whether Kamille just happen to look like him or is actually her brother, what she was doing at the resort colony, why Kamille was seeing visions of 4 … in typical Zeta fashion we will never find out the answer to any of those. After that Bask gets taken out by Reccoa - like @whiteflame55 I have no idea why Bask is suddenly fighting Scirocco's forces. Katz is the next to go. He seemed like he had a death wish as after combining G-Defenser with Gundam II, instead of escaping, he tried to show off his skillz in his escape ship, dodging Yazan's shots (not sure why Yazan was wasting his energy on shooting down an escape ship rather than going after the bigger threat of Gundam II). He might have got away with it if it wasn't for those pesky asteroids floating around. We then have Gundam II vs the KKK squad battle. It's a testament of Yazan's skill that the rest of the squadron is destroyed but he manages to beat Emma's Gundam II. Henken's crew then eggs on Henken to use Radish as a shield for Emma. In what should go down as one of history's worst military blunders, the whole ship was sacrificed to save one pilot. Meanwhile, Kamille finally manages to kill Jerid. I thought he was going to be Kamille's greatest rival, but he actually bites the dust before Yazan. Disappointing. After that, Reccoa and Emma kill each other, after Emma says Reccoa is too womanly or some nonsense like that. Kamille is really pissed at this point, so he inputs in some cheat codes to put Zeta in super sayan mode. Zeta Gundam's lightsabre now has fire on it and also extend, and extend it did to to kill Yazan who was trying to get away - you know the guy's good when it takes inputting cheat codes to kill him. For some reason, Scirocco and Haman then decides to gang up on Char, even though he's not even a proper newtype and he's piloting an inferior mobile suit. Char has, to be honest, been pretty underwhelming in Zeta, but he finally shines here as despite his disadvantages he puts up a pretty good resistance, to the point where he was still fighting even though his mobile suit had no arms and legs left lol. In a last desperate throw of the dice, he caused some ship to explode just as Haman was about to deliver the coup de gras. It looks like Haman escapes in the end, and I'm guessing Char also survives the explosion given there's a sequel called Char's Counterattack. Finally, Kamille faces off against Scirocco in a woo woo newtype battle, where all the dead newtype gets involved and all have a back and forth argument. I remember wondering if this newtype soup was the inspiration for the third impact in Evangelion where everyone merges into a single consciousness. I don't know why but Kamille decides to ram Scirocco's mobile suit instead of just firing at him. Maybe he was going for flashiness as he does end up impaling Scirocco in spectacular fashion. Not sure whether it was due to the impact or to Scirocco using his newtype powers to take Kamille with him, but Kamille ends up dying too (but his soul lives on), and the series ends rather abruptly. --- Phew! That felt like a suitably climactic ending that, at the same time, was symptomatic of the problems of the series as a whole. To summarise: the original Gundam series impressed me not only on its strengths of ideas, but how well it executed on some of them. It also featured well thought out tactical battles and military engagements which were enjoyable for someone like me. On the downside, while the ambitions to tell a more serialised story was there, it was often hampered by the short-termism of the writing, with quick resolutions affecting the impact of story development. The newtype concept tacked on at the end was also rushed and poorly explained. Zeta Gundam felt like it took the flaws of the original series and exacerbated them without offering much improvement in return. The battle animation might be somewhat improved, and there are some great mecha/ship designs, but these can't compensate for the lack of well thought through battles and tactics. Its ambitions for the story may have increased, but the execution had not improved, and if anything feels even worse. The sense of a LoGH-esq complex geo-political storyline is severely undercut by how events seem to be written to be contained within a couple of episodes, not to mention they constantly contradicted what came before. This gives the impression that the complex-seeming, overarching story is nothing but an illusion, and the writers are simply making things up as they go along. Things are not helped by the impenetrable dialogue, making the story even harder to follow - this is a new problem that didn't really exist in the original - as well as coming off often as absurdly sexist as the series went all in on the romance subplots which failed even harder than in the original. Ironically, one of the core concept of the story - newtypes - also actively makes the story worse. The concept is super whishy-washy, frequently serving as convenient plot devices, morphing into whatever's required to move the story in the desired direction as well as making a mockery of the mecha battles. However, because it's such an intricate part of the story, the series also can't really do without it. One of the series' greatest strengths is in its character development, which occasionally showed moments of brilliance and thoughtfulness. Most notably, Kamille's development from unlikable brat into a teenager struggling to transition into an adult is worthy of praise for me. But again, the negatives outweigh the positives, as more frequently the baffling dialogues make the character's personalities and motivations unfathomable at times. The writers also didn't seem to know what to do with Char's transition from an enigmatic anti-villain in the original series to a constantly present supporting character in Zeta. Pretty sure I'm not the only one who was disappointed by the lack of exploration of his character and also with his contribution - end of series heroics aside - being limited to the occasional sage-seeming soundbite. I honestly can't say I feel like I know him much better than at the end of the original series, and that's simply not acceptable for the size of the role he has in Zeta. From the very start I puzzled over why this series is held in such high regard, and the question marks mostly remained till the end. It was gratifying after I watched the original series to see how Macross built a much improved show on the ideas it borrowed from the original Gundam. But despite coming in a few years after Macross, the Gundam franchise has - apart from the improved production values - taken steps backwards and given us a far inferior show to even the original Gundam, let alone the lofty heights achieved by Macross. Despite not being canned prematurely, Zeta somehow managed to tell an even less complete story than the original - it was like watching a show where half the episodes were cut by an over zealous editor. I don't think I can recall a single episode in Zeta for which I would give unreserved praise. I might recommend Macross to modern anime fans, and on a good day I might even recommend the original Gundam, but I would genuinely be reluctant to recommend Zeta Gundam, which, for me, rarely cleared even the lowly bar of mediocrity. Final verdict: 5/10 (mediocre) Thank you @23feanor @whiteflame55 (@inim where've you gone lol) for accompanying me on this at times torturous journey - without the group analysis and the shared frustration being vented in the form of amusing episode summaries, this experience would have been a lot more tiresome. Would have loved to watch Sailor Moon with you guys but I need a break (and also need to get back to watching Ashita no Joe 2 - did I mention that's a far superior oldie?) Same time next time year for Double Zeta? :D |
| Take off every SIG!! |
| @inim @23feanor @kekekeKaj I appreciated your thoughts as well! It wasn't our first time talking about a series that was frustrating to watch, but this was probably the most consistently frustrating for me (even if it never got into the territory of being outright offensive that we've seen before). It was worth the watch - I actually watched Char's Counterattack already out of order and, while I think it's significantly better than this, I'm surprised just how little this clarifies for me. I'll need to rewatch it one of these days and see if this filled in some gaps that I'm just not remembering. @kekekeKaj I do agree entirely with your view of Char, and I think my experience with him from that movie (and with Amuro, who plays a substantial role as well) is pretty rocky as well, though at least more straightforward. Given the much lower score for Double Zeta, I can't say I'm likely to pick it up, though as @23feanor said, I'd be willing to at least be willing to do Unicorn and Hathaway, given how well regarded those two series are (then again, so was this one...). I've been impressed by enough Gundam entries (The Origin, IBO, Pocket) that I'm not entirely put off by a disappointing watch. And yes, onto Sailor Moon! |
whiteflame55Nov 6, 2023 4:10 PM
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