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Sep 22, 2022 4:04 PM
#101
SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: RogerCop said: You're correct, she just a bland character, not a bad one, simply bland. And she isn't frustrated, she clearly isn't a reactionary type, she simply is the living incarnation of Yolo and nothing else. The show is the one badly written, and takina is missed potential. I'm pretty sure I, just like many others correctly analysed what we have seen and it's quite literally in our faces. Secret333 said: So because she's harrassed it's understandable to possibly kill them? My point is that the show doesn't acknowledge how fucked up that is and apparently neither do you. And I emphasize how innocent they are because they fucking are. Honking at someone doesn't make you deserve the fucking death sentence. "And they were not in any danger of losing their lives" You have no reason to belive that. You just have to because it makes the scene less shit. I never tried to force my morals at her. I evaluated her actions based on her own morals. And if a character acts against their morals, it should be acknowledged by the story. That scene was just brushed aside. So it's not a character flaw, it's just a fuck up in the writing. They wanted to show how sad she is and ended up making her almost kill people without realizing it. Just like you have no reason to believe they were in danger? Something tells me, that authors will agree with me and your reaching is kinda irrelevant, because you just desperately want to see this scene more shit than it actually is. It's brushed aside because there is completely nothing more to it. And I am emphasizing how they do not deserve sympathy, because they don't deserve sympathy lol. That's why they were portrayed as jackasses. They did not deserved death and they did not died. You are seriously wondering why people refuse to read this wall of text? I did and lost some braincells in the process. You just do not pay attention what you are watching, think that character being put in moral dilemma makes them a bad character and somehow reach really far due to your bias. WTF?! You don't get it do you? The OP isn't against putting characters in moral dilemmas or against them having flaws. The problem is the fact that these flaws or dilemmas aren't expanded upon...AT ALL. No introspection, no pondering on what happened before, no regret, NOTHING. It's just presented to us as is and we're supposed to just accept it without these things ever being addressed. It's lazy writing. You have no idea what you are talking about. Like half of those paragraphs are literally "flawed character = bad character" and the rest are complete misrepresentation and desperate nitpicking. I mean, you could just read "TLDR" part at the bottom, which is quite hyperbolic, but still. You pointed out one point from the OP's post and have harped on and on about it without addressing anything else. You're just making general claims in an attempt to defend the character. How do you explain Chisato claiming she cares about human life and preserving them, but having no reaction at all to any of her teammates being killed in brutal ways? Or the fact she's been nonchalant about the whole Majima situation at best. Or how about the fact she doesn't even follow her own advice? She criticized Fuki for getting too close to an opponent and told her it's an easy way for her to be disarmed by her opponent, only for her to do that exact same mistake 2 episodes later. These are just a FEW examples of the lazy and incompetent writing we've seen throughout this show. Well, sorry that I just targeted one garbage point out of 10 and focused on it way more then I should, because I did not wanted bothering deconstructing the rest. I guess authors are very sorry, that highway scene was not handled exactly as you wanted and they definitely should expect that some people would have a wrong impression that someone might die there. Anyway, you are keep saying that "flawed character = bad character". That is wrong. Hypocrisy is a flaw. Chisato is a hypocrite at times, because she is a human. She is not even particularly intelligent. An I don't know how advising Fuki for coming too close is a bad thing, becsuse that's logical, while Chisato has no problem dodging point blank shots and Fuki can't. Lol WHAT? I have never once said in this entire thread that a flawed character is a bad character. In fact most S tier characters have flaws that make them more relatable. The issue with Chisato's flaws are that they're not even really treated as flaws in the first place. And advising Fuki isn't a bad thing. The problem is that she criticized her for making a rookie mistake, yet went on to make that exact rookie mistake despite being the best Lycoris in the country. That goes beyond just not being "smart". Her experience and skill should never have her making that error in the first place. Then maybe you should reread your post, because you seem to have problem with Chisato being a little bit selfish. And I'm not sure what are you implying by "treates as flaws", because if it's people not calling her out on it, then... well... XD The thing is, those flaws make her character not as predictable as Mary Sue characters like Kirito or Tatsuya. That's their entire purpose. If you really think, that she will be completely different, unrecognizable person by the end, then you are wrong. And you still don't get it why Cbisato is allowed to get into melle range, but others shouldn't? It might have something to do with her incredible reflexes or something... Her being selfish goes against her ideals of wanting to save lies and how much she values human lives though. No one is saying she should be the arbiter of justice and go on a rampage avenging people who were killed. The point is she doesn't even think about it or seem to care at all. How can we then buy her arguments against Yoshi or her excuse for not killing him? Chisato isn't a Mary Sue, but there are too many instances where her own ideals and beliefs are betrayed by Chisato herself. And her "incredible reflexes" sure did save her against Majima! The rookie mistake that she criticized her ally for DEFINITELY didn't backfire on her or anything! Ye, she doesn't care about them. You seem to get it. But she does care about Yoshi, because he is literally a father figure for her, who saved her life. But she doesn't care about DA stuff. And she does not really care about "preserving life", but about not staining her hands. Big distinction. Maybe I paraphrased it wrong earlier, but whatever. |
Hibiki Tachibana from Symphogear is THE worst protagonist in all anime. No hyperbole or exaggeration.  |
Sep 22, 2022 4:04 PM
#102
Piromysl said: Secret333 said: Piromysl said: Secret333 said: Piromysl said: Secret333 said: Piromysl said: Secret333 said: Ionliosite2 said: Don't worry OP, I actually read thought your wall of text. 1- Yeah, if I'm told that 4 people that I don't care anything about and that I also probably don't know died then I might not care as well, call me weird or cold, but it's the truth. 2- I think I no longer remember episode 8. 3- Yes, she killed no one, and no one died, so no betraying of her morals and beliefs. 4- This is just the same as "why does the bad guy sent minions to fight the MC and doesn't he go to kill him before he gets strong?" type of thinking, just convenient writting, so I agree with you that she was weird that scene. 5- Yes, people can be selfish, welcome to reality. She knows that her heart wouldn't have lasted forever either way and it is her desition that she is fine without their help. 7- But Takina isn't dead... 8- Didn't she say that she let Yoshi go because she is grateful to him? And you are also saying your reasoning that she doesn't kill people. As if he could have been tied, probably. 10- How was she supposed to react when he just appeared out of nowhere? At least I don't know if she saw him walking before shooting. The ones I didn't answer I tink because they were extensions of just the previous one and the 6 you yourself said that it was something you found funny. You can find my reasoning faulty since I already started to forget the small details and just remember the important ones. I don't think she is a terrible character, but also definitely not a great one either. 1-If someone told you someone targeted and killed 4 people who are in the same business as you, wear the same uniforms, for the fact that they work in the same field, How would you recive that info? I would take few days off until situation settles down. Also, Chisato is not really in DA. And does not wear the same uniform. I think it was quite heavily emphasized. You sound like you'd take that situation seriously. Now tell me if chisato does that. She's a lycoris like them, the cafe is a subsidiary of the DA and recieves funding from them, and she is wearing the same uniform. Just because the color is different doesn't mean everything else about the design is. Yea, I would totally take situation seriously and NOT do try to avenge strangers, which is not my business. Chisato's entire character is that she refuses to kill people and you are complaining, that she is not going on a rampage... I kept her no killing rule in mind and I said, multiple times, that she doesn't even try to arrest or apprehend the people responsible for numerous deaths. I never said she should go on a rampage. I would expect her to be calm, but still show care for the crimes committed. She doesn't. She's not Batman bruh. Get over it. You are keep trying to force your own morals on others, which is kinda iffy. And she does arrest/restrain hostiles if she can. She literally has a wiregun thingy. I never tried to force my morals on anyone. Who the fuck compared her to batman? And Why oh why does she not use her wiregun thingy to chain Yoshi the terrorist funder? You are constantly complaining that Chisato does not act as you would and doesn't bother you avenge some strangers. You expect her to take justice into her own hands like some sort of Batman. And she let Yoshi go literally because he is like a father to her and owns him her life. She doesn't give a slightest flying fuck about this whole DA stuff, which was emphasized A LOT. She doesn't consider herself and enforcer of justice or anything like that. "She let Yoshu go literally because he is like a father to her and owes him her life" Doesn't change the fact that he funded terrorists, indirectly ended countless lives that she claims to care about and tried to make her kill someone for his own selfish ideals. She knows he's in the wrong. All she had to do was apprehend him using the wire gun, like she's done with several other bad guys. |
Sep 22, 2022 4:05 PM
#103
SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: Secret333 said: Piromysl said: Secret333 said: Piromysl said: Secret333 said: Ionliosite2 said: Don't worry OP, I actually read thought your wall of text. 1- Yeah, if I'm told that 4 people that I don't care anything about and that I also probably don't know died then I might not care as well, call me weird or cold, but it's the truth. 2- I think I no longer remember episode 8. 3- Yes, she killed no one, and no one died, so no betraying of her morals and beliefs. 4- This is just the same as "why does the bad guy sent minions to fight the MC and doesn't he go to kill him before he gets strong?" type of thinking, just convenient writting, so I agree with you that she was weird that scene. 5- Yes, people can be selfish, welcome to reality. She knows that her heart wouldn't have lasted forever either way and it is her desition that she is fine without their help. 7- But Takina isn't dead... 8- Didn't she say that she let Yoshi go because she is grateful to him? And you are also saying your reasoning that she doesn't kill people. As if he could have been tied, probably. 10- How was she supposed to react when he just appeared out of nowhere? At least I don't know if she saw him walking before shooting. The ones I didn't answer I tink because they were extensions of just the previous one and the 6 you yourself said that it was something you found funny. You can find my reasoning faulty since I already started to forget the small details and just remember the important ones. I don't think she is a terrible character, but also definitely not a great one either. 1-If someone told you someone targeted and killed 4 people who are in the same business as you, wear the same uniforms, for the fact that they work in the same field, How would you recive that info? I would take few days off until situation settles down. Also, Chisato is not really in DA. And does not wear the same uniform. I think it was quite heavily emphasized. You sound like you'd take that situation seriously. Now tell me if chisato does that. She's a lycoris like them, the cafe is a subsidiary of the DA and recieves funding from them, and she is wearing the same uniform. Just because the color is different doesn't mean everything else about the design is. Yea, I would totally take situation seriously and NOT do try to avenge strangers, which is not my business. Chisato's entire character is that she refuses to kill people and you are complaining, that she is not going on a rampage... I kept her no killing rule in mind and I said, multiple times, that she doesn't even try to arrest or apprehend the people responsible for numerous deaths. I never said she should go on a rampage. I would expect her to be calm, but still show care for the crimes committed. She doesn't. She's not Batman bruh. Get over it. You are keep trying to force your own morals on others, which is kinda iffy. And she does arrest/restrain hostiles if she can. She literally has a wiregun thingy. OP isn't forcing his morals on anyone. He's criticizing the character because she betrays her own morals. Funny you mention the wire gun because OP literally addresses it and uses it to criticize her not apprehending Yoshi in the latest episode. So, once again, "flawed character/hypocrisy = bad writing". Dismissed. And I forgot to mention, that if DA would get to him, he would be fkin dead, so... |
Hibiki Tachibana from Symphogear is THE worst protagonist in all anime. No hyperbole or exaggeration. |
Sep 22, 2022 4:06 PM
#104
thunderkitten667 said: SaiyanGod_15 said: Cope & Seethe like the rest of them. I bet half of you didn't even watch it and those that did just don't understand it, The hate is unreal. Just mad the show is more popular than whatever you're watching currently But by all means Say what you will :)  Honestly. The hate threads are coming on after Lycoris Recoil has been dominating for 11 weeks. I would understand after week 3, but week 11? They just can’t stand a Chisato and Takina dominating the spotlight, an original anime only series that is more popular than shows that are even on their second season. Dominating? What exactly is Lyco Reco dominating? It's not even the most popular show this season lmao |
Sep 22, 2022 4:07 PM
#105
SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: Secret333 said: Piromysl said: Secret333 said: Piromysl said: Secret333 said: Piromysl said: Secret333 said: Ionliosite2 said: Don't worry OP, I actually read thought your wall of text. 1- Yeah, if I'm told that 4 people that I don't care anything about and that I also probably don't know died then I might not care as well, call me weird or cold, but it's the truth. 2- I think I no longer remember episode 8. 3- Yes, she killed no one, and no one died, so no betraying of her morals and beliefs. 4- This is just the same as "why does the bad guy sent minions to fight the MC and doesn't he go to kill him before he gets strong?" type of thinking, just convenient writting, so I agree with you that she was weird that scene. 5- Yes, people can be selfish, welcome to reality. She knows that her heart wouldn't have lasted forever either way and it is her desition that she is fine without their help. 7- But Takina isn't dead... 8- Didn't she say that she let Yoshi go because she is grateful to him? And you are also saying your reasoning that she doesn't kill people. As if he could have been tied, probably. 10- How was she supposed to react when he just appeared out of nowhere? At least I don't know if she saw him walking before shooting. The ones I didn't answer I tink because they were extensions of just the previous one and the 6 you yourself said that it was something you found funny. You can find my reasoning faulty since I already started to forget the small details and just remember the important ones. I don't think she is a terrible character, but also definitely not a great one either. 1-If someone told you someone targeted and killed 4 people who are in the same business as you, wear the same uniforms, for the fact that they work in the same field, How would you recive that info? I would take few days off until situation settles down. Also, Chisato is not really in DA. And does not wear the same uniform. I think it was quite heavily emphasized. You sound like you'd take that situation seriously. Now tell me if chisato does that. She's a lycoris like them, the cafe is a subsidiary of the DA and recieves funding from them, and she is wearing the same uniform. Just because the color is different doesn't mean everything else about the design is. Yea, I would totally take situation seriously and NOT do try to avenge strangers, which is not my business. Chisato's entire character is that she refuses to kill people and you are complaining, that she is not going on a rampage... I kept her no killing rule in mind and I said, multiple times, that she doesn't even try to arrest or apprehend the people responsible for numerous deaths. I never said she should go on a rampage. I would expect her to be calm, but still show care for the crimes committed. She doesn't. She's not Batman bruh. Get over it. You are keep trying to force your own morals on others, which is kinda iffy. And she does arrest/restrain hostiles if she can. She literally has a wiregun thingy. I never tried to force my morals on anyone. Who the fuck compared her to batman? And Why oh why does she not use her wiregun thingy to chain Yoshi the terrorist funder? You are constantly complaining that Chisato does not act as you would and doesn't bother you avenge some strangers. You expect her to take justice into her own hands like some sort of Batman. And she let Yoshi go literally because he is like a father to her and owns him her life. She doesn't give a slightest flying fuck about this whole DA stuff, which was emphasized A LOT. She doesn't consider herself and enforcer of justice or anything like that. "She let Yoshu go literally because he is like a father to her and owes him her life" Doesn't change the fact that he funded terrorists, indirectly ended countless lives that she claims to care about and tried to make her kill someone for his own selfish ideals. She knows he's in the wrong. All she had to do was apprehend him using the wire gun, like she's done with several other bad guys. I don't feel like repeating myself. |
Hibiki Tachibana from Symphogear is THE worst protagonist in all anime. No hyperbole or exaggeration. |
Sep 22, 2022 4:09 PM
#106
Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: RogerCop said: You're correct, she just a bland character, not a bad one, simply bland. And she isn't frustrated, she clearly isn't a reactionary type, she simply is the living incarnation of Yolo and nothing else. The show is the one badly written, and takina is missed potential. I'm pretty sure I, just like many others correctly analysed what we have seen and it's quite literally in our faces. Secret333 said: So because she's harrassed it's understandable to possibly kill them? My point is that the show doesn't acknowledge how fucked up that is and apparently neither do you. And I emphasize how innocent they are because they fucking are. Honking at someone doesn't make you deserve the fucking death sentence. "And they were not in any danger of losing their lives" You have no reason to belive that. You just have to because it makes the scene less shit. I never tried to force my morals at her. I evaluated her actions based on her own morals. And if a character acts against their morals, it should be acknowledged by the story. That scene was just brushed aside. So it's not a character flaw, it's just a fuck up in the writing. They wanted to show how sad she is and ended up making her almost kill people without realizing it. Just like you have no reason to believe they were in danger? Something tells me, that authors will agree with me and your reaching is kinda irrelevant, because you just desperately want to see this scene more shit than it actually is. It's brushed aside because there is completely nothing more to it. And I am emphasizing how they do not deserve sympathy, because they don't deserve sympathy lol. That's why they were portrayed as jackasses. They did not deserved death and they did not died. You are seriously wondering why people refuse to read this wall of text? I did and lost some braincells in the process. You just do not pay attention what you are watching, think that character being put in moral dilemma makes them a bad character and somehow reach really far due to your bias. WTF?! You don't get it do you? The OP isn't against putting characters in moral dilemmas or against them having flaws. The problem is the fact that these flaws or dilemmas aren't expanded upon...AT ALL. No introspection, no pondering on what happened before, no regret, NOTHING. It's just presented to us as is and we're supposed to just accept it without these things ever being addressed. It's lazy writing. You have no idea what you are talking about. Like half of those paragraphs are literally "flawed character = bad character" and the rest are complete misrepresentation and desperate nitpicking. I mean, you could just read "TLDR" part at the bottom, which is quite hyperbolic, but still. You pointed out one point from the OP's post and have harped on and on about it without addressing anything else. You're just making general claims in an attempt to defend the character. How do you explain Chisato claiming she cares about human life and preserving them, but having no reaction at all to any of her teammates being killed in brutal ways? Or the fact she's been nonchalant about the whole Majima situation at best. Or how about the fact she doesn't even follow her own advice? She criticized Fuki for getting too close to an opponent and told her it's an easy way for her to be disarmed by her opponent, only for her to do that exact same mistake 2 episodes later. These are just a FEW examples of the lazy and incompetent writing we've seen throughout this show. Well, sorry that I just targeted one garbage point out of 10 and focused on it way more then I should, because I did not wanted bothering deconstructing the rest. I guess authors are very sorry, that highway scene was not handled exactly as you wanted and they definitely should expect that some people would have a wrong impression that someone might die there. Anyway, you are keep saying that "flawed character = bad character". That is wrong. Hypocrisy is a flaw. Chisato is a hypocrite at times, because she is a human. She is not even particularly intelligent. An I don't know how advising Fuki for coming too close is a bad thing, becsuse that's logical, while Chisato has no problem dodging point blank shots and Fuki can't. Lol WHAT? I have never once said in this entire thread that a flawed character is a bad character. In fact most S tier characters have flaws that make them more relatable. The issue with Chisato's flaws are that they're not even really treated as flaws in the first place. And advising Fuki isn't a bad thing. The problem is that she criticized her for making a rookie mistake, yet went on to make that exact rookie mistake despite being the best Lycoris in the country. That goes beyond just not being "smart". Her experience and skill should never have her making that error in the first place. Then maybe you should reread your post, because you seem to have problem with Chisato being a little bit selfish. And I'm not sure what are you implying by "treates as flaws", because if it's people not calling her out on it, then... well... XD The thing is, those flaws make her character not as predictable as Mary Sue characters like Kirito or Tatsuya. That's their entire purpose. If you really think, that she will be completely different, unrecognizable person by the end, then you are wrong. And you still don't get it why Cbisato is allowed to get into melle range, but others shouldn't? It might have something to do with her incredible reflexes or something... Her being selfish goes against her ideals of wanting to save lies and how much she values human lives though. No one is saying she should be the arbiter of justice and go on a rampage avenging people who were killed. The point is she doesn't even think about it or seem to care at all. How can we then buy her arguments against Yoshi or her excuse for not killing him? Chisato isn't a Mary Sue, but there are too many instances where her own ideals and beliefs are betrayed by Chisato herself. And her "incredible reflexes" sure did save her against Majima! The rookie mistake that she criticized her ally for DEFINITELY didn't backfire on her or anything! Ye, she doesn't care about them. You seem to get it. But she does care about Yoshi, because he is literally a father figure for her, who saved her life. But she doesn't care about DA stuff. And she does not really care about "preserving life", but about not staining her hands. Big distinction. Maybe I paraphrased it wrong earlier, but whatever. So why should we cheer for Chisato in the first place then? She only cares about not getting her own hands dirty right? Which explains why she's completely indifferent to the amount of people that have been killed in or because of her line of work. Why should we as the audience be on her side then? |
Sep 22, 2022 4:10 PM
#107
Secret333 said: thunderkitten667 said: Secret333 said: thunderkitten667 said: This onslaught of hate for Lycoris Recoil makes me laugh. You have a show like Made in Abyss where people somehow applaud Bondrewd who literally tore children apart just so he can use them as his little power cells, or Chainsaw Man everyone says is the best story since sliced bread when Denji the main character is just a 16 year old who’s single motivation in the beginning is booba...but no, Chisato is a terrible character, a character who despite how insufferable it was to watch, stood by her belief of not killing, despite being the BEST killer in Japan period, and has adopted a sense of optimism she places on her own life and towards others as demonstrated when she cared for one of the terrorist’s wounds during the operation with Walnut...I don’t know, her motivations may seem one dimensional but she’s been a fairly solid and consistent character from day one. She never did anything outside of what she spoke or made herself out to be. Her goals and morals are complex, and make for interesting conflict in the world of Lycoris Recoil, which is THE BEST dynamic you can have in any piece of writing, when the character is directly at odds with the environment around them, consatantly leading to interesting exchanges. If this show displayed bad ass waifus killing and chewing bubblegum, then it would just be Black Lagoon, but that show already exists...The story beats may not always be the most interesting, but the fact that Chsiato’s character has always lived but her beliefs and demonstrated it time and time again while also being at odds with even the one she loves the most Takina is good writing. The conflict is always fresh, the fire is always tended to, the audience is always anticipating how it will come to bite Chsiato’s heel later on, you know, like “well if it isn’t the consequences of my own actions”...I mean, you have a movie like Batman V Superman where Batman literally flings thousand pound crates at people’s heads and fires rockets at people despite having a “no kill” policy...but no...Chisato bad...? That's great and all. Can you answer any of my points now? Also:"The audience is always anticipating how it will come to bite chisato's heel later on" Yeah, I was anticipating that. Unfortunately the anime doesn't seem too concerned with giving Chisato any consequences for her no-kill rule so... If you think she’s had zero consequences, you literally have not been watching this anime lol. What consequenses? That the crazy evil guy decided to end her life because she's not using her powers the way he wants her to? Yeah I talked about that when I saw it. Let me tell you where the anime doesn't give her any consequences: She didn't kill Majima at the tower 10 years ago so he's alive and he's done many terrorist things around the world, came back to Japan and caused the subway incident that killed many Lycorises. Then she got a headshot on him in episode 6, but because of her shitty bullets he's alive and massacres a police office the next episode. Then she let's him go when he was right in front of her in episode 8, leading to him spreading a thousand guns across the city, and so many people dying on screen, let alone off-screen. Now tell me, does the show address any of that? Does it ever weigh on Chisato's concience that none of this would've happened if she finished him, or fuck me even apprehended him? Does anyone ever blame her for Majima being free? Did she even need to kill Yoshi to stop him from killing Takina? I watched the show alright. Something you would've known if you read my post. But sure, mockingly say that I didn't actiually watch the show. Makes things very convenient for you when you don't have to address any of my points, am I right? *Show us on the picture where this anime hurt you* I don’t understand why you are over analyzing a show like Lycoris Recoil. It’s as clear as a coat of paint what it’s messages have been and the motivations for the characters have been consistent. It’s only your fault you are this frustrated over this type of anime, an anime where a running gag where for half an episode Takina gushed over creating a desert that looked like a piece of dog shit... |
Sep 22, 2022 4:10 PM
#108
Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: Secret333 said: Piromysl said: Secret333 said: Piromysl said: Secret333 said: Ionliosite2 said: Don't worry OP, I actually read thought your wall of text. 1- Yeah, if I'm told that 4 people that I don't care anything about and that I also probably don't know died then I might not care as well, call me weird or cold, but it's the truth. 2- I think I no longer remember episode 8. 3- Yes, she killed no one, and no one died, so no betraying of her morals and beliefs. 4- This is just the same as "why does the bad guy sent minions to fight the MC and doesn't he go to kill him before he gets strong?" type of thinking, just convenient writting, so I agree with you that she was weird that scene. 5- Yes, people can be selfish, welcome to reality. She knows that her heart wouldn't have lasted forever either way and it is her desition that she is fine without their help. 7- But Takina isn't dead... 8- Didn't she say that she let Yoshi go because she is grateful to him? And you are also saying your reasoning that she doesn't kill people. As if he could have been tied, probably. 10- How was she supposed to react when he just appeared out of nowhere? At least I don't know if she saw him walking before shooting. The ones I didn't answer I tink because they were extensions of just the previous one and the 6 you yourself said that it was something you found funny. You can find my reasoning faulty since I already started to forget the small details and just remember the important ones. I don't think she is a terrible character, but also definitely not a great one either. 1-If someone told you someone targeted and killed 4 people who are in the same business as you, wear the same uniforms, for the fact that they work in the same field, How would you recive that info? I would take few days off until situation settles down. Also, Chisato is not really in DA. And does not wear the same uniform. I think it was quite heavily emphasized. You sound like you'd take that situation seriously. Now tell me if chisato does that. She's a lycoris like them, the cafe is a subsidiary of the DA and recieves funding from them, and she is wearing the same uniform. Just because the color is different doesn't mean everything else about the design is. Yea, I would totally take situation seriously and NOT do try to avenge strangers, which is not my business. Chisato's entire character is that she refuses to kill people and you are complaining, that she is not going on a rampage... I kept her no killing rule in mind and I said, multiple times, that she doesn't even try to arrest or apprehend the people responsible for numerous deaths. I never said she should go on a rampage. I would expect her to be calm, but still show care for the crimes committed. She doesn't. She's not Batman bruh. Get over it. You are keep trying to force your own morals on others, which is kinda iffy. And she does arrest/restrain hostiles if she can. She literally has a wiregun thingy. OP isn't forcing his morals on anyone. He's criticizing the character because she betrays her own morals. Funny you mention the wire gun because OP literally addresses it and uses it to criticize her not apprehending Yoshi in the latest episode. So, once again, "flawed character/hypocrisy = bad writing". Dismissed. And I forgot to mention, that if DA would get to him, he would be fkin dead, so... How many times does it need to be said? Flawed character is NOT the problem. The problem is that the flaw isn't addressed or even acknowledged. |
Sep 22, 2022 4:10 PM
#109
SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: RogerCop said: You're correct, she just a bland character, not a bad one, simply bland. And she isn't frustrated, she clearly isn't a reactionary type, she simply is the living incarnation of Yolo and nothing else. The show is the one badly written, and takina is missed potential. I'm pretty sure I, just like many others correctly analysed what we have seen and it's quite literally in our faces. Secret333 said: So because she's harrassed it's understandable to possibly kill them? My point is that the show doesn't acknowledge how fucked up that is and apparently neither do you. And I emphasize how innocent they are because they fucking are. Honking at someone doesn't make you deserve the fucking death sentence. "And they were not in any danger of losing their lives" You have no reason to belive that. You just have to because it makes the scene less shit. I never tried to force my morals at her. I evaluated her actions based on her own morals. And if a character acts against their morals, it should be acknowledged by the story. That scene was just brushed aside. So it's not a character flaw, it's just a fuck up in the writing. They wanted to show how sad she is and ended up making her almost kill people without realizing it. Just like you have no reason to believe they were in danger? Something tells me, that authors will agree with me and your reaching is kinda irrelevant, because you just desperately want to see this scene more shit than it actually is. It's brushed aside because there is completely nothing more to it. And I am emphasizing how they do not deserve sympathy, because they don't deserve sympathy lol. That's why they were portrayed as jackasses. They did not deserved death and they did not died. You are seriously wondering why people refuse to read this wall of text? I did and lost some braincells in the process. You just do not pay attention what you are watching, think that character being put in moral dilemma makes them a bad character and somehow reach really far due to your bias. WTF?! You don't get it do you? The OP isn't against putting characters in moral dilemmas or against them having flaws. The problem is the fact that these flaws or dilemmas aren't expanded upon...AT ALL. No introspection, no pondering on what happened before, no regret, NOTHING. It's just presented to us as is and we're supposed to just accept it without these things ever being addressed. It's lazy writing. You have no idea what you are talking about. Like half of those paragraphs are literally "flawed character = bad character" and the rest are complete misrepresentation and desperate nitpicking. I mean, you could just read "TLDR" part at the bottom, which is quite hyperbolic, but still. You pointed out one point from the OP's post and have harped on and on about it without addressing anything else. You're just making general claims in an attempt to defend the character. How do you explain Chisato claiming she cares about human life and preserving them, but having no reaction at all to any of her teammates being killed in brutal ways? Or the fact she's been nonchalant about the whole Majima situation at best. Or how about the fact she doesn't even follow her own advice? She criticized Fuki for getting too close to an opponent and told her it's an easy way for her to be disarmed by her opponent, only for her to do that exact same mistake 2 episodes later. These are just a FEW examples of the lazy and incompetent writing we've seen throughout this show. Well, sorry that I just targeted one garbage point out of 10 and focused on it way more then I should, because I did not wanted bothering deconstructing the rest. I guess authors are very sorry, that highway scene was not handled exactly as you wanted and they definitely should expect that some people would have a wrong impression that someone might die there. Anyway, you are keep saying that "flawed character = bad character". That is wrong. Hypocrisy is a flaw. Chisato is a hypocrite at times, because she is a human. She is not even particularly intelligent. An I don't know how advising Fuki for coming too close is a bad thing, becsuse that's logical, while Chisato has no problem dodging point blank shots and Fuki can't. Lol WHAT? I have never once said in this entire thread that a flawed character is a bad character. In fact most S tier characters have flaws that make them more relatable. The issue with Chisato's flaws are that they're not even really treated as flaws in the first place. And advising Fuki isn't a bad thing. The problem is that she criticized her for making a rookie mistake, yet went on to make that exact rookie mistake despite being the best Lycoris in the country. That goes beyond just not being "smart". Her experience and skill should never have her making that error in the first place. Then maybe you should reread your post, because you seem to have problem with Chisato being a little bit selfish. And I'm not sure what are you implying by "treates as flaws", because if it's people not calling her out on it, then... well... XD The thing is, those flaws make her character not as predictable as Mary Sue characters like Kirito or Tatsuya. That's their entire purpose. If you really think, that she will be completely different, unrecognizable person by the end, then you are wrong. And you still don't get it why Cbisato is allowed to get into melle range, but others shouldn't? It might have something to do with her incredible reflexes or something... Her being selfish goes against her ideals of wanting to save lies and how much she values human lives though. No one is saying she should be the arbiter of justice and go on a rampage avenging people who were killed. The point is she doesn't even think about it or seem to care at all. How can we then buy her arguments against Yoshi or her excuse for not killing him? Chisato isn't a Mary Sue, but there are too many instances where her own ideals and beliefs are betrayed by Chisato herself. And her "incredible reflexes" sure did save her against Majima! The rookie mistake that she criticized her ally for DEFINITELY didn't backfire on her or anything! Ye, she doesn't care about them. You seem to get it. But she does care about Yoshi, because he is literally a father figure for her, who saved her life. But she doesn't care about DA stuff. And she does not really care about "preserving life", but about not staining her hands. Big distinction. Maybe I paraphrased it wrong earlier, but whatever. So why should we cheer for Chisato in the first place then? She only cares about not getting her own hands dirty right? Which explains why she's completely indifferent to the amount of people that have been killed in or because of her line of work. Why should we as the audience be on her side then? Now you are somehow try to imply that people died because of her. Wow. Just wow. |
Hibiki Tachibana from Symphogear is THE worst protagonist in all anime. No hyperbole or exaggeration. |
Sep 22, 2022 4:12 PM
#110
Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: RogerCop said: You're correct, she just a bland character, not a bad one, simply bland. And she isn't frustrated, she clearly isn't a reactionary type, she simply is the living incarnation of Yolo and nothing else. The show is the one badly written, and takina is missed potential. I'm pretty sure I, just like many others correctly analysed what we have seen and it's quite literally in our faces. Secret333 said: So because she's harrassed it's understandable to possibly kill them? My point is that the show doesn't acknowledge how fucked up that is and apparently neither do you. And I emphasize how innocent they are because they fucking are. Honking at someone doesn't make you deserve the fucking death sentence. "And they were not in any danger of losing their lives" You have no reason to belive that. You just have to because it makes the scene less shit. I never tried to force my morals at her. I evaluated her actions based on her own morals. And if a character acts against their morals, it should be acknowledged by the story. That scene was just brushed aside. So it's not a character flaw, it's just a fuck up in the writing. They wanted to show how sad she is and ended up making her almost kill people without realizing it. Just like you have no reason to believe they were in danger? Something tells me, that authors will agree with me and your reaching is kinda irrelevant, because you just desperately want to see this scene more shit than it actually is. It's brushed aside because there is completely nothing more to it. And I am emphasizing how they do not deserve sympathy, because they don't deserve sympathy lol. That's why they were portrayed as jackasses. They did not deserved death and they did not died. You are seriously wondering why people refuse to read this wall of text? I did and lost some braincells in the process. You just do not pay attention what you are watching, think that character being put in moral dilemma makes them a bad character and somehow reach really far due to your bias. WTF?! You don't get it do you? The OP isn't against putting characters in moral dilemmas or against them having flaws. The problem is the fact that these flaws or dilemmas aren't expanded upon...AT ALL. No introspection, no pondering on what happened before, no regret, NOTHING. It's just presented to us as is and we're supposed to just accept it without these things ever being addressed. It's lazy writing. You have no idea what you are talking about. Like half of those paragraphs are literally "flawed character = bad character" and the rest are complete misrepresentation and desperate nitpicking. I mean, you could just read "TLDR" part at the bottom, which is quite hyperbolic, but still. You pointed out one point from the OP's post and have harped on and on about it without addressing anything else. You're just making general claims in an attempt to defend the character. How do you explain Chisato claiming she cares about human life and preserving them, but having no reaction at all to any of her teammates being killed in brutal ways? Or the fact she's been nonchalant about the whole Majima situation at best. Or how about the fact she doesn't even follow her own advice? She criticized Fuki for getting too close to an opponent and told her it's an easy way for her to be disarmed by her opponent, only for her to do that exact same mistake 2 episodes later. These are just a FEW examples of the lazy and incompetent writing we've seen throughout this show. Well, sorry that I just targeted one garbage point out of 10 and focused on it way more then I should, because I did not wanted bothering deconstructing the rest. I guess authors are very sorry, that highway scene was not handled exactly as you wanted and they definitely should expect that some people would have a wrong impression that someone might die there. Anyway, you are keep saying that "flawed character = bad character". That is wrong. Hypocrisy is a flaw. Chisato is a hypocrite at times, because she is a human. She is not even particularly intelligent. An I don't know how advising Fuki for coming too close is a bad thing, becsuse that's logical, while Chisato has no problem dodging point blank shots and Fuki can't. Lol WHAT? I have never once said in this entire thread that a flawed character is a bad character. In fact most S tier characters have flaws that make them more relatable. The issue with Chisato's flaws are that they're not even really treated as flaws in the first place. And advising Fuki isn't a bad thing. The problem is that she criticized her for making a rookie mistake, yet went on to make that exact rookie mistake despite being the best Lycoris in the country. That goes beyond just not being "smart". Her experience and skill should never have her making that error in the first place. Then maybe you should reread your post, because you seem to have problem with Chisato being a little bit selfish. And I'm not sure what are you implying by "treates as flaws", because if it's people not calling her out on it, then... well... XD The thing is, those flaws make her character not as predictable as Mary Sue characters like Kirito or Tatsuya. That's their entire purpose. If you really think, that she will be completely different, unrecognizable person by the end, then you are wrong. And you still don't get it why Cbisato is allowed to get into melle range, but others shouldn't? It might have something to do with her incredible reflexes or something... Her being selfish goes against her ideals of wanting to save lies and how much she values human lives though. No one is saying she should be the arbiter of justice and go on a rampage avenging people who were killed. The point is she doesn't even think about it or seem to care at all. How can we then buy her arguments against Yoshi or her excuse for not killing him? Chisato isn't a Mary Sue, but there are too many instances where her own ideals and beliefs are betrayed by Chisato herself. And her "incredible reflexes" sure did save her against Majima! The rookie mistake that she criticized her ally for DEFINITELY didn't backfire on her or anything! Ye, she doesn't care about them. You seem to get it. But she does care about Yoshi, because he is literally a father figure for her, who saved her life. But she doesn't care about DA stuff. And she does not really care about "preserving life", but about not staining her hands. Big distinction. Maybe I paraphrased it wrong earlier, but whatever. So why should we cheer for Chisato in the first place then? She only cares about not getting her own hands dirty right? Which explains why she's completely indifferent to the amount of people that have been killed in or because of her line of work. Why should we as the audience be on her side then? Now you are somehow try to imply that people died because of her. Wow. Just wow. Do you have reading comprehension issues? Because in no way have I even implied that people have died because of her. Read what I said again...slowly. |
Sep 22, 2022 4:13 PM
#111
SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: Secret333 said: Piromysl said: Secret333 said: Piromysl said: Secret333 said: Ionliosite2 said: Don't worry OP, I actually read thought your wall of text. 1- Yeah, if I'm told that 4 people that I don't care anything about and that I also probably don't know died then I might not care as well, call me weird or cold, but it's the truth. 2- I think I no longer remember episode 8. 3- Yes, she killed no one, and no one died, so no betraying of her morals and beliefs. 4- This is just the same as "why does the bad guy sent minions to fight the MC and doesn't he go to kill him before he gets strong?" type of thinking, just convenient writting, so I agree with you that she was weird that scene. 5- Yes, people can be selfish, welcome to reality. She knows that her heart wouldn't have lasted forever either way and it is her desition that she is fine without their help. 7- But Takina isn't dead... 8- Didn't she say that she let Yoshi go because she is grateful to him? And you are also saying your reasoning that she doesn't kill people. As if he could have been tied, probably. 10- How was she supposed to react when he just appeared out of nowhere? At least I don't know if she saw him walking before shooting. The ones I didn't answer I tink because they were extensions of just the previous one and the 6 you yourself said that it was something you found funny. You can find my reasoning faulty since I already started to forget the small details and just remember the important ones. I don't think she is a terrible character, but also definitely not a great one either. 1-If someone told you someone targeted and killed 4 people who are in the same business as you, wear the same uniforms, for the fact that they work in the same field, How would you recive that info? I would take few days off until situation settles down. Also, Chisato is not really in DA. And does not wear the same uniform. I think it was quite heavily emphasized. You sound like you'd take that situation seriously. Now tell me if chisato does that. She's a lycoris like them, the cafe is a subsidiary of the DA and recieves funding from them, and she is wearing the same uniform. Just because the color is different doesn't mean everything else about the design is. Yea, I would totally take situation seriously and NOT do try to avenge strangers, which is not my business. Chisato's entire character is that she refuses to kill people and you are complaining, that she is not going on a rampage... I kept her no killing rule in mind and I said, multiple times, that she doesn't even try to arrest or apprehend the people responsible for numerous deaths. I never said she should go on a rampage. I would expect her to be calm, but still show care for the crimes committed. She doesn't. She's not Batman bruh. Get over it. You are keep trying to force your own morals on others, which is kinda iffy. And she does arrest/restrain hostiles if she can. She literally has a wiregun thingy. OP isn't forcing his morals on anyone. He's criticizing the character because she betrays her own morals. Funny you mention the wire gun because OP literally addresses it and uses it to criticize her not apprehending Yoshi in the latest episode. So, once again, "flawed character/hypocrisy = bad writing". Dismissed. And I forgot to mention, that if DA would get to him, he would be fkin dead, so... How many times does it need to be said? Flawed character is NOT the problem. The problem is that the flaw isn't addressed or even acknowledged. And ep 12 is ENTIRELY about this. And it doesn't even need to be "addressed", but it should impact her decision making and it does. |
Hibiki Tachibana from Symphogear is THE worst protagonist in all anime. No hyperbole or exaggeration. |
Sep 22, 2022 4:14 PM
#112
SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: RogerCop said: You're correct, she just a bland character, not a bad one, simply bland. And she isn't frustrated, she clearly isn't a reactionary type, she simply is the living incarnation of Yolo and nothing else. The show is the one badly written, and takina is missed potential. I'm pretty sure I, just like many others correctly analysed what we have seen and it's quite literally in our faces. Secret333 said: So because she's harrassed it's understandable to possibly kill them? My point is that the show doesn't acknowledge how fucked up that is and apparently neither do you. And I emphasize how innocent they are because they fucking are. Honking at someone doesn't make you deserve the fucking death sentence. "And they were not in any danger of losing their lives" You have no reason to belive that. You just have to because it makes the scene less shit. I never tried to force my morals at her. I evaluated her actions based on her own morals. And if a character acts against their morals, it should be acknowledged by the story. That scene was just brushed aside. So it's not a character flaw, it's just a fuck up in the writing. They wanted to show how sad she is and ended up making her almost kill people without realizing it. Just like you have no reason to believe they were in danger? Something tells me, that authors will agree with me and your reaching is kinda irrelevant, because you just desperately want to see this scene more shit than it actually is. It's brushed aside because there is completely nothing more to it. And I am emphasizing how they do not deserve sympathy, because they don't deserve sympathy lol. That's why they were portrayed as jackasses. They did not deserved death and they did not died. You are seriously wondering why people refuse to read this wall of text? I did and lost some braincells in the process. You just do not pay attention what you are watching, think that character being put in moral dilemma makes them a bad character and somehow reach really far due to your bias. WTF?! You don't get it do you? The OP isn't against putting characters in moral dilemmas or against them having flaws. The problem is the fact that these flaws or dilemmas aren't expanded upon...AT ALL. No introspection, no pondering on what happened before, no regret, NOTHING. It's just presented to us as is and we're supposed to just accept it without these things ever being addressed. It's lazy writing. You have no idea what you are talking about. Like half of those paragraphs are literally "flawed character = bad character" and the rest are complete misrepresentation and desperate nitpicking. I mean, you could just read "TLDR" part at the bottom, which is quite hyperbolic, but still. You pointed out one point from the OP's post and have harped on and on about it without addressing anything else. You're just making general claims in an attempt to defend the character. How do you explain Chisato claiming she cares about human life and preserving them, but having no reaction at all to any of her teammates being killed in brutal ways? Or the fact she's been nonchalant about the whole Majima situation at best. Or how about the fact she doesn't even follow her own advice? She criticized Fuki for getting too close to an opponent and told her it's an easy way for her to be disarmed by her opponent, only for her to do that exact same mistake 2 episodes later. These are just a FEW examples of the lazy and incompetent writing we've seen throughout this show. Well, sorry that I just targeted one garbage point out of 10 and focused on it way more then I should, because I did not wanted bothering deconstructing the rest. I guess authors are very sorry, that highway scene was not handled exactly as you wanted and they definitely should expect that some people would have a wrong impression that someone might die there. Anyway, you are keep saying that "flawed character = bad character". That is wrong. Hypocrisy is a flaw. Chisato is a hypocrite at times, because she is a human. She is not even particularly intelligent. An I don't know how advising Fuki for coming too close is a bad thing, becsuse that's logical, while Chisato has no problem dodging point blank shots and Fuki can't. Lol WHAT? I have never once said in this entire thread that a flawed character is a bad character. In fact most S tier characters have flaws that make them more relatable. The issue with Chisato's flaws are that they're not even really treated as flaws in the first place. And advising Fuki isn't a bad thing. The problem is that she criticized her for making a rookie mistake, yet went on to make that exact rookie mistake despite being the best Lycoris in the country. That goes beyond just not being "smart". Her experience and skill should never have her making that error in the first place. Then maybe you should reread your post, because you seem to have problem with Chisato being a little bit selfish. And I'm not sure what are you implying by "treates as flaws", because if it's people not calling her out on it, then... well... XD The thing is, those flaws make her character not as predictable as Mary Sue characters like Kirito or Tatsuya. That's their entire purpose. If you really think, that she will be completely different, unrecognizable person by the end, then you are wrong. And you still don't get it why Cbisato is allowed to get into melle range, but others shouldn't? It might have something to do with her incredible reflexes or something... Her being selfish goes against her ideals of wanting to save lies and how much she values human lives though. No one is saying she should be the arbiter of justice and go on a rampage avenging people who were killed. The point is she doesn't even think about it or seem to care at all. How can we then buy her arguments against Yoshi or her excuse for not killing him? Chisato isn't a Mary Sue, but there are too many instances where her own ideals and beliefs are betrayed by Chisato herself. And her "incredible reflexes" sure did save her against Majima! The rookie mistake that she criticized her ally for DEFINITELY didn't backfire on her or anything! Ye, she doesn't care about them. You seem to get it. But she does care about Yoshi, because he is literally a father figure for her, who saved her life. But she doesn't care about DA stuff. And she does not really care about "preserving life", but about not staining her hands. Big distinction. Maybe I paraphrased it wrong earlier, but whatever. So why should we cheer for Chisato in the first place then? She only cares about not getting her own hands dirty right? Which explains why she's completely indifferent to the amount of people that have been killed in or because of her line of work. Why should we as the audience be on her side then? Now you are somehow try to imply that people died because of her. Wow. Just wow. Do you have reading comprehension issues? Because in no way have I even implied that people have died because of her. Read what I said again...slowly. Then maybe you should phrase it correctly, because that's quite literally what you wrote. |
Hibiki Tachibana from Symphogear is THE worst protagonist in all anime. No hyperbole or exaggeration. |
Sep 22, 2022 4:15 PM
#113
Piromysl said: Secret333 said: Piromysl said: Secret333 said: Piromysl said: Secret333 said: Piromysl said: Secret333 said: Ionliosite2 said: Don't worry OP, I actually read thought your wall of text. 1- Yeah, if I'm told that 4 people that I don't care anything about and that I also probably don't know died then I might not care as well, call me weird or cold, but it's the truth. 2- I think I no longer remember episode 8. 3- Yes, she killed no one, and no one died, so no betraying of her morals and beliefs. 4- This is just the same as "why does the bad guy sent minions to fight the MC and doesn't he go to kill him before he gets strong?" type of thinking, just convenient writting, so I agree with you that she was weird that scene. 5- Yes, people can be selfish, welcome to reality. She knows that her heart wouldn't have lasted forever either way and it is her desition that she is fine without their help. 7- But Takina isn't dead... 8- Didn't she say that she let Yoshi go because she is grateful to him? And you are also saying your reasoning that she doesn't kill people. As if he could have been tied, probably. 10- How was she supposed to react when he just appeared out of nowhere? At least I don't know if she saw him walking before shooting. The ones I didn't answer I tink because they were extensions of just the previous one and the 6 you yourself said that it was something you found funny. You can find my reasoning faulty since I already started to forget the small details and just remember the important ones. I don't think she is a terrible character, but also definitely not a great one either. 1-If someone told you someone targeted and killed 4 people who are in the same business as you, wear the same uniforms, for the fact that they work in the same field, How would you recive that info? I would take few days off until situation settles down. Also, Chisato is not really in DA. And does not wear the same uniform. I think it was quite heavily emphasized. You sound like you'd take that situation seriously. Now tell me if chisato does that. She's a lycoris like them, the cafe is a subsidiary of the DA and recieves funding from them, and she is wearing the same uniform. Just because the color is different doesn't mean everything else about the design is. Yea, I would totally take situation seriously and NOT do try to avenge strangers, which is not my business. Chisato's entire character is that she refuses to kill people and you are complaining, that she is not going on a rampage... I kept her no killing rule in mind and I said, multiple times, that she doesn't even try to arrest or apprehend the people responsible for numerous deaths. I never said she should go on a rampage. I would expect her to be calm, but still show care for the crimes committed. She doesn't. She's not Batman bruh. Get over it. You are keep trying to force your own morals on others, which is kinda iffy. And she does arrest/restrain hostiles if she can. She literally has a wiregun thingy. I never tried to force my morals on anyone. Who the fuck compared her to batman? And Why oh why does she not use her wiregun thingy to chain Yoshi the terrorist funder? You are constantly complaining that Chisato does not act as you would and doesn't bother you avenge some strangers. You expect her to take justice into her own hands like some sort of Batman. And she let Yoshi go literally because he is like a father to her and owns him her life. She doesn't give a slightest flying fuck about this whole DA stuff, which was emphasized A LOT. She doesn't consider herself and enforcer of justice or anything like that. She states that her mission is to be a savior. Have you forgotten about that? She doesn't feel right to take people's lives away from them, but A-OK with terrorists taking people's lives away from them? Nice logical thinking there. "I hate people who waste their lives" says Chisato in the last episode. I would like you to imagine how she feels about people who waste other people's lives. The show doesn't realize that it made her careless, that's why there's a disconnet between what you say she is, and what the show thinks she is. |
Sep 22, 2022 4:18 PM
#114
Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: Secret333 said: Piromysl said: Secret333 said: Piromysl said: Secret333 said: Ionliosite2 said: Don't worry OP, I actually read thought your wall of text. 1- Yeah, if I'm told that 4 people that I don't care anything about and that I also probably don't know died then I might not care as well, call me weird or cold, but it's the truth. 2- I think I no longer remember episode 8. 3- Yes, she killed no one, and no one died, so no betraying of her morals and beliefs. 4- This is just the same as "why does the bad guy sent minions to fight the MC and doesn't he go to kill him before he gets strong?" type of thinking, just convenient writting, so I agree with you that she was weird that scene. 5- Yes, people can be selfish, welcome to reality. She knows that her heart wouldn't have lasted forever either way and it is her desition that she is fine without their help. 7- But Takina isn't dead... 8- Didn't she say that she let Yoshi go because she is grateful to him? And you are also saying your reasoning that she doesn't kill people. As if he could have been tied, probably. 10- How was she supposed to react when he just appeared out of nowhere? At least I don't know if she saw him walking before shooting. The ones I didn't answer I tink because they were extensions of just the previous one and the 6 you yourself said that it was something you found funny. You can find my reasoning faulty since I already started to forget the small details and just remember the important ones. I don't think she is a terrible character, but also definitely not a great one either. 1-If someone told you someone targeted and killed 4 people who are in the same business as you, wear the same uniforms, for the fact that they work in the same field, How would you recive that info? I would take few days off until situation settles down. Also, Chisato is not really in DA. And does not wear the same uniform. I think it was quite heavily emphasized. You sound like you'd take that situation seriously. Now tell me if chisato does that. She's a lycoris like them, the cafe is a subsidiary of the DA and recieves funding from them, and she is wearing the same uniform. Just because the color is different doesn't mean everything else about the design is. Yea, I would totally take situation seriously and NOT do try to avenge strangers, which is not my business. Chisato's entire character is that she refuses to kill people and you are complaining, that she is not going on a rampage... I kept her no killing rule in mind and I said, multiple times, that she doesn't even try to arrest or apprehend the people responsible for numerous deaths. I never said she should go on a rampage. I would expect her to be calm, but still show care for the crimes committed. She doesn't. She's not Batman bruh. Get over it. You are keep trying to force your own morals on others, which is kinda iffy. And she does arrest/restrain hostiles if she can. She literally has a wiregun thingy. OP isn't forcing his morals on anyone. He's criticizing the character because she betrays her own morals. Funny you mention the wire gun because OP literally addresses it and uses it to criticize her not apprehending Yoshi in the latest episode. So, once again, "flawed character/hypocrisy = bad writing". Dismissed. And I forgot to mention, that if DA would get to him, he would be fkin dead, so... How many times does it need to be said? Flawed character is NOT the problem. The problem is that the flaw isn't addressed or even acknowledged. And ep 12 is ENTIRELY about this. And it doesn't even need to be "addressed", but it should impact her decision making and it does. What part of episode 12 addresses the whole indifference about the terrorism and death? The closest we got to that was her somewhat acknowledging Yoshi is a piece of shit after all and having her challenge her ideal of not killing. But it doesn't address the issues OP brought up. |
Sep 22, 2022 4:18 PM
#115
Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: RogerCop said: You're correct, she just a bland character, not a bad one, simply bland. And she isn't frustrated, she clearly isn't a reactionary type, she simply is the living incarnation of Yolo and nothing else. The show is the one badly written, and takina is missed potential. I'm pretty sure I, just like many others correctly analysed what we have seen and it's quite literally in our faces. Secret333 said: So because she's harrassed it's understandable to possibly kill them? My point is that the show doesn't acknowledge how fucked up that is and apparently neither do you. And I emphasize how innocent they are because they fucking are. Honking at someone doesn't make you deserve the fucking death sentence. "And they were not in any danger of losing their lives" You have no reason to belive that. You just have to because it makes the scene less shit. I never tried to force my morals at her. I evaluated her actions based on her own morals. And if a character acts against their morals, it should be acknowledged by the story. That scene was just brushed aside. So it's not a character flaw, it's just a fuck up in the writing. They wanted to show how sad she is and ended up making her almost kill people without realizing it. Just like you have no reason to believe they were in danger? Something tells me, that authors will agree with me and your reaching is kinda irrelevant, because you just desperately want to see this scene more shit than it actually is. It's brushed aside because there is completely nothing more to it. And I am emphasizing how they do not deserve sympathy, because they don't deserve sympathy lol. That's why they were portrayed as jackasses. They did not deserved death and they did not died. You are seriously wondering why people refuse to read this wall of text? I did and lost some braincells in the process. You just do not pay attention what you are watching, think that character being put in moral dilemma makes them a bad character and somehow reach really far due to your bias. WTF?! You don't get it do you? The OP isn't against putting characters in moral dilemmas or against them having flaws. The problem is the fact that these flaws or dilemmas aren't expanded upon...AT ALL. No introspection, no pondering on what happened before, no regret, NOTHING. It's just presented to us as is and we're supposed to just accept it without these things ever being addressed. It's lazy writing. You have no idea what you are talking about. Like half of those paragraphs are literally "flawed character = bad character" and the rest are complete misrepresentation and desperate nitpicking. I mean, you could just read "TLDR" part at the bottom, which is quite hyperbolic, but still. You pointed out one point from the OP's post and have harped on and on about it without addressing anything else. You're just making general claims in an attempt to defend the character. How do you explain Chisato claiming she cares about human life and preserving them, but having no reaction at all to any of her teammates being killed in brutal ways? Or the fact she's been nonchalant about the whole Majima situation at best. Or how about the fact she doesn't even follow her own advice? She criticized Fuki for getting too close to an opponent and told her it's an easy way for her to be disarmed by her opponent, only for her to do that exact same mistake 2 episodes later. These are just a FEW examples of the lazy and incompetent writing we've seen throughout this show. Well, sorry that I just targeted one garbage point out of 10 and focused on it way more then I should, because I did not wanted bothering deconstructing the rest. I guess authors are very sorry, that highway scene was not handled exactly as you wanted and they definitely should expect that some people would have a wrong impression that someone might die there. Anyway, you are keep saying that "flawed character = bad character". That is wrong. Hypocrisy is a flaw. Chisato is a hypocrite at times, because she is a human. She is not even particularly intelligent. An I don't know how advising Fuki for coming too close is a bad thing, becsuse that's logical, while Chisato has no problem dodging point blank shots and Fuki can't. Lol WHAT? I have never once said in this entire thread that a flawed character is a bad character. In fact most S tier characters have flaws that make them more relatable. The issue with Chisato's flaws are that they're not even really treated as flaws in the first place. And advising Fuki isn't a bad thing. The problem is that she criticized her for making a rookie mistake, yet went on to make that exact rookie mistake despite being the best Lycoris in the country. That goes beyond just not being "smart". Her experience and skill should never have her making that error in the first place. Then maybe you should reread your post, because you seem to have problem with Chisato being a little bit selfish. And I'm not sure what are you implying by "treates as flaws", because if it's people not calling her out on it, then... well... XD The thing is, those flaws make her character not as predictable as Mary Sue characters like Kirito or Tatsuya. That's their entire purpose. If you really think, that she will be completely different, unrecognizable person by the end, then you are wrong. And you still don't get it why Cbisato is allowed to get into melle range, but others shouldn't? It might have something to do with her incredible reflexes or something... Her being selfish goes against her ideals of wanting to save lies and how much she values human lives though. No one is saying she should be the arbiter of justice and go on a rampage avenging people who were killed. The point is she doesn't even think about it or seem to care at all. How can we then buy her arguments against Yoshi or her excuse for not killing him? Chisato isn't a Mary Sue, but there are too many instances where her own ideals and beliefs are betrayed by Chisato herself. And her "incredible reflexes" sure did save her against Majima! The rookie mistake that she criticized her ally for DEFINITELY didn't backfire on her or anything! Ye, she doesn't care about them. You seem to get it. But she does care about Yoshi, because he is literally a father figure for her, who saved her life. But she doesn't care about DA stuff. And she does not really care about "preserving life", but about not staining her hands. Big distinction. Maybe I paraphrased it wrong earlier, but whatever. So why should we cheer for Chisato in the first place then? She only cares about not getting her own hands dirty right? Which explains why she's completely indifferent to the amount of people that have been killed in or because of her line of work. Why should we as the audience be on her side then? Now you are somehow try to imply that people died because of her. Wow. Just wow. THEY FUCKING DID THOUGH FFS |
Sep 22, 2022 4:19 PM
#116
Secret333 said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: RogerCop said: You're correct, she just a bland character, not a bad one, simply bland. And she isn't frustrated, she clearly isn't a reactionary type, she simply is the living incarnation of Yolo and nothing else. The show is the one badly written, and takina is missed potential. I'm pretty sure I, just like many others correctly analysed what we have seen and it's quite literally in our faces. Secret333 said: So because she's harrassed it's understandable to possibly kill them? My point is that the show doesn't acknowledge how fucked up that is and apparently neither do you. And I emphasize how innocent they are because they fucking are. Honking at someone doesn't make you deserve the fucking death sentence. "And they were not in any danger of losing their lives" You have no reason to belive that. You just have to because it makes the scene less shit. I never tried to force my morals at her. I evaluated her actions based on her own morals. And if a character acts against their morals, it should be acknowledged by the story. That scene was just brushed aside. So it's not a character flaw, it's just a fuck up in the writing. They wanted to show how sad she is and ended up making her almost kill people without realizing it. Just like you have no reason to believe they were in danger? Something tells me, that authors will agree with me and your reaching is kinda irrelevant, because you just desperately want to see this scene more shit than it actually is. It's brushed aside because there is completely nothing more to it. And I am emphasizing how they do not deserve sympathy, because they don't deserve sympathy lol. That's why they were portrayed as jackasses. They did not deserved death and they did not died. You are seriously wondering why people refuse to read this wall of text? I did and lost some braincells in the process. You just do not pay attention what you are watching, think that character being put in moral dilemma makes them a bad character and somehow reach really far due to your bias. WTF?! You don't get it do you? The OP isn't against putting characters in moral dilemmas or against them having flaws. The problem is the fact that these flaws or dilemmas aren't expanded upon...AT ALL. No introspection, no pondering on what happened before, no regret, NOTHING. It's just presented to us as is and we're supposed to just accept it without these things ever being addressed. It's lazy writing. You have no idea what you are talking about. Like half of those paragraphs are literally "flawed character = bad character" and the rest are complete misrepresentation and desperate nitpicking. I mean, you could just read "TLDR" part at the bottom, which is quite hyperbolic, but still. You pointed out one point from the OP's post and have harped on and on about it without addressing anything else. You're just making general claims in an attempt to defend the character. How do you explain Chisato claiming she cares about human life and preserving them, but having no reaction at all to any of her teammates being killed in brutal ways? Or the fact she's been nonchalant about the whole Majima situation at best. Or how about the fact she doesn't even follow her own advice? She criticized Fuki for getting too close to an opponent and told her it's an easy way for her to be disarmed by her opponent, only for her to do that exact same mistake 2 episodes later. These are just a FEW examples of the lazy and incompetent writing we've seen throughout this show. Well, sorry that I just targeted one garbage point out of 10 and focused on it way more then I should, because I did not wanted bothering deconstructing the rest. I guess authors are very sorry, that highway scene was not handled exactly as you wanted and they definitely should expect that some people would have a wrong impression that someone might die there. Anyway, you are keep saying that "flawed character = bad character". That is wrong. Hypocrisy is a flaw. Chisato is a hypocrite at times, because she is a human. She is not even particularly intelligent. An I don't know how advising Fuki for coming too close is a bad thing, becsuse that's logical, while Chisato has no problem dodging point blank shots and Fuki can't. Lol WHAT? I have never once said in this entire thread that a flawed character is a bad character. In fact most S tier characters have flaws that make them more relatable. The issue with Chisato's flaws are that they're not even really treated as flaws in the first place. And advising Fuki isn't a bad thing. The problem is that she criticized her for making a rookie mistake, yet went on to make that exact rookie mistake despite being the best Lycoris in the country. That goes beyond just not being "smart". Her experience and skill should never have her making that error in the first place. Then maybe you should reread your post, because you seem to have problem with Chisato being a little bit selfish. And I'm not sure what are you implying by "treates as flaws", because if it's people not calling her out on it, then... well... XD The thing is, those flaws make her character not as predictable as Mary Sue characters like Kirito or Tatsuya. That's their entire purpose. If you really think, that she will be completely different, unrecognizable person by the end, then you are wrong. And you still don't get it why Cbisato is allowed to get into melle range, but others shouldn't? It might have something to do with her incredible reflexes or something... Her being selfish goes against her ideals of wanting to save lies and how much she values human lives though. No one is saying she should be the arbiter of justice and go on a rampage avenging people who were killed. The point is she doesn't even think about it or seem to care at all. How can we then buy her arguments against Yoshi or her excuse for not killing him? Chisato isn't a Mary Sue, but there are too many instances where her own ideals and beliefs are betrayed by Chisato herself. And her "incredible reflexes" sure did save her against Majima! The rookie mistake that she criticized her ally for DEFINITELY didn't backfire on her or anything! Ye, she doesn't care about them. You seem to get it. But she does care about Yoshi, because he is literally a father figure for her, who saved her life. But she doesn't care about DA stuff. And she does not really care about "preserving life", but about not staining her hands. Big distinction. Maybe I paraphrased it wrong earlier, but whatever. So why should we cheer for Chisato in the first place then? She only cares about not getting her own hands dirty right? Which explains why she's completely indifferent to the amount of people that have been killed in or because of her line of work. Why should we as the audience be on her side then? Now you are somehow try to imply that people died because of her. Wow. Just wow. THEY FUCKING DID THOUGH FFS OP thinks otherwise, apparently. LoL And they totally did, right? |
Hibiki Tachibana from Symphogear is THE worst protagonist in all anime. No hyperbole or exaggeration. |
Sep 22, 2022 4:19 PM
#117
Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: RogerCop said: You're correct, she just a bland character, not a bad one, simply bland. And she isn't frustrated, she clearly isn't a reactionary type, she simply is the living incarnation of Yolo and nothing else. The show is the one badly written, and takina is missed potential. I'm pretty sure I, just like many others correctly analysed what we have seen and it's quite literally in our faces. Secret333 said: So because she's harrassed it's understandable to possibly kill them? My point is that the show doesn't acknowledge how fucked up that is and apparently neither do you. And I emphasize how innocent they are because they fucking are. Honking at someone doesn't make you deserve the fucking death sentence. "And they were not in any danger of losing their lives" You have no reason to belive that. You just have to because it makes the scene less shit. I never tried to force my morals at her. I evaluated her actions based on her own morals. And if a character acts against their morals, it should be acknowledged by the story. That scene was just brushed aside. So it's not a character flaw, it's just a fuck up in the writing. They wanted to show how sad she is and ended up making her almost kill people without realizing it. Just like you have no reason to believe they were in danger? Something tells me, that authors will agree with me and your reaching is kinda irrelevant, because you just desperately want to see this scene more shit than it actually is. It's brushed aside because there is completely nothing more to it. And I am emphasizing how they do not deserve sympathy, because they don't deserve sympathy lol. That's why they were portrayed as jackasses. They did not deserved death and they did not died. You are seriously wondering why people refuse to read this wall of text? I did and lost some braincells in the process. You just do not pay attention what you are watching, think that character being put in moral dilemma makes them a bad character and somehow reach really far due to your bias. WTF?! You don't get it do you? The OP isn't against putting characters in moral dilemmas or against them having flaws. The problem is the fact that these flaws or dilemmas aren't expanded upon...AT ALL. No introspection, no pondering on what happened before, no regret, NOTHING. It's just presented to us as is and we're supposed to just accept it without these things ever being addressed. It's lazy writing. You have no idea what you are talking about. Like half of those paragraphs are literally "flawed character = bad character" and the rest are complete misrepresentation and desperate nitpicking. I mean, you could just read "TLDR" part at the bottom, which is quite hyperbolic, but still. You pointed out one point from the OP's post and have harped on and on about it without addressing anything else. You're just making general claims in an attempt to defend the character. How do you explain Chisato claiming she cares about human life and preserving them, but having no reaction at all to any of her teammates being killed in brutal ways? Or the fact she's been nonchalant about the whole Majima situation at best. Or how about the fact she doesn't even follow her own advice? She criticized Fuki for getting too close to an opponent and told her it's an easy way for her to be disarmed by her opponent, only for her to do that exact same mistake 2 episodes later. These are just a FEW examples of the lazy and incompetent writing we've seen throughout this show. Well, sorry that I just targeted one garbage point out of 10 and focused on it way more then I should, because I did not wanted bothering deconstructing the rest. I guess authors are very sorry, that highway scene was not handled exactly as you wanted and they definitely should expect that some people would have a wrong impression that someone might die there. Anyway, you are keep saying that "flawed character = bad character". That is wrong. Hypocrisy is a flaw. Chisato is a hypocrite at times, because she is a human. She is not even particularly intelligent. An I don't know how advising Fuki for coming too close is a bad thing, becsuse that's logical, while Chisato has no problem dodging point blank shots and Fuki can't. Lol WHAT? I have never once said in this entire thread that a flawed character is a bad character. In fact most S tier characters have flaws that make them more relatable. The issue with Chisato's flaws are that they're not even really treated as flaws in the first place. And advising Fuki isn't a bad thing. The problem is that she criticized her for making a rookie mistake, yet went on to make that exact rookie mistake despite being the best Lycoris in the country. That goes beyond just not being "smart". Her experience and skill should never have her making that error in the first place. Then maybe you should reread your post, because you seem to have problem with Chisato being a little bit selfish. And I'm not sure what are you implying by "treates as flaws", because if it's people not calling her out on it, then... well... XD The thing is, those flaws make her character not as predictable as Mary Sue characters like Kirito or Tatsuya. That's their entire purpose. If you really think, that she will be completely different, unrecognizable person by the end, then you are wrong. And you still don't get it why Cbisato is allowed to get into melle range, but others shouldn't? It might have something to do with her incredible reflexes or something... Her being selfish goes against her ideals of wanting to save lies and how much she values human lives though. No one is saying she should be the arbiter of justice and go on a rampage avenging people who were killed. The point is she doesn't even think about it or seem to care at all. How can we then buy her arguments against Yoshi or her excuse for not killing him? Chisato isn't a Mary Sue, but there are too many instances where her own ideals and beliefs are betrayed by Chisato herself. And her "incredible reflexes" sure did save her against Majima! The rookie mistake that she criticized her ally for DEFINITELY didn't backfire on her or anything! Ye, she doesn't care about them. You seem to get it. But she does care about Yoshi, because he is literally a father figure for her, who saved her life. But she doesn't care about DA stuff. And she does not really care about "preserving life", but about not staining her hands. Big distinction. Maybe I paraphrased it wrong earlier, but whatever. So why should we cheer for Chisato in the first place then? She only cares about not getting her own hands dirty right? Which explains why she's completely indifferent to the amount of people that have been killed in or because of her line of work. Why should we as the audience be on her side then? Now you are somehow try to imply that people died because of her. Wow. Just wow. Do you have reading comprehension issues? Because in no way have I even implied that people have died because of her. Read what I said again...slowly. Then maybe you should phrase it correctly, because that's quite literally what you wrote. So you DO have reading comprehension skills. How does saying that her line of work has caused people to die equate to Chisato herself causing people to die? Her line of work is the whole Lycoris organization. It is a fact that the Lycoris organization has taken countless lives. |
Sep 22, 2022 4:21 PM
#118
Secret333 said: Piromysl said: Secret333 said: Piromysl said: Secret333 said: Piromysl said: Secret333 said: Piromysl said: Secret333 said: Ionliosite2 said: Don't worry OP, I actually read thought your wall of text. 1- Yeah, if I'm told that 4 people that I don't care anything about and that I also probably don't know died then I might not care as well, call me weird or cold, but it's the truth. 2- I think I no longer remember episode 8. 3- Yes, she killed no one, and no one died, so no betraying of her morals and beliefs. 4- This is just the same as "why does the bad guy sent minions to fight the MC and doesn't he go to kill him before he gets strong?" type of thinking, just convenient writting, so I agree with you that she was weird that scene. 5- Yes, people can be selfish, welcome to reality. She knows that her heart wouldn't have lasted forever either way and it is her desition that she is fine without their help. 7- But Takina isn't dead... 8- Didn't she say that she let Yoshi go because she is grateful to him? And you are also saying your reasoning that she doesn't kill people. As if he could have been tied, probably. 10- How was she supposed to react when he just appeared out of nowhere? At least I don't know if she saw him walking before shooting. The ones I didn't answer I tink because they were extensions of just the previous one and the 6 you yourself said that it was something you found funny. You can find my reasoning faulty since I already started to forget the small details and just remember the important ones. I don't think she is a terrible character, but also definitely not a great one either. 1-If someone told you someone targeted and killed 4 people who are in the same business as you, wear the same uniforms, for the fact that they work in the same field, How would you recive that info? I would take few days off until situation settles down. Also, Chisato is not really in DA. And does not wear the same uniform. I think it was quite heavily emphasized. You sound like you'd take that situation seriously. Now tell me if chisato does that. She's a lycoris like them, the cafe is a subsidiary of the DA and recieves funding from them, and she is wearing the same uniform. Just because the color is different doesn't mean everything else about the design is. Yea, I would totally take situation seriously and NOT do try to avenge strangers, which is not my business. Chisato's entire character is that she refuses to kill people and you are complaining, that she is not going on a rampage... I kept her no killing rule in mind and I said, multiple times, that she doesn't even try to arrest or apprehend the people responsible for numerous deaths. I never said she should go on a rampage. I would expect her to be calm, but still show care for the crimes committed. She doesn't. She's not Batman bruh. Get over it. You are keep trying to force your own morals on others, which is kinda iffy. And she does arrest/restrain hostiles if she can. She literally has a wiregun thingy. I never tried to force my morals on anyone. Who the fuck compared her to batman? And Why oh why does she not use her wiregun thingy to chain Yoshi the terrorist funder? You are constantly complaining that Chisato does not act as you would and doesn't bother you avenge some strangers. You expect her to take justice into her own hands like some sort of Batman. And she let Yoshi go literally because he is like a father to her and owns him her life. She doesn't give a slightest flying fuck about this whole DA stuff, which was emphasized A LOT. She doesn't consider herself and enforcer of justice or anything like that. She states that her mission is to be a savior. Have you forgotten about that? She doesn't feel right to take people's lives away from them, but A-OK with terrorists taking people's lives away from them? Nice logical thinking there. "I hate people who waste their lives" says Chisato in the last episode. I would like you to imagine how she feels about people who waste other people's lives. The show doesn't realize that it made her careless, that's why there's a disconnet between what you say she is, and what the show thinks she is. Yea, I bet that a dumb kid totally meant exactly what you have in mind. Totally. |
Hibiki Tachibana from Symphogear is THE worst protagonist in all anime. No hyperbole or exaggeration. |
Sep 22, 2022 4:21 PM
#119
Piromysl said: Secret333 said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: RogerCop said: You're correct, she just a bland character, not a bad one, simply bland. And she isn't frustrated, she clearly isn't a reactionary type, she simply is the living incarnation of Yolo and nothing else. The show is the one badly written, and takina is missed potential. I'm pretty sure I, just like many others correctly analysed what we have seen and it's quite literally in our faces. Secret333 said: So because she's harrassed it's understandable to possibly kill them? My point is that the show doesn't acknowledge how fucked up that is and apparently neither do you. And I emphasize how innocent they are because they fucking are. Honking at someone doesn't make you deserve the fucking death sentence. "And they were not in any danger of losing their lives" You have no reason to belive that. You just have to because it makes the scene less shit. I never tried to force my morals at her. I evaluated her actions based on her own morals. And if a character acts against their morals, it should be acknowledged by the story. That scene was just brushed aside. So it's not a character flaw, it's just a fuck up in the writing. They wanted to show how sad she is and ended up making her almost kill people without realizing it. Just like you have no reason to believe they were in danger? Something tells me, that authors will agree with me and your reaching is kinda irrelevant, because you just desperately want to see this scene more shit than it actually is. It's brushed aside because there is completely nothing more to it. And I am emphasizing how they do not deserve sympathy, because they don't deserve sympathy lol. That's why they were portrayed as jackasses. They did not deserved death and they did not died. You are seriously wondering why people refuse to read this wall of text? I did and lost some braincells in the process. You just do not pay attention what you are watching, think that character being put in moral dilemma makes them a bad character and somehow reach really far due to your bias. WTF?! You don't get it do you? The OP isn't against putting characters in moral dilemmas or against them having flaws. The problem is the fact that these flaws or dilemmas aren't expanded upon...AT ALL. No introspection, no pondering on what happened before, no regret, NOTHING. It's just presented to us as is and we're supposed to just accept it without these things ever being addressed. It's lazy writing. You have no idea what you are talking about. Like half of those paragraphs are literally "flawed character = bad character" and the rest are complete misrepresentation and desperate nitpicking. I mean, you could just read "TLDR" part at the bottom, which is quite hyperbolic, but still. You pointed out one point from the OP's post and have harped on and on about it without addressing anything else. You're just making general claims in an attempt to defend the character. How do you explain Chisato claiming she cares about human life and preserving them, but having no reaction at all to any of her teammates being killed in brutal ways? Or the fact she's been nonchalant about the whole Majima situation at best. Or how about the fact she doesn't even follow her own advice? She criticized Fuki for getting too close to an opponent and told her it's an easy way for her to be disarmed by her opponent, only for her to do that exact same mistake 2 episodes later. These are just a FEW examples of the lazy and incompetent writing we've seen throughout this show. Well, sorry that I just targeted one garbage point out of 10 and focused on it way more then I should, because I did not wanted bothering deconstructing the rest. I guess authors are very sorry, that highway scene was not handled exactly as you wanted and they definitely should expect that some people would have a wrong impression that someone might die there. Anyway, you are keep saying that "flawed character = bad character". That is wrong. Hypocrisy is a flaw. Chisato is a hypocrite at times, because she is a human. She is not even particularly intelligent. An I don't know how advising Fuki for coming too close is a bad thing, becsuse that's logical, while Chisato has no problem dodging point blank shots and Fuki can't. Lol WHAT? I have never once said in this entire thread that a flawed character is a bad character. In fact most S tier characters have flaws that make them more relatable. The issue with Chisato's flaws are that they're not even really treated as flaws in the first place. And advising Fuki isn't a bad thing. The problem is that she criticized her for making a rookie mistake, yet went on to make that exact rookie mistake despite being the best Lycoris in the country. That goes beyond just not being "smart". Her experience and skill should never have her making that error in the first place. Then maybe you should reread your post, because you seem to have problem with Chisato being a little bit selfish. And I'm not sure what are you implying by "treates as flaws", because if it's people not calling her out on it, then... well... XD The thing is, those flaws make her character not as predictable as Mary Sue characters like Kirito or Tatsuya. That's their entire purpose. If you really think, that she will be completely different, unrecognizable person by the end, then you are wrong. And you still don't get it why Cbisato is allowed to get into melle range, but others shouldn't? It might have something to do with her incredible reflexes or something... Her being selfish goes against her ideals of wanting to save lies and how much she values human lives though. No one is saying she should be the arbiter of justice and go on a rampage avenging people who were killed. The point is she doesn't even think about it or seem to care at all. How can we then buy her arguments against Yoshi or her excuse for not killing him? Chisato isn't a Mary Sue, but there are too many instances where her own ideals and beliefs are betrayed by Chisato herself. And her "incredible reflexes" sure did save her against Majima! The rookie mistake that she criticized her ally for DEFINITELY didn't backfire on her or anything! Ye, she doesn't care about them. You seem to get it. But she does care about Yoshi, because he is literally a father figure for her, who saved her life. But she doesn't care about DA stuff. And she does not really care about "preserving life", but about not staining her hands. Big distinction. Maybe I paraphrased it wrong earlier, but whatever. So why should we cheer for Chisato in the first place then? She only cares about not getting her own hands dirty right? Which explains why she's completely indifferent to the amount of people that have been killed in or because of her line of work. Why should we as the audience be on her side then? Now you are somehow try to imply that people died because of her. Wow. Just wow. THEY FUCKING DID THOUGH FFS OP thinks otherwise, apparently. LoL And they totally did, right? I mean, I can't blame him when you strawmanned his argument like that. |
Sep 22, 2022 4:22 PM
#120
SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: RogerCop said: You're correct, she just a bland character, not a bad one, simply bland. And she isn't frustrated, she clearly isn't a reactionary type, she simply is the living incarnation of Yolo and nothing else. The show is the one badly written, and takina is missed potential. I'm pretty sure I, just like many others correctly analysed what we have seen and it's quite literally in our faces. Secret333 said: So because she's harrassed it's understandable to possibly kill them? My point is that the show doesn't acknowledge how fucked up that is and apparently neither do you. And I emphasize how innocent they are because they fucking are. Honking at someone doesn't make you deserve the fucking death sentence. "And they were not in any danger of losing their lives" You have no reason to belive that. You just have to because it makes the scene less shit. I never tried to force my morals at her. I evaluated her actions based on her own morals. And if a character acts against their morals, it should be acknowledged by the story. That scene was just brushed aside. So it's not a character flaw, it's just a fuck up in the writing. They wanted to show how sad she is and ended up making her almost kill people without realizing it. Just like you have no reason to believe they were in danger? Something tells me, that authors will agree with me and your reaching is kinda irrelevant, because you just desperately want to see this scene more shit than it actually is. It's brushed aside because there is completely nothing more to it. And I am emphasizing how they do not deserve sympathy, because they don't deserve sympathy lol. That's why they were portrayed as jackasses. They did not deserved death and they did not died. You are seriously wondering why people refuse to read this wall of text? I did and lost some braincells in the process. You just do not pay attention what you are watching, think that character being put in moral dilemma makes them a bad character and somehow reach really far due to your bias. WTF?! You don't get it do you? The OP isn't against putting characters in moral dilemmas or against them having flaws. The problem is the fact that these flaws or dilemmas aren't expanded upon...AT ALL. No introspection, no pondering on what happened before, no regret, NOTHING. It's just presented to us as is and we're supposed to just accept it without these things ever being addressed. It's lazy writing. You have no idea what you are talking about. Like half of those paragraphs are literally "flawed character = bad character" and the rest are complete misrepresentation and desperate nitpicking. I mean, you could just read "TLDR" part at the bottom, which is quite hyperbolic, but still. You pointed out one point from the OP's post and have harped on and on about it without addressing anything else. You're just making general claims in an attempt to defend the character. How do you explain Chisato claiming she cares about human life and preserving them, but having no reaction at all to any of her teammates being killed in brutal ways? Or the fact she's been nonchalant about the whole Majima situation at best. Or how about the fact she doesn't even follow her own advice? She criticized Fuki for getting too close to an opponent and told her it's an easy way for her to be disarmed by her opponent, only for her to do that exact same mistake 2 episodes later. These are just a FEW examples of the lazy and incompetent writing we've seen throughout this show. Well, sorry that I just targeted one garbage point out of 10 and focused on it way more then I should, because I did not wanted bothering deconstructing the rest. I guess authors are very sorry, that highway scene was not handled exactly as you wanted and they definitely should expect that some people would have a wrong impression that someone might die there. Anyway, you are keep saying that "flawed character = bad character". That is wrong. Hypocrisy is a flaw. Chisato is a hypocrite at times, because she is a human. She is not even particularly intelligent. An I don't know how advising Fuki for coming too close is a bad thing, becsuse that's logical, while Chisato has no problem dodging point blank shots and Fuki can't. Lol WHAT? I have never once said in this entire thread that a flawed character is a bad character. In fact most S tier characters have flaws that make them more relatable. The issue with Chisato's flaws are that they're not even really treated as flaws in the first place. And advising Fuki isn't a bad thing. The problem is that she criticized her for making a rookie mistake, yet went on to make that exact rookie mistake despite being the best Lycoris in the country. That goes beyond just not being "smart". Her experience and skill should never have her making that error in the first place. Then maybe you should reread your post, because you seem to have problem with Chisato being a little bit selfish. And I'm not sure what are you implying by "treates as flaws", because if it's people not calling her out on it, then... well... XD The thing is, those flaws make her character not as predictable as Mary Sue characters like Kirito or Tatsuya. That's their entire purpose. If you really think, that she will be completely different, unrecognizable person by the end, then you are wrong. And you still don't get it why Cbisato is allowed to get into melle range, but others shouldn't? It might have something to do with her incredible reflexes or something... Her being selfish goes against her ideals of wanting to save lies and how much she values human lives though. No one is saying she should be the arbiter of justice and go on a rampage avenging people who were killed. The point is she doesn't even think about it or seem to care at all. How can we then buy her arguments against Yoshi or her excuse for not killing him? Chisato isn't a Mary Sue, but there are too many instances where her own ideals and beliefs are betrayed by Chisato herself. And her "incredible reflexes" sure did save her against Majima! The rookie mistake that she criticized her ally for DEFINITELY didn't backfire on her or anything! Ye, she doesn't care about them. You seem to get it. But she does care about Yoshi, because he is literally a father figure for her, who saved her life. But she doesn't care about DA stuff. And she does not really care about "preserving life", but about not staining her hands. Big distinction. Maybe I paraphrased it wrong earlier, but whatever. So why should we cheer for Chisato in the first place then? She only cares about not getting her own hands dirty right? Which explains why she's completely indifferent to the amount of people that have been killed in or because of her line of work. Why should we as the audience be on her side then? Now you are somehow try to imply that people died because of her. Wow. Just wow. Do you have reading comprehension issues? Because in no way have I even implied that people have died because of her. Read what I said again...slowly. Then maybe you should phrase it correctly, because that's quite literally what you wrote. So you DO have reading comprehension skills. How does saying that her line of work has caused people to die equate to Chisato herself causing people to die? Her line of work is the whole Lycoris organization. It is a fact that the Lycoris organization has taken countless lives. She is literally not part of DA. |
Hibiki Tachibana from Symphogear is THE worst protagonist in all anime. No hyperbole or exaggeration. |
Sep 22, 2022 4:24 PM
#121
Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: RogerCop said: You're correct, she just a bland character, not a bad one, simply bland. And she isn't frustrated, she clearly isn't a reactionary type, she simply is the living incarnation of Yolo and nothing else. The show is the one badly written, and takina is missed potential. I'm pretty sure I, just like many others correctly analysed what we have seen and it's quite literally in our faces. Secret333 said: So because she's harrassed it's understandable to possibly kill them? My point is that the show doesn't acknowledge how fucked up that is and apparently neither do you. And I emphasize how innocent they are because they fucking are. Honking at someone doesn't make you deserve the fucking death sentence. "And they were not in any danger of losing their lives" You have no reason to belive that. You just have to because it makes the scene less shit. I never tried to force my morals at her. I evaluated her actions based on her own morals. And if a character acts against their morals, it should be acknowledged by the story. That scene was just brushed aside. So it's not a character flaw, it's just a fuck up in the writing. They wanted to show how sad she is and ended up making her almost kill people without realizing it. Just like you have no reason to believe they were in danger? Something tells me, that authors will agree with me and your reaching is kinda irrelevant, because you just desperately want to see this scene more shit than it actually is. It's brushed aside because there is completely nothing more to it. And I am emphasizing how they do not deserve sympathy, because they don't deserve sympathy lol. That's why they were portrayed as jackasses. They did not deserved death and they did not died. You are seriously wondering why people refuse to read this wall of text? I did and lost some braincells in the process. You just do not pay attention what you are watching, think that character being put in moral dilemma makes them a bad character and somehow reach really far due to your bias. WTF?! You don't get it do you? The OP isn't against putting characters in moral dilemmas or against them having flaws. The problem is the fact that these flaws or dilemmas aren't expanded upon...AT ALL. No introspection, no pondering on what happened before, no regret, NOTHING. It's just presented to us as is and we're supposed to just accept it without these things ever being addressed. It's lazy writing. You have no idea what you are talking about. Like half of those paragraphs are literally "flawed character = bad character" and the rest are complete misrepresentation and desperate nitpicking. I mean, you could just read "TLDR" part at the bottom, which is quite hyperbolic, but still. You pointed out one point from the OP's post and have harped on and on about it without addressing anything else. You're just making general claims in an attempt to defend the character. How do you explain Chisato claiming she cares about human life and preserving them, but having no reaction at all to any of her teammates being killed in brutal ways? Or the fact she's been nonchalant about the whole Majima situation at best. Or how about the fact she doesn't even follow her own advice? She criticized Fuki for getting too close to an opponent and told her it's an easy way for her to be disarmed by her opponent, only for her to do that exact same mistake 2 episodes later. These are just a FEW examples of the lazy and incompetent writing we've seen throughout this show. Well, sorry that I just targeted one garbage point out of 10 and focused on it way more then I should, because I did not wanted bothering deconstructing the rest. I guess authors are very sorry, that highway scene was not handled exactly as you wanted and they definitely should expect that some people would have a wrong impression that someone might die there. Anyway, you are keep saying that "flawed character = bad character". That is wrong. Hypocrisy is a flaw. Chisato is a hypocrite at times, because she is a human. She is not even particularly intelligent. An I don't know how advising Fuki for coming too close is a bad thing, becsuse that's logical, while Chisato has no problem dodging point blank shots and Fuki can't. Lol WHAT? I have never once said in this entire thread that a flawed character is a bad character. In fact most S tier characters have flaws that make them more relatable. The issue with Chisato's flaws are that they're not even really treated as flaws in the first place. And advising Fuki isn't a bad thing. The problem is that she criticized her for making a rookie mistake, yet went on to make that exact rookie mistake despite being the best Lycoris in the country. That goes beyond just not being "smart". Her experience and skill should never have her making that error in the first place. Then maybe you should reread your post, because you seem to have problem with Chisato being a little bit selfish. And I'm not sure what are you implying by "treates as flaws", because if it's people not calling her out on it, then... well... XD The thing is, those flaws make her character not as predictable as Mary Sue characters like Kirito or Tatsuya. That's their entire purpose. If you really think, that she will be completely different, unrecognizable person by the end, then you are wrong. And you still don't get it why Cbisato is allowed to get into melle range, but others shouldn't? It might have something to do with her incredible reflexes or something... Her being selfish goes against her ideals of wanting to save lies and how much she values human lives though. No one is saying she should be the arbiter of justice and go on a rampage avenging people who were killed. The point is she doesn't even think about it or seem to care at all. How can we then buy her arguments against Yoshi or her excuse for not killing him? Chisato isn't a Mary Sue, but there are too many instances where her own ideals and beliefs are betrayed by Chisato herself. And her "incredible reflexes" sure did save her against Majima! The rookie mistake that she criticized her ally for DEFINITELY didn't backfire on her or anything! Ye, she doesn't care about them. You seem to get it. But she does care about Yoshi, because he is literally a father figure for her, who saved her life. But she doesn't care about DA stuff. And she does not really care about "preserving life", but about not staining her hands. Big distinction. Maybe I paraphrased it wrong earlier, but whatever. So why should we cheer for Chisato in the first place then? She only cares about not getting her own hands dirty right? Which explains why she's completely indifferent to the amount of people that have been killed in or because of her line of work. Why should we as the audience be on her side then? Now you are somehow try to imply that people died because of her. Wow. Just wow. Do you have reading comprehension issues? Because in no way have I even implied that people have died because of her. Read what I said again...slowly. Then maybe you should phrase it correctly, because that's quite literally what you wrote. So you DO have reading comprehension skills. How does saying that her line of work has caused people to die equate to Chisato herself causing people to die? Her line of work is the whole Lycoris organization. It is a fact that the Lycoris organization has taken countless lives. She is literally not part of DA. She is still technically a Lycoris... Are you being fr rn? |
Sep 22, 2022 4:24 PM
#122
Piromysl said: Secret333 said: Piromysl said: Secret333 said: Piromysl said: Secret333 said: Piromysl said: Secret333 said: Piromysl said: Secret333 said: Ionliosite2 said: Don't worry OP, I actually read thought your wall of text. 1- Yeah, if I'm told that 4 people that I don't care anything about and that I also probably don't know died then I might not care as well, call me weird or cold, but it's the truth. 2- I think I no longer remember episode 8. 3- Yes, she killed no one, and no one died, so no betraying of her morals and beliefs. 4- This is just the same as "why does the bad guy sent minions to fight the MC and doesn't he go to kill him before he gets strong?" type of thinking, just convenient writting, so I agree with you that she was weird that scene. 5- Yes, people can be selfish, welcome to reality. She knows that her heart wouldn't have lasted forever either way and it is her desition that she is fine without their help. 7- But Takina isn't dead... 8- Didn't she say that she let Yoshi go because she is grateful to him? And you are also saying your reasoning that she doesn't kill people. As if he could have been tied, probably. 10- How was she supposed to react when he just appeared out of nowhere? At least I don't know if she saw him walking before shooting. The ones I didn't answer I tink because they were extensions of just the previous one and the 6 you yourself said that it was something you found funny. You can find my reasoning faulty since I already started to forget the small details and just remember the important ones. I don't think she is a terrible character, but also definitely not a great one either. 1-If someone told you someone targeted and killed 4 people who are in the same business as you, wear the same uniforms, for the fact that they work in the same field, How would you recive that info? I would take few days off until situation settles down. Also, Chisato is not really in DA. And does not wear the same uniform. I think it was quite heavily emphasized. You sound like you'd take that situation seriously. Now tell me if chisato does that. She's a lycoris like them, the cafe is a subsidiary of the DA and recieves funding from them, and she is wearing the same uniform. Just because the color is different doesn't mean everything else about the design is. Yea, I would totally take situation seriously and NOT do try to avenge strangers, which is not my business. Chisato's entire character is that she refuses to kill people and you are complaining, that she is not going on a rampage... I kept her no killing rule in mind and I said, multiple times, that she doesn't even try to arrest or apprehend the people responsible for numerous deaths. I never said she should go on a rampage. I would expect her to be calm, but still show care for the crimes committed. She doesn't. She's not Batman bruh. Get over it. You are keep trying to force your own morals on others, which is kinda iffy. And she does arrest/restrain hostiles if she can. She literally has a wiregun thingy. I never tried to force my morals on anyone. Who the fuck compared her to batman? And Why oh why does she not use her wiregun thingy to chain Yoshi the terrorist funder? You are constantly complaining that Chisato does not act as you would and doesn't bother you avenge some strangers. You expect her to take justice into her own hands like some sort of Batman. And she let Yoshi go literally because he is like a father to her and owns him her life. She doesn't give a slightest flying fuck about this whole DA stuff, which was emphasized A LOT. She doesn't consider herself and enforcer of justice or anything like that. She states that her mission is to be a savior. Have you forgotten about that? She doesn't feel right to take people's lives away from them, but A-OK with terrorists taking people's lives away from them? Nice logical thinking there. "I hate people who waste their lives" says Chisato in the last episode. I would like you to imagine how she feels about people who waste other people's lives. The show doesn't realize that it made her careless, that's why there's a disconnet between what you say she is, and what the show thinks she is. Yea, I bet she totally meant exactly what you have in mind. Totally. And at this point, your response is just "no, she's not.". Thanks for running out of non-arguments. Took some time but we got there eventually. |
Sep 22, 2022 4:25 PM
#123
SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: RogerCop said: You're correct, she just a bland character, not a bad one, simply bland. And she isn't frustrated, she clearly isn't a reactionary type, she simply is the living incarnation of Yolo and nothing else. The show is the one badly written, and takina is missed potential. I'm pretty sure I, just like many others correctly analysed what we have seen and it's quite literally in our faces. Secret333 said: So because she's harrassed it's understandable to possibly kill them? My point is that the show doesn't acknowledge how fucked up that is and apparently neither do you. And I emphasize how innocent they are because they fucking are. Honking at someone doesn't make you deserve the fucking death sentence. "And they were not in any danger of losing their lives" You have no reason to belive that. You just have to because it makes the scene less shit. I never tried to force my morals at her. I evaluated her actions based on her own morals. And if a character acts against their morals, it should be acknowledged by the story. That scene was just brushed aside. So it's not a character flaw, it's just a fuck up in the writing. They wanted to show how sad she is and ended up making her almost kill people without realizing it. Just like you have no reason to believe they were in danger? Something tells me, that authors will agree with me and your reaching is kinda irrelevant, because you just desperately want to see this scene more shit than it actually is. It's brushed aside because there is completely nothing more to it. And I am emphasizing how they do not deserve sympathy, because they don't deserve sympathy lol. That's why they were portrayed as jackasses. They did not deserved death and they did not died. You are seriously wondering why people refuse to read this wall of text? I did and lost some braincells in the process. You just do not pay attention what you are watching, think that character being put in moral dilemma makes them a bad character and somehow reach really far due to your bias. WTF?! You don't get it do you? The OP isn't against putting characters in moral dilemmas or against them having flaws. The problem is the fact that these flaws or dilemmas aren't expanded upon...AT ALL. No introspection, no pondering on what happened before, no regret, NOTHING. It's just presented to us as is and we're supposed to just accept it without these things ever being addressed. It's lazy writing. You have no idea what you are talking about. Like half of those paragraphs are literally "flawed character = bad character" and the rest are complete misrepresentation and desperate nitpicking. I mean, you could just read "TLDR" part at the bottom, which is quite hyperbolic, but still. You pointed out one point from the OP's post and have harped on and on about it without addressing anything else. You're just making general claims in an attempt to defend the character. How do you explain Chisato claiming she cares about human life and preserving them, but having no reaction at all to any of her teammates being killed in brutal ways? Or the fact she's been nonchalant about the whole Majima situation at best. Or how about the fact she doesn't even follow her own advice? She criticized Fuki for getting too close to an opponent and told her it's an easy way for her to be disarmed by her opponent, only for her to do that exact same mistake 2 episodes later. These are just a FEW examples of the lazy and incompetent writing we've seen throughout this show. Well, sorry that I just targeted one garbage point out of 10 and focused on it way more then I should, because I did not wanted bothering deconstructing the rest. I guess authors are very sorry, that highway scene was not handled exactly as you wanted and they definitely should expect that some people would have a wrong impression that someone might die there. Anyway, you are keep saying that "flawed character = bad character". That is wrong. Hypocrisy is a flaw. Chisato is a hypocrite at times, because she is a human. She is not even particularly intelligent. An I don't know how advising Fuki for coming too close is a bad thing, becsuse that's logical, while Chisato has no problem dodging point blank shots and Fuki can't. Lol WHAT? I have never once said in this entire thread that a flawed character is a bad character. In fact most S tier characters have flaws that make them more relatable. The issue with Chisato's flaws are that they're not even really treated as flaws in the first place. And advising Fuki isn't a bad thing. The problem is that she criticized her for making a rookie mistake, yet went on to make that exact rookie mistake despite being the best Lycoris in the country. That goes beyond just not being "smart". Her experience and skill should never have her making that error in the first place. Then maybe you should reread your post, because you seem to have problem with Chisato being a little bit selfish. And I'm not sure what are you implying by "treates as flaws", because if it's people not calling her out on it, then... well... XD The thing is, those flaws make her character not as predictable as Mary Sue characters like Kirito or Tatsuya. That's their entire purpose. If you really think, that she will be completely different, unrecognizable person by the end, then you are wrong. And you still don't get it why Cbisato is allowed to get into melle range, but others shouldn't? It might have something to do with her incredible reflexes or something... Her being selfish goes against her ideals of wanting to save lies and how much she values human lives though. No one is saying she should be the arbiter of justice and go on a rampage avenging people who were killed. The point is she doesn't even think about it or seem to care at all. How can we then buy her arguments against Yoshi or her excuse for not killing him? Chisato isn't a Mary Sue, but there are too many instances where her own ideals and beliefs are betrayed by Chisato herself. And her "incredible reflexes" sure did save her against Majima! The rookie mistake that she criticized her ally for DEFINITELY didn't backfire on her or anything! Ye, she doesn't care about them. You seem to get it. But she does care about Yoshi, because he is literally a father figure for her, who saved her life. But she doesn't care about DA stuff. And she does not really care about "preserving life", but about not staining her hands. Big distinction. Maybe I paraphrased it wrong earlier, but whatever. So why should we cheer for Chisato in the first place then? She only cares about not getting her own hands dirty right? Which explains why she's completely indifferent to the amount of people that have been killed in or because of her line of work. Why should we as the audience be on her side then? Now you are somehow try to imply that people died because of her. Wow. Just wow. Do you have reading comprehension issues? Because in no way have I even implied that people have died because of her. Read what I said again...slowly. Then maybe you should phrase it correctly, because that's quite literally what you wrote. So you DO have reading comprehension skills. How does saying that her line of work has caused people to die equate to Chisato herself causing people to die? Her line of work is the whole Lycoris organization. It is a fact that the Lycoris organization has taken countless lives. She is literally not part of DA. She is still technically a Lycoris... Are you being fr rn? You know the difference between DA and LycoCafe? You know why Takina was sent there? |
Hibiki Tachibana from Symphogear is THE worst protagonist in all anime. No hyperbole or exaggeration. |
Sep 22, 2022 4:25 PM
#124
Secret333 said: Piromysl said: Secret333 said: Piromysl said: Secret333 said: Piromysl said: Secret333 said: Piromysl said: Secret333 said: Piromysl said: Secret333 said: Ionliosite2 said: Don't worry OP, I actually read thought your wall of text. 1- Yeah, if I'm told that 4 people that I don't care anything about and that I also probably don't know died then I might not care as well, call me weird or cold, but it's the truth. 2- I think I no longer remember episode 8. 3- Yes, she killed no one, and no one died, so no betraying of her morals and beliefs. 4- This is just the same as "why does the bad guy sent minions to fight the MC and doesn't he go to kill him before he gets strong?" type of thinking, just convenient writting, so I agree with you that she was weird that scene. 5- Yes, people can be selfish, welcome to reality. She knows that her heart wouldn't have lasted forever either way and it is her desition that she is fine without their help. 7- But Takina isn't dead... 8- Didn't she say that she let Yoshi go because she is grateful to him? And you are also saying your reasoning that she doesn't kill people. As if he could have been tied, probably. 10- How was she supposed to react when he just appeared out of nowhere? At least I don't know if she saw him walking before shooting. The ones I didn't answer I tink because they were extensions of just the previous one and the 6 you yourself said that it was something you found funny. You can find my reasoning faulty since I already started to forget the small details and just remember the important ones. I don't think she is a terrible character, but also definitely not a great one either. 1-If someone told you someone targeted and killed 4 people who are in the same business as you, wear the same uniforms, for the fact that they work in the same field, How would you recive that info? I would take few days off until situation settles down. Also, Chisato is not really in DA. And does not wear the same uniform. I think it was quite heavily emphasized. You sound like you'd take that situation seriously. Now tell me if chisato does that. She's a lycoris like them, the cafe is a subsidiary of the DA and recieves funding from them, and she is wearing the same uniform. Just because the color is different doesn't mean everything else about the design is. Yea, I would totally take situation seriously and NOT do try to avenge strangers, which is not my business. Chisato's entire character is that she refuses to kill people and you are complaining, that she is not going on a rampage... I kept her no killing rule in mind and I said, multiple times, that she doesn't even try to arrest or apprehend the people responsible for numerous deaths. I never said she should go on a rampage. I would expect her to be calm, but still show care for the crimes committed. She doesn't. She's not Batman bruh. Get over it. You are keep trying to force your own morals on others, which is kinda iffy. And she does arrest/restrain hostiles if she can. She literally has a wiregun thingy. I never tried to force my morals on anyone. Who the fuck compared her to batman? And Why oh why does she not use her wiregun thingy to chain Yoshi the terrorist funder? You are constantly complaining that Chisato does not act as you would and doesn't bother you avenge some strangers. You expect her to take justice into her own hands like some sort of Batman. And she let Yoshi go literally because he is like a father to her and owns him her life. She doesn't give a slightest flying fuck about this whole DA stuff, which was emphasized A LOT. She doesn't consider herself and enforcer of justice or anything like that. She states that her mission is to be a savior. Have you forgotten about that? She doesn't feel right to take people's lives away from them, but A-OK with terrorists taking people's lives away from them? Nice logical thinking there. "I hate people who waste their lives" says Chisato in the last episode. I would like you to imagine how she feels about people who waste other people's lives. The show doesn't realize that it made her careless, that's why there's a disconnet between what you say she is, and what the show thinks she is. Yea, I bet she totally meant exactly what you have in mind. Totally. And at this point, your response is just "no, she's not.". Thanks for running out of non-arguments. Took some time but we got there eventually. Well, literally everything you have are just projections, so you're not better. |
Hibiki Tachibana from Symphogear is THE worst protagonist in all anime. No hyperbole or exaggeration. |
Sep 22, 2022 4:29 PM
#125
Piromysl said: Secret333 said: Piromysl said: Secret333 said: Piromysl said: Secret333 said: Piromysl said: Secret333 said: Piromysl said: Secret333 said: Piromysl said: Secret333 said: Ionliosite2 said: Don't worry OP, I actually read thought your wall of text. 1- Yeah, if I'm told that 4 people that I don't care anything about and that I also probably don't know died then I might not care as well, call me weird or cold, but it's the truth. 2- I think I no longer remember episode 8. 3- Yes, she killed no one, and no one died, so no betraying of her morals and beliefs. 4- This is just the same as "why does the bad guy sent minions to fight the MC and doesn't he go to kill him before he gets strong?" type of thinking, just convenient writting, so I agree with you that she was weird that scene. 5- Yes, people can be selfish, welcome to reality. She knows that her heart wouldn't have lasted forever either way and it is her desition that she is fine without their help. 7- But Takina isn't dead... 8- Didn't she say that she let Yoshi go because she is grateful to him? And you are also saying your reasoning that she doesn't kill people. As if he could have been tied, probably. 10- How was she supposed to react when he just appeared out of nowhere? At least I don't know if she saw him walking before shooting. The ones I didn't answer I tink because they were extensions of just the previous one and the 6 you yourself said that it was something you found funny. You can find my reasoning faulty since I already started to forget the small details and just remember the important ones. I don't think she is a terrible character, but also definitely not a great one either. 1-If someone told you someone targeted and killed 4 people who are in the same business as you, wear the same uniforms, for the fact that they work in the same field, How would you recive that info? I would take few days off until situation settles down. Also, Chisato is not really in DA. And does not wear the same uniform. I think it was quite heavily emphasized. You sound like you'd take that situation seriously. Now tell me if chisato does that. She's a lycoris like them, the cafe is a subsidiary of the DA and recieves funding from them, and she is wearing the same uniform. Just because the color is different doesn't mean everything else about the design is. Yea, I would totally take situation seriously and NOT do try to avenge strangers, which is not my business. Chisato's entire character is that she refuses to kill people and you are complaining, that she is not going on a rampage... I kept her no killing rule in mind and I said, multiple times, that she doesn't even try to arrest or apprehend the people responsible for numerous deaths. I never said she should go on a rampage. I would expect her to be calm, but still show care for the crimes committed. She doesn't. She's not Batman bruh. Get over it. You are keep trying to force your own morals on others, which is kinda iffy. And she does arrest/restrain hostiles if she can. She literally has a wiregun thingy. I never tried to force my morals on anyone. Who the fuck compared her to batman? And Why oh why does she not use her wiregun thingy to chain Yoshi the terrorist funder? You are constantly complaining that Chisato does not act as you would and doesn't bother you avenge some strangers. You expect her to take justice into her own hands like some sort of Batman. And she let Yoshi go literally because he is like a father to her and owns him her life. She doesn't give a slightest flying fuck about this whole DA stuff, which was emphasized A LOT. She doesn't consider herself and enforcer of justice or anything like that. She states that her mission is to be a savior. Have you forgotten about that? She doesn't feel right to take people's lives away from them, but A-OK with terrorists taking people's lives away from them? Nice logical thinking there. "I hate people who waste their lives" says Chisato in the last episode. I would like you to imagine how she feels about people who waste other people's lives. The show doesn't realize that it made her careless, that's why there's a disconnet between what you say she is, and what the show thinks she is. Yea, I bet she totally meant exactly what you have in mind. Totally. And at this point, your response is just "no, she's not.". Thanks for running out of non-arguments. Took some time but we got there eventually. Well, literally everything you have are just projections, so you're not better. I brought three things she said to qualify my statements. Your response was just "she doesn't actually mean what you think she means" without any qualifications. Your arguments and mine are not the same. Goodnight mate. Try better next time. |
Sep 22, 2022 4:30 PM
#126
Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: RogerCop said: You're correct, she just a bland character, not a bad one, simply bland. And she isn't frustrated, she clearly isn't a reactionary type, she simply is the living incarnation of Yolo and nothing else. The show is the one badly written, and takina is missed potential. I'm pretty sure I, just like many others correctly analysed what we have seen and it's quite literally in our faces. Secret333 said: So because she's harrassed it's understandable to possibly kill them? My point is that the show doesn't acknowledge how fucked up that is and apparently neither do you. And I emphasize how innocent they are because they fucking are. Honking at someone doesn't make you deserve the fucking death sentence. "And they were not in any danger of losing their lives" You have no reason to belive that. You just have to because it makes the scene less shit. I never tried to force my morals at her. I evaluated her actions based on her own morals. And if a character acts against their morals, it should be acknowledged by the story. That scene was just brushed aside. So it's not a character flaw, it's just a fuck up in the writing. They wanted to show how sad she is and ended up making her almost kill people without realizing it. Just like you have no reason to believe they were in danger? Something tells me, that authors will agree with me and your reaching is kinda irrelevant, because you just desperately want to see this scene more shit than it actually is. It's brushed aside because there is completely nothing more to it. And I am emphasizing how they do not deserve sympathy, because they don't deserve sympathy lol. That's why they were portrayed as jackasses. They did not deserved death and they did not died. You are seriously wondering why people refuse to read this wall of text? I did and lost some braincells in the process. You just do not pay attention what you are watching, think that character being put in moral dilemma makes them a bad character and somehow reach really far due to your bias. WTF?! You don't get it do you? The OP isn't against putting characters in moral dilemmas or against them having flaws. The problem is the fact that these flaws or dilemmas aren't expanded upon...AT ALL. No introspection, no pondering on what happened before, no regret, NOTHING. It's just presented to us as is and we're supposed to just accept it without these things ever being addressed. It's lazy writing. You have no idea what you are talking about. Like half of those paragraphs are literally "flawed character = bad character" and the rest are complete misrepresentation and desperate nitpicking. I mean, you could just read "TLDR" part at the bottom, which is quite hyperbolic, but still. You pointed out one point from the OP's post and have harped on and on about it without addressing anything else. You're just making general claims in an attempt to defend the character. How do you explain Chisato claiming she cares about human life and preserving them, but having no reaction at all to any of her teammates being killed in brutal ways? Or the fact she's been nonchalant about the whole Majima situation at best. Or how about the fact she doesn't even follow her own advice? She criticized Fuki for getting too close to an opponent and told her it's an easy way for her to be disarmed by her opponent, only for her to do that exact same mistake 2 episodes later. These are just a FEW examples of the lazy and incompetent writing we've seen throughout this show. Well, sorry that I just targeted one garbage point out of 10 and focused on it way more then I should, because I did not wanted bothering deconstructing the rest. I guess authors are very sorry, that highway scene was not handled exactly as you wanted and they definitely should expect that some people would have a wrong impression that someone might die there. Anyway, you are keep saying that "flawed character = bad character". That is wrong. Hypocrisy is a flaw. Chisato is a hypocrite at times, because she is a human. She is not even particularly intelligent. An I don't know how advising Fuki for coming too close is a bad thing, becsuse that's logical, while Chisato has no problem dodging point blank shots and Fuki can't. Lol WHAT? I have never once said in this entire thread that a flawed character is a bad character. In fact most S tier characters have flaws that make them more relatable. The issue with Chisato's flaws are that they're not even really treated as flaws in the first place. And advising Fuki isn't a bad thing. The problem is that she criticized her for making a rookie mistake, yet went on to make that exact rookie mistake despite being the best Lycoris in the country. That goes beyond just not being "smart". Her experience and skill should never have her making that error in the first place. Then maybe you should reread your post, because you seem to have problem with Chisato being a little bit selfish. And I'm not sure what are you implying by "treates as flaws", because if it's people not calling her out on it, then... well... XD The thing is, those flaws make her character not as predictable as Mary Sue characters like Kirito or Tatsuya. That's their entire purpose. If you really think, that she will be completely different, unrecognizable person by the end, then you are wrong. And you still don't get it why Cbisato is allowed to get into melle range, but others shouldn't? It might have something to do with her incredible reflexes or something... Her being selfish goes against her ideals of wanting to save lies and how much she values human lives though. No one is saying she should be the arbiter of justice and go on a rampage avenging people who were killed. The point is she doesn't even think about it or seem to care at all. How can we then buy her arguments against Yoshi or her excuse for not killing him? Chisato isn't a Mary Sue, but there are too many instances where her own ideals and beliefs are betrayed by Chisato herself. And her "incredible reflexes" sure did save her against Majima! The rookie mistake that she criticized her ally for DEFINITELY didn't backfire on her or anything! Ye, she doesn't care about them. You seem to get it. But she does care about Yoshi, because he is literally a father figure for her, who saved her life. But she doesn't care about DA stuff. And she does not really care about "preserving life", but about not staining her hands. Big distinction. Maybe I paraphrased it wrong earlier, but whatever. So why should we cheer for Chisato in the first place then? She only cares about not getting her own hands dirty right? Which explains why she's completely indifferent to the amount of people that have been killed in or because of her line of work. Why should we as the audience be on her side then? Now you are somehow try to imply that people died because of her. Wow. Just wow. Do you have reading comprehension issues? Because in no way have I even implied that people have died because of her. Read what I said again...slowly. Then maybe you should phrase it correctly, because that's quite literally what you wrote. So you DO have reading comprehension skills. How does saying that her line of work has caused people to die equate to Chisato herself causing people to die? Her line of work is the whole Lycoris organization. It is a fact that the Lycoris organization has taken countless lives. She is literally not part of DA. She is still technically a Lycoris... Are you being fr rn? You know the difference between DA and LycoCafe? You know why Takina was sent there? Their line of work is literally still the same. My point about her line of work causing multiple deaths is literally still valid. What's your point here? |
Sep 22, 2022 4:30 PM
#127
Secret333 said: Piromysl said: Secret333 said: Piromysl said: Secret333 said: Piromysl said: Secret333 said: Piromysl said: Secret333 said: Piromysl said: Secret333 said: Piromysl said: Secret333 said: Ionliosite2 said: Don't worry OP, I actually read thought your wall of text. 1- Yeah, if I'm told that 4 people that I don't care anything about and that I also probably don't know died then I might not care as well, call me weird or cold, but it's the truth. 2- I think I no longer remember episode 8. 3- Yes, she killed no one, and no one died, so no betraying of her morals and beliefs. 4- This is just the same as "why does the bad guy sent minions to fight the MC and doesn't he go to kill him before he gets strong?" type of thinking, just convenient writting, so I agree with you that she was weird that scene. 5- Yes, people can be selfish, welcome to reality. She knows that her heart wouldn't have lasted forever either way and it is her desition that she is fine without their help. 7- But Takina isn't dead... 8- Didn't she say that she let Yoshi go because she is grateful to him? And you are also saying your reasoning that she doesn't kill people. As if he could have been tied, probably. 10- How was she supposed to react when he just appeared out of nowhere? At least I don't know if she saw him walking before shooting. The ones I didn't answer I tink because they were extensions of just the previous one and the 6 you yourself said that it was something you found funny. You can find my reasoning faulty since I already started to forget the small details and just remember the important ones. I don't think she is a terrible character, but also definitely not a great one either. 1-If someone told you someone targeted and killed 4 people who are in the same business as you, wear the same uniforms, for the fact that they work in the same field, How would you recive that info? I would take few days off until situation settles down. Also, Chisato is not really in DA. And does not wear the same uniform. I think it was quite heavily emphasized. You sound like you'd take that situation seriously. Now tell me if chisato does that. She's a lycoris like them, the cafe is a subsidiary of the DA and recieves funding from them, and she is wearing the same uniform. Just because the color is different doesn't mean everything else about the design is. Yea, I would totally take situation seriously and NOT do try to avenge strangers, which is not my business. Chisato's entire character is that she refuses to kill people and you are complaining, that she is not going on a rampage... I kept her no killing rule in mind and I said, multiple times, that she doesn't even try to arrest or apprehend the people responsible for numerous deaths. I never said she should go on a rampage. I would expect her to be calm, but still show care for the crimes committed. She doesn't. She's not Batman bruh. Get over it. You are keep trying to force your own morals on others, which is kinda iffy. And she does arrest/restrain hostiles if she can. She literally has a wiregun thingy. I never tried to force my morals on anyone. Who the fuck compared her to batman? And Why oh why does she not use her wiregun thingy to chain Yoshi the terrorist funder? You are constantly complaining that Chisato does not act as you would and doesn't bother you avenge some strangers. You expect her to take justice into her own hands like some sort of Batman. And she let Yoshi go literally because he is like a father to her and owns him her life. She doesn't give a slightest flying fuck about this whole DA stuff, which was emphasized A LOT. She doesn't consider herself and enforcer of justice or anything like that. She states that her mission is to be a savior. Have you forgotten about that? She doesn't feel right to take people's lives away from them, but A-OK with terrorists taking people's lives away from them? Nice logical thinking there. "I hate people who waste their lives" says Chisato in the last episode. I would like you to imagine how she feels about people who waste other people's lives. The show doesn't realize that it made her careless, that's why there's a disconnet between what you say she is, and what the show thinks she is. Yea, I bet she totally meant exactly what you have in mind. Totally. And at this point, your response is just "no, she's not.". Thanks for running out of non-arguments. Took some time but we got there eventually. Well, literally everything you have are just projections, so you're not better. I brought three things she said to qualify my statements. Your response was just "she doesn't actually mean what you think she means" without any qualifications. Your arguments and mine are not the same. Goodnight mate. Try better next time. Your argument was literally "she said she wants to be saviour" and you applied your own carefully picked context. Dismissed. |
Hibiki Tachibana from Symphogear is THE worst protagonist in all anime. No hyperbole or exaggeration. |
Sep 22, 2022 4:31 PM
#128
| Imagine writing so much about a fictional character, I'd say it's cringe but it's more impressive that you care so much about disliking her that you wrote a thesis length comment as to why. Actually that is kinda cringe...anyway I disagree because I like her and my reasoning is that she's cool. |
Sep 22, 2022 4:32 PM
#129
SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: RogerCop said: You're correct, she just a bland character, not a bad one, simply bland. And she isn't frustrated, she clearly isn't a reactionary type, she simply is the living incarnation of Yolo and nothing else. The show is the one badly written, and takina is missed potential. I'm pretty sure I, just like many others correctly analysed what we have seen and it's quite literally in our faces. Secret333 said: So because she's harrassed it's understandable to possibly kill them? My point is that the show doesn't acknowledge how fucked up that is and apparently neither do you. And I emphasize how innocent they are because they fucking are. Honking at someone doesn't make you deserve the fucking death sentence. "And they were not in any danger of losing their lives" You have no reason to belive that. You just have to because it makes the scene less shit. I never tried to force my morals at her. I evaluated her actions based on her own morals. And if a character acts against their morals, it should be acknowledged by the story. That scene was just brushed aside. So it's not a character flaw, it's just a fuck up in the writing. They wanted to show how sad she is and ended up making her almost kill people without realizing it. Just like you have no reason to believe they were in danger? Something tells me, that authors will agree with me and your reaching is kinda irrelevant, because you just desperately want to see this scene more shit than it actually is. It's brushed aside because there is completely nothing more to it. And I am emphasizing how they do not deserve sympathy, because they don't deserve sympathy lol. That's why they were portrayed as jackasses. They did not deserved death and they did not died. You are seriously wondering why people refuse to read this wall of text? I did and lost some braincells in the process. You just do not pay attention what you are watching, think that character being put in moral dilemma makes them a bad character and somehow reach really far due to your bias. WTF?! You don't get it do you? The OP isn't against putting characters in moral dilemmas or against them having flaws. The problem is the fact that these flaws or dilemmas aren't expanded upon...AT ALL. No introspection, no pondering on what happened before, no regret, NOTHING. It's just presented to us as is and we're supposed to just accept it without these things ever being addressed. It's lazy writing. You have no idea what you are talking about. Like half of those paragraphs are literally "flawed character = bad character" and the rest are complete misrepresentation and desperate nitpicking. I mean, you could just read "TLDR" part at the bottom, which is quite hyperbolic, but still. You pointed out one point from the OP's post and have harped on and on about it without addressing anything else. You're just making general claims in an attempt to defend the character. How do you explain Chisato claiming she cares about human life and preserving them, but having no reaction at all to any of her teammates being killed in brutal ways? Or the fact she's been nonchalant about the whole Majima situation at best. Or how about the fact she doesn't even follow her own advice? She criticized Fuki for getting too close to an opponent and told her it's an easy way for her to be disarmed by her opponent, only for her to do that exact same mistake 2 episodes later. These are just a FEW examples of the lazy and incompetent writing we've seen throughout this show. Well, sorry that I just targeted one garbage point out of 10 and focused on it way more then I should, because I did not wanted bothering deconstructing the rest. I guess authors are very sorry, that highway scene was not handled exactly as you wanted and they definitely should expect that some people would have a wrong impression that someone might die there. Anyway, you are keep saying that "flawed character = bad character". That is wrong. Hypocrisy is a flaw. Chisato is a hypocrite at times, because she is a human. She is not even particularly intelligent. An I don't know how advising Fuki for coming too close is a bad thing, becsuse that's logical, while Chisato has no problem dodging point blank shots and Fuki can't. Lol WHAT? I have never once said in this entire thread that a flawed character is a bad character. In fact most S tier characters have flaws that make them more relatable. The issue with Chisato's flaws are that they're not even really treated as flaws in the first place. And advising Fuki isn't a bad thing. The problem is that she criticized her for making a rookie mistake, yet went on to make that exact rookie mistake despite being the best Lycoris in the country. That goes beyond just not being "smart". Her experience and skill should never have her making that error in the first place. Then maybe you should reread your post, because you seem to have problem with Chisato being a little bit selfish. And I'm not sure what are you implying by "treates as flaws", because if it's people not calling her out on it, then... well... XD The thing is, those flaws make her character not as predictable as Mary Sue characters like Kirito or Tatsuya. That's their entire purpose. If you really think, that she will be completely different, unrecognizable person by the end, then you are wrong. And you still don't get it why Cbisato is allowed to get into melle range, but others shouldn't? It might have something to do with her incredible reflexes or something... Her being selfish goes against her ideals of wanting to save lies and how much she values human lives though. No one is saying she should be the arbiter of justice and go on a rampage avenging people who were killed. The point is she doesn't even think about it or seem to care at all. How can we then buy her arguments against Yoshi or her excuse for not killing him? Chisato isn't a Mary Sue, but there are too many instances where her own ideals and beliefs are betrayed by Chisato herself. And her "incredible reflexes" sure did save her against Majima! The rookie mistake that she criticized her ally for DEFINITELY didn't backfire on her or anything! Ye, she doesn't care about them. You seem to get it. But she does care about Yoshi, because he is literally a father figure for her, who saved her life. But she doesn't care about DA stuff. And she does not really care about "preserving life", but about not staining her hands. Big distinction. Maybe I paraphrased it wrong earlier, but whatever. So why should we cheer for Chisato in the first place then? She only cares about not getting her own hands dirty right? Which explains why she's completely indifferent to the amount of people that have been killed in or because of her line of work. Why should we as the audience be on her side then? Now you are somehow try to imply that people died because of her. Wow. Just wow. Do you have reading comprehension issues? Because in no way have I even implied that people have died because of her. Read what I said again...slowly. Then maybe you should phrase it correctly, because that's quite literally what you wrote. So you DO have reading comprehension skills. How does saying that her line of work has caused people to die equate to Chisato herself causing people to die? Her line of work is the whole Lycoris organization. It is a fact that the Lycoris organization has taken countless lives. She is literally not part of DA. She is still technically a Lycoris... Are you being fr rn? You know the difference between DA and LycoCafe? You know why Takina was sent there? Their line of work is literally still the same. My point about her line of work causing multiple deaths is literally still valid. What's your point here? DIRECT ACTION As name suggest, they take direct action. LycoCafe They literally just do trivial odd jobs. Two different worlds. |
Hibiki Tachibana from Symphogear is THE worst protagonist in all anime. No hyperbole or exaggeration. |
Sep 22, 2022 4:39 PM
#130
Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: SkyhighCFC said: Piromysl said: RogerCop said: You're correct, she just a bland character, not a bad one, simply bland. And she isn't frustrated, she clearly isn't a reactionary type, she simply is the living incarnation of Yolo and nothing else. The show is the one badly written, and takina is missed potential. I'm pretty sure I, just like many others correctly analysed what we have seen and it's quite literally in our faces. Secret333 said: So because she's harrassed it's understandable to possibly kill them? My point is that the show doesn't acknowledge how fucked up that is and apparently neither do you. And I emphasize how innocent they are because they fucking are. Honking at someone doesn't make you deserve the fucking death sentence. "And they were not in any danger of losing their lives" You have no reason to belive that. You just have to because it makes the scene less shit. I never tried to force my morals at her. I evaluated her actions based on her own morals. And if a character acts against their morals, it should be acknowledged by the story. That scene was just brushed aside. So it's not a character flaw, it's just a fuck up in the writing. They wanted to show how sad she is and ended up making her almost kill people without realizing it. Just like you have no reason to believe they were in danger? Something tells me, that authors will agree with me and your reaching is kinda irrelevant, because you just desperately want to see this scene more shit than it actually is. It's brushed aside because there is completely nothing more to it. And I am emphasizing how they do not deserve sympathy, because they don't deserve sympathy lol. That's why they were portrayed as jackasses. They did not deserved death and they did not died. You are seriously wondering why people refuse to read this wall of text? I did and lost some braincells in the process. You just do not pay attention what you are watching, think that character being put in moral dilemma makes them a bad character and somehow reach really far due to your bias. WTF?! You don't get it do you? The OP isn't against putting characters in moral dilemmas or against them having flaws. The problem is the fact that these flaws or dilemmas aren't expanded upon...AT ALL. No introspection, no pondering on what happened before, no regret, NOTHING. It's just presented to us as is and we're supposed to just accept it without these things ever being addressed. It's lazy writing. You have no idea what you are talking about. Like half of those paragraphs are literally "flawed character = bad character" and the rest are complete misrepresentation and desperate nitpicking. I mean, you could just read "TLDR" part at the bottom, which is quite hyperbolic, but still. You pointed out one point from the OP's post and have harped on and on about it without addressing anything else. You're just making general claims in an attempt to defend the character. How do you explain Chisato claiming she cares about human life and preserving them, but having no reaction at all to any of her teammates being killed in brutal ways? Or the fact she's been nonchalant about the whole Majima situation at best. Or how about the fact she doesn't even follow her own advice? She criticized Fuki for getting too close to an opponent and told her it's an easy way for her to be disarmed by her opponent, only for her to do that exact same mistake 2 episodes later. These are just a FEW examples of the lazy and incompetent writing we've seen throughout this show. Well, sorry that I just targeted one garbage point out of 10 and focused on it way more then I should, because I did not wanted bothering deconstructing the rest. I guess authors are very sorry, that highway scene was not handled exactly as you wanted and they definitely should expect that some people would have a wrong impression that someone might die there. Anyway, you are keep saying that "flawed character = bad character". That is wrong. Hypocrisy is a flaw. Chisato is a hypocrite at times, because she is a human. She is not even particularly intelligent. An I don't know how advising Fuki for coming too close is a bad thing, becsuse that's logical, while Chisato has no problem dodging point blank shots and Fuki can't. Lol WHAT? I have never once said in this entire thread that a flawed character is a bad character. In fact most S tier characters have flaws that make them more relatable. The issue with Chisato's flaws are that they're not even really treated as flaws in the first place. And advising Fuki isn't a bad thing. The problem is that she criticized her for making a rookie mistake, yet went on to make that exact rookie mistake despite being the best Lycoris in the country. That goes beyond just not being "smart". Her experience and skill should never have her making that error in the first place. Then maybe you should reread your post, because you seem to have problem with Chisato being a little bit selfish. And I'm not sure what are you implying by "treates as flaws", because if it's people not calling her out on it, then... well... XD The thing is, those flaws make her character not as predictable as Mary Sue characters like Kirito or Tatsuya. That's their entire purpose. If you really think, that she will be completely different, unrecognizable person by the end, then you are wrong. And you still don't get it why Cbisato is allowed to get into melle range, but others shouldn't? It might have something to do with her incredible reflexes or something... Her being selfish goes against her ideals of wanting to save lies and how much she values human lives though. No one is saying she should be the arbiter of justice and go on a rampage avenging people who were killed. The point is she doesn't even think about it or seem to care at all. How can we then buy her arguments against Yoshi or her excuse for not killing him? Chisato isn't a Mary Sue, but there are too many instances where her own ideals and beliefs are betrayed by Chisato herself. And her "incredible reflexes" sure did save her against Majima! The rookie mistake that she criticized her ally for DEFINITELY didn't backfire on her or anything! Ye, she doesn't care about them. You seem to get it. But she does care about Yoshi, because he is literally a father figure for her, who saved her life. But she doesn't care about DA stuff. And she does not really care about "preserving life", but about not staining her hands. Big distinction. Maybe I paraphrased it wrong earlier, but whatever. So why should we cheer for Chisato in the first place then? She only cares about not getting her own hands dirty right? Which explains why she's completely indifferent to the amount of people that have been killed in or because of her line of work. Why should we as the audience be on her side then? Now you are somehow try to imply that people died because of her. Wow. Just wow. Do you have reading comprehension issues? Because in no way have I even implied that people have died because of her. Read what I said again...slowly. Then maybe you should phrase it correctly, because that's quite literally what you wrote. So you DO have reading comprehension skills. How does saying that her line of work has caused people to die equate to Chisato herself causing people to die? Her line of work is the whole Lycoris organization. It is a fact that the Lycoris organization has taken countless lives. She is literally not part of DA. She is still technically a Lycoris... Are you being fr rn? You know the difference between DA and LycoCafe? You know why Takina was sent there? Their line of work is literally still the same. My point about her line of work causing multiple deaths is literally still valid. What's your point here? DIRECT ACTION As name suggest, they take direct action. LycoCafe They literally just do trivial odd jobs. Two different worlds. Yea...We're done here. Address the actual point? No amigo! Nitpick on the technicalities of their line of work? Yes papi! |
Sep 22, 2022 5:07 PM
#131
| TLDR of OP's first post : "I don't like Chisato" You're welcome~ |
 (っ◔◡◔)っ 𝓘 𝔀𝓲𝓼𝓱 𝔂𝓸𝓾 𝓪𝓵𝓵 𝓱𝓪𝓿𝓮 𝓪 𝔀𝓸𝓷𝓭𝓮𝓻𝓯𝓾𝓵 𝓭𝓪𝔂 ♥ |
Sep 22, 2022 6:12 PM
#132
| Yeah i agree Cool animation and some Characters like kurumi are cool, but terrible writing |
Sep 22, 2022 6:14 PM
#133
Secret333 said: animedude1287 said: While some of your points are fine, a lot of these feel like nitpicks, or your just looking too deep into specific parts. I'm not going through this whole list, but I'll leave my points and go from there. 1: Why would Chisato even care about the other members? I get what your trying to say, but these girls are in a field of work where they could easily be killed. Chisato doesn't seem to be a person who would worry about those kinds of things. 2: The two are in a deadlock. Majima can't hit Chisato, and Chisato can't fight back without her gun. Yes, Chisato could have tried to take the gun, but she could have easily failed and gotten herself shot. 3: That part was most likely for comedy, as they most likely the guys in the car didn't die. There were no other cars, and even if they crashed, they could have still survived. 5: While you could view that as selfishness, Chisato wants to let her friends enjoy their lives and enjoy it then wasting time trying to find a cure when there might not be one. It's selfishness, but that's what Chisato wants. 7: Wow, I didn't know Takina turned into a zombie at that part. This girl has taken on full-grown men. Pretty sure she could hold her own. 8: You do realize even if Chisato ties him and the other women up, they can still break out of it and escape? The woman had a dozen knives on her, or they could have used the broken glasses or something to break out. Pretty sure they have other problems to deal with, like, you know, stopping a whole city from going crazy and people finding guns and shooting at every school girl in the city. 9: You just want to make sure you have an even 10. You're ignoring the show's whole season if you don't think other dark things have happened. 10: She most likely knew he was there. Still, only the next episode will tell us how things play out. I could go either way on this character. Yeah, her abilities and persaonliety are a bit odd, but I still like her. You went through all my points, and didn't just disregard/ignore what I wrote and resort to insults. So I really appreciate that. Now, about the points you made: 1. My point is that it's incongruent with her values. She supposedly values lives so much she refuses to take them out herself. And yet her reaction to the news that several lycorises were targeted and killed is pure apathy. So do we want to agree that she just doesn't care? And what does that say about her? 2. She doesn't even try. Even when Takina arrives she doesn't try to attack him while he walks to the door. If she tried and failed that'd be one thing, but she didn't. And this is after he killed a lot of people last episode so you'd think she'd be a liiiiiittle bit pissed off, but she isn't. Again showing her lack of care for the lives that were lost. 3. As I said, I don't think the writers realize that she put innocent lives in danger. I don't care what the intent of the scene is if what happens in it is horrible. It's again an example of how she didn't think about the lives she just put in danger, and this one is special since she pointed the guns herself. 5. While the character critisim for this point is mainly towards Kurumi and Mizuki, because they don't voice their opinion against Chisato's, it hurts Chisato's character indirectly. They just accept her wishes and go away. We know Kurumi didn't honor Chisato's wishes and she kept looking, but she just didn't voice any of that to Chisato. Robbing her of the chance to learn to rely on others. To learn that if she impacts people's lives, they'd naturaly come to care about her and use their time and effort to save her. 7. Did you hear how she yelled "Takina!"? She definetly sounded not so sure about her safety. And I don't think part of lycorises training is to DEFY GRAVITY. 8. And again, she didn't even try. She doesn't even have to tie anything herself she has a very convenient gun that does that for her. If that gun is so unreliable then why did she leave Majima alone? Also, the topic of how Yoshi was responsible for everything is news to Chisato. She hears that for the first time from Takina in that place, yet it never comes up. Again I have to draw the conclusion that she doesn't care. 9. When did I say that other dark things didn't happen? And the show's "darkness" has been toned down. That's a fact that the writers addmitted to. 10. Yeah she didn't act very surprised to see him. My point is I hope she gave Fuki a heads-up. Otherwise I'd have to conclude that she attempted to kill her friends by Majima's hands. Trust me I didn't aim for 10 points, otherwise I would've named the subject "10 reasons why Chisato is a terrible character. You WON'T BELIEVE #3" like a clickbait youtuber. Points 1, 2, 3, 4, and 8 are examples of her disregard for people's lives. Points 5, 7, and 9 are things that I believe hurt her in terms of possible developements for her character. And I used these points to draw my conclusion about her at the end. Point 6 is just a funny thing I realized, and point 10 will be what episode 13 starts with probably, so it could make that better or worse. My problem is that despite all of that, other characters act like she's an angel. Even Yoshi mockingly asks her if she thinks she's Mother Theresa. Nah man. She's so far away from that. It's absolutely fine if you like a character or a show. Anyone can do that regardless of the flaws/inconsistencies it has. I have no issue with that. 1: Yes, Chisato cares about life, but what can she do about it? They died, and there's nothing she can do to bring them back. She also doesn't know who's targeting them, so she just can't go out and hunt down the person doing this. She doesn't want to kill but knows well that it still happens. 2: Again, what can she do? Chisato can't just tap some wall in her apartment, and a gun comes down from the ceiling and falls into her hands. Like I said before, the two are too even lee matched, and I don't think there is a way for Chisato to fight him. 3: Even still, we didn't see them get hurt or killed. For all we know, they just crashed, and that's all that happened. They might have regained control of the car and didn't crash. I've been in crashes before, and I've never been injured or been close to being killed. Yes, it is odd for her, but Chisato is smart and would most likely be able to avoid them getting hurt. 4: I didn't answer four cause I didn't get it, but now I do. You do know she doesn't like this group? So, of course, she's going to give them a bulshit answer. Plus, how was she going to capture him? She was outnumbered the first time and had nothing to get him the second time. There is no way she'd be able to keep Majima. 5: Yeah, but that was still her choice. Chisato was just giving them the option. Again, I don't think she did anything wrong. 7: Yeah, and she still lived. So, saying that Takina died is misleading. 8: It's like you're ignoring they had other stuff to deal with. Like making sure all the other Lycoris don't die and Japan doesn't start firing guns left and right. Yes, the rope gun is good for a few things, but it's still rope, and it can still be broken. The episode proves that Majima could break out of it, or do you think that's his twin brother? Also, the women they battled had a lot of knives on her. So, unless they can waste time searching for her and get all of them, they're wasting time. Plus, Chisato most likely wants him to get to a hospital and get some help. 9: Not sure what that bit is, but even Japan has to follow some rules on TV. I'm just saying there have been plenty of dark moments in the show. Thou, I don't follow Twitter feeds and other stuff like that. 10: Only time will tell. Just seems like you're nitpicking a few things here and there that don't matter as much. The last few just seem pointless to bring up, as there's still one more episode. |
Sep 22, 2022 6:41 PM
#134
Secret333 said: Piromysl said: Secret333 said: Piromysl said: Secret333 said: Piromysl said: Secret333 said: Piromysl said: Secret333 said: Ionliosite2 said: Don't worry OP, I actually read thought your wall of text. 1- Yeah, if I'm told that 4 people that I don't care anything about and that I also probably don't know died then I might not care as well, call me weird or cold, but it's the truth. 2- I think I no longer remember episode 8. 3- Yes, she killed no one, and no one died, so no betraying of her morals and beliefs. 4- This is just the same as "why does the bad guy sent minions to fight the MC and doesn't he go to kill him before he gets strong?" type of thinking, just convenient writting, so I agree with you that she was weird that scene. 5- Yes, people can be selfish, welcome to reality. She knows that her heart wouldn't have lasted forever either way and it is her desition that she is fine without their help. 7- But Takina isn't dead... 8- Didn't she say that she let Yoshi go because she is grateful to him? And you are also saying your reasoning that she doesn't kill people. As if he could have been tied, probably. 10- How was she supposed to react when he just appeared out of nowhere? At least I don't know if she saw him walking before shooting. The ones I didn't answer I tink because they were extensions of just the previous one and the 6 you yourself said that it was something you found funny. You can find my reasoning faulty since I already started to forget the small details and just remember the important ones. I don't think she is a terrible character, but also definitely not a great one either. 1-If someone told you someone targeted and killed 4 people who are in the same business as you, wear the same uniforms, for the fact that they work in the same field, How would you recive that info? I would take few days off until situation settles down. Also, Chisato is not really in DA. And does not wear the same uniform. I think it was quite heavily emphasized. You sound like you'd take that situation seriously. Now tell me if chisato does that. She's a lycoris like them, the cafe is a subsidiary of the DA and recieves funding from them, and she is wearing the same uniform. Just because the color is different doesn't mean everything else about the design is. Yea, I would totally take situation seriously and NOT do try to avenge strangers, which is not my business. Chisato's entire character is that she refuses to kill people and you are complaining, that she is not going on a rampage... I kept her no killing rule in mind and I said, multiple times, that she doesn't even try to arrest or apprehend the people responsible for numerous deaths. I never said she should go on a rampage. I would expect her to be calm, but still show care for the crimes committed. She doesn't. She's not Batman bruh. Get over it. You are keep trying to force your own morals on others, which is kinda iffy. And she does arrest/restrain hostiles if she can. She literally has a wiregun thingy. I never tried to force my morals on anyone. Who the fuck compared her to batman? And Why oh why does she not use her wiregun thingy to chain Yoshi the terrorist funder? You are constantly complaining that Chisato does not act as you would and doesn't bother you avenge some strangers. You expect her to take justice into her own hands like some sort of Batman. And she let Yoshi go literally because he is like a father to her and owns him her life. She doesn't give a slightest flying fuck about this whole DA stuff, which was emphasized A LOT. She doesn't consider herself and enforcer of justice or anything like that. She states that her mission is to be a savior. Have you forgotten about that? She doesn't feel right to take people's lives away from them, but A-OK with terrorists taking people's lives away from them? Nice logical thinking there. "I hate people who waste their lives" says Chisato in the last episode. I would like you to imagine how she feels about people who waste other people's lives. The show doesn't realize that it made her careless, that's why there's a disconnet between what you say she is, and what the show thinks she is. *COUGH BATMAN COUGH* A character is responsible for THEIR OWN actions, not for the actions of others. A hero lives by their code of values in rebellion to everything else. This is why characters like Batman or Deku or whoever else you want to compare to Chisato resonates with the audience, and makes their fights valid. The criticism as to whether what they do is more bad than good can be debated, but that doesn’t mean they are bad characters. The storyline of Lycoris Recoil can be scrutinized because it lacks a lot of follow through in a lot of areas, but the characters have all been consistent with who they have demonstrated themselves to be... |
Sep 22, 2022 6:47 PM
#135
SkyhighCFC said: thunderkitten667 said: SaiyanGod_15 said: Cope & Seethe like the rest of them. I bet half of you didn't even watch it and those that did just don't understand it, The hate is unreal. Just mad the show is more popular than whatever you're watching currently But by all means Say what you will :) Honestly. The hate threads are coming on after Lycoris Recoil has been dominating for 11 weeks. I would understand after week 3, but week 11? They just can’t stand a Chisato and Takina dominating the spotlight, an original anime only series that is more popular than shows that are even on their second season. Dominating? What exactly is Lyco Reco dominating? It's not even the most popular show this season lmao Wait to you find out what’s been the number one trending anime for the past 11 weeks in Japan... |
Sep 22, 2022 6:52 PM
#136
| Man is crying in the responses rn |
Sep 22, 2022 7:12 PM
#137
| I agree with the OP, I was so confused when I started watching around when episode 6 aired. People were saying, "Chisato is best girl of the season," while I just thought she was stupid. |
   "But we're gonna chill today. Let me rock the world tomorrow." ~ Lotus Juice  |
Sep 22, 2022 7:18 PM
#138
| Damn bro, that's crazy. Too bad I don't care |
Sep 22, 2022 7:33 PM
#139
thunderkitten667 said: SaiyanGod_15 said: Cope & Seethe like the rest of them. I bet half of you didn't even watch it and those that did just don't understand it, The hate is unreal. Just mad the show is more popular than whatever you're watching currently But by all means Say what you will :) Honestly. The hate threads are coming on after Lycoris Recoil has been dominating for 11 weeks. I would understand after week 3, but week 11? They just can’t stand a Chisato and Takina dominating the spotlight, an original anime only series that is more popular than shows that are even on their second season. IKR just your typical "It's Popular so let's hate it because it's the cool thing to do" bandwagon. I been seeing this with Bleach as well ever since It's Blood war arc was announced. |
Sep 22, 2022 7:47 PM
#140
thunderkitten667 said: SkyhighCFC said: thunderkitten667 said: SaiyanGod_15 said: Cope & Seethe like the rest of them. I bet half of you didn't even watch it and those that did just don't understand it, The hate is unreal. Just mad the show is more popular than whatever you're watching currently But by all means Say what you will :) Honestly. The hate threads are coming on after Lycoris Recoil has been dominating for 11 weeks. I would understand after week 3, but week 11? They just can’t stand a Chisato and Takina dominating the spotlight, an original anime only series that is more popular than shows that are even on their second season. Dominating? What exactly is Lyco Reco dominating? It's not even the most popular show this season lmao Wait to you find out what’s been the number one trending anime for the past 11 weeks in Japan... That would be classroom of the elite. But nice try 👍 |
Sep 22, 2022 8:54 PM
#141
| 100% agree on all Your points. |
| It's Morbin' Time! |
Sep 22, 2022 8:55 PM
#142
| These "criticisms" come out more as nitpicks and dont actually say anything but how you cant vibe with the character. Like criticism against the physics (except your 6th point which is also a nitpick) and the pacing are legit, but much of what you wrote about Chisato's character just boils down to "I dont like that shes not being a hero of justice character" when she never was written to be a classic hero archetype. |
RobertsahDHDASep 22, 2022 8:59 PM
| Keep scrolling |
Sep 22, 2022 9:04 PM
#143
| so a character is bad because they have an character flaw and don't act like edgy power fantasy portagonist 1000? I get that people on mal don't like being reminded that they are flawed humans, but to bad we all have our flaws our hypocrites and we are not perfect. You call it a bad character I call it realistic. SkyhighCFC said: thunderkitten667 said: SkyhighCFC said: thunderkitten667 said: SaiyanGod_15 said: Cope & Seethe like the rest of them. I bet half of you didn't even watch it and those that did just don't understand it, The hate is unreal. Just mad the show is more popular than whatever you're watching currently But by all means Say what you will :) Honestly. The hate threads are coming on after Lycoris Recoil has been dominating for 11 weeks. I would understand after week 3, but week 11? They just can’t stand a Chisato and Takina dominating the spotlight, an original anime only series that is more popular than shows that are even on their second season. Dominating? What exactly is Lyco Reco dominating? It's not even the most popular show this season lmao Wait to you find out what’s been the number one trending anime for the past 11 weeks in Japan... That would be classroom of the elite. But nice try 👍 never heard of it. |
GrimAtramentSep 22, 2022 9:17 PM
| "among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus  |
Sep 22, 2022 9:09 PM
#144
SkyhighCFC said: thunderkitten667 said: SkyhighCFC said: thunderkitten667 said: SaiyanGod_15 said: Cope & Seethe like the rest of them. I bet half of you didn't even watch it and those that did just don't understand it, The hate is unreal. Just mad the show is more popular than whatever you're watching currently But by all means Say what you will :) Honestly. The hate threads are coming on after Lycoris Recoil has been dominating for 11 weeks. I would understand after week 3, but week 11? They just can’t stand a Chisato and Takina dominating the spotlight, an original anime only series that is more popular than shows that are even on their second season. Dominating? What exactly is Lyco Reco dominating? It's not even the most popular show this season lmao Wait to you find out what’s been the number one trending anime for the past 11 weeks in Japan... That would be classroom of the elite. But nice try 👍 According to Niconico, Lycoris Recoil is second only to Uncle from Another world, but only as of recently, since it has been number one for the past 11 weeks. Next time do your research? |
Sep 22, 2022 9:46 PM
#145
SaiyanGod_15 said: we get threads like this every time we have a protagonist that's not ax crazy.thunderkitten667 said: SaiyanGod_15 said: Cope & Seethe like the rest of them. I bet half of you didn't even watch it and those that did just don't understand it, The hate is unreal. Just mad the show is more popular than whatever you're watching currently But by all means Say what you will :) Honestly. The hate threads are coming on after Lycoris Recoil has been dominating for 11 weeks. I would understand after week 3, but week 11? They just can’t stand a Chisato and Takina dominating the spotlight, an original anime only series that is more popular than shows that are even on their second season. IKR just your typical "It's Popular so let's hate it because it's the cool thing to do" bandwagon. I been seeing this with Bleach as well ever since It's Blood war arc was announced. |
| "among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus |
Sep 22, 2022 10:27 PM
#146
SaiyanGod_15 said: thunderkitten667 said: SaiyanGod_15 said: Cope & Seethe like the rest of them. I bet half of you didn't even watch it and those that did just don't understand it, The hate is unreal. Just mad the show is more popular than whatever you're watching currently But by all means Say what you will :) Honestly. The hate threads are coming on after Lycoris Recoil has been dominating for 11 weeks. I would understand after week 3, but week 11? They just can’t stand a Chisato and Takina dominating the spotlight, an original anime only series that is more popular than shows that are even on their second season. IKR just your typical "It's Popular so let's hate it because it's the cool thing to do" bandwagon. I been seeing this with Bleach as well ever since It's Blood war arc was announced. I saw someone say the new Chainsaw Man anime will “destroy” the new Bleach series, I’m just like “Chainsaw Man is barely getting it’s first season, omfg”. I haven’t even seen AOT fans be as rabid towards anything as bad as that lol. We both appreciate Lycoris Recoil, and know how good it is, so that’s all that matters! I’m just here to laugh at the nonsense takes lol. |
Sep 23, 2022 1:11 AM
#147
animedude1287 said: Secret333 said: animedude1287 said: While some of your points are fine, a lot of these feel like nitpicks, or your just looking too deep into specific parts. I'm not going through this whole list, but I'll leave my points and go from there. 1: Why would Chisato even care about the other members? I get what your trying to say, but these girls are in a field of work where they could easily be killed. Chisato doesn't seem to be a person who would worry about those kinds of things. 2: The two are in a deadlock. Majima can't hit Chisato, and Chisato can't fight back without her gun. Yes, Chisato could have tried to take the gun, but she could have easily failed and gotten herself shot. 3: That part was most likely for comedy, as they most likely the guys in the car didn't die. There were no other cars, and even if they crashed, they could have still survived. 5: While you could view that as selfishness, Chisato wants to let her friends enjoy their lives and enjoy it then wasting time trying to find a cure when there might not be one. It's selfishness, but that's what Chisato wants. 7: Wow, I didn't know Takina turned into a zombie at that part. This girl has taken on full-grown men. Pretty sure she could hold her own. 8: You do realize even if Chisato ties him and the other women up, they can still break out of it and escape? The woman had a dozen knives on her, or they could have used the broken glasses or something to break out. Pretty sure they have other problems to deal with, like, you know, stopping a whole city from going crazy and people finding guns and shooting at every school girl in the city. 9: You just want to make sure you have an even 10. You're ignoring the show's whole season if you don't think other dark things have happened. 10: She most likely knew he was there. Still, only the next episode will tell us how things play out. I could go either way on this character. Yeah, her abilities and persaonliety are a bit odd, but I still like her. You went through all my points, and didn't just disregard/ignore what I wrote and resort to insults. So I really appreciate that. Now, about the points you made: 1. My point is that it's incongruent with her values. She supposedly values lives so much she refuses to take them out herself. And yet her reaction to the news that several lycorises were targeted and killed is pure apathy. So do we want to agree that she just doesn't care? And what does that say about her? 2. She doesn't even try. Even when Takina arrives she doesn't try to attack him while he walks to the door. If she tried and failed that'd be one thing, but she didn't. And this is after he killed a lot of people last episode so you'd think she'd be a liiiiiittle bit pissed off, but she isn't. Again showing her lack of care for the lives that were lost. 3. As I said, I don't think the writers realize that she put innocent lives in danger. I don't care what the intent of the scene is if what happens in it is horrible. It's again an example of how she didn't think about the lives she just put in danger, and this one is special since she pointed the guns herself. 5. While the character critisim for this point is mainly towards Kurumi and Mizuki, because they don't voice their opinion against Chisato's, it hurts Chisato's character indirectly. They just accept her wishes and go away. We know Kurumi didn't honor Chisato's wishes and she kept looking, but she just didn't voice any of that to Chisato. Robbing her of the chance to learn to rely on others. To learn that if she impacts people's lives, they'd naturaly come to care about her and use their time and effort to save her. 7. Did you hear how she yelled "Takina!"? She definetly sounded not so sure about her safety. And I don't think part of lycorises training is to DEFY GRAVITY. 8. And again, she didn't even try. She doesn't even have to tie anything herself she has a very convenient gun that does that for her. If that gun is so unreliable then why did she leave Majima alone? Also, the topic of how Yoshi was responsible for everything is news to Chisato. She hears that for the first time from Takina in that place, yet it never comes up. Again I have to draw the conclusion that she doesn't care. 9. When did I say that other dark things didn't happen? And the show's "darkness" has been toned down. That's a fact that the writers addmitted to. 10. Yeah she didn't act very surprised to see him. My point is I hope she gave Fuki a heads-up. Otherwise I'd have to conclude that she attempted to kill her friends by Majima's hands. Trust me I didn't aim for 10 points, otherwise I would've named the subject "10 reasons why Chisato is a terrible character. You WON'T BELIEVE #3" like a clickbait youtuber. Points 1, 2, 3, 4, and 8 are examples of her disregard for people's lives. Points 5, 7, and 9 are things that I believe hurt her in terms of possible developements for her character. And I used these points to draw my conclusion about her at the end. Point 6 is just a funny thing I realized, and point 10 will be what episode 13 starts with probably, so it could make that better or worse. My problem is that despite all of that, other characters act like she's an angel. Even Yoshi mockingly asks her if she thinks she's Mother Theresa. Nah man. She's so far away from that. It's absolutely fine if you like a character or a show. Anyone can do that regardless of the flaws/inconsistencies it has. I have no issue with that. 1: Yes, Chisato cares about life, but what can she do about it? They died, and there's nothing she can do to bring them back. She also doesn't know who's targeting them, so she just can't go out and hunt down the person doing this. She doesn't want to kill but knows well that it still happens. 2: Again, what can she do? Chisato can't just tap some wall in her apartment, and a gun comes down from the ceiling and falls into her hands. Like I said before, the two are too even lee matched, and I don't think there is a way for Chisato to fight him. 3: Even still, we didn't see them get hurt or killed. For all we know, they just crashed, and that's all that happened. They might have regained control of the car and didn't crash. I've been in crashes before, and I've never been injured or been close to being killed. Yes, it is odd for her, but Chisato is smart and would most likely be able to avoid them getting hurt. 4: I didn't answer four cause I didn't get it, but now I do. You do know she doesn't like this group? So, of course, she's going to give them a bulshit answer. Plus, how was she going to capture him? She was outnumbered the first time and had nothing to get him the second time. There is no way she'd be able to keep Majima. 5: Yeah, but that was still her choice. Chisato was just giving them the option. Again, I don't think she did anything wrong. 7: Yeah, and she still lived. So, saying that Takina died is misleading. 8: It's like you're ignoring they had other stuff to deal with. Like making sure all the other Lycoris don't die and Japan doesn't start firing guns left and right. Yes, the rope gun is good for a few things, but it's still rope, and it can still be broken. The episode proves that Majima could break out of it, or do you think that's his twin brother? Also, the women they battled had a lot of knives on her. So, unless they can waste time searching for her and get all of them, they're wasting time. Plus, Chisato most likely wants him to get to a hospital and get some help. 9: Not sure what that bit is, but even Japan has to follow some rules on TV. I'm just saying there have been plenty of dark moments in the show. Thou, I don't follow Twitter feeds and other stuff like that. 10: Only time will tell. Just seems like you're nitpicking a few things here and there that don't matter as much. The last few just seem pointless to bring up, as there's still one more episode. 1. She could've shown even the slightest hint of seriousness rather than her "4 people died? eh, whatever" 2. She could've tried. 3. If Chisato went and planted a bomb and detonated it because she's sad, but no one died due to sheer luck and not anything she did, would you call that in character because nobody died? 4. Again, she could've tried. You see how Takina tried to hit him after he ran away. Something like that. And her not liking DA shouldn't have anything to do with capturing a terrorist. 5. She didn't give them any option, she just kicked them out and closed the shop down. 7. People took this line litteraly and fail to see the point behind it so they just say "she didn't die though" and think they responded. I know she's not dead. I say she doesn't die in the post. And I say that the only reason she doesn't die isn't because of Chisato stopping the woman, but just due to sheer luck on the side of Takina. 8. Until Mizuki and Kurumi pulled in with the helicopter and explained the situation, they didn't have any of that on their mind. And Chisato and Takina clearly think the rope gun is relieble since the left Majima alone after they tied him up. We, the audience, know it's not relieble by the end of the episode. The charecters do not. 9. You brought that up out of nowhere, saying that I don't think other dark things happened when I never said anything like that. You know what? The points I raised do not matter to the show, because like I said, I don't think the writers are aware of them. We're not gonna get a scene where Takina asks Chisato "why the hell did you let her kick me out of a window possibly to my death?" because the writers don't think that's something that happened. And at what point do we have enough "nitpicks" to conclude that there's a problem with what the show tells us vs what we see? |
Sep 23, 2022 1:14 AM
#148
BobertkcussineP said: These "criticisms" come out more as nitpicks and dont actually say anything but how you cant vibe with the character. Like criticism against the physics (except your 6th point which is also a nitpick) and the pacing are legit, but much of what you wrote about Chisato's character just boils down to "I dont like that shes not being a hero of justice character" when she never was written to be a classic hero archetype. Nice strawman mate. |
Sep 23, 2022 2:15 AM
#149
| are you getting money with writing that long essay boi? no one care |
Sep 23, 2022 2:22 AM
#150
| Why does Chisato's destruction work while the destruction in Man of Steel doesn't? |
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