Aardwolf94 said: She and Shirou both suck ass. The story of HF actually had potential and would be good with two better leads. I'm rooting for Kirei! Crazy how the story wouldn't even work if it wasn't for Shirou and Sakura in the first place |
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ssjokg said: You are one of those guys that say Casca enjoyed it aren't you? I'm sensing projection there. |
| Go ahead, reply. I'm not going to read it. |
_Poxy_ said: I am sensing some weak bait there.ssjokg said: You are one of those guys that say Casca enjoyed it aren't you? I'm sensing projection there. |
Abhinandan2002 said: Aardwolf94 said: She and Shirou both suck ass. The story of HF actually had potential and would be good with two better leads. I'm rooting for Kirei! ππ If shiro totally like his father kiritsugu then When he know she dangerous for society then he instantly killed sakura. Who know kirei do what in next serie.I hope he he killed shiro or sakura,one of them. lol that would have been the right thing to do but Shirou prefers pussy over saving people after annoying us with the hero crap for the whole UBW season. Kirei needs to murder them both and achieve his goal ASAP |
| Just you. I find her as a good waifu material. |
Aardwolf94 said: Abhinandan2002 said: ππ If shiro totally like his father kiritsugu then When he know she dangerous for society then he instantly killed sakura. Who know kirei do what in next serie.I hope he he killed shiro or sakura,one of them. lol that would have been the right thing to do but Shirou prefers pussy over saving people after annoying us with the hero crap for the whole UBW season. Kirei needs to murder them both and achieve his goal ASAP Not at you trying to oversimplify all the context than went to that decision and comparing both routes that have drastically different approaches regarding the plot. Like girl you seem like the pretentious intellectual so I kinda expected more solid stances you know... but all we got here are 4chan levels of criticisms. I doubt you even know what Kirei's goal is lol. |
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Dull_Lull said: Aardwolf94 said: lol that would have been the right thing to do but Shirou prefers pussy over saving people after annoying us with the hero crap for the whole UBW season. Kirei needs to murder them both and achieve his goal ASAP Not at you trying to oversimplify all the context than went to that decision and comparing both routes that have drastically different approaches regarding the plot. Like girl you seem like the pretentious intellectual so I kinda expected more solid stances you know... but all we got here are 4chan levels of criticisms. I doubt you even know what Kirei's goal is lol. Chill, I'm just making fun of the series lol. No need to get mad here. I never claimed to be a "pretentious intellectual" Also I never liked Shirou and HF only makes it more clear how obnoxious he is. Remember in UBW (or Fate from what I have seen of the Deen anime) Shirou doesn't get "tested" once, he keeps preaching about bullshit ideals and sticks to them but HF shows clearly that if he was put in the same position (like imagine if it was Rin in a similiar situation in UBW) he would still pick her over countless of innocents dying. And then of course he is even rewarded for it and gets a happy harem ending (I looked up the VN ending on youtube), there are literally zero consequences. This confirms that F/Z is really the only good part of the Fate franchise (waiting for you to bash it now and insult me more, already had this type of discussion a few times here) |
Aardwolf94 said: Dull_Lull said: Not at you trying to oversimplify all the context than went to that decision and comparing both routes that have drastically different approaches regarding the plot. Like girl you seem like the pretentious intellectual so I kinda expected more solid stances you know... but all we got here are 4chan levels of criticisms. I doubt you even know what Kirei's goal is lol. Chill, I'm just making fun of the series lol. No need to get mad here. I never claimed to be a "pretentious intellectual" Also I never liked Shirou and HF only makes it more clear how obnoxious he is. Remember in UBW (or Fate from what I have seen of the Deen anime) Shirou doesn't get "tested" once, he keeps preaching about bullshit ideals and sticks to them but HF shows clearly that if he was put in the same position (like imagine if it was Rin in a similiar situation in UBW) he would still pick her over countless of innocents dying. And then of course he is even rewarded for it and gets a happy harem ending (I looked up the VN ending on youtube), there are literally zero consequences. This confirms that F/Z is really the only good part of the Fate franchise (waiting for you to bash it now and insult me more, already had this type of discussion a few times here) Baby... the clear ignorance is really showing here. That's literally the entire point of having multiple routes in the first place. To test his decisions and to see how the story would play out in a different scenario and Shirou did acknowledge that his ideal is just hypocrisy on his part as he is aware and not deluded that he can never save everyone. Crazy how you like to shit on his "bullshit ideals" as if he didn't get that from a certain character y'all love to dickride on. "Rewarded for it" "happy harem ending" No, you did not read it then so spare me the excuses because that's not what happened but I wouldn't be surprised if you've already gotten a preconceived notion of it while "looking up" the ending because that seems to be the case. You basically just confirmed what I suspected. Tragic ending = better... girl... the whole point was to stop the ritual in the first place and that's what happened. Not exactly, Shirou's fault the characters in HF are more competent at handling the war. I ain't bashing anything bby. I do like Zero myself but I won't hold back on pointing out hypocritical criticisms as this is basically the case most of the time for zero secondaries. |
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Dull_Lull said: Aardwolf94 said: Chill, I'm just making fun of the series lol. No need to get mad here. I never claimed to be a "pretentious intellectual" Also I never liked Shirou and HF only makes it more clear how obnoxious he is. Remember in UBW (or Fate from what I have seen of the Deen anime) Shirou doesn't get "tested" once, he keeps preaching about bullshit ideals and sticks to them but HF shows clearly that if he was put in the same position (like imagine if it was Rin in a similiar situation in UBW) he would still pick her over countless of innocents dying. And then of course he is even rewarded for it and gets a happy harem ending (I looked up the VN ending on youtube), there are literally zero consequences. This confirms that F/Z is really the only good part of the Fate franchise (waiting for you to bash it now and insult me more, already had this type of discussion a few times here) Baby... the clear ignorance is really showing here. That's literally the entire point of having multiple routes in the first place. To test his decisions and to see how the story would play out in a different scenario and Shirou did acknowledge that his ideal is just hypocrisy on his part as he is aware and not deluded that he can never save everyone. Crazy how you like to shit on his "bullshit ideals" as if he didn't get that from a certain character y'all love to dickride on. "Rewarded for it" "happy harem ending" No, you did not read it then so spare me the excuses because that's not what happened but I wouldn't be surprised if you've already gotten a preconceived notion of it while "looking up" the ending because that seems to be the case. You basically just confirmed what I suspected. Tragic ending = better... girl... the whole point was to stop the ritual in the first place and that's what happened. Not exactly, Shirou's fault the characters in HF are more competent at handling the war. I ain't bashing anything bby. I do like Zero myself but I won't hold back on pointing out hypocritical criticisms as this is basically the case most of the time for zero secondaries. That just makes his character weak though, since its always the same Shirou just put in different situations. So his constant preaching in the first two routes is even more obnoxious now that we know that he was full of shit all along. There is a difference to not being able to save everyone (which would be understandable) and actively choosing one person over countless of innocents. Also Kiritsugu always put the needs of the majority over the minority. He got over his Shounen esque ideals as soon as he didn't manage to kill Shirley. How on earth are they similiar lol Thats exactly what happened. I saw the ending with Shioru conveniently getting a new body (so all the build up to his body being destroyed didn't matter) + happy ending with Sakura and even freaking Rider. Tragic ending would be better here considering the damage Shirou and Sakura caused. I'm not saying they should fail at stopping the ritual but at least there shouldn't be a cheesy happy ending (Shirou and/or Sakura should die). Lol at the characters being more capable, they already knew about the true nature of the grail (unlike in F/Z, hell Illya spoon feeds the whole thing to Shirou) + Shirou got a ridiculous power up to keep up. btw why do you keep calling me girl, I'm a dude lol. |
Aardwolf94 said: Dull_Lull said: Baby... the clear ignorance is really showing here. That's literally the entire point of having multiple routes in the first place. To test his decisions and to see how the story would play out in a different scenario and Shirou did acknowledge that his ideal is just hypocrisy on his part as he is aware and not deluded that he can never save everyone. Crazy how you like to shit on his "bullshit ideals" as if he didn't get that from a certain character y'all love to dickride on. "Rewarded for it" "happy harem ending" No, you did not read it then so spare me the excuses because that's not what happened but I wouldn't be surprised if you've already gotten a preconceived notion of it while "looking up" the ending because that seems to be the case. You basically just confirmed what I suspected. Tragic ending = better... girl... the whole point was to stop the ritual in the first place and that's what happened. Not exactly, Shirou's fault the characters in HF are more competent at handling the war. I ain't bashing anything bby. I do like Zero myself but I won't hold back on pointing out hypocritical criticisms as this is basically the case most of the time for zero secondaries. That just makes his character weak though, since its always the same Shirou just put in different situations. So his constant preaching in the first two routes is even more obnoxious now that we know that he was full of shit all along. There is a difference to not being able to save everyone (which would be understandable) and actively choosing one person over countless of innocents. Also Kiritsugu always put the needs of the majority over the minority. He got over his Shounen esque ideals as soon as he didn't manage to kill Shirley. How on earth are they similiar lol Thats exactly what happened. I saw the ending with Shioru conveniently getting a new body (so all the build up to his body being destroyed didn't matter) + happy ending with Sakura and even freaking Rider. Tragic ending would be better here considering the damage Shirou and Sakura caused. I'm not saying they should fail at stopping the ritual but at least there shouldn't be a cheesy happy ending (Shirou and/or Sakura should die). Lol at the characters being more capable, they already knew about the true nature of the grail (unlike in F/Z, hell Illya spoon feeds the whole thing to Shirou) + Shirou got a ridiculous power up to keep up. btw why do you keep calling me girl, I'm a dude lol. Lol that literally makes him all the more complex. What you're doing and most people seem to do is basically just oversimplifying his character as that guy who preaches his ideals when a lot of context goes into it. He literally explained it to Kirei that he only held on to his ideals as a way for him to live because he has nothing for himself. Unlike in other routes, HF backed him into a corner and gave him one thing that made him want to actively protect for the first time. Not at y'all blatantly ignoring all the monologues and his guilt eating up his conscience when that's been prevalent in the entire route. At his core, he's literally still the same idealistic guy but he's not deluded enough to keep blindly believing in something when he's presented with the most extreme decisions. Sakura did nothing and yet the whole world turned against her. Why in the world would it even be a bad thing for her to be happy for once. She's painfully aware of what she's done even if some of them were unconscious actions which is why she atones for it in the epilogue in the first place. Hollow Ataraxia even further reinforces this. Girl... Kiritsugu's ideals is literally the same. Why else in world a hollow shell like Shirou would even try to uphold it in the first place. The only difference here is they have different methods of how they do things where the former only leads to more killings compromising his happiness for the sake of some childish ideal. Girl... why are you acting like his body getting destroyed is an end all be all situation when it really did get destroyed. Not exactly his fault he was able to bond with Illya who is a more competent grail that managed to execute the 3rd magic. The concept of transferring of souls have literally existed since Kara no Kyoukai. That's not even the same Shirou anymore. They only knew that towards the end in other routes. HF is the only route where they discovered how it truly works due to special circumstances. Gilgamesh exists and you're losing hairs over Medusa when it perfectly makes sense within the rules of the its universe. Not exactly Shirou's fault either his future self existed in the same timeline as him lol. |
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| Thinking a tragic ending would be better because it would be tragic and full of karma.... You really think Kiritsugu is any less obnoxious.... Kiritusgu, the guy that was so butthurt that Saber is a woman and took on an idealistic path...that is the same exact shit he did till he met Iri.... that he endangered the entire war by making their Master-Servant relationship worse.Imagine calling this crybaby a better character than the one that actually grows differently i each route by facing his flaws and hypocrisy. Kiritsugu kept killing anyone in his way just because he couldnt get over his guilt. That isnt even an ideal he just cant deal with his past. Wait who else pretends to use an ideal because he cant deal with his life?Oh right.... And guess what.Different experiences make people develop differently. News flash in case you didnt know. A character that is static no matter the circumstances is one dimensional. Kiritsugu barely avoids that because of the sudden and shocking end of Zero. Not surprised with this"this isnt dark enough"bullshit but it sure gets tiring. |
Dull_Lull said: Aardwolf94 said: That just makes his character weak though, since its always the same Shirou just put in different situations. So his constant preaching in the first two routes is even more obnoxious now that we know that he was full of shit all along. There is a difference to not being able to save everyone (which would be understandable) and actively choosing one person over countless of innocents. Also Kiritsugu always put the needs of the majority over the minority. He got over his Shounen esque ideals as soon as he didn't manage to kill Shirley. How on earth are they similiar lol Thats exactly what happened. I saw the ending with Shioru conveniently getting a new body (so all the build up to his body being destroyed didn't matter) + happy ending with Sakura and even freaking Rider. Tragic ending would be better here considering the damage Shirou and Sakura caused. I'm not saying they should fail at stopping the ritual but at least there shouldn't be a cheesy happy ending (Shirou and/or Sakura should die). Lol at the characters being more capable, they already knew about the true nature of the grail (unlike in F/Z, hell Illya spoon feeds the whole thing to Shirou) + Shirou got a ridiculous power up to keep up. btw why do you keep calling me girl, I'm a dude lol. Lol that literally makes him all the more complex. What you're doing and most people seem to do is basically just oversimplifying his character as that guy who preaches his ideals when a lot of context goes into it. He literally explained it to Kirei that he only held on to his ideals as a way for him to live because he has nothing for himself. Unlike in other routes, HF backed him into a corner and gave him one thing that made him want to actively protect for the first time. Not at y'all blatantly ignoring all the monologues and his guilt eating up his conscience when that's been prevalent in the entire route. At his core, he's literally still the same idealistic guy but he's not deluded enough to keep blindly believing in something when he's presented with the most extreme decisions. Sakura did nothing and yet the whole world turned against her. Why in the world would it even be a bad thing for her to be happy for once. She's painfully aware of what she's done even if some of them were unconscious actions which is why she atones for it in the epilogue in the first place. Hollow Ataraxia even further reinforces this. Girl... Kiritsugu's ideals is literally the same. Why else in world a hollow shell like Shirou would even try to uphold it in the first place. The only difference here is they have different methods of how they do things where the former only leads to more killings compromising his happiness for the sake of some childish ideal. Girl... why are you acting like his body getting destroyed is an end all be all situation when it really did get destroyed. Not exactly his fault he was able to bond with Illya who is a more competent grail that managed to execute the 3rd magic. The concept of transferring of souls have literally existed since Kara no Kyoukai. That's not even the same Shirou anymore. They only knew that towards the end in other routes. HF is the only route where they discovered how it truly works due to special circumstances. Gilgamesh exists and you're losing hairs over Medusa when it perfectly makes sense within the rules of the its universe. Not exactly Shirou's fault either his future self existed in the same timeline as him lol. Yeah I'm sure the countless of innocent people who died because of Sakura "turned on her" lol. Sakura being happy at the expense of so many lives is ridiculous, in fact IRL this would be considered pure evil yet in the game its somehow "heroic". I have never seen more selfish leads (if they are then they are portrayed as anti heroes and don't get disney endings). Shirou's supposed guilt "eats up his conscience" and then he gets a perfect happy ending. Where are the consequences? How do they atone? Literally saw nothing of that in the epilogue How are they the same ideals? Kiritsugu is ready to kill tons of people, just so the majority survives. Meanwhile Shirou in the first two routes has the classic "safe everyone" Shounen MC mindset and once he is tested in HF he does the exact opposite of what Kiritsugu would have done. He lets tons of people die so the girl he loves can be happy. So you don't see how cheap it is to have his body be destroyed..only for him to get some new body immediately after that just so he gets a happy ending? Lol. Great "consequences". And Gilgamesh staying after F/Z (via dark means) is again very different from Rider staying just for the sake of a harem ending. Overall this is the problem with F/SN isn't it, tons of convenient bs and plot armor just so Shirou survives and gets perfect endings. Anyway we won't agree anyway so I don't think continuing this makes sense. |
| Should I remind some people that Kiritsugu was spared by an enemy Servant after he brutally injured their Master? Should I remind that he conveniently gets the plot armor he needs to survive the final battle? Should I remind that he conveniently wakes up first from an illusion and "kills" the villain? And the list can go on. But no FSN and Shirou are full of bs and plot armor. |
ssjokg said: Thinking a tragic ending would be better because it would be tragic and full of karma.... You really think Kiritsugu is any less obnoxious.... Kiritusgu, the guy that was so butthurt that Saber is a woman and took on an idealistic path...that is the same exact shit he did till he met Iri.... that he endangered the entire war by making their Master-Servant relationship worse.Imagine calling this crybaby a better character than the one that actually grows differently i each route by facing his flaws and hypocrisy. Kiritsugu kept killing anyone in his way just because he couldnt get over his guilt. That isnt even an ideal he just cant deal with his past. Wait who else pretends to use an ideal because he cant deal with his life?Oh right.... And guess what.Different experiences make people develop differently. News flash in case you didnt know. A character that is static no matter the circumstances is one dimensional. Kiritsugu barely avoids that because of the sudden and shocking end of Zero. Not surprised with this"this isnt dark enough"bullshit but it sure gets tiring. As expected more whining about F/Z and Kiritsugu because I dared to trash Shirou and F/SN lol, typical. Yeah Kiritsugu was definitely not "obnoxious", even if he did ruthless & bad things. First off he was actually a refreshing character while Shirou (first two routes especially) is as generic as it gets (btw he is more sexist, considering how he kept whining about how Saber shouldn't fight..at least Kiritsugu was just against Saber because of her ideals). Shirou's constant preaching and stupidity is also annoying as hell, he is inacapable as a master and only survives constantly via cheap plot armor/luck (and ridiculous power ups see UBW and HF). He never really grows until HF, where as soon as he is tested by a serious situation (easy to talk about big ideals when everything goes easy for you) he backs out in favour of "love"..which makes his previous Shounen bullshit even more obnoxious. And unlike Kiritsugu (who got a tragic ending, fitting for a flawed character) Shirou gets cheesy happy endings in all the routes..even in HF where he lets tons of innocents die. But I remember we had this type of discussion before so this is pointless. You will keep bashing F/Z to make F/SN look better while I'll keep calling F/SN trash and F/Z great. |
Aardwolf94May 27, 2020 11:18 AM
Aardwolf94 said: Dull_Lull said: Lol that literally makes him all the more complex. What you're doing and most people seem to do is basically just oversimplifying his character as that guy who preaches his ideals when a lot of context goes into it. He literally explained it to Kirei that he only held on to his ideals as a way for him to live because he has nothing for himself. Unlike in other routes, HF backed him into a corner and gave him one thing that made him want to actively protect for the first time. Not at y'all blatantly ignoring all the monologues and his guilt eating up his conscience when that's been prevalent in the entire route. At his core, he's literally still the same idealistic guy but he's not deluded enough to keep blindly believing in something when he's presented with the most extreme decisions. Sakura did nothing and yet the whole world turned against her. Why in the world would it even be a bad thing for her to be happy for once. She's painfully aware of what she's done even if some of them were unconscious actions which is why she atones for it in the epilogue in the first place. Hollow Ataraxia even further reinforces this. Girl... Kiritsugu's ideals is literally the same. Why else in world a hollow shell like Shirou would even try to uphold it in the first place. The only difference here is they have different methods of how they do things where the former only leads to more killings compromising his happiness for the sake of some childish ideal. Girl... why are you acting like his body getting destroyed is an end all be all situation when it really did get destroyed. Not exactly his fault he was able to bond with Illya who is a more competent grail that managed to execute the 3rd magic. The concept of transferring of souls have literally existed since Kara no Kyoukai. That's not even the same Shirou anymore. They only knew that towards the end in other routes. HF is the only route where they discovered how it truly works due to special circumstances. Gilgamesh exists and you're losing hairs over Medusa when it perfectly makes sense within the rules of the its universe. Not exactly Shirou's fault either his future self existed in the same timeline as him lol. Yeah I'm sure the countless of innocent people who died because of Sakura "turned on her" lol. Sakura being happy at the expense of so many lives is ridiculous, in fact IRL this would be considered pure evil yet in the game its somehow "heroic". I have never seen more selfish leads (if they are then they are portrayed as anti heroes and don't get disney endings). Shirou's supposed guilt "eats up his conscience" and then he gets a perfect happy ending. Where are the consequences? How do they atone? Literally saw nothing of that in the epilogue How are they the same ideals? Kiritsugu is ready to kill tons of people, just so the majority survives. Meanwhile Shirou in the first two routes has the classic "safe everyone" Shounen MC mindset and once he is tested in HF he does the exact opposite of what Kiritsugu would have done. He lets tons of people die so the girl he loves can be happy. So you don't see how cheap it is to have his body be destroyed..only for him to get some new body immediately after that just so he gets a happy ending? Lol. Great "consequences". And Gilgamesh staying after F/Z (via dark means) is again very different from Rider staying just for the sake of a harem ending. Overall this is the problem with F/SN isn't it, tons of convenient bs and plot armor just so Shirou survives and gets perfect endings. Anyway we won't agree anyway so I don't think continuing this makes sense. Girl why did you take the "world against her" part in the most literal sense though? Lmao You really don't get it do you? This ain't as simple as haha Sakura is such a bitch cuz she involved innocent people. I'm really questioning whether you even watched the movie or not or did you understand her character. Her negative feelings are heavily influenced by Angra Mainyu and throughout the entire route, she's been losing her sanity until the final screw went loose and she broke down letting all the negative feelings take over. Why would you blame her for having a normal reaction to things when all her life she's known nothing but misery and nobody knew about it. Obviously she would come to a point where she's gonna curse the world for it but the thing that happened here is that she's been consciously suppressing those emotions because she knew it was wrong. After every night when the shadow appeared, she's been breaking down over the fact that she's turning into a monster she never wanted to become. Not at you complaining about characters sacrificing something for the one they love when you literally have Eren in your favorite characters' list. Girl... have some awareness. HF is literally the route where Shirou is the most human and the farthest away from becoming Archer. Yes he was being selfish and what of it? He chose something most people would. He chose to protect someone who made him happy instead of strangers he never met. And how is Sakura selfish for wanting to be happy for once? After the end of the route, she's painfully aware of what she did and tries her hardest to atone for her sins. Do you really want another movie length for the epilogue or something? ep·i·logue /ΛepΙΛlôΙ‘,ΛepΙΛläΙ‘/ noun a section or speech at the end of a book or play that serves as a comment on or a conclusion to what has happened. The epilogue is there to give a short conclusion after the climax not to detail in full-length how they "atoned" for what they did. Girl... that's literally what I said. They have different methods on how they want to achieve their ideals. Did you even read? And I did not even deny he strayed off his ideals in HF so there was no point bringing that up. His body literally died bby.............. that's not the same Shirou. That was his atonement. He did everything he could to stop Angra Mainyu from being born into the world even if it cost him his life. He literally wanted to do a final projection to destroy the grail if it wasn't for Illya interfering. Girl... why would Rider disappear in the first place? She did not die and she was crucial for taking Rin and Sakura to safety. Are you sure you know what you're talking about? She stayed because she cared and is still in contract with Sakura that had the mana to support her. You really love simplifying stuff and ignoring the context do you? It ain't as simple as haha harem ending as you like to imply. As if Zero did not have the same convenient bs and plot armor. Please... you're talking about an anime set in the same universe bby. They literally work in the same way. FSN is literally the blueprint for Zero like do you even realize how many ideas have been inspired by FSN lmao but I'm not even surprised you think that way anyway. Obviously we won't agree to something when you pull stuff out of your ass. |
Dull_LullMay 27, 2020 11:49 AM
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Aardwolf94 said: ssjokg said: Thinking a tragic ending would be better because it would be tragic and full of karma.... You really think Kiritsugu is any less obnoxious.... Kiritusgu, the guy that was so butthurt that Saber is a woman and took on an idealistic path...that is the same exact shit he did till he met Iri.... that he endangered the entire war by making their Master-Servant relationship worse.Imagine calling this crybaby a better character than the one that actually grows differently i each route by facing his flaws and hypocrisy. Kiritsugu kept killing anyone in his way just because he couldnt get over his guilt. That isnt even an ideal he just cant deal with his past. Wait who else pretends to use an ideal because he cant deal with his life?Oh right.... And guess what.Different experiences make people develop differently. News flash in case you didnt know. A character that is static no matter the circumstances is one dimensional. Kiritsugu barely avoids that because of the sudden and shocking end of Zero. Not surprised with this"this isnt dark enough"bullshit but it sure gets tiring. As expected more whining about F/Z and Kiritsugu because I dared to trash Shirou and F/SN lol, typical. Yeah Kiritsugu was definitely not "obnoxious", even if he did ruthless & bad things. First off he was actually a refreshing character while Shirou (first two routes especially) is as generic as it gets (btw he is more sexist, considering how he kept whining about how Saber shouldn't fight..at least Kiritsugu was just against Saber because of her ideals). Shirou's constant preaching and stupidity is also annoying as hell, he is inacapable as a master and only survives constantly via cheap plot armor/luck (and ridiculous power ups see UBW and HF). He never really grows until HF, where as soon as he is tested by a serious situation (easy to talk about big ideals when everything goes easy for you) he backs out in favour of "love"..which makes his previous Shounen bullshit even more obnoxious. And unlike Kiritsugu (who got a tragic ending, fitting for a flawed character) Shirou gets cheesy happy endings in all the routes..even in HF where he lets tons of innocents die. But I remember we had this type of discussion before so this is pointless. You will keep bashing F/Z to make F/SN look better while I'll keep calling F/SN trash and F/Z great. Haha Shirou sexist because he doesn't want Saber to fight because he treats her as a human haha. Meanwhile, Kiritsugu out here being disappointed she was a girl and not telling her his plans because he thinks she's just a tool but suuure Shirou sexist because he wanted to protect someone as if he didn't get over that phase and acknowledged how stupid it was for him and looking at Saber for who she is. Not at you blatantly ignoring the fact that he had no idea about the Holy Grail War that he was suddenly thrown into and was an inexperienced magus because his own father refused to teach him. You see the difference there when Rin started becoming his teacher? Please... he's more than capable as a master. The one deterring him the most is his ideals. During the battles, he's always aware of the situation and acts accordingly to what he thinks is best unless if something happens that makes his PTSD act up. He literally survived Lancer's 2nd attack on his own before Saber appeared. Rin outright says in HF that he's in charge of execution while she does the planning and even then she still needed his opinion for the most part. "Plot armor" Y'all love to throw this around but can never really back it up when hinged on the question. "Tragic ending fit for his character" bby that ending was literally established since FSN. If you really want to go into technicalities, that ending was bound to happen for FSN to happen lmao. |
Dull_LullMay 27, 2020 11:47 AM
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| >Yeah Kiritsugu was definitely not "obnoxious", even if he did ruthless & bad things. He kept whining about Saber's ways vs his own every time she disapproved of him. No actually he couldnt shut up about that even when Saber wasnt around. >First off he was actually a refreshing character Trigger happy edgy characters arent rare at all. >btw he is more sexist, considering how he kept whining about how Saber shouldn't fight..at least Kiritsugu was just against Saber because of her ideals). Literally cant stand that she was a King as a woman. Ep2 of Zero. On the other hand Shirou uses it as an excuse to not let her get bodied again. >Shirou's constant preaching Funny because he is the one getting preached at. He outright disapproves of Archer letting Caster.But sure yeah he is the generic "I wanna save everyone" MC even when he actually tries to kill others Whatever you say. >he is inacapable as a master and only survives constantly via cheap plot armor/luck Exactly like Kiritsugu then. >He never really grows until HF, where as soon as he is tested by a serious situation Except that he does grow in UBW an Fate. Also you realize that you compare an old man with a teenager right?Kiritsugu didnt have his "ideal" till after he was older than Shirou.We clearly see him wanting to save a father and son(probably) that abandon their cover. HF is an extreme situation. UBW and Fate are serious. They werent exactly easy on him and the rest of the characters. >he backs out in favour of "love"..which makes his previous Shounen bullshit even more obnoxious. He doesnt even preach about what you think he does but ok. In fate he outright tells Saber to not sacrifice herself for others and in UBW he knows that he wont be able to save everyone....even tho he already knew that. >And unlike Kiritsugu (who got a tragic ending, fitting for a flawed character) Shirou gets cheesy happy endings in all the routes.. Shirou learned from his mistakes and changed before the end in all 3 routes. Kiritsugu avoided reality and kept chasing a dream like a child till he brought hell on earth, I dont know man, it seems to me that Shirou is miles better than generic edgelord #28454. A flaw isnt positive when a character never deals with fixing it. Kiritsugu is retarded not flawed. >even in HF where he lets tons of innocents die. So Shirou should have kept his ideals? What's your deal man?Is it stupid to try to save others or not? Should he focus on the people he loves or complete strangers? >You will keep bashing F/Z to make F/SN look better while I'll keep calling F/SN trash and F/Z great. Well it's not like analyzing a character and story was ever the forte of a Zero fanboy. And funny how you say that when pretty much all your posts are trashing FSn and prasing Zero in some way. Your kind ignores any flaws Zero and its characters have and trash FSN for doing the same shit(ironic since Zero is a mostly a copy paste of FSN themes and characters) |
| Dull_Lull said: Aardwolf94 said: As expected more whining about F/Z and Kiritsugu because I dared to trash Shirou and F/SN lol, typical. Yeah Kiritsugu was definitely not "obnoxious", even if he did ruthless & bad things. First off he was actually a refreshing character while Shirou (first two routes especially) is as generic as it gets (btw he is more sexist, considering how he kept whining about how Saber shouldn't fight..at least Kiritsugu was just against Saber because of her ideals). Shirou's constant preaching and stupidity is also annoying as hell, he is inacapable as a master and only survives constantly via cheap plot armor/luck (and ridiculous power ups see UBW and HF). He never really grows until HF, where as soon as he is tested by a serious situation (easy to talk about big ideals when everything goes easy for you) he backs out in favour of "love"..which makes his previous Shounen bullshit even more obnoxious. And unlike Kiritsugu (who got a tragic ending, fitting for a flawed character) Shirou gets cheesy happy endings in all the routes..even in HF where he lets tons of innocents die. But I remember we had this type of discussion before so this is pointless. You will keep bashing F/Z to make F/SN look better while I'll keep calling F/SN trash and F/Z great. Haha Shirou sexist because he doesn't want Saber to fight because he treats her as a human haha. Meanwhile, Kiritsugu out here being disappointed she was a girl and not telling her his plans because he thinks she's just a tool but suuure Shirou sexist because he wanted to protect someone as if he didn't get over that phase and acknowledged how stupid it was for him and looking at Saber for who she is. Not at you blatantly ignoring the fact that he had no idea about the Holy Grail War that he was suddenly thrown into and was an inexperienced magus because his own father refused to teach him. You see the difference there when Rin started becoming his teacher? Please... he's more than capable as a master. The one deterring him the most is his ideals. During the battles, he's always aware of the situation and acts accordingly to what he thinks is best unless if something happens that makes his PTSD act up. He literally survived Lancer's 2nd attack on his own before Saber appeared. Rin outright says in HF that he's in charge of execution while she does the planning and even then she still needed his opinion for the most part. "Plot armor" Y'all love to throw this around but can never really back it up when hinged on the question. "Tragic ending fit for his character" bby that ending was literally established since FSN. If you really want to go into technicalities, that ending was bound to happen for FSN to happen lmao. That Shirou doesn't want freaking King Arthuria (who has fought countless battles and went through a lot) to fight because he "cares" is beyond stupid and quite the whiteknight move from him. It's as sexist as it gets. Imagine IRL if your girlfriend is in the army and you constantly tell her to stay back and not do anything because you want to protect her. Kiritsugu uses everyone as tools, he bashes Saber more because she is his servant and has the opposite ideals. And his actions are not portrayed in a heroic light at all while Shirou "protecting" Saber is shown as some sort of heroic thing. Saber was turned into a weak waifu in the Fate route, her personality changes and she becomes the typical blushing girl obsessing over some dumb High school boy. Well thats the only good thing about F/SN..that it paved the way for F/Z |
| >to fight because he "cares" is beyond stupid and quite the whiteknight move from him. It's as sexist as it gets. Imagine IRL if your girlfriend is in the army and you constantly tell her to stay back and not do anything because you want to protect her. Imagine watching someone almost dying to protect you. What would be the normal reaction? a)Ask them to keep fighting for you b)try to convince them that they dont have to fight for you Imagine being called a white knight because you dont like people getting hurt for you. It doesnt matter that she is King Arthur.Heracles ripped her a new one.That is enough to show anyone that she cant handle it. >Kiritsugu uses everyone as tools Except Saber.Even when she was the only one left he refused to make her do anything. > he bashes Saber more because she is his servant and has the opposite ideals Except they have the same ones. Kiritsugu just happens to be a maniac that kills a cripple and his unconscious fiance because they "might try something". >while Shirou "protecting" Saber is shown as some sort of heroic thing. Except that it isnt.The whole point of Fate and UBW is that Shrou is a hypocrite and his ideals are flawed. >Saber was turned into a weak waifu in the Fate route You mean the route that shows us that she ruled Britain just like Kiritsugu fought his entire life?By sacrificing the few to save the many? >her personality changes You mean she finally becomes human? >and she becomes the typical blushing girl obsessing over some dumb High school boy. Just like edgelord Kiritsugu became a doting father? Funny how he is dumb for trying to live his life the same way Saber did. By sacrificing himself for others. >Well thats the only good thing about F/SN..that it paved the way for F/Z Dude, you failed to understand both Zero and FSN. Dont pretend to know which one is better. |
Aardwolf94 said: Dull_Lull said: Haha Shirou sexist because he doesn't want Saber to fight because he treats her as a human haha. Meanwhile, Kiritsugu out here being disappointed she was a girl and not telling her his plans because he thinks she's just a tool but suuure Shirou sexist because he wanted to protect someone as if he didn't get over that phase and acknowledged how stupid it was for him and looking at Saber for who she is. Not at you blatantly ignoring the fact that he had no idea about the Holy Grail War that he was suddenly thrown into and was an inexperienced magus because his own father refused to teach him. You see the difference there when Rin started becoming his teacher? Please... he's more than capable as a master. The one deterring him the most is his ideals. During the battles, he's always aware of the situation and acts accordingly to what he thinks is best unless if something happens that makes his PTSD act up. He literally survived Lancer's 2nd attack on his own before Saber appeared. Rin outright says in HF that he's in charge of execution while she does the planning and even then she still needed his opinion for the most part. "Plot armor" Y'all love to throw this around but can never really back it up when hinged on the question. "Tragic ending fit for his character" bby that ending was literally established since FSN. If you really want to go into technicalities, that ending was bound to happen for FSN to happen lmao. That Shirou doesn't want freaking King Arthuria (who has fought countless battles and went through a lot) to fight because he "cares" is beyond stupid and quite the whiteknight move from him. It's as sexist as it gets. Imagine IRL if your girlfriend is in the army and you constantly tell her to stay back and not do anything because you want to protect her. Kiritsugu uses everyone as tools, he bashes Saber more because she is his servant and has the opposite ideals. And his actions are not portrayed in a heroic light at all while Shirou "protecting" Saber is shown as some sort of heroic thing. Saber was turned into a weak waifu in the Fate route, her personality changes and she becomes the typical blushing girl obsessing over some dumb High school boy. Well thats the only good thing about F/SN..that it paved the way for F/Z Bby... not at you ignoring all the other points I made and still trying to press on the issue that I've literally just addressed. He did acknowledge it was stupid of him to hold back Saber... did you even pay attention? He knew it was stupid of him to stop her from fighting. He literally gets that drilled into his head when he realized he couldn't win the war on his own. Bby... he knows and he knew it the hard way and he learned from this mistake. After the fight with Rider at the school, he never made the same comment again. It wasn't just as simple as "whiteknight move" bby... since you watched UBW, I was under the impression you already got the gist of Shirou's character but damn... now I'm convinced you really watched FSN with a preconceived notion because no way this went over anyone's heads. I'll say it again, it wasn't as simple as "whiteknight move" lmaooo that literally stemmed from his survivor's guilt and PTSD. He was only making excuses not to see someone die in front of him. I ain't reading that part boo. I've went on too long to reply to repetitive arguments. "Her personality changes" lmaoooo please... Fate route is literally Saber's true personality and the gradual changes are the development she needed to get over her ideals and acknowledge the fact that she did her best as a king. Not at you saying Zero Saber was some kind of masterpiece writing as if Urobuchi didn't just turn her into a dumb blonde to make Iskandar and Kiritsugu look better in comparison. Bby... if you hated how she was portrayed in the Fate route then boy I got some news for you. Do you even know her backstory? Zero Saber was forced into a character archetype that literally goes against her history so that the story could flow smoother not that i expect an Urobuchi fanboy to have some awareness that he basically uses most of his characters as plot devices to convey something. The only good thing that came out of her is that Excalibur scene. |
Dull_LullMay 27, 2020 12:38 PM
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ssjokg said: >Yeah Kiritsugu was definitely not "obnoxious", even if he did ruthless & bad things. He kept whining about Saber's ways vs his own every time she disapproved of him. No actually he couldnt shut up about that even when Saber wasnt around. >First off he was actually a refreshing character Trigger happy edgy characters arent rare at all. >btw he is more sexist, considering how he kept whining about how Saber shouldn't fight..at least Kiritsugu was just against Saber because of her ideals). Literally cant stand that she was a King as a woman. Ep2 of Zero. On the other hand Shirou uses it as an excuse to not let her get bodied again. >Shirou's constant preaching Funny because he is the one getting preached at. He outright disapproves of Archer letting Caster.But sure yeah he is the generic "I wanna save everyone" MC even when he actually tries to kill others Whatever you say. >he is inacapable as a master and only survives constantly via cheap plot armor/luck Exactly like Kiritsugu then. >He never really grows until HF, where as soon as he is tested by a serious situation Except that he does grow in UBW an Fate. Also you realize that you compare an old man with a teenager right?Kiritsugu didnt have his "ideal" till after he was older than Shirou.We clearly see him wanting to save a father and son(probably) that abandon their cover. HF is an extreme situation. UBW and Fate are serious. They werent exactly easy on him and the rest of the characters. >he backs out in favour of "love"..which makes his previous Shounen bullshit even more obnoxious. He doesnt even preach about what you think he does but ok. In fate he outright tells Saber to not sacrifice herself for others and in UBW he knows that he wont be able to save everyone....even tho he already knew that. >And unlike Kiritsugu (who got a tragic ending, fitting for a flawed character) Shirou gets cheesy happy endings in all the routes.. Shirou learned from his mistakes and changed before the end in all 3 routes. Kiritsugu avoided reality and kept chasing a dream like a child till he brought hell on earth, I dont know man, it seems to me that Shirou is miles better than generic edgelord #28454. A flaw isnt positive when a character never deals with fixing it. Kiritsugu is retarded not flawed. >even in HF where he lets tons of innocents die. So Shirou should have kept his ideals? What's your deal man?Is it stupid to try to save others or not? Should he focus on the people he loves or complete strangers? >You will keep bashing F/Z to make F/SN look better while I'll keep calling F/SN trash and F/Z great. Well it's not like analyzing a character and story was ever the forte of a Zero fanboy. And funny how you say that when pretty much all your posts are trashing FSn and prasing Zero in some way. Your kind ignores any flaws Zero and its characters have and trash FSN for doing the same shit(ironic since Zero is a mostly a copy paste of FSN themes and characters) Yeah and Saber whined about him. Their conflict was interesting, especially in the second season when their ideals "clash" (the whole thing with Lancer and his master). I prefer that over the ridiculous Saber/Shirou romance (her falling in love with a dumb highschool boy is some cheap harem level writing) or her being a robot in UBW or her being turned evil in HF. There is much more to Kiritsugu than that and in fact a 30+ year old anti hero MC is very refreshing in anime. Compare that with Shirou, the same old "nice guy" High school MC who has basically a harem and is dragged into some supernatural conflict (jeez where have I seen that before) Not really Shirou preaches to Archer, Rin, Saber, even Kirei etc. his morally superior crap gets old real fast. Kiritsugu was a trained killer, the conveniences in his story (which are there but rare and mostly towards teh end) are more acceptable than in Shioru's where he doesn't know shit and gets "almost" killed repeatedly only to be saved/healed without any problems. Not to mention he gets a ridiculous power up in UBW that puts him at Gilgamesh's level (wtf). So no, not like Kiritsugu. Not in any meaningful way. In Fate he is literally the same and is crazy about his ideals, only sad about Saber. In UBW he says will keep pursuing his ideals even though he knows they aren't achievable so that's very little growth too. Like anyone with a brain would knew that its not possible to save everyone. Both endings don't actually judge Shirou's decisions as wrong (even though they are) and leave things "happy" so Shirou gets his ending with his waifu's. In HF he abandons his ideals ASAP for a girl, leads to tons of innocents dying and still gets everything handed to him. That's "growth" I suppose but makes him more unlikable. The difference is in F/Z there were real consequences, it wasn't made to give the player (F/SN is an eroge after all) waifu's and cheesy happy endings. Kiritsugu is a tragic character, his flaws are not meant to be a positive (and he pays for it, unlike Shirou). Thats so much better than Generic Shounen Harem protagonist #5242 Shirou's ideals of saving everyone were bullshit so he wasn't going to keep them either way in HF. But he decided to let countless innocents die so Sakura is safe (instead of saving as many as possible), that's simply wrong which again would be fine if there were consequences..there aren't and they get a disney happy ending. I have never seen such selfish people rewarded like this and them being portrayed as heroes (the main problem). Your kind ignores any flaws of F/SN (always tons of excuses ready) and considers it to be a masterpiece, so you are not any better here. Copy & paste? How? And even if thats true everything in F/Z was executed better. Why have you rate F/Z so highly if you hate it so much |
Aardwolf94May 27, 2020 12:43 PM
| Oh look still the same stuff you posted a hundred posts ago. Sigh. How sad that when even the authors come out and talk about how they wrote some characters in Zero, you still believe that they are well written. Or at least better than their counterparts in FSN. |
Aardwolf94 said: ssjokg said: >Yeah Kiritsugu was definitely not "obnoxious", even if he did ruthless & bad things. He kept whining about Saber's ways vs his own every time she disapproved of him. No actually he couldnt shut up about that even when Saber wasnt around. >First off he was actually a refreshing character Trigger happy edgy characters arent rare at all. >btw he is more sexist, considering how he kept whining about how Saber shouldn't fight..at least Kiritsugu was just against Saber because of her ideals). Literally cant stand that she was a King as a woman. Ep2 of Zero. On the other hand Shirou uses it as an excuse to not let her get bodied again. >Shirou's constant preaching Funny because he is the one getting preached at. He outright disapproves of Archer letting Caster.But sure yeah he is the generic "I wanna save everyone" MC even when he actually tries to kill others Whatever you say. >he is inacapable as a master and only survives constantly via cheap plot armor/luck Exactly like Kiritsugu then. >He never really grows until HF, where as soon as he is tested by a serious situation Except that he does grow in UBW an Fate. Also you realize that you compare an old man with a teenager right?Kiritsugu didnt have his "ideal" till after he was older than Shirou.We clearly see him wanting to save a father and son(probably) that abandon their cover. HF is an extreme situation. UBW and Fate are serious. They werent exactly easy on him and the rest of the characters. >he backs out in favour of "love"..which makes his previous Shounen bullshit even more obnoxious. He doesnt even preach about what you think he does but ok. In fate he outright tells Saber to not sacrifice herself for others and in UBW he knows that he wont be able to save everyone....even tho he already knew that. >And unlike Kiritsugu (who got a tragic ending, fitting for a flawed character) Shirou gets cheesy happy endings in all the routes.. Shirou learned from his mistakes and changed before the end in all 3 routes. Kiritsugu avoided reality and kept chasing a dream like a child till he brought hell on earth, I dont know man, it seems to me that Shirou is miles better than generic edgelord #28454. A flaw isnt positive when a character never deals with fixing it. Kiritsugu is retarded not flawed. >even in HF where he lets tons of innocents die. So Shirou should have kept his ideals? What's your deal man?Is it stupid to try to save others or not? Should he focus on the people he loves or complete strangers? >You will keep bashing F/Z to make F/SN look better while I'll keep calling F/SN trash and F/Z great. Well it's not like analyzing a character and story was ever the forte of a Zero fanboy. And funny how you say that when pretty much all your posts are trashing FSn and prasing Zero in some way. Your kind ignores any flaws Zero and its characters have and trash FSN for doing the same shit(ironic since Zero is a mostly a copy paste of FSN themes and characters) Yeah and Saber whined about him. Their conflict was interesting, especially in the second season when their ideals "clash" (the whole thing with Lancer and his master). I prefer that over the ridiculous Saber/Shirou romance (her falling in love with a dumb highschool boy is some cheap harem level writing) or her being a robot in UBW or her being turned evil in HF. There is much more to Kiritsugu than that and in fact a 30+ year old anti hero MC is very refreshing in anime. Compare that with Shirou, the same old "nice guy" High school MC who has basically a harem and is dragged into some supernatural conflict (jeez where have I seen that before) Not really Shirou preaches to Archer, Rin, Saber, even Kirei etc. his morally superior crap gets old real fast. Kiritsugu was a trained killer, the conveniences in his story (which are there but rare and mostly towards teh end) are more acceptable than in Shioru's where he doesn't know shit and gets "almost" killed repeatedly only to be saved/healed without any problems. Not to mention he gets a ridiculous power up in UBW that puts him at Gilgamesh's level (wtf). So no, not like Kiritsugu. Not in any meaningful way. In Fate he is literally the same and is crazy about his ideals, only sad about Saber. In UBW he says will keep pursuing his ideals even though he knows they aren't achievable so that's very little growth too. Like anyone with a brain would knew that its not possible to save everyone. Both endings don't actually judge Shirou's decisions as wrong (even though they are) and leave things "happy" so Shirou gets his ending with his waifu's. In HF he abandons his ideals ASAP for a girl, leads to tons of innocents dying and still gets everything handed to him. That's "growth" I suppose but makes him more unlikable. The difference is in F/Z there were real consequences, it wasn't made to give the player (F/SN is an eroge after all) waifu's and cheesy happy endings. Kiritsugu is a tragic character, his flaws are not meant to be a positive (and he pays for it, unlike Shirou). Thats so much better than Generic Shounen Harem protagonist #5242 Shirou's ideals of saving everyone were bullshit so he wasn't going to keep them either way in HF. But he decided to let countless innocents die so Sakura is safe (instead of saving as many as possible), that's simply wrong which again would be fine if there were consequences..there aren't and they get a disney happy ending. I have never seen such selfish people rewarded like this and them being portrayed as heroes (the main problem). Your kind ignores any flaws of F/SN (always tons of excuses ready) and considers it to be a masterpiece, so you are not any better here. Copy & paste? How? And even if thats true everything in F/Z was executed better. Why have you rate F/Z so highly if you hate it so much This is just sad. I can't tell if you're just incredibly stupid or are being ignorant on purpose. |
Aardwolf94 said: ssjokg said: >Yeah Kiritsugu was definitely not "obnoxious", even if he did ruthless & bad things. He kept whining about Saber's ways vs his own every time she disapproved of him. No actually he couldnt shut up about that even when Saber wasnt around. >First off he was actually a refreshing character Trigger happy edgy characters arent rare at all. >btw he is more sexist, considering how he kept whining about how Saber shouldn't fight..at least Kiritsugu was just against Saber because of her ideals). Literally cant stand that she was a King as a woman. Ep2 of Zero. On the other hand Shirou uses it as an excuse to not let her get bodied again. >Shirou's constant preaching Funny because he is the one getting preached at. He outright disapproves of Archer letting Caster.But sure yeah he is the generic "I wanna save everyone" MC even when he actually tries to kill others Whatever you say. >he is inacapable as a master and only survives constantly via cheap plot armor/luck Exactly like Kiritsugu then. >He never really grows until HF, where as soon as he is tested by a serious situation Except that he does grow in UBW an Fate. Also you realize that you compare an old man with a teenager right?Kiritsugu didnt have his "ideal" till after he was older than Shirou.We clearly see him wanting to save a father and son(probably) that abandon their cover. HF is an extreme situation. UBW and Fate are serious. They werent exactly easy on him and the rest of the characters. >he backs out in favour of "love"..which makes his previous Shounen bullshit even more obnoxious. He doesnt even preach about what you think he does but ok. In fate he outright tells Saber to not sacrifice herself for others and in UBW he knows that he wont be able to save everyone....even tho he already knew that. >And unlike Kiritsugu (who got a tragic ending, fitting for a flawed character) Shirou gets cheesy happy endings in all the routes.. Shirou learned from his mistakes and changed before the end in all 3 routes. Kiritsugu avoided reality and kept chasing a dream like a child till he brought hell on earth, I dont know man, it seems to me that Shirou is miles better than generic edgelord #28454. A flaw isnt positive when a character never deals with fixing it. Kiritsugu is retarded not flawed. >even in HF where he lets tons of innocents die. So Shirou should have kept his ideals? What's your deal man?Is it stupid to try to save others or not? Should he focus on the people he loves or complete strangers? >You will keep bashing F/Z to make F/SN look better while I'll keep calling F/SN trash and F/Z great. Well it's not like analyzing a character and story was ever the forte of a Zero fanboy. And funny how you say that when pretty much all your posts are trashing FSn and prasing Zero in some way. Your kind ignores any flaws Zero and its characters have and trash FSN for doing the same shit(ironic since Zero is a mostly a copy paste of FSN themes and characters) Yeah and Saber whined about him. Their conflict was interesting, especially in the second season when their ideals "clash" (the whole thing with Lancer and his master). I prefer that over the ridiculous Saber/Shirou romance (her falling in love with a dumb highschool boy is some cheap harem level writing) or her being a robot in UBW or her being turned evil in HF. There is much more to Kiritsugu than that and in fact a 30+ year old anti hero MC is very refreshing in anime. Compare that with Shirou, the same old "nice guy" High school MC who has basically a harem and is dragged into some supernatural conflict (jeez where have I seen that before) Not really Shirou preaches to Archer, Rin, Saber, even Kirei etc. his morally superior crap gets old real fast. Kiritsugu was a trained killer, the conveniences in his story (which are there but rare and mostly towards teh end) are more acceptable than in Shioru's where he doesn't know shit and gets "almost" killed repeatedly only to be saved/healed without any problems. Not to mention he gets a ridiculous power up in UBW that puts him at Gilgamesh's level (wtf). So no, not like Kiritsugu. Not in any meaningful way. In Fate he is literally the same and is crazy about his ideals, only sad about Saber. In UBW he says will keep pursuing his ideals even though he knows they aren't achievable so that's very little growth too. Like anyone with a brain would knew that its not possible to save everyone. Both endings don't actually judge Shirou's decisions as wrong (even though they are) and leave things "happy" so Shirou gets his ending with his waifu's. In HF he abandons his ideals ASAP for a girl, leads to tons of innocents dying and still gets everything handed to him. That's "growth" I suppose but makes him more unlikable. The difference is in F/Z there were real consequences, it wasn't made to give the player (F/SN is an eroge after all) waifu's and cheesy happy endings. Kiritsugu is a tragic character, his flaws are not meant to be a positive (and he pays for it, unlike Shirou). Thats so much better than Generic Shounen Harem protagonist #5242 Shirou's ideals of saving everyone were bullshit so he wasn't going to keep them either way in HF. But he decided to let countless innocents die so Sakura is safe (instead of saving as many as possible), that's simply wrong which again would be fine if there were consequences..there aren't and they get a disney happy ending. I have never seen such selfish people rewarded like this and them being portrayed as heroes (the main problem). Your kind ignores any flaws of F/SN (always tons of excuses ready) and considers it to be a masterpiece, so you are not any better here. Copy & paste? How? And even if thats true everything in F/Z was executed better. Why have you rate F/Z so highly if you hate it so much Implying as if Saber didn't whine about Shirou. Bby... the whole Fate route is literally them arguing with each other over their ideals without realizing that they're basically the same and that their understanding with each other came from a mutual belief of an impossible dream. Damn... y'all really have no idea how Saber and Shirou's relationship works. It's not even as simple as romance lmao. The whole relationship stemmed from something they both share with each other. They're literally parallels of each other. Not at you deflecting here and then at the same time blatantly denying that there's also more to Shirou than what you like to constantly preach. Oh bby... if Zero worked out in chronological order, I can assure you it will also fall into the same "nice guy" dragged into some supernatural conflict that you seem to detest so much. You really have no self-awareness it seems. Except he ain't trying to be morally superior though? He's painfully self-aware of his hypocrisy. He knows there's some truth to all the criticisms he get from other characters in the show. He acknowledges all of that lmao. Except he does know shit about magecraft. Why else would he practice it if he has no knowledge. He didn't know about the war but he knew about magic and he knew about the way of the magus. Bby... the reason why understands Rin in the first place is because he has the knowledge of such concepts. And every single time he gets saved made sense within the context of its universe so not really sure what plot armor bs you're talking about but sure keep denying that. The source of his power is literally the same person. Do you really not realize how in Fate, UBW and HF, Archer is always the one setting him up for improvement. Bby... I ain't discussing that Gil fight here. That has been disproven countless times already and if you're gonna preach the same arguments then god help me. "Put in the same level as Gil" is just blatant ignorance at this point. I'm almost sure your idea of "growth" is turning a full 180 or something which he even did in HF. His growth in all those routes made a whole lot of sense within those situations. There were a lot of context that went to those developments, not just some backstory put randomly in the middle of the season. The only consequence that happened in F/Z was the fire at the end which was already established right at the very beginning of FSN. Everything played out like your typical holy grail war which isn't surprising as F/Z is pretty straightforward with how it handles the war. The big difference here is that the characters in FSN were aware of what they had to do in order to prevent the massive consequence of the war as they should as it's supposed to be the very end of the long-running ritual. Yikes... the same eroge argument. Do you really not have anything else? Sakura is literally in self-atonement. How is she presented as a hero? She's painfully aware of what she's done. The story is completely aware that she did evil things. It's why she's atoning for it in the first place. You really ain't self aware. Zero literally have a less compelling Sakura, a less capable Rin, a more pathetic Shinji, the same themes and the list goes on but I doubt you knew that since you seem so hellbent on denying anything FSN-related. Baby... you're basically just repeating yourself at this point. |
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| ssjokg said: Oh look still the same stuff you posted a hundred posts ago. Sigh. How sad that when even the authors come out and talk about how they wrote some characters in Zero, you still believe that they are well written. Or at least better than their counterparts in FSN. So if you think they are not well written and F/Z is so bad why did you counting them to your favourites and gave both seasons high ratings? lol, seems like you are confused here. I think F/SN fanboys just can't handle how so many people prefer F/Z ("just" a prequel) and think F/SN is inferior in every way. Get over it! I already said this discussion was pointless since your type is stubborn but you & the other mad fans still replied since you got mad at me trashing F/SN and your idol Shirou. |
Aardwolf94 said: Congrats, you just proved that you cant comprehend what others are posting. ssjokg said: Oh look still the same stuff you posted a hundred posts ago. Sigh. How sad that when even the authors come out and talk about how they wrote some characters in Zero, you still believe that they are well written. Or at least better than their counterparts in FSN. So if you think they are not well written and F/Z is so bad why did you counting them to your favourites and gave both seasons high ratings? lol, seems like you are confused here. I think F/SN fanboys just can't handle how so many people prefer F/Z ("just" a prequel). Get over it! |
ssjokg said: Aardwolf94 said: Congrats, you just proved that you cant comprehend what others are posting. So if you think they are not well written and F/Z is so bad why did you counting them to your favourites and gave both seasons high ratings? lol, seems like you are confused here. I think F/SN fanboys just can't handle how so many people prefer F/Z ("just" a prequel). Get over it! All I'm seeing is shitty excuses for F/SN's bad and cliche writing while nitpicking over F/Z and then acting like your questionable opinion is a fact. Typical smug F/SN fanboys And you didn't answer my question, if you dislike F/Z so much why do you have it in your favourites. You seem confused |
Aardwolf94May 27, 2020 1:57 PM
Aardwolf94 said: ssjokg said: Congrats, you just proved that you cant comprehend what others are posting. All I'm seeing is shitty excuses for F/SN's bad and cliche writing while nitpicking over F/Z and then acting like your questionable opinion is a fact. Typical smug F/SN fanboys You could literally flip the shows in that sentence to describe what you're doing lol what a shitty argument. |
 Don't mind me, I'm just reading the comments |
Dieshouri said: Aardwolf94 said: All I'm seeing is shitty excuses for F/SN's bad and cliche writing while nitpicking over F/Z and then acting like your questionable opinion is a fact. Typical smug F/SN fanboys You could literally flip the shows in that sentence to describe what you're doing lol what a shitty argument. Unsurprisingly you (a F/SN fan who got mad and insulted me over my opinion so lets not act like your type has been acting mature) would say that..which was my point from the beginning. We won't agree here anyway so there is no reason to get upset and discuss this. |
Aardwolf94 said: Dieshouri said: You could literally flip the shows in that sentence to describe what you're doing lol what a shitty argument. Unsurprisingly you (a F/SN fan who got mad and insulted me over my opinion so lets not act like your type has been acting mature) would say that..which was my point from the beginning. We won't agree here anyway so there is no reason to get upset and discuss this. I mean from what I've been reading people have just presenting you with facts and examples while you just say "no u I'm right" and present blatantly false info. I'm also not really sure you're in a position to determine who's "upset" when you've been writing in the same way. But yeah there is no point you've proven you won't listen to reason and that you ignore the obvious which is why I'm just enjoying this instead constructing any kind of argument. |
Dieshouri said: Aardwolf94 said: Unsurprisingly you (a F/SN fan who got mad and insulted me over my opinion so lets not act like your type has been acting mature) would say that..which was my point from the beginning. We won't agree here anyway so there is no reason to get upset and discuss this. I mean from what I've been reading people have just presenting you with facts and examples while you just say "no u I'm right" and present blatantly false info. I'm also not really sure you're in a position to determine who's "upset" when you've been writing in the same way. But yeah there is no point you've proven you won't listen to reason and that you ignore the obvious which is why I'm just enjoying this instead constructing any kind of argument. Well of course a rabid F/SN fanboy would think that, no surprise here. Every argument in favour of/praising F/SN is a "fact" while every complaint is "false" and ignoring the obvious..lol. I'm sure someone who dislikes F/SN and prefers F/Z would agree with me. There are reviews here about UBW and even HF mentioning similiar flaws so its not like I'm saying something your type has never heard of. Ok. I'm done here anyway although I'm sure the next time I trash F/SN again a few F/SN fans will get butthurt again. |
Aardwolf94 said: Dieshouri said: I mean from what I've been reading people have just presenting you with facts and examples while you just say "no u I'm right" and present blatantly false info. I'm also not really sure you're in a position to determine who's "upset" when you've been writing in the same way. But yeah there is no point you've proven you won't listen to reason and that you ignore the obvious which is why I'm just enjoying this instead constructing any kind of argument. Well of course a rabid F/SN fanboy would think that, no surprise here. Every argument in favour of/praising F/SN is a "fact" while every complaint is "false" and ignoring the obvious..lol. I'm sure someone who dislikes F/SN and prefers F/Z would agree with me. There are reviews here about UBW and even HF mentioning similiar flaws so its not like I'm saying something your type has never heard of. Ok. I'm done here anyway although I'm sure the next time I trash F/SN again a few F/SN fans will get butthurt again. What lol? I agree with arguments that use examples from both show to form a point and disagree with yours that use literally false information proven wrong with quotes from the show. What even is this argument people who agree with me agree with me? Are you agreeing that you don't care about arguments and proof and just say whatever you agree with lol? OK have fun learn, how to make a proper argument next time, byyyyyye. |
Aardwolf94 said: Dieshouri said: I mean from what I've been reading people have just presenting you with facts and examples while you just say "no u I'm right" and present blatantly false info. I'm also not really sure you're in a position to determine who's "upset" when you've been writing in the same way. But yeah there is no point you've proven you won't listen to reason and that you ignore the obvious which is why I'm just enjoying this instead constructing any kind of argument. Well of course a rabid F/SN fanboy would think that, no surprise here. Every argument in favour of/praising F/SN is a "fact" while every complaint is "false" and ignoring the obvious..lol. I'm sure someone who dislikes F/SN and prefers F/Z would agree with me. There are reviews here about UBW and even HF mentioning similiar flaws so its not like I'm saying something your type has never heard of. Ok. I'm done here anyway although I'm sure the next time I trash F/SN again a few F/SN fans will get butthurt again. Man... you don't even realize you're literally describing yourself except in reverse lmao. And you couldn't even respond anymore cuz u know you were presented with facts you love to deny so much. Please... zerotards taking the L again. |
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Dull_Lull said: Aardwolf94 said: Well of course a rabid F/SN fanboy would think that, no surprise here. Every argument in favour of/praising F/SN is a "fact" while every complaint is "false" and ignoring the obvious..lol. I'm sure someone who dislikes F/SN and prefers F/Z would agree with me. There are reviews here about UBW and even HF mentioning similiar flaws so its not like I'm saying something your type has never heard of. Ok. I'm done here anyway although I'm sure the next time I trash F/SN again a few F/SN fans will get butthurt again. Man... you don't even realize you're literally describing yourself except in reverse lmao. And you couldn't even respond anymore cuz u know you were presented with facts you love to deny so much. Please... zerotards taking the L again. Except it fits you better than me but you are delusional enough to think otherwise despite literally doing everything I described. No I was presented with more bullshit excuses from F/SN tards who can't stop sucking off their beloved Harem protagonist and his cliche dumb story that no one really takes seriously outside of dedicated hardcore fans. |
Aardwolf94 said: Dull_Lull said: Man... you don't even realize you're literally describing yourself except in reverse lmao. And you couldn't even respond anymore cuz u know you were presented with facts you love to deny so much. Please... zerotards taking the L again. Except it fits you better than me but you are delusional enough to think otherwise despite literally doing everything I described. No I was presented with more bullshit excuses from F/SN tards who can't stop sucking off their beloved Harem protagonist and his cliche dumb story that no one really takes seriously outside of dedicated hardcore fans. Awww you're very cute denying yourself like that. It's only bullshit because you refuse it anyway so why do I even care at this point. You've pretty much reiterated literally the same points in the entire thread so I should have expected this from a zerotard. Y'all watched 1 anime and now think you know how shit works in that universe lmao pls |
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| Kiritsugu has a wife and a mistress for no fucking reason but Shirou is the harem protagonist... There are blind people. And then there is you. Shame. |
Dull_Lull said: Aardwolf94 said: Except it fits you better than me but you are delusional enough to think otherwise despite literally doing everything I described. No I was presented with more bullshit excuses from F/SN tards who can't stop sucking off their beloved Harem protagonist and his cliche dumb story that no one really takes seriously outside of dedicated hardcore fans. Awww you're very cute denying yourself like that. It's only bullshit because you refuse it anyway so why do I even care at this point. You've pretty much reiterated literally the same points in the entire thread so I should have expected this from a zerotard. Y'all watched 1 anime and now think you know how shit works in that universe lmao pls No actually I have watched plenty of Fate anime, all trash apart from F/Z. Don't act like this is some complex "universe" in the first place lol. F/SN tards smugness never ends. You are so much smarter than us haters for playing a porn game where you get to fuck your waifu's Great storytelling, very mature! |
| Yeah eating burgers because it reminds you of slaughter is the pinnacle of writing. |
ssjokg said: Kiritsugu has a wife and a mistress for no fucking reason but Shirou is the harem protagonist... There are blind people. And then there is you. Shame. You are the blind one. Shirou literally has three different girls obsessing over him, one of them is fucking King Arthur who experiences "true love" for a high school boy. Kiritsugu having a mistress just so he doesn't get too invested in Irisviel is completely different and again was not portrayed as a healthy relationship in any way. If this was F/SN's harem style of writing you would have Saber obsessing over him, Maya not being a mistress but instead blushing and saying "baka" and he would not be married either. Seems like you haven't seen any harem if you think that F/Z had one Love how F/SN fanboys only defense is bashing F/Z. You are all insecure af about the prequel to your favourite story being better received than the "main" part. |
ssjokg said: Yeah eating burgers because it reminds you of slaughter is the pinnacle of writing. What? Also this is the pinnacle of writing: https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/309/318/dbf.png Truly a masterpiece, there is real nuance here. You are jealous of F/Z's popularity lol. That's why even though you apparently consider it to be good (giving it high ratings + having it in your favourites) you bash it to push F/SN as this good story. Amusing |
Aardwolf94 said: Dull_Lull said: Awww you're very cute denying yourself like that. It's only bullshit because you refuse it anyway so why do I even care at this point. You've pretty much reiterated literally the same points in the entire thread so I should have expected this from a zerotard. Y'all watched 1 anime and now think you know how shit works in that universe lmao pls No actually I have watched plenty of Fate anime, all trash apart from F/Z. Don't act like this is some complex "universe" in the first place lol. F/SN tards smugness never ends. You are so much smarter than us haters for playing a porn game where you get to fuck your waifu's Great storytelling, very mature! Oh baby... if it ain't that complex then you wouldn't be losing hairs over the concepts and stuff that happened in FSN in the first place and yet here we are regurgitating the same arguments that's been done for years already. Self-drag honey... just admit you can't comprehend the writing of a show, I won't hold it on you. Clowning yourself like this ain't cute. |
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Aardwolf94 said: ssjokg said: Kiritsugu has a wife and a mistress for no fucking reason but Shirou is the harem protagonist... There are blind people. And then there is you. Shame. You are the blind one. Shirou literally has three different girls obsessing over him, one of them is fucking King Arthur who experiences "true love" for a high school boy. Kiritsugu having a mistress just so he doesn't get too invested in Irisviel is completely different and again was not portrayed as a healthy relationship in any way. If this was F/SN's harem style of writing you would have Saber obsessing over him, Maya not being a mistress but instead blushing and saying "baka" and he would not be married either. Seems like you haven't seen any harem if you think that F/Z had one Love how F/SN fanboys only defense is bashing F/Z. You are all insecure af about the prequel to your favourite story being better received than the "main" part. Damn... you really just ignored all the context that went into why those girls like him in the first place. I just know... you watched the shows with an already existing mindset because no way someone can be this dumb to not comprehend how relationships work. "For no reason" yeah I can't take you seriously with this one girl. You don't even know how fucking King Arthur fell in love in the first place. It ain't as simple as high school romance baby... did you really watch the show? Whole route literally talks about ideals and here you are yet again oversimplifying shit because you lack basic comprehension skills. Please... Why are you acting like all three girls are obsessing over him in one route anyway? Literally only one girl gets a focus so how the fuck is it a harem? You okay girl? |
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Aardwolf94 said: ssjokg said: Yeah eating burgers because it reminds you of slaughter is the pinnacle of writing. What? Also this is the pinnacle of writing: https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/309/318/dbf.png Truly a masterpiece, there is real nuance here. You are jealous of F/Z's popularity lol. That's why even though you apparently consider it to be good (giving it high ratings + having it in your favourites) you bash it to push F/SN as this good story. Amusing The same old drag... do you not have anything else baby? Cuz a succubus sexually harassing a minor like Kiritsugu is such masterful writing amirite? Good lord... y'all really don't know anything and it shows. Babe... FSN is literally one of the best selling visual novels, BDs, the movies, even character polls for New-Type and most requested servants for FGO and shit... |
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Dull_Lull said: Aardwolf94 said: No actually I have watched plenty of Fate anime, all trash apart from F/Z. Don't act like this is some complex "universe" in the first place lol. F/SN tards smugness never ends. You are so much smarter than us haters for playing a porn game where you get to fuck your waifu's Great storytelling, very mature! Oh baby... if it ain't that complex then you wouldn't be losing hairs over the concepts and stuff that happened in FSN in the first place and yet here we are regurgitating the same arguments that's been done for years already. Self-drag honey... just admit you can't comprehend the writing of a show, I won't hold it on you. Clowning yourself like this ain't cute. Lol imagine thinking a dumb porn game has complex writing that is difficult to comprehend. Maybe watch some actually complex shows before acting smug? Like this is just sad. No one is confused here. Its just clear that F/SN is badly written cliche garbage and inferior to F/Z. You can't handle someone having that opinion (although thankfully many share it) and get butthurt. End of story here. Now this is getting boring so we are done here, I don't have have much time to waste with insecure people (never seen a more salty and insecure fanbase tbh)! You can keep replying when I trash F/SN again because it will definitely happen. |
Aardwolf94May 28, 2020 12:31 AM
Aardwolf94 said: Dull_Lull said: Oh baby... if it ain't that complex then you wouldn't be losing hairs over the concepts and stuff that happened in FSN in the first place and yet here we are regurgitating the same arguments that's been done for years already. Self-drag honey... just admit you can't comprehend the writing of a show, I won't hold it on you. Clowning yourself like this ain't cute. Lol imagine thinking a dumb porn game has complex writing that is difficult to comprehend. Maybe watch some actually complex shows before acting smug? Like this is just sad. No one is confused here. Its just clear that F/SN is badly written garbage and inferior to F/Z. You can't handle someone having that opinion (although many share it) and get butthurt. End of story here. Now this is getting boring so we are done here, I don't have have much time to waste with insecure people! Oh damn... that drag again? Come up with something else baby. If you're just gonna regurgitate the same eroge drag then then might as well just scoot over? Nobody spends 60 hours reading terrible-written h-scenes that aren't even voiced to begin with baby. That shit even got retconned in its remake lmfao but sure keep projecting luv. Lmfaooo the fact that you literally just outed yourself as some pretentious intellectual is pretty amusing ngl. Awwww you're so cute putting up a front like that. I know you don't have anything else to respond with baby that's why you're basically just reiterating the same bs arguments you've been using for god knows how long now. Yeah looking at you spouting the same shit you've been saying for 2 pages now really is boring tbh. |
Dull_LullMay 28, 2020 12:35 AM
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Aardwolf94 said: Dull_Lull said: Oh baby... if it ain't that complex then you wouldn't be losing hairs over the concepts and stuff that happened in FSN in the first place and yet here we are regurgitating the same arguments that's been done for years already. Self-drag honey... just admit you can't comprehend the writing of a show, I won't hold it on you. Clowning yourself like this ain't cute. Lol imagine thinking a dumb porn game has complex writing that is difficult to comprehend. Maybe watch some actually complex shows before acting smug? Like this is just sad. No one is confused here. Its just clear that F/SN is badly written cliche garbage and inferior to F/Z. You can't handle someone having that opinion (although thankfully many share it) and get butthurt. End of story here. Now this is getting boring so we are done here, I don't have have much time to waste with insecure people (never seen a more salty and insecure fanbase tbh)! You can keep replying when I trash F/SN again because it will definitely happen. Someone who rated tower of god higher than Rakugo is trying act like they understand "complex shows" lol |
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