Which flopped harder?

I_Am_Freeballing said:
Manga reader since 2013 here. AOT didn't and will not flop. 11/10 story from start to finish. WOO YEAH BABY!!!

kareemamr said:
Ever since episode 7 i genuinely couldnt view aot the same way ever again.For me i saw a masterpiece getting destroyed as imo aot is one of the greatest shows ever made.I also read the manga yesterday and it just made things worse chapters 133-139 felt like reading a fairytale with the only thing missing is for the final chapter had me so confused and angry and no its not because .

Anyway this poll is just for fun before anyone might want think i am trolling/hating. i am not a hater i absolutely love aot but plot felt off since epi 7 for me i kept delaying watching it cuz i didnt feel the same about and i literally cant even rate this season right now and i wasnt a manga reader until yesterday, so what do you think?

nonofyourbeeswax said:
the fandom probably

LordSozin said:
Ah yes, the defender of AoT, @I_Am_Freeballing, is here to be the annoying prat that he is.

kareemamr said:

well i respect ur opinion but cant agree at all especially for the upcoming part the amount of plot holes incoming and the amount of possibilities and what ifs which will come from it cause of the direction he went with is endless.Also the last panel made me feel that all of this was pointless and the cycle continues..

LordSozin said:
Ah yes, the defender of AoT, @I_Am_Freeballing, is here to be the annoying prat that he is.

official_brown said:

It’s better than most seasons, so idk. It’s just higher than most seasons also. I just think it’s been the most popularized and discussed series and people for the most part are annoyed and tired with the lovers and the haters so it negatively impacts your experience. Especially if this is the first time you are watching on weekly release. Animation has been less stellar because of MAPPA. But from a narrative and philosophical perspective I think AoT has been great. Just people talking about it everyday about the same subject negatively impacts your experience.

Taste is subjective also, so there is that.

kareemamr said:

I absolutely agree manga readers ruined the season before it even started also the fact that aot made anime mainstream its probably the most watched show in the world right now which causes a lot of discussions/hate really did affect my experience but i still cant accept its still a masterpiece/GOAT after these chapters,but i guess i will wait and see when the final final final season drops

I_Am_Freeballing said:

It will be my pleasure to annoy you the rest of the time you spend on the forum of a series you dislike.


I don't think there are any plot holes but you are free to think there are. The cycle continuing is the POINT of the story. It's the best thing about the ending.

FreshSalmon827 said:
What’s GOT? (Character lim)

Goobris said:
Can we chill out with pointless threads like this one, please?

kareemamr said:

game of thrones season 8 one of the greatest flops ever

FreshSalmon827 said:

Oh I’ve never seen that show so I couldn’t comment.

kareemamr said:
Ever since episode 7 i genuinely couldnt view aot the same way ever again.For me i saw a masterpiece getting destroyed as imo aot is one of the greatest shows ever made.I also read the manga yesterday and it just made things worse chapters 133-139 felt like reading a fairytale with the only thing missing is for the final chapter had me so confused and angry and no its not because .

Anyway this poll is just for fun before anyone might want think i am trolling/hating. i am not a hater i absolutely love aot but plot felt off since epi 7 for me i kept delaying watching it cuz i didnt feel the same about and i literally cant even rate this season right now and i wasnt a manga reader until yesterday, so what do you think?

kareemamr said:

GOAT material first 6 seasons it almost dethroned breaking bad.season 8 was so bad that the finale scored 3.4 on imdb.wouldnt recommend watching it as season 8 ruins everything

khalil04uzumaki said:

Comparing it to GOT last season ? Really ?
Aslo the only negative aspect of this season is the incomplete handling of psychological changes and development of Annie and Connie , but anything else is a masterpiece
Now despite everything you said about the ending, where the fuck was the time travel thing ?!!!
There wasn't anything like this or even close to it
I understand that you didn't like the ending but to say it fell off is exaggerating and the last couple of chapters needed more explanation for sure , but overall it still better than GOT's ending by far

FreshSalmon827 said:
I didn’t think breaking bad was that good anyway.

kareemamr said:

1-time travel?
2-if eren could direct dina fritzz back then why did he kill his mother?motivate rumbling in future which actually didnt happen?
3-If he knew bertholt was clossal titan from the 1st episode why didnt he act on it?
4-Whats ymirs goal?she saw herself in mikasa and admired their love story so why did she cause mikasa to kill eren and then she just peaces out
5- pigeons/seagulls is eren a god or what even after he died they are still watching mikasa
6-so if that was erens plan all along then he might have saw it when he kissed historias hand which doesnt make sense cause greisha begged zeke to stop eren.also he was bent on rumbling all of the world and he didnt want to gamble eldians lives in the end he contradicted everything he said
u say the point is the continuity well the cycle could have been broken if rumbling happened in full effect,people would argue that the eldians would still fight cuz its "human nature" but thats simply not possible because eren has the founding power and could literally induce eternal peace(the remaining foreigners wont be able to rebel and they were helping eldians out of their own accord)

SugarCubes said:
are you kidding!? the GOT finale was fucking disgusting, LOL I've never seen production throw away a show the way they did, no anime ending is comparable. It's George R. R. Martins's fault because he's too worried about finishing other bullshit franchises than the GOT books. i was EXTREMELY disappointed by this ending. all that character development and world-building, i genuinely wasted so many years following this adaptation, i can't even be bothered to rewatch it or recommend it to anyone else seeing as how it ended.

I_Am_Freeballing said:

1-What time travel? There is no time travel in this story.

2-He is expressing regret that he didn't. The Japanese (the original) raw has Eren regretting he didn't save his mom when he could have because he was consumed with revenge and hyper focused on the Rumbling.

3-He did not know Bert was the colossal titan since episode 1. What the hell?

4-Umm. Ymir was a slave. Her love for King Fritz is a parallel to Mikasa's love for Eren. Mikasa killing Eren IS what freed Ymir. Mikasa killed the one she loves, ie something Ymir was unable to do (she protected him and chose to suffer 2000 years instead).

5-Eren did not turn into a bird. That is a meme. The birds are simply symbolism for freedom.

6-A lot of people don't understand that Eren's goal and his wishes are not contradictory. He wanted to destroy the whole world. He said so himself again in 139. That doesn't change. He knew he would be stopped and that is different. He didn't WANT to be stopped, he just KNEW he would be.

How does Grisha begging Zeke to stop Eren not make sense? It's not like killing 80% of the population is somehow forgivable in comparison to doing a 100% Rumbling. It's still horrible.

While he wanted do kill everyone outside the walls, he knew that would not get rid of the power of the titans, which was his main goal. When he says ''I will exterminate every single one of them from this world'', he still means titans. What he saw in the future is Mikasa's choice ending the titan curse which is why he moved towards that.

The cycle would not have been broken. Those outside may not hate them cause they will have all died but what would happen then is exactly what Kiyomi said and Floch agreed with. Paradisians will fight each other on the island.

So what if Eren has the Founding Titan? So what if he erased everyone's memories? Did you forget the humanity inside the walls before the basement reveal? Did you forget the Uprising arc? If Eren killed the entire world, he would still have the titan powers, Ymir would still be imprisoned in Paths and he would still die in 4 years. Meaning a whole new inheritor of the Founding Titan who has their own agenda and could fuck shit up. Everyone who believes there would be eternal peace if Eren killed everyone off the island is just delusional.

Xenophon01 said:
Most of the people I know thinks the same, GOT has a weak ending but it's enjoyable during all the seasons except for the last 2 chapters and Breaking Bad it's a snoozefest during the first 3-4 seasons and it haves some mediocre secondary plots in the last two, trying to make anyone to watch BB for first time in 2022 without dropping in the early seasons it's almost impossible nowadays.

kareemamr said:
but i think its funny how

kareemamr said:

1,2,3 i still cant think of any other possible explanation than time travel he wasnt a titan shifter nor had the founding power on that day
4 i dont get this plotline at all to be honest eren wasnt cruel to mikasa as fritz was to ymir mikasa overcame her feelings to kill him but its not the same reasons their stories are not similar
5 no comment tbh
6if he didnt want to be stopped he simply could have forced them to not to stop him
and he could have still ended the titan curse afterwards but without gambling with eldian lives
the uprising arc?it wasnt a civil war it was a corrupt goverment trying to hide the truth now everyone knows the truth and eren could use the founding power to maintain peace and still end the curse

Fuhrer_Wrath said:
First of all, your question automatically assumes that AoT is flopping or will flop which just simply isn't true.

But still to answer your question. GoT season flopped far far worse.

And doesn't have to look farther than the Imdb ratings for these seasons.
The final season of GoT doesn't have a single episode above a rating if 8.(Even though GoT usually always got a rating of 9 and above.)
And some episodes even got a rating as bad as 4.

Compare that with AoT S4P2.
S4P2 has only 2 episodes with a rating less than 9 and 3 episodes with a rating of 9.9.
Hell the last 2 episodes of Season 4 Part 2 have had one the highest rating for any AoT episode with 9.7 and 9.9 respectively.

And season 4 part2 is the 3rd best received season of AoT on Imdb with an average rating of 9.4 behind only S3P2 and S4P1.

So there's your answer I guess.

I_Am_Freeballing said:

123-It works retroactively. He says in 139 that his mind is fucked up since the Founding Titan makes him experience the past, the present and the future at the same time. But don't get this confused. This is only true from the point when he got the full Founding powers, ie start of the Rumbling.

4-It's not that Eren and Fritz are similar. It's that Ymir's and Mikasa's love are both unhealthy.

6-Again that is just not true. If he forced them to not stop him by using the titan powers Ymir would not decide to leave the paths. Eren saw Mikasa doing SOMETHING that ends up freeing Ymir. He wanted that.

''Corrupt government trying to hide the truth''? Yes but wouldn't Eren at the head of Jaegerist military controlling everyone on Paradis be a corrupt government trying to hide the truth as well?

Lets say he kills everyone AND manages to somehow free Ymir himself. How does he control the Paradis populace then? He would not have the powers then. There is no scenario where Eren kills everyone, frees Ymir, and still has the FT to control everyone for peace. Even if that happened, Eren would still die of old age someday and in 500 years (just an example) there is gonna be someone starting shit again. That is exactly what the final pages are portraying.

I_Am_Freeballing said:

123-It works retroactively. He says in 139 that his mind is fucked up since the Founding Titan makes him experience the past, the present and the future at the same time. But don't get this confused. This is only true from the point when he got the full Founding powers, ie start of the Rumbling.

4-It's not that Eren and Fritz are similar. It's that Ymir's and Mikasa's love are both unhealthy.

6-Again that is just not true. If he forced them to not stop him by using the titan powers Ymir would not decide to leave the paths. Eren saw Mikasa doing SOMETHING that ends up freeing Ymir. He wanted that.

''Corrupt government trying to hide the truth''? Yes but wouldn't Eren at the head of Jaegerist military controlling everyone on Paradis be a corrupt government trying to hide the truth as well?

Lets say he kills everyone AND manages to somehow free Ymir himself. How does he control the Paradis populace then? He would not have the powers then. There is no scenario where Eren kills everyone, frees Ymir, and still has the FT to control everyone for peace. Even if that happened, Eren would still die of old age someday and in 500 years (just an example) there is gonna be someone starting shit again. That is exactly what the final pages are portraying.

Yogen-No-Ko said:
I personally think AoT was nigh perfect up until volume 30 of the manga (volumes 31-34 were kinda meh) and about episode 5 of S4P2. I think the last stretch of the story kinda dropped the ball for me personally. That being said I can't help but still give the series a 9/10 rating simply because it was so damn good before those last 4 volumes.

kareemamr said:

ngl u are giving a solid pov but i still cant agree to every single point u stated and i didnt like the direction of the story due to plot holes and illogical events/choices

Sanjii_1234 said:
damn bro
You nailed it, makes sense why they call you protector of aot, like really you gave some very good points.

kareemamr said:

Keep in mind thats my personal opinion i dont want to trigger you.Anyway i totally agree with u this part is still one of the best and still 10/10 but for me that only keeps up till epi7, now the majority of my friends disagree just like u only some of them agree with me.so yeah i am saying ( in my opinion) after finishing the manga too that it might flop hard as u can see how the ending caused chaos in the manga community now imagine it on a much wider worldwide scale

FreshSalmon827 said:
What’s GOT? (Character lim)

I_Am_Freeballing said:

You do you my man. You can dislike the direction the story went in but I will always defend the ending when people say there are plotholes and illogical events. That is just a hard disagree from me. It is just incredibly nuanced and people go with the most shallow interpretation most of the time.


I'm always willing to have a discussion. It's just tiring when I see people hate the ending and give reasons that merely come from misunderstanding. Like, of course you hated the ending when you didn't understand the story in the first place. I roll my eyes whenever I see people saying Eren's character is ruined. No, his character is extremely consistent. He is just not MEANT to be portrayed as someone who succeeds in the end, a hero, someone cool or badass. The POINT of his character is someone tragic, broken, depressed, a mentally exhausted failure. Just because he didn't turn out to be a chad mastermind in the end does not make him a bad character. It's the opposite, what we end up with is an extremely human character that only gained more complexity and layers with the final chapter.

Fuhrer_Wrath said:


Oh I have no problem with you not liking AoTs end. That's your opinion.

You think AoTs end didn't work. That's your subjective opinion. I think AoT's end did work. That's my subjective opinion. There's nothing to argue about between us.

My only problem was that when you said AoT flopped. It felt like you were implying that AoT failed at it's reception towards it's audience.(Which is what flopped means).
I was simply showing atleast up until now AoT is fairly well received by audiences.


As for how the ending will be received among the anime onlies. I think the ending won't be nearly as divisive because of a few reasons.

1. A big reason for the division between the Manga readers was that a large portion of them supported Eren and the Yeagerists. That already does not seem to be the case for Anime Onlies.
A lot of the anime onlies already support the Alliance over Eren. As can be seen from the reception of the episode "Retrospective". So I honestly don't see them having too much of a problem when the Alliance wins.

2. Adaptation. If Mappa adapts the last chapters well, with great animation and direction, emotional OSTs and great voice acting, then it might6make it easier for people to swallow whatever problem they might have with the writing.

3. Time. The manga chapters had way too much time between them.. Leading people to speculate and theorize a lot. Anime Onlies won't have that.

4. Extra pages. I don't know if you were around the Manga community at the time or not. But the reception of the last chapter was not nearly as problematic before the extra pages as it was after the extra pages.
Anyone one who was on the fence turned negative side. And even people who liked the ending lowered their rating. So if the extra pages are not adapted. And I think they won't. It will automatically make the reception better.

5. And finally. Even though a lot of people might disagree with this take. But in the AoT is a Shonen show. And a large portion of it's target demographic are people who watch other shonen shows.
And these people want AoT to have some kind of a positive ending. And the manga ending(without the extra pages) delivers that.

BetaMaleUltra said:
At the very least AOT can still be watched and somewhat enjoyed despite it all. GOT on the other hand just became rather messy. There still was some really good stuff particularly in season 6, but as far as I'm concerned, it being a masterpiece ended with season 4

kareemamr said:

This sounds plausible actually. i didnt read the manga up until last week so i didnt know about the presence of all these factors, and i really hope it still goes down as a masterpiece/goat when part 3 drops