Chi. Chikyuu no Undou ni Tsuite Episode 25 Discussion

@The_Spectre_01 i hate stories that make waste my time and that spit in the face of 99% of the plot for the sake of a bullshit ending.

why do we watch the suffering and the transformation of the characters in the anime?? They make the book to be so important and In the end it does not even matter...

You can say that life is like that and i agree, but if you are gonna waste my time and energy, tell me before. I imagine the people that watch it weekly, i feel for them

@peidogrande1904 The idea was to connect historical fiction with actual history. If the book wasn't lost then the Albert and Copernicus stuff wouldn't exist. At least Draka's letter made it, so their effort wasn't in vain.

@peidogrande1904 The idea was to connect historical fiction with actual history. If the book wasn't lost then the Albert and Copernicus stuff wouldn't exist. At least Draka's letter made it, so their effort wasn't in vain.

@The_Spectre_01 Yeah, he accidentally overheard a conversation between two passersby who, very conveniently, were loudly discussing that letter at exactly that time and place. Albert could’ve just as easily been pulling buns out of the oven at a bakery and had a random epiphany about the movement of galaxies. What the author meant to say is clear, but the issue is that it was done way too clumsily.

@The_Spectre_01 What's funny is that the letter's content was completely meaningless, and the fact that the characters were obsessed with it, even dying to deliver it, can only be called cringe. Imagine, while fleeing the Inquisition, everyone’s worrying about dividends for some random guy who might’ve been dead for a quarter of a century. And considering that if he showed up at a printing house or church with that scribble, they’d just kick him out—or worse, hand him over to the inquisitors for ties to heretics.

@OrigamistToo Except it wasn't meaningless, cuz the title of the book in the letter, "On the Movements of the Earth" was what made him write a commentary on an astronomy textbook which Copernicus learned from. It seems you don't even know the meaning of the word "cringe". That's what happens when people use words they know nothing about cuz it's popular. Who's worrying about Potocki's share of the profit when they were certain they would publish the book, and even if they didn't, Draka would've convinced Antoni to do so?
Except the authority of the church was starting to dwindle. People already had issues with the church orthodoxy, and that was a chance to act.
Who's "he" in your comment exactly? Considering the bishop at that time was corrupt (Antoni), they didn't have to worry about getting handed over to the inquistors. The Heretic Liberation front believed Draka could do her part, and the plan would've been a success if not for Nowak.

@The_Spectre_01
So, it turns out the plan was to send a random letter about dividends to a random place, hoping that a random person on the street would find out about it and do something with it? I’ve already said that, from the perspective of common sense, this action looks like complete nonsense. The fact that Copernicus learned about it in the plot is purely the author’s whim at that moment, as they say, stretching an owl on a globe. The characters could just as well have thrown a bottle with a message into the ocean while being in Poland with no access to the ocean, and it would still somehow find Albert, because where fate (author) reigns, common sense is useless. In general, whenever the author wanted to make a plot twist, the logic in the series vanished. When the author wanted to add symbolism for the sake of symbolism they came up with that scene on the bridge or with crowd of beggars.

If you find this realistic, well, what can I say, keep living in your world of magic. Though maybe you’re one of those people who cried their eyes out over the Copernicus name-drop in that slideshow from the final episode.

@OrigamistToo Wrong. The real aim was to publish the book, but since they were cornered by the inquisition, they put their hopes on Draka convincing Antoni to publish it instead but their plan was foiled by Nowak. During Draka's dying moments, she decided to do the only thing she could do, which was sending the letter to Potocki's address along with the title of the book if it were to be published. From the perspective of common sense, it's perfectly normal. Only nonsense cuz you didn't really understand the show you watched.
What you're saying rn is a bunch of nothing burgers. Totally irrelevant to this conversation. That bridge scene was the only thing in the show that didn't make total sense and it wasn't for the sake of symbolism anyway. There's literally no issue with the crowd of beggars. That's a you problem.
Yes, it's realistic and is objectively one of the most realistic anime out there. You can keep being in denial about it tho.
Who the hell would cry to that sort of thing? It wasn't even meant to be emotional. Not even sure what your point is atp.

@The_Spectre_01 "From the perspective of common sense, it's perfectly normal."

From the perspective of common sense, it’s far more logical to fight for your life and try to escape a confrontation with the inquisitors, or at the very least, not wait for them from evening until "a couple of hours before dawn," as Schmidt said. Honestly, the characters here completely lack any survival instinct, which is why, instead of calling for guards to protect themselves from Nowak, they’re running around with pigeons in cages.

"Yes, it's realistic and is objectively one of the most realistic anime out there."

Lol, what’s there to talk about then? If this is the pinnacle of realism, I must be talking to someone who hasn’t left their basement in 15 years and has been chatting with a sock on their hand the whole time.

"It wasn't for the sake of symbolism anyway."

Lol, there’s literally a guy hanging on by his fingers clutching a book, rambling about fate for two whole minutes, and after that, some outright acrobatic miracles happen just to leave Okchi with the necklace. NO SYMBOLISM WHATSOEVER.

"Who the hell would cry to that sort of thing?"

You’d be surprised what people on this forum get emotional about.

@OrigamistToo Except these guys were prepared to die for the cause long before Frei betrayed them, and they had no where to run to, cuz the inquisitors would find them, due to the nature of the landscape. That's literally why Frei killed the horses.
Yeah, let's forget that Nowak didn't come alone. Still no point from you.
Love how you have zero rebuttal so you begin throwing insults around like a child. If you can't handle losing maturely then don't engage in arguments or discussions.
I'm talking about the collapse of the bridge, not the conversation that happened. Yes, the conversation symbolizes passing the torch.

@The_Spectre_01 Except these guys were prepared to die" — being ready doesn’t mean they have to drop dead instantly. By the way, the traitor thing was super realistic too, when he somehow managed to quietly kill six horses on the street, and then, probably through telepathy, very realistically tipped off the inquisition’s white ops team. The fact that they spotted the chase at sunset, but it reached them “a couple of hours before dawn”? Totally realistic, and of course, a great reason for everyone to die for some gypsy they’re all seeing for the first time. If they’re so perceptive they can spot a chase seven hours before it arrives, how did they miss one guy slaughtering all their horses? Must be that realism.

Novak showed up at the Antonio church alone.

Heck, even without the conversation, everything on the bridge is pure symbolism for the sake of symbolism. The mercenary had to die from a 2–3 meter fall into water, or else there’d be no symbolism. The bridge had to collapse out of nowhere, without any actions from the characters, despite those giant vines weaving through it. And of course, the death of a character who leaves behind only a heretical book and a heretic’s necklace.

So, the last two episodes is on alternate timeline?
I have to say I really don't like this "alternate timeline" idea.
Kinda ruined the ending for me.

@OrigamistToo None of them "dropped dead instantly" lol. Yes, Frei's betrayal was realistic considering his past.
"Horses on the street". What are you even yapping about? The horses were close by and it was Frei's turn to guard the horses when he killed them.
Next time watch the show with your eyes. Frei reported the liberation front in town when ordered by Schmidt (and two other people) to see if there was any way to get lead in town. Draka then used her coins instead (obviously wasn't enough). Frei could've reported them even without this. He could've just made up an excuse to go to town and report them anyway.
Yeah, after the liberation front were battling the other inquisitors. Good job leaving that out.
The Bridge collapsing wasn't symbolism of any kind. It was just an old bridge.
Didn't know that bridges collapsed in hours/days MB lol. Vines weaving through the bridges is a sign that it's weak and old asf anyway.
Bunch of nothing burgers per usual.

@The_Spectre_01 Here's the translation into English:
"None of them 'dropped dead instantly.' The issue isn’t that they literally 'dropped dead instantly,' but that for this author, it was inevitable. In general, the characters here, as soon as they finish their lines or actions in the plot, love to die in the most idiotic way possible, just so they don’t get in the way of the story anymore. It’s like the gypsy uncle, who died literally by accident because another dead guy, while falling, somehow slashed his throat with a sword.
'Frei reported the liberation front in town when ordered by Schmidt (and two other people) to see if there was any way to get lead in town.' Lol, rewatch that moment—he didn’t go anywhere. What’s the point of going to get lead when they have a whole box of broken lead type just lying around? They could’ve melted it down. And if their money in this world is also made of lead, lol, then why go to town to exchange it for lead? Realism. And how could he have gone anywhere if he was guarding the horses? The horses were literally tied up in the open, hitched to the main building—there was no separate stable. Horses are very loud animals, and there’s no way to deal with them quietly and quickly on your own.
Lol, a guy falls off a bridge, another one holds him not by the hand but by a book with his fingers, then grabs him by the necklace around his neck with his foot. The guy falls, and the second one is left holding both the book and the necklace. Absolutely no symbolism. Bunch of nothing burgers per usual.
Keep it up.

@OrigamistToo So, your issue is that characters die way too quickly? You realized that at the ending of the show? Lol. "Idiotic way possible": (Lists the death of an NPC no one knew about). None of the main or supporting cast died an idiotic death so your comment doesn't make sense.
You can literally tell by the shape of his head that Frei was among the 3 people sent to go find lead in town.
Schmidt said they were going to print as much as they can so why would the lead type be enough?
Draka was the only one willing to sacrifice her coins so she could see the publishing start sooner. It's not like lead was expensive then. A coin would be able to buy more lead than the former would produce if melted.
It's possible to kill them all swiftly without making them making noises that would seem suspicious and Frei was ready to die if he was found out anyway.
Yeah, let's act like Oczy was a weak man and not a duelist.
I was talking about the bridge collapsing, not the conversation. Is this what is called selective reading?

@The_Spectre_01
“You realized that at the end of the show?” Nice strawman, keep making stuff up for me.
“Lists the death of an NPC no one knew about” Well, if we were watching a black comedy with idiotic situations and characters who don’t find anything weird about it, I wouldn’t mind. Oh wait, that’s exactly what this is, lol. Speaking of dumb deaths, there’s Rafal’s example from episode 3, where he’s like, “I can just tell the court I renounced my beliefs, they’ll let me go, and I can secretly keep pushing heliocentrism. Nah, scratch that, let me incriminate myself for no damn reason, hoping the contents of a chest left in the woods for ten years don’t rot, and some fanatic magically finds it by spotting a 2cm star on a rock in the forest at night.”
“You can literally tell by the shape of his head that Frei was among the three sent to find lead in town.” In the very next scene, he’s chatting with Schmidt, and then we get the betrayal bit. They only needed the lead for the printing press type, and the gypsy woman handed them lead coins right away, which, by the way, didn’t stop her from bribing the guard at the city gate later, lmao.
“A coin would be able to buy more lead than the former would produce if melted.” While we’re on the topic of lead coins, they literally never existed in European history, let alone were valued as something precious to show a character’s “transformation.” Imagine making coins out of a heavy, toxic metal that bends in your pocket—such a genius idea to toss them into the plot, and super convenient for the writer that it just happened to work out that way.
“It’s possible to kill them all swiftly without making them make noises.” Sure, if the story’s about super stealthy ninjas. Otherwise, it’s another “trust me, bro” moment.
“Yeah, let’s act like Oczy was a weak man and not a duelist.” Duelist or bodybuilder, you’re not holding a 70kg person with your fingertips in that grip. The other mercenary was hanging in the exact same grip, by the way. Oczy wasn’t exactly an acrobat either, so there’s no explaining his lightning-fast 180-degree flip in midair. Realism 🌚 The thread around his neck holding a person’s weight? Peak realism right there. I’m talking about the whole bridge scene, and you’re cherry-picking one thing and sitting there with your pants full of joy.

@OrigamistToo Nice strawman". More like you don't have a proper rebuttal, but I'll accept your concession on that part.
Orb isn't a comedy show. If that's a joke, then it's a bad one cuz it didn't land. Rafal made a wrong decision for his future and he even acknowledged that. Rafal might be a prodigy, but he's always acted dumb since the second episode. We've actually seen him do some pretty weird stuff like wearing Hubert's necklace out in the open, keeping Hubert's research materials when his last wish was for someone to get rid of it, or not burning his research materials properly, so that behavior doesn't seem out of place, no matter how drastic it was.
What are you even yapping about? They were sent to look for a place to acquire lead in the morning/afternoon. Frei killed the horses and fought Schmidt in the evening.
Schmidt said they would make as much as they could. Your reply doesn't even address that. Keep nitpicking.
Who cares if lead coins never existed in European history? This is historical fiction, meaning not everything is based on actual history. Melted coins can theoretically be used for movable type.
Horse would make noises, but if they're killed swiftly, it doesn't come off as suspicious, and it doesn't really matter since Frei was ready to die if he was caught. You're unintentionally admitting that Orb is realistic lol. Either it is or it isn't. Pick your poison.
Except it isn't impossible. People with impressive grip strength can pull it off.
What "flip" are you talking about? Yes, realism.
Again, not impossible. Extremely unlikely, but not impossible. My only nitpick in the entire show is Gras being able to cut that rope with one hand, bu they weren't exactly average civilians to begin with.
And i wasn't talking about the conversation but the bridge collapsing. You're the one trying to force things into my mouth with half-assed nitpicks.

@The_Spectre_01 "More like you don't have a proper rebuttal." Lol, as if I’d respond to some random phrase you made up for me. Brilliant plan!

"Orb isn't a comedy show." Well, that’s a matter of perception. I was cracking up with my buddies almost every episode until it just got boring. It’s such a dark comedy that tries way too hard to look like a serious show.

"They were sent to look for a place to acquire lead in the morning/afternoon." Why did they even need more lead if they’d already restored the type and started printing the book? Why get extra lead when they could just remelt the broken type? They somehow had a forging blank, didn’t they? Basically, they sent them to the city just to set up the betrayal moment, and in the very next scene, three seconds later, the traitor character is chatting with the one who sent him, as if he never left. It’s like the writer wanted to throw in a betrayal, did it with a single line, and then quickly wrapped it up so it wouldn’t linger.

"Who cares if lead coins never existed in European history?" Oh, wait, I thought this was a super realistic show, and now it’s suddenly not important? Oh, how convenient...

"Horse would make noises, but if they're killed swiftly, it doesn't come off as suspicious." If you think a horse is like a motorcycle or a car, then sure, you’re fine. Except no living creature would just stand there calmly if another of its kind was just killed right in front of it, and they were literally standing a meter apart.

"You're unintentionally admitting that Orb is realistic lol." Making stuff up for me again, nice one. Soon I won’t even need to be in this convo—you’ll just invent someone else and argue with yourself.

"Except it isn't impossible. People with impressive grip strength can pull it off." Yeah, sure, if the book was indestructible and the necklace cord was made of steel cable.

"What 'flip' are you talking about? Yes, realism." Alright, maybe I was wrong, and The_Spectre_01 is just a JoJo’s Bizarre Adventure character who mastered Hamon and, through breathing exercises, surpassed human physical limits a hundredfold and sees nothing unrealistic in it. Or, more likely, he’s just a guy living in a world of pink ponies and Hollywood clichés but doesn’t want to admit it, so he spouts nonsense with a smug look. The second option seems way more probable.

"Again, not impossible. Extremely unlikely, but not impossible." When three "extremely unlikely" things happen in a row, their probabilities multiply, and it becomes completely unbelievable. So, just because someone’s a mercenary, they suddenly have the strength and agility of Spider-Man? Realism :-)
Bunch of nothing burgers, as usual.

@OrigamistToo Yeah, cuz characters dying left and right in Orb was made up by me. Silly response, terrible deflection.
Can't even ragebait properly LMAO. It's not a matter of perspective in this case. Orb is objectively not a comedy show, and doesn't try to take itself seriously cus it's serious right from the start. "Until it just got boring". Yeah, and you ended up finishing that "boring" show and keep hanging around threads of its episodic discussion.
"Why would they need more lead?" Yeah atp it's best to not take you seriously. You'll start getting half-assed responses since you clearly can't read, or you just ignore what's stated in the show in the silliest way possible. Schmidt literally said "We'll print/publish as much as we can". Yeah, love how you keep deflecting. Now that's it's obvious the time frames were different, you've created another nitpick that didn't exist. It's best you stick to shows in which you can turn your brain off cuz it seems this show's too much for you to handle. I feel like I'm talking to a toddler atp.
LMAO. Orb is historical fiction, meaning not everything follows actual history(Orb is basically 0.2% historically accurate). Nothing I said contradicts it being realistic.
"Stand there calmly". The horses were tied lol. Frei just has to stab them at the right place and they're all dead.
Yes, you're basically confused. Your stance is that Orb isn't realistic, but when it does something unrealistic in your opinion, you suddenly have a problem with it, meaning deep down you think it's realistic but you're in denial.
That book looked tough enough to withstand that easily and a rope being that strong isn't impossible lol. Try again.
So, you couldn't identify who performed a 180° flip in Orb? As expected. Creating made-up scenarios in your head just to get shut down immediately. This conversation initially started with your claim of 24-25 being an alternate timeline which was immediately debunked and you've been deflecting ever since. A whole bunch of nothing burgers per usual.

@The_Spectre_01 "Yeah, cuz characters dying left and right in Orb was made up by me." Where did you even get that from? Literally none of the messages in this discussion led to that. Imagination running wild?

"Orb is objectively not a comedy show." The whole charm of its comedic effect lies in how it’s so serious it makes your teeth grind. The mix of a heavy dose of historical nonsense, implausible situations, character behavior, and the attempt to squeeze tears out of the viewer on top of that had me bursting with laughter. If the esteemed author wants drama, they should at least read a high school history textbook first and avoid slapping together blatantly obvious nonsense.

"Until it just got boring." Well, there was still hope for some fun. It did pop up here and there, though starting from episode 17, some episodes were just flat-out pointless. Plus, my friends enjoyed reading my comments on it.

"Schmidt literally said 'We'll print/publish as much as we can.'" So, it turns out they still had to go to the city, and that whole gypsy transformation scene was pointless for the plot? Alright then.

"Nothing I said contradicts it being realistic." Next time three events with a 0.01% chance of success happen in a row, I’ll just tell everyone it’s historical fiction at work. A person holds another grown man by gripping a book that the second guy is clinging to while falling off a bridge, and they hang there chatting for a few minutes. The second guy lets go of the book, and Okchi manages to do a 180° flip in mid-air in half a second, grab him by the necklace rope with his foot, and hold onto some thick vine with his hand that easily supports two grown men falling, and they hang there talking for another minute and a half. The cord doesn’t even break—the guy just decides he’s done holding on to life. So that’s what realism looks like, and nothing unusual happened.

"'Stand there calmly.' The horses were tied lol." Yeah, horses clearly can’t make sounds. And the whole squad of white-clad special forces was obviously singing loudly and dancing a Maori dance at the time, so they didn’t hear a thing.

"Yes, you're basically confused." What’s this attempt at philosophizing? You say you don’t like something, so that means you actually like it? Flawless logic.

"That book looked tough enough to withstand that easily and a rope being that strong isn't impossible lol." It's strange to talk about realism with a man in whose world a book cover can endure the weight of an adult in a fall. Maybe you live on the moon with some other gravity? Well, what can I say? You’ve probably never held a book in your hands. As for the rope, I can suggest a little experiment—try breaking a rope with your hand. Though maybe in the basement where you’ve been sitting for the last 15 years, they don’t have those. A whole bunch of nothing burgers per usual.

@OrigamistToo I got that from your half-assed replies.
Keep contradicting yourself lol. "Heavy dose of historical nonsense". From a show that was made to be historically inaccurate. Smooth brain comment. First it's a comedy show, now it makes your teeth grind, then you began bursting with laughter. I thought you were "laughing" while watching the show? Pretentious much? You really need to read a book about historical fiction before telling others to read about anything.
"Attempt to squeeze tears out of the viewer". Guess it worked since many people were emotional while watching Orb, while you're just part of the loud minority and you're triggered by that fact. "It did pop up here and there". Oh, really? So, you decided to watch a boring show for 24 weeks because of that? Lol, as if your lies couldn't be more obvious.
What gypsy scene lol? Draka wanted the publishing to start sooner, so she sacrificed her coins. No rebuttal again. Alright, then.
When a show portrays things that aren't impossible to pull off, it's realistic. None of the above scenarios you mentioned had a 0% chance of happening, so your ramblings are basically pointless. Easily spotted one or two lies such as Oczy performing a 180 flip, or the vine "easily" supporting Gras and Oczy when it was literally showing signs of snapping.
If Frei killed them swiftly by stabbing them in vital areas they wouldn't make sounds that would be suspicious, and EVEN if Frei was caught, he was prepared to die anyway.
I don't expect you to understand something like that anyway. Not surprised.
A book cover that looks that tough absolutely can. Talking about someone holding books when you can't even read to save your life is hilarious.
My only complaint was with Gras snapping the rope with one hand, at least I have actual complaints, not made-up scenarios that amount to nothing. "A bunch of nothing burgers per usual" sums up your entire comment right from the alternate universe theory after being swiftly debunked. Must be triggered so bad that you keep repeating it lol.

@The_Spectre_01 "First it's a comedy show, now it makes your teeth grind." Looks like a translation error— the phrase was “The plot is serious to the point of gnashing teeth”

"You really need to read a book about historical fiction before telling others to read about anything." I wonder if, in other historical fiction, all the characters also die exactly when the author gets tired of them. Do book covers there withstand dynamic loads of 1000–2000 N? Are all the horses mute and couldn’t care less when someone gets killed a meter away from them?

"Guess it worked since many people were emotional while watching Orb, while you're just part of the loud minority and you're triggered by that fact." Well, plenty of people consider Solo Leveling or Fullmetal Alchemist the best anime ever—great reason to trust them blindly.

"Oh, really? So, you decided to watch a boring show for 24 weeks because of that? Lol, as if your lies couldn't be more obvious." Laughter is completely subjective. You can’t possibly know how my buddies and I were cracking up all those weeks. For example, a heretic, just released from prison and supposedly repentant, lunges at his escort with a knife and starts blackmailing him, dragging him into his heretical schemes. Did he already miss prison that much? What’s stopping the guy from running off and snitching? And where’d he get the knife—did the jailers gift it to him as a loyal customer bonus?
You sit there watching these events that raise a ton of “why?” questions, discuss them, and have a laugh.

Another gem from mid-season:
“When will they get here?”
“In five minutes.”
“Alright, burn this book and head to the tunnel.”
“Got it!” leaves, comes back, didn’t burn the book “Hold on, I have a question.”
(They drop everything and have a leisurely five-minute philosophical conversation.)
(Insert mandatory pathos about truth and going to hell; the author reminds us yet again that in his story, everyone’s a saint and definitely not a heretic, each believing in God to the point of obsession.)
(Nobody shows up.)
“Alright, I’m off!” teleports to the road in front of the inquisitors’ wagon, somehow far from the barn.

"When a show portrays things that aren't impossible to pull off, it's realistic." Lol, so your bar for realism is just as low as it gets. No wonder then. By that logic, they could’ve added a squirrel that spells out “heliocentrism” with nuts on Albert’s windowsill, and he’d have an epiphany. Clearly not impossible, so super realistic :-)

"Easily spotted one or two lies such as Oczy performing a 180 flip." He was literally head-down, holding your indestructible book for two minutes. A couple of frames later, he’s feet-down, grabbing the necklace with his foot. Totally not a flip, definitely something realistic.

"Or the vine 'easily' supporting Gras and Oczy when it was literally showing signs of snapping." Which didn’t stop them from hanging there, chatting about the fate of humanity or whatever they were babbling about. Oh, that vine—holding 150 kg of two men falling but making sure to creak for dramatic effect.

"If Frei killed them swiftly by stabbing them." So, he basically acted like a super-ninja from your beloved Naruto. The horses decided to stay silent and do nothing—oh well, they’re just being killed. What’s that? Not impossible, so realistic. What else to expect from such a realism enthusiast.

"EVEN if Frei was caught, he was prepared to die anyway." By the way, another gem from the Japanese author. A guy who showed zero signs of wanting to die before this suddenly, after betraying everyone and killing the horses, goes to chat with Schmidt, who kills him. There was clearly some grand plan there, not just the author cooking up more idiocy and bending everything to fit it. “He was prepared”—well, if so, let him not fight for his life at all. What’s that? Not impossible, so realistic.

"A book cover that looks that tough absolutely can." Source: “Trust me, bro.” Ask any neural network what it thinks about that.

"Gras snapping the rope with one hand, at least I have actual complaints." Weird, since snapping a necklace with one hand isn’t impossible. I thought you were all about realism for anything not impossible. So, you lied to me, and your universal excuse only works when it suits you? Wow, how convenient.

"Alternate universe theory after being swiftly debunked." And it was debunked because you decided that Rafal from arc 4, who looks, talks, has the same voice actor, and the exact same personality as Rafal from arc 1, who died 35 years ago, is a completely different character? I can’t trust your definition of realism anymore, but this looks like just an excuse. Something like, “Well, I wanted it that way, so I’m right.”

A bunch of nothing burgers per usual.

@OrigamistToo Why the gnashing of teeth if it's a "comedy show"? Seems you've finally acknowledged you're part of the minority on that part.
Historical fiction means part history and part fiction, and Orb is barely historically accurate, and was meant to be that way. Irl, book with tough covers cab withstand that much. Even a 5 year old knows this much, so how does that have to do with your meaningless nitpicks?
Zero proof the horses were mute, and more of they were swiftly killed, they made no noises that would arouse suspicion. That, or they found out late (Lewandowski came out after Schmidt killed Frei).
Even among Solo Leveling fans, I've barely seen them labelling it "the best anime ever". As for Full Metal Alchemist, it's definitely arguable. A 10/10 anime no doubt, and majority consider it as the best anime ever. "Great reason to trust them blindly". So people should trust you blindly instead?
"Laughter is subjective". Orb is objectively not a comedy anime. Anyone that laughs when watching Orb, a show with only one moment that can be considered funny (the Inquisitor that fell on his sword) for 25 episodes probably inhaled laughing gas while doing so. It seems that's what you and your "imaginary friends" were doing anyway.
Ah, yes. Trying to further deviate from the topic as usual. Funny how this discussion started from your headcanon of alternate timeline being debunked so you keep deflection cuz you can't accept your L.
Ah, yes. Let's act like prisoners don't get stuff such as knives in irl and in realistic movies despite being guarded by the police. Let's also act like Hubert can't just claim Rafal's accusations were false if he reported him. It's not like anyone had a smartphone to record him anyway, but your hate boner prevents you from using whatever braincells you have left.
So suddenly, cinematic time are at a 1:1 with real life, right? Not that it matters, since you made this up anyway. Badeni and Oczy has two conversations, one before and after Oczy spotted the inquisition. The first took longer time than the latter. The second was just Oczy telling Badeni to write his letter and escape and he'll buy him some time.
Squirrels can't form letters. If they could, then it's not unrealistic. Braindead comment, and if that was meant to be a joke, it's a terrible one.
He was holding Gras with one of his legs on the side of the bridge, when Gras left his book, he just released the leg that was on said bridge. That's not a 180° flip in anyway. Nice try.
You were the one who claimed the vine easily supported Gras and Oczy, now that you've been debunked for 150th time, you've deflected again, to "creaking for dramatic effects", when the vine was shown to be tearing little by little. The amount of lies in your comments are astonishing.
What stops Frei from killing the horses fast enough that they don't start making loud sounds continuously? Nothing.
Ah, yes. Frei, the character who's backstory no one knew till his death. After his backstory, everything made perfect sense. But I understand, you were too dumb to realize it anyway.
You're the one with "trust me bro" as a source, cuz nothing implies a book with a tough cover like that can't withstand that force. If you don't have proof of it being 100% invisible then keep holding those Ls.
Gras did that with two fingers iirc, and I never said it was impossible, I just had a problem with it, and right after that I made a statement similar to "it's not like they were average civilians anyway". Learn what the meaning of a lie is. A consistent liar talking about lies LMAO.
Decided? Lol. The show decided that, but you're too slow to comprehend the fact that the age of Rafal and Rafal 2.0 doesn't add up if they were the same person, and nothing suggests an alternate timeline. Must be retarded to think letters travel to alternate universes. The show wanted it that way, meanwhile your entire stance on this anime so far is "I hate it, so it's bad".
A bunch of nothing burgers per usual. Come back when you have actual complaints instead of made-up scenarios.

@The_Spectre_01 "Why the gnashing of teeth if it's a 'comedy show'?" It’s a figure of speech in my language, as I already explained in my previous message.

"Irl, book with tough covers can withstand that much. Even a 5 year old knows this much." Is this like in Hollywood movies where a Bible in a breast pocket stops a bullet? Is that your idea of reality? In real life, a fifteen-year-old kid could tear such a book apart with their hands, let alone it holding a grown adult during a fall. So, you’re just feeding me baseless nonsense with a straight face again—keep it up.

"Zero proof the horses were mute." Zero proof that the traitor was a ninja with lightning-fast attacks who could instantly kill all the horses before they made a sound. Have you ever even seen horses in real life? Or do you just think they’re some kind of giant meat bicycle?

"So people should trust you blindly instead?" Why would they? I’m just sharing my opinion online, and for some reason, you’ve been arguing with it for three days straight.

"'Laughter is subjective.'" Exactly—the excessive seriousness without a single joke in 25 episodes is what adds the extra comedic charm. The fact that, due to your limited imagination, you can’t fathom someone else finding it funny is your problem alone.

"Alternate timeline being debunked." Where? More bla-bla without any proof, keep going.

"Let's also act like Hubert can't just claim Rafal's accusations." And of course, the Inquisition would believe a heretic over a kid who says, 'This guy showed me his heliocentrism,' especially when barely one and a half peasants in all of Europe knew that word back then. All it takes is a denunciation—the traitor in arc 3 didn’t need 1080p photos and videos to be believed.

"Squirrels can't form letters." Of course they can’t; the squirrel just happened to arrange the nuts that way by chance. Is that impossible? If it’s not impossible, then it’s realistic by your logic. Though you later contradicted yourself in the same message.

"When the vine was shown to be tearing little by little." That vine was creaking through their entire three-minute dialogue, and it didn’t affect anything in the end. After all that, Oczy, with his hands occupied by the book and the necklace, somehow ended up back on the bridge, as if he turned on levitation at the right moment.

"What stops Frei from killing the horses fast enough that they don't start making loud sounds continuously?" And what stopped the horses from whinnying loudly after one of them was killed with a sword? Nothing. What stopped a 500-kg horse carcass from making a sound when it fell? Nothing. The author just decided to toss logic out the window, hoping some fools would defend it.

"After his backstory, everything made perfect sense." His backstory: his father was killed by his own brother, the end. A brilliant reason to live to 35, betray your friends, and go off to kill yourself like an idiot. A 5+ explanation, perfectly clear. Since they showed this little scene, now everything makes sense and is 100% realistic and logical.

"You're the one with 'trust me bro' as a source." Okay, here’s a response from a neural network since you’re too lazy to check:
**Is it possible for a situation where an adult weighing 70–80 kg falls off a bridge holding a book, and another person grabs the book and manages to hold both the book and the person?**
**Neural Network Response (Translated):**
Let’s break down the physical feasibility of such a situation.
- **Weight of the Person**: An adult weighing 70–80 kg exerts a gravitational force of approximately 686–784 N (weight = mass × gravitational acceleration, where g ≈ 9.8 m/s²).
- **Holding Force**: To hold a falling person by the book, the second person must exert a force equal to or greater than the falling person’s weight (686–784 N), plus account for the dynamic load from the jerk, which can multiply this force (e.g., 2–3 times, depending on the speed of the fall and the abruptness of the stop). This means the holding person must withstand a load of 1000–2000 N or more.
- **Book as the Point of Force Application**: The book must withstand this immense load without tearing or slipping out of the hands. Most books (standard paper editions) are not designed for such forces. Even a thick hardcover book typically has paper and binding strength not exceeding a few dozen newtons. The book would likely tear or slip.
- **Grip Strength of the Holder**: The person holding the book must have exceptional grip strength and physical conditioning to support a 70–80 kg weight plus the jerk. The average person can grip with a force of about 300–500 N with one hand, while highly trained individuals (e.g., climbers) might reach 700–1000 N. However, sustaining a dynamic load of 1000–2000 N with one hand is practically impossible, even for professional athletes.
- **Stability of the Holder**: The holding person must be anchored or have sufficient weight and traction to avoid being pulled over by the falling person. If they are standing on the edge of the bridge without being secured, their own weight (say, 70–80 kg) may not be enough to resist the jerk.
- **Realism of the Scenario**: In real life, the book would likely not withstand such a load and would tear almost instantly. Even if we imagine an unusually strong book (e.g., made of special materials), the physical capabilities of the holding person still make the scenario highly improbable. Holding a falling person by a book with one hand is practically impossible due to limitations in grip strength and dynamic load.
**Conclusion**:
Such a situation is theoretically possible only under extremely unlikely conditions:
- The book has anomalous strength (e.g., it’s not a regular book but an object made of ultra-strong material).
- The holding person has extraordinary strength and grip (on the level of a professional athlete or higher).
- The holding person is securely anchored to avoid being pulled over.
- The fall was very brief, with minimal jerk (e.g., the person had just begun to fall).
In real life, with an ordinary book and average people, this is practically impossible—the book would tear, and the holding person would not be able to withstand the load.

"I just had a problem with it." Well, there you go contradicting yourself again. Out of all the highly improbable things that happened in that scene, that’s probably the most ordinary thing that could’ve occurred. What’s unusual is that the little cord could hold a person at all. I can send you a wall of text from a neural network on that topic too.

"'It’s not like they were average civilians anyway.'" How much stronger than an average person is a mercenary, in your opinion? Since he’s a mercenary, can he probably jump three meters up from a standstill and lift a horse with one hand?

"Age of Rafal and Rafal 2.0 doesn't add up." So what? It’s been 35 years since the first arc. They just had him born later in this timeline, that’s all. But of course, you have to invent that the exact copy of a character killed 35 years ago is a completely different person, otherwise it doesn’t look as pretty.

"Letters travel to alternate universes." That’s the most standard and common trope in stories with parallel realities. In multiverse plots, they’re constantly crossing over. And here, on Draka’s dying wish, “Let us succeed,” the universe (author) made a happy ending, spawning extra timelines for it.

"The show wanted it that way, meanwhile your entire stance on this anime so far is 'I hate it, so it's bad.'" Well, I’m just saying the author is a lazy, talentless hack who can’t build a plot and doesn’t know basic things (like how one person can’t dig a multi-kilometer tunnel in a 'couple of months’ timeskip,' lol), so I have a blast watching his attempts at drama. Maybe it works on some kids who haven’t left their basement in the past year, but people who’ve dealt with the real world know that’s not how it works.
A bunch of nothing burgers per usual.

@OrigamistToo More like you tried to hard to be different it came out as an obvious lie. No figure or speech whatsoever. You explained nothing lol.
Said a whole lot of nothing. Love how you have zero rebuttal whatsoever. Keep it up.
Characters skilled in swordfighting such as Oczy can dodge arrows with minimal effort and could dodge said arrows while running, so there's proof. Blud thought he was into something.
Like wrong opinions do not exist lol. You shared your "opinion" that was proven wrong, and you couldn't accept it, so you kept replying to me and deflecting from the point of the discussion for some reason.
LMAO. Excessive seriousness does not make any fictional show funny. "Laughter is subjective", and Orb is objectively not a comedic anime, so you can save your lies for someone retarded enough to believe them.
You're so dumb that you don't even read your own comments. Oczy didn't even hold up 1000N and what makes your nonsensical attempt even worse is that Oczy was gripping a vine with the other hand which would lessen the weight of the hand he used in holding up Gras.
Nothing implies the book would tear lol. The book has a tough cover, and even by your headcanon, it's not even entirely improbable.
So, it's possible? Got it. Bunch of nothing burgers per usual. Another L for you.
It's exceedingly for difficult for Gras to cut a rope that durable with two fingers. That's not ordinary at all, but I guess you don't have the intelligence to comprehend that anyway.
Given Oczy's performance against the inquisition? Yes, they're a cut above a normal civilian. Your hyperboles are irrelevant.
Then prove it's a different timeline. Go on. Let's see what nonsensical headcanons you'll cook up next, since apparently, letters from a bird can travel to alternate universes and timelines in a show without superpowers and supernatural abilities.
No one asked for "tropes" lol. Show actual proof that it's a timeline. Same way I presented proof of the events of the anime taking place in the same timeline. Aside from Rafal, we also have the former inquisitor who became a priest and Potocki's address.
Well, you failed horribly in trying to prove the author was a "hack", as the manga not only won multiple awards, but it also considered a masterpiece by many. You must be so accustomed to trash that watching a high quality anime feels unreal, so you have to make up scenarios in your head in a desperate attempt to paint the anime as mediocre as a form of self validation.
Now that the regurgitated nonsense you keep spouting have been thoroughly debunked. Let's get to the main point of this discussion. No more deflections from you. This was the whole reason for the argument. Prove that EP 24-25 was an alternate timeline.

@The_Spectre_01 So, here you are again, sitting there with a smug look like all my arguments just vanished into thin air? You completely ignored everything I wrote, including the physics from the neural network, and now you’re acting like some kind of victor, lol. Looks like your tactic is to close your eyes, plug your ears, and scream, “You didn’t prove it, I win!” Pure classic.

Let’s start with the book. You keep harping on about how a “tough cover” can handle 1000–2000 N, even though the neural network clearly laid it out: a regular book tears instantly, and Oczy physically couldn’t hold that weight with one hand, even if he were a Mr. Olympia-level bodybuilder. And no, the vine doesn’t save the day—Oczy was holding it with his other hand while pulling Gras with the book in the first. There’s no “weight reduction” here; physics doesn’t lie. How does magically dodging crossbow bolts even relate to finger grip strength? But of course, with your smug face, you’ll just breeze past this and say, “It’s possible, so it’s realistic.” So smart, so genius, keep it up.

About the horses—you seriously think Frey, who’s no Naruto ninja, could slaughter them all so fast that not one whinnied or crashed to the ground with a thud? Horses aren’t motorcycles; they panic, they scream, they fall. But you, with your smug look, claim “impossible hasn’t been proven,” ignoring biology. Where’s the proof Frey’s some super-assassin? Oh, right, “trust me, bro.”

On the comedy thing—I’ve explained multiple times: the absurd seriousness and script idiocy are what make it hilarious. It’s subjective, but you’re foaming at the mouth, shouting that Orb isn’t a comedy, like your taste is the ultimate truth. Can’t wrap your head around someone laughing at pompous nonsense? That’s your problem, not mine. But of course, you’ll skip this and just yell “lie, lie, lie.”

On the alternate timeline—you even reading what I write? I explained: the author deliberately made the ending vague so folks like you could argue till you’re blue in the face. Rafal from arc 4 is an exact copy of Rafal from arc 1: looks, voice actor, personality, but you smugly declare “different person” because the age doesn’t line up. Okay, so why can’t Potocki’s street and the priest (oh, surprise, same voice actor, but here you don’t ignore that metric and claim it’s the same guy) exist in another reality? Where’s your “debunking”? You just scream “prove it,” ignoring that the lack of proof cuts both ways—the author didn’t give a clear answer. But you’ll smugly decide you’ve “debunked” me, lol.

On Gras’s rope—you admitted it’s “exceedingly difficult” to cut it with two fingers, yet you keep defending other unreal scenes like the book and necklace. Where’s the logic? Oh right, your “realism” only kicks in when it suits you. Oczy’s “not an ordinary civilian,” sure, but does that give him Hulk strength? Maybe he’s moving bridges with telekinesis too?

On the manga and “masterpiece”—awards don’t make the anime flawless, and I’m criticizing it for its blunders, like the multi-kilometer tunnel from a barn to a city church that one guy dug in a couple of months (lol, you ignored that too). If you love swallowing pompous nonsense without question, fine, but don’t act all smug like it’s “high art.” People who know how the real world works spot these holes from a mile away.

You just skip everything inconvenient and smugly yell “prove it.” I give you physics, biology, script absurdity—you reply with “take another L.” Feels like talking to a brick wall. A bunch of nothing burgers, as usual. Come back when you learn to engage with someone else’s points instead of baselessly shouting “I won” into the void.

@OrigamistToo You mean your completely made up "physics" that resulted in the same conclusion (not impossible but highly unlikely), yeah it's a good thing I ignored that nonsense and I'll do the same for anything else that isn't the main point of this discussion, but I'll make an exception for this tunnel stuff.
Where is the exact size of the tunnel stated? Let's start from there. I've looked all around for the tunnel size, and I can't find any.
Barely any anime is flawless. People had issues with anime like AOT, FMAB, Code Geass and Monster but it doesn't stop them from being masterpieces. Your stance on Orb isn't even that it isn't "flawless", it's that it's bad.
Blah blah blah. All that yapping and still couldn't prove your made-up alternate timeline/universe theory. Come back when you actually can.

@The_Spectre_01 So, you’ve ducked into the bushes again, acting like the entire discussion you stirred up just vanished? I’m talking physics, biology, script nonsense, and you, with a smug face, keep parroting “bla-bla-bla” and pretending you’ve won. Just as I predicted: a human brick wall, no matter what you say, he’ll croak, “You didn’t prove it, I win.” Classic. But let’s go again, for the especially gifted, and run through all the topics you conveniently ignored.
You seriously called me a physics inventor? Wow, genius move! The neural network laid it out clear: a book can’t handle 1000–2000 N, and Oczy can’t hold Gras’s weight (70–80 kg + jerk) with one hand. But since you’re such a fan of “not impossible means realistic,” let’s calculate, just for you, how feasible it is to hold someone by a book with fingertips for 2 minutes:
My request:

Is it possible to hold a person this way for 2 minutes while talking?

Response:

Holding a 70–80 kg person by a book for two minutes while talking is practically impossible for these reasons:

Physical strain:
Holding 70–80 kg (plus potential inertia from a fall) puts immense strain on the arm, shoulder, and back muscles. Even a trained person would struggle to hold such weight for more than a few seconds without gear (e.g., straps or a brace). After 10–20 seconds, muscles tire, and by a minute, the grip weakens due to lactic acid buildup and energy depletion.
The book:
The book would almost certainly tear or slip under such a load, as noted earlier. Even if it’s super sturdy, the falling person’s fingers couldn’t grip it for two minutes under their body weight.
Talking during this:
The holder would be under extreme physical strain, making normal breathing and speech difficult. Talking requires breath control, and in such a stressful situation, they’d be focused on effort, not coherent speech.
The person hanging on the book would also be in panic or intense strain, making conversation nearly impossible. They’d be fighting to hold on or find footing, not chatting.
Biomechanics and stability:
The holder needs an incredibly stable position to avoid being pulled down. Even if anchored, holding 70–80 kg for two minutes requires strength comparable to elite athletes in extreme conditions.
The book must be gripped tightly to withstand constant load without deforming or slipping, which is unrealistic for a regular object.
Conclusion:
Holding a person by a book for two minutes while talking is impossible from the perspective of physics, physiology, and realism. Even in ideal conditions (a sturdy book, superhuman strength, stable footing), the holder’s muscles would give out first, and the book or grip would fail.

By the way, since you love my “not impossible” conclusion so much, why does the analogy with the squirrel arranging nuts bug you so much? Or here’s another one: Albert walks out of a bakery, drops his bag, and the buns accidentally form the Sagittarius constellation, so he goes, “Oh, heliocentrism is true!” That’s not impossible, right? By your logic—pure realism.

You completely ignored the horses; guess it’s not so convenient to cling to your ninja-Frey with lightning-fast attacks (how did he, with such skills, manage to lose to Schmidt’s table knife, lol) and horses that don’t make a sound when the author wants. On the comedy being in the eye of the beholder, I can explain for the fourth time—maybe then you’ll pull your head out of the sand.

Let me break down the tunnel for you. In episode 10, Badeni tells Oczy, “Also, start digging a tunnel from the barn to the city church,” and hands him a shovel. On shots of the barn, the city’s nowhere in sight—not on the horizon, nowhere. Later, we learn the tunnel’s done in a “few months” timeskip, and they plan to escape through it from the Inquisition, coming from that same city. The Inquisition chases them on horseback—5 minutes at full speed. A horse at a gallop covers 3–4 km in 5 minutes, minimum. So, the tunnel’s about that long. And one guy with a shovel digs 3–4 km in a couple of months, unnoticed by the Inquisition, which in the plot is basically psychic? Seriously? Where do you put tons of dirt? The noise, the collapses, the time? It’s like me deciding to dig a subway from my house to work over the summer—sounds super realistic.

“Barely any anime is flawless.” No anime is flawless. Orb just stands out with its constant plot holes that shine like a neon billboard, yet everyone misses them because characters quote Aristotle and stare melancholically at the stars. TLike in episode 6, when Oczy, being illiterate, reads in a diary how to observe stars, instantly figures it out, despite his psychological trauma with “eyes in the sky” that stopped him from looking up before, and the next morning returns the diary to Badeni with observation notes, all while he only starts learning to read closer to episodes 10–11. Not only can a modern person with knowledge of astronomy not figure out how to observe mercury himself, but here we have an illiterate mercenary who has been afraid to look at the sky since childhood and does everything well. Everyone ignored that because the anime had pretty drawn eyes in the sky.

“Still couldn't prove your made-up alternate timeline/universe theory.” Want me to send you what I sent last time again? Ugh, talking to a brick wall. You send him stuff, and he’s like, “I didn’t see anything, so I’m right, and you lost.” Logic of a 5-year-old. If you’re sick with something that stops you from reading a short text, well, get better. But if you just have reading issues, I can suggest getting out of the basement and starting elementary school.

A bunch of nothing burgers per usual.

@OrigamistToo "Let's go again". LMAO. Coping so hard cuz you were utterly destroyed in this argument? Save your headcanons for someone willing to listen. Funny enough you showed zero proof of the size of the tunnel, as expected. Dunno why I'm addressing this but I'll make this the final exception. Basically, after this comment, my only reply will be about proof of your alternate timeline/universe ending which you obviously can't prove, so you choose the coward's way out by deflecting, but I'm
not gonna play that game with you.
Being unable to read and write typically means a person has significant difficulty in understanding written text, recognize words, or comprehend written information. But if course, you don't have enough braincells to comprehend that fact lol. Stick to watching animes with basic plots instead of throwing a fit when you can't grasp basic stuff. Bunch of meaningless ramblings as expected. The rest are just you making up headcanons of what didn't even happen lol, such as "Oczy talking normally" when he never did that till he used his leg in holding Gras, or how you intentionally forgot that Oczy was holding a vine on one hand when holding the book, or how by your logic so you cuz claimed "this is impossible" and thought you were onto something lol. Too bad that's not the case. Sword fighters in Orb should be on the same level as ordinary civilians when that's obviously not the case, so you create a plothole of Schmidt blocking Frei's sword with a knife (and supported it with his other hand)when he's obviously the strongest fighter out of Frei and Lewandowski.
So, still couldn't prove your alternate timeline/universe theory. Must be why you keep yapping about stuff other than this. Basically deflecting like a coward. A bunch of nothing burgers per usual. Keep holding those Ls.

@The_Spectre_01 Ugh, more “bla-bla-bla” and “take an L”? Sitting there with a smug look, while completely dodging the whole discussion you stirred up. Physics? Ignored. Kevlar books. “Realism.” A 3–4 km tunnel that Oczy dug with a shovel in “a couple of months” without any supports, and the mountains of dirt just vanished into thin air like in Minecraft? “You’re all lying.” Oczy, who could barely read the word “Earth,” but easily figured out a technical text on stargazing, found Mercury, ignored a 20-year trauma that haunted him, and even wrote calculations in a diary? “Proves nothing.” Horses go silent at the author’s whim, and biology doesn’t apply? “Realistic since Frey was ready to die,” lol. Frey, despite his ninja skills and lightning-fast attacks, loses to a kitchen knife. “Very realistic.” Brick wall in action, just as I said.

Want me to suggest you reread what I wrote above about timelines? The author deliberately made the ending vague, and there’s just as much evidence for any theory as for your 5-year-old’s theory of “Rafal’s a different person because I say so, hehe.” Where’s your proof then? Oh, right, there isn’t any. Prove something, genius kid. A bunch of nothing burgers per usual.

Either way, thanks for the fun chat; 5 minutes spent writing this comment weren’t wasted. Now I know what kind of creatures roam the internet.

@OrigamistToo Love you how you literally had zero proof of the size of the tunnel lol. Weren't you the one who made the retarded claim that Oczy couldn't read so being able to do otherwise was a plothole when being unable to read typically means having difficulty in reading stuff? You: Oczy can't read. You again: Oczy could barely read. Ok lol.
Oh, would you look at that. Still zero proof to support your alternate timeline/universe theory. Just brilliant. This just shows why you kept deflecting this whole time. It's because you have no proof, while I gave you you actual proof such as Rafal 2.0 having an entirely different ideology and behavior than Rafal(killed Albert's Dad), and his age doesn't even add up if we ASSUME he is Rafal. We have Draka's letter, Potocki's address and the priest who was an inquisitor.
Either way thanks for absolutely nothing. Time spent writing all my comments weren't wasted tho, cuz now I know people without braincells do exist.

@The_Spectre_01 "Zero proof of the size of the tunnel." What proof do you want? The anime literally says, "Dig a tunnel to the church," shows a frame where Oczy stands upright digging it with a shovel, and then, "Run through the tunnel!" Am I supposed to come up with an explanation for the author, some underage Minecraft fan?

"Oczy couldn't read." In the next episode, he literally asked Jolenta, "What’s it like to be able to read?" If he "just reads poorly," why’s he asking questions like that? By your logic, struggling to read five letters, "Earth," means he "can read"? The bar’s at "not impossible, therefore realistic," too bad you don’t even believe it yourself and just hypocritically cherry-pick when it suits you.

"Still zero proof." Teach a blind man to read. I’ll offer again to reread my previous messages.

"I gave you actual proof such as Rafal 2.0 having an entirely different ideology." So, you’re saying a person growing up and acting differently in completely different circumstances is proof, and that proves something to you? Are you one of those who think Rafal from the first arc, being 12 years old, showed some kind of mercy, as if he had the chance to wipe out the entire Inquisition? All your "proof" neither refutes nor confirms anything. Go ahead, prove your theory, come up with more facts for the author, please. A bunch of nothing burgers per usual.

Well, I love chatting with strangers on the internet. Even if those strangers can’t handle basic logic and just parrot, “You lost, you lost,” like a broken record.

@OrigamistToo "What proof do you want?". A statement from the anime about the size of the tunnel. We both know you have none anyway.
Who said Oczy could read? Not knowing how to read≠Not being able to read anything at all. Know the difference, smooth brain.
Yes, it's proof, and there are other proof as well so your theory is objectively wrong even if you gaslight yourself into thinking Rafal 2.0 is the real Rafal. Rafal had the opportunity to kill Nowak in EP 3 but didn't. Rafal 2.0 would've done it seeing as he literally killed someone on screen. You're yapping about proof instead of giving yours by now because you have none. "Come up with more facts for the author". Stating what the author added in his own show is a fact, not made up. Nice cope. Exactly what happens when someone knows they're wrong, but can't bring themselves to admit it. Seems like I'm arguing with a toddler. This is getting boring 🥱. No actual rebuttal from you. Just the same regurgitated verbal diarrhoea. Bunch of nothing burgers per usual.
I love chatting with strangers, not retarded strangers, and I'm sure everyone feels the same.

@The_Spectre_01 "We both know you have none anyway." Dude, you really can’t read, can you? Are you suggesting I make up a quote for the author? I can only work with what’s given in the show. Or did you want Oczy to step out and say, “I dug a tunnel full height, two meters wide, without a single support, to the church in the city, which is 3–4 km away, here’s your construction estimate, sign here”? What’s happening just shows the author isn’t familiar with such things and just throws them into the plot like digging a tunnel is a piece of cake. What else do you expect from a 22-year-old Minecraft fan?

"Who said Oczy could read?" So you’ve got not only reading problems but memory issues too? You literally claimed that in your last comment, smooth brain.

"Yes, it's proof." Yeah, “my proofs are very proofy and smart, and yours aren’t proofs at all, I won’t even look at them,” peak 5-year-old logic in action.

"Rafal had the opportunity to kill Nowak in EP 3 but didn't." He’s such a rational guy, clearly knew it wouldn’t gain him anything, sitting in prison before execution. The fact that the kid managed to smuggle poison into prison is already peak schizophrenia. They hadn’t invented searches back then? Did he have enough poison for himself and the inquisitor too? Give me proof of that, or catch your L again. The fact that our incredible psychic inquisitor, who’s so perceptive he can pinpoint heretics after a one-minute chat with another inquisitor, walks into the prison, sees two glasses on the table, and starts drinking from them—that’s a straight-up genius move worthy of this author’s pen.

"Stating what the author added in his own show is a fact, not made up." That statement contradicts itself, but whatever. The author wrote that horses don’t make sounds, so it’s true and a realistic fact. The author wrote that a 3 km tunnel is dug by one person in a couple of months, so it’s true and a fact. Though even physics is lying to you, what can you expect, you probably live on the moon.

And here’s our basement dweller dodging all questions again, ignoring everything inconvenient, sitting there with a smug look and full pants—nothing new happened.

No actual rebuttal from you. Just the same regurgitated verbal diarrhea. A bunch of nothing burgers per usual.

@OrigamistToo So, again. No proof?. Ok lol.
Bunch of verbal diarrhoea. Zero rebuttal to my comment.
What "proofs" should I look at when they literally don't exist? Go cry about your inability to answer simple questions somewhere else.
Why is blud jumping towards another made-up "plothole" when he fails to answer my questions? This is peak deflection right here. Wasn't it literally stated that prisoners are allowed to drink a night before their torture? Wasn't it actually shown that Rafal (a 12 year old kid) was the one who gave Nowak the drink? Wasn't it also shown a day before Rafal was imprisoned that he had a hunch that something would happen which is why he wrote his letter? What suggests he didn't take any poppy seeds back then? Absolutely nothing. After all, poppy seeds are doing jack shit to help a prisoner, much less a kid.
Not even gonna respond to these again. Just the alternate timeline/universe theory and that's it. Go play that game with someone else lol.
And here we have it. No rebuttal, or even a mention of the alternate timeline/universe theory. I knew it. All your nonsensical ramblings have just been a copout cuz you can't admit your defeat. Must be pretty embarrassing to be unable to prove something you claim to be right, so you keep moving to other unrelated matters. Bunch of nothing burgers per usual. Prove your theory, or keep holding that L.

@The_Spectre_01 "What 'proofs' should I look at when they literally don't exist?" Oh, how come you’re calling me out for the exact same thing, smooth brain, but when it’s about you, you start crying? Boo-hoo. I see no proof from your side, another L for you.

"Wasn't it literally stated that prisoners are allowed to drink a night before their torture?" Prove that, by the way, or it’s just more baseless nonsense from you. Meanwhile, I’ll ask the neural network how this poison works:

A plot point in an anime is discussed where a character dilutes poppy seeds in water and manages to poison themselves to a lethal outcome. Is this realistic?

The anime plot where a character dies from poisoning by water mixed with poppy seeds is unrealistic from a scientific perspective. Here’s why:

Toxicity of poppy seeds: Poppy seeds contain only trace amounts of opiates (morphine, codeine) if not properly refined. A lethal outcome requires an extremely high dose of opiates—hundreds of milligrams of morphine for an adult (depending on body weight and tolerance). Even unrefined seeds have such low levels of these substances (typically less than 1–10 µg/g of morphine) that achieving a lethal dose would require consuming kilograms of seeds or their infusion. This is practically impossible.

Infusion in water: If seeds are soaked in water, some opiates may be extracted, especially in hot water or with prolonged soaking. However, the concentration would still be too low for a lethal effect. Studies show that even in “poppy seed tea” (an infusion of large amounts of unrefined seeds), opiate levels rarely exceed doses causing mild drowsiness or euphoria in sensitive individuals.

Volume and feasibility: To achieve a lethal dose from a poppy seed infusion, the character would need to drink an enormous volume of liquid (tens of liters of highly concentrated infusion) or use an unrealistic amount of seeds. This is not only physically challenging but would require specialized processing (e.g., multiple extractions), which goes beyond simple “diluting in water.”

Symptoms and timing: Opiate poisoning typically causes gradual symptoms: drowsiness, respiratory depression, loss of consciousness. A lethal outcome occurs over hours, not instantly, and in real life, there’s often time for medical intervention. If the anime shows a quick death, it adds to the unrealistic nature.

Alternative poisons: If the plot implies that the poppy seeds were “specially processed” or mixed with another poison, this could explain the lethal outcome. But poppy seeds alone, even as an infusion, cannot cause such an effect.

Conclusion: The scene where a character dies from a poppy seed infusion is not realistic. A lethal outcome would require an unrealistic amount of seeds, complex extraction, or another toxic substance. This is artistic fiction using poppy seeds as a dramatic element, not based on scientific facts.

Oops, turns out the author made up another “fact” that gets debunked with five minutes of Googling. Why didn’t Rafal just choke on a pea to spite the inquisitors?

"Wasn't it actually shown that Rafal (a 12 year old kid) was the one who gave Nowak the drink?" Doesn’t change the fact that drinking something from a condemned prisoner’s hands is peak idiocy. But by your standards, that’s probably peak realism, just like silent horses, multi-kilometer tunnels, and characters who can’t read but somehow read technical descriptions and keep notes. Realism genius in action.

"Wasn't it also shown a day before Rafal was imprisoned that he had a hunch that something would happen which is why he wrote his letter?" How does a hunch relate to him incriminating himself in court to the point of being sentenced to death? “I have a hunch I’ll do something tomorrow.” The letter plays zero role; it was just put in a chest, read ten years later, and thrown out right after. The question isn’t whether he took the seeds or not, it’s that they weren’t found on him. Dude carries a sack of poppy seeds for fun, the all-seeing inquisitors know it’s “poison” but do nothing about it.

"And here we have it. No rebuttal, or even a mention of the alternate timeline/universe theory." I can suggest for the fifth time to reread my comment above, but maybe it’ll only sink in for you, basement dweller, on the sixth or seventh try, and you’ll keep parroting your Ls until your keyboard breaks. “You didn’t prove anything because I just didn’t read what you wrote, boo-hoo.” A bunch of nothing burgers per usual.

@OrigamistToo What is blud even yapping about? Unlike you I provide actual proof while you just create headcanons per usual. Too bad I can't hold an L cuz you're literally an L magnet.
"Baseless nonsense from you". Good thing it's stated by Nowak. Keep embarrassing yourself even further.
1.)That wasn't even water.
2.) According to Rafal, poppy seeds when ingested with poison makes you die a painless death.
Conclusion: You said a whole lot of nothing as usual.
Yeah, drinking from a 12 year old kid who had to lie to escape torture earlier would poison him and then what? Kill the other inquitors and the guards in a fight? Oh wait, he can't! "Multi kilometer tunnel". Me: Asks for the size of the tunnel. Origamist Too: "Idk but it's definitely a multi kilometer tunnel, trust me bro". Same thing goes for your claims about Oczy being unable to read when he was shown reading the word "Earth" at the end of episode 3. "Silent horses". No proof the horses were silent btw.
The inquisitors took a 12 yr old straight out of bed and dumped him in a cell, of course he'd be holding something dangerous like poison or a weapon. Good thinking there, except for the fact that this was Rafal's first time being caught, so it was torture at worst. Second time was death. No one expected Rafal would bring poppy seeds and poison, and Nowak doesn't even know what they're used for in the first place lol. Now that I think about it, the wine may be the poison and the poppy seeds made him die without pain. After all, wine in certain quantities is dangerous for children.
Now that this charade is over... Where's your proof of your alternate timeline/universe theory? Do you have any? Of course you don't, so you have to keep this argument going by straying farther from the point of this discussion, cuz you're afraid of admitting you lost a long time ago.
Ah, another round of regurgitated verbal diarrhoea. Well, since you have no proof, you can keep holding those Ls.
Reread what comment? You mean your headcanon of an ending that got contradicted by the show itself?. Don't make me laugh.
Still waiting for your non-existent proof tho.

@The_Spectre_01 "Actual proof" lol, is your proof in the room with you right now? "My theory is correct because Rafal from the last arc can’t be Rafal from the first arc, because I said so." That’s when you wrote that him being an exact copy of the previous Rafal—name, appearance, seiyuu voice, identical personality—is just a random coincidence. Then you also wrote that since Leo’s character has the same seiyuu as that shadowed-faced priest, it’s 100% proof they’re the same person, lol. I read your comments again and laugh my ass off.

"Asks for the size of the tunnel." Dude keeps reading only what he wants. There’s a rundown barn, they’re ordered to build a tunnel to the city, it’s stated the tunnel is finished, the Inquisition rides horses at full speed from that city for 5 minutes, a horse at full speed covers 3–4 km in 5 minutes. But I wrote all this four messages ago, and "Lord L" forgot it all again and keeps asking the same thing, looks like he really has memory issues.

"When he was shown reading the word 'Earth.'" Wait, didn’t you say two comments ago that he couldn’t read, and now you’re saying he can read because he managed to read one five-letter word in 10 seconds? How high is your bar for literacy anyway? Like, read "Dog" and you’re already literate? If that’s how you were taught, it all makes sense. Probably where "not impossible means realistic" came from too.

"No proof the horses were silent btw." Then why didn’t anyone care or notice? So they were neighing so loudly that the other eight heavily armed white-clad soldiers got scared and decided not to go anywhere? Sounds like a plot hole.

"The inquisitors took a 12 yr old straight out of bed and dumped him in a cell, of course he'd be holding something dangerous like poison or a weapon." So what, searches haven’t been invented yet? How do you imagine someone sleeping while hugging poison? If you ended up saying the wine was poisonous, why isn’t Rafal standing in court with a bottle of wine? Or do you think the inquisitors gave him specifically poisoned wine after arresting him? Why were they surprised then? Can you provide proof for this new schizo-theory of yours?

"After all, wine is dangerous for children." Not so much that a 12-year-old would die from one mug. In many European countries, kids drink table wine at an even younger age. And you’d need to mix in a couple of kilos of unrefined poppy seeds for them to affect him like that.

"Where’s your proof of your alternate timeline/universe theory?" I can suggest for the sixth time to reread my comment above, but maybe it’ll only sink in for you, basement dweller, on the seventh or eighth try.

"Reread what comment?" Wow! You finally started to catch on to what I’ve written to you six times already. Just a little more, and the guy might find the answer. Though there’s still a chance he’ll strike a pose and start ranting about his Ls.

A bunch of nothing burgers per usual.