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Why isn't the American animation industry like the Japanese one?

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Apr 21, 11:14 AM

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Oct 2013
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The issue is, over here, animation is still widely seen as an inferior artform. If you aren’t a big movie done by a major studio, you’re seen aa disposable. If you don’t hit the ground running, immediately pulling in crazy numbers, you’re seen as disposable. Them completely scrubbing most Cartoon Network stuff off Max knowing full well there’s no physical media for a lot of it, proves how little care there is for animation over here. To them, it was all just taking up space. Even things specifically made for their platform wasn’t safe. RIP Close Enough.

In some ways, we’re going in the right direction though. There’s been proof that animated series are a viable thing to put resources into. We’re getting more things geared towards older audiences that aren’t sitcoms thanks to streaming services taking risks on things major networks would never touch. Adult Swim is still around, so we’re getting some more unique stuff like Common Side Effects. I feel like I’m eating fairly good as a cartoon fan. Disappointments aside. Still salty about Close Enough and Inside Job. I still wouldn’t expect anything near the level Japans animation industry though.
Apr 21, 11:47 AM

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Feb 2024
3496
Reply to Auron
Funny how no one connected the dots to manga and comic culture, since that's the root of most Japanese animation. Even in 70s, mere years after Shounen Jump was founded, it surpassed DC Comics (around for decades) in monthly sales, and then widened the gap in the following years. Popular manga simply had more variety than popular comic books, latter being mostly superheroes (and even among superheroes, a lot of it was spin-offs of side characters from a more popular comic). Worse yet, they don't have any continuity, and keep getting rebooted or AU'ed, versus something like One Piece that is one continuous story from start to now.

It probably didn't help that major publishers in US adopted a Comics Code that prohibits many aspects that may be inappropriate for children, including rules like "criminals shall never be depicted in a sympathetic light", "in every instance good shall triumph over evil", "don't show excessive blood nor use horror or terror in title" etc.

They had a different approach towards comics, which bled into a different approach towards animation. There just isn't anything in the mainstream American comics of the 70s like Lone Wolf and Cub, or Barefoot Gen. It'd be caught by a gazillion reasons why it's improper to be shown by comic publishers and basically be DOA.
@Auron

That's a really stupid weeaboo comparison, even worse than a level of oranges vs apples. To begin with Japan and US do not even exist in the same continent and they are completely differenct countries with a different population. Leaving that aside DC Comics is a company that publishes many different comics whereas Shounen Jump is a Japanese magazine with various mangas published in it, and they do not they are not even in the same category to compare. Hell, they are not even in the same language, there is no logical or statistic approach to compare what sold more simply because they are completley different in pretty much everything whether be it the number of people who read them or the legth of series or even the language as I mentioned before. And the One Piece example is very much cherrypicking compared to hundreds of different superhero comics when they are hardly more than a dozen of very long ongoing manga. Not to mention, Comics Code ahs been chagned many times and abolsihed a long time ago, so taht theory of your doesn't hold water either. And your other comparison of "mainstream American comics of the 70s" to very much non-mainstream manga like Lone Wolf and Cub or Barefoot Gen is another cherrypicking nonsense. Just because a comic like Watchmen in the 80s does not mean it's any way inferior to the manga. If anything I'd say Watchmen is better than the ninety percent of the manga ever written.



Mod Edit: Removed baiting.
Mako995Apr 26, 6:06 PM
Apr 21, 1:31 PM

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Oct 2015
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@JoeChip

None of this makes sense, every objection you made makes the point even stronger and Japanese manga industry's rapid outpacing even more impressive.

They have different population, namely Japan having a bit over 1/3 of US population, which makes it even more of an achievement to dethrone a publishing giant established for decades in a few years in sales.

DC Comics is a company with many magazines whereas Shounen Jump is one magazine, which makes it even more of an achievement to outsell them.

One Piece example isn't to show Japanese comics run for longer, I don't think you would even pass literacy in some countries. It was to show Japanese comics retain more engagement through making one continuous cogent story that isn't rebooted or AU'ed or change authors, unlike American comics that do.

Lone Wolf and Cub or Barefoot Gen are some of the most mainstream Japanese comics of their time, meaning the 70s, they were serialized under high selling contemporary magazines.

Comic Code being abolished since then doesn't mean the market giants haven't consolidated enough of the market by the time it did, to set the norms and conventions to a large degree.

Watchmen is fine, as is Sandman, 2 examples doesn't make their popular comic industry as diverse.

I don't care one bit about Japan as a country, I think it is a war crime revisionist, xenophobic, sexist, and all around problematic society. You don't know who you are talking to.
AuronApr 21, 1:38 PM
Apr 21, 1:44 PM

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Jul 2013
12185
I tend not to watch most anime shows, because they are not worth my time watching.
Here is my Pixiv account of my hentai drawings.....

https://www.pixiv.net/en/users/104739065

Here is my blog....

https://theendofindustrialcivilization.blogspot.com/?m=1
Apr 21, 2:48 PM

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Feb 2024
3496
Reply to Auron
@JoeChip

None of this makes sense, every objection you made makes the point even stronger and Japanese manga industry's rapid outpacing even more impressive.

They have different population, namely Japan having a bit over 1/3 of US population, which makes it even more of an achievement to dethrone a publishing giant established for decades in a few years in sales.

DC Comics is a company with many magazines whereas Shounen Jump is one magazine, which makes it even more of an achievement to outsell them.

One Piece example isn't to show Japanese comics run for longer, I don't think you would even pass literacy in some countries. It was to show Japanese comics retain more engagement through making one continuous cogent story that isn't rebooted or AU'ed or change authors, unlike American comics that do.

Lone Wolf and Cub or Barefoot Gen are some of the most mainstream Japanese comics of their time, meaning the 70s, they were serialized under high selling contemporary magazines.

Comic Code being abolished since then doesn't mean the market giants haven't consolidated enough of the market by the time it did, to set the norms and conventions to a large degree.

Watchmen is fine, as is Sandman, 2 examples doesn't make their popular comic industry as diverse.

I don't care one bit about Japan as a country, I think it is a war crime revisionist, xenophobic, sexist, and all around problematic society. You don't know who you are talking to.
@Auron

Oh look everyone, our zoomer friend again posts a lot of baseless bs claims without providing any credible source and just hopes cherrypicking and strawman arguments will prove him right, I especially loved the part where he claims "which makes it even more of an achievement to dethrone a publishing giant established for decades in a few years in sales" without giving a single statistic , what a surprise from a zoomer with a limited brain activity.

There is no point in arguing with sopmeoen who doesn't even know the difference between magazine and comics so I will just stop here. Hope you keep posting to amuse me though.
Apr 21, 3:13 PM

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Oct 2015
6689
Reply to JoeChip
@Auron

Oh look everyone, our zoomer friend again posts a lot of baseless bs claims without providing any credible source and just hopes cherrypicking and strawman arguments will prove him right, I especially loved the part where he claims "which makes it even more of an achievement to dethrone a publishing giant established for decades in a few years in sales" without giving a single statistic , what a surprise from a zoomer with a limited brain activity.

There is no point in arguing with sopmeoen who doesn't even know the difference between magazine and comics so I will just stop here. Hope you keep posting to amuse me though.
@JoeChip

You can call it cherrypicking if you'll sleep better, but I responded to every substantive point you made and you glossed over all of them.

Excuse me for not giving the data, I imagine it'd be in vain since you struggled with and misrepresented even my simple post.

Well, here it is for anyone else that is literate who may be reading anyway

Shounen Jump annual sales.

mid-1970s comic book sales, average monthly sales. Times 12 for comparison

1977 seems to be the year of the cross-over, and the gap widens after that.
AuronApr 22, 3:18 AM
Apr 21, 4:08 PM

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Apr 2017
3008
Reply to Yui_Suzumiya69
Because western culture is close minded and won't embrace loli and little sister culture. I live in Texas so I should know, lol.
@Yui_Suzumiya69 Ironically, this isn't true. Of old or new shows. Step siblings isn't an unpopular concept here, for example. Overprotective older brother is also a thing in certain shows/movies. And wasn't Lolita a movie released here? Either way, a common trope in our shows is a teen getting with someone older (usually a teacher or person in their 20s).
Apr 21, 4:50 PM

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Apr 2018
1087
Reply to LuxuriousHeart
@Yui_Suzumiya69 Ironically, this isn't true. Of old or new shows. Step siblings isn't an unpopular concept here, for example. Overprotective older brother is also a thing in certain shows/movies. And wasn't Lolita a movie released here? Either way, a common trope in our shows is a teen getting with someone older (usually a teacher or person in their 20s).
LuxuriousHeart said:
wasn't Lolita a movie released here?

Yes, but only after making substantial changes from the novel. The 1997 adaptation is closer to the book than the 1962 adaptation, but it still suffers from the misunderstanding that the story is a romance. Nabokov must've been rolling in his grave. It should be seen more like a horror story. Dolores Haze was still depicted as a pretty girl, whereas Nabokov would've wanted her to be average and more childlike. Lolita seems to be unadaptable, which is fine because it doesn't need to be adapted.

LuxuriousHeart said:
Either way, a common trope in our shows is a teen getting with someone older (usually a teacher or person in their 20s).

I saw this movie called Miller’s Girl earlier this year, in February. It does involve a taboo relationship between a student and her teacher, but it unfortunately is extremely, mind-numbingly boring. I went in with the wrong expectations, admittedly. I was expecting something more like pinku eiga, but the movie lacks anything sexual.

On Letterboxd, I wrote:
For a film that spends a great deal of time talking about sex and the taboo relationship between a teacher and a student, there's a shocking lack of sex scenes and eroticism. What's the point of something like this existing if it isn't to get Jenna Ortega nude and in a sex scene? It doesn't help that the film is quite boring. What a waste.
Apr 21, 5:21 PM

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Apr 2017
3008
Reply to Purple_Gh0st24
LuxuriousHeart said:
wasn't Lolita a movie released here?

Yes, but only after making substantial changes from the novel. The 1997 adaptation is closer to the book than the 1962 adaptation, but it still suffers from the misunderstanding that the story is a romance. Nabokov must've been rolling in his grave. It should be seen more like a horror story. Dolores Haze was still depicted as a pretty girl, whereas Nabokov would've wanted her to be average and more childlike. Lolita seems to be unadaptable, which is fine because it doesn't need to be adapted.

LuxuriousHeart said:
Either way, a common trope in our shows is a teen getting with someone older (usually a teacher or person in their 20s).

I saw this movie called Miller’s Girl earlier this year, in February. It does involve a taboo relationship between a student and her teacher, but it unfortunately is extremely, mind-numbingly boring. I went in with the wrong expectations, admittedly. I was expecting something more like pinku eiga, but the movie lacks anything sexual.

On Letterboxd, I wrote:
For a film that spends a great deal of time talking about sex and the taboo relationship between a teacher and a student, there's a shocking lack of sex scenes and eroticism. What's the point of something like this existing if it isn't to get Jenna Ortega nude and in a sex scene? It doesn't help that the film is quite boring. What a waste.
@Purple_Gh0st24 I saw Tiny Pretty Things on Netflix. I personally thought it lost the plot and focused too much on the drama and too little on ballet. Though they did feature a teen girl sleeping with a genius ballet choreographer, and they even featured a female ballet company owner sleeping with one of her students. And it's implied that she slept with another previous student as well.

A lot of concepts that people think are unique to anime, are popular in media outside of anime, Japan as a whole, and Asia as a whole. I saw Blood and Water, a South African show. A subplot was one of the girls sleeping with her married swimming coach.
Apr 26, 6:07 PM
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