| I don't mind plot armour, but not when it's poorly explained plot armour. If the MC is going to survive or win, at least give me a reason that will satisfy me. I'm not asking for it to be logical, believable or even relevant to what I've seen so far in the anime. But I want something that will peak my curiosity. |
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| It can be annoying but I just expect it at this point and it doesn’t bother me as much now a days as long as the show is entertaining. |
| Please stop, I don’t want to see any more Dekugo😭 |
| It depends on the execution of the plot armor. I don't mind it in general, because why would an author follow the story of a character that concludes within the first couple minutes because the character dies. Would be a fairly short story. It's like how some people IRL have survived a bunch of crazy shit, yet nobody screams plot armor there. Stuff like that can happen and stuff like that is noteworthy enough to make a story around it usually. If it's done heavy-handedly, then I dislike it as well, but I don't have anything against "plot armor" in principle. |
Pit93 said: It depends on the execution of the plot armor. I don't mind it in general, because why would an author follow the story of a character that concludes within the first couple minutes because the character dies. Would be a fairly short story. It's like how some people IRL have survived a bunch of crazy shit, yet nobody screams plot armor there. Stuff like that can happen and stuff like that is noteworthy enough to make a story around it usually. If it's done heavy-handedly, then I dislike it as well, but I don't have anything against "plot armor" in principle. The difference between IRL and fiction, is that IRL the entire universe is trying to kill you, just consider the very concept of entropy, while in fiction the writer usually will do anything to keep the MC alive. |
| Anti-aliasing enthusiast |
JaniSIr said: Pit93 said: It depends on the execution of the plot armor. I don't mind it in general, because why would an author follow the story of a character that concludes within the first couple minutes because the character dies. Would be a fairly short story. It's like how some people IRL have survived a bunch of crazy shit, yet nobody screams plot armor there. Stuff like that can happen and stuff like that is noteworthy enough to make a story around it usually. If it's done heavy-handedly, then I dislike it as well, but I don't have anything against "plot armor" in principle. The difference between IRL and fiction, is that IRL the entire universe is trying to kill you, just consider the very concept of entropy, while in fiction the writer usually will do anything to keep the MC alive. I don't really see where you're going with this comparison. It doesn't address any of the points I've made. People can survive unlikely scenarios IRL, so I don't see the problem in anime. A story about a person that dies the second they set foot on a battlefield (or insert any other dangerous scenario) doesn't necessarily lend itself to telling a compelling story because it's immediately over. So of course an author would rather choose to tell a story about a character that survives a certain situation so they actually have a story to tell instead of it ending as a literal one-shot. |
Pit93 said: JaniSIr said: The difference between IRL and fiction, is that IRL the entire universe is trying to kill you, just consider the very concept of entropy, while in fiction the writer usually will do anything to keep the MC alive. I don't really see where you're going with this comparison. It doesn't address any of the points I've made. People can survive unlikely scenarios IRL, so I don't see the problem in anime. A story about a person that dies the second they set foot on a battlefield (or insert any other dangerous scenario) doesn't necessarily lend itself to telling a compelling story because it's immediately over. So of course an author would rather choose to tell a story about a character that survives a certain situation so they actually have a story to tell instead of it ending as a literal one-shot. The author doesn't choose to tell a story about unlikely survivors though. They choose to fabricate one with that specific criteria in mind. A specific character surviving isn't an unlikely possibility, but a desired outcome, and to get there the author can very obviously interfere. |
| Anti-aliasing enthusiast |
JaniSIr said: The author doesn't choose to tell a story about unlikely survivors though. They choose to fabricate one with that specific criteria in mind. A specific character surviving isn't an unlikely possibility, but a desired outcome, and to get there the author can very obviously interfere. Of course the author can interfere, yes. Doesn't really make a difference though imo, whether it's interference by an author or a stroke of luck IRL. For all intents and purposes, the author simply wrote a stroke of luck for a character into the story. |
Pit93 said: JaniSIr said: The author doesn't choose to tell a story about unlikely survivors though. They choose to fabricate one with that specific criteria in mind. A specific character surviving isn't an unlikely possibility, but a desired outcome, and to get there the author can very obviously interfere. Of course the author can interfere, yes. Doesn't really make a difference though imo, whether it's interference by an author or a stroke of luck IRL. For all intents and purposes, the author simply wrote a stroke of luck for a character into the story. That's what we call plot armor... And it matters, because we can tell that that's not a natural progression of the story, specifically because it's an author desired outcome, and not retelling of unlikely events that actually happened. |
| Anti-aliasing enthusiast |
JaniSIr said: That's what we call plot armor... And it matters, because we can tell that that's not a natural progression of the story, specifically because it's an author desired outcome, and not retelling of unlikely events that actually happened. And that's why I said in my initial post that you quoted, that I generally don't have a problem with plot armor depending on how it's executed. I don't necessarily think that it leads to an unnatural progression of the story either. Of course it's an author's desired outcome. Unless the author is rolling dice or flipping coins for their decisions, I'd expect a story to be all about the author's desired outcomes. |
| Plot armor is best when you don't recognize it as plot armor. If you are calling it plot armor it's because the author failed at immersing you in the story. |
LoveScope said: Paul_Foreign said: I love the concept of time travel, but you're right, it's almost never executed well in anime. Even worse, most of the time it is literally used as a form of plot armor. Summertime Render takes this to 11 as it concludes. I'd say even worse than anything stein's or rezero ever did. Its definitely unique compared to those shows and has its own take on the genre. Summertime render is probably the most different that I have seen as the villian feels a lot more dangerous and always lurking planning to win. I enjoy it a lot and there is definite tension that I think rezero does not capture sometimes as the mc has a lot more freedom to do what he needs as many times as he can handle. |
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| Most of the time when I see people complain about plot armor it's not even plot armor, just something that has been present in the series all along that someone just didn't notice the signs it was there until it dropkicked the viewer in the face. Some series do have terrible resolutions though, but they are fewer in number than everyone makes it seem to be honest, and its not that bad since those series are rather cliche to begin with(not saying that makes them bad btw) |
NyarlatAnime said: When that happens its almost as infuriating as when characters who are very intelligent and calm lose all thier wits for seemingly no reason on occassion(cuz plot I guess)Tap_Dancin_Kaiju said: Most of the time when I see people complain about plot armor it's not even plot armor, just something that has been present in the series all along that someone just didn't notice the signs it was there until it dropkicked the viewer in the face. Yeah, I think this is a pretty fair point. A lot of criticisms for media in general tends to be based in the viewers ignorance more than anything. Sometimes, this can be due to the story/writers/creators dropping the ball, but certainly not always. As for me, I cant really remember the last time I genuinely cared whether a character lived or died. So, for a lot of aspects, as long as there is some level of self-awareness on the shows/stories part and whatever happens entertains me.. Im good with it. However, on a related note, I do get a bit more easily annoyed when elements of the story are supported solely by the writers position as the creator of the story. This happens quite a bit when trying to create characters that are supposed to be intelligent, or even "brilliant," but the entirety of the trait is derived from the writer themselves simply having a level of omniscience in regards to the fictional world they are bringing to life. In a way, this can be connected to what many talk about with "plot armor," where the character that is created is essentially an idiot, but the narrative tells us differently and its backed up by events unfolding in a way that displays more of what the writer(s) wants the character to be instead of who & what the character actually is. |
Zoopiez said: LoveScope said: Summertime Render takes this to 11 as it concludes. I'd say even worse than anything stein's or rezero ever did. Its definitely unique compared to those shows and has its own take on the genre. Summertime render is probably the most different that I have seen as the villian feels a lot more dangerous and always lurking planning to win. I enjoy it a lot and there is definite tension that I think rezero does not capture sometimes as the mc has a lot more freedom to do what he needs as many times as he can handle. Finish the manga or wait for the anime to finish (if it hasn't already?) so that you get what I mean. |
I may make you feel but I can't make you think.  |
deg said: this is one of the most common buzzword i hear every time in the forums its like people want characters to die so much just why? especially killing main characters is realism or real life logic that important in anime? why not treat it as luck ye the main characters are lucky The only time I have an issue with plot armor is when the writer uses it as a crutch or if it's used to the point where death in a given work is nigh meaningless, because the plot convenience fairy or some such bollocks will always whisk you back to life or make things all better somehow, no matter what |
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| somebody already said, no stakes, makes it less interesting |
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