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Dec 10, 2009 6:16 AM

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Mar 2008
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Welp, I guess the story flat out gave up this episode.

It amazes me just how much bullshit this show can pull out of it's ass completely straight faced. That's definitively an achievement in writing fiction, though I don't know wether it's positive or negative...

Also, why is Gaap the only magic user character in the show smart enough to use her magic in practical ways? And why did I have to wait 24 episodes for something like that?
Dec 10, 2009 6:40 AM

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Apr 2008
11325
Ketuekigami said:
If it wasn't for there being so few episodes left and my general inability to drop most series this one gets so close to my list. Most disappointing episode since the episode 3 finale.

Notable things missing (no need for spoilers since if it wasn't in this one it's on the cutting room floor.)
1) Krouss vs. Goat-kun.
2) Goat chase.
3) kyrie key hole.
4) Beatrice's red sin.
5) Comic relief Virgil.
6) Explanation for gapgapgapgapgap.
7) Gap's teleporting kick.
8) Heel in the face.
9) Sexy masochist Beatrice.

It's understandable that a few of those were cut but by the sheer volume it takes away almost all excitement for the finale. We could have easily gotten another episode out of this, not to mention that a few of these things could have taken mere seconds if just animated.

All in all i can't wait for episode 5 too finish translation so I can forget all about this anime.

That sums it up nicely.

I wanted to hear Ohara say those words soo bad!!! maybe in the audio drama CD's >_>

You and me both, man T_T
Dec 10, 2009 6:51 AM
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Oct 2008
84
This episode was really bad. Really bad.
Dec 10, 2009 7:00 AM
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Dec 2008
250
Didn't touch the original material. For me, the episode was awesome. Man I love the gore. Unlike the previous episodes this one made me pay attention until the end.

lol and what's up with Virgillia? She looks totally out of character. Was she always like this?
Dec 10, 2009 7:00 AM

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Oct 2009
106
Dozer said:

Also, why is Gaap the only magic user character in the show smart enough to use her magic in practical ways? And why did I have to wait 24 episodes for something like that?


Because magic isn't real.
Dec 10, 2009 7:01 AM

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Aug 2008
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So Battler isn't who he says (thinks) he is?
Why not?

Terrible episode. Normally, I can pull something out and say, "this is most interesting," but not this week. I'm kind of stunned that after a revelation like that, Ange didn't seem the least bit surprised. Does she know something? Do I care? Furthermore, I'm surprised that Kyrie was talking about being cold to Battler, even though every scene between them contradicts that thought. This really is a horrendous adaptation of a (and I'm guessing) dumb concept.

I never thought I'd watch a show more disengaging than Chaos;Head.
Dec 10, 2009 7:05 AM

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Oct 2009
3647
noteDhero said:
So Battler isn't who he says (thinks) he is?
Why not?

Terrible episode. Normally, I can pull something out and say, "this is most interesting," but not this week. I'm kind of stunned that after a revelation like that, Ange didn't seem the least bit surprised. Does she know something? Do I care? Furthermore, I'm surprised that Kyrie was talking about being cold to Battler, even though every scene between them contradicts that thought. This really is a horrendous adaptation of a (and I'm guessing) dumb concept.

I never thought I'd watch a show more disengaging than Chaos;Head.

But you know I am more baffled as to why they only censored one part and the others were very gory....also like many said this:
Ketuekigami said:

Notable things missing (no need for spoilers since if it wasn't in this one it's on the cutting room floor.)
1) Krouss vs. Goat-kun.
2) Goat chase.
3) kyrie key hole.
4) Beatrice's red sin.
5) Comic relief Virgil.
6) Explanation for gapgapgapgapgap.
7) Gap's teleporting kick.
8) Heel in the face.
9) Sexy masochist Beatrice.

It's understandable that a few of those were cut but by the sheer volume it takes away almost all excitement for the finale. We could have easily gotten another episode out of this, not to mention that a few of these things could have taken mere seconds if just animated.

All in all i can't wait for episode 5 too finish translation so I can forget all about this anime.
This would have made maybe more interesting for you noteDhero but not sure about that.

In spoiler my anime list for now.
Dec 10, 2009 7:19 AM

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2010
God, what a crappy episode. It's easily one of the worst yet. So many great scenes cut out. Though I definitely agree with everyone about the final scene with Maria being good.

At least the next 2 episodes won't be rushed...

Znips: When Shay is born she just crawls back in the womb to shitpost for another year
Dec 10, 2009 8:19 AM

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Oct 2008
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Finally watched the episode subbed… It's useless! It's all useless!

Thank you DEEN for this horrible adaptation. Seriously, I don’t even know where to begin.
In Umineko, the details are important, so cutting a lot of valuable information (even red text) totally mess with the story. I won’t even talk about the butchered characterization. Oh yeah, we have Jessica fan service instead...great.
The worse is it could still work with what DEEN left in, if they just fucking put a little bit of EFFORT into it, maybe like actually researching the show and keeping its feel and tone, but no, they like their scenes to be lukewarm and lack any atmosphere.
They can't even get the damn music right, when all they have to do is read to the point where it plays in the VN, and place it basically in the same place in the animation.

Dec 10, 2009 8:35 AM

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526
The last scene was done horribly.

It was supposed to be a great scene but so many things were changed that made it a confusing mess.
Dec 10, 2009 8:38 AM

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155
dioptase said:
Finally watched the episode subbed… It's useless! It's all useless!

Thank you DEEN for this horrible adaptation. Seriously, I don’t even know where to begin.
In Umineko, the details are important, so cutting a lot of valuable information (even red text) totally mess with the story. I won’t even talk about the butchered characterization. Oh yeah, we have Jessica fan service instead...great.
The worse is it could still work with what DEEN left in, if they just fucking put a little bit of EFFORT into it, maybe like actually researching the show and keeping its feel and tone, but no, they like their scenes to be lukewarm and lack any atmosphere.
They can't even get the damn music right, when all they have to do is read to the point where it plays in the VN, and place it basically in the same place in the animation.



Agree. I wonder where Ryukishi is now. His only participation was choosing voice actors?

Dec 10, 2009 8:56 AM

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Yuuh said:
dioptase said:
Finally watched the episode subbed… It's useless! It's all useless!

Thank you DEEN for this horrible adaptation. Seriously, I don’t even know where to begin.
In Umineko, the details are important, so cutting a lot of valuable information (even red text) totally mess with the story. I won’t even talk about the butchered characterization. Oh yeah, we have Jessica fan service instead...great.
The worse is it could still work with what DEEN left in, if they just fucking put a little bit of EFFORT into it, maybe like actually researching the show and keeping its feel and tone, but no, they like their scenes to be lukewarm and lack any atmosphere.
They can't even get the damn music right, when all they have to do is read to the point where it plays in the VN, and place it basically in the same place in the animation.



Agree. I wonder where Ryukishi is now. His only participation was choosing voice actors?


Dec 10, 2009 9:55 AM

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Would be more helpfull if Vn players give us animewatchers hints and details from the VN and stop complaining the anime adaptation because its really annoying
soo if possible i want to know who hurted Beatrice and what happened six years ago and why Battler is not able to remember what happened and was Battler at that time 12 years old ?

Dec 10, 2009 9:58 AM

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You're asking for spoilers.
Leave that to private messages.
Dec 10, 2009 9:59 AM

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Airitoizzy said:
Would be more helpfull if Vn players give us animewatchers hints and details from the VN and stop complaining the anime adaptation because its really annoying
soo if possible i want to know who hurted Beatrice and what happened six years ago and why Battler is not able to remember what happened and was Battler at that time 12 years old ?

let me tell you even we don't know yet though I can't speak for the readers of Episode 5 >_>
Dec 10, 2009 10:02 AM

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The anime is almost at the end of EP4 and that's where the translation stops.

EP5 will be done around Christmas.

Aside from the details missing in the anime, you know almost everything we do.
Dec 10, 2009 10:10 AM

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155
Darklight0303 said:
Yuuh said:
dioptase said:
Finally watched the episode subbed… It's useless! It's all useless!

Thank you DEEN for this horrible adaptation. Seriously, I don’t even know where to begin.
In Umineko, the details are important, so cutting a lot of valuable information (even red text) totally mess with the story. I won’t even talk about the butchered characterization. Oh yeah, we have Jessica fan service instead...great.
The worse is it could still work with what DEEN left in, if they just fucking put a little bit of EFFORT into it, maybe like actually researching the show and keeping its feel and tone, but no, they like their scenes to be lukewarm and lack any atmosphere.
They can't even get the damn music right, when all they have to do is read to the point where it plays in the VN, and place it basically in the same place in the animation.



Agree. I wonder where Ryukishi is now. His only participation was choosing voice actors?






MarthX, you meant "EP4 will be done around Christmas", right? Or EP5 translation and edition are already finishing?
Dec 10, 2009 10:18 AM

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Aside from the details missing in the anime, you know almost everything we do.

Okay soo no vital infos are missing just u are not satisfied with the anime but reading the tread looked like something crucial was cut out

@Notedhero i can't wait 2 years for ni Chiru soo if someone has spoilers he/she is really Welcome

Dec 10, 2009 10:19 AM

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Yuuh said:
MarthX, you meant "EP4 will be done around Christmas", right? Or EP5 translation and edition are already finishing?


EP5 is almost translated, I don't know if Witch Hunt will release it before EP6 or not.
(EP6 is out December 30.)
Dec 10, 2009 10:24 AM

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noteDhero said:

I'm kind of stunned that after a revelation like that, Ange didn't seem the least bit surprised.

In the VN, I think Beatrice kicked Ange out because she realized that Beatrice was trying erase Battler.
Dec 10, 2009 10:38 AM

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Airitoizzy said:
Aside from the details missing in the anime, you know almost everything we do.

Okay soo no vital infos are missing just u are not satisfied with the anime but reading the tread looked like something crucial was cut out

@Notedhero i can't wait 2 years for ni Chiru soo if someone has spoilers he/she is really Welcome

yes they did. Beato didn't state that Battler has a sin in RED. that's a big oversight and some people will try to see that as a lie >_>
Dec 10, 2009 10:45 AM

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Sigh As usual - They cut things Krauss 'elite' moment - Virgiliia being stuck under a goat .. Shannon and Kannon KO's the Seistas for a short while and showing how much of a combination they are .. Dropping info on battlers family stuff AGAIN - Changing beatrices tones from .. oddly calm to yelling. Not showing the Kyrie being shot bit.

And once again they added something that was never there she never said that his sin in that manner and she certainly never said his sin was one of the causes of this tragedy - And Ange was the one who tried to stop Beatrice from doing what she did and Ange was smashed away by Beatrice so she could do such. *sigh* Very poorly done as for what they were thinking ? "Did anyone read the novel? No? well lets just make some shit up" perhaps

Darklight0303 said:
Beato didn't state that Battler has a sin in RED. that's a big oversight and some people will try to see that as a lie >_>
indeed

hirahira said:

In the VN, I think Beatrice kicked Ange out because she realized that Beatrice was trying erase Battler.


Yes I said the same thing.. and its also possible Ange may know the truth as to this .. little situation as she seemed to also know how she was about to try and erase him
Dec 10, 2009 10:45 AM

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Airitoizzy said:

Okay soo no vital infos are missing just u are not satisfied with the anime but reading the tread looked like something crucial was cut out


Battler said / did something 6 years ago and it's the indirect cause of the murders.
Dec 10, 2009 10:57 AM

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Darklight0303 said:
Airitoizzy said:
Aside from the details missing in the anime, you know almost everything we do.

Okay soo no vital infos are missing just u are not satisfied with the anime but reading the tread looked like something crucial was cut out

@Notedhero i can't wait 2 years for ni Chiru soo if someone has spoilers he/she is really Welcome

yes they did. Beato didn't state that Battler has a sin in RED. that's a big oversight and some people will try to see that as a lie >_>


She also said that she opened this game to fight with Kinzo's grandson Ushiromiya Battler in red.

And they took out the part with Meta-Beatrice and Piece Beatrice talking to each other. And they took out when Beatrice was talking about how she was abused by Kinzo and how Battler talked in Engrish all the time when he was younger. That's the main reason the Shannontrice theory is so popular.
Dec 10, 2009 11:07 AM

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But other then cutting out essential facts and making some things up.. its 100% accurate right? *gag*
Dec 10, 2009 1:16 PM

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hirahira said:
Darklight0303 said:
Airitoizzy said:
Aside from the details missing in the anime, you know almost everything we do.

Okay soo no vital infos are missing just u are not satisfied with the anime but reading the tread looked like something crucial was cut out

@Notedhero i can't wait 2 years for ni Chiru soo if someone has spoilers he/she is really Welcome

yes they did. Beato didn't state that Battler has a sin in RED. that's a big oversight and some people will try to see that as a lie >_>


She also said that she opened this game to fight with Kinzo's grandson Ushiromiya Battler in red.

And they took out the part with Meta-Beatrice and Piece Beatrice talking to each other. And they took out when Beatrice was talking about how she was abused by Kinzo and how Battler talked in Engrish all the time when he was younger. That's the main reason the Shannontrice theory is so popular.


im guessing 12 years old Battler saw Kinzo abusing Beatrice but Battler was only a child and probably couldn't realize the abuse properly and after he forgot now i got Beato bad sad mood in testing his memories and i thought exactly Battler Did SAID Something indirectly not like he wanted to hurt someone on purpouse and with those extra infos i can say its not a truthfully adaptation and an anime watcher needs the VN because how can one figure out about Beato past her hate for Kinzo her will for revenge and so on
i realized i was wrong thinking at human Beato age
AiritoizzyDec 10, 2009 3:05 PM

Dec 10, 2009 1:25 PM

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yes they did. Beato didn't state that Battler has a sin in RED. that's a big oversight and some people will try to see that as a lie >_>

WARNING !!!!!!!!!!!! Spoilers EP5 IN THE RED LINK
i Saw the Red Truth I can put a link for only anime watchers and i know its not a Lie HERE CLICK TO SEE THE RED TRUTH


She also said that she opened this game to fight with Kinzo's grandson Ushiromiya Battler in red.
Never read it yet

And they took out the part with Meta-Beatrice and Piece Beatrice talking to each other. And they took out when Beatrice was talking about how she was abused by Kinzo and how Battler talked in Engrish all the time when he was younger. That's the main reason the Shannontrice theory is so popular.

soo WAS also Shannon abused by Kinzo or by someone else
o_o the old man sure is active with women


AiritoizzyDec 10, 2009 3:02 PM

Dec 10, 2009 1:41 PM

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Airitoizzy said:


soo WAS also Shannon abused by Kinzo or by someone else
o_o the old man sure is active with women




We don't know if Shannon was abused by anyone but if the Shannontrice theory is true then she was. The reason why people think Beatrice is Shannon is because Shannon is the one who remembers what Battler was like 6 years ago and that he used to talk in Engrish all the time and that's one of the first things that Beatrice mentions when she was talking to him on the phone. And Battler said he used to have a crush on Shannon.

Dec 10, 2009 1:48 PM

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That link you posted contains spoilers for episode 5 as well >_>

hirahira said:
Airitoizzy said:


soo WAS also Shannon abused by Kinzo or by someone else
o_o the old man sure is active with women




We don't know if Shannon was abused by anyone but if the Shannontrice theory is true then she was. The reason why people think Beatrice is Shannon is because Shannon is the one who remembers what Battler was like 6 years ago and that he used to talk in Engrish all the time and that's one of the first things that Beatrice mentions when she was talking to him on the phone. And Battler said he used to have a crush on Shannon.



I will use the same counter I did for the Jessitrice theory. Battler would recognize Shanon >_>
Dec 10, 2009 1:52 PM

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hirahira said:
In the VN, Battler said her face looked like the woman in the portrait and that he didn't recognize her voice. I don't know if Jessica could really change her voice that much and she would have had to change her hairstyle too. And in the VN, Beatrice threw down her umbrella. I don't think that someone would do that if they were trying to pretend to be someone else. I guess I just don't want Beato to be Jessica.

I'm still suspicous of Jessica though. I don't think she's a murderer or anything like that but she's probably a liar. I think she's just following her dad's orders.

Kyrie is the most suspicious this arc.
Well, in fact I don’t like the Jessica-Beatrice speculation either, just pointing out the similarities, and… if this is the same Beatrice we know from earlier arcs, then she must be one of the 18 people we know. and I think it was more or less proved in arc 1 already, though suggested by Kyrie but it was really logical~
but of course this also means that Rosa couldnt recognize Beatrice either face to face in arc 2, so what that means again is up to anyone…

Darklight0303 said:
francismeunier said:
dioptase said:
francismeunier said:

Interesting debate but what about the adoption possibility?


Really so Beatrice is wrong about Battler not being Kinzo's grandchild?

This discussion about battler's mom is interesting...but, isnt there also the possibility that Battler is the child of "Beatrice" who died 20 years or so ago? :D
Dec 10, 2009 1:53 PM

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vinesage said:
hirahira said:
In the VN, Battler said her face looked like the woman in the portrait and that he didn't recognize her voice. I don't know if Jessica could really change her voice that much and she would have had to change her hairstyle too. And in the VN, Beatrice threw down her umbrella. I don't think that someone would do that if they were trying to pretend to be someone else. I guess I just don't want Beato to be Jessica.

I'm still suspicous of Jessica though. I don't think she's a murderer or anything like that but she's probably a liar. I think she's just following her dad's orders.

Kyrie is the most suspicious this arc.
Well, in fact I don’t like the Jessica-Beatrice speculation either, just pointing out the similarities, and… if this is the same Beatrice we know from earlier arcs, then she must be one of the 18 people we know. and I think it was more or less proved in arc 1 already, though suggested by Kyrie but it was really logical~
but of course this also means that Rosa couldnt recognize Beatrice either face to face in arc 2, so what that means again is up to anyone…

Darklight0303 said:
francismeunier said:
dioptase said:
francismeunier said:

Interesting debate but what about the adoption possibility?


Really so Beatrice is wrong about Battler not being Kinzo's grandchild?

This discussion about battler's mom is interesting...but, isnt there also the possibility that Battler is the child of "Beatrice" who died 20 years or so ago? :D

That would mean Beatrice did the necessary act with Rudolf >_> no just no
Dec 10, 2009 1:56 PM

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Darklight0303 said:
That would mean Beatrice did the necessary act with Rudolf >_> no just no
lol...no, I mean she and kinzo....wasnt the human Beatrice supposed to be Kinzo's lover, trapped on the island for some reason?...well I thought it is quite possible
Dec 10, 2009 1:56 PM

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Darklight0303 said:
That link you posted contains spoilers for episode 5 as well >_>

hirahira said:
Airitoizzy said:


soo WAS also Shannon abused by Kinzo or by someone else
o_o the old man sure is active with women




We don't know if Shannon was abused by anyone but if the Shannontrice theory is true then she was. The reason why people think Beatrice is Shannon is because Shannon is the one who remembers what Battler was like 6 years ago and that he used to talk in Engrish all the time and that's one of the first things that Beatrice mentions when she was talking to him on the phone. And Battler said he used to have a crush on Shannon.



I will use the same counter I did for the Jessitrice theory. Battler would recognize Shanon >_>


I agree. I don't support the Shannontrice theory. It's hard to imagine Shannon acting like that anyway.

vinesage said:
This discussion about battler's mom is interesting...but, isnt there also the possibility that Battler is the child of "Beatrice" who died 20 years or so ago? :D


That is another theory. But then that would make Battler Kinzo's son...

And then there's another theory that Jessica is Beatrice's daughter.
Dec 10, 2009 1:59 PM

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vinesage said:
Darklight0303 said:
That would mean Beatrice did the necessary act with Rudolf >_> no just no
lol...no, I mean she and kinzo....wasnt the human Beatrice supposed to be Kinzo's lover, trapped on the island for some reason?...well I thought it is quite possible

Darklight0303Dec 10, 2009 2:10 PM
Dec 10, 2009 2:04 PM

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Darklight0303 said:
vinesage said:
Darklight0303 said:
That would mean Beatrice did the necessary act with Rudolf >_> no just no
lol...no, I mean she and kinzo....wasnt the human Beatrice supposed to be Kinzo's lover, trapped on the island for some reason?...well I thought it is quite possible



Dec 10, 2009 2:12 PM

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ok, just strike through what i said .... :D
Dec 10, 2009 2:18 PM

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Okay, first about the actual episode, they censored the most minor things and let the most gory remain; I don't understand that. The Virgilia scene where the Siestas tell her about the escape from the dungeon and she starts loosing it and saying gapgapgap... was real funny and a nice change from this epsiodes overall tone. George and Jessica killing each other was quite cruel, and I'm guessing they didn't pass the test because they didn't keep calm enough, or give good enough reasons?

Now about the posts in this thread:
1. What Beatrice said in the vn in red was nice to know, thanks!
2. The link Airitoizzy posted with all the red truth is making me wonder if there were mistakes on that page, or did Beatrice contradict herself at times? I'm not denying the red truth, but in it she said there were 18 people in red, then she said there were 17 people in red.

Now for Battler not being Asuma's son, I have a couple ideas (some entirely irrational) other than the babies being switched:
1. He (and maybe also Ange) were Rudolf's children from another woman, and neither Asuma nor Kyrie ever wanted to admit it so they or Rudolf made up the story of the two babies and one being stillborne? Though considering what Kyrie said in the last game, the babies being switched makes more sense.
2. Him and Ange were both children of another sibling, Eva in particular? It would explain their red hair color more than Kyrie being white haired and Rudolf being brown but her giving birth to a red haired daughter, since there does seem to be some sense in the characters hair colors. Of course, it could've just skipped a generation... But I could see Eva saying how she wouldn't want to raise another kid, only George. Just another random theory, though I doubt this one, or for that matter either of these two.

And I'm just going to say that at first what came to mind was, what if he was actually related to Beatrice, like her son or maybe a descendant of her family through a sibling she had in the past? After all, they have the same blue eyes...
(Almost) 13 years on MAL!
()__()
(='.'=)
(")_(")
Dec 10, 2009 2:21 PM

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mangastar said:
And I'm just going to say that at first what came to mind was, what if he was actually related to Beatrice, like her son or maybe a descendant of her family through a sibling she had in the past? After all, they have the same blue eyes...

If that were true more than half the cast of this show would be related to Beatrice. Eye color proves nothing thanks to the anime >_>
Dec 10, 2009 2:25 PM

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mangastar said:

Now about the posts in this thread:





You shouldn't have clicked that because it has spoilers in it

In answer to your question

Dec 10, 2009 2:31 PM

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hirahira said:
mangastar said:

Now about the posts in this thread:




You shouldn't have clicked that because it has spoilers in it

In answer to your question



Mmm, I realised that and stopped once it seemed about where we're at. ^^ So I didn't read any of the spoilers
(Almost) 13 years on MAL!
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(='.'=)
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Dec 10, 2009 2:38 PM

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Darklight0303 said:
vinesage said:
Darklight0303 said:
That would mean Beatrice did the necessary act with Rudolf >_> no just no
lol...no, I mean she and kinzo....wasnt the human Beatrice supposed to be Kinzo's lover, trapped on the island for some reason?...well I thought it is quite possible



Dec 10, 2009 2:49 PM

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Wattson said:
Darklight0303 said:
vinesage said:
Darklight0303 said:
That would mean Beatrice did the necessary act with Rudolf >_> no just no
lol...no, I mean she and kinzo....wasnt the human Beatrice supposed to be Kinzo's lover, trapped on the island for some reason?...well I thought it is quite possible




Dec 10, 2009 2:52 PM

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ok, I have been trying to think of some theories, but this arc is confusing so far, i think to sum it up short would help clearing the vision :D

so this is how the 1st twilight starts:
------------------------------------------------------------
Kinzo shows up in the meeting of 14 people (including himself), among them, 6 are supposed to be killed, 5 prisoned and 2 have escaped. There was then a call from Krauss telling the 4 grandchildren to partake a kind of test (separately?) and to lock the 2 escaped servants up in a storehouse. The (only?) key is then thrown into the storehouse; so theoretically, nobody can either enter or come out of it.

the order of who takes test first is then announced by Kyrie through phone call. Jessica and George are called out first (separately), then Battler and Maria. Both Jessica and George are supposed to have died. Jessica calls Battler shortly before she dies and warns him of the culprit not being human.

In the mean time, the (supposed) 5 prisoners escape but are killed one after the other on the run. The last one is Kyrie who calls Battler one last time telling him to believe magic if a witch or etc is to show up.

Then the last phone call is made by an unknown person who claims to be Beatrice. When battler comes out of his room, he finds both servants murdered in the still locked storehouse. When Battler arrives at his designated place, he finds a box containing letter on the floor, and a woman up on the dark balcony.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

And so here is my thought:
the most obvious thing solvable in this mess have to be the murder of 2 servants in locked room (storehouse). Battler saw the corpses and death is almost certain.
Well, how to kill people in a closed room while the only key is inside the room as well?

I think only explanation in this case should be:
After the children locked Gohda and Kumasawa in the storeroom, the key was thrown into the room through the window. The children left, and somebody(s) else came. He revealed himself to the 2 inside the locked room, and they gave him the key through the window. This person opened the door, murdered Gohda and Kumasawa inside, set it up, locked the room, left with the key.
So obvious thing to check if this is exactly how it happened, is only to check if Gohda or Kumasawa still has the key~

Now to the part how this could happen (aka why gave the key to culprit). Well, obvious explanation would be Gohda and Kumasawa knew this murderer and were actually accomplice themselves, but for various reason, they are useless now and the culprit decided to get rid of them. So when they threw the key through the window, they were hoping to be freed, which was sadly not what the murderer had in mind.

Now with this in mind, think about the 1st twilight again:
14 people meeting, 6 killed, 5 prisoned, 2 escaped, 1 insane; This is the story Krauss/Kyrie were suggesting, and how Gohda and Kumasawa described it. Since these 2 servants are now confirmed as accomplice (to their own murderer), it is obvious to doubt what they said (which we all do anyway~). And since the story they told fits the one Krauss and Kyrie suggested, it is only logical to say Krauss and Kyrie were the ones who murdered Gohda and Kumasawa; but I would be more careful there…it is only safe to say Krauss and Kyrie are at least accomplices in this arc, whether or not they are culprits or it is still someone else, is still to be shown I believe~

my personal opinion is that Krauss and kyrie might not know the death of Gohda and Kumasawa. I (most certainly) suspect another culprit. And Nanjo, or even Shanon and Kanon were closer to this main culprit than Kyrie and Krauss~
And even though Battler hasnt seen most of the dead himself, i believe most of them really died, like eva, george etc...but it would be safer to wait till battler confirms the corpses before making further theory here~

Wattson said:
Darklight0303 said:
vinesage said:
Darklight0303 said:
That would mean Beatrice did the necessary act with Rudolf >_> no just no
lol...no, I mean she and kinzo....wasnt the human Beatrice supposed to be Kinzo's lover, trapped on the island for some reason?...well I thought it is quite possible



lol thats some really disturbing theory coming up...
vinesageDec 10, 2009 2:57 PM
Dec 10, 2009 2:55 PM

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The worst part about all this speculation is that right now it will start hitting the brickwall of "well, not even the VN readers know that!" a lot! At this rate EP4 is feeling like just a cliffhanger to read Chiru.

Lol Jessitrice... Even if we could say for sure "Battler clearly saw Beatrice, and she didn't sound nor look the least similar to Jessica", Jessica is still so suspicious due to her call through the banana phone that I can't get it out of my mind.

Ah... it does feel like DEEN gave up with this episode, but I'm still enjoying it so what the heck.
Dec 10, 2009 2:57 PM

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May 2009
611
That link you posted contains spoilers for episode 5 as well >_>

Im Really sorry for that i saw the red truth days ago and don't check it again till today soo i was at the part in


now i will edit my previous post with warning Spoilers Ep5

Dec 10, 2009 2:59 PM

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194
Am I the only Anime-only watcher in this thread??

Almost every post begins with "In the VN, George/Battler/Beatrice/Jessica did........"

...and proceeds with "Deen is so lazy, they cut out this (Useless and pointless) part (that is just filler and won't be needed to understand the story, like that goat-kun shit everybody keeps whining about, OR will come out in the later episodes)"

If you people hate DEEN so much why bother forcing yourself to watch it up to episode 24? (Why not stick with the VN?) A more important question, why would you WANT DEEN to animate Chiru if you're just going to bitch about it when it comes out?
Dec 10, 2009 3:02 PM

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Rail_Tracer said:
why would you WANT DEEN to animate Chiru if you're just going to bitch about it when it comes out?


They don't want DEEN to animate it lol.

Rail_Tracer, it seems you have never seen this, but it's pretty common. Fans of the original work always hate adaptations, with almost no exception. Some are more vocal with hate about it, some probably do exactly what you say, and some do enjoy it anyway.

Oh well, I can see some disappointment about scenes removed, but the Goat-kun stuff seems to be pretty hated itself so some people were actually grateful for it on other boards (and I'm pretty sure I saw comments of the sort here as well).
Dec 10, 2009 3:05 PM

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don't get me wrong. I didn't really care about goat kun but certain details were left out. Details that DO play a role in the overall plot. That IS worth bitching about.
Dec 10, 2009 3:09 PM

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194
Darklight0303 said:
don't get me wrong. I didn't really care about goat kun but certain details were left out. Details that DO play a role in the overall plot. That IS worth bitching about.


...Or will come out in later episodes. Just like the incident where people thought
Rail_TracerDec 10, 2009 3:13 PM
Dec 10, 2009 3:11 PM

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Oct 2008
209
Rail_Tracer said:
If you people hate DEEN so much why bother forcing yourself to watch it up to episode 24? (Why not stick with the VN?) A more important question, why would you WANT DEEN to animate Chiru if you're just going to bitch about it when it comes out?


It's just like a traffic accident: it's horrible and yet you still watch it. And no, I don't want DEEN to animate Chiru, I hope another studio will do the job.
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