I don't get why it's considered lazy writing for people on the alliance to be against the rumbling?

Mar 14, 2022 3:35 PM

Offline

Jul 2020

187

racers551 said:

PMJ11 said:
I’ve never really had a problem with this but it’s just kind of convenient that all the main characters are the ones who are against the rumbling while every other character we see who doesn’t matter is in favor of it

it’s completely a nitpick though and it doesn’t matter I don’t know why this is something people get angry about when there is already plenty of other aspects about the final arc to be angry about

Hitch? She's not in favor of it. Eren, the main character, obviously is in favor of it.

So that's kind of moot. They're not convienient. Reiner literally has to save his home, with Gabi and Falco and Margath. Hanji has been struggling with morality throughout season 4, as well as Armin. Jean has as well, hence why he hestiated to kill Falco. They've been all struggling with morality since the end of the Marley arc.

I get it they all have a reason to support it but it’s just kind of weird that we don’t see anyone else seem to struggle with morality of mass genocide I mean I seriously doubt that in real life an entire island of people would be ok with mass genocide because that is how it’s being portrayed isayama wants us to think that the main characters are the only good guys here and they’re fighting against the entire island of paradis which is just artificially raising the stakes which he honestly didn’t need to do.

Again though it’s a nitpick that doesn’t matter

Mar 14, 2022 3:41 PM

#52

vileoivm12

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Aug 2014

29

Fuhrer_Wrath said:

vileoivm12 said:

Ok. Where did Hange say any of this? All she did was claim genocide is bad and the dead would be against (even though we have seen a lot of the military actually being in favor of it. The dead would be no different.

Sorry, I was unclear, what I meant is that Isayama did not articulate this idea through Hange's speech on why she opposed Eren's plan.

Also, I disagree. I don't think you can convince anyone and bring people to your side by just saying genocide is bad. How else would the world learn and move forward if your unwilling to explain why certain ideas are bad?

Dude, genocide is wrong. It doesn't have to be explained. Your literally killing of entire races. Thousands if not millions of innocent people, including children.
Do you really think it needs to be explained why the murder of millions of Children who don't even understand the concept of morality properly, who don't have an ounce of hatred in there heart because they are too young to understand it,is wrong.

Genocide is wrong the way, say r4pe is wrong. It's wrong because it is. Never in a million years will there ever be any circumstances where it has to be explained and justified why it's wrong.

People who are opposed to Genocide should never have to justify their aversion to it. Because it's f*cking Genocide.
It's one of the worst crimes that can be commited against humanity.

I've said this before. You can be in favor of Genocide if you're circumstances are forcing you. Sure.
But aversion to genocide is the natural response.

There are circumstances where genocide and r4pe are justifiable. But anyways, when the majority of people inside the walls are against your idea, how can you dismiss their side and just is bad and expect that to be well written conversation? When Jean is literally on the edge between supporting or opposing Eren's plan, how could you just claim genocide is bad without further explanation?

There are plenty of reasons why genocide in aot world is bad:
1- The world is diverse. There are some nations and people that are not oppressing the Eldians like the black dude's hometown and Mikasa's hometown
2- Eldians also live outside those walls. They are currently being oppressed and Eren would be worsening their pain.
3- putting the sins of the father on the child is a recipe for disaster. And Eren would only reinforce this idea by his plan. So, paradise and the world would still be conflict as Eren just artificially delayed the conflict rather than solve it.
4- from a technological and environmental standpoint, the rumbling is horrible. It would destroy land and corpses would be everywhere. Technology that is necessary for survival like medicine would be set back 100's of years which will greatly effect the health of the living.
...
...
And there are plenty more.

But, why did Hange not incorporate any of this in her speech? That why the writing felt lazy.

Mar 14, 2022 7:54 PM

#53

Fuhrer_Wrath

Offline

Dec 2020

524

vileoivm12 said:

Fuhrer_Wrath said:

vileoivm12 said:

racers551 said:

vileoivm12 said:

racers551 said:

vileoivm12 said:
The motivation is fine for the most part, but the way certain motivations are explained to the viewer were pretty bad. For example, Hange's explanation on why she wants to stop Eren is basically non-existent (Saying genocide is bad is not an argument. You need to explain why it's bad in this situation).

... you need to explain why genocide is a bad thing?

Can we agree that Genocide of any kind is stupid?

Jean said clearly that Eren, if he wanted purely Paradis to live, then he'd choose another plan. But the fact that he chose the rumbling partially is motivated by him protecting his friends, as Jean said in episode 6.

Yes. You need to explain why it's bad considering your going with a plan that opposes the views of almost everyone inside the walls. There are people within these threads that would argue in favor of Eren's plan. Being dismissive of the other side doesn't get you anywhere. Now, let me ask you, why is Eren's plan bad? Just to be clear, I agree with you. I am against it. But if you are able to articulate why, you would have done a better job than Isayama.

Articulate it better than Isayama? He already said it multiple times how a bigger enemy existing wouldn't change how people fight each other, through Erwin, Pixis, Eren, Floch, Kiyomi, and so many people. It's not that it just is a huge loss of life, but the fact that either way, it's meaningless, which Isayama mentioned as far long ago as Trost and as soon as episode 10 of season 4 part 2, that genocide is awful.

No, they don't need a response to how genocide is awful. No amount of Paradisians feeling righteous will change that there's nothing right about genocide.

Ok. Where did Hange say any of this? All she did was claim genocide is bad and the dead would be against (even though we have seen a lot of the military actually being in favor of it. The dead would be no different.

Sorry, I was unclear, what I meant is that Isayama did not articulate this idea through Hange's speech on why she opposed Eren's plan.

Also, I disagree. I don't think you can convince anyone and bring people to your side by just saying genocide is bad. How else would the world learn and move forward if your unwilling to explain why certain ideas are bad?

Dude, genocide is wrong. It doesn't have to be explained. Your literally killing of entire races. Thousands if not millions of innocent people, including children.
Do you really think it needs to be explained why the murder of millions of Children who don't even understand the concept of morality properly, who don't have an ounce of hatred in there heart because they are too young to understand it,is wrong.

Genocide is wrong the way, say r4pe is wrong. It's wrong because it is. Never in a million years will there ever be any circumstances where it has to be explained and justified why it's wrong.

People who are opposed to Genocide should never have to justify their aversion to it. Because it's f*cking Genocide.
It's one of the worst crimes that can be commited against humanity.

I've said this before. You can be in favor of Genocide if you're circumstances are forcing you. Sure.
But aversion to genocide is the natural response.

There are circumstances where genocide and r4pe are justifiable. But anyways, when the majority of people inside the walls are against your idea, how can you dismiss their side and just is bad and expect that to be well written conversation? When Jean is literally on the edge between supporting or opposing Eren's plan, how could you just claim genocide is bad without further explanation?

There are plenty of reasons why genocide in aot world is bad:
1- The world is diverse. There are some nations and people that are not oppressing the Eldians like the black dude's hometown and Mikasa's hometown
2- Eldians also live outside those walls. They are currently being oppressed and Eren would be worsening their pain.
3- putting the sins of the father on the child is a recipe for disaster. And Eren would only reinforce this idea by his plan. So, paradise and the world would still be conflict as Eren just artificially delayed the conflict rather than solve it.
4- from a technological and environmental standpoint, the rumbling is horrible. It would destroy land and corpses would be everywhere. Technology that is necessary for survival like medicine would be set back 100's of years which will greatly effect the health of the living.
...
...
And there are plenty more.

But, why did Hange not incorporate any of this in her speech? That why the writing felt lazy.

Dude all of these things you mentioned are a natural understanding of what Genocide is and why it's wrong. They don't have to be pointed out.

And honestly we just have a fundamental disagreement about incredibly horrendous acts needing justification for bieng opposed as soon as you said that Genocide and r4pe can be justified.
So I'll just have to agree to disagree on this whole conversation. Because dragging it out further literally won't serve any purpose for either of us.

Mar 14, 2022 8:43 PM

#54

Chota_Itachi

Offline

Nov 2021

516

it's just a loud minority so ignore and enjoy

Mar 14, 2022 9:09 PM

#55

Kirishiba

Offline

Feb 2018

129

Seeing Reiner and Annie as the savior of humanity is cringe to watch. Everyone just forgot that they were the ones who lit the fire. That's definitely lazy writing.

They should have been killed or kept outside the final battle. If only the people of paradis were fighting against eren, I would have supported and rooted for them. But just because of alliance, I can't help but support eren.

KirishibaMar 14, 2022 9:15 PM

Mar 14, 2022 11:21 PM

#56

vileoivm12

Offline

Aug 2014

29

Fuhrer_Wrath said:

vileoivm12 said:

Fuhrer_Wrath said:

vileoivm12 said:

racers551 said:

vileoivm12 said:

racers551 said:

vileoivm12 said:
The motivation is fine for the most part, but the way certain motivations are explained to the viewer were pretty bad. For example, Hange's explanation on why she wants to stop Eren is basically non-existent (Saying genocide is bad is not an argument. You need to explain why it's bad in this situation).

... you need to explain why genocide is a bad thing?

Can we agree that Genocide of any kind is stupid?

Jean said clearly that Eren, if he wanted purely Paradis to live, then he'd choose another plan. But the fact that he chose the rumbling partially is motivated by him protecting his friends, as Jean said in episode 6.

Yes. You need to explain why it's bad considering your going with a plan that opposes the views of almost everyone inside the walls. There are people within these threads that would argue in favor of Eren's plan. Being dismissive of the other side doesn't get you anywhere. Now, let me ask you, why is Eren's plan bad? Just to be clear, I agree with you. I am against it. But if you are able to articulate why, you would have done a better job than Isayama.

Articulate it better than Isayama? He already said it multiple times how a bigger enemy existing wouldn't change how people fight each other, through Erwin, Pixis, Eren, Floch, Kiyomi, and so many people. It's not that it just is a huge loss of life, but the fact that either way, it's meaningless, which Isayama mentioned as far long ago as Trost and as soon as episode 10 of season 4 part 2, that genocide is awful.

No, they don't need a response to how genocide is awful. No amount of Paradisians feeling righteous will change that there's nothing right about genocide.

Ok. Where did Hange say any of this? All she did was claim genocide is bad and the dead would be against (even though we have seen a lot of the military actually being in favor of it. The dead would be no different.

Sorry, I was unclear, what I meant is that Isayama did not articulate this idea through Hange's speech on why she opposed Eren's plan.

Also, I disagree. I don't think you can convince anyone and bring people to your side by just saying genocide is bad. How else would the world learn and move forward if your unwilling to explain why certain ideas are bad?

Dude, genocide is wrong. It doesn't have to be explained. Your literally killing of entire races. Thousands if not millions of innocent people, including children.
Do you really think it needs to be explained why the murder of millions of Children who don't even understand the concept of morality properly, who don't have an ounce of hatred in there heart because they are too young to understand it,is wrong.

Genocide is wrong the way, say r4pe is wrong. It's wrong because it is. Never in a million years will there ever be any circumstances where it has to be explained and justified why it's wrong.

People who are opposed to Genocide should never have to justify their aversion to it. Because it's f*cking Genocide.
It's one of the worst crimes that can be commited against humanity.

I've said this before. You can be in favor of Genocide if you're circumstances are forcing you. Sure.
But aversion to genocide is the natural response.

There are circumstances where genocide and r4pe are justifiable. But anyways, when the majority of people inside the walls are against your idea, how can you dismiss their side and just is bad and expect that to be well written conversation? When Jean is literally on the edge between supporting or opposing Eren's plan, how could you just claim genocide is bad without further explanation?

There are plenty of reasons why genocide in aot world is bad:
1- The world is diverse. There are some nations and people that are not oppressing the Eldians like the black dude's hometown and Mikasa's hometown
2- Eldians also live outside those walls. They are currently being oppressed and Eren would be worsening their pain.
3- putting the sins of the father on the child is a recipe for disaster. And Eren would only reinforce this idea by his plan. So, paradise and the world would still be conflict as Eren just artificially delayed the conflict rather than solve it.
4- from a technological and environmental standpoint, the rumbling is horrible. It would destroy land and corpses would be everywhere. Technology that is necessary for survival like medicine would be set back 100's of years which will greatly effect the health of the living.
...
...
And there are plenty more.

But, why did Hange not incorporate any of this in her speech? That why the writing felt lazy.

Dude all of these things you mentioned are a natural understanding of what Genocide is and why it's wrong. They don't have to be pointed out.
N
And honestly we just have a fundamental disagreement about incredibly horrendous acts needing justification for bieng opposed as soon as you said that Genocide and r4pe can be justified.
So I'll just have to agree to disagree on this whole conversation. Because dragging it out further literally won't serve any purpose for either of us.

Well if something is intuitive, you would guess the majority if not everyone would simply agree but that isn't happening. But it does seem that both are in a fundamental disagreement. So agree to disagree.

Mar 14, 2022 11:21 PM

#57