Attack on Titan
Available on Manga Store
New
Mar 14, 2022 1:05 PM
#1
| Full disclosure, I'm a manga reader, but this won't go into any manga spoilers. Hanji established her goals pretty well, she doesn't think anyone in the survey corps would be selfish enough to just leave the people outside the world to be killed, Levi very clearly wants to pay off what he promised Erwin, Armin simply wanted to prevent the genocide of billions, since he never agreed to the full genocide of the world, Connie wants to be the hero his family can be proud of, especially his last living family member, his mother, Jean wants to pay respects to those who died, like Marco, Mikasa wants to stop Eren, and Gabi, Margath, Falco, and Pieck mostly just want their home to be protected. What is lazy about that writing? They're self serving, still, just towards a common goal. It's not that complicated or lazy. It's just simple. They still have conflicts, as Season 4 episode 9 shows, with Jean punching Reiner, reinforcing the idea that even when under a common goal, humanity still fights. None of that is lazy. |
Mar 14, 2022 1:15 PM
#2
| Just because these idiots call it “lazy writing” doesn’t mean it’s true. Most of the time people will say shit like this and completely overthink everything trying to prove their dumb points. Anyone with a shred of humanity knows The Rumbling is an evil act, Hange is literally someone who showed sympathy to standard Titans. Thinking it’s a stretch for her and people under her to not come to the same conclusion is ridiculous. |
Mar 14, 2022 1:18 PM
#3
racers551 said: Full disclosure, I'm a manga reader, but this won't go into any manga spoilers. Hanji established her goals pretty well, she doesn't think anyone in the survey corps would be selfish enough to just leave the people outside the world to be killed, Levi very clearly wants to pay off what he promised Erwin, Armin simply wanted to prevent the genocide of billions, since he never agreed to the full genocide of the world, Connie wants to be the hero his family can be proud of, especially his last living family member, his mother, Jean wants to pay respects to those who died, like Marco, Mikasa wants to stop Eren, and Gabi, Margath, Falco, and Pieck mostly just want their home to be protected. What is lazy about that writing? They're self serving, still, just towards a common goal. It's not that complicated or lazy. It's just simple. They still have conflicts, as Season 4 episode 9 shows, with Jean punching Reiner, reinforcing the idea that even when under a common goal, humanity still fights. None of that is lazy. I have given this answer one of the forum today now i am repeating it again... I am not defending genocide here of course genocide is bad no matter what killing innocent people is always bad.... yeah there might be a chance of civil war if there is only one race....all that stuff okay.. but it is very complicated....if we think it from a prespective of a man who is not living in paradis island of couse this alliance is good for him....they are saving humanity..they are saving innocent people..... but if we think it from prespective of a man who is living in paradis island what he get so a alliance is formed from paradis island people & eldian people to save those who destroyed there wall(episode 1) and where innocent people of paradis island were killed.... they are saving those who were planing to destroy paradis island (Willy tybur speech & gobal alliance ) they are saving those who droved eldian people from mainland hundred years ago and treating left eldian people as their slaves the alliance of paradis island people & eldian people saved those whose children are doing carpet bombing by advance bombers on paradis island and killing innocent people of pardis island (ch. 139.5) despite there parents were saved by the people of paradis island(Eren friends)..... so it is very complicated... So from pradis island prespective what Eren friends are doing is "If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also" |
GreyratAnimelistMar 14, 2022 1:23 PM
Mar 14, 2022 1:28 PM
#4
Harshmyanimelist said: racers551 said: Full disclosure, I'm a manga reader, but this won't go into any manga spoilers. Hanji established her goals pretty well, she doesn't think anyone in the survey corps would be selfish enough to just leave the people outside the world to be killed, Levi very clearly wants to pay off what he promised Erwin, Armin simply wanted to prevent the genocide of billions, since he never agreed to the full genocide of the world, Connie wants to be the hero his family can be proud of, especially his last living family member, his mother, Jean wants to pay respects to those who died, like Marco, Mikasa wants to stop Eren, and Gabi, Margath, Falco, and Pieck mostly just want their home to be protected. What is lazy about that writing? They're self serving, still, just towards a common goal. It's not that complicated or lazy. It's just simple. They still have conflicts, as Season 4 episode 9 shows, with Jean punching Reiner, reinforcing the idea that even when under a common goal, humanity still fights. None of that is lazy. I have given this answer one of the forum today now i am repeating it again... I am not defending genocide here of course genocide is bad no matter what killing innocent people is always bad.... yeah there might be a chance of civil war if there is only one race....all that stuff okay.. but it is very complicated....if we think it from a prespective of a man who is not living in paradis island of couse this alliance is good for him....they are saving humanity..they are saving innocent people..... but if we think it from prespective of a man who is living in paradis island what he get so a alliance is formed from paradis island people & eldian people to save those who destroyed there wall(episode 1) and where innocent people of paradis island were killed.... they are saving those who were planing to destroy paradis island (Willy tybur speech & gobal alliance ) they are saving those who droved eldian people from mainland hundred years ago and treating left eldian people as their slaves the alliance of paradis island people & eldian people saved those whose children are doing carpet bombing by advance bombers on paradis island and killing innocent people of pardis island (ch. 139.5) despite there parents were saved by the people of paradis island(Eren friends)..... so it is very complicated... So from pradis island prespective what Eren friends are doing is "If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also" And they don’t care about who they’re saving, as long as the majority of the world isn’t murdered. Seriously, most of the Final Season has been about how the people in the outside world aren’t devils, so even if 1% of the people outside Paradis were actively trying to destroy Paradis and kill Eldians, 99% of them are ordinary people who were just fed false information. |
Mar 14, 2022 1:33 PM
#5
| Why make a another thread for the same topic which has been made recently? If you wanted to state your opinion then you should have stated there. |
 |
Mar 14, 2022 1:37 PM
#6
| The motivation is fine for the most part, but the way certain motivations are explained to the viewer were pretty bad. For example, Hange's explanation on why she wants to stop Eren is basically non-existent (Saying genocide is bad is not an argument. You need to explain why it's bad in this situation). |
Mar 14, 2022 1:37 PM
#7
Harshmyanimelist said: racers551 said: Full disclosure, I'm a manga reader, but this won't go into any manga spoilers. Hanji established her goals pretty well, she doesn't think anyone in the survey corps would be selfish enough to just leave the people outside the world to be killed, Levi very clearly wants to pay off what he promised Erwin, Armin simply wanted to prevent the genocide of billions, since he never agreed to the full genocide of the world, Connie wants to be the hero his family can be proud of, especially his last living family member, his mother, Jean wants to pay respects to those who died, like Marco, Mikasa wants to stop Eren, and Gabi, Margath, Falco, and Pieck mostly just want their home to be protected. What is lazy about that writing? They're self serving, still, just towards a common goal. It's not that complicated or lazy. It's just simple. They still have conflicts, as Season 4 episode 9 shows, with Jean punching Reiner, reinforcing the idea that even when under a common goal, humanity still fights. None of that is lazy. I have given this answer one of the forum today now i am repeating it again... I am not defending genocide here of course genocide is bad no matter what killing innocent people is always bad.... yeah there might be a chance of civil war if there is only one race....all that stuff okay.. but it is very complicated....if we think it from a prespective of a man who is not living in paradis island of couse this alliance is good for him....they are saving humanity..they are saving innocent people..... but if we think it from prespective of a man who is living in paradis island what he get so a alliance is formed from paradis island people & eldian people to save those who destroyed there wall(episode 1) and where innocent people of paradis island were killed.... they are saving those who were planing to destroy paradis island (Willy tybur speech & gobal alliance ) they are saving those who droved eldian people from mainland hundred years ago and treating left eldian people as their slaves the alliance of paradis island people & eldian people saved those whose children are doing carpet bombing by advance bombers on paradis island and killing innocent people of pardis island (ch. 139.5) despite there parents were saved by the people of paradis island(Eren friends)..... so it is very complicated... So from pradis island prespective what Eren friends are doing is "If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also" This argument would be true if Eren was just genociding Marley. Remember everything that Paradis suffered was because of Marley. They are the one's who had Titan shifters. And they are the one's who sent titans to the island. And yet Eren is killing the whole world. Including people like the Huzuru, who tried to help Paradis, Onyokopon's people who themselves were under Marley's subjugation and the Turkish refugees in Marley. Who themselves had lost everything. Now this does not mean that you have to support the alliance. But it's understandable that someone from Paradis who has always strived to save "humanity" who finds out the truth and still against going to war against the world or commit immoral acts in the name of war. Would not agree with Eren to kill millions of innocent people. Also I know this is going to sound petty. But in my opinion the extra pages don't really prove anything. They literally just show one page of one city bieng bombarded with out any context. We don't know who is doing the bombardment, or why or even if that more that one city is bieng bombarded. It could have easily been a result of a Civil War on Paradis resulting in the bombardment of one city. There is literally no way of knowing. |
Mar 14, 2022 1:39 PM
#8
| I feel like people like you see like one person say it's "lazy writing" and get extremely triggered and make a post to make it seem like alot of people are saying that bc I literally never seen someone say this lmao |
Mar 14, 2022 1:39 PM
#9
| I’ve never really had a problem with this but it’s just kind of convenient that all the main characters are the ones who are against the rumbling while every other character we see who doesn’t matter is in favor of it it’s completely a nitpick though and it doesn’t matter I don’t know why this is something people get angry about when there is already plenty of other aspects about the final arc to be angry about |
Mar 14, 2022 1:50 PM
#10
racers551 said: Full disclosure, I'm a manga reader, but this won't go into any manga spoilers. Hanji established her goals pretty well, she doesn't think anyone in the survey corps would be selfish enough to just leave the people outside the world to be killed, Levi very clearly wants to pay off what he promised Erwin, Armin simply wanted to prevent the genocide of billions, since he never agreed to the full genocide of the world, Connie wants to be the hero his family can be proud of, especially his last living family member, his mother, Jean wants to pay respects to those who died, like Marco, Mikasa wants to stop Eren, and Gabi, Margath, Falco, and Pieck mostly just want their home to be protected. What is lazy about that writing? They're self serving, still, just towards a common goal. It's not that complicated or lazy. It's just simple. They still have conflicts, as Season 4 episode 9 shows, with Jean punching Reiner, reinforcing the idea that even when under a common goal, humanity still fights. None of that is lazy. Honestly, the "pay respect to the dead" is not convincing. Almost everyone is against the alliance. Also, every scout we have seen thus far has been in favor of Eren's plan except for the main cast. I can't see why that would be different to the dead. |
Mar 14, 2022 1:52 PM
#11
Harshmyanimelist said: racers551 said: Full disclosure, I'm a manga reader, but this won't go into any manga spoilers. Hanji established her goals pretty well, she doesn't think anyone in the survey corps would be selfish enough to just leave the people outside the world to be killed, Levi very clearly wants to pay off what he promised Erwin, Armin simply wanted to prevent the genocide of billions, since he never agreed to the full genocide of the world, Connie wants to be the hero his family can be proud of, especially his last living family member, his mother, Jean wants to pay respects to those who died, like Marco, Mikasa wants to stop Eren, and Gabi, Margath, Falco, and Pieck mostly just want their home to be protected. What is lazy about that writing? They're self serving, still, just towards a common goal. It's not that complicated or lazy. It's just simple. They still have conflicts, as Season 4 episode 9 shows, with Jean punching Reiner, reinforcing the idea that even when under a common goal, humanity still fights. None of that is lazy. I have given this answer one of the forum today now i am repeating it again... I am not defending genocide here of course genocide is bad no matter what killing innocent people is always bad.... yeah there might be a chance of civil war if there is only one race....all that stuff okay.. but it is very complicated....if we think it from a prespective of a man who is not living in paradis island of couse this alliance is good for him....they are saving humanity..they are saving innocent people..... but if we think it from prespective of a man who is living in paradis island what he get so a alliance is formed from paradis island people & eldian people to save those who destroyed there wall(episode 1) and where innocent people of paradis island were killed.... they are saving those who were planing to destroy paradis island (Willy tybur speech & gobal alliance ) they are saving those who droved eldian people from mainland hundred years ago and treating left eldian people as their slaves the alliance of paradis island people & eldian people saved those whose children are doing carpet bombing by advance bombers on paradis island and killing innocent people of pardis island (ch. 139.5) despite there parents were saved by the people of paradis island(Eren friends)..... so it is very complicated... So from pradis island prespective what Eren friends are doing is "If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also" ... No, there's just more options beyond the genocide of billions. Jean says this, with the 50 year plan and the euthunasia plan. |
Mar 14, 2022 1:53 PM
#12
vileoivm12 said: racers551 said: Full disclosure, I'm a manga reader, but this won't go into any manga spoilers. Hanji established her goals pretty well, she doesn't think anyone in the survey corps would be selfish enough to just leave the people outside the world to be killed, Levi very clearly wants to pay off what he promised Erwin, Armin simply wanted to prevent the genocide of billions, since he never agreed to the full genocide of the world, Connie wants to be the hero his family can be proud of, especially his last living family member, his mother, Jean wants to pay respects to those who died, like Marco, Mikasa wants to stop Eren, and Gabi, Margath, Falco, and Pieck mostly just want their home to be protected. What is lazy about that writing? They're self serving, still, just towards a common goal. It's not that complicated or lazy. It's just simple. They still have conflicts, as Season 4 episode 9 shows, with Jean punching Reiner, reinforcing the idea that even when under a common goal, humanity still fights. None of that is lazy. Honestly, the "pay respect to the dead" is not convincing. Almost everyone is against the alliance. Also, every scout we have seen thus far has been in favor of Eren's plan except for the main cast. I can't see why that would be different to the dead. Most of the military aren't against the alliance. Look at episode 7. |
Mar 14, 2022 1:59 PM
#13
vileoivm12 said: racers551 said: Full disclosure, I'm a manga reader, but this won't go into any manga spoilers. Hanji established her goals pretty well, she doesn't think anyone in the survey corps would be selfish enough to just leave the people outside the world to be killed, Levi very clearly wants to pay off what he promised Erwin, Armin simply wanted to prevent the genocide of billions, since he never agreed to the full genocide of the world, Connie wants to be the hero his family can be proud of, especially his last living family member, his mother, Jean wants to pay respects to those who died, like Marco, Mikasa wants to stop Eren, and Gabi, Margath, Falco, and Pieck mostly just want their home to be protected. What is lazy about that writing? They're self serving, still, just towards a common goal. It's not that complicated or lazy. It's just simple. They still have conflicts, as Season 4 episode 9 shows, with Jean punching Reiner, reinforcing the idea that even when under a common goal, humanity still fights. None of that is lazy. Honestly, the "pay respect to the dead" is not convincing. Almost everyone is against the alliance. Also, every scout we have seen thus far has been in favor of Eren's plan except for the main cast. I can't see why that would be different to the dead. Not to mention, Samuel and Daz haven't gotten their hands dirty the same way most of the cast has. |
Mar 14, 2022 2:02 PM
#14
| The problem is not them opposing the rumbling the problem is that their motivation for it is whack, some super hero shit, the world fully intends to wipe them out of existence and has done so since decades so them wanting to save the world is nonsense from what we’ve seen so far especially that they are killing their own people in the process and teaming with their biggest enemies, the idea is not what’s lazy but it comes out as lazy because it seems rushed and not fleshed out. |
Mar 14, 2022 2:15 PM
#15
| It's more about disliking the direction of the story as a whole than just disliking the alliance. Ever since the time skip when Eren's actions started to be in conflict with the rest of the scouts, it was painfully obvious that Eren would become the big bad and the rest will team up to stop him. Perhaps it was stupid to expect something from this story, but I've accepted that ever since the manga ended. |
Mar 14, 2022 2:18 PM
#16
racers551 said: vileoivm12 said: racers551 said: Full disclosure, I'm a manga reader, but this won't go into any manga spoilers. Hanji established her goals pretty well, she doesn't think anyone in the survey corps would be selfish enough to just leave the people outside the world to be killed, Levi very clearly wants to pay off what he promised Erwin, Armin simply wanted to prevent the genocide of billions, since he never agreed to the full genocide of the world, Connie wants to be the hero his family can be proud of, especially his last living family member, his mother, Jean wants to pay respects to those who died, like Marco, Mikasa wants to stop Eren, and Gabi, Margath, Falco, and Pieck mostly just want their home to be protected. What is lazy about that writing? They're self serving, still, just towards a common goal. It's not that complicated or lazy. It's just simple. They still have conflicts, as Season 4 episode 9 shows, with Jean punching Reiner, reinforcing the idea that even when under a common goal, humanity still fights. None of that is lazy. Honestly, the "pay respect to the dead" is not convincing. Almost everyone is against the alliance. Also, every scout we have seen thus far has been in favor of Eren's plan except for the main cast. I can't see why that would be different to the dead. Most of the military aren't against the alliance. Look at episode 7. From what I remember, the military opposed the Yeagerist and their attempt to overtake the government. They were also angry at the destruction Eren is causing inside the walls. No discussion of how bad Eren's genocide plan took place where the military were against it unless I missed it during my viewing. |
Mar 14, 2022 2:19 PM
#17
vileoivm12 said: The motivation is fine for the most part, but the way certain motivations are explained to the viewer were pretty bad. For example, Hange's explanation on why she wants to stop Eren is basically non-existent (Saying genocide is bad is not an argument. You need to explain why it's bad in this situation). ... you need to explain why genocide is a bad thing? Can we agree that Genocide of any kind is stupid? Jean said clearly that Eren, if he wanted purely Paradis to live, then he'd choose another plan. But the fact that he chose the rumbling partially is motivated by him protecting his friends, as Jean said in episode 6. |
Mar 14, 2022 2:19 PM
#18
TheFounder131 said: Why make a another thread for the same topic which has been made recently? If you wanted to state your opinion then you should have stated there. Stated it there? Where? I just said it here. Why does it matter? |
Mar 14, 2022 2:20 PM
#19
Kasutoro-Kun said: I feel like people like you see like one person say it's "lazy writing" and get extremely triggered and make a post to make it seem like alot of people are saying that bc I literally never seen someone say this lmao ... Are you sure? Look at the above comments. |
Mar 14, 2022 2:22 PM
#20
racers551 said: Kasutoro-Kun said: I feel like people like you see like one person say it's "lazy writing" and get extremely triggered and make a post to make it seem like alot of people are saying that bc I literally never seen someone say this lmao ... Are you sure? Look at the above comments. I looked no one is saying it's lazy writing they just personally don't like the direction of the story |
Mar 14, 2022 2:23 PM
#21
PMJ11 said: I’ve never really had a problem with this but it’s just kind of convenient that all the main characters are the ones who are against the rumbling while every other character we see who doesn’t matter is in favor of it it’s completely a nitpick though and it doesn’t matter I don’t know why this is something people get angry about when there is already plenty of other aspects about the final arc to be angry about Hitch? She's not in favor of it. Eren, the main character, obviously is in favor of it. So that's kind of moot. They're not convienient. Reiner literally has to save his home, with Gabi and Falco and Margath. Hanji has been struggling with morality throughout season 4, as well as Armin. Jean has as well, hence why he hestiated to kill Falco. They've been all struggling with morality since the end of the Marley arc. |
Mar 14, 2022 2:25 PM
#22
mk_tb said: The problem is not them opposing the rumbling the problem is that their motivation for it is whack, some super hero shit, the world fully intends to wipe them out of existence and has done so since decades so them wanting to save the world is nonsense from what we’ve seen so far especially that they are killing their own people in the process and teaming with their biggest enemies, the idea is not what’s lazy but it comes out as lazy because it seems rushed and not fleshed out. Only Connie has that motivation. Hanji and Armin are not Connie. They've been struggling with the morality of their actions since Marley. Connie just had to finish what he started, breaching that morality he sought to keep, in order to fulfill his greater goal, to be that hero to his mother. |
Mar 14, 2022 2:27 PM
#23
racers551 said: vileoivm12 said: The motivation is fine for the most part, but the way certain motivations are explained to the viewer were pretty bad. For example, Hange's explanation on why she wants to stop Eren is basically non-existent (Saying genocide is bad is not an argument. You need to explain why it's bad in this situation). ... you need to explain why genocide is a bad thing? Can we agree that Genocide of any kind is stupid? Jean said clearly that Eren, if he wanted purely Paradis to live, then he'd choose another plan. But the fact that he chose the rumbling partially is motivated by him protecting his friends, as Jean said in episode 6. Yes. You need to explain why it's bad considering your going with a plan that opposes the views of almost everyone inside the walls. There are people within these threads that would argue in favor of Eren's plan. Being dismissive of the other side doesn't get you anywhere. Now, let me ask you, why is Eren's plan bad? Just to be clear, I agree with you. I am against it. But if you are able to articulate why, you would have done a better job than Isayama. |
Mar 14, 2022 2:29 PM
#24
Advide said: It's more about disliking the direction of the story as a whole than just disliking the alliance. Ever since the time skip when Eren's actions started to be in conflict with the rest of the scouts, it was painfully obvious that Eren would become the big bad and the rest will team up to stop him. Perhaps it was stupid to expect something from this story, but I've accepted that ever since the manga ended. What? Eren is planning on killing a lot of people, I don't see why people would be against this way, where our characters have to struggle with killing the protagonist, in order for a greater good. That's, imo, a great concept, and it shows how, unlike Annie, Reiner, and Bertholdt, who are still great characters, but they're not protagonists. Eren is the protagonist, and the conflict where they'll have to pull the trigger, and far they'll be tested is something that's done well. |
Mar 14, 2022 2:30 PM
#25
vileoivm12 said: racers551 said: vileoivm12 said: racers551 said: Full disclosure, I'm a manga reader, but this won't go into any manga spoilers. Hanji established her goals pretty well, she doesn't think anyone in the survey corps would be selfish enough to just leave the people outside the world to be killed, Levi very clearly wants to pay off what he promised Erwin, Armin simply wanted to prevent the genocide of billions, since he never agreed to the full genocide of the world, Connie wants to be the hero his family can be proud of, especially his last living family member, his mother, Jean wants to pay respects to those who died, like Marco, Mikasa wants to stop Eren, and Gabi, Margath, Falco, and Pieck mostly just want their home to be protected. What is lazy about that writing? They're self serving, still, just towards a common goal. It's not that complicated or lazy. It's just simple. They still have conflicts, as Season 4 episode 9 shows, with Jean punching Reiner, reinforcing the idea that even when under a common goal, humanity still fights. None of that is lazy. Honestly, the "pay respect to the dead" is not convincing. Almost everyone is against the alliance. Also, every scout we have seen thus far has been in favor of Eren's plan except for the main cast. I can't see why that would be different to the dead. Most of the military aren't against the alliance. Look at episode 7. From what I remember, the military opposed the Yeagerist and their attempt to overtake the government. They were also angry at the destruction Eren is causing inside the walls. No discussion of how bad Eren's genocide plan took place where the military were against it unless I missed it during my viewing. There's more than just the military, the civilian population themselves are conflicted, as 125/episode 7 have shown. |
Mar 14, 2022 2:31 PM
#26
| Ppl are overreacting ig, the whole eren needs to be stopped started to develop way back after the Marley arc was finished, but they consider the formation and the whole execution of the alliance to be limited to ch126-128, which are, obviously not the best chapters in aot (126 in particular was really controversial in the manga and just a bit better in the anime) I've been saying ppl the exact thing you're trying to point here, half of the alliance are Marleyans, from other countries or liberio's eldians who very normally want to defend their homes and families wtf is wrong with them? And at least Armin and hange have good reasons to stop eren(Armin was always a like this character and he thinks if Erwin was still alive he would do anything to save humanity, ofc the ppl outside the walls are of humanity) Now the uniting of paradise and rest of the world's ppl is not properly executed in the manga but even then it's not lazy or terrible writing, idk what some fans expected to happen? Like them having a fight between them when they can't even waste a single second and don't even know have exactly should they stop eren? Overall, it seems like the only characters they see in the series is eren and paradise ppl, while there are about, 2b living outside the walls? The ppl in paradise actually aren't that especial, they're like everyone else it's just that the show focused on them and their hardships, so why SHOULD all the other humans die just so they can live? I get it actually and I think what eren wants to do is needed but should everyone else sit on their asses even if rumbling is in their favour? The answer is complicated tbh |
Mar 14, 2022 2:31 PM
#27
Kasutoro-Kun said: racers551 said: Kasutoro-Kun said: I feel like people like you see like one person say it's "lazy writing" and get extremely triggered and make a post to make it seem like alot of people are saying that bc I literally never seen someone say this lmao ... Are you sure? Look at the above comments. I looked no one is saying it's lazy writing they just personally don't like the direction of the story Huh? Most of the people responding to it have said it's lazy writing. |
Mar 14, 2022 2:32 PM
#28
racers551 said: Kasutoro-Kun said: racers551 said: Kasutoro-Kun said: I feel like people like you see like one person say it's "lazy writing" and get extremely triggered and make a post to make it seem like alot of people are saying that bc I literally never seen someone say this lmao ... Are you sure? Look at the above comments. I looked no one is saying it's lazy writing they just personally don't like the direction of the story Huh? Most of the people responding to it have said it's lazy writing. Literally not a single person said it's lazy writing 😂 I just looked at all the comments people just personally don't like the direction of the story that don't mean people think it's lazy writing. You can't just look at what people say and put words in their mouth like that. |
Mar 14, 2022 2:33 PM
#29
vileoivm12 said: racers551 said: vileoivm12 said: The motivation is fine for the most part, but the way certain motivations are explained to the viewer were pretty bad. For example, Hange's explanation on why she wants to stop Eren is basically non-existent (Saying genocide is bad is not an argument. You need to explain why it's bad in this situation). ... you need to explain why genocide is a bad thing? Can we agree that Genocide of any kind is stupid? Jean said clearly that Eren, if he wanted purely Paradis to live, then he'd choose another plan. But the fact that he chose the rumbling partially is motivated by him protecting his friends, as Jean said in episode 6. Yes. You need to explain why it's bad considering your going with a plan that opposes the views of almost everyone inside the walls. There are people within these threads that would argue in favor of Eren's plan. Being dismissive of the other side doesn't get you anywhere. Now, let me ask you, why is Eren's plan bad? Just to be clear, I agree with you. I am against it. But if you are able to articulate why, you would have done a better job than Isayama. Articulate it better than Isayama? He already said it multiple times how a bigger enemy existing wouldn't change how people fight each other, through Erwin, Pixis, Eren, Floch, Kiyomi, and so many people. It's not that it just is a huge loss of life, but the fact that either way, it's meaningless, which Isayama mentioned as far long ago as Trost and as soon as episode 10 of season 4 part 2, that genocide is awful. No, they don't need a response to how genocide is awful. No amount of Paradisians feeling righteous will change that there's nothing right about genocide. |
Mar 14, 2022 2:34 PM
#30
vileoivm12 said: racers551 said: vileoivm12 said: The motivation is fine for the most part, but the way certain motivations are explained to the viewer were pretty bad. For example, Hange's explanation on why she wants to stop Eren is basically non-existent (Saying genocide is bad is not an argument. You need to explain why it's bad in this situation). ... you need to explain why genocide is a bad thing? Can we agree that Genocide of any kind is stupid? Jean said clearly that Eren, if he wanted purely Paradis to live, then he'd choose another plan. But the fact that he chose the rumbling partially is motivated by him protecting his friends, as Jean said in episode 6. Yes. You need to explain why it's bad considering your going with a plan that opposes the views of almost everyone inside the walls. There are people within these threads that would argue in favor of Eren's plan. Being dismissive of the other side doesn't get you anywhere. Now, let me ask you, why is Eren's plan bad? Just to be clear, I agree with you. I am against it. But if you are able to articulate why, you would have done a better job than Isayama. Articulate it better than Isayama? He already said it multiple times how a bigger enemy existing wouldn't change how people fight each other, through Erwin, Pixis, Eren, Floch, Kiyomi, and so many people. It's not that it just is a huge loss of life, but the fact that either way, it's meaningless, which Isayama mentioned as far long ago as Trost and as soon as episode 10 of season 4 part 2, that genocide is awful. No, they don't need a response to how genocide is awful. No amount of Paradisians feeling righteous will change that there's nothing right about genocide. |
Mar 14, 2022 2:35 PM
#31
Kasutoro-Kun said: racers551 said: Kasutoro-Kun said: racers551 said: Kasutoro-Kun said: I feel like people like you see like one person say it's "lazy writing" and get extremely triggered and make a post to make it seem like alot of people are saying that bc I literally never seen someone say this lmao ... Are you sure? Look at the above comments. I looked no one is saying it's lazy writing they just personally don't like the direction of the story Huh? Most of the people responding to it have said it's lazy writing. Literally not a single person said it's lazy writing 😂 I just looked at all the comments people just personally don't like the direction of the story that don't mean people think it's lazy writing. You can't just look at what people say and put words in their mouth like that. Read this, then. https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=2000969 |
Mar 14, 2022 2:37 PM
#32
racers551 said: Kasutoro-Kun said: racers551 said: Kasutoro-Kun said: racers551 said: Kasutoro-Kun said: I feel like people like you see like one person say it's "lazy writing" and get extremely triggered and make a post to make it seem like alot of people are saying that bc I literally never seen someone say this lmao ... Are you sure? Look at the above comments. I looked no one is saying it's lazy writing they just personally don't like the direction of the story Huh? Most of the people responding to it have said it's lazy writing. Literally not a single person said it's lazy writing 😂 I just looked at all the comments people just personally don't like the direction of the story that don't mean people think it's lazy writing. You can't just look at what people say and put words in their mouth like that. Read this, then. https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=2000969 1. You linked me a completely different forum 😂 we're talking about the people in this forum 2. Most of the people who responded literally say they don't think it's lazy writing they literally just don't like the way the show is going about things. |
Mar 14, 2022 2:39 PM
#33
racers551 said: vileoivm12 said: racers551 said: vileoivm12 said: racers551 said: Full disclosure, I'm a manga reader, but this won't go into any manga spoilers. Hanji established her goals pretty well, she doesn't think anyone in the survey corps would be selfish enough to just leave the people outside the world to be killed, Levi very clearly wants to pay off what he promised Erwin, Armin simply wanted to prevent the genocide of billions, since he never agreed to the full genocide of the world, Connie wants to be the hero his family can be proud of, especially his last living family member, his mother, Jean wants to pay respects to those who died, like Marco, Mikasa wants to stop Eren, and Gabi, Margath, Falco, and Pieck mostly just want their home to be protected. What is lazy about that writing? They're self serving, still, just towards a common goal. It's not that complicated or lazy. It's just simple. They still have conflicts, as Season 4 episode 9 shows, with Jean punching Reiner, reinforcing the idea that even when under a common goal, humanity still fights. None of that is lazy. Honestly, the "pay respect to the dead" is not convincing. Almost everyone is against the alliance. Also, every scout we have seen thus far has been in favor of Eren's plan except for the main cast. I can't see why that would be different to the dead. Most of the military aren't against the alliance. Look at episode 7. From what I remember, the military opposed the Yeagerist and their attempt to overtake the government. They were also angry at the destruction Eren is causing inside the walls. No discussion of how bad Eren's genocide plan took place where the military were against it unless I missed it during my viewing. There's more than just the military, the civilian population themselves are conflicted, as 125/episode 7 have shown. I just skimmed through the episode. I didn't see a single civilian being against the rumbling because of genocide. Or because of the innocent lives being killed outside of the wall. All I have seen is civilians being justifiably upset that Eren's destroyed their house or killed their loved ones. That means there is no indication that they would be against Eren's plan now since the titan's have already gone outside the walls. |
Mar 14, 2022 2:40 PM
#34
racers551 said: mk_tb said: The problem is not them opposing the rumbling the problem is that their motivation for it is whack, some super hero shit, the world fully intends to wipe them out of existence and has done so since decades so them wanting to save the world is nonsense from what we’ve seen so far especially that they are killing their own people in the process and teaming with their biggest enemies, the idea is not what’s lazy but it comes out as lazy because it seems rushed and not fleshed out. Only Connie has that motivation. Hanji and Armin are not Connie. They've been struggling with the morality of their actions since Marley. Connie just had to finish what he started, breaching that morality he sought to keep, in order to fulfill his greater goal, to be that hero to his mother. Well i have to respectfully disagree all of them have that same motive from what i’ve seen even in your og post none of your points make sense jean wants to pay respect for the ones who died, by saving the world??? How exactly does this work,mikasa wants to stop eren, well then why ??? Hange does not thinks the scouts would be so selfish huh?? I’m pretty sure none of the fallen scouts would want to team with the people that killed them and make them friends and help them kill the people of paradise |
Mar 14, 2022 2:51 PM
#35
racers551 said: vileoivm12 said: racers551 said: vileoivm12 said: The motivation is fine for the most part, but the way certain motivations are explained to the viewer were pretty bad. For example, Hange's explanation on why she wants to stop Eren is basically non-existent (Saying genocide is bad is not an argument. You need to explain why it's bad in this situation). ... you need to explain why genocide is a bad thing? Can we agree that Genocide of any kind is stupid? Jean said clearly that Eren, if he wanted purely Paradis to live, then he'd choose another plan. But the fact that he chose the rumbling partially is motivated by him protecting his friends, as Jean said in episode 6. Yes. You need to explain why it's bad considering your going with a plan that opposes the views of almost everyone inside the walls. There are people within these threads that would argue in favor of Eren's plan. Being dismissive of the other side doesn't get you anywhere. Now, let me ask you, why is Eren's plan bad? Just to be clear, I agree with you. I am against it. But if you are able to articulate why, you would have done a better job than Isayama. Articulate it better than Isayama? He already said it multiple times how a bigger enemy existing wouldn't change how people fight each other, through Erwin, Pixis, Eren, Floch, Kiyomi, and so many people. It's not that it just is a huge loss of life, but the fact that either way, it's meaningless, which Isayama mentioned as far long ago as Trost and as soon as episode 10 of season 4 part 2, that genocide is awful. No, they don't need a response to how genocide is awful. No amount of Paradisians feeling righteous will change that there's nothing right about genocide. Ok. Where did Hange say any of this? All she did was claim genocide is bad and the dead would be against (even though we have seen a lot of the military actually being in favor of it. The dead would be no different. Sorry, I was unclear, what I meant is that Isayama did not articulate this idea through Hange's speech on why she opposed Eren's plan. Also, I disagree. I don't think you can convince anyone and bring people to your side by just saying genocide is bad. How else would the world learn and move forward if your unwilling to explain why certain ideas are bad? |
Mar 14, 2022 2:55 PM
#36
vileoivm12 said: racers551 said: vileoivm12 said: racers551 said: vileoivm12 said: racers551 said: Full disclosure, I'm a manga reader, but this won't go into any manga spoilers. Hanji established her goals pretty well, she doesn't think anyone in the survey corps would be selfish enough to just leave the people outside the world to be killed, Levi very clearly wants to pay off what he promised Erwin, Armin simply wanted to prevent the genocide of billions, since he never agreed to the full genocide of the world, Connie wants to be the hero his family can be proud of, especially his last living family member, his mother, Jean wants to pay respects to those who died, like Marco, Mikasa wants to stop Eren, and Gabi, Margath, Falco, and Pieck mostly just want their home to be protected. What is lazy about that writing? They're self serving, still, just towards a common goal. It's not that complicated or lazy. It's just simple. They still have conflicts, as Season 4 episode 9 shows, with Jean punching Reiner, reinforcing the idea that even when under a common goal, humanity still fights. None of that is lazy. Honestly, the "pay respect to the dead" is not convincing. Almost everyone is against the alliance. Also, every scout we have seen thus far has been in favor of Eren's plan except for the main cast. I can't see why that would be different to the dead. Most of the military aren't against the alliance. Look at episode 7. From what I remember, the military opposed the Yeagerist and their attempt to overtake the government. They were also angry at the destruction Eren is causing inside the walls. No discussion of how bad Eren's genocide plan took place where the military were against it unless I missed it during my viewing. There's more than just the military, the civilian population themselves are conflicted, as 125/episode 7 have shown. I just skimmed through the episode. I didn't see a single civilian being against the rumbling because of genocide. Or because of the innocent lives being killed outside of the wall. All I have seen is civilians being justifiably upset that Eren's destroyed their house or killed their loved ones. That means there is no indication that they would be against Eren's plan now since the titan's have already gone outside the walls. I mean, to be fair, what can most of them do about it? They don't have the same level of knowledge about it. |
Mar 14, 2022 2:56 PM
#37
racers551 said: Full disclosure, I'm a manga reader, but this won't go into any manga spoilers. Hanji established her goals pretty well, she doesn't think anyone in the survey corps would be selfish enough to just leave the people outside the world to be killed, Levi very clearly wants to pay off what he promised Erwin, Armin simply wanted to prevent the genocide of billions, since he never agreed to the full genocide of the world, Connie wants to be the hero his family can be proud of, especially his last living family member, his mother, Jean wants to pay respects to those who died, like Marco, Mikasa wants to stop Eren, and Gabi, Margath, Falco, and Pieck mostly just want their home to be protected. What is lazy about that writing? They're self serving, still, just towards a common goal. It's not that complicated or lazy. It's just simple. They still have conflicts, as Season 4 episode 9 shows, with Jean punching Reiner, reinforcing the idea that even when under a common goal, humanity still fights. None of that is lazy. It's probably just people that don't care about aot and probably haven't seen it for themselves to get an opinion on it. Tbh if you don't like aot and you've seen it I'm not gonna judge you. |
Mar 14, 2022 2:59 PM
#38
mk_tb said: racers551 said: mk_tb said: The problem is not them opposing the rumbling the problem is that their motivation for it is whack, some super hero shit, the world fully intends to wipe them out of existence and has done so since decades so them wanting to save the world is nonsense from what we’ve seen so far especially that they are killing their own people in the process and teaming with their biggest enemies, the idea is not what’s lazy but it comes out as lazy because it seems rushed and not fleshed out. Only Connie has that motivation. Hanji and Armin are not Connie. They've been struggling with the morality of their actions since Marley. Connie just had to finish what he started, breaching that morality he sought to keep, in order to fulfill his greater goal, to be that hero to his mother. Well i have to respectfully disagree all of them have that same motive from what i’ve seen even in your og post none of your points make sense jean wants to pay respect for the ones who died, by saving the world??? How exactly does this work,mikasa wants to stop eren, well then why ??? Hange does not thinks the scouts would be so selfish huh?? I’m pretty sure none of the fallen scouts would want to team with the people that killed them and make them friends and help them kill the people of paradise Because neither Marco nor any of those who died would just be fine dying for the rumbling to happen? Mikasa wants to stop Eren because she doesn't want the Genocide of billions? Also, what? Erwin teamed up with anyone who would advance their power/advance to their goals. It's not as if Erwin and Pixis were on the best of terms. In fact, Pixis admitted if Paradis had stepped to the plate, he would have let Erwin be executed. But they teamed up regardless, in order to satisfy their goals. |
Mar 14, 2022 3:08 PM
#39
racers551 said: mk_tb said: racers551 said: mk_tb said: The problem is not them opposing the rumbling the problem is that their motivation for it is whack, some super hero shit, the world fully intends to wipe them out of existence and has done so since decades so them wanting to save the world is nonsense from what we’ve seen so far especially that they are killing their own people in the process and teaming with their biggest enemies, the idea is not what’s lazy but it comes out as lazy because it seems rushed and not fleshed out. Only Connie has that motivation. Hanji and Armin are not Connie. They've been struggling with the morality of their actions since Marley. Connie just had to finish what he started, breaching that morality he sought to keep, in order to fulfill his greater goal, to be that hero to his mother. Well i have to respectfully disagree all of them have that same motive from what i’ve seen even in your og post none of your points make sense jean wants to pay respect for the ones who died, by saving the world??? How exactly does this work,mikasa wants to stop eren, well then why ??? Hange does not thinks the scouts would be so selfish huh?? I’m pretty sure none of the fallen scouts would want to team with the people that killed them and make them friends and help them kill the people of paradise Because neither Marco nor any of those who died would just be fine dying for the rumbling to happen? Mikasa wants to stop Eren because she doesn't want the Genocide of billions? Also, what? Erwin teamed up with anyone who would advance their power/advance to their goals. It's not as if Erwin and Pixis were on the best of terms. In fact, Pixis admitted if Paradis had stepped to the plate, he would have let Erwin be executed. But they teamed up regardless, in order to satisfy their goals. And neither marco nor anyone who died would die so that the people of paradise die i mean are you even listening to yourself and since when does mikasa give a shit about the people and about the world, 2 episodes ago she ripped the scarf out of her dying comrade like a damn android with no emotions and now 2 episodes later she cares so much about the world wow and again your proving my original point that most of them have the same wack motive, to save the world and hopefully die 2 days later when the world attacks a defenseless paradise |
Mar 14, 2022 3:10 PM
#40
vileoivm12 said: racers551 said: vileoivm12 said: racers551 said: vileoivm12 said: The motivation is fine for the most part, but the way certain motivations are explained to the viewer were pretty bad. For example, Hange's explanation on why she wants to stop Eren is basically non-existent (Saying genocide is bad is not an argument. You need to explain why it's bad in this situation). ... you need to explain why genocide is a bad thing? Can we agree that Genocide of any kind is stupid? Jean said clearly that Eren, if he wanted purely Paradis to live, then he'd choose another plan. But the fact that he chose the rumbling partially is motivated by him protecting his friends, as Jean said in episode 6. Yes. You need to explain why it's bad considering your going with a plan that opposes the views of almost everyone inside the walls. There are people within these threads that would argue in favor of Eren's plan. Being dismissive of the other side doesn't get you anywhere. Now, let me ask you, why is Eren's plan bad? Just to be clear, I agree with you. I am against it. But if you are able to articulate why, you would have done a better job than Isayama. Articulate it better than Isayama? He already said it multiple times how a bigger enemy existing wouldn't change how people fight each other, through Erwin, Pixis, Eren, Floch, Kiyomi, and so many people. It's not that it just is a huge loss of life, but the fact that either way, it's meaningless, which Isayama mentioned as far long ago as Trost and as soon as episode 10 of season 4 part 2, that genocide is awful. No, they don't need a response to how genocide is awful. No amount of Paradisians feeling righteous will change that there's nothing right about genocide. Ok. Where did Hange say any of this? All she did was claim genocide is bad and the dead would be against (even though we have seen a lot of the military actually being in favor of it. The dead would be no different. Sorry, I was unclear, what I meant is that Isayama did not articulate this idea through Hange's speech on why she opposed Eren's plan. Also, I disagree. I don't think you can convince anyone and bring people to your side by just saying genocide is bad. How else would the world learn and move forward if your unwilling to explain why certain ideas are bad? The dead would be different? It's not as if eldians were given much of an option to the Genocide, or at least it not happening. Erwin, for example, wouldn't have supported a rumbling based on his actions in uprising. Meanwhile, people like Floch are killing anyone who seems to resist, like Onyakopon and Yelena, so any kind of rebellion would be undermined. |
Mar 14, 2022 3:10 PM
#41
racers551 said: vileoivm12 said: racers551 said: vileoivm12 said: racers551 said: vileoivm12 said: racers551 said: Full disclosure, I'm a manga reader, but this won't go into any manga spoilers. Hanji established her goals pretty well, she doesn't think anyone in the survey corps would be selfish enough to just leave the people outside the world to be killed, Levi very clearly wants to pay off what he promised Erwin, Armin simply wanted to prevent the genocide of billions, since he never agreed to the full genocide of the world, Connie wants to be the hero his family can be proud of, especially his last living family member, his mother, Jean wants to pay respects to those who died, like Marco, Mikasa wants to stop Eren, and Gabi, Margath, Falco, and Pieck mostly just want their home to be protected. What is lazy about that writing? They're self serving, still, just towards a common goal. It's not that complicated or lazy. It's just simple. They still have conflicts, as Season 4 episode 9 shows, with Jean punching Reiner, reinforcing the idea that even when under a common goal, humanity still fights. None of that is lazy. Honestly, the "pay respect to the dead" is not convincing. Almost everyone is against the alliance. Also, every scout we have seen thus far has been in favor of Eren's plan except for the main cast. I can't see why that would be different to the dead. Most of the military aren't against the alliance. Look at episode 7. From what I remember, the military opposed the Yeagerist and their attempt to overtake the government. They were also angry at the destruction Eren is causing inside the walls. No discussion of how bad Eren's genocide plan took place where the military were against it unless I missed it during my viewing. There's more than just the military, the civilian population themselves are conflicted, as 125/episode 7 have shown. I just skimmed through the episode. I didn't see a single civilian being against the rumbling because of genocide. Or because of the innocent lives being killed outside of the wall. All I have seen is civilians being justifiably upset that Eren's destroyed their house or killed their loved ones. That means there is no indication that they would be against Eren's plan now since the titan's have already gone outside the walls. I mean, to be fair, what can most of them do about it? They don't have the same level of knowledge about it. Oh yeah agreed. I am not expecting a philosophical discussion from the civilians. My complaint is with the "pay respect to the dead" or "the dead would not be so selfish" line of argumentation. From what has been provided so far, Hange can not use those two arguments as a justification to stop Eren. |
Mar 14, 2022 3:12 PM
#42
vileoivm12 said: racers551 said: vileoivm12 said: racers551 said: vileoivm12 said: racers551 said: vileoivm12 said: racers551 said: Full disclosure, I'm a manga reader, but this won't go into any manga spoilers. Hanji established her goals pretty well, she doesn't think anyone in the survey corps would be selfish enough to just leave the people outside the world to be killed, Levi very clearly wants to pay off what he promised Erwin, Armin simply wanted to prevent the genocide of billions, since he never agreed to the full genocide of the world, Connie wants to be the hero his family can be proud of, especially his last living family member, his mother, Jean wants to pay respects to those who died, like Marco, Mikasa wants to stop Eren, and Gabi, Margath, Falco, and Pieck mostly just want their home to be protected. What is lazy about that writing? They're self serving, still, just towards a common goal. It's not that complicated or lazy. It's just simple. They still have conflicts, as Season 4 episode 9 shows, with Jean punching Reiner, reinforcing the idea that even when under a common goal, humanity still fights. None of that is lazy. Honestly, the "pay respect to the dead" is not convincing. Almost everyone is against the alliance. Also, every scout we have seen thus far has been in favor of Eren's plan except for the main cast. I can't see why that would be different to the dead. Most of the military aren't against the alliance. Look at episode 7. From what I remember, the military opposed the Yeagerist and their attempt to overtake the government. They were also angry at the destruction Eren is causing inside the walls. No discussion of how bad Eren's genocide plan took place where the military were against it unless I missed it during my viewing. There's more than just the military, the civilian population themselves are conflicted, as 125/episode 7 have shown. I just skimmed through the episode. I didn't see a single civilian being against the rumbling because of genocide. Or because of the innocent lives being killed outside of the wall. All I have seen is civilians being justifiably upset that Eren's destroyed their house or killed their loved ones. That means there is no indication that they would be against Eren's plan now since the titan's have already gone outside the walls. I mean, to be fair, what can most of them do about it? They don't have the same level of knowledge about it. Oh yeah agreed. I am not expecting a philosophical discussion from the civilians. My complaint is with the "pay respect to the dead" or "the dead would not be so selfish" line of argumentation. From what has been provided so far, Hange can not use those two arguments as a justification to stop Eren. It's her justification. It's also Jean's. Mikasa's is different and so is most of the cast who are for the alliance, and they unify only to stop the rumbling, because it literally will have to have them fight the biggest Genocide in the history of the world of aot. |
Mar 14, 2022 3:13 PM
#43
racers551 said: vileoivm12 said: racers551 said: vileoivm12 said: racers551 said: vileoivm12 said: The motivation is fine for the most part, but the way certain motivations are explained to the viewer were pretty bad. For example, Hange's explanation on why she wants to stop Eren is basically non-existent (Saying genocide is bad is not an argument. You need to explain why it's bad in this situation). ... you need to explain why genocide is a bad thing? Can we agree that Genocide of any kind is stupid? Jean said clearly that Eren, if he wanted purely Paradis to live, then he'd choose another plan. But the fact that he chose the rumbling partially is motivated by him protecting his friends, as Jean said in episode 6. Yes. You need to explain why it's bad considering your going with a plan that opposes the views of almost everyone inside the walls. There are people within these threads that would argue in favor of Eren's plan. Being dismissive of the other side doesn't get you anywhere. Now, let me ask you, why is Eren's plan bad? Just to be clear, I agree with you. I am against it. But if you are able to articulate why, you would have done a better job than Isayama. Articulate it better than Isayama? He already said it multiple times how a bigger enemy existing wouldn't change how people fight each other, through Erwin, Pixis, Eren, Floch, Kiyomi, and so many people. It's not that it just is a huge loss of life, but the fact that either way, it's meaningless, which Isayama mentioned as far long ago as Trost and as soon as episode 10 of season 4 part 2, that genocide is awful. No, they don't need a response to how genocide is awful. No amount of Paradisians feeling righteous will change that there's nothing right about genocide. Ok. Where did Hange say any of this? All she did was claim genocide is bad and the dead would be against (even though we have seen a lot of the military actually being in favor of it. The dead would be no different. Sorry, I was unclear, what I meant is that Isayama did not articulate this idea through Hange's speech on why she opposed Eren's plan. Also, I disagree. I don't think you can convince anyone and bring people to your side by just saying genocide is bad. How else would the world learn and move forward if your unwilling to explain why certain ideas are bad? The dead would be different? It's not as if eldians were given much of an option to the Genocide, or at least it not happening. Erwin, for example, wouldn't have supported a rumbling based on his actions in uprising. Meanwhile, people like Floch are killing anyone who seems to resist, like Onyakopon and Yelena, so any kind of rebellion would be undermined. Some of them would be against it for sure but differently not the majority. So, using that argument did sit not well with me as they are literally doing the opposite of "paying respect to the dead" by going against Eren. |
Mar 14, 2022 3:16 PM
#44
mk_tb said: racers551 said: mk_tb said: racers551 said: mk_tb said: The problem is not them opposing the rumbling the problem is that their motivation for it is whack, some super hero shit, the world fully intends to wipe them out of existence and has done so since decades so them wanting to save the world is nonsense from what we’ve seen so far especially that they are killing their own people in the process and teaming with their biggest enemies, the idea is not what’s lazy but it comes out as lazy because it seems rushed and not fleshed out. Only Connie has that motivation. Hanji and Armin are not Connie. They've been struggling with the morality of their actions since Marley. Connie just had to finish what he started, breaching that morality he sought to keep, in order to fulfill his greater goal, to be that hero to his mother. Well i have to respectfully disagree all of them have that same motive from what i’ve seen even in your og post none of your points make sense jean wants to pay respect for the ones who died, by saving the world??? How exactly does this work,mikasa wants to stop eren, well then why ??? Hange does not thinks the scouts would be so selfish huh?? I’m pretty sure none of the fallen scouts would want to team with the people that killed them and make them friends and help them kill the people of paradise Because neither Marco nor any of those who died would just be fine dying for the rumbling to happen? Mikasa wants to stop Eren because she doesn't want the Genocide of billions? Also, what? Erwin teamed up with anyone who would advance their power/advance to their goals. It's not as if Erwin and Pixis were on the best of terms. In fact, Pixis admitted if Paradis had stepped to the plate, he would have let Erwin be executed. But they teamed up regardless, in order to satisfy their goals. And neither marco nor anyone who died would die so that the people of paradise die i mean are you even listening to yourself and since when does mikasa give a shit about the people and about the world, 2 episodes ago she ripped the scarf out of her dying comrade like a damn android with no emotions and now 2 episodes later she cares so much about the world wow and again your proving my original point that most of them have the same wack motive, to save the world and hopefully die 2 days later when the world attacks a defenseless paradise Since when did Mikasa give a crap? What do you mean? She literally protected Gabi from being killed, she didn't like what Eren was doing to kill all these people regardless, hence why she refused to join the yeagerists. Also, since when is Louise her comrade? She did kind of worship her, and also did steal her stuff. She's not under any obligation to help her, considering that Louise did things she didn't ask for, and had no regrets with that. Not to mention, Louise is alive by the end, and with Armin nuking all of the port, the ships are kind of destroyed. Hence why they only had blimps. |
Mar 14, 2022 3:17 PM
#45
vileoivm12 said: racers551 said: vileoivm12 said: racers551 said: vileoivm12 said: The motivation is fine for the most part, but the way certain motivations are explained to the viewer were pretty bad. For example, Hange's explanation on why she wants to stop Eren is basically non-existent (Saying genocide is bad is not an argument. You need to explain why it's bad in this situation). ... you need to explain why genocide is a bad thing? Can we agree that Genocide of any kind is stupid? Jean said clearly that Eren, if he wanted purely Paradis to live, then he'd choose another plan. But the fact that he chose the rumbling partially is motivated by him protecting his friends, as Jean said in episode 6. Yes. You need to explain why it's bad considering your going with a plan that opposes the views of almost everyone inside the walls. There are people within these threads that would argue in favor of Eren's plan. Being dismissive of the other side doesn't get you anywhere. Now, let me ask you, why is Eren's plan bad? Just to be clear, I agree with you. I am against it. But if you are able to articulate why, you would have done a better job than Isayama. Articulate it better than Isayama? He already said it multiple times how a bigger enemy existing wouldn't change how people fight each other, through Erwin, Pixis, Eren, Floch, Kiyomi, and so many people. It's not that it just is a huge loss of life, but the fact that either way, it's meaningless, which Isayama mentioned as far long ago as Trost and as soon as episode 10 of season 4 part 2, that genocide is awful. No, they don't need a response to how genocide is awful. No amount of Paradisians feeling righteous will change that there's nothing right about genocide. Ok. Where did Hange say any of this? All she did was claim genocide is bad and the dead would be against (even though we have seen a lot of the military actually being in favor of it. The dead would be no different. Sorry, I was unclear, what I meant is that Isayama did not articulate this idea through Hange's speech on why she opposed Eren's plan. Also, I disagree. I don't think you can convince anyone and bring people to your side by just saying genocide is bad. How else would the world learn and move forward if your unwilling to explain why certain ideas are bad? Dude, genocide is wrong. It doesn't have to be explained. Your literally killing of entire races. Thousands if not millions of innocent people, including children. Do you really think it needs to be explained why the murder of millions of Children who don't even understand the concept of morality properly, who don't have an ounce of hatred in there heart because they are too young to understand it,is wrong. Genocide is wrong the way, say r4pe is wrong. It's wrong because it is. Never in a million years will there ever be any circumstances where it has to be explained and justified why it's wrong. People who are opposed to Genocide should never have to justify their aversion to it. Because it's f*cking Genocide. It's one of the worst crimes that can be commited against humanity. I've said this before. You can be in favor of Genocide if you're circumstances are forcing you. Sure. But aversion to genocide is the natural response. |
Mar 14, 2022 3:18 PM
#46
vileoivm12 said: racers551 said: vileoivm12 said: racers551 said: vileoivm12 said: racers551 said: vileoivm12 said: The motivation is fine for the most part, but the way certain motivations are explained to the viewer were pretty bad. For example, Hange's explanation on why she wants to stop Eren is basically non-existent (Saying genocide is bad is not an argument. You need to explain why it's bad in this situation). ... you need to explain why genocide is a bad thing? Can we agree that Genocide of any kind is stupid? Jean said clearly that Eren, if he wanted purely Paradis to live, then he'd choose another plan. But the fact that he chose the rumbling partially is motivated by him protecting his friends, as Jean said in episode 6. Yes. You need to explain why it's bad considering your going with a plan that opposes the views of almost everyone inside the walls. There are people within these threads that would argue in favor of Eren's plan. Being dismissive of the other side doesn't get you anywhere. Now, let me ask you, why is Eren's plan bad? Just to be clear, I agree with you. I am against it. But if you are able to articulate why, you would have done a better job than Isayama. Articulate it better than Isayama? He already said it multiple times how a bigger enemy existing wouldn't change how people fight each other, through Erwin, Pixis, Eren, Floch, Kiyomi, and so many people. It's not that it just is a huge loss of life, but the fact that either way, it's meaningless, which Isayama mentioned as far long ago as Trost and as soon as episode 10 of season 4 part 2, that genocide is awful. No, they don't need a response to how genocide is awful. No amount of Paradisians feeling righteous will change that there's nothing right about genocide. Ok. Where did Hange say any of this? All she did was claim genocide is bad and the dead would be against (even though we have seen a lot of the military actually being in favor of it. The dead would be no different. Sorry, I was unclear, what I meant is that Isayama did not articulate this idea through Hange's speech on why she opposed Eren's plan. Also, I disagree. I don't think you can convince anyone and bring people to your side by just saying genocide is bad. How else would the world learn and move forward if your unwilling to explain why certain ideas are bad? The dead would be different? It's not as if eldians were given much of an option to the Genocide, or at least it not happening. Erwin, for example, wouldn't have supported a rumbling based on his actions in uprising. Meanwhile, people like Floch are killing anyone who seems to resist, like Onyakopon and Yelena, so any kind of rebellion would be undermined. Some of them would be against it for sure but differently not the majority. So, using that argument did sit not well with me as they are literally doing the opposite of "paying respect to the dead" by going against Eren. The Eren that they knew back in season 1-3 part 2 is different from the Eren of the now. Eren did hurt a lot of people, even paradisians. |
Mar 14, 2022 3:22 PM
#47
racers551 said: mk_tb said: racers551 said: mk_tb said: racers551 said: mk_tb said: The problem is not them opposing the rumbling the problem is that their motivation for it is whack, some super hero shit, the world fully intends to wipe them out of existence and has done so since decades so them wanting to save the world is nonsense from what we’ve seen so far especially that they are killing their own people in the process and teaming with their biggest enemies, the idea is not what’s lazy but it comes out as lazy because it seems rushed and not fleshed out. Only Connie has that motivation. Hanji and Armin are not Connie. They've been struggling with the morality of their actions since Marley. Connie just had to finish what he started, breaching that morality he sought to keep, in order to fulfill his greater goal, to be that hero to his mother. Well i have to respectfully disagree all of them have that same motive from what i’ve seen even in your og post none of your points make sense jean wants to pay respect for the ones who died, by saving the world??? How exactly does this work,mikasa wants to stop eren, well then why ??? Hange does not thinks the scouts would be so selfish huh?? I’m pretty sure none of the fallen scouts would want to team with the people that killed them and make them friends and help them kill the people of paradise Because neither Marco nor any of those who died would just be fine dying for the rumbling to happen? Mikasa wants to stop Eren because she doesn't want the Genocide of billions? Also, what? Erwin teamed up with anyone who would advance their power/advance to their goals. It's not as if Erwin and Pixis were on the best of terms. In fact, Pixis admitted if Paradis had stepped to the plate, he would have let Erwin be executed. But they teamed up regardless, in order to satisfy their goals. And neither marco nor anyone who died would die so that the people of paradise die i mean are you even listening to yourself and since when does mikasa give a shit about the people and about the world, 2 episodes ago she ripped the scarf out of her dying comrade like a damn android with no emotions and now 2 episodes later she cares so much about the world wow and again your proving my original point that most of them have the same wack motive, to save the world and hopefully die 2 days later when the world attacks a defenseless paradise Since when did Mikasa give a crap? What do you mean? She literally protected Gabi from being killed, she didn't like what Eren was doing to kill all these people regardless, hence why she refused to join the yeagerists. Also, since when is Louise her comrade? She did kind of worship her, and also did steal her stuff. She's not under any obligation to help her, considering that Louise did things she didn't ask for, and had no regrets with that. Not to mention, Louise is alive by the end, and with Armin nuking all of the port, the ships are kind of destroyed. Hence why they only had blimps. Dude wtf are you on about armin nuking , blimps wtf does this have to do with anything but sure whatever suits your logic |
Mar 14, 2022 3:24 PM
#48
mk_tb said: racers551 said: mk_tb said: racers551 said: mk_tb said: racers551 said: mk_tb said: The problem is not them opposing the rumbling the problem is that their motivation for it is whack, some super hero shit, the world fully intends to wipe them out of existence and has done so since decades so them wanting to save the world is nonsense from what we’ve seen so far especially that they are killing their own people in the process and teaming with their biggest enemies, the idea is not what’s lazy but it comes out as lazy because it seems rushed and not fleshed out. Only Connie has that motivation. Hanji and Armin are not Connie. They've been struggling with the morality of their actions since Marley. Connie just had to finish what he started, breaching that morality he sought to keep, in order to fulfill his greater goal, to be that hero to his mother. Well i have to respectfully disagree all of them have that same motive from what i’ve seen even in your og post none of your points make sense jean wants to pay respect for the ones who died, by saving the world??? How exactly does this work,mikasa wants to stop eren, well then why ??? Hange does not thinks the scouts would be so selfish huh?? I’m pretty sure none of the fallen scouts would want to team with the people that killed them and make them friends and help them kill the people of paradise Because neither Marco nor any of those who died would just be fine dying for the rumbling to happen? Mikasa wants to stop Eren because she doesn't want the Genocide of billions? Also, what? Erwin teamed up with anyone who would advance their power/advance to their goals. It's not as if Erwin and Pixis were on the best of terms. In fact, Pixis admitted if Paradis had stepped to the plate, he would have let Erwin be executed. But they teamed up regardless, in order to satisfy their goals. And neither marco nor anyone who died would die so that the people of paradise die i mean are you even listening to yourself and since when does mikasa give a shit about the people and about the world, 2 episodes ago she ripped the scarf out of her dying comrade like a damn android with no emotions and now 2 episodes later she cares so much about the world wow and again your proving my original point that most of them have the same wack motive, to save the world and hopefully die 2 days later when the world attacks a defenseless paradise Since when did Mikasa give a crap? What do you mean? She literally protected Gabi from being killed, she didn't like what Eren was doing to kill all these people regardless, hence why she refused to join the yeagerists. Also, since when is Louise her comrade? She did kind of worship her, and also did steal her stuff. She's not under any obligation to help her, considering that Louise did things she didn't ask for, and had no regrets with that. Not to mention, Louise is alive by the end, and with Armin nuking all of the port, the ships are kind of destroyed. Hence why they only had blimps. Dude wtf are you on about armin nuking , blimps wtf does this have to do with anything but sure whatever suits your logic I'm talking about Armin nuking all their ships, which delays the attack, and gives them ample opportunity to stop the rest of the world. |
Mar 14, 2022 3:26 PM
#49
Jlavi25 said: Hange is literally someone who showed sympathy to standard Titans. She was actually very sociopathic towards those captured titans. Torturing them, and keeping them alive to perform experiments on them isn't "sympathetic". |
Mar 14, 2022 3:32 PM
#50
racers551 said: mk_tb said: racers551 said: mk_tb said: racers551 said: mk_tb said: racers551 said: mk_tb said: The problem is not them opposing the rumbling the problem is that their motivation for it is whack, some super hero shit, the world fully intends to wipe them out of existence and has done so since decades so them wanting to save the world is nonsense from what we’ve seen so far especially that they are killing their own people in the process and teaming with their biggest enemies, the idea is not what’s lazy but it comes out as lazy because it seems rushed and not fleshed out. Only Connie has that motivation. Hanji and Armin are not Connie. They've been struggling with the morality of their actions since Marley. Connie just had to finish what he started, breaching that morality he sought to keep, in order to fulfill his greater goal, to be that hero to his mother. Well i have to respectfully disagree all of them have that same motive from what i’ve seen even in your og post none of your points make sense jean wants to pay respect for the ones who died, by saving the world??? How exactly does this work,mikasa wants to stop eren, well then why ??? Hange does not thinks the scouts would be so selfish huh?? I’m pretty sure none of the fallen scouts would want to team with the people that killed them and make them friends and help them kill the people of paradise Because neither Marco nor any of those who died would just be fine dying for the rumbling to happen? Mikasa wants to stop Eren because she doesn't want the Genocide of billions? Also, what? Erwin teamed up with anyone who would advance their power/advance to their goals. It's not as if Erwin and Pixis were on the best of terms. In fact, Pixis admitted if Paradis had stepped to the plate, he would have let Erwin be executed. But they teamed up regardless, in order to satisfy their goals. And neither marco nor anyone who died would die so that the people of paradise die i mean are you even listening to yourself and since when does mikasa give a shit about the people and about the world, 2 episodes ago she ripped the scarf out of her dying comrade like a damn android with no emotions and now 2 episodes later she cares so much about the world wow and again your proving my original point that most of them have the same wack motive, to save the world and hopefully die 2 days later when the world attacks a defenseless paradise Since when did Mikasa give a crap? What do you mean? She literally protected Gabi from being killed, she didn't like what Eren was doing to kill all these people regardless, hence why she refused to join the yeagerists. Also, since when is Louise her comrade? She did kind of worship her, and also did steal her stuff. She's not under any obligation to help her, considering that Louise did things she didn't ask for, and had no regrets with that. Not to mention, Louise is alive by the end, and with Armin nuking all of the port, the ships are kind of destroyed. Hence why they only had blimps. Dude wtf are you on about armin nuking , blimps wtf does this have to do with anything but sure whatever suits your logic I'm talking about Armin nuking all their ships, which delays the attack, and gives them ample opportunity to stop the rest of the world. And how are they supposed to stop the rest of the world exactly?? By talking nicely ?? It’s going to be a massacre either way |
More topics from this board
Poll: » Shingeki no Kyojin: The Final Season Part 2 Episode 5 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )anime-prime - Feb 6, 2022 |
474 |
by graciana
»»
Oct 9, 8:08 AM |
|
Poll: » Shingeki no Kyojin: The Final Season Part 2 Episode 12 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )anime-prime - Apr 3, 2022 |
574 |
by mateben
»»
Oct 4, 7:46 AM |
|
Poll: » Shingeki no Kyojin: The Final Season Part 2 Episode 4 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )anime-prime - Jan 30, 2022 |
557 |
by Goxist
»»
Sep 21, 4:36 AM |
|
Poll: » Shingeki no Kyojin: The Final Season Part 2 Episode 9 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )anime-prime - Mar 6, 2022 |
313 |
by Hylianticipated
»»
Sep 3, 10:48 PM |
|
» I think eren did the right thing ( 1 2 )SenseixSenpai - Feb 4, 2022 |
53 |
by MergedZamasu
»»
Aug 28, 12:29 PM |